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Speaker 1: One of the questions I'm always asked is how do

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Speaker 1: I get through this? And it's really tough, and you

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Speaker 1: feel it, it hurts, and then you put your shoulders back,

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Speaker 1: you put your head up, you'll hug your friends and

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Speaker 1: your family, and you just keep going. So as you

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Speaker 1: know that commissioners decide what's gonna happen, and then there's

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Speaker 1: always this plan to send letters and to talk to

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Speaker 1: them and kind of get a feel for where they're going.

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Speaker 1: And last time we did that, we were so helpful.

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Speaker 1: The night before we thought, oh, this is it, so

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Speaker 1: hopeful and it turned out really crappy. So tonight, based

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Speaker 1: on some of the information, we're not so hopeful. So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna let Laurie say that prayer and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: just keep going. Okay, Lisa, can you come over so

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Speaker 1: we can all kind of be close.

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Speaker 2: Dear Heavenly Father, we ask Lord to do only what

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Speaker 2: you can do that you would bring us the outcome

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Speaker 2: that we want. We ask that you would speak with

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Speaker 2: the people on this board who are gonna make this

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Speaker 2: life altering decision for Leo and Chrissy. We ask Lord

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Speaker 2: that you would speak to their hearts, that you would

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Speaker 2: give them that, knowing in the bottom of their soul

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Speaker 2: that they would be doing the right thing by granting

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Speaker 2: him parole. We just ask and pray, and we are

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Speaker 2: begging on our knees that it is the outcome that

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Speaker 2: we so desire. We love you, Lord, we praise you,

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Speaker 2: and we pray this in your son Christ's name. Amen.

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Speaker 3: Amen, do you hear my mind? I have to hide

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Speaker 3: my feelings saw roosetemps sorry lists in this valle te

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Speaker 3: na see ralation o my long water rage, das rash

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Speaker 3: to the one who's holding.

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Speaker 4: The star.

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Speaker 3: To the warm solding stop to the warming sort.

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Speaker 5: This is a special bonus episode of Bone Valley. The

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Speaker 5: day before Leo's parole hearing, Scott Kup and I had

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Speaker 5: one last chance to meet with the commissioners who would

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Speaker 5: decide if Leo was going to be granted parole. Going

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Speaker 5: into these meetings, we had some insight about where the

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Speaker 5: commissioners might stand. The commission's chair, Melinda Kunrod, had been

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Speaker 5: asking Leo's lawyers questions that seemed to indicate she believes

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Speaker 5: in Leo's innocence. The second Commissioner, David Wyant, is a

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Speaker 5: former police officer from Polk County. We heard he'd had

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Speaker 5: a close relationship with the former state Attorney Jerry Hill,

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Speaker 5: and he'd be the commissioner least receptive toward granting Leo parole.

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Speaker 5: That left Commissioner Richard Davison the third vote, the wild card,

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Speaker 5: the one who would probably passed the tie breaking vote

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Speaker 5: in determining Leo's fate. So we came to Tallahassee for

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Speaker 5: a meeting with Davison just twenty four hours before the

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Speaker 5: official ruling would be made at Leo's May third parole hearing.

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Speaker 5: Kelsey was outside waiting for me and Scott when we

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Speaker 5: walked out of.

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Speaker 6: The meeting.

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Speaker 7: The car.

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Speaker 8: No, it's really bad and he's not gonna talk right now.

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Speaker 9: I can't.

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Speaker 8: I'm sorry, fucking disaster.

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Speaker 10: He's been talking to the tenth and went over and

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Speaker 10: he said, I've listened to both sides now and I'm

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Speaker 10: just not convinced he's innocent. And I'm going to vote

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Speaker 10: for twenty four months at Everglades and he says, maybe

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Speaker 10: they'll be an epiphany tomorrow, but that's the way I'm voting.

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Speaker 10: He started talking to me about bloodstains, and it's just

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Speaker 10: fucking very clear that the state is talking to him

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Speaker 10: and giving him all sorts of bullshit about the evidence.

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Speaker 10: He goes, where's the blood. There's no blood. Where's the

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Speaker 10: blood at the canal? I was like, it's fucking there.

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Speaker 10: You want to see the picture. FDL says it in

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Speaker 10: the transcript, that's where her blood is. And he's arguing

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Speaker 10: that shit with me, and I just you know, he said,

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Speaker 10: this is not about guilt or innocence anyway, but he says,

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Speaker 10: I'm a creature of the system, and I have to

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Speaker 10: believe that what the courts have sucided is correct.

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Speaker 8: And the courts are saying he's guilty.

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Speaker 10: And he said, I didn't hear one thing in your

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Speaker 10: podcast that was inaccurate to me. Okay, well, then you

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Speaker 10: know he's innocent. What I just never forget the words

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Speaker 10: he said, I'm a creature of the system the courts

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Speaker 10: have ruled, and he's not willing to acknowledge that there

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Speaker 10: are mistakes made, which you know, he did write the

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Speaker 10: report to give clemency to the Groven Force, so he

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Speaker 10: knows that mistakes are made and just won't do it.

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Speaker 10: And you know, I mean, I'm just imagining that Wyant

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Speaker 10: is in the same boat. We saw Wyant in the hallway,

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Speaker 10: asked him if you would meet with us. He said,

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Speaker 10: I'm busy, I'm busy, give me a call my cellphone

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Speaker 10: and just walked away. Twenty four months.

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Speaker 3: That I everglades twenty four months?

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Speaker 9: Two fucking years?

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Speaker 3: Why two years?

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Speaker 10: Well, the thing he did say, unless I have an epiphany,

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Speaker 10: that's gonna be my vote. And so we just talked

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Speaker 10: about keep an open mind for the epiphany.

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Speaker 8: But I don't know, was the worst meeting I've ever

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Speaker 8: been in my life.

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Speaker 10: We gave Scott a minute to process what had just happened,

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Speaker 10: and then we got in the car with him and left,

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Speaker 10: knowing that we'd be back the next morning for the hearing.

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Speaker 4: Two years.

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Speaker 11: So let's think about that.

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Speaker 12: You don't give a flying fuck whether this man is

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Speaker 12: guilty or innocent.

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Speaker 4: That's what it boils out.

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Speaker 10: He has to respect.

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Speaker 5: Scott knew he owed Leo an update about the meetings.

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Speaker 5: He tried to get Leo on the phone to tell

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Speaker 5: him about what just happened, but he couldn't get through.

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Speaker 5: Scott forwarded me the email he sent him. Hey Davison

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Speaker 5: says he listened to the podcast, but he is still

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Speaker 5: inclined to vote extension to Everglades for the lifers. We

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Speaker 5: may still be able to convince him to straight parole

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Speaker 5: to Noah's and that's what we're working on now and.

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Speaker 8: Going into the evening.

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Speaker 10: We're still at the worst case scenario of transfer to Everglades.

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Speaker 10: Please try to hang in there. We are not finished

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Speaker 10: by any stretch. I will keep sending you emails through

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Speaker 10: the evening as I get more info. I still know

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Speaker 10: God has this. I pray you agree, Scott. After we'd

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Speaker 10: met with the commissioner, as I got a text from

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Speaker 10: Chrissy just said I need to talk and then yea,

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Speaker 10: she knows Leo must have got that thing and knew

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Speaker 10: it and called her. I'm gonna have to just give

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Speaker 10: her some hope.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 13: I just can't.

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Speaker 8: I can't just tell her it's came over because I

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Speaker 8: don't know it's over. I mean, it's not hasn't been

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Speaker 8: voted on yet.

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Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, exactly, because he's ready, she says, I prefer

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Speaker 14: not to record.

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Speaker 8: Okay, let me just turn this off. Then sorry, she

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Speaker 8: never does this, so she's gonna be upset.

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Speaker 10: Okay, here we go, crazy, Hey, where are you right now?

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Speaker 5: Called her, and.

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Speaker 10: She's as upset as I've ever heard her in knowing her.

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Speaker 10: She was just crying and venting. She was frustrated. It's okay,

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Speaker 10: you don't have to apologize for anything. No, you don't apologize, Chrissy.

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Speaker 10: If I know this, I know, it's okay.

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Speaker 3: You can do it to me.

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Speaker 8: It's okay. The stress about this and just knowing that

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Speaker 8: you have another defeat coming, I know, can't even imagine

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Speaker 8: what that's like. It's I don't know, it's a really

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Speaker 8: hard place to be in and to hear somebody just

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Speaker 8: desperate and you know, in tears.

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Speaker 4: It's just.

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Speaker 8: Brutal. And you know, I think there's probably some hope that,

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Speaker 8: like this story is going to change everything, and you

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Speaker 8: know kind of didn't I know exactly.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 8: She's she said, I'm in desperation mode. What else is there?

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Speaker 8: Someone else? We got to try something different.

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Speaker 10: We're all sitting here thinking, just scrambling and trying to

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Speaker 10: do last minute things. And is there is there a

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Speaker 10: magic thing to that was said that that will change

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Speaker 10: their minds? I mean, if you have any ideas about that,

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Speaker 10: I don't know. She said, Well, then we need a miracle.

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Speaker 10: We have to pray for a miracle, and you know, well,

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Speaker 10: that's all well and good, but I'm just thinking there's

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Speaker 10: not gonna be any miracles in that f court building tomorrow.

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Speaker 8: Man, that has gone through the motions tomorrow is gonna suck.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, And just seeing people who are like hopeful and

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Speaker 10: us standing around knowing what's gonna happen should I'm feeling

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Speaker 10: it now. It's just this home court advantage that they have.

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Speaker 10: They have, it's all stacked in their favor and reason logic,

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Speaker 10: the right thing doesn't really matter. Winning matters. I can't

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Speaker 10: distance myself from me like it should be just like, well,

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Speaker 10: this is the story I'm reporting. It's unfortunate for all

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Speaker 10: the people arout like no, we're in it, and I mean,

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Speaker 10: I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 8: That's you know, we're still reporting on everything. But it's

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Speaker 8: just how do you not feel this?

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Speaker 6: Man?

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Speaker 8: I just know what's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 7: I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,

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Speaker 7: Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,

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Speaker 5: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is

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Speaker 5: a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers

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Speaker 5: to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,

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Speaker 5: including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one

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Speaker 5: of those change makers. At the age of twenty three,

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Speaker 5: Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling

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Speaker 5: weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was

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Speaker 5: a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac Snoop Dogg, Pink,

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Speaker 5: and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when

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Speaker 5: he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in

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Speaker 5: federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving

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Speaker 5: thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.

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Speaker 5: Upon his release, he founded The Weldon Project, a nonprofit

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Speaker 5: working to create better outcomes for those still in prison

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Speaker 5: that funds social change and provides financial aid for all

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Speaker 5: those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses.

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Speaker 5: Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with

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Speaker 5: Stand Together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and

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Speaker 5: criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs,

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Speaker 5: listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts. The night before the hearing,

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Speaker 5: we had dinner reservations at a restaurant in Tallahassee with

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Speaker 5: Chrissy Ashley, her two baby boys, and some of their

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Speaker 5: close friends who had made the trek up to Tallahassee

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Speaker 5: to support them. The dinner was supposed to be about hope,

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Speaker 5: final chance to come together and center themselves for the

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Speaker 5: next day, but after the news from the meetings, the

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Speaker 5: mood was somber. Leo's best friend and bandmate, Kevin Herrick

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Speaker 5: his family showed up to be with Chrissy. They've known

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Speaker 5: Leo and Chrissy for decades. Kevin's sister Laurie led everyone

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Speaker 5: in prayer.

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Speaker 2: We ask right now for comfort for Leo. We can't

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Speaker 2: even imagine Lord, what he's going through right now. I

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Speaker 2: pray that you surround him right now, this evening tomorrow

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Speaker 2: morning with people who love him, who can lift him

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Speaker 2: up and bring him comfort. And we ask that you

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Speaker 2: bring him comfort Lord, as we know only you can

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Speaker 2: do in times like this when we feel that you know,

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Speaker 2: everything is out of our control, but we know that

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Speaker 2: everything goes through your hands first. So we are accepting that.

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Speaker 2: We are, as Chrissy said, lifting our heads high, and

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Speaker 2: we are leaving this at the altar.

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Speaker 4: High shudders back.

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Speaker 15: We're okay, We're okay, yes we are, We're good.

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Speaker 3: This is gonna work.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 10: Those are the boys came in Leo's grandsons and just

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Speaker 10: like he know, I wanted to hug from one of

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Speaker 10: those kids. I just wanted to hold those kids. So

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Speaker 10: that was for me. Yeah, you know, I definitely understand

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Speaker 10: why so many people.

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Speaker 8: Are religious in this world because if you have no

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Speaker 8: hope this and you got to believe in something and

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Speaker 8: this is it and it's happening right in front of me, and.

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Speaker 10: Uh, I'm all in.

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Speaker 5: While we sat at dinner with Chrissy, Scott was sending

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Speaker 5: me messages. He was working to pull whatever strings he

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Speaker 5: could to trigger that epiphany. You know, Scott also.

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Speaker 10: Recognized that, you know, we need to rawther kitchen sink

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Speaker 10: at this and pull out all the stops everything, and

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Speaker 10: you know, we agreed.

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Speaker 8: We need Jonathan here.

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Speaker 5: Senator Jonathan Martin had already told us that he thought

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Speaker 5: Leo was innocent and should not only be paroled, he

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Speaker 5: should be exonerated. He's also the chair of the Florida

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Speaker 5: Senate's Committee on Criminal Justice and has oversight of the

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Speaker 5: Florida Commission on a Fender Review. Those three appointed officials

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Speaker 5: who'd be making the decision to grant Leo parole or not.

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Speaker 5: His presence at the hearing might be Leo's last hope.

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Speaker 10: If he could appear, you know, and with him and

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Speaker 10: Scott speaking together about this, I think that if that

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Speaker 10: could happen, that might be the Hail Mary pass. We

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Speaker 10: need something really powerful, something that was kind of like

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Speaker 10: a game changer.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 10: Davidson talked about wanting to have some kind of epiphany,

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Speaker 10: and I said, that's what we need, something so powerful

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Speaker 10: that it's going to change the vote.

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Speaker 5: But this is the last week of the legislative session

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Speaker 5: in Tallahassee, and Senator Martin has to be present to vote,

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Speaker 5: so showing up at a parole hearing might not even

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Speaker 5: be possible.

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Speaker 13: He had said early on, I'll do whatever I can,

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Speaker 13: if I can, if I'm available. So I texted him

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Speaker 13: a couple of times. He wasn't responding to the text.

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Speaker 13: I didn't read anything negative into it. I just was like,

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Speaker 13: he's inundated, and I get it. You know, he's got

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Speaker 13: major responsibilities.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 5: I called him last night.

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Speaker 13: Left a voicemail, and I left a pretty long text

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Speaker 13: was basically help, please help, because I was panicked. And

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Speaker 13: within fifteen minutes of that text, I got a text

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Speaker 13: from Jonathan very short, I'll be there at nine o'clock,

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Speaker 13: and then I had to text back that we're not

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Speaker 13: scheduled till ten, so then start panicking again.

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Speaker 5: The next morning, Scott pulled into the parking lot for

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Speaker 5: the hearing. He didn't know whether or not Senator Martin.

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Speaker 8: Would really be there. He's pulling in.

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Speaker 13: Right next to me.

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Speaker 8: At the same time, he goes, I'm gonna go sit

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Speaker 8: in the front row. See if that helps.

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Speaker 13: You can't miss him. He's like six seven six eight,

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Speaker 13: That's what he did.

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Speaker 5: Senator Martin promised to make an appearance, but with the

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Speaker 5: timing and a schedule. He might not be able to

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Speaker 5: stay until Leo's case was called, but he was promising

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Speaker 5: Scott he'd stay for as long as he could.

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Speaker 16: I was sitting there and like the dread really hit me.

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Speaker 16: I was so aware of my blood pressure, like it

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Speaker 16: was just through the roof.

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Speaker 10: And then the commissioner, the chair announced that we're going

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Speaker 10: to take a short three minute break and we're going

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Speaker 10: to come back and we're going to start with the

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Speaker 10: Schofield case, and we're going to do that one first.

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Speaker 10: And you could tell there was some buzz in the

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Speaker 10: crowd because everybody was there for Leo's case.

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Speaker 5: And it just made me think, all right, three minutes,

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Speaker 5: that's the countdown, Okay.

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Speaker 16: Keep ready. And then when the hearing actually started, seeing

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Speaker 16: all of our familiar faces around, and I don't know,

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Speaker 16: I feel like I was worried about you.

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Speaker 10: I didn't even know what I was supposed to do

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Speaker 10: except sit there and just suffer. And that was that

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Speaker 10: was the hard part, just feeling like, well, I'm just

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Speaker 10: gonna be watching this and I know where it's going.

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Speaker 8: It's just gonna be painful, all right.

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Speaker 15: I'll go ahead and use meaning to order for the

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Speaker 15: full commission is ten am. We're back on the record.

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Speaker 15: If everyone could please take your seat, if you are

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Speaker 15: not going to be speaking.

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Speaker 16: Seeing the commissioners walk in and like you know, making

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Speaker 16: eye contact with them and knowing like that they know

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Speaker 16: what I'm thinking, and like I know what they're thinking,

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Speaker 16: and there's just like that recognition and I don't know

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Speaker 16: that that felt really intense.

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Speaker 10: I felt.

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Speaker 16: I was like, oh, why did we choose to sit

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Speaker 16: in the front row. I feel like very vulnerable and.

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Speaker 8: Exposed right now.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I'm just it's

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Speaker 10: just a totally helpless feeling, like, you know, after all

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Speaker 10: we've done and everything, and it was just like it's

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Speaker 10: really difficult to sit there and like maintain any kind

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Speaker 10: of hope.

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Speaker 3: So we're now in the full portion.

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Speaker 9: Of the dock.

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Speaker 15: People're all three commissioners will be voting. East side gets

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Speaker 15: ten minutes in which to make your presentation. We'll start

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Speaker 15: with the supporters, followed by anyone in opposition the investigators

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Speaker 15: recommending an extension. And this is on the leoscope. Okase

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Speaker 15: I had to number thirty one on page sixteen and

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Speaker 15: made proceed.

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Speaker 10: At that point, I see Scott move towards the podium.

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Speaker 10: I see Jonathan sitting at the front table, and I

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Speaker 10: just remember thinking, they know it's desperation time, they know

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Speaker 10: where things stand, and so they're not going to hold

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Speaker 10: anything back.

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Speaker 8: And I just had that feeling that it was just

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Speaker 8: going to be not your typical parole hearing.

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Speaker 12: Good morning, commissioners.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 12: My name is Scott Cupp. I'm an attorney representing Leo Schofield, obviously,

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Speaker 12: but there's many, many other attorneys. A lot of them

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Speaker 12: are here today, and I would just like to mention them.

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Speaker 4: Briefly.

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Speaker 10: I was facing his back. I couldn't see his eyes,

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Speaker 10: but I was watching the commissioners and there was like

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Speaker 10: this anticipation. I could sort of see it in their

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Speaker 10: eyes through me.

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Speaker 12: The first thing I would like you to hear from

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Speaker 12: is a letter written by Jesse Sam who's Michelle Schofield's brother.

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Speaker 12: It was written for the last parole hearing, which was

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Speaker 12: in twenty twenty. For some reason, and maybe the state

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Speaker 12: will tell us here today, it was not read. I

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Speaker 12: have no idea why it wasn't read. I think it

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Speaker 12: was part of the record, but I want to read

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Speaker 12: it now. Make it part of the record. January two

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Speaker 12: twenty twenty in reference to Leo R. Schofield prole hearing

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Speaker 12: one eight twenty. To whom it may concern, I'm not

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Speaker 12: going to attend the prole hearing of Leo R. Schofield. However,

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Speaker 12: I do ask you to read this letter and take

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Speaker 12: my comments into consideration as you make a decision about

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Speaker 12: granting Leo parole. I was sixteen at the time of

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Speaker 12: my sister's murder. I never knew the details of the case.

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Speaker 12: Because of my age, I had assumed the detectives and

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Speaker 12: the state involved had substantial evidence beyond a shadow of

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Speaker 12: a doubt to convict Leoschofield first degree murder. Over the years,

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Speaker 12: I've done some research and have found many inconsistencies and

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Speaker 12: discrepancies in the investigation and the trial. These have led

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Speaker 12: to many questions about the state's handling of my sister's murder.

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Speaker 12: I'm not one hundred percent convinced Leo is guilty of

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Speaker 12: this crime. In fact, for my research, he could be innocent.

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Speaker 12: It just seems likely you got the wrong guy. I

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Speaker 12: do not have confidence in the conviction of Leo Schofield,

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Speaker 12: and I support his request for parole.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 12: Jesse Song At this time, I would like to have

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Speaker 12: Senator Jonathan Martin speak.

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Speaker 10: And then Jonathan Rose. And you know when he stands

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Speaker 10: up at the podium, it looks like the podium's up

385
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Speaker 10: to his waist and he's just staring at the commissioners intensely.

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Speaker 4: Good morning.

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Speaker 11: My name is Jonathan Martin. I've known Scott Cup for

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Speaker 11: many years. I met him when I was a prosecutor.

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Speaker 11: I've handled Holmes cases. Everything that I've seen about this

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Speaker 11: case turns my stomach. I don't know why Leo Schofield

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Speaker 11: wasn't released years ago when he was before this board.

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Speaker 11: You have the opportunity to release him immediately. He wasn't

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Speaker 11: released last time because he wasn't remorseful. You cannot be

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Speaker 11: remorseful for something you did not do. It's not your

395
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Speaker 11: job to determine guilt or innocence. But if you are

396
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Speaker 11: going to consider whether somebody is remorseful and whether they

397
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Speaker 11: should be released today or should have been released years ago,

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Speaker 11: you have to at least crack the transcript. You have

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Speaker 11: to at least wonder why the fingerprints of a serial

400
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Speaker 11: killer were inside Michelle's car And we're never tested, and

401
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 11: we're never presented to the jury in Polk County over

402
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Speaker 11: thirty years ago. I was five years old when Leos

403
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Speaker 11: Goofield started doing time for this murder. I stand by

404
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 11: the criminal justice system here in the state of Florida.

405
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Speaker 11: We're one of the best on the planet. But there's

406
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Speaker 11: a whole lot of doubt right now about how good

407
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Speaker 11: we are. You guys have the chance today to fix that.

408
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Speaker 11: You have the chance to restore credibility to a system

409
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Speaker 11: that thousands of people.

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Speaker 15: Know.

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Speaker 11: An injustice happened, and it's continuing every single second. The

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Speaker 11: Leoscofield remains behind bars.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 12: Next, I'd like to read a portion of Leo's statement

415
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Speaker 12: in is a pearl packet that you.

416
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Speaker 8: All have, but I just like the highlight of part

417
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Speaker 8: of it.

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Speaker 10: Leo's letter I thought was really beautiful, really powerful.

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Speaker 12: First, I understand the p is not based upon guilt

420
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Speaker 12: or innocence, but solely a function of grace from this commission.

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Speaker 12: Having shared that, I must say he.

422
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Speaker 10: Talked about why he can't show remorse, and he talked

423
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Speaker 10: about the deals he'd been given to get out of

424
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Speaker 10: prison and the fact that he stood on his innocence

425
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Speaker 10: it worked against him.

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Speaker 12: Ask only that you consider the fact that I have

427
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Speaker 12: stood on my innocence in the face of plea agreements

428
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Speaker 12: that would have allowed me to go home many years

429
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Speaker 12: ago without parole or even probation, a fact of the

430
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Speaker 12: record that is known by the state.

431
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Speaker 10: And I do believe that Leo's words made a difference

432
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Speaker 10: in there. If it's submitted to them, maybe they read it,

433
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Speaker 10: maybe they don't. Maybe they think, oh, all these letters

434
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Speaker 10: are the same, and they skim it. But Scott was saying,

435
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Speaker 10: you're not going to skim this. I'm going to tell

436
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Speaker 10: you what he said, and it's important that you know.

437
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Speaker 12: This of innocence he or she does not actually possess

438
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Speaker 12: in hopes of convincing a commission that doesn't weigh guilt

439
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Speaker 12: or innocence to let them go based upon that innocence.

440
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Speaker 12: That simply does not make sense. The only right conclusion

441
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Speaker 12: that can be arrived at with my situation is that

442
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 12: I am forced to maintain my innocence simply because I'm

443
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 12: actually and factually innocent.

444
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 8: Leo Schofield.

445
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 7: Innocent.

446
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 12: Innocent innocence. That's been an elephant in the room for

447
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 12: way too long. It was the elephant in the room

448
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 12: in twenty twelve. It was the elephant in the room

449
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 12: in twenty fifteen. It was the elephant in the room

450
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty. We'll look around. The elephant's gone. Okay,

451
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 12: it's out there. He is innocent. What I'm asking you

452
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 12: to do is to search your heart. This isn't difficult.

453
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 12: I think you all know what's gone on hereveral of

454
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 12: you I believe know he is in fact innocent. One

455
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 12: of the things that disturbed me in our meetings was

456
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 12: the issue that guilt and innocence is not in our purview.

457
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 12: It should always be in our purview. I don't care

458
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 12: find a way to make it part of your purview.

459
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 12: This man does not deserve one more night in prison.

460
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 12: He's been in there for thirty five years. I suspect

461
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 12: you're going to hear from the state from another of

462
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 12: the victims. I do not disparage anything that any of

463
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 12: them might say. I just hope you keep it into perspective.

464
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 12: He's been grieving for thirty five years with the added

465
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 12: thing of giving up his life for something he didn't do.

466
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 12: He grieves every single day for Michelle Schofield. Please, I

467
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 12: implore you do not extend him two years for yet

468
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 12: another program. Send him to the Noah's house and do

469
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 12: it now. Thank you very much.

470
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 15: Thank you everyone for being here. I know some of

471
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 15: you travel great distance, so thank you. I'm not going

472
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 15: to now move to opposition if.

473
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 3: You would like to speak now.

474
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 10: It was the state's turn to make its case. We

475
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 10: weren't sure if someone from the State Attorney's office would

476
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 10: even show up, but they did send a representative, Assistant

477
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 10: State Attorney Jacob Or.

478
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 5: I've written or over the years. He handles the office's

479
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 5: pr but he's not the face we were expecting. He

480
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 5: doesn't have the kind of history or emotional connection to

481
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 5: Leo's case that Jerry Hill and Victoria Avalon have.

482
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 15: You can rest oar six now morning, mister Oregon.

483
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 17: Thank you commissioners again.

484
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 4: My name is Jacob Or.

485
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 17: I'm an assistant state attorney in the tenth Circuit. We

486
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 17: just heard a lot of talk about justice and what

487
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 17: is justice. I became a prosecutor fifteen years ago, and

488
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 17: in that time I have learned that you cannot pursue

489
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 17: justice unless you first pursue truth. In this case, That's

490
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 17: what the court systems have been doing for me many years.

491
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 17: I've told others I think this is the most reviewed

492
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 17: case in the history of Polk County. And I really

493
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 17: don't know if that's true, but I think it might

494
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 17: be because we've looked at this, we've litigated this, and

495
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 17: every time we go to court, we relitigate and we

496
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 17: re review the case based on the actual transcripts and

497
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 17: the actual available evidence, and every one of those reviews

498
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 17: results in the same outcome that there's overwhelming evidence in

499
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 17: support of the guilty verdict that was handed down many

500
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 17: years ago. But that's not really why y'all are here today.

501
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 17: You're here today to decide if this inmate is going

502
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,239
Speaker 17: to get out of jail. And I won't go too

503
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 17: much in detail into the facts of the case because

504
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 17: I know you've heard some of them before, and you

505
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 17: know there was a heinous murder committed. But you got

506
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 17: to compare that with what has been a long time

507
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 17: of being a very good inmate. I'm telling you about truth,

508
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 17: and I think we need to recognize the fact that

509
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 17: he's been a very good inmate. But you know, the

510
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 17: law doesn't allow being a good inmate alone to allow

511
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 17: for release, You've got to do some determination of what

512
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 17: risk is posed to the public and how he will

513
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 17: conduct himself if he gets out, and I know you've

514
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 17: got some guidelines. I'll help you with that, but that's

515
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 17: going to be a challenge for you. I think in

516
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 17: this case, even the victim's family appears to be split

517
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 17: on whether or not he should be out. And I

518
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 17: think you're going to hear from someone in a moment.

519
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 17: And to ask this from me from the State Attorney's

520
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 17: office on behalf of the state of Florida, is that

521
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 17: you'd treat this inmate the same as any other, that

522
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 17: you would do an honest review of the record, apply

523
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 17: your guidelines and then make your decision. And if you'll

524
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 17: do it that way and ignore all the show that's

525
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 17: going on along with it, and just do an honest

526
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 17: review of this record, then I think you'll make a

527
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 17: just decision. I want to yield whatever time I have left.

528
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 10: Two And then they mentioned that at the end of

529
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 10: his presentation, which was pretty short, it was only a

530
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 10: couple of minutes, they mentioned that they had somebody from

531
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 10: the family, and that someone turned out to be Michelle's

532
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 10: other brother, Ricky Som.

533
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 15: Thank you very much, all right? Do we have the

534
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 15: victim online? Mister Som, I don't know if you can

535
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 15: hear me. But you just pressed our six to get through.

536
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: I'm here, Yes, go ahead, Okay. So I'm Ricky Song,

537
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: I'm I guess I'm the brother of bunch of this

538
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 4: sister that was killed, basically, and I just want to

539
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: say that a lot of people have, let's just say,

540
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 4: distorted the truth of this case, and that I was there.

541
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 4: I was a kid. My brother might write in and

542
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: say that he was too young to understand anything. I

543
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: was the older brother. I was not too young to

544
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 4: not understand everything. So there's a lot of miss We'll say,

545
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 4: there's a lot of misinformation from this twenty twenty TV show,

546
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: and a lot of the things that Leo and his

547
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 4: family have said had definitely been not truth. It's their truth,

548
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: and that's okay. But at the end of the day,

549
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: Leo did not come to my house and talk to

550
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 4: my dad that night. Leo did not this, Leo did

551
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: not do a lot of those things because I was there,

552
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 4: I lived it. I know where my sister was. You know,

553
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: some people have asked me, you know, did Leo kill

554
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 4: my sister? And you know, I believe in God, and

555
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: I believe in the courts and the courts got it right.

556
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 4: And at the end of the day, you know, if

557
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: Leo has to sit in prison for forty five years

558
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: or fifty years because he tortured my sister, he mentally

559
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 4: tortured her, he violently tortured her, at the end of

560
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: the day, he should stay in jail for the rest

561
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: of life period, regardless of where this case, what the

562
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: case is pending on right now at this moment. But

563
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: from my point of view is that this isn't very

564
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: emotional to me. It's mostly justice for someone that deserves it,

565
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: and I believe that the court's got a right. I mean,

566
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 4: I'll get off the phone and let you guys finish up.

567
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 4: Sorry for taking every time.

568
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 15: We appreciate you calling in. Thank you for your input.

569
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 15: All right, anyone else in opposition wishing to speak? All right,

570
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 15: hearing NOTTA, we will proceed with the vote, starting with

571
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 15: Commissioner Davison.

572
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 18: Yes, in the matter of Leo Schofield. I've had the

573
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 18: opportunity to review this case, and it's entirety. I listened

574
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 18: very closely to the testimony, both in support and opposition.

575
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 16: I've had a.

576
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 18: Series of meetings prior to today. I've listened to certain

577
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 18: documentary items that have been put together on behalf of Mississcofield.

578
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 18: I've reviewed documents.

579
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: That are.

580
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 5: Commissioner Davison was the first to announce his decision. He

581
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 5: recommended that Leo Bi transferred to Everglade's Correctional to participate

582
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 5: in the lifer's program for twenty four months two years

583
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 5: at another prison before he'd be eligible for parole again.

584
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 18: Is to agree with the commission Investigator. I have a

585
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 18: twenty four month extension based upon good cause and exceptional

586
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 18: circumstance to allow the offender to complete programs that contain

587
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 18: self betterment and transitional components. I would set a new

588
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 18: ppr D at June twenty four five, and.

589
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 10: So they would reestablish his parole for two years. And

590
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 10: it's exactly what he told us at our meeting, and

591
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 10: after listening to all that, it was pretty clear he

592
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 10: just had not changed his opinion.

593
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 16: At all, hearing that nothing that had been said before

594
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 16: him had changed his mind. I mean, I thought it

595
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 16: was done right then and there.

596
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 19: Thank you, Commissioner Wyatt, thank you ma'am, thank you all

597
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,479
Speaker 19: for your testimony here today. And to echo the words

598
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 19: of Commissioner Davis and I to have reviewed this case

599
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 19: in its entirety and had several meetings regarding the case

600
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 19: of mister Schofield.

601
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 10: Commissioner Wyant went next, and then he was recommending eighteen months,

602
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 10: so he brought it down from two years to a

603
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 10: year and a half.

604
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 19: I also note that mister Schofield has had a clean

605
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 19: record as it relates to dr for many years and

606
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 19: has accomplished some things while in prison. My concern is

607
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 19: to make sure he is ready to go if given

608
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 19: the opportunity, so I believe that he also needs some

609
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 19: further program participation. I agree with the FIUCTP program referral.

610
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 19: I have an eighteen month extension rather than twenty four

611
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 19: based on the good cause and exceptional circumstances, and that

612
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 19: being the participation.

613
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 10: And then the Chair Commissioner kuon Rod. She went next,

614
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 10: but by this point it was kind of over, but

615
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 10: at least there was the It went from twenty four

616
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 10: months to eighteen months. That was something different. And then

617
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 10: Commissioner kuon Ron and her response and decision was really nuanced.

618
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 15: I'd like to say that our role is not to

619
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 15: determine guilt or innocence. I know that's the subject of

620
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 15: a lot of people right now. I reviewed all the records,

621
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 15: and I can tell you that I think the State

622
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 15: Attorney's Office with the tenth Judicial Circuit has done their job.

623
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 15: They reviewed the evidence and they made the call based

624
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 15: on the evidence that they received. The fact is that

625
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 15: mister Schofield has been tried by a jury of his tears,

626
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 15: and his conviction has been upheld by numerous courts, and

627
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 15: that's what we as commissioners are facing, and we have

628
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 15: to respect what has been done in the court system. However,

629
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 15: our job is to look at a person's overall record

630
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 15: and determine whether or not they are suitable for parole,

631
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 15: whether they pose a risk to society, and whether or

632
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 15: not they have a good transitional program so that they

633
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 15: can be successful. My vote is to parole.

634
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 5: Commissioner koon Rod votes for parole. She supports Scott Cupp's

635
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 5: request for Leo's immediate release to a halfway house, but.

636
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 15: The two commissioners have agreed to extend. I would to

637
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 15: avoid a three way split. I would move to Commissioner

638
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 15: Wyant's eighteen month extension, and I would ask if either

639
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 15: commissioner would consider a one year next interview.

640
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 19: Days I'm sure it and look, in this case, if

641
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 19: you feel comfortable, I would acquiesk to a twelve month

642
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 19: extension rather than eighteen. I just like I said, he's

643
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 19: been in a long time and he's going to need

644
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 19: program aiming to be successful. I understand and support as overwhelming,

645
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 19: and that's important in my decision. But I believe he

646
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 19: does need some time in the CTPFIU program to prepare him.

647
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 19: So if you're willing to actu as, I would move

648
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 19: down to one year in the program with an effect

649
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 19: of March twenty.

650
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 10: Four, and very quickly right away, Commissioner Wyant said, I

651
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 10: accept that, and so it went to twelve months.

652
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 15: I will move to that position, and I agree with

653
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 15: the referral to the CTP program. And I also just

654
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 15: want to make one more comment. I've spoken with a

655
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 15: lot of people in this case, including Jerry Hill, and

656
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 15: I have to say I've known him for a long time.

657
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 15: He's an honorable man. He is a man of great integrity,

658
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 15: and he represents the ten Circuit well and I respect

659
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 15: his opinion. I value his opinion. I spoke to him

660
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 15: about this case before I came to my decision, and

661
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 15: I spoke with the current state attorney. I think everybody's

662
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 15: doing their job, and I just wanted to put that

663
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 15: on the record. So our final decision is to move

664
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 15: mister Schofield's case to June twenty four, twenty twenty four,

665
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 15: with a next interview date of March twenty four, and

666
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 15: referral to the ctp FIU program at Everglade's ci And

667
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 15: thank you everyone for taking your time to be here.

668
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 15: We appreciate it.

669
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 16: I I just needed to step outside for a number two.

670
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 5: After the decision, Chrissy, Ashley, Scott Copp, Senator Martin, everyone

671
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 5: who showed up to support Leo, we all left the hearing.

672
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 8: Room and walked outside.

673
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 5: Chrissy and Ashley were crying and being comforted by friends

674
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 5: and family. There was anger and frustration and concerns about

675
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 5: how Leo would take the news.

676
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 9: You can't trust that.

677
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 8: How do you think your dad's gonna respond to the news? O.

678
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 9: This is not gonna be good. This is not gonna

679
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 9: be a good thing.

680
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 5: When we went outside, we also talked to some parolees.

681
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 5: They'd shown up to support some of the other people

682
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 5: who were up for parole that day, but after Leo's decision,

683
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 5: they saw that people were upset, and they came over

684
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 5: to talk to us. If you got that was your decision,

685
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 5: and you got twelve months.

686
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 20: If I got this decision, I'll be stat I have

687
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 20: guys that friends that have been out fifty years or

688
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 20: forty seven years. Anybody will pay you when the life

689
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 20: scense is getting that program. You can't get no better.

690
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 20: My name is Gregory bullet Ard.

691
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 4: Appreciate it, blessed?

692
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: Did we send to that program?

693
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 5: There was no immediate consensus about what had happened in

694
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 5: that hearing room and what it meant and how to

695
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 5: feel about it. It wasn't the scenario Leo's friends and

696
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 5: family had been hoping for, but it wasn't the worst

697
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 5: case scenario either. Everyone seemed to be moving through waves

698
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 5: of varying emotions.

699
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 10: But I didn't know, I did.

700
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 8: I didn't know Johnathan was gonna I'm glad he did.

701
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 12: But Jonathan was going to come and speak like that.

702
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 4: He was great.

703
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 12: Didn't take that. Oh that was tremendous.

704
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 6: So yeah, let me ask you to answer your question.

705
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 1: I think I was outraged. And then when she said

706
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: what she said, and I'm like.

707
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 12: I thought she was going to backpeddle there for a minute.

708
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna I was like, what the heck's happening?

709
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: And then when he went down, my whole, my whole

710
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: thought just shifted.

711
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 6: I think, I'm not trying to put I'm not trying

712
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 6: to put like a good spin on it and make

713
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 6: everyone feel better. But they conceded that he's been a

714
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 6: great it made it's the first time they've done that.

715
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 6: They didn't talk about the facts of the case. It Oh,

716
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 6: it was the first time they've done that. So I

717
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 6: think it's a lot of important steps in the right

718
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 6: direction to put him on the Clyde path if everything

719
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 6: goes well.

720
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 5: To It was also, in many ways, a reunion of sorts.

721
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 5: All these people who'd worked on Leo's case through its

722
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 5: various stages across three and a half decades were standing

723
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 5: together sharing the moment. Don Morris, Richard Bartman, Pat McKenna,

724
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 5: Seth Miller. Familiar faces were everywhere. Some were reconnecting for

725
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 5: the first time in years.

726
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 6: You know, like it's like you're talking the team back

727
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 6: together again. You always had crazy.

728
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 4: Getting crazier.

729
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: I like it.

730
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 6: I like, the last time we're altogether in front of Judge.

731
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 21: Yeah, the last time thirteen years ago something like that

732
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 21: ten or nine.

733
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 5: And among the familiar faces, there were new faces too.

734
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 14: Talking to Gilbert just.

735
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 16: A listener and support our Yeah, it's.

736
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: I feel like it's better than nothing.

737
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 5: Everyone seemed to gather around the attorneys who knew Leo's

738
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 5: case best and who knew how to put what just

739
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 5: happened into context.

740
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 21: I mean, he never got anything before today. They never

741
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 21: they had their footspin on the guests for thirty five years.

742
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 21: So the idea that somebody would come in and not

743
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 21: just flash autopsy pictures, which is what they've been doing

744
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 21: for all these reviews, and that kind of argument is

745
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 21: a testament to what you and Kelsey did. It's a

746
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 21: testament to what Scott has done all these years. It's

747
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 21: a testament to what Seth did, all the people that

748
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 21: have worked on the case. But I mean you and

749
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 21: got us to this point. That brought the kind of attention,

750
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 21: that got their attention, that got the whole world's attention,

751
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 21: that brought pressure to bear, and now he's got a

752
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 21: shot at release, which he never had before. I mean

753
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 21: he's never had anything to look forward to.

754
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 4: Nothing.

755
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 21: I mean they've slammed doors in his face. The courts

756
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 21: have done it, the parole boards have done it, like

757
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 21: Seth saying, this is the first time anybody did anything

758
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 21: other than this say screw you, which is thirty five years.

759
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 21: What's what we've been hearing so well, it's not what

760
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 21: everybody wants, and it's not what should have been done,

761
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 21: and it's not ultimately justice, it's.

762
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 4: It's it's a.

763
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 21: Step he's never received before. And from what's set saying it,

764
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 21: you know, it looks pretty good where he's going, the

765
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 21: program he's going. You know, maybe next year we're in

766
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 21: a place we want to be.

767
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 5: Over the course of an hour or so, the collective

768
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,959
Speaker 5: mood was beginning to shift. Leo's grandsons were running around

769
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 5: barefoot in the grass. Heels were kicked off and ties removed.

770
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: So I can't tell you if I'm excited or not.

771
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 15: You know, by I'm excited about this is one of

772
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 15: the next stepping stones from getting out.

773
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: But we're not going to stop here.

774
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 16: We're hoping to push for exoneration for sure.

775
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 5: So slowly the reasons for hope and gratitude began to

776
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 5: accumulate their Senator Jonathan Martin, who used his authority as

777
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 5: an elected representative to speak about injustice and innocence. His

778
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 5: speech was a departure from the usual statements heard in

779
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 5: parole hearings. The state's approach was different this time. There

780
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 5: was no pounding on the podium, no autopsy photos, no

781
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 5: comments about Leo's lack of remorse. Instead, Jacob Orr pointed

782
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 5: to court rulings and procedures. He even referred to the

783
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 5: heinous murder of Michelle Schofield without saying exactly who was

784
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 5: responsible for the crime, and he acknowledged Leo's outstanding record

785
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 5: of his time in prison. One of the commissioners actually

786
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 5: voted for parole. Commissioner Kunrod was prepared to send Leo

787
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 5: directly to a halfway house, something that we've been told

788
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 5: never happens. And Commissioner Wyant, the former Polk County cop

789
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 5: we'd completely written off. He could have easily agreed to

790
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 5: Davison's twenty four month recommendation, but by deciding on eighteen

791
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 5: months instead, he opened the conversation to compromise, and he

792
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 5: agreed to reducing the recommendation to twelve months, and really

793
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 5: it might not even be twelve full months. Leo's parole

794
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 5: process will begin again in March of twenty twenty four.

795
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: It was outrage and then disappointment, and then confusion and

796
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: then release.

797
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 4: Take a picture ish.

798
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 10: Yeah, so okay, but then some of the other well,

799
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 10: technically this was a denial of parole. There were signs

800
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 10: if you look closely, something has changed. We all began

801
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 10: to recognize it. Leo won't be released tomorrow. But for

802
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 10: the first time, the very first time, there's an end insight.

803
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm.

804
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: It's like weird because I'm like happy, but I'm not happy,

805
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm happy. It could have been much worse.

806
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: It could have been much worse.

807
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: While we were all standing out there, Chrissy was able

808
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 5: to get on the phone with She asked for privacy

809
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 5: and stepped away to deliver the news.

810
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to be the first one to tell him,

811
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: and long story short, I was able to talk to him.

812
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: I told him what happened, and uh, he said, it's

813
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: nothing but a meatball. We're gonna put gas in the motorcycle,

814
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: keep it running. We got this, and then we got this. Yeah,

815
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 1: nothing about a meatball.

816
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 16: We got this.

817
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work, a lot of a lot

818
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: of things at the eleventh hour, right, I think all

819
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: those prayers worked.

820
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just have to keep gassing the motorcycle.

821
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 6: Right.

822
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Yes, this is not what we wanted, but this is

823
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: what we have, and this is what we're gonna do. Right. Shoulders,

824
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: shoulders back, head, Hi, We're gonna do it. Rita, rita, Lourie.

825
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 9: I spoke to Leo.

826
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: He's cool, he's good, he's good, he said, you'll love this, Lourie,

827
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: he said nothing. I'm better meet while. Just keep gassing

828
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: that motorcycle.

829
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, baby, bring it on.

830
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 5: After the hearing, Kelsey and I returned to our Tallahassee

831
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 5: airbnb along with our producers Karra and Britt to get

832
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 5: started on this episode. We worked through the afternoon and

833
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 5: evening and into the night, never straying too far from

834
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 5: the phone. We were anticipating a call from Leo, but

835
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 5: it wasn't until the next morning when he was able

836
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 5: to call. I just have a quick question for you,

837
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 5: because we talked to Chrissy right after she talked to you,

838
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 5: and she was smiling and beaming, and she said, Leo

839
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 5: said this is a meatball, and we didn't quite understand that.

840
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 18: What does that mean?

841
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 4: A meatball?

842
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 22: Yeah, that's my little sarcastic way of saying this is

843
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 22: we can handle this. We've we've been up against much,

844
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 22: much bigger giants, and this is not I really wanted

845
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 22: her rather than her see this as a hurdle. You

846
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 22: know it will become The Paro Commission has really changed

847
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 22: that part of the narrative.

848
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 4: For me.

849
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 22: It's no longer a hurdle. This is I think the

850
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 22: message they were sending to us is that we care

851
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 22: and we want you to succeed, and this is the

852
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 22: way we think that you succeed best. And so I

853
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 22: told Chrissy, I said, an all a hard thing we've

854
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 22: had to do in the thirty five years we've been

855
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 22: in here. This is a meatball.

856
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 4: We got this.

857
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 22: It's no problem at all. We're going to be able

858
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 22: to do this. She was obviously a little emotional, a

859
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 22: lot emotional. It was hard for me to read her

860
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 22: voice right away. You know, I'm pretty good at being

861
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 22: able to detect in her voice whether something is good

862
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 22: or bad, and you know, she was so emotional yesterday

863
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 22: that I wasn't really sure if it was good or bad.

864
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 22: But she said to me, I'm wanting to listen to

865
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 22: the end, and that's always a warning that there's going

866
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 22: to be something in between now in the end that

867
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 22: I might not like. But I needed to get to

868
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 22: the end before I could really weigh it, so I did.

869
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 22: I just remained quiet, and she kind of broke it

870
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 22: down to me, step by step everything that happened, and

871
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 22: basically told me that, you know, we were going to

872
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 22: end up going Eviglades instead of the halfway house. My

873
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 22: first inclination. Because she was so emotional and I could

874
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 22: hear the kids in the background, I knew that no

875
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 22: matter what I was feeling at the time, I just

876
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 22: I had to make sure that everybody there was all right.

877
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 22: I had to make sure my wife was all right.

878
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 22: And so I wanted her to know that I'm okay,

879
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 22: and I want everybody to know that I'm okay. When

880
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 22: when when mister Orr was given an opportunity to speak,

881
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 22: you know, for the state, there wasn't any more of

882
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 22: this lambastic assassination of my character. Accusations that were you know,

883
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 22: flown around in previous hearings and and basically you know,

884
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 22: telling the commission, we want you to treat them as

885
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 22: you would any other inmate and stuff. I can live

886
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 22: with that, and I can appreciate that, you know, because

887
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 22: I cannot tell you what damage it does to my

888
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 22: heart to hear that stuff and even known it's not true,

889
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 22: even though and the people who are on my you know,

890
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 22: support system, know that it's not true, just for them

891
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 22: having to suffer through that and hear that, the embarrassment

892
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 22: of it, it's almost too much to take in. And

893
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 22: I was so nervous about that part of it. I

894
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 22: was just terribly fearful of what, you know, maybe Gerry

895
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 22: Hill's going to do avalon whoever else they signed up there,

896
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 22: and I just did not want to hear that, and

897
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 22: I didn't want anybody else to have to hear that,

898
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 22: because it's devastating. And you know, that not happening yesterday

899
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 22: to me personally, was liberating in and of itself. It

900
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 22: was kind of like a signal saying, you know what

901
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 22: we're going to We're going to give them an opportunity

902
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 22: to get home. And then the musing of the commission itself,

903
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 22: you know, where they start off with twenty four months

904
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 22: and end up at twelve with the comeback, and you know,

905
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 22: essentially nine nine months is not that far. Two years

906
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 22: would have been too long. I think we came away

907
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 22: from that just about as well as we could have

908
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 22: had hoped, you know, aside from not wanting aside from

909
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,439
Speaker 22: wanting to go to the halfway house, and that would

910
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 22: have been great. This is a really really positive thing.

911
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 4: You know.

912
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 22: I've got a lot of people who've wrote to me

913
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 22: over the the last twenty four hours, and a lot

914
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 22: of them are angry. A lot of them are expressing sorrow,

915
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 22: and you know, I totally appreciate that, but I want

916
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 22: them to see the good in it. If it was

917
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 22: not for the support, if it was not for the

918
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 22: work of the podcast that you have done, Kelsey has done,

919
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 22: you know, Team Leo, you know, we wouldn't be here.

920
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 22: And this was a very big victory for me. And

921
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 22: I want them to be able to see the sense

922
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 22: of accomplishment that we've all been able to, you know,

923
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 22: put together by believing in the truth, standing for the truth,

924
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 22: praying for the truth, and coming together and convincing people

925
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 22: of that same truth. We've been walking in a tunnel

926
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 22: in utter darkness for thirty five years and well, I

927
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 22: mean not being able to see two feet in front

928
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 22: of ours face, just putting one foot in front of

929
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 22: the other, going forward, hopefully we're going forward, not really knowing,

930
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 22: just believing and trusting. We have never had a light

931
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 22: at the end of this tunnel. Ever, yesterday a big,

932
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 22: bright light was lit. We can see it. It's at

933
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 22: the end of nine months and it's solid and now

934
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 22: without you know, the real opposition from the state and

935
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 22: me being able to go to this program in nine months,

936
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 22: you know, there's no reason why we won't be paroled.

937
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 22: And so that's a very positive thing. And nine months

938
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 22: is going to go by really really fast, especially for me.

939
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 22: This is really more for the pro commissioners. They are

940
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 22: rightly wanting to be comfortable about their decision, and it's

941
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 22: my job to go down there and make sure they

942
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 22: know it's going to be okay. We're all going to

943
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 22: be okay when this is over with. So, you know,

944
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 22: nine months at an institution that's an incentivized camp number one,

945
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 22: so they have no troublemakers there at all. You get

946
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 22: in any trouble at every grade, you're on the next

947
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 22: bus leaving. So you're going to be surrounded by men

948
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 22: who would all, like mind, are trying to do the

949
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 22: same thing. They're all trying to get out of prison.

950
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 22: And here's another caveat to this that I just realized

951
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 22: this is very important. Going through that program allows me

952
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 22: immediate access back into the prisons for other inmates, because

953
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 22: that's part of their program. Part of the FIU program

954
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 22: is to give back to the prison population. That is

955
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 22: exactly what I would want to do if the only

956
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 22: way that could happen with me being convicted felon on

957
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 22: the other side with parole, the only way to get

958
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 22: back in to help my brothers in here is to

959
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 22: go through that program. I gladly go through nine months

960
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 22: of that. So, you know, going down there for nine

961
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 22: months and being able to do this program and getting

962
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 22: the ability to come back and help others that are

963
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 22: on the same path, that's very very important to me.

964
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 22: I'm really feeling good and and I'm very very gratified

965
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 22: by yesterday's results, and I want that to be conveyed

966
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 22: to the many supporters that we have so they can

967
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 22: feel good about it as well. Here's my fear that

968
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 22: you know, my story fades into the history books now

969
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 22: you know, the next new thing comes up, and you know,

970
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 22: I begin fading away. I can do the nine months.

971
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 22: What I'm asking from the supporters that I've got is

972
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 22: that it just helped me get there, you know, when

973
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 22: this journey hasn't ended yet. I got to get to

974
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 22: March of next year. I got to do it at

975
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 22: a prison where I've never been, you know, with people

976
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 22: that I don't know. I don't know anymore. And I

977
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 22: still want to fight for exoneration. I still want to

978
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 22: fight from my freedom because I am innocent being parolled.

979
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 22: It's just a means to an end. It's not the

980
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 22: end if it was not for you and the podcast

981
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 22: and all the people have put that together and the

982
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 22: millions of people that have supported it. You know, you

983
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 22: became my watchdog, and you know, and that's tremendous. Jacob Orr,

984
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 22: Brian Hass. These people weren't here when this story was

985
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 22: created back long ago. I'm talking about nineteen eighty nine,

986
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 22: and you know, in the trial and all of that stuff,

987
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 22: they weren't involved in that. So I like to think

988
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 22: that maybe maybe the podcast, maybe the exposure to this

989
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 22: stuff gave them reason to maybe go back and look

990
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 22: at it themselves. I'd like to think that they have

991
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 22: heart and you know, and give them some credit for it,

992
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 22: because I think I told you this before. I want

993
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 22: to make this to where everybody can come out feeling

994
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 22: all right about who they are, you know, even Jeremy,

995
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 22: and especially Jeremy, because at the end of the day,

996
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 22: nothing we do or say is going to bring my

997
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 22: life back. And and and in her memory, I really

998
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 22: want everybody to be all right with where we are

999
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 22: and where we go from here. And and so I

1000
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 22: want everybody, including the state, to be able to walk

1001
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 22: away from this and be okay, be okay with their

1002
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 22: part in it and knowing that there are better human

1003
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 22: beings for it. And that's my hope. And it might

1004
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 22: be naive to think that way. I think that's possible now.

1005
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 22: It was impossible before Bong Valley. And that's just how

1006
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 22: profound this podcast has been. And I can't even begin

1007
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 22: to tell you how grateful I am to you, to

1008
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 22: Kelsey somehow, she has a connection in my heart and

1009
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 22: I can't even talk to that girl without breaking down crying.

1010
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 22: But from the beginning, from the very beginning, the first

1011
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 22: time we met, I just could see it in her

1012
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 22: eyes as she connected to this in a real heartfelt way.

1013
00:59:55,320 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 22: And this meant everything to me. And so you know,

1014
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 22: here we are. It's four years and changed later, and

1015
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 22: I'm now nine months away from getting home, and to me,

1016
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 22: that's just amazing. I can't thank you enough for that.

1017
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 22: I want to make sure you thank.

1018
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 4: Her for it.

1019
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 16: Oh my gosh.

1020
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 9: I like, I know you can hear it in my voice.

1021
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 9: I cannot compose myself. I'm just sitting here like listening

1022
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 9: to you and just crying. I mean, you know way

1023
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 9: better than anyone that this has been a roller coaster

1024
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 9: these past couple of days, and there's just been so

1025
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 9: many emotions. I know it's a whole process and we're

1026
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 9: all gonna have to process this, and you especially, but

1027
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 9: I really, like, you know, woke up feeling really really

1028
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 9: good about this today, and like I'm really excited for you,

1029
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 9: Like I feel like, I mean, I'm excited you know

1030
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 9: that you're going to be going to this program, and

1031
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 9: I'm also really excited for like all of the people

1032
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 9: gonna meet there that are gonna have the opportunity to

1033
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 9: meet you and spend time with you. And I know,

1034
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 9: like a big part of this program is like the

1035
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 9: FIU students, and I'm thinking about that as like, you know,

1036
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 9: young people I identify with that, and like how much

1037
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 9: working on your story and hearing from you and knowing

1038
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 9: you has changed my life. And there's gonna be like

1039
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 9: this whole new you know, group of kids who are

1040
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 9: gonna now get that chance to like really get to

1041
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 9: know you, and you're gonna change their lives. And I'm

1042
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 9: that I'm so excited for that. I don't know, I'm

1043
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 9: a mess. I'm like, I'm snotty over here, but like

1044
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 9: I just it's just it's just meant so much to me,

1045
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 9: and I just, you know, I I think like nine

1046
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 9: months is, yeah, that time's gonna go by fast, and

1047
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 9: you're gonna hopefully, you know, be able to connect with

1048
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 9: a bunch of new people. And then nine months from now,

1049
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 9: Team Leo is gonna be like even bigger and more robust,

1050
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 9: and you know, we are all going to be there

1051
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 9: for you when you know, you get out for real.

1052
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 9: And I'm excited for that.

1053
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 22: Well, if you guys are willing to do this nine

1054
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 22: months with me, I'm willing to go down there and

1055
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 22: oh my gosh, absolutely.

1056
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 10: We're not going anywhere.

1057
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 8: And I just want I just wanted you to know that,

1058
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 8: and you know, we think about you all the time

1059
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 8: and so great to hear your voice and hear you

1060
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 8: feeling optimistic.

1061
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 22: Thank you, Thank you both. I love you guys, and

1062
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 22: we'll talk again soon, right, yeah, absolutely you guys rest

1063
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 22: before you come home.

1064
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love you.

1065
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 22: You are beautiful. Thank you so much for all you've done.

1066
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 22: You guys are the masters. Will love you, Gilbert, take care, buddy,

1067
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 22: Love you too, to

1068
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 8: Bye bye