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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Ukraine and European leaders are urging

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Speaker 1: Trump not to strike a piece deal in Alaska. Without them,

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Speaker 1: we have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: great New Republic editor in chief Mike Tamaski stops by

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Speaker 1: to talk about what a perilous position we find ourselves in.

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Speaker 1: Then we will talk to former Trump administration official Miles

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Speaker 1: Taylor about what is making Trump tick during this second

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Speaker 1: term and his takeover of the District of Columbia. But

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Speaker 1: first the news Somali.

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Speaker 2: Something that I have observed and I always like when

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Speaker 2: data backs up the things that I pretty much assume

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Speaker 2: to be true no matter what, because it makes me

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Speaker 2: feel real smart, which is that spending is climbing among

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Speaker 2: the rich as everyone else's debt is rising and their

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Speaker 2: spending is lowering.

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Speaker 1: It's important to remember that the CBO said of the

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Speaker 1: BBB that it would hurt the people in the lowest

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Speaker 1: twenty percent the most, it would help the people in

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Speaker 1: the highest ten percent the most. So you make sense, right,

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Speaker 1: The people who have the least are going to be

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Speaker 1: hurt the most by this and reduction in hospitals. We're

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Speaker 1: going to see Medicare insurance premiums are going to go up.

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Speaker 1: Plus we have these tariffs. You know, the Yale Budget

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Speaker 1: Lab estimates that the tariffs will be twenty four one

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year extra for American families. That is inflationary.

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Speaker 1: It just seems very clear. Now. The good news is

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has fired all of the statisticians. So even

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Speaker 1: though people are not spending money, and the rich people

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Speaker 1: are spending in a way that does not actually support

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Speaker 1: the rest of us, the good news is we won't

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Speaker 1: know because all of the statisticians will be either fired

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Speaker 1: or attacked by Donald Trump. I'm thinking about the Goldman

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Speaker 1: Sachs analysis. They talked about how tariffs are actually being

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Speaker 1: paid for by the consumers and not the companies. I

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Speaker 1: know who Donald Trump then attacked is how dare you

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Speaker 1: say that the tariffs that are And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I think this is a great moment to remember that

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Speaker 1: this is basically the same as a flat tax, right,

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Speaker 1: It's a big sales tax that people who have less

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Speaker 1: it will mean it will be more of their incomes.

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Speaker 2: Every time I hear about this, and I think about this.

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Speaker 3: I just hear that.

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Speaker 2: Time he yelled, we have to slow it down about

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Speaker 2: testing COVID because it's the same energy.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point. Yeah, if you don't test,

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Speaker 1: you won't know. If you don't I mean, it's like

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Speaker 1: with the climate change stuff, right, if you shoot the

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Speaker 1: satellites or I don't know what they take the satellites down,

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Speaker 1: you won't know about the climate change. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you don't fund Noah, you won't know about the bad weather.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is really really, really stupid. And the

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Speaker 1: medical research. I mean, we're just literally in the dumbest,

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Speaker 1: I think, dumbest possible timeline.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Speaking of the Appeals Court has let the White

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Speaker 2: House to spend or end billions in farn eate, which,

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Speaker 2: for those who are not versed and with this is

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Speaker 2: shorthand for a whole lot of death.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's two important points to the foreign

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Speaker 1: aid question. One is, morally, it's a reprehensible, right. These

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Speaker 1: are these kind of investments that are pretty small in

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Speaker 1: the grand scheme of spending, you know, not as much

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Speaker 1: as blowing up the moon or something that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration might be interested in doing or money to elon

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Speaker 1: for whatever. These are really, you know, pretty small investments,

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Speaker 1: and there's two reasons why we do them, right. One

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Speaker 1: is because it's morally correct, But the other reason is

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Speaker 1: because people hate us. Right as a country, we are hated,

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Speaker 1: and one of the reasons we're hated is because we've

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Speaker 1: tried to, you know, bring democracy the world and they

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Speaker 1: haven't loved us for it. So one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why we do this is big return on investment. You

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Speaker 1: stop a pandemic in sub Saharan Africa, you a protect yourself,

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Speaker 1: you be saved some people, and you see you prevent

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Speaker 1: a group of terrorists from emerging from there too. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot of reasons why America got involved

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Speaker 1: in soft power, and none of it was because they're

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Speaker 1: good people. It was mainly because of the ROI. So

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Speaker 1: now Trump has been like, yeah, that's a waste, right,

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Speaker 1: four billion dollars on global health. By the way, four

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Speaker 1: billion dollars on global health. We spend that on like

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Speaker 1: whatever we spend. You know, Trump is going to spend

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Speaker 1: that on like four planes. Yeah, exactly, six billion for

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Speaker 1: HIV and AIDS programs. He thinks that the foreign aid

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Speaker 1: spending is wasteful versus like Jadie Vance's vacation budget, which

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Speaker 1: is just muney well spent to raise in Ohio and

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Speaker 1: find out what the people in the Cots world think

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Speaker 1: of shady bands.

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Speaker 2: I was personally told, they hate us for our freedom.

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Speaker 2: But whatever you say with this revision in history, So Molly,

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Speaker 2: there's always these things now where you know, Trump is

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Speaker 2: finding himself between a rock and a hard place with

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Speaker 2: the base and the influencers are in the base, because

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Speaker 2: the influencers in the bass always have to do this

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Speaker 2: thing where they're waging a class word and they're like,

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Speaker 2: you liberal potheads are so awful. But Trump really keeps

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Speaker 2: thinking about how he keeps himself preserved, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: maybe some weed reform will make me a little more popular.

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Speaker 2: What do you see in here?

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Speaker 1: Marijuana reform is super popular. There are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who are getting older and older, including baby boomers

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Speaker 1: right who are probably in need of like meddicinal marijuana.

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Speaker 1: It's legal in a lot of states. So the idea

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Speaker 1: that they're not going to reclassify it. I think that

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Speaker 1: the reason why Trump will classify this is because he

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Speaker 1: thinks it will help him electorally. But the reason to

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Speaker 1: reclassify it is because it's ridiculous. It's already not illegal

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Speaker 1: in many places. So I think it's like one of

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Speaker 1: these things where you know, the worst person you know

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Speaker 1: has good ideas, right, the worst person you know meme.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I'm very, very very familiar. And I think

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Speaker 2: that this is the thing, is that marijuana reform is

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Speaker 2: a very smart thing that will also lessen the burden

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Speaker 2: on our country of people being in jail who shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be there, which is also ruining lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be shocked if Trump world is going to

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Speaker 1: be releasing people from jail. Sure, but I do love that.

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Speaker 1: Matt Walsh from The Daily Wire very mad. No country

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Speaker 1: of podheads has ever thrived or ever achieved anything at all.

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Speaker 1: Every city that legalized is it becomes a bigger shitthole.

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Speaker 1: Basically overnight. America deserves better, Our kids deserve better. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be smelling weed anytime I take my

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Speaker 1: kids to a city or national park. That's Maga podcaster

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Speaker 1: Jack Pasobiac.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got bad news for them. A lot of

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Speaker 2: our American innovation has been fueled by someone smoking pot

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Speaker 2: and having a great idea.

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Speaker 1: I totally disagree with that, and I think that pot

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Speaker 1: makes you really stupid, and I'm sober.

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Speaker 2: You know, obviously, yes, but there's also scientific evidence that

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Speaker 2: that's not correct.

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Speaker 1: Oh No, pot definitely makes you stupider.

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Speaker 2: Pot makes you stupider, but it also inspires better ideas

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Speaker 2: than the present that's scientifically proven.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not. You sound like Joe Row.

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Speaker 3: Yes it is.

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Speaker 1: We'll get a scientist on here and we'll talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a book on creativity and science. If you

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Speaker 2: were called, I actually am an expert on this subject.

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Speaker 2: There's countless universities that cite this that don't want to

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Speaker 2: smoke pot and brag about it. They reluctantly admit this.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening to this podcast and you think Jesse

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Speaker 1: is wrong, please send me a DM. I have open

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Speaker 1: dms on all the platforms.

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Speaker 2: He's going to pull out this textbook from University of

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Speaker 2: Chicago's Creativity program that shows this study.

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Speaker 1: Jesse is going to get schooled, so please text me.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So debs are claiming victory at Texas redistricting and they

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Speaker 2: say that they killed this corrupt special session. I feel

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Speaker 2: like there's a lot of battles left to go here, Molly,

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Speaker 2: what are you thinking?

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Speaker 1: So again, we've been covering this because it is really Look,

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Speaker 1: if they redistrict, they corruptly can keep the house, and

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Speaker 1: it's the beginning of possibly the I mean, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like every day is the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: end of American democracy. But this seems really, really, really

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Speaker 1: really bad. And the good news here is that he's

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Speaker 1: going to adjourn this session and he'll probably call another session.

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Speaker 1: But their Democrats are going to keep fighting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is something that really fucking matters if you want,

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Speaker 1: like you know they talk about like sliding into its oraitarianism,

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Speaker 1: it's everything right, It's like them getting the house. It's this,

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Speaker 1: it's that. So if you care about this, like find

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Speaker 1: out what METO is doing to raise money here, because

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Speaker 1: this is like actually a smart thing to spend your

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Speaker 1: money on. I don't know how you support these guys,

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Speaker 1: but they're going to basically have to be out of

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Speaker 1: the state until November in order to keep this from happening.

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Speaker 1: And Trump is going to try it in other places.

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Speaker 1: But the hope is that Republicans there will be enough

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Speaker 1: Republicans who don't have brainworms and that this won't get through.

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Speaker 1: We'll see it is really just absolute nightmare fuel. Mike

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Speaker 1: Tamaski is the editor of the New Republic and the

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Speaker 1: author of The Middle Out, The Rise of Progressive Economics,

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Speaker 1: Welcome Too Fast Politics. Mike Tamaski, Hey, hi, hi, I

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Speaker 1: feel like everything is getting worse every week, every week. Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there might have been one week in June where

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Speaker 4: you took a little bit of a break, but I've

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Speaker 4: kind of been tracking it week by week, and except

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Speaker 4: for that one week, I can't remember where it was.

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Speaker 3: Things have gotten worse every single week, and they certainly

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Speaker 3: got worse this week.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with it what's happening in DC,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know that everyone understands why it's bad.

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Speaker 1: I think there are smart people who don't understand what

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Speaker 1: it means, why it's meaningful. I was on a panel

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Speaker 1: with some one today who was saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: crime is a problem, which again, and the Democrats shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say crime isn't a problem. I agree that it's not

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Speaker 1: good to not talk about what's happening, you know, like

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Speaker 1: saying inflation isn't a problem. But I also think you'll

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Speaker 1: notice something Donald Trump does. But I think that when

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Speaker 1: you look at what's happening with these government occupiers in DC,

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Speaker 1: they can't actually prevent crime or homelessness. Right, What is

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Speaker 1: their job these people?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, their job is to go arrest some black kids

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Speaker 3: and get footage for Fox News of them them putting

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Speaker 3: handcuffs on black kids.

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Speaker 1: But they can't actually arrest people. The DC police are

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Speaker 1: the only people can arrest.

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Speaker 3: They can do what they want. Donald Trump does what

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Speaker 3: he wants, and people who are under his orders can

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Speaker 3: do what they want until the courts demonstrate otherwise. Look,

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Speaker 3: first of all, yeah, the numbers are real, the crime

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Speaker 3: members are real. They're down. It's down. I live a

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Speaker 3: few miles from the district up in Maryland since the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: and we don't have an office down there anymore. Even

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Speaker 3: I don't go down there that much, but sometimes I

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Speaker 3: do go take like long bike rides on a Saturday

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Speaker 3: or Sunday afternoon. I go through all parts of the city.

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Speaker 3: I mean all parts. I go through Southeast Anacostia, you know,

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Speaker 3: where some people would have got to go. I've never

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Speaker 3: felt anything. I've just never felt anything. Now that's not

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Speaker 3: to say that other people might not. And they're apparently

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Speaker 3: carjackings specifically are approblem and that's a scary thing. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're sitting at a red light at ten o'clock at

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Speaker 3: night and all of a sudden these people come and

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Speaker 3: smash their car windows and take care. That's terrifying. So

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Speaker 3: if that happens to people, you don't care. They don't

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Speaker 3: care about the statistics. I get all that, But like,

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Speaker 3: if Donald Trump wanted to come in and say, gee,

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Speaker 3: I'm concerned about these car jaggings. I want to give

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Speaker 3: the DC Police Department some help in addressing this problem,

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Speaker 3: then they'd work with the police department, they'd work with

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Speaker 3: the mayor, they'd work with the police commissioner, who they've

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Speaker 3: been making fun of for the last two days. And

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Speaker 3: you know, they'd say, where do we need to be? Well,

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Speaker 3: you need to be at the intersection of Rhode Island

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Speaker 3: Avenue and you know, seventeenth Street northeast or wherever. I

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Speaker 3: just made that up, but that's the kind of part

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Speaker 3: of town where these things might be happening, and they'd

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Speaker 3: deployed people there and they'd do that. But instead, currently

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Speaker 3: they've got people standing outside the Lincoln Memorial and the

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Speaker 3: Jefferson Memorial. Yeah, I bet you there hasn't been anything

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Speaker 3: more than a pickpocket at the Lincoln Memorial or Jefferson

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Speaker 3: Memorial in years. You know, he's not trying to He's

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Speaker 3: just trying to do divert from Epstein and do some

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Speaker 3: kind of bullshit racist thing of the sort that he

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Speaker 3: always does. And you know, all you had to do

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Speaker 3: was listen to that press conference Monday and just the

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Speaker 3: way he talked about not only Washington but cities in general.

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Speaker 3: It's Archie Bunker all the way.

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Speaker 1: No. Absolutely, And so the question then becomes, he had

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Speaker 1: the force in Los Angeles they laughed, right, because there

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Speaker 1: wasn't really anything for them to do. He's going to

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Speaker 1: have it in DC. The question is he can only,

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Speaker 1: by the way, legally, he can only do it for

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Speaker 1: thirty days. Not that legality matters to any of these people,

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Speaker 1: but if you were technically that is I think relevant.

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Speaker 1: But I just am curious, like, what do you think?

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Speaker 1: What's the goal here?

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Speaker 3: Is?

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Speaker 1: The goal is for footage for Fox News and to

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Speaker 1: just draft. The goal is I think to scare people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all those things. Yeah, I suppose in his

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Speaker 3: mind these are trulydangerous hellholes, and he's saving people. But

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I live near the District of Columbia. It's

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Speaker 3: not a hell New York City's not a hell hole.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are certain neighborhoods of all cities. Of course,

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Speaker 3: there are more dangerous than other neighborhoods. But if you

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Speaker 3: want to do something about that, it takes commitment, it

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Speaker 3: takes time, it takes money. I think I know the route.

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Speaker 3: I've plotted it out anyway on Google Maps, from the

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Speaker 3: White House to Trump National Golf Course, and I know

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Speaker 3: that he goes past this thing on this place called

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Speaker 3: the street called the East Street Expressway, and there's where

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Speaker 3: it broadens into the thing that connects you to Interstate

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Speaker 3: sixty six. There's this little green sward and there are

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Speaker 3: some tents. There are four or five eight tenths there.

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Speaker 3: I guess they're gone now, but he drove past those

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Speaker 3: handful of tents, and that's probably the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably what it is. And you know, these

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Speaker 1: people will not necessarily fix homelessness at all.

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Speaker 3: No, that a lot of money. I mean, you know

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Speaker 3: that takes a lot of money. So he says these

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Speaker 3: people are going to be given a place to stay

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Speaker 3: but far from the capitol. Well, let's see what that

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Speaker 3: is and let's see how long that is. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're probably going to put them in some hotel in

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Speaker 3: Prince George's county for two weeks or something like that.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of New York mayors putting homeless people

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Speaker 1: on the bus to Florida.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or the southern governors, you know, putting migrants on

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Speaker 3: the bus to New York and then took it. And

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Speaker 3: of course we know that they took a billion dollars

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Speaker 3: and a big beautiful bill. They took a billion dollars

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Speaker 3: out of District of Columbia fund. So it's an abomination

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Speaker 3: and it's police state stuff. And you know, it's getting

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Speaker 3: edging us closer and closer to the point where the

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Speaker 3: military of the United States can arrest citizens. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're not there quite yet, but we're getting to the

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Speaker 3: point where the military of the United States, which is

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Speaker 3: supposed to go out and fight wars, will be arresting

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Speaker 3: the citizens of the United States. And that's fascism. Where

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Speaker 3: the capital is.

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Speaker 1: You and I have been doing this for a while,

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Speaker 1: you slightly longer.

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Speaker 3: Than I have, with great results.

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Speaker 1: Right because I'm much younger than you are much It

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Speaker 1: seems like even in twenty sixteen, there were people who

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Speaker 1: were poised to at least look like they might get

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Speaker 1: us out of this mess. It didn't happen to be true.

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Speaker 1: But there was a Bob Maler, there was this.

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Speaker 5: It was that.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't strike me that there's anyone like that at

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Speaker 1: this time. And the redistricting stuff seems pretty ominous, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Texas is really interested in redistricting, which giving

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Speaker 1: the Trump five more seats, So maybe that happens. If

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Speaker 1: it happens, California goes down that road, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: that's five seats in California. I mean, it really negates

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Speaker 1: the entire democratic system. You know, we're starting then there's

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Speaker 1: a seat here and a seat there, and Republicans can

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Speaker 1: probably make it so that they keep the House by redistricting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not impossib but it's certainly possible. It

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Speaker 1: strikes me as really bad, So talk us through that.

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Speaker 3: It's totally possible that they could keep the House. And

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Speaker 3: you know, first of all, let's just back up and

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Speaker 3: say this is insane that this is happening in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five I don't know the history well enough to

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Speaker 3: say definitively that there's no precedent for it. Somebody probably

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Speaker 3: tried this somewhere along line, I guess, but it's in

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Speaker 3: the Constitution. They discussed it at the Constitutional Convention at length.

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Speaker 3: I read James Madison's notes. They decided to do it

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Speaker 3: every ten years. That was a big compromise. After they

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Speaker 3: debated about a lot of stuff. They decided to do

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Speaker 3: it every ten years. They decided a congressional district was

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Speaker 3: thirty thousand seats I think it was, and then on

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Speaker 3: the very last day of the Constitutional Convention they changed

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Speaker 3: that to forty thousand. My point being, it was a

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Speaker 3: subject of heated conversation the court Supreme Court cases in

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Speaker 3: the early nineteen sixties that gave us what we call

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Speaker 3: now one man, one person, one vote, used to be

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Speaker 3: one man, one vote. Those were hotly, hotly contested. So

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Speaker 3: this has been a very controversial thing redistricting for our

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Speaker 3: entire history. But no president that I'm aware of, has

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Speaker 3: ever said, in the middle of the ten year period,

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Speaker 3: I want you to do this now, and the governor,

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Speaker 3: any governor so approached, should say, mister President, I'm sorry

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Speaker 3: Constitution says every ten years, I can't do that. It's

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Speaker 3: so that alone is just an absolute abomination against the Constitution.

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Speaker 3: The fact that they're considering and now I see Abbot's

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Speaker 3: talking about maybe eight seats instead of five. This came

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Speaker 3: up just today, I think so. And is he really

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Speaker 3: good to arrest? Is he going to send troops?

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Speaker 1: He can't arrest people because what happens is it's not illegal,

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Speaker 1: so you can try to or I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: the thing. It's like Trump World has gotten so removed

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Speaker 1: from what is legal and what is illegal that they've

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Speaker 1: sort of just started making stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if Donald Trump tells Texas Rangers, I say,

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Speaker 3: you go arrest them, what are they going to do?

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Speaker 1: The good news, if there is good news here, is

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Speaker 1: that if members of the Texas House stay out August nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: the session ends, and so Abbott will call another session

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Speaker 1: and then he can call another session. But November is

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Speaker 1: meant to be when it's over. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: that they don't try to push a pass November. But

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Speaker 1: November is the filing deadline, so you could theoretically right

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Speaker 1: out the clock on this.

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Speaker 3: We could and I go, I know, works Packice like

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Speaker 3: curarently paying their hotel bills. Hope, I hope Richie Liberals

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Speaker 3: get it together. It said, you know, pay for these

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Speaker 3: people to stay out of the state for as long

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Speaker 3: as it takes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the hero of this story, if I'm correct,

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Speaker 1: is bad All Rourke, who has fundraised this money for

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Speaker 1: these guys. Because as much as Pritzker can be helped,

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Speaker 1: he's had to really be careful about the money situation,

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Speaker 1: because there's all sorts of ethical I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: like the joke. We got Trump doing bitcoin and selling

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Speaker 1: sneakers and financing this with that and doing every extra

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Speaker 1: legal maneuver in the book, and then we have Democrats

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Speaker 1: worried that they're going to do something that's going to

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Speaker 1: run a foul.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, they care about the law, they have consciences.

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Speaker 1: Well, and they'll also go to jail if anything goes

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's just a totally different standard, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, completely different standard. Who's going to prosecute Donald Trump?

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. You know, I spend so much

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Speaker 1: time thinking about this, like scenario of say Trump isn't

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Speaker 1: able to do this redistricting thing. You really do see

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Speaker 1: how much he believes that if Republicans lose the midterm,

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Speaker 1: it's like he knows what he's doing is unpopular.

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Speaker 3: Yeah he does, and his agenda is dead, and you

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Speaker 3: know he's going to be investigated like crazy. Jamie Raskin

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Speaker 3: is going to be running the Judiciary late, which has

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Speaker 3: the power of holding impeachment earings and doing other kinds

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Speaker 3: of sect and it rains to be seen. I guess

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Speaker 3: we might run House oversight. But I hope they give

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Speaker 3: to somebody aggressive.

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Speaker 1: I hope they'd made right now it's Robert Garcia.

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Speaker 3: Garcia. Yeah, it's been really good, really good. So you know,

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Speaker 3: that's two aggressive people with subpoenas. Now they'll like or

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Speaker 3: subpoenas and they'll just as they did last time, you

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Speaker 3: know mcgahann and all those people, So they'll like nor

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Speaker 3: subpoenas again, and the Supreme Court will probably say, who knows,

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Speaker 3: you know, they don't have to I don't know, So

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Speaker 3: it'll just be a stalemate. But at least they'll be

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Speaker 3: able to adduce evidence of a lot of wrongdoing, I think,

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Speaker 3: and show the American people what this administration has been

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Speaker 3: up to. So yeah, Trump's got to be.

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Speaker 1: Terrified of how we got here, Like, if we were

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Speaker 1: just to have a minute about how we got here

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Speaker 1: to this place where democracy feels so tenuous, it strikes

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Speaker 1: me that the Supreme Court is the original send here.

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Speaker 1: To have a legal body that does not believe in

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Speaker 1: the legality of certain things feels like the original sin.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the immunity ruling is absolutely shocking, and

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Speaker 3: we have yet to see that play out fully because

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Speaker 3: Trump hasn't really done anything that just utterly. He's done

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Speaker 3: a lot of very shocking things, but he hasn't quite

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Speaker 3: yet done anything that just makes your average person go, wait,

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Speaker 3: what was that? But he'll do that, and the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court said, okay, and then where will we be? So yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Supreme Court, for sure, But the Republicans in Congress,

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Speaker 3: you know who, are taking no institutional responsibility. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know, the Democrats aren't blameless. I mean, if you

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Speaker 3: look at it another way, the problem is that Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden decided to run again. The Democrats had had a

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Speaker 3: normal process and had come up with a strong candidate

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Speaker 3: through a who was tested in a process. There's a

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Speaker 3: better chance that that person might be the president today.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's true, but some of this was unstoppable. I mean,

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Speaker 1: certainly Biden got us here, for sure, but even someone

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Speaker 1: who wasn't Biden, I mean, the stuff that the Republicans

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Speaker 1: have done, Like I thought for sure there would be

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Speaker 1: a moment where Republicans would say, like this is too much,

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Speaker 1: And that has not happened.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't know if that moment will come. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if a woman who was at the time a girl

433
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 3: comes forward with a certain set of allegations, maybe, but

434
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: even then, only maybe, even then, only maybe. I mean,

435
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: there is such a person. Katie Johnson is the name

436
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: that she has gone by, and I've read her testimony

437
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 3: about what supposedly allegedly happened. I'm sure you've read it.

438
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 3: If Katie Johnson or some other Katie Johnson came forward,

439
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 3: well that would be a whole other thing to grapple with.

440
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 3: But even then, unless there's like pictures video.

441
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's a theory going around, And by going around,

442
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean Jesse and I and a couple of other

443
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: people have talked about this idea that maybe the centrism

444
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: that we have for so long been told is the

445
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: only way to win elections is actually not the only

446
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: way to win elections. And in fact that what voters

447
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: want is more of a sort of working class vision,

448
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: and that even though we've had people on this podcast

449
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: who've said, well, Mondannie can only win in New York

450
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: and it's not the same. But you know, in Nebraska

451
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: we saw Dan Osborne had a message it was very

452
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: close to Bernie Sanders and Mondannie, and it was pretty popular.

453
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: And Sanders has had a pretty popular message. So I'm

454
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: curious what you think about this sort of divide in

455
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, since you are actually a Democrat. Usually

456
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: asked never Trump Republicans and they say, pooh, pooh, that's

457
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: totally wrong. Corporatism is the way. But what do you think.

458
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 3: I think that we tend to be a little too

459
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: focused on this center versus left thing. I think Mondani

460
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 3: has other things going for him. He speaks plain English.

461
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 3: He doesn't sound like he's been handed a script by handlers.

462
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 3: That's number one. That's really too many Democrats sound like

463
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: they're just afraid they're walking on eggshells. So he just

464
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: talks like a normal human being. He's talking about things

465
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: that people care about in their everyday lives. City run

466
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 3: grocery stores. I think that's a really cool idea.

467
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: Right, we actually have a city run grocery store. Believe

468
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: it or not.

469
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: Oh really, where is it?

470
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 1: Yeah? It exists. I mean the thing is when the

471
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: government incentivizes things, it works, and when the government descentive

472
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's like the difference between oil companies and

473
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: flavored vape company is. But anyways to go on.

474
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, got he's got personality, he's got style, he's

475
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: got swear. He seems cool. Nothing about the Democrats seems cools.

476
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 3: The brand is like so, you know, and they're their

477
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: lowest popularity. That's not because they're true left wing. That's

478
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: because they're just as a party. There are many good ones.

479
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: We just named some Jamie and Garcia, and there are

480
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: many others. Just overall, they're just kind ofly They're just

481
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: like not the kind of people you'd invite to a party,

482
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: And they don't take enough chances. They don't they're afraid

483
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: to make any enemies. That is a huge problem. I

484
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 3: could talk about that for another half hour next time

485
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 3: I'm on. Maybe they're afraid to make enemies. They're afraid

486
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: and Donald Trump has a version of swagger, you know,

487
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: no wonder young people kind of said, oh, he's interesting.

488
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: Democrats just aren't interesting. So Mandani at least is interesting

489
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: and has some Panash.

490
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: Mike TAMASKI, will you come back, Lui Ta. Miles Taylor

491
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: is a former national security official and the author of

492
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the Substack Treason. Welcome to Fast Politics, Miles Taylor.

493
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 5: Great to be with you always, Mile, It's great to

494
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 5: be with you.

495
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: I actually want to talk to you because, I mean,

496
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: you published an anonymous book during the first Trump admin.

497
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: You know, you had this op ed, this incredible op

498
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: ed that you wrote about taking a piece of paper

499
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: off his desk and how important you know, how much

500
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: the people around him were able to prevent the unthinkable

501
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: from happening. I want you to talk about what it's

502
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: like this time to watch it happened without those things

503
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: going on.

504
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, I think both you and I

505
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 5: would agree that this all was very foreseeable. And yeah,

506
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 5: you know, I think a lot of folks felt this way.

507
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 5: I mean, there's never been a slow motion brain wreck

508
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 5: like this in the history of American politics. I mean,

509
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 5: it was so noble that he was going to come

510
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 5: in so a second term that was focused on revenge,

511
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 5: and that was noble, and he said it. He said it,

512
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: but it was noble even years before that, because during

513
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 5: that first administration, that was the bulk of a lot

514
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 5: of his orders that our lawyers determined were in many

515
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 5: cases illegal or unconstitutional, as he wanted to use government

516
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 5: agencies to go after his enemies to reward his allies.

517
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 5: I mean, this was a very familiar pattern of behavior.

518
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 5: And look, you know, Molly, I get anyone who would say, yeah,

519
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 5: but you know, you know, it's not your job to

520
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 5: fill in and sell the president of what he can

521
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 5: and can't do. And it is Interactually.

522
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: Isn't it actually your job as staffers.

523
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 5: Well, here's here's what I would coveyat is when I

524
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 5: talked about an internal resistance within the Trump administration, I

525
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 5: wasn't talking about a group of people that were saying

526
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 5: no to the things that he, as president, was allowed

527
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 5: to do. What's a group of people saying no to things?

528
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: They're just not legal? And I have to reemphasize that

529
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: every time, because you know, there's this popular narrative that's

530
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 5: a president and his allies of popularize that his deep

531
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 5: state was preventing him from doing from implementing his agenda.

532
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 5: That is untrue. There was a group of people preventing

533
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 5: him from doing things that are illegal, and you swear

534
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: an oath to the Constitution and to not break the law,

535
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 5: and you don't swear an oath to a man. And so,

536
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 5: you know, a lot of those things that we blocked

537
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: in term one, of course, have become his priorities in

538
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 5: term two. And that includes, as we're seeing now, these

539
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 5: very very disturbing uses of the United States military that

540
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 5: we now have coast to coast initial deployments of troops

541
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 5: from LA to Washington VC. But these are things he

542
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 5: fantasized about in the first terms. And make no mistake,

543
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 5: you know, in his mind, the ostensible reason for doing

544
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 5: these things was something like immigration or law in order.

545
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 5: But he relished the possibility of having a standing presidence

546
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 5: of US forces in cities that didn't agree with him,

547
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: in democratic cities, and that was something that the time

548
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 5: kind of rolled their eyes and said, yeah, but he

549
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 5: probably really doesn't think that, right, He doesn't really want

550
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 5: to put these in democratics. So they said, no, that's

551
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 5: absolutely what the president wants to do. And true to form,

552
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 5: as he always does, he has now spelled that out

553
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 5: in black and white there's that truth so post from

554
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 5: like six weeks ago where he says I want to

555
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 5: go into Democrat cities. I mean he has said the

556
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 5: quiet part out loud and we need to take them seriously.

557
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, So talk to me about like this

558
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: idea of sending he sent the national California National Guard.

559
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: He federalized the Guard and sent them in to Los Angeles.

560
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: You know, they had no place to sleep, they had

561
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: nothing to eat, they were there, nothing really happened. Now

562
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: they're gone. Now he's doing it in d C. Explained

563
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: us as someone who worked in the administration why he

564
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: wants to do this, because I think it's important. I

565
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: think it's lost on some of us why he wants

566
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: to do it.

567
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 5: Well, first, I'll say it's pretty remarkable that Donald Trump

568
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 5: can deploy the National Guard to stop petty theft in Washington, DC,

569
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 5: but seemed unable to do it to stop an insurrection.

570
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 5: On January sixth, I mean everyone should be talking about that.

571
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 5: There was an incident involving one of his political appointees,

572
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 5: one of the DOSE staffers I think known as big Balls,

573
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 5: and you know big Ball all gets punched in the

574
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 5: face and Donald Trump deploys the National Guard into Washington, DC,

575
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 5: Yet hundreds thousands of rioters storm the United States Capital

576
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 5: and he sits on his hands and watches from the

577
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 5: outer oval. That's really disgusting to me as an American.

578
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 5: Look putting that aside for a moment, what I think

579
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 5: happened in la is I genuinely think Donald Trump and

580
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 5: Stephen Miller were disappointed that the people of Los Angeles

581
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 5: showed so much restraint, and I didn't even think that

582
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 5: was going to happen. I was very worried that the

583
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 5: presence of troops was going to lead to molotov cocktails

584
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 5: and really serious attacks on folks, which is I think

585
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 5: what the White House was hoping for, so they could

586
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 5: induce a further craft down on the region and on

587
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 5: the state. But people really really really held back, and

588
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 5: I think that that's very important, and so ultimately they

589
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: rolled back that presence. But now you're seeing this being

590
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 5: done in Washington, d C. I don't imagine this is

591
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 5: going to be like Los Angeles. I would bet that

592
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 5: for the rest of the Trump presidency, at least, either

593
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 5: the National Guard or other federal agents des floyd on

594
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 5: those streets because Donald Trump is saying right now, it's

595
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 5: just because there's been a spike in theft in Washington

596
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 5: which turns out not to be tearor there's been to

597
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 5: define in Prime and Washington, DC over the past two years.

598
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 5: But in reality, he's been talking for years and years

599
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 5: about federalizing Washington, DC. And that's what you always have

600
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 5: to look at with Donald Trump is you have to

601
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 5: look away from the proximate cause he says, this is

602
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 5: why I'm doing this thing right now, it's because of

603
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 5: a caravan that's coming forwards the US border. No no, no, no, no,

604
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 5: You've got to go back in time and see what

605
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 5: he's been talking about. Take picture, and he has been

606
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 5: talking about reclaiming that city, not only staying away from

607
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 5: DC statement, but taking Washington, d C and putting it

608
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 5: fully under federal control once again. That is I think

609
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 5: his endgame here, and you're going to see it likely

610
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 5: happen in gradiations starting with this crackdown on street crime

611
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 5: right their number.

612
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 1: It never is really about what he says it is.

613
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: It's always about something weird and also some kind of

614
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: weird history. He has one of the things that there

615
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: are like small things that I think are worrying and problematic,

616
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: like his Mara lagoing of the White House. Can you

617
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: explain why things like that which seem very stupid actually

618
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: are very important, because I think they actually are. But

619
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: I'd love you to explain why.

620
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 5: Some people hate this author. Some people love this author.

621
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 5: But I'm a cider in this instance because she has

622
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 5: a really good essay along these lines from a half

623
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 5: century ago. Heinrand wrote this essay sometime during the Cold War,

624
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 5: and I think it's all you know, something like the

625
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: monument Men, And it's an essay about why autocrafts build monuments,

626
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: and especially monuments to themselves. And the crux of it

627
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 5: is that, you know, people who have such a high

628
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 5: opinion of themselves in positions of government want to centralized control,

629
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: make themselves dictators for life. They have an insecurity, they

630
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 5: know that that legacy will not last forever, and deep

631
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 5: inside they know the faulty logic that has led them

632
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 5: to demand centralized control, and as sort of a projection

633
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 5: to cover up for that, they go build monuments to themselves.

634
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 5: And not only is this a disgusting sort of thing,

635
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 5: to witness its total misuse of taxpayer dollars and resources

636
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 5: is to build up the image of one man who's

637
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 5: in charge. And we see this all over autocratic countries

638
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 5: throughout the twentieth century. It looks back. I mean, go

639
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 5: through Hell. You just travel today through Eastern Europe and

640
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 5: you can find still relics of Stalin's reign statues to

641
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 5: Joseph Stalin that he himself had put up. This is

642
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 5: a hallmark of autocrat is could go build these government

643
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 5: structures for themselves. Now, Donald Trump claims that, for instance,

644
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 5: this new ballroom he's building at the White House to

645
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 5: leave his imprint on that property, is not going to

646
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 5: be funded by taxpayers. It's going to be privately funded,

647
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 5: and he says he himself is going to fund it.

648
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 5: We know that not to be true. Many times throughout

649
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's career he said he's going to pay for something,

650
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 5: you know, including checks to charities that he's pledged money to,

651
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 5: and he ends up trying to find someone else to

652
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 5: put the bill in the endgame. So I wouldn't be

653
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 5: surprised at all if the taxpayers do end up putting

654
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 5: a good chunk of this bill, or he crowdsources it

655
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 5: to his supporters. And if that sounds incendiary looked no

656
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 5: further than Donald Trump when he was crowdsourcing payment for

657
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 5: a new debt for himself to his supporters back during

658
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 5: the early days of the twenty twenty four presidential campaign.

659
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: So I can see that happening. But the bigger thing here, Molly,

660
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 5: as you allude to, is just what this symbolizes. And

661
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 5: it symbolizes a man wanting to create monuments to himself,

662
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 5: which is also just scratches the surface of all of

663
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 5: these other autocratic tendencies. Seeing in the second term of Donald's.

664
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: Brump, one of the things that I'm struck by, and

665
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think, is it feels like there's

666
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: just not a ton of resistance to him. I think

667
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: people are actually really mad at him and are resisting him.

668
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: But it feels like the institutions, like the billionaires, the

669
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: people were supposed to be sort of stalwarts of whatever,

670
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: seem to have really caved. Why do you think that is?

671
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: And also what do you think that sort of where

672
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: do you think that gets us? Right now?

673
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 5: I've been sort of toggling back and forth the past

674
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 5: few weeks, from little moments of optimism to a great

675
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 5: deal of cynicism. About what's happening. And you know, No

676
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 5: King's Day when that happened, that was sort of the

677
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 5: apex of my optimism. There's actually a lot more people

678
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 5: that came out and mobilized than I spect especially for

679
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 5: what was a hot day and a lot of cities

680
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 5: across the country. That was encouraging to see. However, as

681
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 5: you point to the elites, the institutions that are under

682
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 5: fire are largely capitulating. And this is really, really, really

683
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: worrisome to me. And you know, I'll take an examples

684
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 5: Tim Cook. People who know Tim Cook, CEO of Apple,

685
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 5: know him to be deeply in his core opposed to

686
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 5: Donald Trump and everything he stands to. And yet you

687
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 5: had a Tim Cook last week who went into the

688
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 5: Oval Office, gave Donald Trump this twenty four carrot gold

689
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 5: gifts and allotted him rhetorically right there in the Oval Office,

690
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 5: and then stood by as Trump verbally attacked his enemies

691
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 5: and sort of flaunted his abuses of power. These sort

692
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 5: of things are happening every single day where major organizations

693
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 5: and institutions that he has threatened are demonstrating very clear fealty.

694
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 5: And what I've been saying the past few days is

695
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 5: we need people to wake up to the fact that

696
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 5: it's not just the elites that are under threats. Yes,

697
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 5: people like New York Attorney General Letitia James and Senator

698
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 5: Adam Schiff all the way to myself are under investigations

699
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 5: by Trump's administration has pure and clear retaliation for having

700
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 5: opposed him, or investigated him, or spoke out against him.

701
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 5: It would be easy enough to be a listener at

702
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 5: home and say, I mean that sucks. I like those people.

703
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 5: I don't want to see that happen. But how does

704
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 5: that affect me? Well, the answer is one, it's made

705
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 5: it easier, just from the strophe of a pen for

706
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 5: the President of the United States to investigate whoever he wants.

707
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 5: But the bigger picture is the legal institutions in our society,

708
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 5: the schools that we go to, the businesses that we

709
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 5: buy products from, the media that we consume, all of

710
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 5: it is very slowly being warped because of his decisions,

711
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 5: because of his intimidation. I mean major news outlets. There

712
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 5: are people who are avoiding covering stories because they just

713
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 5: don't want to folk the bear. Now, they themselves wouldn't

714
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 5: think they're avoiding covering those stories because of a lack

715
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 5: of courage. But it's just a path of least resistance. Okay,

716
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 5: maybe not poke the bear, Maybe not cover that story.

717
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 5: Because journalists are getting fired and people like Stephen Polder

718
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 5: are getting fired. Educational institutions are capitulating and giving the

719
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 5: administration what they want because they're launching these sham investigations

720
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 5: and with folding federal aids to force those institutions to

721
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 5: change their policies. It's actually changing what people are going

722
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 5: to learn in the classroom. It's going to change the

723
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 5: people they are surrounded with. And this is resulting in

724
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 5: real numbers. Foreign students start coming to the United States.

725
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: People are starting to boycott American products. He could go

726
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 5: on and on and on. Prom's revenge is changing the

727
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 5: world that we live in. And not long ago, I

728
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 5: sat down with a friend whose family escaped Putin's Russia

729
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 5: early when Putin was president, and he said, look, this

730
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 5: is very similar to how it felt in those early

731
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 5: days of Putin as the country had been very optimistic,

732
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: Russia was democratizing, and then all of a sudden, this

733
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 5: guy came in and started to intimidate every sector of

734
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 5: society to demonstrate loyalty to him and his administration, and

735
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 5: it started to have these really really perverse effects. You

736
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 5: couldn't get good legal representation, you were worried about people

737
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 5: ratting you out. It got really weird, and we're seeing that.

738
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 5: I mean, Laura Lumber, one of the presidents closest outside allies,

739
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 5: now has a tip line to allow people to phone

740
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 5: in tips about disloyal government employees. You never had anything

741
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 5: like that in the history of the United States, even

742
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 5: with Parthyism, didn't have a one eight hundred number or

743
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 5: email address that you could send in a tip about

744
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 5: someone who was being disloyal to the presidents. This is

745
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: really scary stuff, and it causes changes in behavior that

746
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 5: are hard to see from the surface that have enormous

747
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 5: secondary and tertiary consequences as people start to self censor,

748
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 5: from the billionaire CEOs all the way down to people

749
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 5: in the classroom. That's what we're talking about. Here is

750
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 5: a full nationwide in past from this revenge campaign. I mean,

751
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 5: this is something I think about all the time. How

752
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 5: do you get back from something like this. You've worked

753
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 5: in the federal government, you know obviously this is a

754
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 5: real problem. You know, there's all sorts of stuff happening

755
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 5: that's like, you know the kind of stuff that Nicks,

756
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 5: I mean, making Nixon look like Lincoln, right, yep, just.

757
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: At every stage. So I wonder, like, what do you

758
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: think a sort of I mean, clearly Democrats have to

759
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: win back power and this cherrymandering. I mean like like

760
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about Texas adding five seats. If Texas adds

761
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: five seats, like right, so so talk us through kind

762
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 1: of like I mean, is there a way to push

763
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: back on you know, I mean clearly what's happened here

764
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: is Texas has sort of I mean, I feel like

765
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: overturning SBA, then the repeal of Roe, like you can

766
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: see a straight line from you know, how we got

767
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: to a place where now Texas is really a state

768
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: that has is become a sort of a cunt of

769
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: its own that is going to influence everything.

770
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that you are seen right now

771
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 5: in other states, especially democratic states, so far a very

772
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 5: interesting kind of restraint. I thought what Gavin Newsome did

773
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 5: the past couple days was extraordinarily clever, which is he

774
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 5: proposed poessentially to tack any action that happens in California

775
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 5: to what's happening in Texas. In other words, rather than

776
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 5: just come back out and say California, you're going to

777
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 5: retaliate by Jerry Manderin and doing the same thing to

778
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 5: balance out the seats, he instead said that if Texas

779
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 5: does go forward with this, it can potentially trigger it

780
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 5: happening in California, which might change the incentives in Texas,

781
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 5: because if you're a legislator in Texas and you know

782
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 5: that essentially what California does is going to nullify what

783
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 5: you do, then you may not want to go forward

784
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 5: with it. But also importantly, it's newsome showing we're not

785
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 5: just going to engage in tit for tat revenge and

786
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,959
Speaker 5: just go forward with it no matter what happens. We're

787
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 5: going to wait and see and give them an offering.

788
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 5: And I think that's what's important and interesting here is

789
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 5: we've got to figure out an off ramp from getting

790
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 5: into the twenty first century Jerrymanderin wars, because this could

791
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 5: get very very ugly, very quick. And if we think

792
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 5: our politics is broken right now, just wait until every

793
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 5: single state in the Union we're trying to carve up

794
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 5: every locality in awkward ways to win more seats. I

795
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 5: mean we will be an endless legal and political warfare

796
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 5: if that ends up happening. So I'm glad that Newsom

797
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 5: has shown that restraint, but it is overall, I think,

798
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 5: a very very bad signal about where things are headed.

799
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 5: And make no mistake, this comes from the top. I mean,

800
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,959
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is so worried about the back two years

801
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 5: of his administration that there's no telling to what lengths

802
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 5: they will go to try to rig the system to

803
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 5: get the right number of seats to prevent it from falling,

804
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 5: saying the Democratic cans. And I want to say one

805
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 5: more thing about Molly your point on how do we

806
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 5: get these institutions to push back? And there's a really

807
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 5: simple answer here, and it's what you see when individuals

808
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 5: need to push back against something. I call it a

809
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 5: bystander phenomenon. And I always use the example of you know,

810
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 5: if you got a crowded subway and you see someone

811
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 5: getting eaten nuts. We read these stories in the news

812
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 5: and we're appalled when a whole subway car full of

813
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 5: people fails to save someone from getting attacked. The scenarios

814
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 5: that turn out differently are usually because one person in

815
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 5: that crowd said, you know, and it's going to be

816
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 5: scary to dive into that mess, but I'm going to

817
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 5: do it knowing that it's they breaks this deal. A

818
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 5: second person, a third person, a FOURD person will do it.

819
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 5: But it's really scary to be that first person. And

820
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 5: I'm not saying I've been that first person in my life,

821
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 5: but I've been in the early waves of people.

822
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: You've been the first person. You wrote the anonymous op

823
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: ed from the admin.

824
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 5: Well, and I'll say this, I want people to think

825
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 5: that somehow, I, you know, felt like I was Superman

826
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 5: behind the scenes. It was scary. It was scary, and

827
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 5: I knew when I came forward it was going to

828
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 5: rock my life, and it did. But in doing that,

829
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 5: in coming forward, it made it a lot easier to

830
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 5: recruit friends of mine from the administration, cabinet secretaries who

831
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 5: had spoken out in private but not public, to get

832
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 5: them to come forward. And I spent years after that

833
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 5: really trying to get more of those people to come out,

834
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 5: and the more that did, it made it easier and

835
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 5: easier and easier for the next person. This applies to

836
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 5: the big institutions in our society, and we've already kind

837
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 5: of seen it with the law firms. Thank god, some

838
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 5: of the big law firms pushed back, fought these unlawful

839
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 5: executive orders from Trump to punish them, fought them in

840
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 5: court and got a good outcome, and it started to

841
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 5: make the others that capitulated looked very, very bad, and

842
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 5: that I think prevented it from getting a lot worse.

843
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 5: With the law firms. We need to see the same

844
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 5: thing with universities in this country, with news organizations, with

845
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 5: other institutions that are under fire. Some of them are

846
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 5: going to have to step up and show courage, and

847
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 5: that's going to cost a lot of pain for them

848
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 5: in the short run. But you know, there are glimmers

849
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 5: of hope with some of those institutions that this will happen.

850
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 5: The place I have less hope is with businesses. I've

851
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 5: seen none of the Silicon Valley tech executives say that

852
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's economic policies are terrible for tech and terrible

853
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 5: for the United States, because immigration policies are terrible teching

854
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 5: terrible for the United States. None of these people who

855
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 5: know better and think differently in their personal lives actually

856
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 5: showing it back down. Now that could change, especially if

857
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 5: there's an economic downturn. There's an economic downturn, you're going

858
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,479
Speaker 5: to see CEOs jump off the Trump bandwagon and start

859
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,479
Speaker 5: criticizing the administration. But that's not what it should take.

860
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 5: So you know, look, we're still early in this administration.

861
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 5: But I have been, like you, very alarmed that a

862
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 5: lot of these institutions that are under fire have capitulated

863
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 5: and not wanted to be the first to fight back.

864
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: Miles Taylor, thank you so much for coming on.

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00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 5: This was great, Molly. It's always wonderful to be with you.

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00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 5: Thank you for your voice and for shining a light.

867
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 3: No moment.

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00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

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00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: So, Molly, Gavin some is out here tweeting in the

870
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: style of Donald Trump. It's really hard to read, even

871
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: when you're making fun of him and you're cleaning up

872
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: some of the language. But it seems he's going through

873
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: with this mid decade district redrawing.

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00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 3: What are you seeing.

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00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: Good for Gavin? I mean that's the thing, Like, I

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00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: don't care why you're brave, as long as you're brave.

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00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't care if you're brave because you want to

878
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: be president? Fine, right, I mean, like, what are the

879
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: other choices? Nothing so good for him? You know, do it,

880
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: redraw the maps, fight fire with fire. You know, the

881
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: way we got here was Democrats saying like they're the

882
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: good guys. They're not going to do the bad stuff.

883
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: Only they're going to let Trump just waffle over them.

884
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: So good for Gavin. Redraw the maps, get going. This

885
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: is like really really scary and bad and this is

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00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: the only possible way that we keep our norms and institutions.

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00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: So again I say, good job, Gavin, do it. Just

888
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: don't have Charlie Kirk on your pod cast. That's it

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00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

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00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

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00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

892
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

893
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.