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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh, how the plot thickens

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Speaker 1: more drama as it relates to disgraced now dead millionaire

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, who dies behind prison walls just before he

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Speaker 1: goes to trial on many many counts child rape, molestation,

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Speaker 1: and sex trafficking. His cohort, Jeline Maxwell, gets the same.

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Speaker 1: She's behind bars as well, but in the last days

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Speaker 1: a very disturbing bombshell in the case. Why was Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Epstein sex trafficking victim Virginia Geoffrey charged by cops? This

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Speaker 1: just days before she claims she was on her deathbed

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Speaker 1: after a bus crash. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. US sex trafficking victim

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Speaker 1: Virginia Geffrey charged with breaching a family violence restraining order

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Speaker 1: just a few days before a bush crash in which

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Speaker 1: she first claimed she was fatally injured and had only

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Speaker 1: days to live. Geoffrey, formerly Virginia Roberts, now forty one,

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Speaker 1: posted a photo on Insta on a Sunday night, allegedly

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Speaker 1: from her own hospital bed, claiming she had only four

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Speaker 1: days left to live. She said her car was hit

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Speaker 1: by a school bus that left her with kidney failure,

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Speaker 1: and that doctors told her she would be dead within

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Speaker 1: days now. A spokesperson for Geffrey then admitted about three

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Speaker 1: days later she had quote made a mistake and did

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Speaker 1: not intend to publish the post publicly. According to medical sources,

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Speaker 1: she does not have just days to live or Now

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Speaker 1: we're learning that Geffrey was listed at a magistrates court

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Speaker 1: ten days before the crash over an alleged breach of

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Speaker 1: a family violence restraining order her husband, her estranged husband.

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Speaker 1: Let's be clear about that. Robert Seffrey was also listed

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Speaker 1: at the same court the month before for what allegedly

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Speaker 1: quote providing inadequate storage facility for firearms. Okay, I don't

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Speaker 1: like where this is going. One has a firearm charge,

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Speaker 1: the other has an alleged breach of a family violence order.

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Speaker 1: Good gravy. That's a recipe for disaster. How in any

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Speaker 1: way will this effect claims against Epstein, Julane Maxwell and

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Speaker 1: of course the manchild Peter pan Andrew. I clearly recall

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Speaker 1: what the whole thing is all about. Hold onto your

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Speaker 1: hat and take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: She believes I do, and that no one, no president,

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Speaker 2: no Prime minister, No Prince of England is above the law.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how many contacts you have, doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: who your family is, doesn't matter how much wealth do

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Speaker 2: you have. You're not above the law. And no one,

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Speaker 2: no matter how young or vulnerable or powerless, is deprived

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Speaker 2: of the protection of the law. That is a bedrock

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Speaker 2: principle of American law, and I believe it's a bedrock

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Speaker 2: principle of the United Kingdom from which we got our law.

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Speaker 1: Well, he's absolutely correct. That is well known renowned lawyer

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Speaker 1: David Boyce, who is representing this woman, Virginia Jeffreys in

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Speaker 1: her lawsuit. Again, that's Prince Andrew. We America got our jurisprudence,

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Speaker 1: our body of law, our common law from Great Britain.

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Speaker 1: That's where we got the bedrock of our constitution. It's

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Speaker 1: easier said than done. Right, No one's above the law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in principle, but somehow Prince Andrew has managed to skirt

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Speaker 1: many many claims. You were just hearing Virginia Jeffrey's lawyer,

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Speaker 1: David boy speaking to ITV joining me an all star

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Speaker 1: panel to make some sense of what's going on, and too,

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Speaker 1: although I'm sure they're not betting people like myself and

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Speaker 1: to give me the odds. Will Prince Andrew York slash

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Speaker 1: windsor you can't even get a brit to really tell

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Speaker 1: you his last name. I've asked. Some say York, some

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Speaker 1: say Windsor will he ever be brought to justice? What

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Speaker 1: are the odds that Queen Elizabeth's son is going to

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Speaker 1: cowtow to an American courtroom with me? High profile lawyer

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Speaker 1: out of Seattle and Bremner, author of Justice in the

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Speaker 1: Age of Judgment, and you can find her at Ann

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Speaker 1: Bremner dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall renounced psycho analyst joining

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Speaker 1: us out of la You can find her at doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. She's a star of a new

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Speaker 1: Netflix series, Bling Empire. Death investigator forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Professor Forensics

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, and he is now the star of

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Speaker 1: the Piketon Massacre returned to Pike County on iHeart, but

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Speaker 1: first to a special guest joining us, Charlie Langston. She's

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Speaker 1: the editor of Female fe Nail at Dailymail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Charlie Langston First of all, let's clear this up. Is

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Speaker 1: it Andrew York or Andrew Windsor.

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Speaker 3: Technically the royal family's name last name is Windsor, but

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Speaker 3: they don't really use a last name, so it's Prince

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Speaker 3: Andrew or the Duke of York, whichever you prefer.

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Speaker 1: So if they were to have to write a check,

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Speaker 1: he would just write Andrew like Sheer or Elvis or

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Speaker 1: what he.

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Speaker 3: Would probably write Prince Andrew, or he would write the

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Speaker 3: Duke of York. But the Royal family typically aren't cashing

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Speaker 3: or writing many checks, nor do they typically use credit cards.

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Speaker 3: They have staff who use credit cards on their behalf.

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Speaker 1: Okay, then, who was paying the bill that night at

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Speaker 1: tramps Bar? I very much have I jumped ahead the

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Speaker 1: night he was with an under rased girl dancing and drinking,

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Speaker 1: and his defense says, I don't sweat because of a

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Speaker 1: war wound. Who paid the bill that night?

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Speaker 3: I would imagine that it was either paid in cash

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Speaker 3: or that he had someone with him who paid. But

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Speaker 3: you so, given that he says he wasn't there, I

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Speaker 3: very much doubt we're going to be able to find

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Speaker 3: a paper trail.

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Speaker 1: Well, put, let's cut forward to what's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to the election victim,

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Speaker 1: in this case, Virginia Roberts, speaking to NBC.

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Speaker 4: What happened the first time in London? I was so young.

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Speaker 5: Gilan woke me up in the morning and said, you're

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Speaker 5: going to meet a prince today. I didn't know at

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Speaker 5: that point that I was going to be trafficked to

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Speaker 5: that prince. And then that night Prince Andrew came to

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Speaker 5: her house in London and we went out to Club Tramp.

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Speaker 5: Prince Andrew got me alcohol. It was in the VIP section.

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Speaker 5: It was I'm pretty sure it was vodka. Prince Andrew's like,

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Speaker 5: let's dance together, and I was like okay, and we

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Speaker 5: leave Club Tramp and I hop in the car with

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Speaker 5: Gilan and Jeffrey, and Gillan said, he's coming back to

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Speaker 5: the house and I want you to do for him

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Speaker 5: what you do for Epstein.

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Speaker 1: You know, let me go to Ann Bremner, high profile

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer joining me out of Seattle and longtime friend.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you claim a lot of your clients

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Speaker 1: are innocent, and you know I disagree. But let's set

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Speaker 1: our past differences aside for just one moment, and when

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Speaker 1: you're preparing for trial and you're working with the witnesses

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Speaker 1: and you ask them to tell their story. One of

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Speaker 1: the first things I would do prepping for trial, of course,

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Speaker 1: find my witnesses, go to their home or their job

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Speaker 1: or wherever they were, and get them without me leading

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Speaker 1: them to tell me their story. And I would look

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Speaker 1: for detail. I would look for a story rich in detail.

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Speaker 1: I don't I'm a JD, not a DDS. I don't

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Speaker 1: like pulling teeth. I don't want to say, well, what

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Speaker 1: time was it, Well, who was there? Well do you

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Speaker 1: hear her unsolicited giving detail? Like we were in the

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Speaker 1: VIP section it was alcohol, I think it was vodka.

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Speaker 1: And that morning Gilan Gillen Maxwell woke me up and said,

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Speaker 1: you're going to meet a prince today. And that night,

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Speaker 1: leaving Tramp's Bar, she said, Andrew's coming to the house.

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Speaker 1: I want you to do for him what you do

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Speaker 1: for Epstein. The detail that she is providing is very persuasive.

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Speaker 1: Anne Bremner, Well, absolutely, Nancy.

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Speaker 6: That's why you have always been a great prosecutor that

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Speaker 6: you've been in, a wonderful advocate for victims. She's the

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Speaker 6: devils in the details. How can you make all those

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Speaker 6: things up? And she's detailed in recounting everything that's happened

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Speaker 6: with Prince Andrew, and she's been adamant about her facts

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Speaker 6: and details for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You know that's supported too. I'm glad you mentioned that,

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Speaker 1: Anne Bremner. Very often you will see a victim or

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Speaker 1: a witness's story differ. I didn't say change, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of times it's simply embellishing. For instance, the victim

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Speaker 1: gives or the witness gives you the story, and then

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Speaker 1: later you may say, well, wait a minute, how did

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Speaker 1: you get there? And they add, oh, I took a cab,

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Speaker 1: or I hitched a ride, or I took a bus.

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Speaker 1: So they're adding to the story, not necessarily changing their story.

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Speaker 1: But Anne's right. I don't believe Charlie Langston joining us

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Speaker 1: from dailymail dot com. I don't believe she's ever actually

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Speaker 1: changed her story. She may have added to it over time,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think she's ever changed it.

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Speaker 3: No, the story has remained incredibly consistent this entire time.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein victim Virginia Geffrey

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Speaker 1: charged by police just a few days before She says

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Speaker 1: she was on her deathbed following a bus Now, she

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Speaker 1: and her husband, Robert Jeffrey recently separated after twenty two

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Speaker 1: years of marital bliss. They no longer lived together in

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Speaker 1: their nearly two million dollar mansion at a beachside suburb

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Speaker 1: of Ocean Reef. What does all of this mean now

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Speaker 1: that six bedroom home was where the two had lived

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Speaker 1: this as Virginia's Gufrey wrote out the scandal surrounding charges

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Speaker 1: against Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell. The purchase of the home

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Speaker 1: was finalized before the matter was settled out of court

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Speaker 1: with an alleged twenty million dollar payout from the Duke

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Speaker 1: aka Prince Andrew. What a tangled web we weave when

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Speaker 1: first we practiced to deceive. Now, according to her insta

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to read it to you verbatim quote,

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Speaker 1: this year has been the worst start to a new year.

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Speaker 1: But I won't bore anyone with the details, but I

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Speaker 1: think it is I think it important to note that

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Speaker 1: when a school bus driver comes at you driving one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten km as we were slowing for a turn,

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Speaker 1: that no matter what your car is made of, it

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Speaker 1: might as well be a ten can Okay, that's a

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Speaker 1: whole other can of worms, speaking of cans to sort out.

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Speaker 1: But I'm more concerned with how, if at all, this

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Speaker 1: most recent turn of events with Virginia Jeffrey will affect

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Speaker 1: Julaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew. You know, doctor Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 1: I remember the first time I ever went with my

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Speaker 1: girlfriends to a bar, and it was first to all

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Speaker 1: go dancing. And you know, I didn't drink, didn't do drugs,

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Speaker 1: didn't smoke nothing. And I remember I remember what I

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Speaker 1: had on because I so carefully selected it, because I

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Speaker 1: had never been somewhere to a bar where people were dancing.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I don't remember the name of the place.

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Speaker 1: I remember very few people who were there, maybe one

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Speaker 1: or two. I remember general things about it, and I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking, you know, I've seen it, danced, I believe in,

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Speaker 1: and left. But I remember vague vaguely, pretty much what happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to and if someone tried to cross examine

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Speaker 1: me on it right now, they could probably do a

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Speaker 1: really good job. But this woman is giving a pretty

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Speaker 1: detailed statement, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: She's giving a detailed statement because this was a very

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Speaker 7: traumatic day in her life. We think of trauma as

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Speaker 7: a broaden the umbrella, meaning what's traumatic to you may

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Speaker 7: not be traumatic to me. But Nancy being sex trafficked

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Speaker 7: to a prince is a very traumatic event. And this

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Speaker 7: woman had already been sex trafficked to Jeffrey Epstein, so

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Speaker 7: she was collecting. She was a victim of what we

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Speaker 7: call cumulative trauma. Can you imagine being a minor having

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Speaker 7: vod conserved to you, being at this big, fancy nightclub,

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Speaker 7: having one of the princes of Great Britain come and

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Speaker 7: solicit you sexually? How can you forget any detail of

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Speaker 7: that night? And Nancy, just to go back to history

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Speaker 7: for a second, you keep saying, you know, is Prince

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Speaker 7: Andrew Prince of York? Is he a windsor A little

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Speaker 7: detail is that the royal family is actually a German gamily.

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Speaker 7: There is Germany and that did not go down so

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Speaker 7: well during World War Two, so they changed their last names.

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Speaker 7: So this is not the first time that a royal

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Speaker 7: has changing stories, changing details, whereas Virginia Jeffreys, her story

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Speaker 7: has not changed at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I take a listen to more our friends at NBC.

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Speaker 8: Virginia says the abuse moved from the bathroom to a bedroom.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't rude or anything about it.

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Speaker 5: He said, you know, thank you and some kind of

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Speaker 5: soft sentiments like that, and left.

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Speaker 4: I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that even

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Speaker 4: royalty you were involved.

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Speaker 8: She says. Prince Andrew abused her two more times, once

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Speaker 8: in New York in Epstein's mansion and again at his

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Speaker 8: Virgin Islands estate. Prince Andrew, of course, denies that this

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Speaker 8: ever happened.

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Speaker 5: He denies that it ever happened, and he's going to

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Speaker 5: keep denying that it ever happened.

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Speaker 4: But he knows the truth, and I know the truth.

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Speaker 1: Well, we were talking earlier. First of all, Jackie, did

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Speaker 1: you hear that? Did you hear that? H Doctor bethany

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Speaker 1: hold on, let me go to Charlie Likeson. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear that he said thank you after the underage sex,

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Speaker 1: which is rape?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I guess the one thing that the

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Speaker 3: royal family always hangs on to is their etiquette and manners.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, did you actually just say that? Did she

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Speaker 1: say that? Because I think she did? Okay, Charlie like, so,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you think for a moment about what

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Speaker 1: you just said. I take a listen to information we

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Speaker 1: learned from Filthy Rich on Netflix.

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Speaker 5: I first met Prince Andrew March tenth, two thousand and

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Speaker 5: one in London at Gilan's townhouse. He knock on the door.

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Speaker 5: He came inside Gilan's townhouse and we're sitting there having tea.

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Speaker 5: Gillen has his favorite guessing game that she does. She

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Speaker 5: goes to Prince Andrew, how well do you think Virginia is?

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Speaker 5: And he said seventeen And she's like, oh, you're right,

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Speaker 5: and you know, they made a little joke about it.

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Speaker 5: He's like, oh, my daughters aren't far from your age.

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Speaker 5: You know. My daughter's a little bit younger than you.

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Speaker 5: We went out the night club Tramp in London and

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Speaker 5: he dances and he's profusely sweating over me and it

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Speaker 5: was disgusting.

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Speaker 1: And let's hear some more of Virginia Roberts. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut eight.

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Speaker 5: It ended with sexual abuse and intercourse and then a

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Speaker 5: pat on the back. You've done a really good job, like,

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Speaker 5: you know, thank you very much, and here's two hundred dollars.

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Speaker 4: You know, before you know it, I'm.

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Speaker 5: Being lent out to politicians and too, academics and to

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Speaker 5: people that royalty and people that you just you would

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Speaker 5: never think like, how did you get into that position

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Speaker 5: of power in the first place if you're this disgusting, evil,

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Speaker 5: decrepit person on the inside.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to Charlie Langton joining me editor with

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Speaker 1: dailymail dot com. Did you hear the part which she

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Speaker 1: said they played a sort of guessing game with Andrew

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Speaker 1: between Gillen, Maxwell, Prince and and Virginia. Jeffrey's talking about

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Speaker 1: guess her age and there was no doubt Andrew knew

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Speaker 1: she was seventeen, according to this witness.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I think you know, one of the most

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Speaker 3: shocking things there is that, you know, according to Virginia,

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Speaker 3: he then said, oh, you're not too far off in

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Speaker 3: age from my daughter. And the ironic thing is that

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Speaker 3: when Prince Andrew has spoken out to deny all of

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Speaker 3: Virginia's claims, he actually said that he was with his

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Speaker 3: daughter at a party, you know, not too far outside

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Speaker 3: of London, when Virginia says that all of this went down. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, if we are to believe what Virginia said,

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Speaker 3: it's awful to hear that not only did he know

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Speaker 3: exactly how old she was, but that he knew that

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Speaker 3: she was around the same age as his own children,

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Speaker 3: And that is just the most horrifying thing to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that she followed up in the guessing

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Speaker 1: game with the detail that he went, oh, that's not

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Speaker 1: much older than my daughter's. Clearly, if she is to

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Speaker 1: be believed, he knew she was under age. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of the party, Prince Andrew claims he took his daughters

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Speaker 1: to instead of having underage sex, which is rape, it's

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Speaker 1: called statutory rape because if you're under age, you cannot

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Speaker 1: consent to sex in that vein. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut sixteen. This is Emily Mattlis speaking to Prince Andrew.

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Speaker 9: Listen, I have no recollection of ever meeting her. I'm

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Speaker 9: almost in fact, I'm convinced that I was never in

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Speaker 9: tramps with her.

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Speaker 10: There are a number of things that are wrong with.

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Speaker 9: That story, one of which is is that I don't

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Speaker 9: know where the bar is in tramps. I don't drink.

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Speaker 9: I don't think I've ever bought a drink in Trump

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Speaker 9: whenever I was there.

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Speaker 11: Do you remember dancing at Trump?

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Speaker 10: No, that couldn't have happened.

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Speaker 9: Because the date that's being suggested, I was at home

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Speaker 9: with the children.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so, which is at Charlie Langston with jellymail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Was he at home with his two girls, Beatrice and

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Speaker 1: Eugenie or was he at Tramp's. I thought he said

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Speaker 1: he was at a pizza party.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the story evolved to.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait Charlie, Charlie, the story evolved. It changed. That's

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Speaker 1: what evolved means it changed, That is what evolved means. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's his story now?

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Speaker 4: He's not at.

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Speaker 1: Home putting Eugenie and Beatrice to bed. What's the news story?

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Speaker 3: He said that he took his daughter to a party

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Speaker 3: at a pizza restaurant called Pizza Express in Woking, which

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Speaker 3: is in Surrey, just outside of London. However, if even

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Speaker 3: if his story is accurate, the distance between Woking and

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Speaker 3: London would actually have allowed for him to make it

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Speaker 3: back to the city in order to go to a

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Speaker 3: nightclub later that evening. So, you know, I think many people,

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Speaker 3: both critics and Royal fans alike, have agreed that that

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Speaker 3: interview that Andrew did was a car crash. We also

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Speaker 3: have to, you know, highlight the fact that he said

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Speaker 3: he was actually unable to sweat because he you know,

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Speaker 3: suffered from a kind of condition that he sustained while

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Speaker 3: he was fighting in the war.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait, why wait, wait, you're absolutely right, Charlie. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Arkat seventeen once again. This is our

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Speaker 1: friend from the BBC Emily metlist Listen.

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Speaker 11: She was very specific about that night.

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Speaker 12: She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating, and

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Speaker 12: that she went on to have bars possibly a slight.

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Speaker 10: Problem was was was was the because I.

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Speaker 9: Have a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat,

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Speaker 9: or I didn't sweat at the time, and that was Yes,

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Speaker 9: I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered

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Speaker 9: what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in

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Speaker 9: the Falklands War when I was shot at, and I

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Speaker 9: simply it was it was.

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Speaker 10: It was almost impossible for me to sweat.

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Speaker 9: And it's only because I have done a number of

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Speaker 9: things in the recent past. But I'm starting to be

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Speaker 9: able to do that again. So I'm afraid to say

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Speaker 9: that that that that there's a medical condition that says

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Speaker 9: that I didn't do it.

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Speaker 7: So therefore, can I jump in on this one?

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Speaker 1: Okay? I was just learning, so Ken he got a

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Speaker 1: shot of adrenaline and he can know what a sweat

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Speaker 1: is that even real? Definitely, where are you said, I

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Speaker 1: want to jump jump?

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Speaker 7: Well, what I can say is that he has drug

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Speaker 7: his daughter Beatrice and Eugenie into his own sexual predatory behaviors.

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Speaker 7: He's using them as shields or beards or whatever you

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Speaker 7: want to use. So not only has he violated Virginia

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Speaker 7: Jeffreys Roberts, but now he is using Beatrice and Eugenie

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Speaker 7: as witnesses. And he's gaining sympathy with the British audience

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Speaker 7: by saying he was shot at in the Falcons War

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Speaker 7: and he was so frightened and he had a shot

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Speaker 7: of adrenaline that now he can't sweat. I mean, the

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Speaker 7: whole thing. Not only is it absurd, but just let

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Speaker 7: it soak in for a moment. To use your phrase

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Speaker 7: that he is using his own minor daughters in his defense.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you said that back. Because Charlie Lanston

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Speaker 1: joining us from dellimeil dot com, I understand that either

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Speaker 1: Beatrice or Eugenie were asked about that night. Do they

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Speaker 1: confirm the pizza party?

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Speaker 3: They did not confirm it to the point where it

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Speaker 3: would be able to be used as evidence in Andrew's defense,

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Speaker 3: essentially that the girls don't have enough of a recollection

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Speaker 3: of that time to provide their father with any solid backup.

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Speaker 3: And you know, at the time they were both young girls.

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Speaker 3: I don't think if you were to ask me, I

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Speaker 3: don't think I could remember a pizza party that I

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Speaker 3: went to when I was younger. Younger were they at

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Speaker 3: the time, they would have been around early teens. I think.

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Speaker 1: Since he doesn't drive himself anywhere and he doesn't pay

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Speaker 1: for anything, wouldn't there be a record of him being

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Speaker 1: driven to this location.

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Speaker 3: He does drive himself to places. It does happen rarely,

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Speaker 3: but he does drive himself to places. However, it is

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Speaker 3: highly unlikely that he would have gone anywhere without some

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Speaker 3: form of security.

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Speaker 1: You're right. Crime stories with Nancy Grace Geffrey and her

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Speaker 1: strange husband seem to be locked in a very very

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Speaker 1: contentious tug of war over their teens son and daughter.

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Speaker 1: Just a couple of days before the bus crash, Giffrey

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Speaker 1: posted a photo of her children on a beach with

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Speaker 1: a desperate plea to see them quote, my beautiful babies

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Speaker 1: have no clue how much I love them and they're

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Speaker 1: being poisoned with lies. I miss them so very much.

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Speaker 1: I've been through helen back in my forty one years,

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Speaker 1: but this is incredibly hurting me, worse than anything else.

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Speaker 1: Hurt me, abuse me, but don't take my babies. My

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Speaker 1: heart is shattered, and every day that passes, my sadness

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Speaker 1: only deepens. In a post from the hospital just a

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Speaker 1: week later, she adds, I've gone into kidney renal failure.

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Speaker 1: They've given me four days to live, transferring me to

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Speaker 1: a specialist hospital in urology. I'm ready to go, not

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Speaker 1: until I see my babies one last time. My heart

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Speaker 1: is shattered. Every day that passes, my sadness only deepens.

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Speaker 1: Now remember Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was charged with sex trafficking

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Speaker 1: and molesting. Gioffrey accused him as well. Juline Maxwell is

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Speaker 1: sitting behind bars over the same drama. How will this

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Speaker 1: affect any of that? Take a listen to hour cut eighteen.

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Speaker 1: This is Emily Mattlis.

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Speaker 12: She was very specific. She described the dance that you

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Speaker 12: had together in tramp. She described meeting you. She was

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Speaker 12: a seventeen year old girl meeting a senior member of

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Speaker 12: the Royal family.

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Speaker 10: Never happened.

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Speaker 12: She provided a photo of the two of you together.

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Speaker 12: Your arm was around her waist. You've seen the photo,

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Speaker 12: I've seen the photon. How do you explain that?

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Speaker 10: I can't.

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Speaker 9: Because I have no Again, I have absolutely no memory

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Speaker 9: of that photograph ever being taken.

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Speaker 1: Why I can tell you this? It would be a

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Speaker 1: cold ay in hgule l if I caught my husband

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Speaker 1: David Lynch at a party without me and his arm

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Speaker 1: around a teen girl. Ah uh in oh, but listen, listen.

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Speaker 1: He has no memory of it. But then suddenly is

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Speaker 1: there a light at the end of the dull Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut nineteen?

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Speaker 11: Do you recognize yourself a little?

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Speaker 10: It is pretty difficult not to recognize yourself.

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Speaker 11: Your friend suggested that the photo is fake.

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Speaker 9: I think it's from the investigations that we've done. You

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Speaker 9: can't prove whether or not that photograph is faked or not,

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Speaker 9: because it is a photograph of a photograph of a photograph,

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Speaker 9: So it's very difficult to be able to prove it.

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Speaker 9: But I don't remember that fedure off ever being taken.

434
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 11: But it's possible that it was you with your.

435
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 10: That's me, But whether that's my hand or whether that's

436
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 10: the position. But I don't. I have simply no recollection.

437
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 1: Oh well, I guess if he doesn't remember it, Jackie,

438
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: then it must not have happened, okay. Joscott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

439
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Star

440
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: of the Piked and Massacre on iHeartRadio. I could go

441
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: on and on, but I want to get back to Andrew.

442
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Joe Scott, you know how every rape case goes,

443
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: not everyone, but many of them. First of all, it

444
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: didn't happen. I've never seen her. I don't remember her.

445
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: I never met her. Oh yeah, I remember her. Yes,

446
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: she was at a party. We met very briefly. Oh

447
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: it's my semen, you know what. It's all coming back

448
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: to me. We had sex, but it was consensual. Oh,

449
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: we're torn dress, and I don't know how that happened.

450
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: She's making the whole thing up. It's a fake. Well,

451
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: here we have a photo of his arm around her.

452
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: I think there's a drink in the other hand. I

453
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: can't remember the other hand. I'll see focused on the

454
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: hand around her waist, and I believe she's wearing a

455
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: little midgetive shirt and so it's her bear skin. How

456
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: is he going to get out of that? Joe, Scott,

457
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: you're the friends of sex.

458
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 13: I have no idea.

459
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: You know.

460
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 13: You look at this thing, and you know, you think,

461
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 13: you know. I kept waiting for him to say photoshoped.

462
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 13: Of course he didn't.

463
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: He goes, well, he doesn't know about shop.

464
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 13: Of course he doesn't. Somebody takes his photos for him.

465
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 13: And oh one other thing, by the way, is a prince.

466
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 13: If a prince shows up at Chuck e cheese, I

467
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 13: think people are going to remember, all right, you know,

468
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 13: going back to this and again it's this web that

469
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 13: he's created over these years. And I don't necessarily know

470
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 13: that it's over these years. He might be a predator

471
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 13: for all I know. But you know, he said, we

472
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 13: we've the investigation we've conducted into the photograph. Who's he

473
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 13: referring to? Does he have forensic analysts on staff that

474
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 13: are you know, really digging into this thing, digging into

475
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 13: the electronic media here trying to figure out if in

476
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 13: fact this is him. Give me a break.

477
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: Well, now it is something very critical, Scott Morgan. He

478
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: never said we've proven it so fake.

479
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, And he knows that he would be that would

480
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 13: in fact be a both face one.

481
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I think I have the answer that Andrew

482
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: is going to use to exonerate himself from this rape

483
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: charge underage sex. Take a listen to our cut twenty one.

484
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: This should just, you know, close the book on this chapter.

485
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 12: So why would somebody have put in another hand? You

486
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 12: think it is you next to her in the photo?

487
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 10: Oh, it's definitely me. That's a picture of me.

488
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 9: It's not a picture of I don't believe it's a

489
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 9: picture of me in London because when I got to

490
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 9: when I go out in London, I wear the.

491
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 10: Suits and the tie.

492
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 9: That's what I would describe as those are my traveling

493
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 9: clothes if I'm going to go, if I'm going overseas,

494
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 9: I've got plenty of photographs of me dressed in those

495
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 9: sorts of that sort of kit.

496
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: But not there, Charlie Langston, what is he talking about?

497
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 3: Effectively, he's now trying to say that if he's ever

498
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 3: in London and he's going out anywhere, he will dress

499
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: smartly in a suit, and that the outfit that he's

500
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: wearing in the image is only the kind of thing

501
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: that he would wear when he travels somewhere else and

502
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: doesn't need to look quite so official.

503
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: So how does this young girl, a very pretty articulate

504
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: teen girl, find herself in bed with Prince Andrew? According

505
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: to her, well, it all started in Palm Beach. Take

506
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut two. This is from the

507
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: BBC with Virginia Jeffreys.

508
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 5: Virginia Roberts through Epstein's Palm Beach home for the interview.

509
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 5: Gilynn walks me up the stairs and then there's this

510
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 5: naked guy laying on a massage table in the middle

511
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 5: of the room.

512
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: So although there was this naked man laying on a table,

513
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: I thought, okay, well, this is just how they do it.

514
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: I suppose.

515
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: He looked up at.

516
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 5: Glynn, so she's like, okay, here's the lotions, here's the oils.

517
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: Put your lotions and oils on your arm.

518
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 5: Always keep your hand on the person you're massaging, and

519
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 5: start with one foot and she'll get the other foot

520
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 5: and then we'll work together, so you just mimic my movements.

521
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 4: So anyways, that.

522
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: Thought went fleeting from my head like that was strange

523
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 5: because we're doing this massage now.

524
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: And there you have a teen girl around I guess fourteen,

525
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, who was confronted with a naked Jeffrey

526
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: Epstein and his pimp, Gilan Maxwell, who's now awaiting her

527
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: own trial. It's always been a he say, she say,

528
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: Jeffries versus Prince Andrew, Jeffries versus Epstein, Jeffries versus Gilan Maxwell,

529
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: until a new Bobshell is there finally a witness. Take

530
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty seven from our friends

531
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: at the BBC.

532
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 12: Epstein's housekeeper also in a Florida court legal deposition, so

533
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 12: that you visited the Palm Beach residence around four times

534
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 12: a year, You've got a daily massage.

535
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 10: Four times a year.

536
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 12: That was what he said in a Florida called legal deposition. No,

537
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 12: I'm just wondering, when you look back now, is there

538
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 12: a chance that those massages might have been the services

539
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 12: of someone who is being sexually exploited or trafficked by Epstein?

540
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 10: No?

541
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 9: I don't think, I mean, I know, definitely not, definitely not.

542
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 9: And I definitely did not visit his Palm Beach house

543
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 9: three or four times a year, absolutely not.

544
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 11: How many times would you save this that.

545
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 10: Are in total?

546
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 9: Probably four times in total throughout the time that I

547
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 9: knew him.

548
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: Do you truly likes to joining us from Daily Mail?

549
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that Prince Andrew continued his special relationship

550
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: with Perr Jeffrey Epstein even after Epstein was charged with

551
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: sex with young girls?

552
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean there are pictures of the two of

553
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: them walking together in Central Park, which you know. Andrew

554
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: then later said it was because he wanted to have

555
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 3: a face to face conversation with Epstein to tell him

556
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: that they could no longer have face to face conversations.

557
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 3: But even after all of these allegations were made against Epstein,

558
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: Andrew did not cut off contact with him. He continued

559
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: to have a relationship with him.

560
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: I want to go to you and Bremner, a high

561
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of Seattle. Now you've got a housekeeper

562
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: or an employee of Epstein's. Andrew is coming to the

563
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: Palm Beach home, the mansion of Epstein four times a year.

564
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily how many times he's been coming. It's

565
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: the thing that why was he there to start with?

566
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 6: Well, absolutely, and a cardinal rule, you know, Nancy of

567
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 6: the royal family has been never complain, never explained, and

568
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 6: yet Prince andrews now between a rock and a hard

569
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 6: place because he's been explaining and explaining, and the more

570
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 6: he explains it, the less it makes sense. But then

571
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 6: he's not cooperating where there's evidence, there's a photograph that's

572
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 6: not my hand, but that's me. You know, I've had

573
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 6: his house four times to all the young girls in

574
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 6: New York and Palm Beach were.

575
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: Quote unquote servants.

576
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 6: I don't sweat, and have all these pictures of the sweating.

577
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 6: You know that we're posted after his what they call

578
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 6: a car crash interview.

579
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: So there's a case Jeffrey Epstein, victim Virginia's Ghifrei charged

580
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: by police for apparently breaching a family violence restraining order.

581
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: Then she suffers in an alleged bus crash. How will

582
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: that affect all of the court proceedings, all of the

583
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: investigations and the allegations against Epstein, Julane Maxwell and of

584
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: course Peter Pan. Forever Prince Andrew, we wait as justice unfolds.

585
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: Maybe the only person that knows the truth is Virginia

586
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: Geffrey Will we ever know? Goodbye friend,