1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Today, we have 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: to start with a trigger warning. UM, today's episode is 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: going to be about addiction and substance abuse and how 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: they pertained to romantic relationships. So if that is a 6 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: issue that is tough for you, just know that is 7 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: what today's episode is all about. You may have seen 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: that musician Mac Miller real name Malcolm McCormick died last 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: week at the age of September seven of cardiac arrest 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: related to a suspected drug overdose. UM. I was a 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: pretty casual fan of Mac Miller's music. When he died, 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: I sort of was a bit sad because I was 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: one of those people that it took him dying for 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: me to go I can revisit some of his earlier 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: work and say, oh wow, he actually, um was a 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: really talented musician, and I wish I had listened to 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: more of this stuff. It was also pretty sad that 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: there was this really interesting, fascinating, glowing profile of him 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: in Vulture magazine that came out, like, I think, just 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: two days before he died, and in that piece, it 21 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: really illustrates what an interesting kind of guy he was. Um, 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: he sort of had this this kind of fun, loving 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: quality to him that made him seem like a genuinely 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: interesting person. When he died, all of these different musicians 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: were talking about all of these good memories that they 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: shared with him, and he just seemed like someone who 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: was genuinely very beloved. Um. One of my favorite vines 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: is him singing TLCS no scrubs. Um. I mean, he 29 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: just seemed like a like a really a really good guy. 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: And I think he's one of those musicians. And it 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: seems like he died before he really got a chance 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: to sort of show the world what he could do 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: right like he was, he was, he was pretty young. 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: He was in his twenties um, which of course is 35 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: very tragic, But he also didn't really seem to have 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: his one breakout album. He seemed like he was poised 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: for that moment where he was going to become a 38 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: megastar and sort of died right before it happened. Yeah, 39 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: I didn't know much about him, um, because I kind 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: of somehow miss a lot of Really I miss a 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: lot in this pop culture world, Bridget and I depend 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: a lot on you, and I have a group of 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: friends who like keep me in the know, and I 44 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: honestly had never heard of him until this happened, which 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: makes me really sad. And it also makes me really 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: sad that when you just see this public persona of 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: people and you don't see I don't know. It's just 48 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: strange when you hear how beloved someone is or how 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: much fun they have, and then you see the success 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: and to have something like this happen, it feels really jarring, 51 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: and it just makes you kind of reconsider maybe people 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: that you in your life or that you whose entertainment 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: you consume and enjoy. It's pretty sobering. It is sobering. 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: I also think it reminds us that these are real people. 55 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: Um it's really really easy to forget that, you know, 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: the people whose content you enjoy their humans just like us, 57 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: and it's I think it can be jarring to be 58 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: confronted with who they actually are and what they're actually 59 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: dealing with and what you know, who they are inside 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: versus the music that they make and all of that. 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: And again, I was really surprised to see how many. 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't the biggest Mac Miller fan, but I was 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: surprised to see how many of the musicians and I 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: really love like Flying Lotus and Thundercat were like no, no, 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: we were very close. He was the best, Like he 66 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: seemed like someone who had far reaching um connections in 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: the music industry, and I think that's what makes the 68 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: story so sad. Mac Miller was someone who was very 69 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: open in both his interviews and in his music about 70 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: his struggles with mental issues and addiction. In a complex 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: interview in Miller admitted to using Lean, which is sort 72 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: of that that coding laced um cough syrup that that 73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: musician sometimes abused um, and he said that he used 74 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: it to deal with depression. He explained that criticism from 75 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: an album that he had that was a little bit 76 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: of a flop in led him to rely on this 77 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: very addictive drug. In this article, he said, I love Lean, 78 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: It's great. I was not happy and I was on 79 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: Lean very heavy during the tour. I was so left 80 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: up all the time. It was bad. My friends couldn't 81 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: even look at me the same. I was lost. In May, 82 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: the rapper released his tenth solo mixtape, Faces, which by 83 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: the way, is really great. On it, he discussed his 84 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: battle with depression, explaining how quote a drug habit like 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: Philip Hoffman will probably put me in a coffin, which 86 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: is a reference to the actor of Philip Seymour Hoffman, 87 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: who I really loved, who also died a drug related death. Um. 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: Mac miller also admitted to having suicidal thoughts before releasing 89 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: this album, on which he claimed, quote every single song 90 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: is about coke in drugs. He said that was the 91 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: plan with Grand Finale, the closing song on Faces, It 92 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: was supposed to be the last song I made on Earth, 93 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: But in that interview he said, I don't feel that 94 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: way anymore. So if you don't know mac Miller, you 95 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: probably know him through his ex girlfriend, Ariana Grande. Uh. 96 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: They dated for a while, and Ariana was very very 97 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: open that their relationship ended because of his issues with 98 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: mental health and drug abuse. UM. And I think what 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: really kind of shocks me about that is that they're 100 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: very young, but their relationships seemed to be very amicable, 101 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: Like even when they broke up, she was, you know, like, oh, 102 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: I I wish him the best, and I love him. 103 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: He's one of my best friends, and I hope he 104 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: gets better. I'm so excited to see what he does 105 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: in his life. Um, she wrote on Instagram. This is 106 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: one of my best friends in the world and one 107 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: of my favorite people on the planet. I respect to 108 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: adore him endlessly and I'm grateful to have him in 109 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: my life in any form at all times from us 110 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: of how our relationship changes or what the universe holds 111 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: for each of us. And you know, I was not 112 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: having breakups and where this mature what happens in my twenties, 113 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: you know, I just I found there. I found this 114 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: to be a very for young celebrities. I found this 115 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: to be kind of surprisingly transparent and mature. Oh, I agree. 116 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: When I was fifteen, I broke up with this dude 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: in Barnes and Noble because he didn't like tigers enough. 118 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: That was it? A pretty good reason I would break 119 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: up with someone over that tigers are awesome? He I, yeah, 120 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't think he appreciated fully how awesome tigers were. 121 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: And that was it. That was the last room. Um. 122 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: When I found out about mac Miller's death, I was 123 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: with a group of friends, like five friends, and we 124 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: were all in the same space, and they knew his 125 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: music and they knew he was and they were fans, 126 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: and so when they said his name, Like, I didn't. 127 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure who it was, but from context clues 128 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: I could ascertain it was a musician. And they were, 129 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: you know, silently scrolling their phones and sad, and one 130 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: of my friends like shouted out, don't bring Ariana Grande 131 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: and it is yes, And I didn't. I didn't know 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: they were dating. Um, which is really funny because my 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: phone thinks I'm obsessed with ari Ariana Grande. It gives 134 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: me updates about her and Pete Davidson all the time. 135 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but um, yes, they were very 136 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: angry at how how quickly this turned into a blame 137 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: game with Ariana Grande. Absolutely. I sort of couldn't imagine 138 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: anything worse. Ariana Grande, she went through it. She survived 139 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: a terror attack in the UK. Um she pretty recently, 140 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: She's gone through kind of a lot. Seeing how eager 141 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: people were to bring up her name in his death, 142 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: was really surprised, perguess I shouldn't be surprised, it was. 143 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: It was disappointing, I'll put it that way. And you know, 144 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: their relationship seemed to be rocky. You know, when you're 145 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone that has these kinds of issues. 146 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: Of course, it's going to be you know, rocky, but 147 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: mac Miller's friends, his friend Shane Powers, praised Ariana Grande's 148 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: role in aiding his struggle with addiction on an episode 149 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: of the podcast The Shane Show. He said, there was 150 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: no one more ready to go to the wall with 151 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: for him when it came to being sober, and she 152 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: was an unbelievably stabilizing force in his life. She was 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: deeply helpful and effective in keeping Max sober and helping 154 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: him get sober. And she was all about him being 155 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: healthy period in this area of his life. And he 156 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: went on to say that she, you know, even after 157 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: the fact of them breaking up, was always checking in 158 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: on him and making sure that he was okay. And 159 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,359 Speaker 1: I guess that's what I'm saying, is that him being sober, 160 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: she was a big part of him getting sober. But 161 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have known Matt from the headlines, Like the 162 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: headlines that I saw after his death basically blamed her 163 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: a king up with him for him his spiral into 164 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: addiction issues. And after they broke up, Mac Miller, you know, 165 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: he was arrested for a d y. He had a 166 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: hit and run who trashed his car while drunk. He 167 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: clearly seemed to be going through some kind of issue, 168 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: but that is not Ariana Grande's fault. Like how eager 169 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: people at major publications were to link his behavior to her, like, oh, 170 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: she shouldn't have broke up with him then, like see 171 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: what happens when you written up girl breaks up with you, 172 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, if only she had stayed with them. I 173 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: found that to be not only just just just unhelpful 174 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: and hurtful, but also it completely is not how addiction works. 175 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: Someone else cannot make someone who is an addict to 176 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: get sober. I've learned that the hard way. If someone 177 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: is struggling with addiction, they only they can make themselves 178 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: get better. Yeah, you, it's just it's it's sad and 179 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: it's difficult. And just seeing how how people blamed her 180 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: king up with them for his death is it's really disheartening. Yeah, 181 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: and again we forget that Ariana Grande as a person, 182 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: she's she's not just a celebrity. And I think I 183 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: think this really does reveal um part of the toxicity 184 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: of sort of We talked about it a lot on 185 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: the show, part of the toxicity that can stem from 186 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: fan culture where you feel so like mac Miller's fans 187 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: probably felt so into him that when he died, she 188 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, and they had to be like, oh, you know, 189 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: it's her fault. After they broke up, she got into 190 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a relationship where she became engaged to s n l's 191 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: Pete Davidson and they had They went on to have 192 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: a very kind of publicly cute see lovey dovey relationship. 193 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: But again, that doesn't have anything to do with with 194 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: what happened with mac Miller. On Twitter, after mac Miller 195 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: crashed his car, one Twitter user wrote, mac Miller totaling 196 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: his g wagon and getting a d u I after 197 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: Ariana Grande dumped him for another dude after he poured 198 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: his heart out on a ten song album to her 199 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: called The Divine Feminine is just the most heartbreaking thing 200 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: that has ever happened in Hollywood. Arianta Grande was not 201 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: here for that, she replied. You know, she took to 202 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: the She took to the notes app, which is when 203 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: you know like a celebrity is really not having it 204 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: is when they reply on the notes app. He writes, 205 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: how absurd that you minimize female self respect and self 206 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: worth by saying someone should stay in a toxic relationship 207 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: because he wrote an album about them, which, by the way, 208 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: isn't even the case. Justinderella is about me. I am 209 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: not a babysitter or a mother, and no woman should 210 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: feel they need to be. I have cared for him 211 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: and tried to support his sobriety and prayed for his 212 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: balance for years and always will, of course, but shaming 213 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: blaming women for a man's inability to keep together is 214 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: a very major problem. Let's please stop doing that. Of course, 215 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: I didn't share about how scary or our heart it 216 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: was when it was happening, but it was. I will 217 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: continue to pray from the bottom of my heart that 218 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: he figures it all out, and that any other woman 219 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: in this position does as well. And she's exactly, exactly, 220 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: exactly right. I applaud her for standing up and saying 221 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: it's because she clearly loves mac Miller. It's clearly hard 222 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: for her to watch him go through this, But it 223 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: is not her responsibility to stay manicold to him for 224 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: the rest of her life to keep him sober, it says, 225 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: not her job. She's not a she's not a sober 226 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: living coach. He's not his mother, and to put this 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: on her to say, oh, well, he made an album 228 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: about you. That kind of thinking just really minimizes a 229 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: woman's agency. So because because a man writes an album 230 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: about you, you're obligated to stay with him forever. Yeah, 231 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: it's just another example of kind of like a bigger 232 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: example of um, well I bought you dinner, so you 233 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: owe me sex. It's like the same thing that it's 234 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: it's entitlement saying well, I I did this incredibly kind 235 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: thing for you, so you owe me this. And she doesn't. 236 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: She doesn't. You know. Robin Thick tried that same thing 237 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: with Paul Patton after they got divorced. He made a 238 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: whole album that was basically Paula, come back to me, 239 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: and you know what, she didn't go back then, and 240 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: she went on with her life as she should. Yes, 241 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, So let's talk more about the situation after 242 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: a quick break, and we're back. As we said earlier 243 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: in the episode, several news outlets kind of could not 244 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: wait to bring up Ariana Grande when discussing what happened 245 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: with mac Miller. I saw articles that were like Ariana 246 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: Grande x Comma Rapper Mac Miller Comma dead from apparent 247 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: drug overdose, and you know when she when he died, 248 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: her name immediately almost almost at the same time started 249 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: trending on Twitter. And so it just goes to show 250 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: how quick people are too attach. I'm not even dating anymore, 251 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: but to attach a woman to a man's behavior when 252 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: something like this happens. It's like I was listening to 253 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: the podcast Keep It, which if you don't listen to 254 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: Keep It, it's really good, you should. But we were saying, 255 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's a woman's responsibility to have a conscious 256 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: for men, because if women don't have conscious is no 257 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: one will have a conscience. It's like it's like just 258 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: assumed that, oh, if something happens with a man, it's 259 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: going to be a woman who you know, who is 260 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: at fault or to blame in some capacity. Yeah, and 261 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: that kind of reminds me of like if successes and 262 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: then men can take take responsibility for that, but failures, um, 263 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: then it's the woman, well, the woman that should have 264 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: been behind like supporting. And it reminds me of our 265 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: poor performing males video game. Yeah, hashtag pre performing males. 266 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: It's true. And again, part of it I think is 267 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: is a I can sort of forgive a nineteen year 268 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: old Mac Miller fan for this because you're young, and 269 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: lord knows, I had, you know, dumb misconceptions when I 270 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: was young. But I really, when I look at media, 271 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: I want to say, what are you do doing? Adults 272 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: who work at media companies should know better. The TMZ 273 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: article following his death basically blamed their breakup for his 274 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: spiral into addiction. They even included a line that they 275 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: edited he quote had trouble recently with substance abuse in 276 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: the wake of his breakup with Ariana Grande And that's so, 277 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: so gross, and I would expect adults who run media 278 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: companies to know better. After his death, Arianna actually had 279 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: to disable the comments on her Instagram because her Instagram 280 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: and Twitter were flooded with gross sexist comments like this 281 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: is your fault, you flag you cheated on him with 282 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: Pete Davidson. You know, I hope you're happy. And the 283 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,479 Speaker 1: saddest thing, like she posted this really really sad Instagram 284 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: picture of him where she had to have the comments disabled, 285 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: and it just made me so sad. You know, this 286 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: is someone that she clearly loved. When they split, they 287 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: had a very amicable split where and she kept saying, 288 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: because he's my best friend, I love him, I love him, 289 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, I hope he gets better. I wanted to 290 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: get better and praying for him to get better, and 291 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: not even being able to grieve in peace because people 292 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: are too busy blotting her social media with really disgusting 293 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: comment about how she's a whore who cheated on him. Yeah, 294 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: that's awful. That's to deal with that on top of 295 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: on top of your grief, I can't imagine. And to 296 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: have people I've always found people are kind of judgmental 297 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: about how you grieve and like how you perform grief. 298 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: And to have so many people on that largest scale 299 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: judging you for what you're doing or not doing, or 300 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: what is your fault, what's not your fault is that's awful. 301 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: It is awful. And again, this is someone who is young, 302 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: This is someone who would survive. I keep keep going 303 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: back to this, but who survived a very traumatic event 304 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: not that long ago, you know, a mass shooting at 305 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: one of her concerts while she was on stage. Like, 306 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I feel like we expect 307 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: celebrit ease to be these larger than life figures and 308 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: we forget that they're human, and nothings would have illustrates 309 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: that more than when they're grieving. I think that you're 310 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: exactly right, and Ariana Grande is not the first celebrity 311 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: to be treated this way at all. Rolling Stone calls 312 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: it the Yoko effect. Quote. Fan claims such as the 313 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: stem from the most dangerous branch of pop cultures, continuous 314 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: fascination with the so called Yoko effect, and it's desire 315 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: to connect female partners to actions they may not comprehend. 316 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: These claims and conspiracies, often solely perpetrated by the most 317 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: toxically masculine factions of fandoms, sometimes never disappear. Even Courtney 318 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: Love is still fielding social media comments and blog conspiracy 319 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: theories that she not only was the reason Kurt Cobain 320 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: became addicted to heroine she was not, but also that 321 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 1: she had actually murdered him and faked his suicide also untrue. 322 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: Cobain died two decades before these social media platforms even existed. 323 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: Yet the fact that Love's comments can still attract a 324 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: rogue claim like this speaks volumes the way society continues 325 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: to expect women to be caretakers for the men in 326 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: their lives and reacts with fury when they apparently cannot 327 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: absorb their partner's pain. It's so upsetting. The Courtney Love thing, 328 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: I think is an especially upsetting thing, and when I 329 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: have a lot of personal connection to is someone who 330 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: is a big fan of them. Both Courtney Love and 331 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: Francis Bean Cobain actually had to go to court with 332 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: one of these conspiracy theorists. In a Seattle court ruled 333 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: that pictures from the scene of Kurt Cobain's death would 334 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: remain sealed from the public. Conspiracy theorist Richard Lee sued 335 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: the city over the release of the images. Court documents 336 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: states that the images depict quote Kurt's body as it 337 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: lay in the family residents after he was shot in 338 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: the head. Cobain's next of kind and previously testified in 339 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: the case. In April, Seen Love gave a statement accusingly 340 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: of trying to exploit Cobain's death, which he claims to 341 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: have been investigating for more than twenty three years. Love 342 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: said that he stopped and harassed her, her family, and 343 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: her friends for many, many many years. On more than 344 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: one particular occasion. Mr Lee even filmed himself chasing a 345 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: limo for several miles that he thought she was a 346 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: passenger in Mr Lee's actions make me fear for my safety, 347 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: she said. Um, yes, Courtney love is probably one of 348 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: my biggest problematic faiths. Um, I'm a pretty big fan. 349 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: I was also a big fan of Nirvana, And I 350 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: remember I think I was in sixth grade when Kurt 351 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: Cobain died, and I definitely I was eleven or twelve, 352 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: so I was very young. But I definitely did blame 353 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: her for his death. Like I was that person who 354 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: was like, oh, Kurt, Courtney killed Kurt, and Kurt would 355 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: still be alive of Courtney if Courtney hadn't gotten involved 356 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: with him. And this was because I was young, you know, 357 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have any understanding. What was going on. 358 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: The narrative at the time with with super fans of 359 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: Nirvanna and Kurt Cobain was that Kurt Cobain was this 360 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: sort of delicate genius who was sort of too pure 361 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: for this world, and Courtney was this awful person who 362 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: was really troubled and sort of got him into all 363 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: this all these bad situations, and that I think that 364 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: myth persists today, and it's very gendered. Never mind the 365 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: fact that both Kurt and Courtney were you know, had 366 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: issues with addiction. They're both were living very similar lifestyles, 367 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: and so it's interesting that one of them gets to 368 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: be this you know, fallen angel even in death, and 369 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: the other is just sort of stuck to pick up 370 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: the pieces. And when I got it wasn't until I 371 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: got older than I realized. Wait a minute, Kurt Cobain 372 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: after his suicide, his wife, now a widow, had to 373 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: raise their kid alone and had to do it while 374 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: a lot of people were publicly and loudly speculating that 375 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: she murdered him. And that's really horrible, and you know, 376 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: we like it was one of those is one of 377 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: those things that I really it kind of forced me 378 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: to grow up because it's a very image her attitude. 379 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: That's like, oh, Courtney is so awful, and even though 380 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: she was doing the same things as she's terrible and 381 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: he's awesome, And you know, that's such an imature attitude. 382 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: It wasn' until I got older than I saw actually 383 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: she is a grieving widow who now has to raise 384 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: a child alone, and it's a bad situation. And people 385 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: who discount that are like living in a fantasy world. 386 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: They're not living in reality. It goes back to seeing 387 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: celebrities as people, as something more than this one dimensional thing. 388 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: Really this image that you you consume and then you 389 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: put all of your own stuff onto. I was I 390 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: liked Nirvana when I was younger, Um a lot too, 391 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: but I didn't know much about their personal lives because 392 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: I didn't have like TV that the first time I 393 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: heard of Courtney Love, it was with the implication that 394 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: she had killed him. That was like my first exposure 395 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: to her. There's an entire documentary about that. The premises 396 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: is that he that she had him murdered for money, 397 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 1: you know, like, like it's such a common thing. I 398 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: have to tell a quick story. I have a lot 399 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: of Courtney Love personal anecdotes. I will try to pare 400 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: it down because it will be a long podcast. But 401 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: the one that is most relevant is that I was 402 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: once at a bar and basically were like play cole 403 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: and the bartender was like, no, Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, 404 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: So my friends have a drink in his space. Good 405 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: for your friends, Yeah, shout out to Anne and wasn't 406 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: having it um No, but I think you're right. I 407 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: think it's about an inability to see celebrities as real people, 408 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: and they're just this thing that we consume and we 409 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: don't see their pain, we don't see their trauma, we 410 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: don't see their you know. And also I think it's 411 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: about addiction. It doesn't surprise me that all the people 412 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: that we're talking about today dealt with things like addiction 413 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: and depression. You know, we don't live in a country 414 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: where we're having thoughtful conversations about addiction, and it is 415 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: a problem. And I think that because of that, we're 416 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: gonna get we're getting nowhere on the issue. You know. 417 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: I think I'm happy to see that we're having a 418 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: more nuanced conversation about the opioid crisis. But frankly, the 419 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: only reason that we're doing that is because it's now 420 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: impacting White America, and that I think that's the only 421 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: reason why we're finally saying, hey, this is a problem. 422 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: We need to figure out how we're going to deal 423 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: with this because it's becoming a big issue. I'm happy 424 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: that we've that we've gotten there, but I have to 425 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: be clear on why I think it is. I think 426 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: that when opioids were impacting communities of color for so 427 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: long we just did nothing, and it was just, you know, 428 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: we were writing off entire generations of black and brown 429 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: folks and thinking nothing of it. And even with that 430 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: being the case, I'm still so happy that we're getting 431 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: to a point where we're saying, hey, we need a 432 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: more compassionate solution other than just lacking people up and 433 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: letting them die. You know. Yes, Um, I think we've 434 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: fundamentally misunderstand it addiction probably, I mean still do, but 435 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: for a long time. Um, And I'm hoping that we're 436 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: moving away from that and that we can start to 437 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: change people's perceptions around it, because I just think there 438 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: there's so much that we get wrong about addiction. And 439 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: of course, unfortunately, of course there we have another example 440 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: of Elliott Smith, where it's similar, Um, fans or people 441 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: believe that his suicide was not actually a suicide, but 442 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: that he was murdered by his girlfriend, Jennifer Chiba, following 443 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: an argument. In a statement she gave to MTV, she said, 444 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 1: although she hasn't been charged with a crimer questioned recently 445 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: by police, she feels like a suspect in the court 446 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: of public opinion quote. Up until now, I've chosen to 447 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: remain silent because I want to maintain some sense of 448 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: privacy for Elliott and his family and myself and this 449 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: really difficult time, and I want people to know that 450 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: I'm not keeping quiet because I have anything to hide. 451 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: If I was a suspect, I would have heard from 452 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: the investigators for one thing. Another is that his sister 453 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: and his parents and everyone close to him knows the truth, 454 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: so I'm not worried about it. Yeah, I loved Elliot 455 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: Smith and still do. Um that one was interesting to 456 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: me because Elliot Smith's entire uvra is about struggling with depression. 457 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: So this idea, you know, people conspiracy theorists are like, oh, 458 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: he spelled his name wrong in the suicide letter, and 459 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: they have all of these reasons why they believe he 460 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: couldn't have done it. And I also think that that 461 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: plays into this idea that we have around people who 462 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: are struggling, is that like, he couldn't have done it, 463 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have done this. There has to be some 464 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: other reason. It has to be that he was murdered, 465 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: or it was the government, or this or that. And 466 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we just don't want to accept that 467 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: someone could do this because it's so upsetting, but you know, 468 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: people do. People do, and I think that we I understand, 469 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: and the rush to say so and so would never 470 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: take the throw in life. They couldn't have done it again. 471 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: It just it just highlights me that we're not having 472 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: the right conversation when it comes to addiction and substance 473 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: abuse and mental health because you don't know what people 474 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: are dealing with. And I think that Elliott Smith's situation 475 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: really highlighted people's willingness to not confront that someone is struggling, 476 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: like his entire musical career is basically about his struggles. 477 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: I was introduced to Elliott Smith via The Royal Tin 478 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: and Bombs when a song of his is used when 479 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: one of the characters is trying to kill himself. Yeah, 480 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: needle in the hay, right, I mean he wasn't. I 481 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: don't think it should come as a massive surprise that 482 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: he would make that choice, as horrible as it is. 483 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: You know, I think that people are willing to confront 484 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: that and who are you know say that there must 485 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: be some other explanation. Are sort of and not understanding 486 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: that this person that you in whose music you enjoyed 487 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: is a flawed human being and that's okay. Yeah, um, 488 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: we we have a little bit more for you, but 489 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: we're going to pause for one more quick break for 490 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. 491 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: So this is an issue that's that's personal for me. 492 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: I have been in relationships with people who are struggling 493 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: with both addiction issues, substance abuse issues, and kind of 494 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: overall mental health issues. And in the conversations that people 495 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: were having around Ariana Grande, I just really really identified 496 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: with what they said about her and how she probably felt. 497 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I think it happens for people of all genders, right. 498 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: I think that when you are in a relationship or 499 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: a friendship or a family relationship with someone who was struggling, 500 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: there is it can be any gender who has sort 501 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: of unfairly given this burden of carrying the weight of 502 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: that person's recovery, and that's not fair. So I don't 503 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessarily a gender issue, but I 504 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: do think that as women, we are more likely to 505 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: be unfairly saddled with, you know, someone else's overall well being. 506 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: And I felt that very acutely in these relationships, you know, 507 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: I would have friends that would say things like, oh, well, 508 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, aren't you afraid if you leave them that 509 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: they'll that they'll spiral out of control, or it's so 510 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: it's so lucky they have you to keep them on track. 511 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it really made me feel like my entire 512 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: role in our relationship was to help them get sober 513 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: or help them get better. That I was only in 514 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: this relationship to be, you know, a cheerleader for that 515 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: person's recovery. And of course, when you're with someone who 516 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: has who has issues, you want them to get better. 517 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: But unless you've been in a situation, it's very hard 518 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: to describe. You basically kind of lose part of your 519 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: identity after a while, or at least I did, where 520 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: my our entire relationship functioned as a structure to help 521 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: the other person get better, and that like the only 522 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: conversations that we had were about them getting better and recovery, 523 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: and that like we weren't the kind of things, the 524 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: kind of reasons that you get into a romantic relationship for, 525 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, feeling comfort and feeling happy and feeling stable 526 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: and feeling loved and feeling you know, safe, all of that, 527 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: all of that was gone. The only thing that the 528 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: only reason that our relationship function was to help them 529 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: get better, and any other thing that you might have 530 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: wanted was completely secondary to that first thing. And I 531 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: think that it's really admirable when someone supports their partner 532 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: through something tough. But if if that is, you know, 533 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: not something that you can do, and if you are 534 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: losing yourself of the process, and if you are not happy, 535 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: and if you are being unfairly burdened, and if you're 536 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: like just if it's if it's just not something you 537 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: can do with at a certain point you're like, listen, 538 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: I'm not professional. I can do I can only do 539 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: so much as your partner. It's okay to say I 540 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: love you, but this is my boundary. And I want 541 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: to see you get better, and I hope that you 542 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: get better, and I'm praying for you, but I can't 543 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: go on like this, like I can't manacle myself to 544 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: your struggles anymore. Yeah, it's a lot of work, and 545 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: it sucks because you do feel At least when I've 546 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: been in these situations, I felt um a pressure to 547 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: stay and almost like I was failing or I wasn't 548 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: doing enough. Um, but yeah, you're not a professional, and 549 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: relationship shouldn't be one, at least in my opinion, it 550 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: shouldn't be one of permanently caretaking. Like if that's what 551 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: the relationship is, if that's what it becomes, then that 552 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: is a lot to ask of one person, and it 553 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: is for your own health. It is pretty essential that 554 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: you all that boundary and that you are able to 555 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: say I can't be this for you, like we have 556 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: to find another solution or this isn't gonna work exactly. 557 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: And I think that is what this situation shows us 558 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: is that you know, Ariana Grande is not a mental 559 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: health professional. She's got a drug counselor she couldn't Nothing 560 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: that she could do was going to help mac Miller 561 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: get better. You know, addiction is an illness, Like you 562 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: can't get someone sober for them. They have to get 563 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: themselves ober. You can support them, you can do an intervention, 564 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: you can do all of these things that might help, 565 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, they have to 566 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: get somewhere for them. They can't get clean for you. Yeah, 567 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: we need to shift the conversation so that we're talking 568 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: about addiction and um, no one is responsible for the 569 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: behavior of someone else, and it isn't anyone's job to 570 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,719 Speaker 1: fix anyone else's problems. So we need to we need 571 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: to have a paradigm shift around this whole thing exactly. 572 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: UM Promises Treatment Center had this page on their website 573 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: called three things you can and can't do to help 574 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: an addicted loved one. They make it very clear if 575 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: your loved one has an addiction, you can't make them 576 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: get better. You can stage their invention and you may 577 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: be successful, but you cannot force someone with a substance 578 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: of these problem to quit. Even in states that allow 579 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: involuntary treatment, you can't make someone gets ober. You also 580 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: can't do the work of recovery for them. Even if 581 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: a loved one goes to drug rehab, you can't do 582 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: the work of recovery for them, and you can't prevent 583 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: our relapse. And lastly, you can't accept behavior that violates 584 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: your boundaries. To avoid enabling loved ones, you have to 585 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: set boundaries. And once you've laid out your boundaries, allowing 586 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: them to be violated destroys your credibility and perpetuates your 587 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: loved ones addiction. And that's really what I have found. 588 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: I had to learn it the hard way, where when 589 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: you know someone I was close to continue to relapse, 590 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: I would I would feel like, oh God, I have 591 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: messed up, Like I let them down to the point 592 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: where we were no longer assigning agency to the person. 593 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: It was. It was just me and you know, friends 594 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: and family, but we all were doing this dance where 595 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: that person was absolved of all of their actions and 596 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: it just fell on all of us when they slipped up. 597 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: And of course if you are struggling with addiction, you 598 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: might slip up, even if even after you get sober. Um, 599 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: it just wasn't a healthy situation. And understanding that boundary 600 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: it was really important. And I'm glad that Ariana Grande, 601 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: even at such a young age, established that boundary because 602 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: she deserves to be happy. You know, you don't deserve 603 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: to have your entire life become about taking care of 604 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: somebody else is not yourself. Yeah, Um, I feel like 605 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: Ariana Grande, keep on keep on rocking. If you ever 606 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: want to be on the show, you know you know 607 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: where to find us. If this is something that you're 608 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: dealing with. Listeners, Um, we do have a number that 609 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: you can call. It's s A. M. H. S a 610 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: S National Helpline and the number is one eight hundred 611 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: six six to help, and help is four three five seven, 612 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: So that's one six six to four three five seven. Yeah. 613 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: So please, if you're if this sounds like you, if 614 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: you're struggling and you're trying to support somebody who needs 615 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: serious help, kudos. Remember that you're doing something admirable, but 616 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: there is only so much you can do, and be 617 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: gentle with yourself. And that was something else that I 618 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: found is that when someone when I was a someone 619 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: who was struggling, a lot of people were very quick 620 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: to be like, oh, how how are you? How is he? 621 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: How is he? And I don't I don't think I 622 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: got that. I don't think anyone ever talked to me 623 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: and said you're doing good, like how are you doing? 624 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: It was always how are they doing? Like? It was 625 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: always just so focused on the other person, and to 626 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: the point where I felt like my needs were just 627 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: like nothing. And so I'm here to tell you, if 628 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: you are in a position where you are providing this 629 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: kind of support for somebody, your needs are important. Don't 630 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: ignore them. Bridgets pretty wise listeners. I would heed her words. Okay, 631 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: so this is the end of this this episode, but 632 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 1: we still have listener. Maile Kaylor wrote, I've thought about 633 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: writing in after several semi recent episodes, but the episode 634 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: on women's pleasure pushed me over the edge because I 635 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: wrote an essay on that topic for reproductive health class 636 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: I took last fall. Sexual health and pleasure are probably 637 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: the feminist issues that I am most passionate about. I 638 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: do sexual health research, and I am starting a PhD 639 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: program this year so I can keep doing sexual health 640 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: research forever. It's unfair that society at large only discusses 641 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: the negatives of sexual activity. For young females, STI is pregnancy, 642 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: that your first time is supposed to hurt, that if 643 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: you have sex too soon, too much, you're a slat, 644 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: on and on and on and on. But for young 645 00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: males it's the complete opposite. You need to have sex 646 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: a lot of it to be masculine. Having sex is fun, 647 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: your pleasure matters, Masturbation is normal and okay, on and 648 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: on and on and on. This just leads to pretty 649 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: much everyone having unrealistic and unhealthy ideas about sex, and 650 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: lots of women having unfun, unhealthy, and unsafe sexual experiences. 651 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: Even further, these unhealthy ideas are forced fed to us 652 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: for so long that they become this insidious thing lurking 653 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: in our subconscious, so that even if we get woke 654 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: about the gender pleasure disparity, they can still negatively impact 655 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: our sexual experiences. Multiple times I've hooked up with a 656 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: new guy, I found myself settling for a fun but 657 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,479 Speaker 1: unsatisfying experience because I'm uncomfortable asking for what I want 658 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: and or telling the guy that I didn't orgasm and 659 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: in response to something that, if I remember correctly, bridgets 660 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: in the episode, I totally agree that mutual orgasm shouldn't 661 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: be the singular ultimate goal of having sex. As long 662 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: as it's between consenting adults, sex can be whatever people 663 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: wanted to be. Unfortunately, there's a lot more women out 664 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: there than men wanting an orgasm and not getting one, 665 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,439 Speaker 1: which really sucks. I guess I'll end my rent there 666 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: and try to coherently sum up my thoughts into something 667 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: resembling a thesis. There's a long way to go before 668 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: we'll reach true gender parity, but I firmly believe that 669 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: once women everywhere can appreciate and take charge of their 670 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: own sexuality and pleasure, we will be one huge step closer, 671 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: agreed Kayla and Uum. She attached her essay and it 672 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: was great and I loved it. I love that you're 673 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: devoting like your PhD to this is so fantastic. Yeah, kudos, 674 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: thank you for writing in. Julie writes, I have been 675 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: going through the archive and about a year ago, I 676 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: listened to the episode Surfer Girls. I was inspired by 677 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: this episode to use surfing as another way to dismantle 678 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: the patriarchy by entering into another arena where it often 679 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: feels like a boys club. I did not really know 680 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: how to swim, but this spring I signed up for 681 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: an all women's surfing camp and I spent two months 682 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: learning how to swim and becoming proficient at it. I 683 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: am happy to report that I've spent the last two 684 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: months surfing in Portugal and Hawaii, feelings somewhat comfortable in 685 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: the water and in the lineup. When asked at surf 686 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: camp why I came, I explained that I listened to 687 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: a podcast about how surfing was originally a support of equality, 688 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: and I am trying to contribute to the movement to 689 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: bring it back to that place. Every time a freezing 690 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: wave Portugal is not that warm, but hit me in 691 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: the face and pushed me back to the shore. I 692 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: would shout you patriarchy and dive back in, Julie, this 693 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: makes me so happy. This is speaking to my soul. Um. 694 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: I also did a surf camp. It was amazing. I 695 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: wasn't the best at it, and I'm I like to swim, 696 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: but I'm not the strongest swimmer, and it does I 697 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: mean learning about the history of surfing. It was a 698 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: support of equality and if you are all interested in surving, 699 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: you should do it it. I will say it is 700 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: a frustrating sport. And then at least for me, I 701 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: spent hours and hours and hours surfing to have five 702 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: glorious minutes standing up on the board, and when I 703 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: finally did it, it was beautiful and wonderful. But it 704 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: is so fun and it's very freeing. And I'm so glad, 705 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: Julie that you wrote in. I hope I see you 706 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: out on the beach sometime, and I hope that we 707 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: can the patriarchy via surfing together. I love it. I 708 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: love it. Thanks to both of them for writing in. 709 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to as you can, 710 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: our email is mom Stuff at Housta works dot com, 711 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: and you can find us on the social media is 712 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: or on Instagram Stuff I've Never Told You, and on 713 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. And thanks as always for 714 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 1: our producer Andrew Howard