Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 2: More just absolute horrific atrocities to your point about we
Speaker 2: can put these images that prepare yourself because this is
Speaker 2: just unbelievable. This is a young girl who is wandering
Speaker 2: through the flames on the wreckage after a school turned
Speaker 2: shelter was bombed by Israel in a mass casualty murder
Speaker 2: slaughterhouse event in Gaza. Dozens were killed in this school strike.
Speaker 2: I believe thirty six were killed here and at least
Speaker 2: fifty two people overall in the Gaza strip were killed
Speaker 2: on Monday alone, just on Monday. You can see people
Speaker 2: grabbing buckets of water here and trying to put out
Speaker 2: the flames. I will tell you that little girl did escape.
Speaker 2: I saw on an interview with her she escaped, but
Speaker 2: her mom and all of her sisters, I think five
Speaker 2: sisters were killed and her dad is in the ICU.
Speaker 2: So that's the fallout of just this one horrific strike
Speaker 2: on the school turned shelter. At the same time, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've watched, Emma, some of the coverage
Speaker 2: of tree yngst Over on Fox News, which appears to
Speaker 2: be he's he's always been a little bit critical, and
Speaker 2: he's been very courageous in speaking out on behalf of
Speaker 2: Palestinian journalists, which I've really appreciated. But he's now produced
Speaker 2: multiple reports on of Gaza that are quite searing and
Speaker 2: you know, quite significant given the audience that they are
Speaker 2: going out to there. On Fox News, he in particular
Speaker 2: did a piece on this uh doctor, female doctor whose
Speaker 2: children were all except one and there were nine of
Speaker 2: them who were killed in an airstrike. And you know,
Speaker 2: so he brought this piece to the Fox News audience.
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little
Speaker 2: bit of that.
Speaker 3: Inside Gaza, the death toll is mounting. Over the weekend,
Speaker 3: a single Israeli strike killed nine children from the Almazard family.
Speaker 3: New video shows first responders at the sight of the
Speaker 3: strike in the city of han Yunis. Many of the
Speaker 3: images too graphic to show. As the charred bodies of
Speaker 3: young Palestinians are pulled from the rubble at Naser Hospital,
Speaker 3: their mother, a doctor, received the remains, identifying each child.
Speaker 4: As she wept, she said, this is rival. Give her
Speaker 4: to me. Look at her instinct as a mother, as
Speaker 4: if her daughter was still alive. She asked to hold
Speaker 4: her in her arms. She's a pediatrician. See the subconscious reaction.
Speaker 4: She wanted to embrace her daughter, forgetting that her daughter
Speaker 4: was burnt in front of her eyes.
Speaker 3: With the war grinding on, we do know mediators in
Speaker 3: both Doha and Cairo are going to still try and
Speaker 3: reach a ceasefire agreement, but with those ground operations ongoing,
Speaker 3: it may be difficult.
Speaker 2: It's just absolutely unimaginable, Like it's literally unimaginable. You're there
Speaker 2: at a hospital trying to do your job, and the
Speaker 2: bodies of your nine children are brought to you and
Speaker 2: her one remaining child, a son is in serious condition
Speaker 2: after the strike.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's unimaginable. Credit to Yins, who's done other good
Speaker 5: segments over at Fox. I think we played one where
Speaker 5: that covered the killing of the medical personnel by Israel,
Speaker 5: that's right, right, which was when there were i think
Speaker 5: over a dozen first responders who were zip tied hands
Speaker 5: behind their back and basically shot and then covered in
Speaker 5: mass graves and the Israelis initially tried to deny it.
Speaker 5: Then there was footage that came out that Yanks put
Speaker 5: to the four in that in that report, which contradicted
Speaker 5: it as to other outlets. And I mean, it's it's
Speaker 5: amazing to me that they even kind of bother with
Speaker 5: the excuses at this point, right, they've almost moved away
Speaker 5: from it entirely, Like you have Bengevier basically openly saying,
Speaker 5: we're targeting civilians. This is the purpose of what we're
Speaker 5: doing here.
Speaker 6: It it. These are the.
Speaker 5: Kinds of things that it's just a new atrossity every day,
Speaker 5: and and last week I'm sure you covered this a
Speaker 5: little bit too, Crystal, the reaction to Miss Rachel having
Speaker 5: that that girl with that double amputeue girl on her
Speaker 5: show and showing yeah uh rah, showing her the joy
Speaker 5: that she had on her face when Miss Rachel was
Speaker 5: singing and she got to meet her in person. Was
Speaker 5: so deeply moving to me and heartbreaking because you see
Speaker 5: that little girl engulfed in fire. Thankfully she's okay, but
Speaker 5: her whole family is dead, and you think about the
Speaker 5: level of trauma that that child has to endure. And
Speaker 5: then you see that video with Miss Rachel and how
Speaker 5: that for a moment she smiles and laughs even though
Speaker 5: she can't really stand up anymore because she's still getting
Speaker 5: used to her prosthetic legs. How many tens of thousands
Speaker 5: of Palestinian children who don't know any better or their
Speaker 5: lives are being completely destroyed, whether it be by trauma
Speaker 5: or whether it be by maiming, because this genocide can
Speaker 5: continues unabated, and because the United States is complicit in it.
Speaker 5: And so back to the Trump policy on this, Yes,
Speaker 5: I'm happy that they had been speaking directly to Hamas
Speaker 5: and they got and they conducted these negotiations around the Israelis.
Speaker 5: But does that mean that they're also going to restrict
Speaker 5: arms to Israel. We have not seen that happen, and
Speaker 5: that is the number one thing that needs to happen
Speaker 5: to stop this slaughter. We had this under the Biden administration,
Speaker 5: we have to say it under the Trump administration.
Speaker 2: That's right, and we can put D four up on
Speaker 2: the screen. To your point, Emma, that you know there
Speaker 2: was direct talks between US delegation and Tamas, Jeremy Scale
Speaker 2: and Dropsite. I really could cannot recommend their reporting more.
Speaker 2: They're always ahead and always more accurate than the mainstream sources.
Speaker 7: And basically the tld R here.
Speaker 2: Is that Hamas and US had some level of under
Speaker 2: standing agreement on a ceasefire deal, and then Israel came
Speaker 2: in and said no, and you know, they don't want
Speaker 2: the word to end. And then rather than the Trump
Speaker 2: administration calling out Israel as the obstacle to some sort
Speaker 2: of a ceasefire deal here, instead they threw Hamas. You know,
Speaker 2: they said Hamas was the obstacle and took Israel side
Speaker 2: once again. So it's like, okay, well, then, you know,
Speaker 2: we're just seeing the same patterns play out as we
Speaker 2: did under the Biden administration of these secret leaks about
Speaker 2: oh they're really frustrated and oh we had a tough
Speaker 2: conversation with bb and oh they're really upset blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and oh Trump wants the word to end. If you
Speaker 2: are still sending the bombs, you don't want the war
Speaker 2: to end. It's really that simple. Like, until I see
Speaker 2: you say and do okay, we're cutting off all weapons,
Speaker 2: we are not supporting and funding this anymore. And by
Speaker 2: the way, if an American president, whether it was Biden
Speaker 2: or now Trump called bebe and said we're cutting off
Speaker 2: the weapons, that's it. You're done. Guess what they would
Speaker 2: be done. Yes, we do have that level of power
Speaker 2: and control. That is the reality of the situation. And
Speaker 2: so until that happens, then we are still funding, supporting,
Speaker 2: providing diplomatic cover for the most horrific atrocity of our time.
Speaker 2: And it's not even close. I mean this, it truly is.
Speaker 2: It's a moral issue of our time. And you're right
Speaker 2: at this point, if like, if you are an American
Speaker 2: taxpayers even semi aware of what's going on, and you
Speaker 2: aren't thinking about this every day and speaking so doing
Speaker 2: something like it's it is a moral failing at this point.
Speaker 2: It is a moral failing at this point given the children.
Speaker 2: Just thinking about the children alone, that have been murdered, starved, bombed, amputees, maimed, traumatized.
Speaker 2: None of these kids will ever be the same after
Speaker 2: living through this.
Speaker 5: And and there's been polling that has showed this overwhelming
Speaker 5: majority of Israelis support Donald Trump's plant to purely ethnically
Speaker 5: cleanse the Gaza strip and move the However, many Palestinians remain.
Speaker 5: You know, you hear Trump and other people kind of
Speaker 5: sometimes slip up and say figures that indicate what is
Speaker 5: likely that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have actually been killed.
Speaker 5: The figure that's being circulated in the mainstream press, I
Speaker 5: think almost borders on lies and misinformation, So I don't
Speaker 5: even like to use it because of how inadequate it is.
Speaker 5: But you when you see that kind of polling, this
Speaker 5: is just an indication that this is not going to
Speaker 5: come from inside Israel.
Speaker 7: This has to be like in South Africa.
Speaker 2: Sorry, it has to be imposed by imposed exactly I mean,
Speaker 2: and it's more an even more extreme situation, given the
Speaker 2: level of slaughter of the genocide that we're seeing that
Speaker 2: in South Africa, it has to be imposed upon them
Speaker 2: by the international community.
Speaker 5: And right now the world's superpower a waning one is
Speaker 5: decided that the best opportunity for us to hold our
Speaker 5: grip on power is to maintain our dominant military presence
Speaker 5: via hard power in the Middle East because we're concerned
Speaker 5: about China, China's incursion into that area and its increasing
Speaker 5: sphere of influence. But they're doing it by things like, okay,
Speaker 5: helping build infrastructure in the continent of Africa, or by
Speaker 5: negotiating setting up a brokering a deal between Iran and
Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia to stop the blockade and slaughter in Yemen,
Speaker 5: which I still think gets not discussed enough because that
Speaker 5: was actually a positive diplomatic negotiation that was brokered by
Speaker 5: China around the United States, and so the US is
Speaker 5: most That's how I think foreign policy has to be
Speaker 5: viewed in the Middle East right now, which is they're
Speaker 5: trying to create a bulwark against China, and they're doing
Speaker 5: it by supporting a wholesale slaughter of an indigenous population.
Speaker 2: I'm a vigilant. Thank you so much for hanging out
Speaker 2: with me this morning. It's always a pleasure to see
Speaker 2: you and hear you're really so much Crystal. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: tell anything you want to plug, Tell people where they
Speaker 2: can go and watch the show and all that good stuff.
Speaker 5: Sure, I'm the co host of a show called The
Speaker 5: Majority Report. We're live every weekday noon Eastern. You can
Speaker 5: find us on the Majority Report YouTube dot com, slash
Speaker 5: sam Cedar and check us out today if you have
Speaker 5: the time.
Speaker 7: I'm there.
Speaker 2: Just mentioned the extremism that has become pervasive throughout Israeli society,
Speaker 2: and I've got two particular examples. I'm also going to
Speaker 2: show you the poll that she referenced as well of
Speaker 2: where you might see just outright genocidal sentiments expressed. We
Speaker 2: have a woman here speaking about how you must destroy
Speaker 2: the offspring of Palestinians, and you also have a mob
Speaker 2: of a thousand far right Israeli's storming through Jerusalem channing
Speaker 2: death to Arabs and also so harassing and assaulting any
Speaker 2: random Palestinians that they happen to encounter.
Speaker 7: Let's go ahead and take a look at both of
Speaker 7: those things.
Speaker 8: When there is a war, it doesn't matter who your
Speaker 8: enemy is, you need to destroy their offspring to prevent
Speaker 8: them from creating more offspring.
Speaker 2: And by the way, that is an annual event. The
Speaker 2: racist mob, violent assault march through Jerusalem and you know,
Speaker 2: maybe you think, oh, maybe these are just the maybe
Speaker 2: this is just the fringe of Israeli society. First of all,
Speaker 2: note whether you saw any Israeli politicians condemning these genocidal
Speaker 2: chants and violent actions. Second of all, take a look
Speaker 2: at this poll that just came out asking Israelis, specifically
Speaker 2: Israeli Jews, how they feel about various actions views of
Speaker 2: the Palestine. So you've got eighty two percent, according to
Speaker 2: this Penn State University poll, eighty two percent who support
Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing of Gozzens.
Speaker 7: That would be the.
Speaker 2: Trump plan, solid majority. Fifty six percent support ethnic cleansing
Speaker 2: of what they call Israeli Arabs, which are Palestinians who
Speaker 2: live within Israel, and nearly half forty seven percent support
Speaker 2: killing all Gosens in cities captured by the IDF. So
Speaker 2: when Emma was saying, you know, this is not going
Speaker 2: to come organically from within Israel, even though I really
Speaker 2: want to praise, you know, there were some brave Israelis
Speaker 2: who were putting themselves between the racist mob in Jerusalem
Speaker 2: and Palestinians. There was also a march that said Palestinian
Speaker 2: lives matter. Recently to the Gaza border. I want to
Speaker 2: praise those courageous individuals, but we have to acknowledge that
Speaker 2: the majority of this society, majority of the citizens, especially
Speaker 2: Israeli Jews, of this society, have been gripped by a
Speaker 2: you know, genocidal fever. And the only way this war
Speaker 2: comes to an end is from the US taking action
Speaker 2: and imposing some sort of peace and ultimately some sort
Speaker 2: of political settlement, you know, on Israelis and you know,
Speaker 2: to uphold the rights of Palestinians. Could put this next
Speaker 2: piece up on the screen. There have been some indications
Speaker 2: that most of the world is starting to realize the
Speaker 2: way that the genocide in Gaza is going to be
Speaker 2: viewed by history. And this came from a very surprising place.
Speaker 2: So the Israeli has been trying to push forward this
Speaker 2: quote unquote AID plan, which effectively amounts to using AID
Speaker 2: as a lure to bait people to be ethnically cleansed
Speaker 2: down of certain areas of Gaza, forced them to travel
Speaker 2: to be able to avoid starvation, and then close the
Speaker 2: door behind them. That the way Jeremy Scahill was describing it.
Speaker 2: And they hired to implement this AID plan. They hired
Speaker 2: this group of American mercenaries and set up this what's
Speaker 2: called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. By the way, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of sketchiness going on of where the funding's coming from.
Speaker 2: Drop Site is doing some reporting on that as well.
Speaker 2: But this guy, Jake Wood, who is this you know,
Speaker 2: ex military effectively like mercenary, who was hired to run
Speaker 2: this quote unquote aid effort. He has resigned as executive
Speaker 2: director of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Israeli planned for aid
Speaker 2: distribution in Gaza that bypasses established NGO and UN channels
Speaker 2: Corneia drop Site quote. Wood sites an inability to implement
Speaker 2: an independent aid delivery plan without violating core humanitarian principles
Speaker 2: as the reason for his departure. In a statement shared
Speaker 2: by CNN's Jeremy Diamond, Wood said he was horrified and
Speaker 2: heartbroken by the hunger crisis in Gaza and had sought
Speaker 2: to build a neutral, secure mechanism to get food to civilians,
Speaker 2: but he concluded could not maintain humanity, neutrality, impartiality and
Speaker 2: independence under current conditions. He urged Israel to significantly expand
Speaker 2: the provision of aid into Gaza through all mechanisms, and
Speaker 2: urged all stakeholders to pursue innovative new methods for the
Speaker 2: delivery of aid without delay, diversion, or discrimination. So their
Speaker 2: plan was so unethical that even this American private military
Speaker 2: contractor mercenary guy was like, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: associated with this and resigned as executive director. Now the
Speaker 2: foundation still exists. Someone else took his slot. They are
Speaker 2: still moving forward at last. I saw to you, by
Speaker 2: the way, it doesn't look like aid trucks are getting
Speaker 2: into Gaza at all. People are still starving to death.
Speaker 2: The images of emaciated children at the hospital are absolutely horrifying.
Speaker 2: We know that dozens have already died of hunger starvation
Speaker 2: because of this. And you know this is the that
Speaker 2: they're moving forward with, is using food as a weapon
Speaker 2: of war to effectuate their ultimate plan of ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 2: Here's another very noteworthy person who is objecting to the
Speaker 2: war crimes that are being committed by Israel. So Ahud Olmer,
Speaker 2: who is a former Israeli Prime minister, put this next
Speaker 2: one up on the screen. He wrote a not ed
Speaker 2: accusing Israel war crimes, saying, in part, what we are
Speaker 2: doing in Gaza is a war of extermination, indiscriminate, unrestrained,
Speaker 2: brutal and criminal killing of civilians, a policy dictated knowingly, intentionally, viciously,
Speaker 2: and maliciously by the government. Yes, we are committing war crimes.
Speaker 2: And you know this guy is a war criminal himself.
Speaker 2: By the way, he was Israeli Prime minister during brutal
Speaker 2: Operation cast Led.
Speaker 7: So this is no like lib hippie squish.
Speaker 2: This is also a war criminal who even for him,
Speaker 2: he's like, Okay, this is just undeniable that It's not
Speaker 2: a few rogue actions taken by undisciplined I don't know
Speaker 2: if you guys remember at the beginning of Israel's assault
Speaker 2: on Gaza, we were told, oh, these are just rogue
Speaker 2: actions here or there if guidelines aren't followed, these soldiers
Speaker 2: are just being undisciplined. And there was all sort of
Speaker 2: media commentary of like, when are they going to tell
Speaker 2: that take the phones and make sure they stop posting
Speaker 2: these things on Instagram. No, this is not rogue actions
Speaker 2: of this or that idea of soldier. This is a
Speaker 2: government policy of extermination and war crimes. And even a
Speaker 2: former Israeli Prime minister can no longer deny that fact.
Speaker 2: This one is also wild to put this last one
Speaker 2: up on the screen. So the Chancellor of Germany mers
Speaker 2: blast Israeli offensive in Gaza. Frankly speaking, I no longer
Speaker 2: understand what the goal of the Israeli army in the
Speaker 2: Gaza strip is, he said in an interview aired on
Speaker 2: public television. To harm the civilian population to such an extent,
Speaker 2: as has increasingly been the case in recent days, can
Speaker 2: no longer be justified as a fight against Haman's terrorism.
Speaker 2: So if you have been tracking any of the actions
Speaker 2: of Germany, they have been brutal and crushing any sort
Speaker 2: of pro Palestinian descent within their own country. Germany, because
Speaker 2: of their own history of perpetrating the Holocaust self agenocide
Speaker 2: against Jewish people, has been you know, steadfast and wanting
Speaker 2: to always back up Israel as a sort of atonement.
Speaker 2: The irony of course now being that Israel is committing
Speaker 2: a genocide. So if you want to say never again,
Speaker 2: that should obviously apply to any group of people, even
Speaker 2: an ethnic group that was previously themselves subject to the
Speaker 2: most horrific and barbaric, you know, mass killing that you
Speaker 2: can possibly imagine. So when even Germany, when even the
Speaker 2: German Chancellor feels the need to come out and say,
Speaker 2: you know what this is, This is too far even
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 7: That is really pretty wild.
Speaker 2: And we've covered before some of the statements from Canada,
Speaker 2: from the EU. You know, there seems from Pierce Morgan,
Speaker 2: from Theofan, there seems to have been a sort of
Speaker 2: damn that was broken with regard to I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: with regard to an increase in morality, but I think
Speaker 2: it's just become undeniable when you see these you know,
Speaker 2: this collective starvation, when you see the bombing of the rubble,
Speaker 2: when you hear Israeli politicians just go completely mask off
Speaker 2: and say, yeah, we you know they're doing my plan
Speaker 2: Nowrich says, of bombing civilian infrastructure. When you hear them
Speaker 2: talking openly about ethnic cleansing, When you hear them saying
Speaker 2: openly Smotrich in particular saying openly and not Yahoo as well,
Speaker 2: that the AID is just a cover to allow them
Speaker 2: to continue their total war and their plans to forcibly
Speaker 2: relocate the population, it becomes undeniable what the judgment of
Speaker 2: history is ultimately going to be.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: The question, of course, the only question that really matters
Speaker 2: isn't whether these people will be able to like cover
Speaker 2: their asses in the judgment of history or not. The
Speaker 2: only question that really matters is whether or not lives
Speaker 2: are going to be saved, whether or not there's going
Speaker 2: to be some sort of ceasefire and political solution that
Speaker 2: ends the slaughter and the abuse of Palestinian people. And unfortunately,
Speaker 2: really only the US president can effectuate that outcome at
Speaker 2: this point, and what we've seen from Trump has been
Speaker 2: really a continuation of the Biden bb Bear hug strategy,
Speaker 2: where occasionally he'll say, oh, you know, oh I'm frustrated
Speaker 2: to axios is Barock revied, but you know, they still
Speaker 2: ship the weapons, they still provide the diplomatic cover, they
Speaker 2: still use this, you know, this onslaught as well as
Speaker 2: a justification for stripping our own rights here in the US.
Speaker 2: We haven't seen anything recently that would be encouraging from
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. So even as the DAN late breaks worldwide,
Speaker 2: and even as I feel confident that in the history
Speaker 2: books when people look back, they'll be horrified.
Speaker 7: That this wasn't stopped.
Speaker 2: They will want to know who said what and who
Speaker 2: provided the you know, the propaganda cover for these crimes
Speaker 2: to be committed. Out in the open, announced to the world,
Speaker 2: justified and celebrated by many publicly, with all of the
Speaker 2: means and the methods you know described. Even though I
Speaker 2: feel confident that will be the judgment of history, it
Speaker 2: remains to be seen how many Palestinian lives can be
Speaker 2: saved before that ultimate judgment occurs. All right, guys, the
Speaker 2: great guests coming up. I'm really looking forward to speaking
Speaker 2: with Aaron Bassani, who wrote a book called Fully Automated
Speaker 2: Luxury Communism, which is very mind expanding, is very like
Speaker 2: it's this sort of techno optimist take from the left
Speaker 2: on the possibilities of AI. If we had a society
Speaker 2: structure to make sure that the benefits of not just
Speaker 2: AI but all sort of like bleeding edge technological developments,
Speaker 2: if those benefits were actually widely shared. Of course, we
Speaker 2: know we don't live in that society. So I wanted
Speaker 2: to talk to Erin about what he makes of some
Speaker 2: of the latest AI developments.
Speaker 7: Let's go ahead and get to that.
Speaker 2: There have been a bunch of wild developments in AI technology,
Speaker 2: which seems to be moving extremely rapidly, even more rapidly
Speaker 2: than some of the most optimistic prognosticators had anticipated, and
Speaker 2: so to break down what this means for the world
Speaker 2: going forward. We're lucky to be joined by Aaron Bassani,
Speaker 2: who's the co founder of Navara Media and wrote an
Speaker 2: excellent book that I really recommend to everyone. Put this
Speaker 2: up on the screen titled Fully Automated Luxury Communism. Erin
Speaker 2: great to have you.
Speaker 6: It's a pleasure to be with you, Crystal.
Speaker 2: So the reason I wanted to talk to you is
Speaker 2: because I told you i'd read your book before, and
Speaker 2: I just reread it now because it felt timely inappropriate
Speaker 2: given the AI shift, And it really takes a sort
Speaker 2: of lefty techno optimist perspective arguing effectively that these technologies
Speaker 2: can be used to transform all of our lives in
Speaker 2: a way that is fully positive and to use, you know,
Speaker 2: a term that used in the book and the resultso
Speaker 2: apparently the term of the moment can create abundance for
Speaker 2: really everyone and completely transform the way that we relate
Speaker 2: to work and undermine the power of these capitalists, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But obviously that would require a dramatic rethinking of the
Speaker 2: current social contract, and so I just wanted to get
Speaker 2: some of your thoughts on you know how you're viewing
Speaker 2: this rapid AI development, you think it's a hopeful sign
Speaker 2: or are you concerned? You know, as many people are
Speaker 2: that as we're sort of barreling towards the possible cliff
Speaker 2: of AGI and you know, workforce displacement, et cetera, we
Speaker 2: really haven't grappled, either in the UK or here in
Speaker 2: the US with the consequences and what the following is
Speaker 2: going to be in the way we need to radically
Speaker 2: reorient our societies if this is going to be beneficial
Speaker 2: for all but a small handful of people.
Speaker 9: So I'll start there with your final point in there, Crystal,
Speaker 9: which is that right now where we're headed in terms
Speaker 9: of trajectory is a very good place to be for
Speaker 9: a tiny portion of people, the best part of a
Speaker 9: decade ago now. Mark Cuban, of course, own of the
Speaker 9: Dallas Mavericks, a dude on sharks, and I think your
Speaker 9: version of dragons don over there in the States.
Speaker 6: He speculates that the world's first.
Speaker 9: Trillionaire would be in the field of artificial intelligence, as
Speaker 9: it captures value across white collar industries like accountancy, legal services,
Speaker 9: medical services, all kinds of support work in things like planning, architecture,
Speaker 9: database management, payroll, everything everything that you know we would hold.
Speaker 9: If you study hard, go at university and get a
Speaker 9: decent degree, you'll have a stable job in that industry.
Speaker 9: Mark Cuban said, all that value is going to be
Speaker 9: captured by AI. First people there with first move advantage,
Speaker 9: the meta, the alphabet of AI is going to get
Speaker 9: all that and those people, the Zuckerberg's and the Bezelses
Speaker 9: of the industry will be trillion as there's a reason
Speaker 9: why there's a ton of people in this race right now.
Speaker 9: So that's where we could be headed. A few things
Speaker 9: that are going back to what you started with and
Speaker 9: things I got wrong. Firstly, remember this book I think
Speaker 9: was published in twenty eighteen in England. I was writing
Speaker 9: it really from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen. I did
Speaker 9: not think we would be where we are now.
Speaker 6: You had the.
Speaker 7: Research or AI of technological changes.
Speaker 6: One.
Speaker 9: I didn't think that now, and that's with regards to
Speaker 9: things like machine learning, the stuff you're seeing with generators
Speaker 9: of AI. It's also the case with the human like
Speaker 9: robots you're now seeing, particularly in places like China. I
Speaker 9: also I didn't think that China's electric vehicle industry would
Speaker 9: be anything like as powerful as it is.
Speaker 6: Obviously, the book isn't just about AI and robotics.
Speaker 9: It's about renewable energy, it's about you know, offworld asteroid mining,
Speaker 9: et cetera, et cetera. Pretty much on every account, I
Speaker 9: didn't expect us to be this far advanced. And so
Speaker 9: those questions that I raised in the book are actually
Speaker 9: far more salient in twenty twenty five than I thought
Speaker 9: they would be. Finally, and it's against something I overlooked.
Speaker 9: I kind of regret overlooking it is the role played
Speaker 9: Crystal of geopolitics and great power politics. This rivalry between
Speaker 9: the US and China is clearly what is going to
Speaker 9: drive forward.
Speaker 6: AI technological change.
Speaker 9: It's one of the reasons now being given by people
Speaker 9: as why we shouldn't have guardrails. If the US has guardrails, well,
Speaker 9: then China's going to develop something really powerful and leave
Speaker 9: us behind, you know. And the exact same conversations are
Speaker 9: happening in China. So lots of big questions, and you know,
Speaker 9: I thought we would have maybe twenty twenty five years
Speaker 9: before they were relevant. But I think before the end
Speaker 9: of this decade, Crystal, there's stuff that the left progressives. Basically,
Speaker 9: anybody who cares about the future society needs to get
Speaker 9: on top of not just intellectually, but actually with a
Speaker 9: policy response.
Speaker 2: So let's take a look at some of the indications
Speaker 2: of that rapid development. Focusing in sort of on AI.
Speaker 2: There have been a bunch of these. There's a new
Speaker 2: product down I don't remember what it's called that would
Speaker 2: have been helpful, but it allows you to create these
Speaker 2: video clips with simple prompts that are indistinguishable from reality,
Speaker 2: and people have been sharing these around these like fake
Speaker 2: newscaster clips. Let's go ahead and take a look at
Speaker 2: a couple of those.
Speaker 6: In shocking news, JK.
Speaker 3: Rowling's yacht sank with her on board after being attacked
Speaker 3: by orcas off the coast of Turkey.
Speaker 8: Breaking news, a Scottish fold cat named Big White has
Speaker 8: led an army of felines to seize Buckingham Palace, declaring
Speaker 8: itself the new King of Britain.
Speaker 2: Those are shockingly realistic, even if the content is a
Speaker 2: little preposterous. You also have a couple of troubling indications,
Speaker 2: and there's been research to this effect already that some
Speaker 2: of these chatbots already engage in scheming to try to
Speaker 2: avoid having their priorities changed or of shutting down. There
Speaker 2: was this bizarre situation I'm sure you followed with GROCK
Speaker 2: deciding to talk all about South Africa and white quote
Speaker 2: unquote white genocide and kill the boar, which was in
Speaker 2: some ways, you know, different from what it's humans. In
Speaker 2: some ways it was consistent with what the humans wanted
Speaker 2: it to do, but it was in some ways different
Speaker 2: as well. We can put the E three up on
Speaker 2: the screen chat GPT ignored an explicit instruction to switch
Speaker 2: off in some tests that we're being run. We can
Speaker 2: put the next one up on the screen, which is
Speaker 2: really wild. There was a test that was done with
Speaker 2: the Amazon backed AI model where it, in order to
Speaker 2: again avoid being shut down, it tried to blackmail an
Speaker 2: engineer about not a real affair, but they'd given it
Speaker 2: access to these emails that indicated that an engineer was
Speaker 2: having an affair and tried to blackmail this person with
Speaker 2: the affair to try to keep from getting shut down.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny, but it's also terrifying because we're
Speaker 2: only at this level of development.
Speaker 7: It makes you wonder.
Speaker 2: It seems like already humans don't have total control over
Speaker 2: these things. It makes you wonder when we get to
Speaker 2: that next stage of development, you know how sort of
Speaker 2: autonomous and out of the hands of the human developers
Speaker 2: these technologies are going to be.
Speaker 6: That's entirely right.
Speaker 9: The reporter referred to a few moments ago AI twenty
Speaker 9: twenty seven.
Speaker 6: You know, it speculates the Q three twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 9: So a little bit over two years from now, you'll
Speaker 9: start to see the full automation of research units within
Speaker 9: big arts fisial intelligence companies, which is to say, AI
Speaker 9: will be building the AI, at which point we may
Speaker 9: we may see this is pure speculation, we may see
Speaker 9: a Jacob with regards to the competational power the problem
Speaker 9: solving ability of artifacial intelligence. Now, what I've seen in
Speaker 9: terms of people criticizing that, pushing it back, well that's
Speaker 9: far too soon.
Speaker 6: That won't happen in two years time. Well, even if
Speaker 6: you think it's going to happen in ten years time.
Speaker 9: That's not a particularly good rebuttal you know, even if
Speaker 9: you think it's twenty years time, I don't think that's
Speaker 9: a parsticularly good response. But it could happen within two time,
Speaker 9: and I think we should politically respond in such a
Speaker 9: manner as to presume that it's very soon, it's very imminent,
Speaker 9: and there's a few ways to look at this. So
Speaker 9: on the one hand, you might get an agi of course, right,
Speaker 9: you might get something which sounds like the Matrix or
Speaker 9: sky New Park that for a moment, because I think
Speaker 9: almost the conversation about an existential threat masks the far
Speaker 9: more likely and far more pernicious impacts of this stuff.
Speaker 9: Park that for a moment. If you do get a business,
Speaker 9: a private corporate entity with AI that can you know,
Speaker 9: augment its own intelligence to such an extent that all
Speaker 9: of a sudden you have just overwhelming superiority in pretty
Speaker 9: much every field of affairs, every industry, imagine the value
Speaker 9: capture that's available to that company. It would be like
Speaker 9: a business discovering, you know, the steam engine and having
Speaker 9: patent rights so nobody else can get it. Of course,
Speaker 9: that happened in the nineteenth eighteenth century other with Watton.
Speaker 6: Bolton, but it was a very different.
Speaker 9: There wasn't a global market, there wasn't patent law like
Speaker 9: there is now. Necessarily, you would see something like the
Speaker 9: steam engine competing against the horse and cart in every
Speaker 9: major global industry really quickly. You would not want a
Speaker 9: single firm to have that kind of that kind of monopoly.
Speaker 9: You wouldn't want that kind of oligopoly either. And I
Speaker 9: think the far more pernicious threat rather than an AGI
Speaker 9: is basically what we've seen with big tech over the
Speaker 9: last twenty twenty five years.
Speaker 6: Look what Amazon's done to your high street.
Speaker 9: Okay, Look what Meta and and alphabet have done to kids'
Speaker 9: attention spans. Look what it's done to report it self
Speaker 9: farm with regards to teenage, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 6: All these social.
Speaker 9: Harms from big tech, the negative fixsonalities, you know, high
Speaker 9: streets in this country, crist All, they're destroyed because all
Speaker 9: that value has been captured by these really powerful global corporations.
Speaker 9: In the United States, I would say five extra, right,
Speaker 9: and that's the best case scenario. That's not the AGI scenario.
Speaker 9: That's the better case scenario. And I almost feel that
Speaker 9: people like Sam Mortman Elon Musk want to talk about AGI,
Speaker 9: so we don't talk about the wealth inequality, the regional inequality,
Speaker 9: the global inequality. Because the only two countries in this
Speaker 9: rice to China in the US the only two countries.
Speaker 9: The European Union is not the races, not the Global
Speaker 9: South is at the rices. And so that to me
Speaker 9: is the big conversation. Even if you think HI is
Speaker 9: not plausible, this is still a massive political challenge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. And to your point, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the consequences may already be here. We can
Speaker 2: put E five up on the screen. There was an
Speaker 2: article in New York Times. I'm a LinkedIn executive. I
Speaker 2: see the bottom rung of the career ladder breaking. And
Speaker 2: you know, it makes sense that the type of work
Speaker 2: that new college grads tend to do, sort of like
Speaker 2: entry level office, white collar jobs, that that would be
Speaker 2: the first place that you really spot an impact. So
Speaker 2: in particular, college grad unemployment is at thirty percent here
Speaker 2: in the US, which is quite high. We also see
Speaker 2: a huge spike in applications to law school, which is
Speaker 2: also it tends to be a recession indicator because people
Speaker 2: feel like, oh, you know, I want to go out
Speaker 2: in the job market now, so let me just continue
Speaker 2: my schooling. But it also could be an indicator here
Speaker 2: of you know, people realizing those entry level desk jobs
Speaker 2: where you're doing spreadsheet analysis, or you're you know, when
Speaker 2: you're coming out of law school the first year, you know,
Speaker 2: first year out and you're doing all of this kind
Speaker 2: of grunt, relatively routine work. For the more senior level partners,
Speaker 2: those will be the first things to go where maybe
Speaker 2: instead of hiring twenty new fresh on a law school students,
Speaker 2: maybe you hire five and give them chat GPT to
Speaker 2: do your first right of you know, whatever you're drafting.
Speaker 2: So in some ways it seems that the pernicious effects
Speaker 2: are already starting to show up. You know, Arin, what
Speaker 2: are what are some of the areas where you think
Speaker 2: we should be sort of most if we're thinking about
Speaker 2: triaging this situation, what are some of the areas that
Speaker 2: you think we should focus on most immediately?
Speaker 6: Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
Speaker 9: So with the emergence of general purpose robotics in manufacturing,
Speaker 9: you know, we saw white collar communities be destroyed basically
Speaker 9: over the last thirty five forty years, particularly in the UK,
Speaker 9: also the US, much of Western Europe. Many of those
Speaker 9: jobs went abroad, as people like Donald Trump likes to
Speaker 9: talk about, but many, many, many more were automated. I
Speaker 9: think We're going to see something similar with regards to
Speaker 9: machine learning and white collar jobs that you say they
Speaker 9: won't be replaced, just like you know, we still manufacture
Speaker 9: cars here in the UK with a half fire, far
Speaker 9: higher rather productivity per person per our works as far
Speaker 9: fewer people doing the work. I think something similar is
Speaker 9: going to happen to these kinds of jobs. And I
Speaker 9: think the first implication that you should draw out of
Speaker 9: that is a political one. Peter Turchin did a great
Speaker 9: book a few years ago and he talked about this
Speaker 9: idea of elite overproduction. And I do think that when
Speaker 9: automation deprives lots of ambitious, you know, often moderate to
Speaker 9: highly intelligent young people of a career that they expected,
Speaker 9: they've put themselves in a ton of debt. They feel
Speaker 9: that they've played by the rules and everything that was
Speaker 9: asked of them, and then and then they're still back
Speaker 9: at square one, and you have that elite overproduction and
Speaker 9: they think, well, I should be a part of the
Speaker 9: body politic, I should be playing a role. I should
Speaker 9: have an impact on public life like anybody else. These
Speaker 9: are people who believe in the idea of citizenship and
Speaker 9: shaping politics and having agency you know, that's generally how
Speaker 9: the middle class conceive of themselves. If you see those
Speaker 9: people all of a sudden being annihilated by the jobs market,
Speaker 9: I think that's going to create all kinds of really
Speaker 9: weird political outgrowths. And I think actually, if you look
Speaker 9: at for instance, Europe right now, with the growth of
Speaker 9: the far right, there's a cliche in places like England
Speaker 9: that older people tended to vote for Brexit, which is true.
Speaker 9: Older people tend to be more right wing in this country,
Speaker 9: that's true. But if you look at Italy, the Netherlands, France,
Speaker 9: these countries whore actually the young.
Speaker 6: You are, the more likely you are to vote for
Speaker 6: the far right.
Speaker 9: I wonder if within that set of circumstances, immigration, stagnating
Speaker 9: living standards, you know, all the things that are already there,
Speaker 9: Like if you throw into that job losses for middle
Speaker 9: class people who may just have had otherwise moderate politics,
Speaker 9: I wonder what happens, And it feels like a bit
Speaker 9: of a it feels like a bit of a tinderbox.
Speaker 9: Over the next ten to fifteen years, I think you'll
Speaker 9: have many of those people go to the radical left.
Speaker 9: I think you'll also have many of those people go
Speaker 9: to the radical right identity politics of white supremacism and
Speaker 9: white nationalism, you know, euroinationalism, et cetera. And so that
Speaker 9: to me is the big thing that happens next to Crystal,
Speaker 9: because we're in the game of politics and analysis but
Speaker 9: also persuasion. And that's something I'm really worried about is that,
Speaker 9: you know, the young guys today who are going to
Speaker 9: go work for McKinsey or for Deloitte or you know,
Speaker 9: a magic circle law firm, that's all taken away from
Speaker 9: them and they get highly politicized, they become proletarianized, downwardly mobile,
Speaker 9: and they break to the right. I think that's politically
Speaker 9: very very concerning over the next decade or two.
Speaker 2: And so as a leftist, how do you think about
Speaker 2: that and how do you think about the program that
Speaker 2: should be offered to about that? Because I think it's
Speaker 2: abundantly clear that neoliberalism does not offer anything approaching an
Speaker 2: adequate solution to the problems of today, let alone the
Speaker 2: problems of tomorrow.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 9: Think you know, we're going to have the right analysis
Speaker 9: on this, and like you say, the next question is, well,
Speaker 9: what's the propositional response right now? The nativist right will say,
Speaker 9: to these young people who've just lost everything, maybe I'm
Speaker 9: being a bit dramatic, because they still have wealthy parents
Speaker 9: that still inherit some wealth, but they certainly won't be
Speaker 9: as wealthy as their parents were. Generally speaking, the response
Speaker 9: should be if you want a future, if you want
Speaker 9: to be part of a constructive political project, if you
Speaker 9: want to be somebody, if you want to be part something.
Speaker 6: Bigger than you, then only the left can provide that.
Speaker 9: And I do think that's going to be tied up
Speaker 9: with a word that's now on vogue in the US, Crystal,
Speaker 9: which is abundance. I do think that's going to be
Speaker 9: tied up by that agenda. You can have a future
Speaker 9: of scarcity, or you can have a future of abundance scarcity.
Speaker 6: And this doesn't mean.
Speaker 9: You have to open borders as a left if I'm
Speaker 9: not saying that, but the emphasis on excluding others only
Speaker 9: constructing a society where we all look and sound the same,
Speaker 9: I think if you look at the political economy of
Speaker 9: that project on the nativist, white supremacist right, I think,
Speaker 9: going hand in hand with that, it is no real
Speaker 9: political technological answer to the stuff we've just talked about AI,
Speaker 9: machine learning, etc. Who owns these, who benefits from these?
Speaker 9: Because ultimately these are extraordinary tools. They have the ability
Speaker 9: to either create the world's first trillionaire, as I said,
Speaker 9: predicted by Mark Cuban, or you know, we can have
Speaker 9: three publicly available universal access to high speed rail and
Speaker 9: buses within ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 6: Why not, you know? And I think that has to
Speaker 6: be the agenda that we offer.
Speaker 9: But I think what's interesting for me and against something
Speaker 9: I got wrong, is I feel like the future.
Speaker 6: Will have aspects of the past.
Speaker 9: And I didn't really understand this when I wrote the book,
Speaker 9: but I feel like we're going to see a emergence
Speaker 9: of nineteenth century politics, territorial annexation, ethnic identity politics, et cetera.
Speaker 9: That's going to go hand in hand with some really advanced,
Speaker 9: hyper advanced technologies. And that's that that's what makes the
Speaker 9: situation so hard to read, you know, and a good
Speaker 9: you'll kind of have to sort of invite me here
Speaker 9: because you read my book, a good book, a good novel.
Speaker 9: To think of this all through as the is the
Speaker 9: book June, I think, which offers a really interesting prism.
Speaker 6: On the one hand, you have hyper.
Speaker 9: Advanced technologies accompanying effectively a quasi feudal political order. And
Speaker 9: you know, we always presume that technological advance will go
Speaker 9: hand in hand with you know, social political advance, or
Speaker 9: at least be linear progression. Right, I suspect we may
Speaker 9: we may start to see that sort of disconnecting. You know,
Speaker 9: we might see societies moving away from a quality end
Speaker 9: of the law back towards feudal kind of feudal social
Speaker 9: ties combined with out special intelligence. I know I might
Speaker 9: send a bit crazy here, but I think.
Speaker 7: No, I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Think anyone who's really paying attention already sees the signs
Speaker 2: of that. You know, Naomi Kline who actually came up
Speaker 2: earlier in the show, and I was talking to Emma Vigeland.
Speaker 2: She talks about this prepper mentality. But at the nation
Speaker 2: state level where you're you know, and you see it
Speaker 2: in the US with Trump. You know, we're going to
Speaker 2: take Greenland, We're going to take Gaza, We're going to
Speaker 2: take Panama. You know, we're going to do this exploitative
Speaker 2: like colonial style minerals deal with Ukraine where it's you know, okay,
Speaker 2: we're not pretending that we care about democracy and human
Speaker 2: rights anymore, except when it comes apparently to white people
Speaker 2: in South Africa, that's all out the window. But we
Speaker 2: are going to do old school territorial acquisition and imperialism.
Speaker 2: I mean, he models himself after William McKinley, who's like
Speaker 2: a turn of the century president and who was the
Speaker 2: first to sort of expand the US empire. Talks about
Speaker 2: manifest destiny and it really is this like Prepper mentality,
Speaker 2: except applied to an entire nation. And then of course
Speaker 2: Curtis Yarvin, who's been intellectually influential with this administration, especially
Speaker 2: with like the tech but Peter Til's and those people
Speaker 2: and Jade Vance Elon Musk within the administration, you know,
Speaker 2: they he explicitly argues for a techno feudalist future, and
Speaker 2: Peter Tile has funded some of these techno feudalist societies
Speaker 2: as little you know, trial runs on what that could
Speaker 2: look like.
Speaker 7: So I don't think it.
Speaker 2: I think if you're paying attention to those things, you
Speaker 2: already see the signs of the direction that you're that
Speaker 2: you're predicting here.
Speaker 9: Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you agree, But you know,
Speaker 9: if you listen to people in legacy media, most mainstream analysis,
Speaker 9: although that's slightly changing. They think that that stuff is
Speaker 9: for the birds. But I couldn't agree more. Take Trump
Speaker 9: for since, with this his enthusiasm to have africaner migrants
Speaker 9: refugees come to the United States, you can almost see
Speaker 9: and look, I don't know, I don't know Donal Trump
Speaker 9: and has never met the man. I'm certainly not. I'm
Speaker 9: not in the habit of ventriloquizing. White people are doing
Speaker 9: things and what they might say to excuse their actions.
Speaker 9: But you can almost see Trump and the people around
Speaker 9: them saying, well, look, it's good European Africana stock. You know.
Speaker 9: I don't know if you watch Rugby a crystal, but
Speaker 9: you know South Africatia they have lots of big Africanas
Speaker 9: six foot ten, you know, two hundred and thirty kilos.
Speaker 6: That's what they have.
Speaker 9: Environment of good white European stock comes to the US,
Speaker 9: and like you say, it's a mindset that sounds like
Speaker 9: something from one hundred and fifty two hundred years ago.
Speaker 9: But I feel like that's the world where we're moving towards.
Speaker 9: And you have right now, and who knows right it's
Speaker 9: a very volatile political coalition that Trump has. But you
Speaker 9: have this extraordinary political coalition that includes people like that,
Speaker 9: and at the same time, you know people like Teal,
Speaker 9: multi billionaires, very very powerful people who are at the
Speaker 9: front of technological innovation in the United States. But of
Speaker 9: course the big question is is the United States it's
Speaker 9: going to remain at the forefront of global techological innovation
Speaker 9: because the other player in this whole story is the
Speaker 9: Chinese Communist Party, and for better or worse, they have
Speaker 9: a very different model with regards to politics. Implicitly, I
Speaker 9: think has a critique of capitalism. It's a market society,
Speaker 9: but the politics of that society is not determined by
Speaker 9: big C capital.
Speaker 6: It's very different.
Speaker 9: It actually has a national interest in its heart and
Speaker 9: a people's interest it's heart that I think is fundamentally
Speaker 9: different to the United States and some European countries. So
Speaker 9: that to me is that is the intriguing conflict of
Speaker 9: the next several decades as we move I think towards
Speaker 9: AGI is what is that technology going to be programmed with?
Speaker 9: What's the social software that's going to accompany it? A
Speaker 9: company it I don't think it's going to be the
Speaker 9: sort of liberal mores of the twentieth century.
Speaker 6: I just don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker 9: I think we're seeing the end of the post Second
Speaker 9: World War social liberal order over and the question is
Speaker 9: what's it going to be replaced by. I think the
Speaker 9: left has hindered itself by repeatedly, for well for at
Speaker 9: least fifteen years, by repeatedly tying itself to a failing,
Speaker 9: collapsing liberal social order. We have to understand that if
Speaker 9: we continue to do that in the West, at least
Speaker 9: certainly in the anglophone countries, there'll only be one game
Speaker 9: in town, which is the right. And again that might sound,
Speaker 9: you know, hyperbolic. You're seeing signals of it now, you know.
Speaker 9: I think, particularly with young men, this is what really
Speaker 9: alarms me. I think if the next five years are
Speaker 9: like the last five years, you're almost looking at hegemonic
Speaker 9: politics of extremism amongst younger men, and that should really
Speaker 9: worry people.
Speaker 2: I think last question for you, Aeron before I let
Speaker 2: you go. I really appreciate you taking the time. You're
Speaker 2: you know, very insightful to get your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: If you were advising a presidential candidate in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: eight and you know put aside actually like what the
Speaker 2: polls would say, But just think in terms of the
Speaker 2: right policy. Would you advocate for freeze on a development,
Speaker 2: would you advocate for the government basically like buying and
Speaker 2: nationalizing these technologies? Like what do you think is the
Speaker 2: correct direction at this point?
Speaker 9: I suppose if you had something of a freeze on it,
Speaker 9: the American deep state would get rid of you quite sharpish, right.
Speaker 2: If I don't know, I don't really believe in American
Speaker 2: deep state anymore. I feel like they would have taken
Speaker 2: up for long ago if at the bomb market, that's
Speaker 2: the real deep state, I think true.
Speaker 6: No, you are right, that's true.
Speaker 9: But you know, I think there's a very real possibility
Speaker 9: that China if you did put the guard right, and
Speaker 9: this is this is this is something which people I
Speaker 9: don't like politically. This is something they're saying which is
Speaker 9: probably true that if you didn't put guardrails on this stuff. Sorry,
Speaker 9: if you did put guardrails and stuff in the United
Speaker 9: States and the Chinese development, you are at a massive disadvantage.
Speaker 6: I think that's true.
Speaker 9: So you have a couple of options, right, you work
Speaker 9: together to put guard rails on it. That would be
Speaker 9: My priority is contract rails. Yeah, sure of that. And
Speaker 9: if China's you know, sure of that. My policy would
Speaker 9: be that the US government should have equity shares in
Speaker 9: any major company with a market cap above a certain
Speaker 9: amount developing AI. The United States government, federal government has
Speaker 9: to have a five percent equity stake in that business.
Speaker 9: We have to have people on your board. Sorry, it's
Speaker 9: just too important. That might sound quite radical, quite extreme.
Speaker 9: That's still a market economy, right, you still got private businesses.
Speaker 9: But the point is people representing the body politic, the
Speaker 9: American citizen large, that they'll be reflecting the kinds of
Speaker 9: decisions that those companies make.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's something I would do anyway.
Speaker 9: The French do that, by the way, all their all
Speaker 9: their big successful companies. The French government has a nice
Speaker 9: equity share in them, and it means they're involved. Yeah,
Speaker 9: so they're involved in those decisions. Now, you can have
Speaker 9: stupid people in those organizations and they screw those businesses up.
Speaker 6: That's not good.
Speaker 9: But you know, the States seem to do pretty well,
Speaker 9: right that. The Norwegian seems to do pretty well. Their
Speaker 9: sovereign wealth fund is managed by government officials that they're
Speaker 9: doing a great job.
Speaker 6: So I mean that would be my one thing would
Speaker 6: be you.
Speaker 9: Know what, the United States government ship a five secuity
Speaker 9: share in Apple, Nvidia, Tesla, you know, Meta, et cetera,
Speaker 9: et cetera.
Speaker 6: That's probably what I would do.
Speaker 9: And I'd also say, you want you want domestically produced microprocesses,
Speaker 9: which is probably something that Trump gets right, but the
Speaker 9: policy would be rather different. And again the business that's
Speaker 9: doing that, which would be a little bit like what
Speaker 9: the Taiwanese have done over the last thirty years with TSMC,
Speaker 9: that would I think have to benefit from public funding,
Speaker 9: and so it should probably be publicly owned.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree with all of that.
Speaker 2: I mean, it should not be left to like Elon Musk,
Speaker 2: Sam Altman and Jeff Bezos to decide the future of society,
Speaker 2: which at least get to have a little bit of
Speaker 2: a democratic say in what happens, because otherwise we know
Speaker 2: we know the end the end of the story, like tremendous,
Speaker 2: unfathomable amounts of wealth and power accumulating in just a
Speaker 2: handful of individuals who you know, regardless of whether you
Speaker 2: like them or not. No one person should have that
Speaker 2: level of power, and we know who it would come
Speaker 2: at the expense of as well, Aaron, tell people where
Speaker 2: they can find you and anything else that you want
Speaker 2: to plug and share with them. And again I really
Speaker 2: recommend to people your book because I think it is
Speaker 2: very I think it's very thought provoking, and I also
Speaker 2: think sometimes on the left we can think sort of
Speaker 2: small ball in a sense, and so just to read
Speaker 2: something that was you know, expansive in its vision was
Speaker 2: also very mind opening for me.
Speaker 9: That's very kind. I mean, I do agree with you there.
Speaker 9: And the people that think big right now are the right.
Speaker 9: You know, people like you do to Mask Jeff Bezils,
Speaker 9: they think big logistically, but also in terms of their vision.
Speaker 6: They're thinking really big big.
Speaker 9: You know, they're very serious about their project's Pete the
Speaker 9: tail is thinking big. You know, this guy funds journals
Speaker 9: for really your you know, minor French intellectuals because in
Speaker 9: his mind he's trying to build something which outlasts him.
Speaker 9: And I think we on the left should be doing
Speaker 9: something similar. You know, in Virmedia, we've been going for
Speaker 9: more than ten years now, we're close to fifteen. You know,
Speaker 9: I want this organization to be here for long after
Speaker 9: I'm gone, and whether or not that happens is another question,
Speaker 9: and I think that's what the Left needs to do
Speaker 9: is think big, think long term. You know we are
Speaker 9: we are people within history with people within a movement
Speaker 9: which was around a long long time before us and
Speaker 9: hopefully long time afterwards, and we need to leave it
Speaker 9: in a much better stay than we found it sitting
Speaker 9: in the English speaking world. In terms of where people
Speaker 9: can find me, I'm on x at arab Bustani and
Speaker 9: on Instagram. That's mostly my family and my dog. In
Speaker 9: terms of Naviro Media, you can find us on Instagram,
Speaker 9: x TikTok everywhere, YouTube of course, just in Environ media.
Speaker 9: We're closing on a million subscribers on YouTube. We're trying
Speaker 9: our best to imitate you guys over there, so if
Speaker 9: people can subscribe to us as well, then you know
Speaker 9: that's good, might help help us get over the million monk.
Speaker 7: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys do fantastic work, so I know you
Speaker 2: will reach that milestone in no time at all. Erin
Speaker 2: thank you so much. I hope you come back all right, guys.
Speaker 2: That does it for us. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: watching today. Ryan and Emily will be in tomorrow. Thank
Speaker 2: you for bearing with whatever's going on with my face.
Speaker 2: I also if my brain seemed a little bit out
Speaker 2: of it today. My cat was missing for a while.
Speaker 2: She is now returned, but I was very freaked out
Speaker 2: and worried about that. But kitty is back, my face
Speaker 2: will be fine. Thank you guys for watching, and I
Speaker 2: will see you on Thursday.