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Speaker 2: More just absolute horrific atrocities to your point about we

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Speaker 2: can put these images that prepare yourself because this is

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Speaker 2: just unbelievable. This is a young girl who is wandering

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Speaker 2: through the flames on the wreckage after a school turned

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Speaker 2: shelter was bombed by Israel in a mass casualty murder

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Speaker 2: slaughterhouse event in Gaza. Dozens were killed in this school strike.

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Speaker 2: I believe thirty six were killed here and at least

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Speaker 2: fifty two people overall in the Gaza strip were killed

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Speaker 2: on Monday alone, just on Monday. You can see people

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Speaker 2: grabbing buckets of water here and trying to put out

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Speaker 2: the flames. I will tell you that little girl did escape.

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Speaker 2: I saw on an interview with her she escaped, but

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Speaker 2: her mom and all of her sisters, I think five

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Speaker 2: sisters were killed and her dad is in the ICU.

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Speaker 2: So that's the fallout of just this one horrific strike

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Speaker 2: on the school turned shelter. At the same time, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you've watched, Emma, some of the coverage

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Speaker 2: of tree yngst Over on Fox News, which appears to

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Speaker 2: be he's he's always been a little bit critical, and

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Speaker 2: he's been very courageous in speaking out on behalf of

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Speaker 2: Palestinian journalists, which I've really appreciated. But he's now produced

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Speaker 2: multiple reports on of Gaza that are quite searing and

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Speaker 2: you know, quite significant given the audience that they are

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Speaker 2: going out to there. On Fox News, he in particular

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Speaker 2: did a piece on this uh doctor, female doctor whose

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Speaker 2: children were all except one and there were nine of

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Speaker 2: them who were killed in an airstrike. And you know,

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Speaker 2: so he brought this piece to the Fox News audience.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little

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Speaker 2: bit of that.

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Speaker 3: Inside Gaza, the death toll is mounting. Over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: a single Israeli strike killed nine children from the Almazard family.

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Speaker 3: New video shows first responders at the sight of the

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Speaker 3: strike in the city of han Yunis. Many of the

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Speaker 3: images too graphic to show. As the charred bodies of

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Speaker 3: young Palestinians are pulled from the rubble at Naser Hospital,

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Speaker 3: their mother, a doctor, received the remains, identifying each child.

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Speaker 4: As she wept, she said, this is rival. Give her

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Speaker 4: to me. Look at her instinct as a mother, as

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Speaker 4: if her daughter was still alive. She asked to hold

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Speaker 4: her in her arms. She's a pediatrician. See the subconscious reaction.

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Speaker 4: She wanted to embrace her daughter, forgetting that her daughter

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Speaker 4: was burnt in front of her eyes.

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Speaker 3: With the war grinding on, we do know mediators in

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Speaker 3: both Doha and Cairo are going to still try and

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Speaker 3: reach a ceasefire agreement, but with those ground operations ongoing,

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Speaker 3: it may be difficult.

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Speaker 2: It's just absolutely unimaginable, Like it's literally unimaginable. You're there

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Speaker 2: at a hospital trying to do your job, and the

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Speaker 2: bodies of your nine children are brought to you and

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Speaker 2: her one remaining child, a son is in serious condition

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Speaker 2: after the strike.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's unimaginable. Credit to Yins, who's done other good

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Speaker 5: segments over at Fox. I think we played one where

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Speaker 5: that covered the killing of the medical personnel by Israel,

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Speaker 5: that's right, right, which was when there were i think

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Speaker 5: over a dozen first responders who were zip tied hands

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Speaker 5: behind their back and basically shot and then covered in

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Speaker 5: mass graves and the Israelis initially tried to deny it.

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Speaker 5: Then there was footage that came out that Yanks put

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Speaker 5: to the four in that in that report, which contradicted

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Speaker 5: it as to other outlets. And I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 5: amazing to me that they even kind of bother with

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Speaker 5: the excuses at this point, right, they've almost moved away

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Speaker 5: from it entirely, Like you have Bengevier basically openly saying,

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Speaker 5: we're targeting civilians. This is the purpose of what we're

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Speaker 5: doing here.

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Speaker 6: It it. These are the.

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Speaker 5: Kinds of things that it's just a new atrossity every day,

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Speaker 5: and and last week I'm sure you covered this a

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Speaker 5: little bit too, Crystal, the reaction to Miss Rachel having

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Speaker 5: that that girl with that double amputeue girl on her

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Speaker 5: show and showing yeah uh rah, showing her the joy

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Speaker 5: that she had on her face when Miss Rachel was

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Speaker 5: singing and she got to meet her in person. Was

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Speaker 5: so deeply moving to me and heartbreaking because you see

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Speaker 5: that little girl engulfed in fire. Thankfully she's okay, but

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Speaker 5: her whole family is dead, and you think about the

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Speaker 5: level of trauma that that child has to endure. And

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Speaker 5: then you see that video with Miss Rachel and how

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Speaker 5: that for a moment she smiles and laughs even though

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Speaker 5: she can't really stand up anymore because she's still getting

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Speaker 5: used to her prosthetic legs. How many tens of thousands

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Speaker 5: of Palestinian children who don't know any better or their

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Speaker 5: lives are being completely destroyed, whether it be by trauma

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Speaker 5: or whether it be by maiming, because this genocide can

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Speaker 5: continues unabated, and because the United States is complicit in it.

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Speaker 5: And so back to the Trump policy on this, Yes,

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Speaker 5: I'm happy that they had been speaking directly to Hamas

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Speaker 5: and they got and they conducted these negotiations around the Israelis.

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Speaker 5: But does that mean that they're also going to restrict

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Speaker 5: arms to Israel. We have not seen that happen, and

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Speaker 5: that is the number one thing that needs to happen

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Speaker 5: to stop this slaughter. We had this under the Biden administration,

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Speaker 5: we have to say it under the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and we can put D four up on

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Speaker 2: the screen. To your point, Emma, that you know there

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Speaker 2: was direct talks between US delegation and Tamas, Jeremy Scale

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Speaker 2: and Dropsite. I really could cannot recommend their reporting more.

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Speaker 2: They're always ahead and always more accurate than the mainstream sources.

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Speaker 7: And basically the tld R here.

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Speaker 2: Is that Hamas and US had some level of under

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Speaker 2: standing agreement on a ceasefire deal, and then Israel came

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Speaker 2: in and said no, and you know, they don't want

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Speaker 2: the word to end. And then rather than the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration calling out Israel as the obstacle to some sort

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Speaker 2: of a ceasefire deal here, instead they threw Hamas. You know,

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Speaker 2: they said Hamas was the obstacle and took Israel side

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Speaker 2: once again. So it's like, okay, well, then, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're just seeing the same patterns play out as we

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Speaker 2: did under the Biden administration of these secret leaks about

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Speaker 2: oh they're really frustrated and oh we had a tough

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Speaker 2: conversation with bb and oh they're really upset blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: and oh Trump wants the word to end. If you

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Speaker 2: are still sending the bombs, you don't want the war

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Speaker 2: to end. It's really that simple. Like, until I see

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Speaker 2: you say and do okay, we're cutting off all weapons,

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Speaker 2: we are not supporting and funding this anymore. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, if an American president, whether it was Biden

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Speaker 2: or now Trump called bebe and said we're cutting off

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Speaker 2: the weapons, that's it. You're done. Guess what they would

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Speaker 2: be done. Yes, we do have that level of power

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Speaker 2: and control. That is the reality of the situation. And

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Speaker 2: so until that happens, then we are still funding, supporting,

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Speaker 2: providing diplomatic cover for the most horrific atrocity of our time.

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Speaker 2: And it's not even close. I mean this, it truly is.

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Speaker 2: It's a moral issue of our time. And you're right

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Speaker 2: at this point, if like, if you are an American

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Speaker 2: taxpayers even semi aware of what's going on, and you

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Speaker 2: aren't thinking about this every day and speaking so doing

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Speaker 2: something like it's it is a moral failing at this point.

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Speaker 2: It is a moral failing at this point given the children.

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Speaker 2: Just thinking about the children alone, that have been murdered, starved, bombed, amputees, maimed, traumatized.

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Speaker 2: None of these kids will ever be the same after

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Speaker 2: living through this.

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Speaker 5: And and there's been polling that has showed this overwhelming

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Speaker 5: majority of Israelis support Donald Trump's plant to purely ethnically

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Speaker 5: cleanse the Gaza strip and move the However, many Palestinians remain.

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Speaker 5: You know, you hear Trump and other people kind of

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Speaker 5: sometimes slip up and say figures that indicate what is

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Speaker 5: likely that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have actually been killed.

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Speaker 5: The figure that's being circulated in the mainstream press, I

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Speaker 5: think almost borders on lies and misinformation, So I don't

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Speaker 5: even like to use it because of how inadequate it is.

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Speaker 5: But you when you see that kind of polling, this

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Speaker 5: is just an indication that this is not going to

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Speaker 5: come from inside Israel.

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Speaker 7: This has to be like in South Africa.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, it has to be imposed by imposed exactly I mean,

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Speaker 2: and it's more an even more extreme situation, given the

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Speaker 2: level of slaughter of the genocide that we're seeing that

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Speaker 2: in South Africa, it has to be imposed upon them

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Speaker 2: by the international community.

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Speaker 5: And right now the world's superpower a waning one is

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Speaker 5: decided that the best opportunity for us to hold our

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Speaker 5: grip on power is to maintain our dominant military presence

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Speaker 5: via hard power in the Middle East because we're concerned

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Speaker 5: about China, China's incursion into that area and its increasing

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Speaker 5: sphere of influence. But they're doing it by things like, okay,

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Speaker 5: helping build infrastructure in the continent of Africa, or by

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Speaker 5: negotiating setting up a brokering a deal between Iran and

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Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia to stop the blockade and slaughter in Yemen,

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Speaker 5: which I still think gets not discussed enough because that

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Speaker 5: was actually a positive diplomatic negotiation that was brokered by

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Speaker 5: China around the United States, and so the US is

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Speaker 5: most That's how I think foreign policy has to be

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Speaker 5: viewed in the Middle East right now, which is they're

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Speaker 5: trying to create a bulwark against China, and they're doing

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Speaker 5: it by supporting a wholesale slaughter of an indigenous population.

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Speaker 2: I'm a vigilant. Thank you so much for hanging out

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Speaker 2: with me this morning. It's always a pleasure to see

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Speaker 2: you and hear you're really so much Crystal. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: tell anything you want to plug, Tell people where they

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Speaker 2: can go and watch the show and all that good stuff.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I'm the co host of a show called The

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Speaker 5: Majority Report. We're live every weekday noon Eastern. You can

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Speaker 5: find us on the Majority Report YouTube dot com, slash

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Speaker 5: sam Cedar and check us out today if you have

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Speaker 5: the time.

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Speaker 7: I'm there.

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Speaker 2: Just mentioned the extremism that has become pervasive throughout Israeli society,

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Speaker 2: and I've got two particular examples. I'm also going to

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Speaker 2: show you the poll that she referenced as well of

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Speaker 2: where you might see just outright genocidal sentiments expressed. We

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Speaker 2: have a woman here speaking about how you must destroy

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Speaker 2: the offspring of Palestinians, and you also have a mob

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Speaker 2: of a thousand far right Israeli's storming through Jerusalem channing

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Speaker 2: death to Arabs and also so harassing and assaulting any

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Speaker 2: random Palestinians that they happen to encounter.

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Speaker 7: Let's go ahead and take a look at both of

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Speaker 7: those things.

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Speaker 8: When there is a war, it doesn't matter who your

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Speaker 8: enemy is, you need to destroy their offspring to prevent

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Speaker 8: them from creating more offspring.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, that is an annual event. The

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Speaker 2: racist mob, violent assault march through Jerusalem and you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe you think, oh, maybe these are just the maybe

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Speaker 2: this is just the fringe of Israeli society. First of all,

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Speaker 2: note whether you saw any Israeli politicians condemning these genocidal

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Speaker 2: chants and violent actions. Second of all, take a look

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Speaker 2: at this poll that just came out asking Israelis, specifically

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Speaker 2: Israeli Jews, how they feel about various actions views of

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Speaker 2: the Palestine. So you've got eighty two percent, according to

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Speaker 2: this Penn State University poll, eighty two percent who support

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Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing of Gozzens.

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Speaker 7: That would be the.

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Speaker 2: Trump plan, solid majority. Fifty six percent support ethnic cleansing

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Speaker 2: of what they call Israeli Arabs, which are Palestinians who

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Speaker 2: live within Israel, and nearly half forty seven percent support

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Speaker 2: killing all Gosens in cities captured by the IDF. So

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Speaker 2: when Emma was saying, you know, this is not going

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Speaker 2: to come organically from within Israel, even though I really

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Speaker 2: want to praise, you know, there were some brave Israelis

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Speaker 2: who were putting themselves between the racist mob in Jerusalem

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Speaker 2: and Palestinians. There was also a march that said Palestinian

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Speaker 2: lives matter. Recently to the Gaza border. I want to

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Speaker 2: praise those courageous individuals, but we have to acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: the majority of this society, majority of the citizens, especially

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Speaker 2: Israeli Jews, of this society, have been gripped by a

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Speaker 2: you know, genocidal fever. And the only way this war

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Speaker 2: comes to an end is from the US taking action

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Speaker 2: and imposing some sort of peace and ultimately some sort

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Speaker 2: of political settlement, you know, on Israelis and you know,

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Speaker 2: to uphold the rights of Palestinians. Could put this next

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Speaker 2: piece up on the screen. There have been some indications

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Speaker 2: that most of the world is starting to realize the

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Speaker 2: way that the genocide in Gaza is going to be

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Speaker 2: viewed by history. And this came from a very surprising place.

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Speaker 2: So the Israeli has been trying to push forward this

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Speaker 2: quote unquote AID plan, which effectively amounts to using AID

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Speaker 2: as a lure to bait people to be ethnically cleansed

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Speaker 2: down of certain areas of Gaza, forced them to travel

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Speaker 2: to be able to avoid starvation, and then close the

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Speaker 2: door behind them. That the way Jeremy Scahill was describing it.

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Speaker 2: And they hired to implement this AID plan. They hired

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Speaker 2: this group of American mercenaries and set up this what's

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Speaker 2: called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. By the way, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of sketchiness going on of where the funding's coming from.

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Speaker 2: Drop Site is doing some reporting on that as well.

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Speaker 2: But this guy, Jake Wood, who is this you know,

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Speaker 2: ex military effectively like mercenary, who was hired to run

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Speaker 2: this quote unquote aid effort. He has resigned as executive

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Speaker 2: director of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Israeli planned for aid

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Speaker 2: distribution in Gaza that bypasses established NGO and UN channels

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Speaker 2: Corneia drop Site quote. Wood sites an inability to implement

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Speaker 2: an independent aid delivery plan without violating core humanitarian principles

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Speaker 2: as the reason for his departure. In a statement shared

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Speaker 2: by CNN's Jeremy Diamond, Wood said he was horrified and

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Speaker 2: heartbroken by the hunger crisis in Gaza and had sought

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Speaker 2: to build a neutral, secure mechanism to get food to civilians,

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Speaker 2: but he concluded could not maintain humanity, neutrality, impartiality and

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Speaker 2: independence under current conditions. He urged Israel to significantly expand

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Speaker 2: the provision of aid into Gaza through all mechanisms, and

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Speaker 2: urged all stakeholders to pursue innovative new methods for the

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Speaker 2: delivery of aid without delay, diversion, or discrimination. So their

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Speaker 2: plan was so unethical that even this American private military

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Speaker 2: contractor mercenary guy was like, I don't want to be

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Speaker 2: associated with this and resigned as executive director. Now the

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Speaker 2: foundation still exists. Someone else took his slot. They are

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Speaker 2: still moving forward at last. I saw to you, by

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Speaker 2: the way, it doesn't look like aid trucks are getting

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Speaker 2: into Gaza at all. People are still starving to death.

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Speaker 2: The images of emaciated children at the hospital are absolutely horrifying.

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Speaker 2: We know that dozens have already died of hunger starvation

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Speaker 2: because of this. And you know this is the that

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Speaker 2: they're moving forward with, is using food as a weapon

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Speaker 2: of war to effectuate their ultimate plan of ethnic cleansing.

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Speaker 2: Here's another very noteworthy person who is objecting to the

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Speaker 2: war crimes that are being committed by Israel. So Ahud Olmer,

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Speaker 2: who is a former Israeli Prime minister, put this next

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Speaker 2: one up on the screen. He wrote a not ed

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Speaker 2: accusing Israel war crimes, saying, in part, what we are

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Speaker 2: doing in Gaza is a war of extermination, indiscriminate, unrestrained,

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Speaker 2: brutal and criminal killing of civilians, a policy dictated knowingly, intentionally, viciously,

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Speaker 2: and maliciously by the government. Yes, we are committing war crimes.

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Speaker 2: And you know this guy is a war criminal himself.

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Speaker 2: By the way, he was Israeli Prime minister during brutal

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Speaker 2: Operation cast Led.

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Speaker 7: So this is no like lib hippie squish.

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Speaker 2: This is also a war criminal who even for him,

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Speaker 2: he's like, Okay, this is just undeniable that It's not

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Speaker 2: a few rogue actions taken by undisciplined I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you guys remember at the beginning of Israel's assault

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Speaker 2: on Gaza, we were told, oh, these are just rogue

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Speaker 2: actions here or there if guidelines aren't followed, these soldiers

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Speaker 2: are just being undisciplined. And there was all sort of

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Speaker 2: media commentary of like, when are they going to tell

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Speaker 2: that take the phones and make sure they stop posting

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Speaker 2: these things on Instagram. No, this is not rogue actions

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Speaker 2: of this or that idea of soldier. This is a

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Speaker 2: government policy of extermination and war crimes. And even a

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Speaker 2: former Israeli Prime minister can no longer deny that fact.

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Speaker 2: This one is also wild to put this last one

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Speaker 2: up on the screen. So the Chancellor of Germany mers

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Speaker 2: blast Israeli offensive in Gaza. Frankly speaking, I no longer

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Speaker 2: understand what the goal of the Israeli army in the

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Speaker 2: Gaza strip is, he said in an interview aired on

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Speaker 2: public television. To harm the civilian population to such an extent,

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Speaker 2: as has increasingly been the case in recent days, can

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Speaker 2: no longer be justified as a fight against Haman's terrorism.

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Speaker 2: So if you have been tracking any of the actions

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Speaker 2: of Germany, they have been brutal and crushing any sort

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Speaker 2: of pro Palestinian descent within their own country. Germany, because

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Speaker 2: of their own history of perpetrating the Holocaust self agenocide

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Speaker 2: against Jewish people, has been you know, steadfast and wanting

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Speaker 2: to always back up Israel as a sort of atonement.

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Speaker 2: The irony of course now being that Israel is committing

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Speaker 2: a genocide. So if you want to say never again,

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Speaker 2: that should obviously apply to any group of people, even

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Speaker 2: an ethnic group that was previously themselves subject to the

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Speaker 2: most horrific and barbaric, you know, mass killing that you

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Speaker 2: can possibly imagine. So when even Germany, when even the

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Speaker 2: German Chancellor feels the need to come out and say,

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Speaker 2: you know what this is, This is too far even

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 7: That is really pretty wild.

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Speaker 2: And we've covered before some of the statements from Canada,

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Speaker 2: from the EU. You know, there seems from Pierce Morgan,

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Speaker 2: from Theofan, there seems to have been a sort of

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Speaker 2: damn that was broken with regard to I wouldn't say

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Speaker 2: with regard to an increase in morality, but I think

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Speaker 2: it's just become undeniable when you see these you know,

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Speaker 2: this collective starvation, when you see the bombing of the rubble,

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Speaker 2: when you hear Israeli politicians just go completely mask off

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Speaker 2: and say, yeah, we you know they're doing my plan

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Speaker 2: Nowrich says, of bombing civilian infrastructure. When you hear them

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Speaker 2: talking openly about ethnic cleansing, When you hear them saying

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Speaker 2: openly Smotrich in particular saying openly and not Yahoo as well,

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Speaker 2: that the AID is just a cover to allow them

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Speaker 2: to continue their total war and their plans to forcibly

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Speaker 2: relocate the population, it becomes undeniable what the judgment of

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Speaker 2: history is ultimately going to be.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 2: The question, of course, the only question that really matters

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Speaker 2: isn't whether these people will be able to like cover

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Speaker 2: their asses in the judgment of history or not. The

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Speaker 2: only question that really matters is whether or not lives

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Speaker 2: are going to be saved, whether or not there's going

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Speaker 2: to be some sort of ceasefire and political solution that

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Speaker 2: ends the slaughter and the abuse of Palestinian people. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: really only the US president can effectuate that outcome at

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Speaker 2: this point, and what we've seen from Trump has been

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Speaker 2: really a continuation of the Biden bb Bear hug strategy,

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Speaker 2: where occasionally he'll say, oh, you know, oh I'm frustrated

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Speaker 2: to axios is Barock revied, but you know, they still

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Speaker 2: ship the weapons, they still provide the diplomatic cover, they

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Speaker 2: still use this, you know, this onslaught as well as

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Speaker 2: a justification for stripping our own rights here in the US.

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Speaker 2: We haven't seen anything recently that would be encouraging from

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration. So even as the DAN late breaks worldwide,

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Speaker 2: and even as I feel confident that in the history

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Speaker 2: books when people look back, they'll be horrified.

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Speaker 7: That this wasn't stopped.

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Speaker 2: They will want to know who said what and who

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Speaker 2: provided the you know, the propaganda cover for these crimes

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Speaker 2: to be committed. Out in the open, announced to the world,

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Speaker 2: justified and celebrated by many publicly, with all of the

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Speaker 2: means and the methods you know described. Even though I

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Speaker 2: feel confident that will be the judgment of history, it

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Speaker 2: remains to be seen how many Palestinian lives can be

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Speaker 2: saved before that ultimate judgment occurs. All right, guys, the

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Speaker 2: great guests coming up. I'm really looking forward to speaking

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Speaker 2: with Aaron Bassani, who wrote a book called Fully Automated

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Speaker 2: Luxury Communism, which is very mind expanding, is very like

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Speaker 2: it's this sort of techno optimist take from the left

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Speaker 2: on the possibilities of AI. If we had a society

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Speaker 2: structure to make sure that the benefits of not just

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Speaker 2: AI but all sort of like bleeding edge technological developments,

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Speaker 2: if those benefits were actually widely shared. Of course, we

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Speaker 2: know we don't live in that society. So I wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk to Erin about what he makes of some

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Speaker 2: of the latest AI developments.

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Speaker 7: Let's go ahead and get to that.

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Speaker 2: There have been a bunch of wild developments in AI technology,

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Speaker 2: which seems to be moving extremely rapidly, even more rapidly

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Speaker 2: than some of the most optimistic prognosticators had anticipated, and

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Speaker 2: so to break down what this means for the world

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Speaker 2: going forward. We're lucky to be joined by Aaron Bassani,

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Speaker 2: who's the co founder of Navara Media and wrote an

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Speaker 2: excellent book that I really recommend to everyone. Put this

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Speaker 2: up on the screen titled Fully Automated Luxury Communism. Erin

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Speaker 2: great to have you.

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Speaker 6: It's a pleasure to be with you, Crystal.

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Speaker 2: So the reason I wanted to talk to you is

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Speaker 2: because I told you i'd read your book before, and

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Speaker 2: I just reread it now because it felt timely inappropriate

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Speaker 2: given the AI shift, And it really takes a sort

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Speaker 2: of lefty techno optimist perspective arguing effectively that these technologies

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Speaker 2: can be used to transform all of our lives in

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Speaker 2: a way that is fully positive and to use, you know,

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Speaker 2: a term that used in the book and the resultso

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Speaker 2: apparently the term of the moment can create abundance for

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Speaker 2: really everyone and completely transform the way that we relate

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Speaker 2: to work and undermine the power of these capitalists, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: But obviously that would require a dramatic rethinking of the

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Speaker 2: current social contract, and so I just wanted to get

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Speaker 2: some of your thoughts on you know how you're viewing

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Speaker 2: this rapid AI development, you think it's a hopeful sign

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Speaker 2: or are you concerned? You know, as many people are

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Speaker 2: that as we're sort of barreling towards the possible cliff

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Speaker 2: of AGI and you know, workforce displacement, et cetera, we

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Speaker 2: really haven't grappled, either in the UK or here in

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Speaker 2: the US with the consequences and what the following is

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Speaker 2: going to be in the way we need to radically

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Speaker 2: reorient our societies if this is going to be beneficial

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Speaker 2: for all but a small handful of people.

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Speaker 9: So I'll start there with your final point in there, Crystal,

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Speaker 9: which is that right now where we're headed in terms

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Speaker 9: of trajectory is a very good place to be for

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Speaker 9: a tiny portion of people, the best part of a

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Speaker 9: decade ago now. Mark Cuban, of course, own of the

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Speaker 9: Dallas Mavericks, a dude on sharks, and I think your

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Speaker 9: version of dragons don over there in the States.

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Speaker 6: He speculates that the world's first.

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Speaker 9: Trillionaire would be in the field of artificial intelligence, as

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Speaker 9: it captures value across white collar industries like accountancy, legal services,

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Speaker 9: medical services, all kinds of support work in things like planning, architecture,

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Speaker 9: database management, payroll, everything everything that you know we would hold.

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Speaker 9: If you study hard, go at university and get a

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Speaker 9: decent degree, you'll have a stable job in that industry.

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Speaker 9: Mark Cuban said, all that value is going to be

436
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 9: captured by AI. First people there with first move advantage,

437
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 9: the meta, the alphabet of AI is going to get

438
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 9: all that and those people, the Zuckerberg's and the Bezelses

439
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 9: of the industry will be trillion as there's a reason

440
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 9: why there's a ton of people in this race right now.

441
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 9: So that's where we could be headed. A few things

442
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 9: that are going back to what you started with and

443
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 9: things I got wrong. Firstly, remember this book I think

444
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 9: was published in twenty eighteen in England. I was writing

445
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 9: it really from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen. I did

446
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 9: not think we would be where we are now.

447
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 6: You had the.

448
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 7: Research or AI of technological changes.

449
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 6: One.

450
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 9: I didn't think that now, and that's with regards to

451
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 9: things like machine learning, the stuff you're seeing with generators

452
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 9: of AI. It's also the case with the human like

453
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 9: robots you're now seeing, particularly in places like China. I

454
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 9: also I didn't think that China's electric vehicle industry would

455
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 9: be anything like as powerful as it is.

456
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 6: Obviously, the book isn't just about AI and robotics.

457
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 9: It's about renewable energy, it's about you know, offworld asteroid mining,

458
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 9: et cetera, et cetera. Pretty much on every account, I

459
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 9: didn't expect us to be this far advanced. And so

460
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 9: those questions that I raised in the book are actually

461
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 9: far more salient in twenty twenty five than I thought

462
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 9: they would be. Finally, and it's against something I overlooked.

463
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 9: I kind of regret overlooking it is the role played

464
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 9: Crystal of geopolitics and great power politics. This rivalry between

465
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 9: the US and China is clearly what is going to

466
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 9: drive forward.

467
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 6: AI technological change.

468
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 9: It's one of the reasons now being given by people

469
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 9: as why we shouldn't have guardrails. If the US has guardrails, well,

470
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 9: then China's going to develop something really powerful and leave

471
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 9: us behind, you know. And the exact same conversations are

472
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 9: happening in China. So lots of big questions, and you know,

473
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 9: I thought we would have maybe twenty twenty five years

474
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 9: before they were relevant. But I think before the end

475
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 9: of this decade, Crystal, there's stuff that the left progressives. Basically,

476
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 9: anybody who cares about the future society needs to get

477
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 9: on top of not just intellectually, but actually with a

478
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 9: policy response.

479
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: So let's take a look at some of the indications

480
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: of that rapid development. Focusing in sort of on AI.

481
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: There have been a bunch of these. There's a new

482
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: product down I don't remember what it's called that would

483
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: have been helpful, but it allows you to create these

484
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 2: video clips with simple prompts that are indistinguishable from reality,

485
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: and people have been sharing these around these like fake

486
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: newscaster clips. Let's go ahead and take a look at

487
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: a couple of those.

488
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 6: In shocking news, JK.

489
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: Rowling's yacht sank with her on board after being attacked

490
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 3: by orcas off the coast of Turkey.

491
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 8: Breaking news, a Scottish fold cat named Big White has

492
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 8: led an army of felines to seize Buckingham Palace, declaring

493
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 8: itself the new King of Britain.

494
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: Those are shockingly realistic, even if the content is a

495
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: little preposterous. You also have a couple of troubling indications,

496
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: and there's been research to this effect already that some

497
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: of these chatbots already engage in scheming to try to

498
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: avoid having their priorities changed or of shutting down. There

499
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: was this bizarre situation I'm sure you followed with GROCK

500
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: deciding to talk all about South Africa and white quote

501
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: unquote white genocide and kill the boar, which was in

502
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: some ways, you know, different from what it's humans. In

503
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: some ways it was consistent with what the humans wanted

504
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: it to do, but it was in some ways different

505
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: as well. We can put the E three up on

506
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: the screen chat GPT ignored an explicit instruction to switch

507
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 2: off in some tests that we're being run. We can

508
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: put the next one up on the screen, which is

509
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: really wild. There was a test that was done with

510
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: the Amazon backed AI model where it, in order to

511
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: again avoid being shut down, it tried to blackmail an

512
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: engineer about not a real affair, but they'd given it

513
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: access to these emails that indicated that an engineer was

514
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: having an affair and tried to blackmail this person with

515
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: the affair to try to keep from getting shut down.

516
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny, but it's also terrifying because we're

517
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: only at this level of development.

518
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 7: It makes you wonder.

519
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: It seems like already humans don't have total control over

520
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 2: these things. It makes you wonder when we get to

521
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: that next stage of development, you know how sort of

522
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: autonomous and out of the hands of the human developers

523
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: these technologies are going to be.

524
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 6: That's entirely right.

525
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 9: The reporter referred to a few moments ago AI twenty

526
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 9: twenty seven.

527
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 6: You know, it speculates the Q three twenty twenty seven.

528
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 9: So a little bit over two years from now, you'll

529
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 9: start to see the full automation of research units within

530
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 9: big arts fisial intelligence companies, which is to say, AI

531
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 9: will be building the AI, at which point we may

532
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 9: we may see this is pure speculation, we may see

533
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 9: a Jacob with regards to the competational power the problem

534
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 9: solving ability of artifacial intelligence. Now, what I've seen in

535
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 9: terms of people criticizing that, pushing it back, well that's

536
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 9: far too soon.

537
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 6: That won't happen in two years time. Well, even if

538
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 6: you think it's going to happen in ten years time.

539
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 9: That's not a particularly good rebuttal you know, even if

540
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 9: you think it's twenty years time, I don't think that's

541
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 9: a parsticularly good response. But it could happen within two time,

542
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 9: and I think we should politically respond in such a

543
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 9: manner as to presume that it's very soon, it's very imminent,

544
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 9: and there's a few ways to look at this. So

545
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 9: on the one hand, you might get an agi of course, right,

546
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 9: you might get something which sounds like the Matrix or

547
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 9: sky New Park that for a moment, because I think

548
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 9: almost the conversation about an existential threat masks the far

549
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 9: more likely and far more pernicious impacts of this stuff.

550
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 9: Park that for a moment. If you do get a business,

551
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 9: a private corporate entity with AI that can you know,

552
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 9: augment its own intelligence to such an extent that all

553
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 9: of a sudden you have just overwhelming superiority in pretty

554
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 9: much every field of affairs, every industry, imagine the value

555
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 9: capture that's available to that company. It would be like

556
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 9: a business discovering, you know, the steam engine and having

557
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 9: patent rights so nobody else can get it. Of course,

558
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 9: that happened in the nineteenth eighteenth century other with Watton.

559
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 6: Bolton, but it was a very different.

560
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 9: There wasn't a global market, there wasn't patent law like

561
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 9: there is now. Necessarily, you would see something like the

562
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 9: steam engine competing against the horse and cart in every

563
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 9: major global industry really quickly. You would not want a

564
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 9: single firm to have that kind of that kind of monopoly.

565
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 9: You wouldn't want that kind of oligopoly either. And I

566
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 9: think the far more pernicious threat rather than an AGI

567
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 9: is basically what we've seen with big tech over the

568
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 9: last twenty twenty five years.

569
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 6: Look what Amazon's done to your high street.

570
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 9: Okay, Look what Meta and and alphabet have done to kids'

571
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 9: attention spans. Look what it's done to report it self

572
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 9: farm with regards to teenage, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

573
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 6: All these social.

574
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 9: Harms from big tech, the negative fixsonalities, you know, high

575
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 9: streets in this country, crist All, they're destroyed because all

576
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 9: that value has been captured by these really powerful global corporations.

577
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 9: In the United States, I would say five extra, right,

578
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 9: and that's the best case scenario. That's not the AGI scenario.

579
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 9: That's the better case scenario. And I almost feel that

580
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 9: people like Sam Mortman Elon Musk want to talk about AGI,

581
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 9: so we don't talk about the wealth inequality, the regional inequality,

582
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 9: the global inequality. Because the only two countries in this

583
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 9: rice to China in the US the only two countries.

584
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 9: The European Union is not the races, not the Global

585
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 9: South is at the rices. And so that to me

586
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 9: is the big conversation. Even if you think HI is

587
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 9: not plausible, this is still a massive political challenge.

588
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. And to your point, you know,

589
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: some of the consequences may already be here. We can

590
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: put E five up on the screen. There was an

591
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: article in New York Times. I'm a LinkedIn executive. I

592
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: see the bottom rung of the career ladder breaking. And

593
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: you know, it makes sense that the type of work

594
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: that new college grads tend to do, sort of like

595
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: entry level office, white collar jobs, that that would be

596
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 2: the first place that you really spot an impact. So

597
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: in particular, college grad unemployment is at thirty percent here

598
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: in the US, which is quite high. We also see

599
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: a huge spike in applications to law school, which is

600
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: also it tends to be a recession indicator because people

601
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: feel like, oh, you know, I want to go out

602
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: in the job market now, so let me just continue

603
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: my schooling. But it also could be an indicator here

604
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 2: of you know, people realizing those entry level desk jobs

605
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: where you're doing spreadsheet analysis, or you're you know, when

606
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: you're coming out of law school the first year, you know,

607
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: first year out and you're doing all of this kind

608
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: of grunt, relatively routine work. For the more senior level partners,

609
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 2: those will be the first things to go where maybe

610
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: instead of hiring twenty new fresh on a law school students,

611
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: maybe you hire five and give them chat GPT to

612
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: do your first right of you know, whatever you're drafting.

613
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: So in some ways it seems that the pernicious effects

614
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: are already starting to show up. You know, Arin, what

615
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: are what are some of the areas where you think

616
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: we should be sort of most if we're thinking about

617
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: triaging this situation, what are some of the areas that

618
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: you think we should focus on most immediately?

619
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 6: Well, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

620
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 9: So with the emergence of general purpose robotics in manufacturing,

621
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 9: you know, we saw white collar communities be destroyed basically

622
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 9: over the last thirty five forty years, particularly in the UK,

623
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 9: also the US, much of Western Europe. Many of those

624
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 9: jobs went abroad, as people like Donald Trump likes to

625
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 9: talk about, but many, many, many more were automated. I

626
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 9: think We're going to see something similar with regards to

627
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 9: machine learning and white collar jobs that you say they

628
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 9: won't be replaced, just like you know, we still manufacture

629
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 9: cars here in the UK with a half fire, far

630
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 9: higher rather productivity per person per our works as far

631
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 9: fewer people doing the work. I think something similar is

632
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 9: going to happen to these kinds of jobs. And I

633
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 9: think the first implication that you should draw out of

634
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 9: that is a political one. Peter Turchin did a great

635
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 9: book a few years ago and he talked about this

636
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 9: idea of elite overproduction. And I do think that when

637
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 9: automation deprives lots of ambitious, you know, often moderate to

638
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 9: highly intelligent young people of a career that they expected,

639
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 9: they've put themselves in a ton of debt. They feel

640
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 9: that they've played by the rules and everything that was

641
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 9: asked of them, and then and then they're still back

642
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 9: at square one, and you have that elite overproduction and

643
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 9: they think, well, I should be a part of the

644
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 9: body politic, I should be playing a role. I should

645
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 9: have an impact on public life like anybody else. These

646
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 9: are people who believe in the idea of citizenship and

647
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 9: shaping politics and having agency you know, that's generally how

648
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 9: the middle class conceive of themselves. If you see those

649
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 9: people all of a sudden being annihilated by the jobs market,

650
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 9: I think that's going to create all kinds of really

651
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 9: weird political outgrowths. And I think actually, if you look

652
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 9: at for instance, Europe right now, with the growth of

653
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 9: the far right, there's a cliche in places like England

654
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 9: that older people tended to vote for Brexit, which is true.

655
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 9: Older people tend to be more right wing in this country,

656
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 9: that's true. But if you look at Italy, the Netherlands, France,

657
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 9: these countries whore actually the young.

658
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 6: You are, the more likely you are to vote for

659
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 6: the far right.

660
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 9: I wonder if within that set of circumstances, immigration, stagnating

661
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 9: living standards, you know, all the things that are already there,

662
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 9: Like if you throw into that job losses for middle

663
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 9: class people who may just have had otherwise moderate politics,

664
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 9: I wonder what happens, And it feels like a bit

665
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 9: of a it feels like a bit of a tinderbox.

666
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 9: Over the next ten to fifteen years, I think you'll

667
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,479
Speaker 9: have many of those people go to the radical left.

668
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 9: I think you'll also have many of those people go

669
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 9: to the radical right identity politics of white supremacism and

670
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 9: white nationalism, you know, euroinationalism, et cetera. And so that

671
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 9: to me is the big thing that happens next to Crystal,

672
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 9: because we're in the game of politics and analysis but

673
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 9: also persuasion. And that's something I'm really worried about is that,

674
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 9: you know, the young guys today who are going to

675
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 9: go work for McKinsey or for Deloitte or you know,

676
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 9: a magic circle law firm, that's all taken away from

677
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 9: them and they get highly politicized, they become proletarianized, downwardly mobile,

678
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 9: and they break to the right. I think that's politically

679
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 9: very very concerning over the next decade or two.

680
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: And so as a leftist, how do you think about

681
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: that and how do you think about the program that

682
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: should be offered to about that? Because I think it's

683
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 2: abundantly clear that neoliberalism does not offer anything approaching an

684
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: adequate solution to the problems of today, let alone the

685
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: problems of tomorrow.

686
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I.

687
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 9: Think you know, we're going to have the right analysis

688
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 9: on this, and like you say, the next question is, well,

689
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 9: what's the propositional response right now? The nativist right will say,

690
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 9: to these young people who've just lost everything, maybe I'm

691
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 9: being a bit dramatic, because they still have wealthy parents

692
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 9: that still inherit some wealth, but they certainly won't be

693
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 9: as wealthy as their parents were. Generally speaking, the response

694
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 9: should be if you want a future, if you want

695
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 9: to be part of a constructive political project, if you

696
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 9: want to be somebody, if you want to be part something.

697
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 6: Bigger than you, then only the left can provide that.

698
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 9: And I do think that's going to be tied up

699
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 9: with a word that's now on vogue in the US, Crystal,

700
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 9: which is abundance. I do think that's going to be

701
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 9: tied up by that agenda. You can have a future

702
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 9: of scarcity, or you can have a future of abundance scarcity.

703
00:38:58,760 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: And this doesn't mean.

704
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 9: You have to open borders as a left if I'm

705
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 9: not saying that, but the emphasis on excluding others only

706
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 9: constructing a society where we all look and sound the same,

707
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 9: I think if you look at the political economy of

708
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 9: that project on the nativist, white supremacist right, I think,

709
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 9: going hand in hand with that, it is no real

710
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 9: political technological answer to the stuff we've just talked about AI,

711
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 9: machine learning, etc. Who owns these, who benefits from these?

712
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 9: Because ultimately these are extraordinary tools. They have the ability

713
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 9: to either create the world's first trillionaire, as I said,

714
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 9: predicted by Mark Cuban, or you know, we can have

715
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 9: three publicly available universal access to high speed rail and

716
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 9: buses within ten to fifteen years.

717
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 6: Why not, you know? And I think that has to

718
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 6: be the agenda that we offer.

719
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 9: But I think what's interesting for me and against something

720
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 9: I got wrong, is I feel like the future.

721
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 6: Will have aspects of the past.

722
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 9: And I didn't really understand this when I wrote the book,

723
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 9: but I feel like we're going to see a emergence

724
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 9: of nineteenth century politics, territorial annexation, ethnic identity politics, et cetera.

725
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 9: That's going to go hand in hand with some really advanced,

726
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 9: hyper advanced technologies. And that's that that's what makes the

727
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 9: situation so hard to read, you know, and a good

728
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 9: you'll kind of have to sort of invite me here

729
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 9: because you read my book, a good book, a good novel.

730
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 9: To think of this all through as the is the

731
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 9: book June, I think, which offers a really interesting prism.

732
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 6: On the one hand, you have hyper.

733
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 9: Advanced technologies accompanying effectively a quasi feudal political order. And

734
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 9: you know, we always presume that technological advance will go

735
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 9: hand in hand with you know, social political advance, or

736
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 9: at least be linear progression. Right, I suspect we may

737
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 9: we may start to see that sort of disconnecting. You know,

738
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 9: we might see societies moving away from a quality end

739
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 9: of the law back towards feudal kind of feudal social

740
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 9: ties combined with out special intelligence. I know I might

741
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 9: send a bit crazy here, but I think.

742
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 7: No, I mean, I.

743
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: Think anyone who's really paying attention already sees the signs

744
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: of that. You know, Naomi Kline who actually came up

745
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: earlier in the show, and I was talking to Emma Vigeland.

746
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 2: She talks about this prepper mentality. But at the nation

747
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: state level where you're you know, and you see it

748
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: in the US with Trump. You know, we're going to

749
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: take Greenland, We're going to take Gaza, We're going to

750
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: take Panama. You know, we're going to do this exploitative

751
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: like colonial style minerals deal with Ukraine where it's you know, okay,

752
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 2: we're not pretending that we care about democracy and human

753
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 2: rights anymore, except when it comes apparently to white people

754
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: in South Africa, that's all out the window. But we

755
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 2: are going to do old school territorial acquisition and imperialism.

756
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he models himself after William McKinley, who's like

757
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: a turn of the century president and who was the

758
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,479
Speaker 2: first to sort of expand the US empire. Talks about

759
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: manifest destiny and it really is this like Prepper mentality,

760
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 2: except applied to an entire nation. And then of course

761
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: Curtis Yarvin, who's been intellectually influential with this administration, especially

762
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: with like the tech but Peter Til's and those people

763
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: and Jade Vance Elon Musk within the administration, you know,

764
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: they he explicitly argues for a techno feudalist future, and

765
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: Peter Tile has funded some of these techno feudalist societies

766
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 2: as little you know, trial runs on what that could

767
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 2: look like.

768
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 7: So I don't think it.

769
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: I think if you're paying attention to those things, you

770
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: already see the signs of the direction that you're that

771
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: you're predicting here.

772
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 9: Well, I'm glad you I'm glad you agree, But you know,

773
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 9: if you listen to people in legacy media, most mainstream analysis,

774
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 9: although that's slightly changing. They think that that stuff is

775
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 9: for the birds. But I couldn't agree more. Take Trump

776
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 9: for since, with this his enthusiasm to have africaner migrants

777
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 9: refugees come to the United States, you can almost see

778
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 9: and look, I don't know, I don't know Donal Trump

779
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 9: and has never met the man. I'm certainly not. I'm

780
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 9: not in the habit of ventriloquizing. White people are doing

781
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 9: things and what they might say to excuse their actions.

782
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 9: But you can almost see Trump and the people around

783
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 9: them saying, well, look, it's good European Africana stock. You know.

784
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 9: I don't know if you watch Rugby a crystal, but

785
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 9: you know South Africatia they have lots of big Africanas

786
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 9: six foot ten, you know, two hundred and thirty kilos.

787
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 6: That's what they have.

788
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 9: Environment of good white European stock comes to the US,

789
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 9: and like you say, it's a mindset that sounds like

790
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 9: something from one hundred and fifty two hundred years ago.

791
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 9: But I feel like that's the world where we're moving towards.

792
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 9: And you have right now, and who knows right it's

793
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 9: a very volatile political coalition that Trump has. But you

794
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 9: have this extraordinary political coalition that includes people like that,

795
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 9: and at the same time, you know people like Teal,

796
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 9: multi billionaires, very very powerful people who are at the

797
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 9: front of technological innovation in the United States. But of

798
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 9: course the big question is is the United States it's

799
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 9: going to remain at the forefront of global techological innovation

800
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 9: because the other player in this whole story is the

801
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 9: Chinese Communist Party, and for better or worse, they have

802
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 9: a very different model with regards to politics. Implicitly, I

803
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 9: think has a critique of capitalism. It's a market society,

804
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 9: but the politics of that society is not determined by

805
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 9: big C capital.

806
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 6: It's very different.

807
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 9: It actually has a national interest in its heart and

808
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 9: a people's interest it's heart that I think is fundamentally

809
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 9: different to the United States and some European countries. So

810
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 9: that to me is that is the intriguing conflict of

811
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 9: the next several decades as we move I think towards

812
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 9: AGI is what is that technology going to be programmed with?

813
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 9: What's the social software that's going to accompany it? A

814
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 9: company it I don't think it's going to be the

815
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 9: sort of liberal mores of the twentieth century.

816
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 6: I just don't think that's going to happen.

817
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 9: I think we're seeing the end of the post Second

818
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 9: World War social liberal order over and the question is

819
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 9: what's it going to be replaced by. I think the

820
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 9: left has hindered itself by repeatedly, for well for at

821
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 9: least fifteen years, by repeatedly tying itself to a failing,

822
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 9: collapsing liberal social order. We have to understand that if

823
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 9: we continue to do that in the West, at least

824
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 9: certainly in the anglophone countries, there'll only be one game

825
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 9: in town, which is the right. And again that might sound,

826
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 9: you know, hyperbolic. You're seeing signals of it now, you know.

827
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 9: I think, particularly with young men, this is what really

828
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 9: alarms me. I think if the next five years are

829
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 9: like the last five years, you're almost looking at hegemonic

830
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 9: politics of extremism amongst younger men, and that should really

831
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:45,959
Speaker 9: worry people.

832
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: I think last question for you, Aeron before I let

833
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: you go. I really appreciate you taking the time. You're

834
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: you know, very insightful to get your thoughts on this.

835
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: If you were advising a presidential candidate in twenty twenty

836
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: eight and you know put aside actually like what the

837
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: polls would say, But just think in terms of the

838
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: right policy. Would you advocate for freeze on a development,

839
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: would you advocate for the government basically like buying and

840
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: nationalizing these technologies? Like what do you think is the

841
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: correct direction at this point?

842
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 9: I suppose if you had something of a freeze on it,

843
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 9: the American deep state would get rid of you quite sharpish, right.

844
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 2: If I don't know, I don't really believe in American

845
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: deep state anymore. I feel like they would have taken

846
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: up for long ago if at the bomb market, that's

847
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 2: the real deep state, I think true.

848
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 6: No, you are right, that's true.

849
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 9: But you know, I think there's a very real possibility

850
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 9: that China if you did put the guard right, and

851
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 9: this is this is this is something which people I

852
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 9: don't like politically. This is something they're saying which is

853
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 9: probably true that if you didn't put guardrails on this stuff. Sorry,

854
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 9: if you did put guardrails and stuff in the United

855
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 9: States and the Chinese development, you are at a massive disadvantage.

856
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 6: I think that's true.

857
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 9: So you have a couple of options, right, you work

858
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 9: together to put guard rails on it. That would be

859
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 9: My priority is contract rails. Yeah, sure of that. And

860
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 9: if China's you know, sure of that. My policy would

861
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 9: be that the US government should have equity shares in

862
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 9: any major company with a market cap above a certain

863
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 9: amount developing AI. The United States government, federal government has

864
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 9: to have a five percent equity stake in that business.

865
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 9: We have to have people on your board. Sorry, it's

866
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 9: just too important. That might sound quite radical, quite extreme.

867
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 9: That's still a market economy, right, you still got private businesses.

868
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 9: But the point is people representing the body politic, the

869
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 9: American citizen large, that they'll be reflecting the kinds of

870
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 9: decisions that those companies make.

871
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 6: I mean, that's something I would do anyway.

872
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 9: The French do that, by the way, all their all

873
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 9: their big successful companies. The French government has a nice

874
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 9: equity share in them, and it means they're involved. Yeah,

875
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 9: so they're involved in those decisions. Now, you can have

876
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 9: stupid people in those organizations and they screw those businesses up.

877
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 6: That's not good.

878
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 9: But you know, the States seem to do pretty well,

879
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 9: right that. The Norwegian seems to do pretty well. Their

880
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 9: sovereign wealth fund is managed by government officials that they're

881
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 9: doing a great job.

882
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 6: So I mean that would be my one thing would

883
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 6: be you.

884
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 9: Know what, the United States government ship a five secuity

885
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 9: share in Apple, Nvidia, Tesla, you know, Meta, et cetera,

886
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:17,959
Speaker 9: et cetera.

887
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 6: That's probably what I would do.

888
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 9: And I'd also say, you want you want domestically produced microprocesses,

889
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 9: which is probably something that Trump gets right, but the

890
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 9: policy would be rather different. And again the business that's

891
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 9: doing that, which would be a little bit like what

892
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 9: the Taiwanese have done over the last thirty years with TSMC,

893
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 9: that would I think have to benefit from public funding,

894
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 9: and so it should probably be publicly owned.

895
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, I agree with all of that.

896
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it should not be left to like Elon Musk,

897
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: Sam Altman and Jeff Bezos to decide the future of society,

898
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: which at least get to have a little bit of

899
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: a democratic say in what happens, because otherwise we know

900
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: we know the end the end of the story, like tremendous,

901
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 2: unfathomable amounts of wealth and power accumulating in just a

902
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: handful of individuals who you know, regardless of whether you

903
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: like them or not. No one person should have that

904
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 2: level of power, and we know who it would come

905
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,439
Speaker 2: at the expense of as well, Aaron, tell people where

906
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: they can find you and anything else that you want

907
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: to plug and share with them. And again I really

908
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 2: recommend to people your book because I think it is

909
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: very I think it's very thought provoking, and I also

910
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: think sometimes on the left we can think sort of

911
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: small ball in a sense, and so just to read

912
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: something that was you know, expansive in its vision was

913
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: also very mind opening for me.

914
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 9: That's very kind. I mean, I do agree with you there.

915
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 9: And the people that think big right now are the right.

916
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 9: You know, people like you do to Mask Jeff Bezils,

917
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 9: they think big logistically, but also in terms of their vision.

918
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 6: They're thinking really big big.

919
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 9: You know, they're very serious about their project's Pete the

920
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 9: tail is thinking big. You know, this guy funds journals

921
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 9: for really your you know, minor French intellectuals because in

922
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 9: his mind he's trying to build something which outlasts him.

923
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 9: And I think we on the left should be doing

924
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 9: something similar. You know, in Virmedia, we've been going for

925
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 9: more than ten years now, we're close to fifteen. You know,

926
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 9: I want this organization to be here for long after

927
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 9: I'm gone, and whether or not that happens is another question,

928
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 9: and I think that's what the Left needs to do

929
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 9: is think big, think long term. You know we are

930
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 9: we are people within history with people within a movement

931
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 9: which was around a long long time before us and

932
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 9: hopefully long time afterwards, and we need to leave it

933
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 9: in a much better stay than we found it sitting

934
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 9: in the English speaking world. In terms of where people

935
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 9: can find me, I'm on x at arab Bustani and

936
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 9: on Instagram. That's mostly my family and my dog. In

937
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 9: terms of Naviro Media, you can find us on Instagram,

938
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 9: x TikTok everywhere, YouTube of course, just in Environ media.

939
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 9: We're closing on a million subscribers on YouTube. We're trying

940
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 9: our best to imitate you guys over there, so if

941
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 9: people can subscribe to us as well, then you know

942
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 9: that's good, might help help us get over the million monk.

943
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 7: Amazing.

944
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, you guys do fantastic work, so I know you

945
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: will reach that milestone in no time at all. Erin

946
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 2: thank you so much. I hope you come back all right, guys.

947
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: That does it for us. Thank you so much for

948
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: watching today. Ryan and Emily will be in tomorrow. Thank

949
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: you for bearing with whatever's going on with my face.

950
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 2: I also if my brain seemed a little bit out

951
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: of it today. My cat was missing for a while.

952
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: She is now returned, but I was very freaked out

953
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: and worried about that. But kitty is back, my face

954
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: will be fine. Thank you guys for watching, and I

955
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: will see you on Thursday.