1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon. 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, I'm joined 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: by Mark Haslin, the two thousand nineteen n D a 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: Dear Manager of the Year, to discuss his lessons learned 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: and best practices for improving whitetail habitat in the Southeast. 8 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: All Right, welcome back to the Wire to Hunt podcast, 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: brought to you by First Light Tan the show, we 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: are continuing to talk habitat. We're gonna be discussing in particular, 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: southern white tail habitat, and I think a lot we're 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: going to discuss will be replicable and relevant to you 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: if you're in the Midwest or the Northeast, but I'm 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: giving a little extra love to those of you down 15 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: in the South. My guest today, Mark Haslum, hails from 16 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: the southeast. He's got a family farm down in South Carolina, 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: and today we're gonna be talking about the story of 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 1: this place. We're gonna be talking about what he's learned 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: in the many years since he began managing. You know, 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: last week we talked to some guys who have just 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: recently gotten into the land management game. They've been into 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: it just a few years. Today with Mark, he's been 23 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: doing this for fifteen plus years, diving really deep into 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: this and learning really the ups, downs, ins and outs 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: of what it takes to improve a piece of ground 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: managed a digger herd, and and enjoy it. So we're 27 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: gonna discuss everything from timber management, hinge cutting, clear cutting, 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: planting pines, doing u dormant season burns, the pros and 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: cons of food plots, getting natural food plots, going uh 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: Sunheim Conservation, Eastman's uh shoe. Who knows what else. A 31 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: whole bunch of else is hit on in this one. 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Marks a great guy. He's actually gonna be contributing a 33 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: little bit more to Wired to Hunt for us in 34 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: the future, so look for articles from him coming down 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: the line over on the Wired Hunt website as well. 36 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: And uh, He's got a lot to offer. So that 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: is my pitch for today's episode. I hope you're gonna 38 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: stick around, hope you enjoy this one. If you've been 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: out there working the ground already, I think this will 40 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 1: be just what you need to inspire the next weekend 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: or the next weeknight of work. So thanks for being here. 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: Let's get to my chat with Mark. Has them all 43 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: right here with me now on the show I've Got 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: Mark HASLM. Mark. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Mark. 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad to be here. Tell you what You've 46 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: got a good name. Right off the bat, I gotta 47 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: tell you that this is it's always good to have 48 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: a fella Mark on this show. That hasn't happened too often, 49 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: so I like that. But uh, in all seriousness, Uh, 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: it's it's great to have on here. I've I've been 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, kind of following some of your work from 52 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: AFAR over the years. Mark, I've I've seen how you've 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: been doing a really great job of showcasing and sharing 54 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: your family farm with other people and mentor new hunters. 55 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: I saw when he won the Dear Manager of the 56 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: Year award and thought to myself, Man, he seems like 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: someone who's very deserving of that. And I started reading 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: more of your work and kind of just seeing what 59 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: you're doing on social media. Um, just recently, I know 60 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: we've we've gotten you starting to do a little bit 61 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: of writing for us at Wired to Hunt. Sou and short. 62 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: This is a this is a conversation. I'm really glad 63 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: we're having and uh, I know you've got a lot 64 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: to offer, so so thanks for making time to be here. 65 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: What was what was that experience like, Mark, before we 66 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: get into the real meat and potatoes of what I 67 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: want to talk about, What was that experience like when 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: you found out that you won the Dear Manager of 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: the Year award from the National Deer Association. Was that 70 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: was that something that you thought, oh, yeah, this is 71 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: coming my way someday or were you surprised by that? Um? 72 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely shocked. M. I both my father and I did 73 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: not see that coming. UM. We we put on a 74 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: at the time a q d m A mentored hunt 75 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: UM that previous fall, and we invited Joe Hamilton's the 76 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: founder of q d m A now the National Deer 77 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: Association UM, and Joe Hamilton's just absolute national treasure UM. 78 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: And he saw what we were doing. He he resides 79 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: about an hour and a half from our farm, and 80 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: he saw what we were doing and UM in the 81 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: longevy that we were doing things the farm and UM, 82 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: I had no clue. Dad and I were planning to 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: attend Whitetail Weekend later that I guess we marked and um, 84 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: when Joe started to read our uh background while before 85 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: giving the the award, that was very surreal. Absolutely was 86 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: because for me, I'm a life I was a lifelong 87 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: qtumn remember going back to the mid like nineties, back 88 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: when we were in a hunting club, and so that 89 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: was very much surreal and just shock for me. Yeah, 90 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. And I guess that's a great place 91 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: for us to start, because I think that this this 92 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: award you were given, I think is representative of the 93 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: work and the transformation that you guys put into place 94 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: over the last fifteen years or so on this this 95 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: farm that Joe visited with you down in South Carolina. 96 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: From what I understand, your family, you guys acquired this 97 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: place back in two thousand six, right, Can you can 98 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: you fill me in on you know, what's what's the 99 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: family farm look like? What was this place like when 100 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: you stepped foot on it so many years ago? Originally 101 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: it was a raw piece of land. And when I 102 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: see a raw piece of land, um it uh. It 103 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: was being maintained by a forster. It was um it 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: was in a family that originally owned a much larger 105 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: piece have been passed down through many generations. I think 106 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: it was about twelve or fourteen different owners that had 107 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: a sign off um on the sale that actually had 108 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: to track some people down. But it was one of 109 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: those classic, you know examples of you know, a piece 110 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: of property that was in a family for a long 111 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: period of time and none of the current owners had 112 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: any um uh you know, ties to the land. They 113 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: had a forster that was maintaining the force your work 114 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: and then sending checks you know when they cut timber, 115 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: and they leased the hunting rights out to a hunting club. Um. 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: So it was a very raw piece of land. And 117 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: but that's what drew it, drew us to it. And 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: it was a good location, being somewhat centered between uh 119 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: two very long you know, two of the closer uh city. 120 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: So when you start to distance yourself from larger cities, 121 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: you're starting to see the price per acre, in the 122 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: price of dirt dip down before it rises back up 123 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: going to the next city. So what about the terrain 124 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: and habitat? I mean, I know nothing about South Carolina, 125 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: So can you paint a picture for me what this 126 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: ground looks like? What kind of plant life. Is this 127 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: swampy wet stuff as this high ground is as hilly 128 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: as this big timber. What's what was the break down there? 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: This would be considered the midlands of South Carolina, the 130 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: lower western part of the state. It's right on the 131 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: just north of the low country area, which is mostly 132 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: coastal plains. The coastal plains would run all the way 133 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: from South Carolina all the way to Alabama, Mississippi. UM. 134 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: And it's exactly what it sounds like. Very flat. I 135 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: mean I I live in Savannah and we are at 136 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: sea level right now, so it's very flat. But we're 137 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: right on the north side of that. And just when 138 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: the state starts to get a little bit of terrain 139 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: features slight rolling hills, elevation drops, I would call them hills. 140 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: Living at sea level, UM. Some of our elevation drops 141 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: would be ten or fifty um. There are We do 142 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: have a couple Carolina bays, which is a geological term 143 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: and the idea of the theory which I think has 144 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: been some substantial evidence, but there were some meteors way 145 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: back when that hit hit the ground and created some 146 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: oval shaped depressions, and so those are called Carolina bays. 147 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: We do have a several spring fed creeks, uh, some 148 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: swamps and bottom land um, but it's primarily upon arm 149 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: and that's what you see a lot in this in 150 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: this region of the southeast, and the highest best use 151 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: would be growing pine trees with a good amount of 152 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: acreage for cultivated fields farmland. Okay, so what about the 153 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: wildlife population, the deer population when you guys showed up 154 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: there in two thousand and six, what what did that like? 155 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: Was this place flourishing already or were you starting with 156 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of a fixer upper. It was certainly 157 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: a fixer upper. It was a it was a great 158 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: piece of property. It had been in a hunting club 159 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: I think for several decades um. And with that, we 160 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: did not know exactly what they were, what their goals were, 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: and what they were harvesting. Based on some of the 162 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: information that we received and actually talking to them, and 163 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: they they still have a club in existence, I think 164 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: they were. They weren't practicing, you know, all the fundamentals 165 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: of the QDM model Quality Deer manage a model. It 166 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: was perfectly fine. I mean, that's legal to do. But 167 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were letting young box walk, 168 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: so we didn't know what we had. A sparts Box 169 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: definitely has some deer on the property, um very little 170 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: turkeys and at the time no quail, no Bob white quail. 171 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: But you know, we just did not know what we 172 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: had as far as the deer population. And then I 173 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: guess what were you hoping for? Like when you guys 174 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: step foot, like, what were you hoping? What? When? What 175 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: am I trying to say, I'm trying to stay here. 176 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: What were your hopes and dreams and goals for this place? 177 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: Because it sounds like you were pretty serious and the 178 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting already having been a kidium a member for 179 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: a long time. So when you step foot on that 180 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: farm in two ousan six, was it okay, we're gonna 181 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: go gung ho doing everything we've learned about from reading 182 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: the magazine and studying these things over the years, or 183 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: or what was the plan when you guys began this journey. 184 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: The plan was to take it very very slow. Well, 185 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: actually I should say that the plan was to take 186 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: it slow, but we ended up over time just taking 187 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: it very very slow. Originally just step stepping foot the property. 188 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: My my short term plan was to put some tree 189 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: stands on some of the act fields, UM that they 190 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: had peanuts or corn and just hunt is wait until 191 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: I saw, you know, a one sixty inch come out. 192 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: I just had, you know, we just didn't know what 193 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: we had. We knew that the deer population would be 194 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: a lot different than what we were used to hunting 195 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: UM on the coastal plaine of the coastal South Carolina 196 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: coastal Georgia. But we didn't know what what we had. 197 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: The plan was just to take it slow, observe um 198 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: and just right off the back, keep doing what we 199 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: were doing uh in our hunting club UM for many 200 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: many years, and that is keeping good hunter observations now 201 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: still away due to this day, keeping a hunting observation 202 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: log everything you see UM on the sand and then 203 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: a course to harvest log data. UM. But we I 204 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: did shoot my first buck on the property I think 205 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: to the third or fourth season, and that was just 206 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: a process of letting. I let a lot of bucks walked. 207 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: In hindsight, I probably would have known what I know 208 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: now would have shot, but we just we weren't really 209 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: sure what we had and when we were and when 210 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: I say that we were basing that off some friends 211 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: of ours that had similar type properties but had been 212 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,599 Speaker 1: managing it and pritic seeing the QTa model for a 213 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: lot longer, So we just didn't know if that was 214 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: something that where we could kind of slip right into 215 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: and tweak a couple of things or it. And it 216 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: ended up being uh uh, you know, a five or 217 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: six year plan to kind of get it to where 218 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: we were consistently seeing UM mature box on the stand 219 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: and on straw camera and then being able to maintain 220 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 1: and observe and understand our dear herd. You know, I 221 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: want to go back to something you said about UM 222 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: one of the things you carried over from your hunting 223 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: club days, which was really good hunting or hunter observations 224 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: and harvest observations and records. Can you walk me through 225 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: you know what that actually means? How were you doing that? 226 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: What kind of things are you taking note of? You know, 227 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: was this in an actual journal that you carry with 228 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: you everywhere? Like? How do you actually do this? Well? Absolutely, 229 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: I'd love to UM. You know this is this is 230 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: just a classic q d M fundamental practice, and that 231 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: is you know, your your your hunter observation on the 232 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: stand and your harvest data log. So you know, this 233 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: goes back to our hunting club and I the earliest 234 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: I can remember being there is in kindergarten, just wearing 235 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: one of those insulated old school camo jumpsuits, probably michelin Man, 236 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: and I couldn't even like move my arms the good 237 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: old days, that's right. Um So, but what we you 238 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: know nowadays there there are apps uh for hunt clubs 239 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: where you can sign in and sign out on your 240 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: on your phone. But we had a clubhouse and there 241 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: was a little bulletin board um right there in the 242 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: clubhouse where you sign it and you you know, you 243 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: you put a magnet on the aerial map of where 244 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: are you gonna hunt, put your name in, and then 245 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: you sign out and we sign out. You put what 246 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: you saw or if you shot something uh at the 247 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: skinning shed, you would take the live weight. Um. We 248 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily doing all these things at the hunt club, 249 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: but we had tweaked it to where um at our 250 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: farm we were you know at the end the hunt 251 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: writing everything we saw as far as white tails breaking 252 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: it down within fawns. Um. You know, if it's if 253 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: it's a skilled hunter or hunter that we feel like 254 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: knows what they're looking at, we will put button bucks 255 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: or do fon if not just simply fawns doze, and 256 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: then antler bucks and depending on you know, if someone's confident, 257 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: you know what particular buck they saw six point point 258 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: eight point, maybe it's a two year old eight point, 259 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: maybe it's a four year old eight point and then um, 260 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: the harvest log and this is harvest law. I mean, 261 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: both are an imperative, but the harvest log is very 262 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: very key. And everyone doesn't have a skinning shed on 263 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: their property. Everyone doesn't have a scale on the property. 264 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: So some people take their dear to a processor. And 265 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: back in the day before we had a skinning shed, 266 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, I would wait at the processor until he 267 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: or she weighed my dear so I could get the 268 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: weight and the jawbone because I did not want to 269 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: leave and potentially them not weigh it. Um. But when 270 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: you have that data, here are some of the highlight 271 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: bullet points that you can get from it. From the 272 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: hunter observation you'll see at the at the end of 273 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: the season. And this is what we do right now. 274 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: You know, after the season, rolling into the following fall 275 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: is you'll you'll get a breakdown as far as how 276 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: many does you saw an average per hunt? How many 277 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: bucks you saw on average per hunt? Um your buck 278 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: to dough ratio. I mean that's you know, we use 279 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: a uh an online service. It's very inexpensive and you 280 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: upload all this information. What's it called uh The website 281 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: that we use is called deer manage dot com and 282 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: it'll you just up put all all the data and 283 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: it breaks down it gives you the estimate of bucks 284 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: to the ratio, which is that alone is one of 285 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: the top points to focus on and in one sidebar 286 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: that and why it's important was because after about ten 287 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: or ten or so years, when we had went really 288 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: had the farm fine tuned UM, we were starting to 289 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: get a lot of bucks on camera. We had we 290 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: were growing bucks and we were sing bucks in person. 291 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: And we went through that phase where we were hunting 292 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: more bucks than we were regulating the dose and our 293 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: dough numbers are do dough harvest dipped down, and what 294 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: we saw was our bucket do ratios shot up way 295 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: out of whack. And so for the past number of 296 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: years we've been just hammering the does trying to catch up. 297 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: That's why that's imported. You'll also get the fun recruitment. 298 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: You know, what's your fun recruitment like. And that's why 299 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: taking those uh you know, jotting down or you know fonts, 300 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: that's that's important. You know, people are concerned about kynotes 301 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: and you know trapping or do you have adequate uh 302 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: phone betting um. And then also for instance, if you're 303 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: seeing one antlerd buck for every ten doze, that could 304 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: be a problem. If you're seeing one antlerd buck for 305 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: every fifteen plus or fifteen or twenty does, that's a 306 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: major problem. You've got way too many does. And sure 307 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: you might still kill some large bucks, but you're bucket 308 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: devior ratio is way out of whack. And there's you know, 309 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: if you're listening to podcasts, you probably understand what that 310 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: can cause as far as the ruts and then fawns dropping, 311 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: and then with the with the with the harvest log, 312 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: you're extracting extracting the jawbone, which is you know, besides 313 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: sending off the jawbone to get tested the teeth. I mean, 314 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: that's one of the top ways of actually aging a deer, 315 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: taking a live weight. And then for instance, like if 316 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: it's a dough wasn't lactating. Wasn't lactating in September, Well, 317 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: that's common, that's good. Was it lactating in November? That's 318 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot longer. If you're if it's if a dough 319 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: is lighttating in November December, that can tell you some 320 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: things about your ruts and about the button dough ratio um. 321 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: And that's just a excellent way to keep track of 322 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: your of your deer population. Are they are the weights 323 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: trending up or trending down. It's just there's a there's 324 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: a lot of different things you can and then you 325 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: can look at this all kinds of data. Francis Moon. 326 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: So this website will factor the moon in and it'll 327 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: show you how many deer on average you're seeing with 328 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: every moon phase, um, temperature, wind, everything like that has 329 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: that has that level of analysis kind of highlighted any 330 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: kind of correlation with the moon or anything. I mean, 331 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: this is just like a pet project favored of mine, 332 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: always talking about these things and looking into that. And 333 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, one of the big pieces of pushback along 334 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: the lines for most of that is that there's not 335 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: a lot of peer viewed research that can point to 336 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: a connection between any of those factors like the moon, temperature, 337 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: bare metric pressure, and deer movement. But so many hunters 338 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: feel like there is have you seen anything line up 339 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: with that with your own data? I can send you 340 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: the data and I can, and I'll be willing to 341 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: post on social media. But there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever 342 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: between hunter observation and the moon vase deer movement. There's 343 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: just not It's there is no chance aange whatsoever with 344 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: the moon face. You know, I personally, I was smiling 345 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: when when you brought this up. I personally just get 346 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: a chuckle out of the moon. I feel like a 347 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: lot of people just they they tend to hunt when 348 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: they feel like they have you know, some people, some 349 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: people can pick and choose when they hunt based on 350 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: whatever condition they like. And some people, maybe like you 351 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: and me, they have a couple of kids and a 352 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: job and a and a wife and a household, and 353 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: we we we hunt, we excuse me, we hunt when 354 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: we can um and that's typically, uh, you know, without 355 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: even looking at data, the best times to hunt, in 356 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: the best places to hunt and when to hunt are 357 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: going to be early or places where there's been very 358 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: little pressure. And yeah, so in my opinion, it makes 359 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: a little sense. Um, I want to rewind the tape 360 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: a little bit to to where a lot of this began, 361 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: because it seems like, you know, taking the the level 362 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: of detail that you're looking at things that the records 363 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: you're keeping, that that must have really helped inform so 364 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: many of the decisions you guys made along the way 365 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: since you had real data to look at. But I'm 366 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: sure that especially in those early years, you had some 367 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: false starts. Um. You know, on my back forty project, 368 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: for example, a few years ago, I had plenty of 369 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: false starts when I was getting into this whole world 370 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: of kind of taking that next step in land management. 371 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious what those look like for you guys. 372 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: Can you if you thought about those first gosh five years, 373 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: maybe does anything stand out as as some of the 374 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: biggest mistakes you made in those early years or something 375 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: that you just really got wrong? Um, does anything come 376 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: to mind? Well? How much time do we have? Um? Yes, 377 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: to answer your question, Yes, there's definitely a lot. Some 378 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: items that come to min would be UM, planting trees, 379 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: we would we bought some fruit trees early on, and 380 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: that that weren't really eaten suitable for that area h 381 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 1: South Carolina. We plant some oak trees, uh, a lot 382 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: of sawtooth oaks, which a lot of people you know. 383 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: Now there was a little bit of pushback as far 384 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: as planting those. UM. I still like him. But we 385 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: we we we plant some of these trees far too 386 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: close together, did not space them out, um far enough 387 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: um food plots, you know. UM, we weren't doing soul 388 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: samples originally and before we really opened up some of 389 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: the property, we were squeezing food plots in wherever we 390 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: could because the previous hunters were not planning food plots. 391 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: There was a farmer there's a couple hundred acres of 392 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: farm land, so he had that uh to hunt over 393 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: or to hunt around. But we were squeezing food plots 394 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: a lot, and like on firebreaks or roads that we 395 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: didn't use as much, or little fallow areas and and 396 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: a lot of those areas did not get sunlight, very 397 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: little sunlight. Um. And that was yeah, that was primarily 398 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: a that was a bust because you buy seed and 399 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: you and you plan it. We weren't. We weren't spraying 400 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: um for we control. We weren't doing the soul samples 401 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: and then you're not you're not really monitoring really what 402 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: what what comes up? Is it weeds popping up? Or 403 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: is the plan that you that you plan with a 404 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: seed um and then a stand location. Um. You know, 405 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: some of the stand locations we had early on were 406 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: around roads, um, and that was just a factor of 407 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: not really having the time yet to open the property up. 408 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: But sometimes hunters, and this is what we were guilty of, 409 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: we put deer stands where we thought the best places 410 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: would be based on just our preferences. But we weren't 411 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: necessarily basing any one where the deer are. How do 412 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: the deer use our property? Where are they coming from, 413 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: where are they batting? Where are they going? Um? You know, 414 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: not basing the stand location stands set up based on 415 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: the deer movement. We're basing on one. You know what 416 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: we're best for us. I think that's something that a 417 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: lot of folks, myself included, are guilty of. So so 418 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: plenty of mistakes along the way. What what was if 419 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: you could if there's anything that kind of fits this, 420 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: what was the impetus for positive change? Like if it 421 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: was there anything you can point back to where things 422 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: all of a sudden started to click. Did you change 423 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 1: something with your food plots and all of a sudden, oh, 424 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: now things are coming together. Or did you open up 425 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: these new roads or new access points to allow you 426 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: to hunt deeper into the property and then all of 427 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: a sudden that was what changed things. Was there any 428 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: big epiphany or light switch moment, you know, where you 429 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: kind of hit a fork in the road and all 430 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden the results started changing. Was there any 431 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of lying in the sand where all of a 432 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: sudden everything was different after that, I would say to 433 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: answer that question, was probably the first UM logging contract 434 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: we had the farm, and the first UM the first 435 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: time I have some a timber crew on the farm 436 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: to cut pine trees too. The first cut was just 437 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: a thin. It was actually a combination to thin some 438 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: trees and what that did was open up so the 439 00:25:54,400 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: canopy gets more sunlight in UM. And then they also 440 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 1: created some loading decks. So when you cut pine trees, 441 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: there's a site usually that they clear cut, like a 442 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, a smaller site where they clear cut first, 443 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: and then that's where they're loading the timber. That's where 444 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: they're the machines are dragging the timber. And then then 445 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: then then they're loading it on the semi trucks. So 446 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: when that's done, what we did on those old loading 447 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: decks was to clean it up. We stumped it and 448 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: then cleaned up all all the leftover debris, burned every 449 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, burned the leftover debris, and then converted those 450 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: into food plots. Um. That was a huge change for 451 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: us because that gave us an actual smaller spield that 452 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: maybe like a quarter acre or half acre to play 453 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: a food plot. Um. And then with a thinning and 454 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: that allowed uh exposed sunlight, open the canopy up to 455 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: get more sunlight UH on the ground, disturb the ground 456 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: and get some natural growth um. And then combined with that, 457 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: they also widened the road for us. They cut some 458 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: trees along the roads, why the roads better. We did 459 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: some did some roadwork. When you why the roads, especially 460 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: in the South, it helps dry the roads out. It 461 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 1: helps to you know, dry them out, the sun hits 462 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: it as not as muddy. UM. That was probably just 463 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: the start of being involved with the forest to work. 464 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: And then that next cut, which wasn't that far after, 465 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: we ended up clear cutting uh two sections that were 466 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: very close to each other that had some ice damage, 467 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: and it was one of those where we could either 468 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: just let that timber stand be um and it's not 469 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: gonna produce as well as it should because there's some 470 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: ice damage, or clear cut it. At the time we 471 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: knew the best option for our income to maximize income 472 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: on the pond stand, but we were I was, I 473 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: was not looking forward to a clear cut at all. 474 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: And after they clear cut their sections right right in 475 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: the middle of the property, they weren't all that big, 476 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: probably two sections that may be equal to about fifty 477 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: or sixty acres um. It just looked like a waste land. 478 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it looked like a bomb went off. Um. 479 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: But over the next couple of years being able to 480 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: hunt around that clear cut afterwards planned with entrees hunting 481 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: around it, and then when it thickened up to become 482 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: just an incredible white tail betting thicket, which was what 483 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: pond thickets do. When when you really plan, that's when 484 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: things really started to click with me as far as 485 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: how we can manipulate the landscape to not only do 486 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: the force you wore, but then also to better of 487 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: the wildlife habitat and to better the hunt ability of 488 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: the farm. M HM. So I read somewhere that you 489 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: believe that timber management is now the single greatest tool 490 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: you have in your goals towards growing mature bucks and 491 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: maintaining a healthy deer. Heard, can you can you expand 492 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: a little bit on what you just just on what 493 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: you just told me. They're about why you find this 494 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: to be such a powerful tool. Yes, So you know 495 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: the South is very heavy with with with tree farms, 496 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: pond farms, and it's exactly what it's said. I mean, 497 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: it's exactly what I what I said. I mean, it's 498 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: you you have an inventory of trees that your crop 499 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: and that's what you're growing for you know, thirty plus 500 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: years depending on the species. And you know a lot 501 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: of people some people might not do much t aside 502 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: timmerstand improvement. They might not do much work at all 503 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: um on their farm. But some of the some of 504 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: the things that you can do to blend there's a 505 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: way that you can blend the forestry work to grow 506 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: trees for income for a profit and then maintain a 507 00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: healthy wildlife habitat um. I've already mentioned t s I 508 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: timberse and improvement, thinning. I've already mentioned I've already mentioned thinning. 509 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: When pine trees are the age of about fifteen or 510 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: sixteen years UM, they are very much tight. The ground 511 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: cover is gonna be bear. It's gonna be a layer 512 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: of pine straw. There's really not much going on to it. 513 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: But you can thin it about fifteen or sixty years. 514 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: Once you thin that pine stand, you you open up 515 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the canopy, lower the basil area, which means more sunlight 516 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: is getting in. Um. That sunlight hits the dirt and 517 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: you will disturb the native seed bank. Um. And what 518 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: we've done the pind stands is actually thin it a 519 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: second or a third time. So the more you thinning, 520 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: the more open it gets. And when you incorporate prescribed fire, 521 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: which I know can be it was definitely a Dalton 522 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: cast for us to uh to do to do the 523 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: first couple of times. But prescribe fire. What that what 524 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: you're able to do for anyone that's not familiar with it. 525 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: It's with pine tree is very quickly you you end 526 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: up with a thick carpet of pine straw and there's 527 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: very little vegetation breaking through that carpet of pine straw. 528 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Do do do a prescribed fire? Burn it off and 529 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: if it's done pretty clean, you'll you'll have pure exposed 530 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: dirt with exposed cannopy. Sunlight gets in there and you'll 531 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: disturb that that native seed bank and you'll end up 532 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: with just incredible amount depending on when you burn uh 533 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: in the dormant season, you'll end up with a lot 534 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 1: of um, a lot of grasses uh Ford's brows um. 535 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: In our area it's American beauty berry, BlackBerry, h partridge 536 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: p uh for turkeys, golden rod, um poke weed. All 537 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: of that fords in in in in plants you're seeing 538 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: being covered. Now, that's that's that's really making a big 539 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: push for that holistic land management. UM clear cuts. I 540 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: thought and then a minute ago about about clear cutting sites, 541 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: and I know that can be daunting, but if you 542 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: if you try to, if your goal, your goal in 543 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: my opinion, should be to avoid the monoculture on your 544 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: pine farm. And so what we've done after we have 545 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: those two smallish clear cut sites was what I like 546 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: to call is to checkerboard the property to where your 547 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: clear cut maybe five and maybe fifty acre blocks anywhere 548 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: from five fifty acres and you you try to just 549 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: check our boards your property have have a diversity, so 550 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: you have a pine thicket and after a clear cut, 551 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: depending on the soil, those pine trees. You know, in 552 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: the South we have a very very long growing season. 553 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Our green up started in the February. It's been going 554 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: crazy throughout March, and it goes all the ways to 555 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: the first frost, which is about the first week in November. 556 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: So our pine trees go very very quick leap in 557 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: those clear cut replant sites will um thick en up 558 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: for for for outstanding deer bedding and deer thinke. It's 559 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: some falling cover and nesting cover for turkeys within about 560 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: one to three years, depending on the soil, and then 561 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: it'll last anywhere from six to ten years, again depending 562 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: on the soil. You know, the darker, low, lower lying soil, 563 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: they'll probably thinker it's gonna get And when deer bed 564 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: in there is absolutely killer hunting. And that's some of 565 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: the some of my favorite hunting to do, especially early 566 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: season in August and early September, when it's uh it's 567 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: a hundred degrees outside during the day, but the coolest 568 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: part of the day every day is at night, and 569 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: so if you know where the deer are feeding at night, 570 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,479 Speaker 1: in act field and maybe maybe a food plot system. UM. 571 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: A lot of times what I like to do is 572 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: to climb right on the edge of that young pine 573 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: thicket and I'm a chirp pine stand that's been fend, 574 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: it's been burned, so you know, you can get up 575 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: as high as you want. And with that vegetation that's 576 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: been disturbed in that native seed bank that's that you've burned. 577 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: Um Or if you had a thin and it grows up, 578 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: that vegetation can grow by the fall anywhere from two 579 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: to five ft tall, and deer will feel very comfortable 580 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: slipping through their browsing and making their way back to 581 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: their bedding site. UM. And so that you know, pine 582 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: farms might have a stigma as far as being like 583 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: a you know, a wildlife waste land, but if if 584 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: you blend these management practices, it can absolutely be a 585 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: wildlife haven in my opinion. So so with these clear 586 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: cuts that you're doing, the checkerboard clear cut. Am I 587 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: right that you are contracting these clear cuts out to 588 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: uh two loggers to do this commercially? Is that right? 589 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: That's correct? Yes? And then so you contract that out 590 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: they come, then they cleared out etcetera, etcetera. They make 591 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: they do everything you subscribed. Do you do the replanting 592 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: or do you have someone does somebody else come in 593 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: and replant them? And are you replanting just as wildlife 594 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: openings at that point or are you replanting in rows 595 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: for future harvest. So we would contract the actual timber 596 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: sale UH for the clear cut, and then we had 597 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: been doing most of the chemical spray. So after it's cut, um, 598 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, let's say we're let's say we cut some 599 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: time the spring or summer, we would go in UH 600 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: late summer, early fall and spray it and and and 601 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: just spray the ground just to kill off all the 602 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: all the volunteer UH sprouts hardwood, sweet gums and then 603 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 1: other volunteer pot other volunteer pountree just kill those off 604 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: and then we would replant contract the work uh to 605 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: be replanted pine trees the next dorm at growing season, 606 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: So January February of next year. Um, we I do 607 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: have plans for our next timber sale. I'm going to 608 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: clear cut a section and I'm gonna let it grow 609 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: up wild. Um, just volunteer, just just just let it 610 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: grow up wild. That was a suggestion that Joe Hamilton's 611 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: had to us a couple of years ago when he 612 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: first came to the farm, was you know, he was 613 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: like he was looking at some of the areas where 614 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: it was probably taken deer a little bit longer to 615 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: get to as far as you know, defeat um, and 616 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: they wouldn't get those areas until after dark. So he 617 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: just suggested clear cut it and then just let it 618 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: grow wild and so and so by doing that, you're 619 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: not growing pine trees. You know, you're not maximizing the 620 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: timber production. But we're gonna let it grow wild. And 621 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: then he said to not let us see its third birthday. 622 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: So after three years, burn it or mow it down 623 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: and just start over again. So keep sitting back, can 624 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: keep it in that early successional stage. Exactly, yeah, exactly. 625 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, so you've got the checkerboard of clear cuts 626 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: that you're doing. You've got some thinning throughout the pine stands. Uh. 627 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: Is there any other timber related projects that you guys 628 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,919 Speaker 1: have tried over the years. Have you dabbled in hinge 629 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: cutting or or anything girdling, anything else like that, and 630 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: how has any of that worked for you? We do 631 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: a lot of girdling and a lot of hacket squirts, 632 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: probably more hacket squarts. UM. Sweet gum trees or prevalent 633 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: down here. UM, and they you will fight sweet gums. 634 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we've been fighting sweet gums for a very 635 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: long time. They sprout very quickly, they grow very quickly, 636 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: and they offer really nothing for for wildlife. UM. I 637 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: have done some hinge cutting, not not much. UM. I 638 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: did a number of sections last summer and I really 639 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: didn't see I did not notice. I haven't noticed much 640 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: sign deer activity around them. UM. But at the same 641 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: time as that, we have a lot of, in my opinion, 642 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: better betting sites. So you know, I don't know if 643 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't think they were choosing to use them, And 644 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: maybe I wasn't. Maybe I didn't have the best locations. 645 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. UM. Other timber projects we do, something 646 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: we've been doing for a number of years now is 647 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: early successional disking light disking with a harrow UM. And 648 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: that's something you can do down here any time from 649 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: December till about March. And all you need is attract 650 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: or a harrow or maybe you can even if you 651 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: can hook up a harrow too. A four wheeler or 652 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: a TV, but you lightly disk the ground surface, just barely, 653 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: just enough, just enough to disturb the soil. And it's 654 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: very similar to a prescribed fire. You're disturbing that native 655 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 1: seed bank. And as long as those areas get sunlight, 656 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: you'll see those same native plants grow up that I 657 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: mentioned before. We've done a lot of those in the 658 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: timber where there's maybe a firebreak, Um, they get some sunlight, 659 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: maybe some roads, uh, fallow fields. I mean, I would 660 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: implore everyone listening just to do that. I mean you 661 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: can still do it now and go out and lightly 662 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: di some areas that maybe you wouldn't touch with anything else, 663 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: and just observe what happens to it, observe what grows up, 664 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: what pops and then may and then pay attention to 665 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: what's being eaten, what's being snapped off. Um. That's an 666 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: excellent way of creating a border around at fields or 667 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,919 Speaker 1: in the food plots. If you don't have the means 668 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: to plant, you're you're just adding diversity and uh and 669 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: switching things up, adding those edges. And I gotta believe 670 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: that's almost always a win win. Absolutely, Yes, I wanna 671 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: I want to go back to one more thing on 672 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: the timber side of things. Um, because I'm going to 673 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: make an assumption here for other people based on an 674 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: experience I've had, which is that getting some of this 675 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: larger scale timber work done it seems like, um, yeah, 676 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: it's it seems like there's a number of hoops to 677 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: go through to actually make it happen that many of 678 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,720 Speaker 1: us maybe don't know how to go through. Um. For example, 679 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: We've got a little family farm property up in northern Michigan, 680 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: forty acres, a lot of timber on it, and and 681 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: I know that we could benefit from getting some of 682 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: these trees out of there and opening getting some openings, etcetera. 683 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: We had a forester come out and take a look 684 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: at things, and and he said, you know, this can go, 685 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: this can go, this can go. It would be great 686 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: if you could get this out. But his concern was 687 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 1: that it was too small a scale to likely get 688 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: somebody out there willing to take the time to work 689 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: on a project of that size. And so in the 690 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: years since, I've kind of kind of taken a couple 691 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: of different stabs of trying to get people to come out. 692 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: But maybe I don't know what I'm doing, or maybe 693 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: I was talking to around people, but I bring all 694 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: that up to ask you, what has that process been 695 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: like for you in contracting out work? You know, what 696 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: does that all entail? If somebody's listening and they want 697 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: they want to see what opportunities they have to manage 698 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: their timber, who do you talk to? How do you 699 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: get that process started? What have you learned in the 700 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: years since about how to do that better? How to 701 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: work with a forrester or a logging or a logger 702 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: or anyone like that. You know, what does that look like? 703 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: What are some of the best practices. I would certainly 704 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: suggest anyone listening to connect with a forester. And you know, 705 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: unless you unless someone has a background and forced you work, 706 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,800 Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily I mean, it's kind of like 707 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: doing your taxes, you know. I mean, you could probably 708 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: figure out how to do your tag XS and file 709 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: if you wanted to. UM, there's ways you can figure 710 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: it out and do it. But some people would rather 711 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: just hire a c p A and have it done 712 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: the right way. Wise, because the c p A might 713 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: be able to save you some money, maybe some tax 714 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: res emptions. So you know, going with a professional, you 715 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: may there very well could be some benefits to it. Um, 716 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: So I would definitely say connect with a forster. And 717 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: on top of that, they're gonna have connections to the 718 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 1: timber buyers. They're gonna have connections to the local mills 719 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: where um you know where the timbers going. You know that, 720 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: So there are some benefits there. But you also definitely 721 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: want to want to connect with the with a forcer. 722 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: You know, if you're listening to podcasts, you obviously or 723 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: into hunting, So you want to find a forcer that 724 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: that can they can blend and has a wildlife background 725 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: of some sorts and it gets what your goals are, 726 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: so you don't necessarily need to you know, get a 727 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: force to do whatever he or she wants to do. 728 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: Connect with them, set your goals, tell them what you 729 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: want to do, and prioritize things. If it's maximizing true production, 730 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: then then you know that's what it needs to be. 731 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: If you're trying to blend true true production in wildlife habitat, 732 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: there's things you can do, um right now, it can 733 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: be challenging to get a timber contract uh sign and 734 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: then get the crew on site there. There there are 735 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: so much I was reading something of a day I 736 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: mean there are decades of of of of trees on 737 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: the stump, a decade's worth a supply of trees on 738 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: the stump that are ready to be cut. There's actually 739 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: an article in the Wall Street Journal about this, I 740 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: think maybe last year in about uh the amount of people, 741 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: most in the Southeast that we're planning pine trees back 742 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: in the eighties, in the early nineties as a nest egg, 743 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,479 Speaker 1: as a retirement, and a lot of those are coming 744 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: up for fist. And we had a lot of mills 745 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of timber mills and in our area 746 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: of the state and Georgia that closed down during the recession, 747 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: during the Great Recession, um, you know, two thousand nine 748 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: twelve area range. So when those mills closed, we're less 749 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: We're left with fewer places for our timber to go, 750 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: and so there's there's basically a lot of supply inventory 751 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 1: on the stump right now. So I say this, um 752 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: because if you have a smaller property or even like 753 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: even like our property, we're not looking to clear cut 754 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: large sections. We're looking to clear cut smaller sections, which 755 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: that might not be If you want to clear cut 756 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: fifty acres, that might not be attractive for a timber buyer. 757 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,319 Speaker 1: But if you can lump in maybe a thin maybe 758 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: maybe you do a third thinning on a pine stand 759 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: and then you tie in um a clear cut site 760 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: that might be attractive form or I recently I had 761 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: a conversation about the power of co ops, the power 762 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: of wildlife co ops UM. And you know, we all 763 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: know the value of that talking with your neighbor as 764 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 1: far as deer management, UM, what they're seeing and what 765 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: you're shooting. But another benefit of that is is is timberwork. 766 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 1: You're not gonna lump every everything together on one contract, 767 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: but you can absolutely pull your properties together and you know, 768 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: approach you know, have your forester or approach a timber 769 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: buyer with it and saying, you know, we've got properties A, B, 770 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 1: and C that we like to lump all altogether. And 771 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,719 Speaker 1: that's much much more trapptive for the timber crew to 772 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: be able to move into one general area and to 773 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: post up and to cut because it costs them so 774 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: much money, uh to move the machines around and the 775 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: equipment from property to property. Yeah, that's a great idea. Uh. 776 00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: So let's say we've we've tried thinning we've done clear hunting, 777 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: We've done a number of these different timber things. As 778 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: you've done it sounds like one of the next steps 779 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: you had was adding prescribed fire to the mix, burning 780 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: out that understory, underneath those thinned you know pine stands. Um. 781 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: What have you learned over the years about that? What's 782 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: worked best when it comes to fire? What are you 783 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:25,320 Speaker 1: really achieving with that too? With fire? I think what 784 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: what works best, what's work for us is to carve 785 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: the property up in the sections. We carve it up 786 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: each track at about three sections, and we burn one 787 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: section every year, and so each section is being burned 788 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: once every three years. Um. There's no plan, one management 789 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: plan that's gonna fit every property. You need to just 790 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: like everything else, after you burn up, observe what what happens, 791 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: observe what grows, what comes up, and what the deer 792 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: or actually eating. Um. We found the burning a section 793 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,839 Speaker 1: once every three years is is adequate to produce uh 794 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: just killer forge. And then also it will still leave 795 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: places thick think briar patches for betting, um. And so 796 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: even my burning and somebody think you know brambles and 797 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,320 Speaker 1: briars and those are excellent betting sites. And then and 798 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: then when you can buy that with the pine think 799 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:30,680 Speaker 1: it's we've got plenty of betting um. You know me personally, 800 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: if I had to make a decision, if for some 801 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: reason I had to make a decision on whether or 802 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: not I could plant the best food plot seed every 803 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: year or to burn every year, and I can only 804 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: choose one option, I would I would burn every year 805 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,720 Speaker 1: as opposed to planning food blots. I still like food blots. 806 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: But as far as the bank for the buck, there's 807 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: no question what you get um and the and the 808 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: diversity that you get from bresh sky fire. So a 809 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: lot of the bucks killed, I mean, the majority of 810 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: them is gonna be in the pine stands. The heaven 811 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,399 Speaker 1: burnt been burnt. And I'm climbing right on the edge 812 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: of that pot ticket and so they're either going there, 813 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: they're going back to bed, or they're coming out of 814 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 1: bed um and they hit that next block of a 815 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: thin pine stand that has like I said, two to 816 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: two to five feet tall vegetation and brows, and they're 817 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,359 Speaker 1: gonna mel through there and they're gonna mil their way 818 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: back at first light to go bed, or they're gonna 819 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,839 Speaker 1: step out and kind of mil through there and take 820 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: their time and feed and brows and make make sign 821 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: and whatnot until they get to that destination food plot. 822 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: That's an acre to why that they really don't want 823 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: to step out until dark because they know what's there. 824 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: Am I right? That you need to get the timing 825 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 1: right on when you would do a burn like that 826 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: to achieve that kind of natural food plot transition zone 827 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: in a stand of pines like that, Like when when 828 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 1: are you doing that burn? How are you doing that 829 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 1: burn to achieve that two to five ft of of 830 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of attractive growth while still in the pines. Um, 831 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: you're looking at anywhere in the dormant season, starting in 832 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: January January to to about March. As when prob most 833 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,280 Speaker 1: people do it. We usually run into a situation where 834 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 1: a lot of our land is very wet. Uh And 835 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,879 Speaker 1: in January, sometimes February it's just cold as wet. It's 836 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: a little too wet to burn. Um. But you know, 837 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Dr Marcus Lashley with the 838 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 1: University of Florida. He's he's like to go to prescribed 839 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: fire biologists. Um. You know, I had a long conversation 840 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: with him and you know, burning this time of year 841 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: January through March, you're gonna get out a lot of grasses. 842 00:49:54,040 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 1: And but that foliage, those that forward is gonna dear 843 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: like that young, tender, succulent uh sprouts, like when they 844 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: eat briars or when they eat the you know, Devil's 845 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: walking stick, which I don't know if you'll have that 846 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:18,000 Speaker 1: up uh in Michigan or not, but it's it's very thick. 847 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: I mean, they're not eating it when it's mature. They're 848 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: eating the youngs, the young sprouts, you know, the briars 849 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: and everything else poison ivy. And so if you burn, 850 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 1: let's say in February, a lot of that is gonna 851 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: be a little too. They're not gonna hit it in 852 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 1: the summer. So what Dr Lashley was saying was it 853 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,399 Speaker 1: you should really burn if you want that excellent uh 854 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,240 Speaker 1: forged throughout the summer, which for us is the stress period. 855 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: You know. I was you might be around snow right now. 856 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: I was talking to someone in New York snow and today. 857 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:53,719 Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's just crazy. I mean I was talking 858 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,879 Speaker 1: to a guy in New York state on Friday. He's 859 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 1: dealing with snow. I mean, we we had snows dick 860 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: January of eighteen and then we had snowstick. I think 861 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: so um, so like our stressful period is not the 862 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: winner now it certainly is. But our stressful period for 863 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 1: for for white tails is the summer. Yeah, it's nine 864 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,080 Speaker 1: needs a hundred degrees of course, a little bit cool 865 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: in the shade, but there's extreme heat. We could be 866 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 1: there could be a drought. Um, there's a high level 867 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,400 Speaker 1: of insects, bugs, and then you get with the heat, um, 868 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,440 Speaker 1: you get the stress and in the in the demands 869 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,719 Speaker 1: of the antler production, which there's much stress on the 870 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,759 Speaker 1: body for the bucks to grow those antlers every single year. 871 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,480 Speaker 1: And then you have the lactation, you know, the final 872 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: stages of the dough, the mother do's gestation period and 873 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,239 Speaker 1: then she's got to produce that quality milk. So um, 874 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,920 Speaker 1: he was gone, I'm bra and blame. But doctor Lasha 875 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: was saying, to to meet those summer demands, you really 876 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: ought to burn late spring and you know late spring 877 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: and then you have those that fresh, tender, succulent uh 878 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,360 Speaker 1: sprouts from all these plants growing back throughout the summer 879 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,240 Speaker 1: and late summer early fall. To to meet these demands, 880 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,560 Speaker 1: if you were to burn excuse me, late summer, early fall, 881 00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 1: you would get a lot more hardwoods, um, a lot 882 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,360 Speaker 1: more forbes to grow, if I had that right. We 883 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,920 Speaker 1: have never done a late summer, early or early fall burn. 884 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: I would like to just to be able to have 885 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 1: an experiment to see what happens. But for us, as 886 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,399 Speaker 1: you usually it's just timing. It's extremely hot and that's 887 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,279 Speaker 1: another animal in itself to burn that time of year. Um. 888 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,640 Speaker 1: And we're also usually gearing up for deer season at 889 00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: that point. But to change your questions, you do produce 890 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,320 Speaker 1: different results on burning in the dormant season or the 891 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,359 Speaker 1: growing season. You bring up an interesting, an interesting point, 892 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: which is you know how your main stress period that 893 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: you're trying to prepare for is the summer compared to 894 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,760 Speaker 1: maybe up here where it's late winter. Right. Um, I'm curious. 895 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 1: You must hear from a lot of people, whether you're 896 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: listening to podcasts or reading articles or books or anything 897 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 1: like that about land management, habitat imperment that's coming from 898 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: a Northerners perspective or the Midwest. Um, I gotta believe 899 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things like what you just mentioned simply 900 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,840 Speaker 1: are different than what you're dealing with down there in 901 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,799 Speaker 1: the southeast. Is there anything else that really stands out 902 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: to you? Is is something that you're dealing with or 903 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: that you have to do differently, that's that's dramatically counter 904 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: to the conventional wisdom coming out of the Midwest or 905 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: some of these other places. From a habitat management perspective, UM, yeah, 906 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,799 Speaker 1: a little bit. I can probably rattle off a couple 907 00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,399 Speaker 1: of dozen ways how we're different than like Iowa, for instance. UM, 908 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:06,520 Speaker 1: I would say, you know, once some some top level 909 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 1: points would be one I've already mentioned it, but our 910 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,480 Speaker 1: growing season as much much longer, um. And a lot 911 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,320 Speaker 1: of times in the Southeast, if you look at it, 912 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: if you look at it at a an aerial map, 913 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:26,720 Speaker 1: it's just gonna be one massive green block. Um. You're 914 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,839 Speaker 1: not necessarily gonna see distinctive land features. You're not going 915 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,840 Speaker 1: to say, oh, well, that's a funnel, that's a pitch point, 916 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 1: that's probably where they're betting, that's where they're feeding. It's 917 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,920 Speaker 1: very very You really need boots on the ground to 918 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,359 Speaker 1: be able to look to see because you'll see if 919 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: you'll see green pine trees, but you don't know, he 920 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,400 Speaker 1: might not know really what it looks like. Are they 921 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,760 Speaker 1: betting in there? Is it just is it just too open. 922 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,759 Speaker 1: So it can be a little challenging to figure out 923 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,280 Speaker 1: how the deer are using your property in the South, 924 00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: because they can bed everywhere. Betting is something that is 925 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,640 Speaker 1: significantly different when when when people talk about you know, 926 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,719 Speaker 1: finding but buck beds and hunting but buck beds, that's 927 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: not really, in my opinion, something in the Southeast unless 928 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: you've got a very unique property. Um, when I talk 929 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,399 Speaker 1: about deer bedding, I'm really referring to deer bedding into 930 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:26,319 Speaker 1: where it's you know those bucks, you know, and there 931 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: are some areas where bucks tend to bed, but it's 932 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,200 Speaker 1: usually like a general area, um, like a you know, 933 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,279 Speaker 1: a young thicket maybe five or fifty acres where they're 934 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,520 Speaker 1: betting somewhere in there. Or it could be in a swamp. 935 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,960 Speaker 1: We have, you know, some swamp systems where they bed. 936 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: But it can be because it's just so thick in 937 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 1: most places. Um, when you burn her and I mentioned before, 938 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: you'll you'll generate a lot of a lot of thickets 939 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,840 Speaker 1: the deer eat, but they also bed in them. So 940 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,319 Speaker 1: when you're laying out out your property and looking at 941 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,359 Speaker 1: the design as far as access, Where do you want 942 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: your stand? Where do you want to hunt? You know, 943 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: of course we have the permanent stands, but I traditionally 944 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 1: hunt mobally um And that was another turning point for 945 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 1: me when I started to do that more. But when 946 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm hunting myself or if I'm putting out a guest 947 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: or trying to figure out where they're gonna hunt, I 948 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,799 Speaker 1: look at more so of like where is their scent going? 949 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: How are they walking in? Like where are they parking, 950 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: how are they getting their spot, how they walking in, 951 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: and where their scent is blowing. Because with the Southeast 952 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,160 Speaker 1: being so dense and being a very high deer density, 953 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,080 Speaker 1: and and that's something else, another difference than like the Midwest, 954 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:50,120 Speaker 1: we typically have a higher deer density. So there's deer 955 00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,480 Speaker 1: everywhere and they're betting everywhere. So when you go to hunt, 956 00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna educate deer, You're gonna spook deer. Um, You're 957 00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,439 Speaker 1: gonna educate dear that you didn't even know was there. 958 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,800 Speaker 1: But that's another major factor as far as it thinking 959 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,520 Speaker 1: about your access. And it's not so much you know, 960 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 1: hunting pressure like pulling the trigger, but just simply going 961 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: into the woods and walk at I look at more. 962 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: I think more about like leaving it dark, when you're 963 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,680 Speaker 1: walking into eye before sunrise a dark or you're leaving 964 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,960 Speaker 1: a dark they're just You're all around you. You might 965 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,920 Speaker 1: not see them or hear them, but they're but they're 966 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 1: watching you and paying attention to you. UM. So it's 967 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,520 Speaker 1: it's just a lot to um, it's a lot to 968 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, try to put together. Do you does does 969 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: that factor into any of your land projects at all? 970 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,880 Speaker 1: Just that challenge of you know, dear in much of 971 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: the southeast, being able to live anywhere, being able to 972 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:52,960 Speaker 1: bet anywhere? Do you ever try to strategically plan where 973 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,959 Speaker 1: you want some of these cuts or where you don't 974 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,240 Speaker 1: want some of these cuts to allow for any kind 975 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: of safe place for you to access or et ceter 976 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: anything like that. Or is it just a loss? Cause 977 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,240 Speaker 1: I know it's not. I that's a that's an excellent 978 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: point you made, And I and I can give you 979 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,640 Speaker 1: a real example that we're doing right now. UM. We 980 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:18,200 Speaker 1: got a track that um the last owner was a 981 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,840 Speaker 1: timber company and before they sold it, they cut the 982 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 1: majority of the pine trees, most of them at least, 983 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:28,800 Speaker 1: and they cut it years before they sold it in. 984 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: It was just left to grow up wild those clear 985 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:35,440 Speaker 1: cut sections, so they were it was pretty thick sections 986 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,560 Speaker 1: growing up, I mean, just to make a volunteer pine 987 00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,080 Speaker 1: trees and hard woods and everything else. Um. But we 988 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: were left in the kind of a transition time where 989 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,360 Speaker 1: it was if you let an air grow up in 990 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: the southeast wild, you're gonna get a lot of hard woods. 991 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,160 Speaker 1: It is, it's gonna be mixed. But you either have 992 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:57,000 Speaker 1: to just let it, let it roll for a lot 993 00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,720 Speaker 1: longer periods for the for that for that for that 994 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 1: growth to become timber, to become merchant noble commercial timber 995 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: that someone would want to buy for pulp wood or 996 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,560 Speaker 1: salt timber um or poll saw, and that's gonna take 997 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 1: a lot longer. Or do you just bite the bullet 998 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,600 Speaker 1: and clear and clear cut it. But we were at 999 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,400 Speaker 1: a stage where it wasn't worth anything. I mean, we 1000 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,240 Speaker 1: were trying to get a fuel chipper in there too, 1001 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, mulch the material for field chips, which there 1002 00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 1: is a market for that, but there's just not many 1003 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,600 Speaker 1: fuel chip crews out there, and we end up just 1004 00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,920 Speaker 1: having to get a crew just to simply mulch it 1005 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:42,120 Speaker 1: down very rough, um, basically push it over, molst down 1006 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,040 Speaker 1: the stumps. I mean, these are trees that weren't even 1007 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: considered pulp would um. And then we've already gone in 1008 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,360 Speaker 1: those areas to to to to replant. We've already planted 1009 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,640 Speaker 1: pine trees and I we were sitting on that project 1010 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,480 Speaker 1: for many years, so we just didn't know how to 1011 00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: attack it. Um. But what I'm looking forward to doing 1012 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:08,760 Speaker 1: is that's very close, pretty much, very flush to a 1013 01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,000 Speaker 1: creek swamp um that I like to hunt. And if 1014 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:17,520 Speaker 1: anyone follows some of my content like on Instagram, I 1015 01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,440 Speaker 1: post a lot of UM, I've got some I've got 1016 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: some trail cameras down the swamp and I keep it 1017 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,960 Speaker 1: on video mode, which yeah, I will thank you. And 1018 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: so that's UM. There's a number of bucks that bed 1019 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,080 Speaker 1: down line swamp every single year. I mean, I'll get 1020 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,960 Speaker 1: a number of mature bucks down there. But it's been 1021 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: a very to say the least. I mean, you can 1022 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,880 Speaker 1: also look at my Instagram feed and tell us a 1023 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,120 Speaker 1: challenge to kill them. It's a challenge to harvest on 1024 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,840 Speaker 1: because they're in the swamp that has a it's fairly 1025 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: you know narrow. It it's just not you know, it's 1026 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,680 Speaker 1: it's not incredibly wide, but there's a fifteen to twenty 1027 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,360 Speaker 1: ft drop off on both sides that that you know, 1028 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,360 Speaker 1: dropped down to it. So the third moles are crazy, 1029 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,480 Speaker 1: uh to hunt in the swamp. And then you have 1030 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,360 Speaker 1: the fact that it is a flowing creek, so you 1031 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,400 Speaker 1: do have the wind currents through their long story short, 1032 01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,800 Speaker 1: it's extremely hard. It's been hard for me. Maybe not 1033 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:18,720 Speaker 1: hard for you to come. You can probably roll one 1034 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:23,360 Speaker 1: and kill them all. But but in what I'm describing 1035 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,720 Speaker 1: that area is like if you were to see a 1036 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 1: deer to harvest, it's gonna either be on a road 1037 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: or a firebreak that we've created, or a food plot. 1038 01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: Because most of the timber wasn't old enough to really 1039 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,280 Speaker 1: open up and thin and to be able to climb 1040 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,040 Speaker 1: over it and be able to burn over Some of 1041 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 1: it was and it wasn't. So by clear cutting that section, 1042 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,680 Speaker 1: we we have now opened it up and it's gonna 1043 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,600 Speaker 1: be I think, very very good for the next couple 1044 01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,880 Speaker 1: of years to hunt those hunt those edges, dear love 1045 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,520 Speaker 1: edges ums. We're gonna get a lot more sunlight, a 1046 01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 1: lot of native you know, veget asian growing, and then 1047 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,160 Speaker 1: in a couple of years it's going to be good 1048 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,880 Speaker 1: to hunt over a clear cut, especially the first couple 1049 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:12,120 Speaker 1: of years when it's not quite uh warm season bedding. 1050 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,960 Speaker 1: It's not quite tall enough and shade enough for deer 1051 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,080 Speaker 1: to bed in when it's hot, but it'll be good 1052 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,120 Speaker 1: cold season betting for them to go out in bed 1053 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:26,040 Speaker 1: during the cold weather and be in the sun. Mhm, man, 1054 01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,160 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of different factors that player aren't 1055 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:33,600 Speaker 1: there keep you keep you busy for a very long time. 1056 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,800 Speaker 1: Something I really like about this We've talked for an 1057 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:54,000 Speaker 1: hour and we have almost not touched on food plots 1058 01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,560 Speaker 1: one time, which is just kind of rare and the 1059 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,720 Speaker 1: land management conversations, so many people want to want to 1060 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,000 Speaker 1: jump to food plots like that's that's just like the 1061 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: sexy kind of topic in the land world. That's that's 1062 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,720 Speaker 1: seemingly the one that delivers the most results right out 1063 01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,919 Speaker 1: the gate. Some people assume it's the easiest, but many 1064 01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,360 Speaker 1: times it's not. Um. Nonetheless, food plots are a part 1065 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,280 Speaker 1: of what you guys do though too, righte Um, what 1066 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,560 Speaker 1: what does your food plot kind of practice look like 1067 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,040 Speaker 1: on this property? Now? I know you mentioned in the 1068 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 1: beginning you had some struggles with not having enough open space. 1069 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,439 Speaker 1: You mentioned how they're open up those logging pads. You're 1070 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,920 Speaker 1: expanding those little kind of hidy hole food plots. But 1071 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,479 Speaker 1: now you know, almost twenty years later, how do food 1072 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,240 Speaker 1: plots fit into this overarching strategy you guys have now 1073 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,000 Speaker 1: to to work in the land. What we've done, um, 1074 01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,240 Speaker 1: for a number of years now, we have maintained some 1075 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,560 Speaker 1: most smaller food plots might be a quarter or like 1076 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,640 Speaker 1: a half acre, and those are more of kill sites, um, 1077 01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,600 Speaker 1: you know where where it's not it's like kill sites. 1078 01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,800 Speaker 1: It might sound barbaric, but it the idea behind that term, 1079 01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,439 Speaker 1: in my opinion is or from my understanding I should say, 1080 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,960 Speaker 1: is that it's not enough acres to you're not really 1081 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,480 Speaker 1: you're not feeding the deer as far as nutrition. Um, 1082 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they're not really getting much out of the 1083 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,040 Speaker 1: nutrition side. You're just attracting them in to be able 1084 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 1: to you know, harvest them. We still maintain those, but 1085 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,440 Speaker 1: what we've increased the size of our main food plots. 1086 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,880 Speaker 1: There was there's a nice uh, it was a formal 1087 01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,440 Speaker 1: it was always had had always been used by the 1088 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,640 Speaker 1: farmer um kind of center of our property. UM, there 1089 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:43,000 Speaker 1: was a series of of of agg fields that they've 1090 01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,800 Speaker 1: been the farmer has been slowly uh turning those over 1091 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:50,800 Speaker 1: to us. It's it's um. It's a lot it's very 1092 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,200 Speaker 1: dark soil, which is great, but it stays wet when 1093 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,640 Speaker 1: he's going in and in the plant. This time mean 1094 01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,640 Speaker 1: they're gonna start planning pretty soon, so a lot of 1095 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,200 Speaker 1: time those fields are are a little too wet when 1096 01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,840 Speaker 1: they get a plant. UM and then some of the 1097 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,040 Speaker 1: other acts, some other food plots. We've expanded the size. 1098 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,880 Speaker 1: So by expanding the size, we have met the demand 1099 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,320 Speaker 1: of our dear density. Because if you plan, if you're 1100 01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 1: in a relatively high deer density, which might be over 1101 01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 1: if it's over I think like the somewhat the normal 1102 01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:30,000 Speaker 1: averages maybe per squad per square mile. If you're over 1103 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:35,760 Speaker 1: fifty five going towards a square mile, any plant food plots, 1104 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,440 Speaker 1: you you need some size to it because if not, 1105 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,440 Speaker 1: the deer are just gonna wipe it out very very 1106 01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,720 Speaker 1: very quickly, depending on what you plant. UM. So a 1107 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,080 Speaker 1: lot of our feet food plots we have expanded the size, 1108 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 1: and UM we're gonna try a mix this year. A 1109 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,960 Speaker 1: warm season mix to see if we have some better results. 1110 01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,880 Speaker 1: We've had some problems for a while of keeping the 1111 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,520 Speaker 1: deer out of soybean so that they can become browsed tolerant. 1112 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,840 Speaker 1: You know some of the forge beings that you can 1113 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,840 Speaker 1: buy now nowadays that grow very viny and grow very tall. 1114 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,160 Speaker 1: They need to get about knee higher or maybe about 1115 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,640 Speaker 1: thigh high to become somewhat browsed tolerant, which means the 1116 01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,440 Speaker 1: deer can sniff them off and they'll grow back. But 1117 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,600 Speaker 1: if they go in there and hammer them when they're sprouting, 1118 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, under a foot, they're gonna they won't kill 1119 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,240 Speaker 1: the plant probably, but it's gonna it's gonna be stunted, 1120 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,840 Speaker 1: and it's gonna grow wider, but it's not gonna really 1121 01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:35,200 Speaker 1: grow tall, and it's not gonna fill out. So we 1122 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,439 Speaker 1: use some various management practices to really keep the deer 1123 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,200 Speaker 1: at bay for a couple of weeks before those you know, 1124 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,360 Speaker 1: whether it's sun hemp or soybeans to grow and to 1125 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,000 Speaker 1: become browsed tolerant. But over the of course, maybe about 1126 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,280 Speaker 1: five years, the deer have really you know, just like 1127 01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,200 Speaker 1: everything else. Uh, you can educate deer and they realize 1128 01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,240 Speaker 1: as tactics of roping off the food plot or using 1129 01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:05,439 Speaker 1: my lower nite uh fertilizer um or using even human scent. 1130 01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we would take dryer sheets and put them 1131 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 1: around the around the rope of the fire, around the 1132 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,160 Speaker 1: rope on the food plots, just try to keep in 1133 01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,640 Speaker 1: bay and then to take it down once the food 1134 01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:21,000 Speaker 1: plot was established. Um So in what I see every 1135 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,520 Speaker 1: year is that if if if our farmers, if our 1136 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,480 Speaker 1: farmer on our property or the surrounding farmers, if they 1137 01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,280 Speaker 1: plant cotton, for instance, the deer are gonna hammer our 1138 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:36,280 Speaker 1: warm season food plots much more than if they plant peanuts, 1139 01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:41,960 Speaker 1: soybeans or corn, because those will be established first before 1140 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,720 Speaker 1: our food plots probably and they'll feed on those, and 1141 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,160 Speaker 1: that will help deter some of the pressure on our 1142 01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:54,320 Speaker 1: food plots. Um But food plots or in my opinion, 1143 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,240 Speaker 1: and absolutely it's a key if you can do it 1144 01:07:57,840 --> 01:07:59,840 Speaker 1: for diversity, it's all but diversity. I mean, I know 1145 01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:01,800 Speaker 1: I talked about a minute or a while ago about 1146 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,280 Speaker 1: if I have if I had to had to make 1147 01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 1: a choice between scuy fire or planning food plots, that 1148 01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:10,200 Speaker 1: a new scup fire. However, food plots give you that 1149 01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,440 Speaker 1: diversity and food plots allow me to be able to 1150 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,200 Speaker 1: have success in those burn sites because they're going to 1151 01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:21,800 Speaker 1: those food plots. And that's why, Like I'll sit on 1152 01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,600 Speaker 1: food plots early season, you know, when they're fresh and 1153 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:27,720 Speaker 1: deer r and used to hunters yet, or I'll sit 1154 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,519 Speaker 1: on a very very late season. But the way I 1155 01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,519 Speaker 1: hunt food plots during the during the mead the season 1156 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,959 Speaker 1: is really nowhere near m um. I'll use a destination 1157 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:41,160 Speaker 1: food plot or maybe that food plot system hub that 1158 01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,880 Speaker 1: we have in a property, which if anyone is looking 1159 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,160 Speaker 1: at if they can design their property or there may 1160 01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,960 Speaker 1: be looking at doing a clear cut site, maybe maybe 1161 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,400 Speaker 1: clear cutting on the somewhat centered when your property and 1162 01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:56,000 Speaker 1: then converting that site to to you know, food plots. 1163 01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,160 Speaker 1: Stump it converted the food plots. You have a hub 1164 01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,479 Speaker 1: on your proper, it's centered and sure you can hunt 1165 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:06,480 Speaker 1: on it, you know in the evenings. But I exploit 1166 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,640 Speaker 1: those food plots as destinations by you know, you gotta think, well, 1167 01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,439 Speaker 1: how many deer are using those food plots or agg 1168 01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:17,240 Speaker 1: fields at night. It's probably the majority deer in that 1169 01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,240 Speaker 1: air or within that food plot area throughout the night, 1170 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,599 Speaker 1: you know, Dear White tails are very social animals, whether 1171 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,720 Speaker 1: they're feeding or just making sign whatever they're doing the 1172 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,439 Speaker 1: very social. So a lot of my morning hunts will 1173 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,960 Speaker 1: be planned of, you know, being outside of a pine 1174 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,920 Speaker 1: thick or a thick and knowing that they bet in 1175 01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,400 Speaker 1: there and that they're going to that destination food plot. 1176 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,080 Speaker 1: I could be a couple of thousand yards or maybe 1177 01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:45,639 Speaker 1: a quarter mile away, but I'll cut them off going 1178 01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:51,519 Speaker 1: to or from that food plot. So that's how you 1179 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,559 Speaker 1: know I used the food plots a lot. Hunters really 1180 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,600 Speaker 1: just I don't want to sit on them, but I 1181 01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, catch them, hunt them going to and from. 1182 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,960 Speaker 1: You mentioned um sun help, and that's something I have 1183 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:07,000 Speaker 1: zero experience with, but I but I've seen it kind 1184 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,519 Speaker 1: of popping up more and more over recent years, especially 1185 01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,080 Speaker 1: down south. Can you can you film me in on 1186 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,320 Speaker 1: how you're using sun hemp um what your experience has 1187 01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,920 Speaker 1: been with that so far? Yes, So sunhamp is a 1188 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,280 Speaker 1: fairly new on the food plot deer management scene. I 1189 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:24,840 Speaker 1: think I first came on the scene as far as 1190 01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:29,040 Speaker 1: um cattle like like cows. It's originally from India. It's 1191 01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:34,280 Speaker 1: a lagoon um and you have to it's really it 1192 01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,720 Speaker 1: thrives in the south because you have to you you 1193 01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,719 Speaker 1: really need to be I think in a much lower 1194 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:47,960 Speaker 1: it's a it's it's a subtropical lagoon. Um. And it's 1195 01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:52,240 Speaker 1: I think it's I think that either either Dr Craig 1196 01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:56,000 Speaker 1: Harper or maybe the India did a study on it's. 1197 01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,519 Speaker 1: It's it's about thirty crew protein which is getting up there. 1198 01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:05,599 Speaker 1: What soy beans. Um. It can grow anywhere from four 1199 01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,200 Speaker 1: to eight feet tall and grow very thick. I mean 1200 01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:12,840 Speaker 1: grow about an inch a day. It grows very quickly. Uh. 1201 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,640 Speaker 1: It's excellent for cover crop if you want. That's how 1202 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot of farmers were originally using it as a 1203 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:24,280 Speaker 1: cover crop. Um. It's it. It's it doesn't drain on 1204 01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,120 Speaker 1: your soil like like corn. For for instance, we don't 1205 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:31,519 Speaker 1: plant much corn. Corn is very demanding on your soil. Uh. 1206 01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:36,439 Speaker 1: It's strips of nutrients. UM. Sun him. It's actually a 1207 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,800 Speaker 1: soul builder's loaded with nitrogen. You just you know, mow 1208 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,120 Speaker 1: it down after it's dead in the season, let it 1209 01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,960 Speaker 1: decompose back until the back to the soil. Uh. Dear 1210 01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:52,679 Speaker 1: love the young leaves on the plants. Um, it's tender 1211 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,240 Speaker 1: and they'll eat the and they'll eat the the main 1212 01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: stem too. At a certain point, after it gets a 1213 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,000 Speaker 1: little tall, maybe five six ft tall, the stems do 1214 01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,840 Speaker 1: become a little fibrous and they won't eat it. Um. 1215 01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,120 Speaker 1: But they'll eat the new leaves in the in the 1216 01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:10,400 Speaker 1: But the best parts about it is it is that 1217 01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:12,840 Speaker 1: you can cut it, you can bushog it, you can 1218 01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,400 Speaker 1: hit it with a bushog and it'll grow back. It'll 1219 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: sprout back, um as long as you know, as long 1220 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:22,960 Speaker 1: as you're still in my growing seasons. So for us, 1221 01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,920 Speaker 1: for us, it's all the way to the first of November. Um. 1222 01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:28,920 Speaker 1: So I like to plant a whole field of it 1223 01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:34,559 Speaker 1: and then just most shooting lanes or use it for um, 1224 01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:38,559 Speaker 1: you know, a border or not your fruit plot, especially 1225 01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,880 Speaker 1: if you have somewhere of a of a low a 1226 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,719 Speaker 1: low growing plant in your food plant, plant that around 1227 01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,719 Speaker 1: your border. It's very thick, very dense as lady with protein. 1228 01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,760 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I love having those those screening elements to 1229 01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,960 Speaker 1: just provide that extra safety around a feeding area like that. 1230 01:12:55,160 --> 01:13:00,760 Speaker 1: That's just so so useful, uh. Mark. I want to 1231 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,800 Speaker 1: want to pivot a little bit, um. I heard about 1232 01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:10,120 Speaker 1: timber fire food. I want to talk a little bit 1233 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:14,320 Speaker 1: about the future of this of this place, UM, because 1234 01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:15,920 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when it comes to 1235 01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:22,439 Speaker 1: land management and owning land or working land, I think, 1236 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,760 Speaker 1: I think the idea of legacy starts to creep in. 1237 01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:31,040 Speaker 1: I think for a lot of us, UM. And when 1238 01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:34,519 Speaker 1: you look at the future of this place, you've put 1239 01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,680 Speaker 1: so much time into so much energy, so many of 1240 01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:39,880 Speaker 1: your hopes and dreams. What do you what do you 1241 01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,880 Speaker 1: envision for the future. What do you hope for the future? UM? 1242 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:49,840 Speaker 1: What do you think that looks like? What I hope 1243 01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:52,320 Speaker 1: of the future is a weekend UM. And this is 1244 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:57,639 Speaker 1: something that we're working on now, is developing a forest 1245 01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:02,880 Speaker 1: forestry management plan to be able to maintain the farm 1246 01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:08,800 Speaker 1: for the next generation. UM. And you know, that's something 1247 01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,560 Speaker 1: that my father is talking about many times to me. 1248 01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,680 Speaker 1: He's a retired c p A and he sold a 1249 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,639 Speaker 1: lot in his career. He had a lot of clients 1250 01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,280 Speaker 1: that owned land. UM owned farms or september tracks like this, 1251 01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,560 Speaker 1: or hunting ground. And he always told me that a 1252 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,400 Speaker 1: lot of times, UH, land or real estate just does 1253 01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:37,519 Speaker 1: does not survive the grandkids. You know, it'll it'll transfer 1254 01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,439 Speaker 1: down to the kids and they'll get along. But when 1255 01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:43,400 Speaker 1: it gets down to the grandkids. A lot of times 1256 01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:47,720 Speaker 1: at that point you'll have some differences of opinions or 1257 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,479 Speaker 1: uses or everyone's not going to use in the property, 1258 01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:55,519 Speaker 1: and it's hard for the farm to stay, you know, 1259 01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,240 Speaker 1: without people wanting to sell it. So the plan, this 1260 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,040 Speaker 1: is something that we we we've been working on and 1261 01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,640 Speaker 1: I've been trying to take over more with forest. Your 1262 01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: work is to have a true uh force management plan. 1263 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:11,920 Speaker 1: And this this this cann ties right back into you know, 1264 01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,840 Speaker 1: diversifying your land and constantly be cutting in in you know, 1265 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,920 Speaker 1: so so you have avoid that monoculture. But you know, 1266 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:23,559 Speaker 1: if someone has marsonable timber on their property, they should 1267 01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,600 Speaker 1: really again connect with a forest or someone in the 1268 01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,759 Speaker 1: know to be able to come up with a standing 1269 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:34,200 Speaker 1: inventory value of your marshonable timber, whether it's pine trees 1270 01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:38,000 Speaker 1: or hardwoods. Well, you know, if there's a plan to 1271 01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:42,360 Speaker 1: sell it one day, you should have a rough estimate 1272 01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:46,920 Speaker 1: about the current value of your inventory um of your 1273 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:51,600 Speaker 1: timber crop and then project out, um what you what 1274 01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:53,679 Speaker 1: you should be getting for it when you got to sell, 1275 01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, five years down the yroad, ten years, and 1276 01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,479 Speaker 1: then sort of map out you know, five years from now, 1277 01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:00,040 Speaker 1: what are we gonna clear, god, were we can of 1278 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,800 Speaker 1: thing how much it would be selling at that point, 1279 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:04,800 Speaker 1: and then you start to kind of develop a plan 1280 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:10,240 Speaker 1: to where you've you're you're projecting out the future income 1281 01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,200 Speaker 1: to be able to cover the cost of opera, owning 1282 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,439 Speaker 1: and operating the farm. Um. And that's something we are 1283 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,400 Speaker 1: working on now to try to maintain that, keep the 1284 01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:25,439 Speaker 1: farm in the family, and then also do everything we 1285 01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,520 Speaker 1: can to be better land stewards, to be better conservationist 1286 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:32,280 Speaker 1: because I mean, every everything what we're talking about today, 1287 01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:36,000 Speaker 1: Mark is about you know, being a good land steward 1288 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,000 Speaker 1: and being a good conservation So I mean, you know, 1289 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:39,360 Speaker 1: a lot of what we do is to kill big 1290 01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,880 Speaker 1: jacky in bucks, but there's more to it than that. 1291 01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:45,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm when the projects I'm doing now is 1292 01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,599 Speaker 1: kind of you know, ongoing long you know, long game 1293 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,880 Speaker 1: projects will be the continue to work on Bob White Quail. 1294 01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:54,600 Speaker 1: We do have many several covees wild covers in the 1295 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:58,400 Speaker 1: property and then also the Eastern wild turkey. Um. I 1296 01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,240 Speaker 1: mean as far as legacy, I would love to be 1297 01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:04,519 Speaker 1: able to build the property up with a healthy turkey 1298 01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:08,200 Speaker 1: population because right now, I mean it's it's you know, 1299 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,920 Speaker 1: it's not headline news right now, but the Eastern Wild Turkey, 1300 01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:14,960 Speaker 1: the population has been dwindling for a well of a decade. 1301 01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,680 Speaker 1: And it's not something that's gonna get better over night. 1302 01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:21,240 Speaker 1: That's gonna the change is going to come from landowners, 1303 01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:24,920 Speaker 1: at least in the southeast. And that's you know, it's 1304 01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:27,679 Speaker 1: not that not the works not being done on public land. 1305 01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,640 Speaker 1: But when I say that is just because most of 1306 01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:35,640 Speaker 1: the Southeast is private land, um, and so um, you know, 1307 01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:39,559 Speaker 1: if that's that's something with the legacy, I would love 1308 01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,360 Speaker 1: how would love to change? Yeah? Now, speaking of speaking 1309 01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:48,080 Speaker 1: of private land legacy opportunities, another thing that I understand 1310 01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:51,080 Speaker 1: you guys have done is placed a significant portion of 1311 01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,080 Speaker 1: the property into a conservation easeman. Is that is that right? 1312 01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:55,720 Speaker 1: Did you guys do that? And can you can you 1313 01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,559 Speaker 1: describe to me you know for others maybe that aren't 1314 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,120 Speaker 1: familiar with what that means and why you guys decided 1315 01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:06,120 Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, So a conservation easement um is 1316 01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,840 Speaker 1: something that um, if it was interested, I would definitely 1317 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:14,000 Speaker 1: suggest you talk with your uh accountant, your CPA or 1318 01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:17,760 Speaker 1: maybe attorney about it. But it basically you're putting a 1319 01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,519 Speaker 1: section or property your whole property or section of it 1320 01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,120 Speaker 1: into a conservation easement to where no one you the 1321 01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,040 Speaker 1: current owner or any you know, owners down the road 1322 01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:32,040 Speaker 1: can can develop it. They can't carve off a home 1323 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:34,559 Speaker 1: site by the highway and sell it, or they can't 1324 01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,160 Speaker 1: put multiple houses. There are some different things that you 1325 01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,920 Speaker 1: can put on the property, you know, like a skinning 1326 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,519 Speaker 1: shed or a tractor shed, stuff like that, but it's 1327 01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:47,880 Speaker 1: protecting it from being developed. Um. And there there are 1328 01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,640 Speaker 1: tax benefits from it. You do get a very a 1329 01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,599 Speaker 1: very very nice tax bright from it. So a lot 1330 01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,400 Speaker 1: of people are doing that. We're actually looking at something 1331 01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,360 Speaker 1: that had relatively recently has been on my radar as 1332 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:07,680 Speaker 1: far as carbon credits. Um. You know, wetland credits have 1333 01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:12,360 Speaker 1: been you know, wetland metigrace, wetland mitigation credits have been 1334 01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,559 Speaker 1: something for a long time now. But carbon credits are 1335 01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,880 Speaker 1: at least somewhat need to me and we we'll be 1336 01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:23,160 Speaker 1: diving in that pretty soon. Um. And that's tied into 1337 01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,120 Speaker 1: not cutting trees. I'm not I can't really speak on that. 1338 01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:29,880 Speaker 1: That's something that we are going to look into. The 1339 01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,120 Speaker 1: So the idea with that credit me if I'm wrong, 1340 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,720 Speaker 1: but that would be basically getting financial incentives to keep 1341 01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:41,920 Speaker 1: trees on the ground. Uh, And people essentially incentivize you 1342 01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,280 Speaker 1: pay you to do that as as a way to 1343 01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,160 Speaker 1: offset carbon that they're using in some other way, and 1344 01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,719 Speaker 1: you're keeping carbon in there by not cutting the trees 1345 01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:53,840 Speaker 1: in certain places. That's that's the idea of carbon credits, right, Yeah, 1346 01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:57,720 Speaker 1: that's my that's my understanding, and I you know it 1347 01:19:57,880 --> 01:19:59,479 Speaker 1: makes sense. But at the same time, as you know, 1348 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,439 Speaker 1: we're there's certain stands where we're not gonna cut I mean, 1349 01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:04,160 Speaker 1: we know when we're not gonna cut and we're not 1350 01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:07,639 Speaker 1: gonna cut them before ten years. Let's say, are five years. 1351 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,800 Speaker 1: So but that's just something we got to dive into. 1352 01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:15,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's something to it's yeah, it's interesting. Now 1353 01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,320 Speaker 1: back to the conservation Easeman, why did you guys, I 1354 01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,639 Speaker 1: mean I can make ansumptions, but why did you guys 1355 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,840 Speaker 1: decide that was something you wanted to do, Because I 1356 01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,320 Speaker 1: know that's no small decision saying that, you know, okay, 1357 01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:30,360 Speaker 1: we are not going to develop this, We're not gonna 1358 01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, parcel it off. This is this is going 1359 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:37,559 Speaker 1: to be protected in perpetuity as a somewhat intact piece 1360 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,720 Speaker 1: of undeveloped um habitat from here on out? What was 1361 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 1: what was that decision making process like for you? In 1362 01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:49,400 Speaker 1: the family, it was mostly my father at the time, 1363 01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:52,240 Speaker 1: but he you know, he wanted to protect the farm. Uh, 1364 01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, he um, my father has spent a lot 1365 01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,360 Speaker 1: of time, especially after he retired, and he put a 1366 01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,640 Speaker 1: lot of heart and soul on the property. And so 1367 01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,240 Speaker 1: I think for him it was probably too secure it 1368 01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:09,400 Speaker 1: for the next generation and you know, to uh try 1369 01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,200 Speaker 1: to you know, secure our legacy on on the land 1370 01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,479 Speaker 1: so that we're not you know, it doesn't you know, 1371 01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:20,879 Speaker 1: end up becoming um, you know, something else being developed. 1372 01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:23,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just protecting everything that we're putting into 1373 01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,519 Speaker 1: it's for next property owner. I mean, it's that's something 1374 01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,960 Speaker 1: that can be a little different to think about. You know, 1375 01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,720 Speaker 1: when if you if you you know, I mean, I 1376 01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:34,519 Speaker 1: know what it's like when you lease land and you're 1377 01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,120 Speaker 1: putting management or you're doing some work into a lease 1378 01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:38,960 Speaker 1: land if you're a hunting claud because you don't know, 1379 01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if if you're least at land, 1380 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,679 Speaker 1: it's probably whether it's written or verbal, probably a twelve 1381 01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,240 Speaker 1: month deal, so you don't know what you're doing. I mean, 1382 01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:50,880 Speaker 1: you're passing up on bucks, letting, bucks, walk, shooting, does 1383 01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,320 Speaker 1: maybe doing some habitat like working on a low level. 1384 01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,800 Speaker 1: But you don't know if things are gonna change for 1385 01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,600 Speaker 1: the next calendar year. Um. But for you know, for 1386 01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,640 Speaker 1: but but for private land, it's just something to I 1387 01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:08,120 Speaker 1: think protect and just secure that everything we're doing will 1388 01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:13,160 Speaker 1: remain in the land for the next owner. Yeah. So 1389 01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,439 Speaker 1: you've got a couple of young kids yourself. What's what's 1390 01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:20,680 Speaker 1: all this? How how has that changed things for you 1391 01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,080 Speaker 1: if at all when you look at the work you're doing, 1392 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,320 Speaker 1: when you look at the future of this place. Uh, 1393 01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:30,519 Speaker 1: how his how his kids factored into how you approach 1394 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:32,840 Speaker 1: land management and any of this kind of stuff now, 1395 01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,280 Speaker 1: um a lot tremendously. Um, I mean I can. It's 1396 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:43,080 Speaker 1: it's funny, you know, thinking back about you know, years ago, 1397 01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:47,080 Speaker 1: listening to your podcast when y'all were expecting and before 1398 01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,559 Speaker 1: you had kids and afric kids, it's you know, very similar. 1399 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,559 Speaker 1: I mean, you know I had mentioned before but about 1400 01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,680 Speaker 1: some hunters picking and shoes and when they hunt. I mean, 1401 01:22:56,080 --> 01:23:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, even when I was married before kids, unless 1402 01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,559 Speaker 1: we had some kind of social engagement, I could hunt 1403 01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,640 Speaker 1: when I wanted to. So now it's it's you know, 1404 01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: picking and choosing the best times to to you know, 1405 01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:15,680 Speaker 1: between work and family. Um, to go up there a 1406 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,720 Speaker 1: year round to hunt or do habits at work. Um. 1407 01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:22,320 Speaker 1: The hunting aspect, you know. I have brought my kids 1408 01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:26,240 Speaker 1: a couple of times to hunt, um, but not with 1409 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, a firearm. I haven't shot a firearm around 1410 01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:31,559 Speaker 1: them there two and five, so not quite old enough 1411 01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:35,080 Speaker 1: I think to be around them yet pretty soon. Um. 1412 01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:37,240 Speaker 1: We've sat out the stand a couple of times, just 1413 01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:40,760 Speaker 1: without a gun or or a bow. Um. But this 1414 01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:42,479 Speaker 1: time of year is a good time to bring the kids. 1415 01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:45,400 Speaker 1: I I've been bringing both of them for a couple 1416 01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,120 Speaker 1: of years now to shed hunt, look for andlers. Um. 1417 01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,800 Speaker 1: And that's a that's that's the prime time when I 1418 01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,120 Speaker 1: do most of my scouting is looking for sheds before 1419 01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,680 Speaker 1: that green up because you can really see you can 1420 01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,920 Speaker 1: see much so much so much more of the land. 1421 01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,479 Speaker 1: How do you're using it? But yeah, some of the 1422 01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:04,560 Speaker 1: habitat work, I'm able to bring the kids up and 1423 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,720 Speaker 1: and and um and and and and do some of 1424 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:14,280 Speaker 1: the stuff with so it's um. Um, It's caused me 1425 01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:17,120 Speaker 1: to do a lot of work from home as far 1426 01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:23,040 Speaker 1: as planning, you know, planning out and maybe um um, 1427 01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, delegating some of the world to other people 1428 01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,760 Speaker 1: they can do it, whether it's my my father that's 1429 01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,240 Speaker 1: now retired or one of my brothers to be able 1430 01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,280 Speaker 1: to to be able to do it. But you know, 1431 01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:38,200 Speaker 1: to answer your question very quickly, would probably be it 1432 01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:43,000 Speaker 1: caused me to be more focused on time management because 1433 01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,320 Speaker 1: you know that's work in the back forty that you 1434 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,040 Speaker 1: spend half the time when you go to your farm 1435 01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:52,800 Speaker 1: fixing stuff, looking for stuff. You go there and you know, 1436 01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,800 Speaker 1: between the farmhouse and the tractor shed, you know, things 1437 01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,200 Speaker 1: getting moved around, things don't get put back where they were. 1438 01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,720 Speaker 1: You're looking for things. Things break, Um, I mean we 1439 01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,320 Speaker 1: we we went up in February to do a control 1440 01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:07,360 Speaker 1: burn and we had the weather conditions where we had 1441 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,720 Speaker 1: to burn permit. Everything aligned, and then our tractor broke 1442 01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:13,840 Speaker 1: down and we spent the better part of the day 1443 01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,920 Speaker 1: fixing it was some kind of wire that shorted underneath. 1444 01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,200 Speaker 1: But we couldn't burn, and that was a that was 1445 01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,840 Speaker 1: that was a heartbreaker because we because it was a 1446 01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,840 Speaker 1: bus for the day and that time a year, that 1447 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,120 Speaker 1: really couldn't with with the tratter down, we couldn't do 1448 01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:31,600 Speaker 1: much else. But if we were to burn without a 1449 01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:34,439 Speaker 1: tractor with a harrow in the back, if that fire 1450 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:39,240 Speaker 1: got loose or across the cut firebreak, there could be 1451 01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,559 Speaker 1: some problems. So it's just um, and and that goes 1452 01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,519 Speaker 1: back to what I said earlier, is just to take 1453 01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,840 Speaker 1: things slow. Um, we didn't know, really, we didn't know 1454 01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:50,720 Speaker 1: what we were doing at the beginning, so we had 1455 01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:52,559 Speaker 1: to take things slow. I mean, I think I told 1456 01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:54,160 Speaker 1: you we did take things slow, but we had to 1457 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,720 Speaker 1: because we didn't know what we were doing. You know, 1458 01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,840 Speaker 1: it was a big learning curve. And so um, there's 1459 01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:04,519 Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Would take it thing slow, you know, um breathe, 1460 01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,200 Speaker 1: Let let the property develop on us own, and then 1461 01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,439 Speaker 1: over that time period, you'll you'll learn how dear you 1462 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:16,840 Speaker 1: use the landscape, how they use it, what kind of 1463 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,120 Speaker 1: dear density have, and then you'll be able to manipulate 1464 01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:25,200 Speaker 1: the land based on what the wildlife needs. If you 1465 01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:30,200 Speaker 1: if you had a little piece of paper, like like 1466 01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:32,479 Speaker 1: the little piece of paper that you find inside of 1467 01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:35,880 Speaker 1: a fortune cookie, and if you could write something on 1468 01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:38,160 Speaker 1: that little piece of paper, stuff it into a fortune 1469 01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,960 Speaker 1: cookie and give it to yourself back in two thousand 1470 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,519 Speaker 1: and six when you and the family were gonna begin 1471 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:48,000 Speaker 1: this land management project. What message do you wish you 1472 01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:49,840 Speaker 1: could have wroteen on that little piece of paper to 1473 01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:59,799 Speaker 1: read back? Then, m hm, that's a that's a good question. 1474 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:04,120 Speaker 1: Are I would? It could be a longer piece of 1475 01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:11,640 Speaker 1: paper if you want, Um, I would probably One thing 1476 01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:14,080 Speaker 1: would just be don't sweat small stuff. This will be 1477 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:17,000 Speaker 1: a lot of failures, whether it's you're trying to work 1478 01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:22,160 Speaker 1: the land or hunting failures. And you know, wildlife is 1479 01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:27,360 Speaker 1: a renewable resource. And I'm not saying that lightly for 1480 01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:31,559 Speaker 1: white tails and turkey and quail everything else, but it's 1481 01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:36,599 Speaker 1: a renewable resource, and just take your time with it, um, 1482 01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,360 Speaker 1: and just don't sweat the small stuff because there's gonna 1483 01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:43,360 Speaker 1: be a lot of failures. But that's that's how you learn. Um, 1484 01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,680 Speaker 1: that's how you get to become a better hunter. And 1485 01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:52,000 Speaker 1: then too, um I would. I thought about this this 1486 01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,080 Speaker 1: second point many times. Is I look back on some 1487 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,040 Speaker 1: land features, like like pine thickets that we had some new, 1488 01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, new thick. It's that we're planting poun trees 1489 01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,240 Speaker 1: that were good, tight, you know thick, nasty betting sites 1490 01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:06,640 Speaker 1: that I did not exploit. I did not hunt. I 1491 01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,800 Speaker 1: was focused on other other spots and just not let 1492 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:16,479 Speaker 1: those I mean hunt the areas, hunt those areas and 1493 01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:21,400 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't, don't don't just let those grow up. 1494 01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,439 Speaker 1: And because you know some of those pine thinks you 1495 01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,720 Speaker 1: you have a window to hunt them. Um. And at 1496 01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,880 Speaker 1: a certain point they do, you're stop betting at them. Um. 1497 01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:33,160 Speaker 1: But um, I would if I could do things over again, 1498 01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,320 Speaker 1: I would probably say to get off and hunt mobile 1499 01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:36,920 Speaker 1: a lot. I should have done that a lot of 1500 01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:42,679 Speaker 1: a lot quicker, a lot quicker. That was a turning 1501 01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:44,560 Speaker 1: point for me as a hunter. I think probably I 1502 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:51,040 Speaker 1: can look back on pinpoint that when that changed. Yeah, 1503 01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:55,680 Speaker 1: I've certainly had similar experiences too. Well, Mark uh, I 1504 01:28:55,800 --> 01:28:58,800 Speaker 1: really enjoyed this. It's it's it's always it's always a 1505 01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,960 Speaker 1: kick for me just to get to hear about these 1506 01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,840 Speaker 1: different places in different ways. People are doing this and 1507 01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,479 Speaker 1: having fun and learning about the land and figuring out 1508 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:11,599 Speaker 1: how to hunt and improve their spots. And your story 1509 01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:13,880 Speaker 1: down there in South Carolina is a perfect example that. 1510 01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,240 Speaker 1: So where where can people go if they want to 1511 01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:19,640 Speaker 1: learn more about what you're doing? I know you've got 1512 01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,080 Speaker 1: a website and some different things. Is there anything that 1513 01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:23,960 Speaker 1: you point folks to if they want to follow along 1514 01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:27,559 Speaker 1: more with what you're up to. Yes, Um, they can 1515 01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:30,160 Speaker 1: follow me. They can find me on Instagram. It's at 1516 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:36,880 Speaker 1: Mark Haslam um my Instagram has really it's it's been. 1517 01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,080 Speaker 1: It's pretty much just been. I've been showcasing what I've 1518 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:42,360 Speaker 1: been doing the farm and hunting stuff habits at work 1519 01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:47,000 Speaker 1: for a number of years now, and uh, because I 1520 01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:52,280 Speaker 1: was and then you know, I about a year ago, 1521 01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,400 Speaker 1: the beginning of last year twenty one, I've I've been 1522 01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:56,920 Speaker 1: sitting on the idea for a while, but I finally 1523 01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:02,720 Speaker 1: launched a website, Southeast whitetail dot com. Um, just a 1524 01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,400 Speaker 1: just to show showcase what I'm doing at the farm 1525 01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,320 Speaker 1: and and and I think, right I wanted to highlight 1526 01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:11,439 Speaker 1: some of the stuff in the Southeast because I think 1527 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,080 Speaker 1: just so much the hunting content out there is driven 1528 01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:16,280 Speaker 1: a lot towards the Midwest, and some of that stuff, 1529 01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, we could definitely use down here, but a 1530 01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:20,360 Speaker 1: lot of it we can, and a lot of it 1531 01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:25,040 Speaker 1: is just it. It's you know, it's We've got a 1532 01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,960 Speaker 1: different different terrain and different deer herds and so I 1533 01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,400 Speaker 1: wanted to really showcase, you know what what I'm doing 1534 01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:35,960 Speaker 1: in UM so that's where people can find me. Awesome. Well, 1535 01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:39,080 Speaker 1: I would definitely recommend people check that out. And Mark, 1536 01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:43,000 Speaker 1: thank you for your time. It's fun. Well, thanks for 1537 01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:45,439 Speaker 1: having me on Mark. I appreciate it. Let's talking with me. 1538 01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:49,639 Speaker 1: Let's do it again soon. Sounds great. Thank you Okay, 1539 01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,760 Speaker 1: and that is it. Thanks AELF for tuning in. I 1540 01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,880 Speaker 1: appreciate it. It's been a fun chat. I'm I've been 1541 01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,280 Speaker 1: just taking a little bit of time peering back behind 1542 01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:03,479 Speaker 1: the house watching turkeys strutting around. So it's spring. It's 1543 01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:05,280 Speaker 1: a great time a year to be out there working 1544 01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:10,000 Speaker 1: the land, working food plots, hanging stands, or like I mentioned, 1545 01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:12,040 Speaker 1: turkey hunting. So I hope you're out there and having 1546 01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:14,880 Speaker 1: a good time. Thanks for tuning in, and until next time, 1547 01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:16,679 Speaker 1: stay wired.