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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: One Never Told You production If I Heart Radio. And

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Speaker 1: welcome to the second part of the two parter accidental

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Speaker 1: two parter that we did with bridget Todd, great friend

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Speaker 1: of the show about Hugh Hefner and legacy of Hugh Hefner.

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Speaker 1: We just got going and there was a lot to say,

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Speaker 1: so much to say. Yeah, so we had to split

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Speaker 1: it up. Go listen to part one if you haven't already, it.

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Speaker 2: May be confusing. If you don't, it might be.

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Speaker 1: It might be, but then come back.

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Speaker 2: And just kind of like the last one. If you did,

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Speaker 2: listen to the part one of this accidental Part two

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Speaker 2: that I Am So Infamous for of the Legacy of

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Speaker 2: Hugh Heffner. Content warning for all the things we are

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Speaker 2: going to talk about, examples of sexual assault, rape, drug abuse, soliciting, trafficking, death, murder,

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Speaker 2: like all the things. It is all up in here.

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Speaker 2: It is as gruesome as you think. It is pretty horrifying.

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Speaker 2: Not to discourage you, but to let you know what's

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Speaker 2: coming up. Of course, we're going to have a pretty

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Speaker 2: detailed conversation about some of the implications this does leave behind.

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Speaker 1: So in the last episode, we were deep into conversation

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Speaker 1: about Hugh Hefner and Playboy and the exploitation and trafficking

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Speaker 1: and abuse that was happening there, and how controlling so

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Speaker 1: much of it was, and how the pr machine really

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Speaker 1: did a great job at hiding it or repackaging it

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Speaker 1: making it look really nice. So we are going to

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Speaker 1: jump in right where we lie off and dig into

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Speaker 1: that a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Some of the most disturbing stuff that I recall from

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Speaker 3: these memoirs is what it was like to be sexual

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Speaker 3: with you, and what it was like as one of

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Speaker 3: the one of his girlfriends in the house. The ways

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Speaker 3: in which you had to mold yourself to this very

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Speaker 3: specific version of a woman's sexuality that is being dictated

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Speaker 3: by Hub and Hugh alone is wild. Probably the most

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Speaker 3: shocking thing that haunts me to this day. It haunts

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Speaker 3: me is a revelation that during these orgies, rather than

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Speaker 3: using lubricant like a water based lube that you bite

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Speaker 3: from the store, a ky jelly, Hugh Hefner insisted on

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Speaker 3: using baby oil. If you have a vagina, you know

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Speaker 3: that scented baby oil in your vagina is the most

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Speaker 3: horrific thing I can imagine these women would be getting

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Speaker 3: regular vational infections while having to have sex with you,

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Speaker 3: Hefner Knightley. They pleaded with the woman who was sort

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Speaker 3: of like in charge of doing his bidding, like.

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Speaker 4: Please let us just use regular lube.

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Speaker 3: We're all getting vational infections and we're all having sex constantly,

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Speaker 3: And they would sometimes try to switch it out, like

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Speaker 3: they would put lube in the baby oil bottle.

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Speaker 4: But somehow Hugh always knew.

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Speaker 3: And That's what I'm saying, Like, you are so committed

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Speaker 3: to this very specific visualization of what this sexual fantasy

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Speaker 3: is like that you don't even care that it is

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Speaker 3: preventing you from being able to like actually have sex

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Speaker 3: because the.

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Speaker 4: Women will always have vational infections.

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Speaker 3: Crystalline here her memoir talks about how it got so

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Speaker 3: bad that she would have anal sex with him when

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Speaker 3: it was her night to have sex with him, because

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Speaker 3: it was like, well, that was like a million times

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Speaker 3: better than just getting a bad vational infection from this

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Speaker 3: baby oil in my vagina.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, like that just it just sounds like again,

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Speaker 2: this is just control, Like this has nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with actual pleasure or any of that for him, Like

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Speaker 2: this doesn't really change much from like a good lubricut

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Speaker 2: versus baby oil. That this is just about oh I

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Speaker 2: want this because I said this, that they can change

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Speaker 2: this this and again that's a form of control and

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Speaker 2: abuse that happens so often within relationships, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: like even for interviews, and I think these things were

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Speaker 2: coming out a lot before these documentaries and memoirs that

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Speaker 2: people just randomly, Yo, we got a thousand dollars a week.

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Speaker 2: We had to go ask for it, and we knew

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Speaker 2: we asked for it. You know, it meant that he's

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Speaker 2: gonna give us a chart and rating, and that we

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Speaker 2: couldn't leave. We left, we had to have people with us, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but he gave us everything. He gave me a car,

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Speaker 2: he gave me a dog, and we had a salon

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Speaker 2: for a little while until we abused it, I guess.

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Speaker 2: But people were normally this is like, yeah, okay, that's

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Speaker 2: what you agreed with, right mention, and not anybody saying yo,

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Speaker 2: that's not cult like yo, that's that's like a literal ring,

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Speaker 2: Like what is happening? This is the most controlling tactic

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Speaker 2: that we if we saw that in our friends in relationship,

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Speaker 2: that we'd be like, you're going to get murdered, you

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Speaker 2: need to leave.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things I keep getting hung up

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Speaker 1: on about this is that we as a society have

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Speaker 1: co signed on this is okay by being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well he did these other things where it's you know,

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Speaker 1: women so long have been valued on their body, their desirability,

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Here's where you can make money.

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Speaker 1: But let's like paint it real nice. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I think about a lot is you

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Speaker 1: started to use feminism. You have never started to use

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Speaker 1: feminism to be like, see, it's all good for the

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Speaker 1: women here because of feminism. This was happening at the

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Speaker 1: time the sexual Revolution, the second way feminism of the seventies,

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Speaker 1: and there was this backlash against it. But then it's

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Speaker 1: almost horrifyingly amazing how well the pr of Playboy did

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Speaker 1: at turning it into well, we've seen the sexual revolution.

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Speaker 1: You ladies just want to have sex right.

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Speaker 4: Here you go.

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Speaker 1: Now, now we get like a feminist stamp of approval,

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Speaker 1: which is wild.

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Speaker 4: You ladies want reoccurring vational infections, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they really wanted to tell to pretend like

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Speaker 2: as long as you're not in the kitchen and raising children.

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Speaker 2: This is feminists, which is kind of that big conversation

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Speaker 2: with what was kind of wrong with feminism at that

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Speaker 2: point in time and being like, this is not what

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Speaker 2: this is not all feminism. This is not what we

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Speaker 2: were saying when we said equality not to be like

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Speaker 2: just because you give us at you pay us to

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Speaker 2: not have children and to not have for some of

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Speaker 2: us and not being in the house and have a

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Speaker 2: job that is atypical and I'm quoting jobs or doing

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Speaker 2: things where I can show something proudly where my you know,

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Speaker 2: other people would be shamed of. This is not necessarily

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about in feminism. There was an article

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Speaker 2: with New Statesmen talking about his co opting of feminism

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Speaker 2: for his empire, and it says if you ask Hugh Hefner,

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Speaker 2: he'll tell you he was a feminist before there was

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Speaker 2: such a thing as feminism. And again, it's just one

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Speaker 2: of those narcissistic things where like I did this before you, Hey, women,

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Speaker 2: I saved you. You're welcome.

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Speaker 3: And also is the saying he was doing this before

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Speaker 3: women like Mary wolste Greg Like, what.

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Speaker 4: Does that even mean?

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Speaker 3: That's right, just not true. There's no way, that's true.

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Speaker 3: You didn't start the feminist movement, mat.

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Speaker 4: My guy, like you just didn't.

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Speaker 2: It's not your thing. This is not you and continue.

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Speaker 2: This week, Cosmopolitan republished He's love letter to himself, arguing

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Speaker 2: that feminism was his own worst enemy. So we're guessing

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Speaker 2: this is around the time they're like, yo, this is

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Speaker 2: not feminism, sh being the true source of women's liberation. Everybody,

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Speaker 2: he writes, if they got their head on straight, wants

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Speaker 2: to be a sexual object. This piece was originally published

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, but have been making the

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Speaker 2: same argument since the nineteen sixties, and in fact, the

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Speaker 2: magazine did promote their own version of women's lib back then,

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Speaker 2: supporting reproductive rights and of course, sexual liberation. The Playboy

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Speaker 2: Foundation even donated generously to abortion rights organizations and the

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Speaker 2: American Civil Liberties Union ACLU to fund daycare centers. Longtime

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Speaker 2: senior editor NTT. Lehrman said the magazine quote came out

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Speaker 2: on these important feminist issues before feminists had figured out

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Speaker 2: what their issues were.

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Speaker 5: Wow, just to know, I do have to say we

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Speaker 5: talked about Playboy in our book, because yes, they in

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Speaker 5: part helped with the putting together of rape kits, which

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Speaker 5: is something that we must live with.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to do about I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to do about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but in that same article they do kind of

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Speaker 2: call it out and say claiming to support women's rights

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Speaker 2: while simultaneously insisting on our objectification was unconvincing for the

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Speaker 2: second wave. But the times they are changing, and the

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Speaker 2: kind of feminism presented to today's liberal doesn't seem so

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Speaker 2: far off from the magazine's ethos. In an era that

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Speaker 2: ascribes empowerment to everything from breast implants to new selfies

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Speaker 2: to pole dancing classes, and when the hardest conversation of

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen was Beyonce's feminism, it only makes sense that

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Speaker 2: the magazine, when it doubled down on their efforts to

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Speaker 2: capitalize on the movement. Playboy's existence relies on the notion

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Speaker 2: of women as sexually liberated proponents of free love. As such,

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Speaker 2: the introduction of the birth control pill in America was

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Speaker 2: deeply connected to not only women's liberation, but to the

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Speaker 2: sexual revolution. Women can now have sex like men, no

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Speaker 2: streams attached. Playboy was crafting a version of women's lib

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Speaker 2: that was, in the end still male centered. Women were

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Speaker 2: permitted to be sexual, but within the confines of a

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Speaker 2: one dimensional view of sexuality that had to in the

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Speaker 2: end satisfy men. So there's so many points to this,

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Speaker 2: because any you and I have talked about this repeatedly,

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Speaker 2: how to the point that Bumble fumbled their thing. We

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Speaker 2: just recently had an episode about how, say, chassidy is

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Speaker 2: not going to be the thing, y'all, you're not going

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Speaker 2: to stick to that come on type of thing to

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Speaker 2: come after women who have decided to stop having sex,

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Speaker 2: or about celibacy or whatever what, or women who are

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Speaker 2: just a sexual that had come into a criticism of

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Speaker 2: that that that being a sexual or vowing celibacy is

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Speaker 2: also like almost anti feminists in some certain realms, like

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Speaker 2: now that we have our sexual liberation to go backwards

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Speaker 2: quote unquote and not having sex, you know that that

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Speaker 2: extreme version which is like no, but we're talking about

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Speaker 2: choice here, which is so often gets left off the

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Speaker 2: table in conversation and in this level of like, yes,

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Speaker 2: they played so hard upon it that they shame you

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Speaker 2: for not being okay with it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's the damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Speaker 1: If you're a woman, if you have sex, you're a slut.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to believe you if you say you've

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Speaker 1: come forward about Hugh Hefner. If you don't have sex,

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Speaker 1: then you're approved, and Hugh Heffner wouldn't want you run away.

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Speaker 1: And they say that like it's a threat. But unfortunate,

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Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, we are taught like sexual desirability is

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Speaker 1: a thing and you should want it. Not you should want,

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Speaker 1: but you feel like you should. And I've spoken about

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Speaker 1: that my experience with that too. But it is so

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Speaker 1: bizarre to me that when we're having this conversation, it's

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Speaker 1: just like we're trying to make ourselves feel better about

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Speaker 1: rape culture. That's just what it feels like to me,

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Speaker 1: is that we're trying to make ourselves feel better about

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Speaker 1: the fact that women are still mostly judged on their

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Speaker 1: body and their use and their desirability towards men. And

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Speaker 1: Hugh Hefner is a good guy, so you should go

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Speaker 1: with it. And here's all these examples examples as to

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Speaker 1: why we can feel okay about it.

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Speaker 4: That's just.

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Speaker 6: That's the vibe, right, I think the lean in well

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Speaker 6: that again, I have to say this again about corporations anyway,

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Speaker 6: in general, the way they co op things for their

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Speaker 6: own for capitalism, like in general, whether it's the queer

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Speaker 6: movement LGBTQ month or whether it's like Black History Month,

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Speaker 6: whether it's Women's Month, they do things for name only

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Speaker 6: in order to gain more power. And this sexual liberation

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Speaker 6: was a reach for power.

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Speaker 3: And it's no coincidence that they are the ones financially benefiting.

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Speaker 4: So it's like convincing us to be.

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Speaker 3: Super cool with our own exploitation and being a cog

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Speaker 3: in this machine of rape culture. They cash a check

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Speaker 3: from that, right, and so it's like it's it's just

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Speaker 3: it's just exploitation the whole way.

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Speaker 4: Down, right.

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Speaker 2: I did find the interesting conversation about Gloria Stein I'm

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Speaker 2: going undercover as a bunny, and she talked about her

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Speaker 2: experience and how immediately from jump she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is not good. Yeah, the costumes are bad. I'm

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Speaker 2: goned at the first thing I was told. I was like,

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Speaker 2: the first thing someone yelled at me as I walked

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Speaker 2: into the club was bunny, Bunny, come here by men,

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Speaker 2: of course. And then one of the things that they touted,

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Speaker 2: and they didn't really talk much about this part in

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Speaker 2: the documentary. I don't know if you had any in

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Speaker 2: their memoirs that yes, they actually got pretty good pay.

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Speaker 2: So I think they were paid the equivalent like two

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Speaker 2: to three hundred dollars a week, which would equal out

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Speaker 2: to be about seventeen hundred to twenty six hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: I guess today in its value. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that's true or not, but the amount that they had

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Speaker 2: to pay back to the club for the upkeep actually

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Speaker 2: took home a lot less. They had to pay for

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Speaker 2: their own shoes, they had to pay for any mending

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Speaker 2: of their costume. They had to pay for like any appearance,

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Speaker 2: upkeep the nylons, their stocking or pante hose, whatever, tights. Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, He's been called so many things, their makeup,

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Speaker 2: all of the different things they're like standards or beauty.

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Speaker 2: So whether that's getting facials or nails done, or hair

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Speaker 2: done or whatever, they had to upkeep because if they

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Speaker 2: did not upkeep those things they were done, they would

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Speaker 2: be demoted and moved around. They did talk about the

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Speaker 2: fact that the costumes, if you did not fit into

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Speaker 2: their costumes, you had emotions and you were suspended until

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Speaker 2: you could. So at one point a woman came in.

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Speaker 2: She talked about the fact that they're like, you look cute,

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Speaker 2: but you need to lose ten pounds by the next

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Speaker 2: Monday to get into the costum or you're not going

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 7: It's like, I mean, if it was like on Monday,

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Speaker 7: next Monday, I have to assume a seven days.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, it was a four time obviously, like no

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Speaker 2: matter what. The longest she had was like ten days, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it was absurd, and like they made sure that

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Speaker 2: that was the point. They were talking about how their

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Speaker 2: shoes were so tight or small that they would take

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Speaker 2: their feet, blit bloody feet, put it into their toilet

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Speaker 2: and flush the commode repeatedly to get cold water and

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Speaker 2: get the swelling down so that they could spit back

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Speaker 2: into their shoes and go back out. They had the

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Speaker 2: bunny bend. Did you read about this at all? Which

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Speaker 2: where because the corset it's so tight, but you had

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Speaker 2: to One of them showed an example where they're facing

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Speaker 2: away from the table. They're slightly cocked to the side,

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Speaker 2: but they have to dip lean back a little bit

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Speaker 2: with the drink in their hand all the way down

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Speaker 2: and then put it on the table as if you

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Speaker 2: like a contortionist, but never facing the table. It was

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Speaker 2: the most absurd thing that I ever heard in my life.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that looks so like and she was

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Speaker 2: an older woman showing and I was like, nah, I

286
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Speaker 2: can't do that today.

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Speaker 4: That's bizarre.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's something that really strikes me about the memoirs

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Speaker 3: of some of the more recent women from Girls next Door,

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Speaker 3: How just how strange some of that stuff is, Like

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Speaker 3: being in this orbit, some of the expectations are just

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Speaker 3: bizarre and are cane and specific and just yeah, just

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Speaker 3: like a really weird, difficult thing to have to maintain

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Speaker 3: and have your financial livelihood kind of depend on.

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Speaker 2: Right, But not only that, this level of like so

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Speaker 2: they touted again that level of like they protect the women.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we saw in the article how they

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Speaker 2: would kick people out if they did these things, if

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Speaker 2: they asked for these things, if they touched the bunnies.

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Speaker 2: Apparently that was the like they talked about that rule,

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Speaker 2: do not touch the bunnies. If you touch the bunnies,

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Speaker 2: you're kicked out. You cannot have and the only way

303
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Speaker 2: you can get into the club was like having a

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Speaker 2: key or a key ring specifically, and like that's how

305
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Speaker 2: you get in and you get the drinks and all

306
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Speaker 2: these great things. Is a big show. You're someone someone

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Speaker 2: if you got these things. But if you touch the bunnies,

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Speaker 2: you're out. But two, there was a twofold where yeah,

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Speaker 2: that happened in the club. The minute they were outside

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Speaker 2: of that club, it was done. They had no security,

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Speaker 2: they had no one follow out. Even if the women

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Speaker 2: reported that they were being stalked by someone or that

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Speaker 2: if someone was coming after them, they did not care.

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Speaker 2: They were like, eh, literally someone who was a bunny

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Speaker 2: mother who essentially like was the boss or manager, but

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Speaker 2: you know, you have to give a cute name. Bunny mother,

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Speaker 2: of course, was how I was told by several women

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Speaker 2: that they were being follo, They're being stalked. They were

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Speaker 2: afraid for their lives, They're afraid that they're going to

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Speaker 2: get kidnap, they're afraid they're going to be assaulted. And

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Speaker 2: when she would tell the security team, they're like, Eh,

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Speaker 2: it's not our problem. Outside of the club. They're big girls.

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Speaker 2: They can handle themselves. Literally being told that, she's like what.

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Speaker 2: So they would try to write these incidents about what

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Speaker 2: was happening. Some of the big some of the people

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Speaker 2: in documentary. But on top of that, there was another

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Speaker 2: level of being in the club that was a card,

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Speaker 2: so think like gold card or like one of those

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Speaker 2: metal cards, in which they were given unlimited access and

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Speaker 2: they could do whatever they wanted, and they did. Now

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Speaker 2: they would never co worce the women necessarily, but they

332
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Speaker 2: were encouraged to flirt a lot and take it as

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Speaker 2: you will type of conversations. And when incidents would happen,

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Speaker 2: instead of helping, giving therapy, protecting, they women were fired

335
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Speaker 2: and they had what they called the cleanup crew to

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Speaker 2: come and fix the situation. So whether it's to make

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Speaker 2: sure to hush people up or to put it under

338
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Speaker 2: the radar, because they did not need negative things about

339
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Speaker 2: their clubs or any of the people. They talked about.

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Speaker 2: One of the hosts of the Soul Chain taking a woman,

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Speaker 2: kidnapping her and logging her up in his room, and

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Speaker 2: the only way she was able to escape was she

343
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Speaker 2: had called them and she was able to get out

344
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Speaker 2: and say, hurt another person. But he was still allowed

345
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Speaker 2: at the club. He was never revoked because he was

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Speaker 2: so high in the level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's just such a level of disposable, right,

348
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Speaker 1: how we see women as disposable. Once you age out,

349
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Speaker 1: once you can't do this move, once you're not desirable anymore.

350
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Speaker 1: You're just not important to us other than the money

351
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Speaker 1: that you can make us.

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Speaker 2: Right, if you've been used up and you're going to

353
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Speaker 2: cause us trouble. And this is again like I want

354
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Speaker 2: to vomit just saying those words, but those are the

355
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: terms that go through. And if you're going to cause

356
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Speaker 2: us money, make us, give us a loss of money,

357
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Speaker 2: you're nothing to us. Goodbye.

358
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Speaker 3: When Kendra on Girls next Door asked to be paid

359
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Speaker 3: to be on the show, they were like, we're not

360
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 3: going to pay you. You're all replaceable and disposable, and

361
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 3: that like that idea of replaceability that there's you know,

362
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 3: a bunch of women who would kill to be here

363
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 3: that'll take your spot like that if you can plain

364
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Speaker 3: or cause us trouble. How much that was used to

365
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Speaker 3: keep the whole thing going, Like, it's so interesting hearing Sam,

366
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Speaker 3: hearing you describe what it was like in these clubs

367
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 3: in the sixties and seventies and how that same thing

368
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 3: was being used in the nineties and two thousands to

369
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 3: continue to silence and keep these women doing what they

370
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Speaker 3: wanted right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were some other stories that I was just like,

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Speaker 2: my god, like some of the things where like people

373
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Speaker 2: were actually arrested, but again the women were just fired

374
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 2: and everybody was told to be quiet, and no one

375
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 2: knew about it. Even the people who worked in the

376
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 2: same clubs and like would hear like legends of things

377
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 2: and be like what I didn't know this, what is happening?

378
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 2: And then the other to this is to me? And

379
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 2: I find this interesting because I'm sure you caught up

380
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: on this in the memoirs. If whatever reason Hugh Hefner

381
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: lost control of a person for the next round of relationships,

382
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: he upped the ante, like he would do ten times more.

383
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: Because I remember the Shannon Twins talking about the fact

384
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Speaker 2: that she was like, okay, when we came in, Holly

385
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: would talk about her her experiences, and then when the

386
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 2: Shannon Twins come in would be like, oh, yeah, we

387
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: couldn't do that anymore. They wouldn't let us have that

388
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: because it caused for Holly to be able to leave

389
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 2: or Kendrick to be able to leave, and so Hugh

390
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: Hefner would twist that up so that would be harder

391
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: and harder for people to leave.

392
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the way like yes, and the way that

393
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 3: surveillance was used, like there's only one phone and it's

394
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 3: in the hall, so you can't have any kind of

395
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: private conversations. It's like, again, these are not things that

396
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: are happening in a living situation where people are there

397
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: completely willingly.

398
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, they're just not right, Like, nobody.

399
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 3: Surveils my phone calls other than the US government, I

400
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 3: bet certainly not the person that I meant to be

401
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 3: in our relationship with.

402
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 4: That is not normal. And we were like all watching

403
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 4: that on TV.

404
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 3: Like oh, this is great, like right, yeah, totally wholesome,

405
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 3: normal stuff.

406
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: It was honestly baffling to go through in these conversations

407
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 2: because obviously I'm bouncing back and forth to his empire

408
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: what his empire was doing, which he still like had

409
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: heavy hand in. So when it came to like the

410
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: Playboy clubs, yes, he had underlings who did what he

411
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: wanted without him necessarily coming through and being in the front,

412
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: you know, the face of it. But then we have

413
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: what's happening with a mansion, with things like girls next

414
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: door and the girlfriends and the wives, and the situations

415
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: where he is catering or he is creating this chaos

416
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: and is the face of this chaos like that, that's

417
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: like obviously separate, but both, but the entity of what

418
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: the level of powers because it's almost more ominous to

419
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: me to hear these stories about the Playboy clubs and

420
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 2: things that would happen and they literally like organized crime

421
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: level of covering things up in order to protect this man.

422
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: And that was a conversation that was said almost even

423
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: those who were advocating for Hugh Hefner specifically was like,

424
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: what he didn't know, but they were protecting him like

425
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: this level.

426
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 4: But that's my thing.

427
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 3: It's like, I understand that what's happening in the clubs

428
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 3: Hugh Hefner, there's an understanding that he is not personally

429
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: dictating those policies and all of that happening. But it's

430
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: it's obviously related when you look at how similar it

431
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 3: is to how the spheres that he did have a

432
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 3: lot of control over his own domestic sphere, and people

433
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 3: who would say like, oh, well, he didn't know that

434
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 3: was happening, then what is your explanation for his own

435
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: home life that he maintained and then hired people to

436
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: make sure that it was that it was run to

437
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 3: his liking, and I I just can't see those two

438
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 3: things as unrelated, Like, oh, there happened to have been coercive, exploitative,

439
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: possibly illegal behavior happening here, but.

440
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 4: He had nothing to do with that.

441
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: However, here's some similar behavior happening decades later in his

442
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: domestic sphere that was very similar. But obviously there's a correlate,

443
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: like a relationship between those twoth spheres.

444
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: You would think it'd be easily like, oh, yeah, Dutt,

445
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: connect the dots, but the people who want to advocate

446
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: for him so fiercely refuse to look at those connections.

447
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no,

448
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: that's not him. They're just trying to pin in that

449
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: way is to be a bad guy.

450
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 4: Oh I get this so deeply.

451
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 3: I honestly like this might sound weird, but I feel

452
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: for those people who really feel they need to uphold

453
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: and defend Hugh Hefner. You know, I'm having the same

454
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 3: conversation right now with a lot of people that I

455
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 3: love and respect around Diddy. I think there is something

456
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: in our culture where if you have to actually look

457
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: at what this person did and represented and the and

458
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: what you you were complicit in or thought was cool

459
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: or whatever. The work is so hard and the revelation

460
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: is so deep that it is that it almost forces you.

461
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: To need jerk be like he would never do that,

462
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: and if.

463
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: You did do it, they wanted or something like that,

464
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 3: Like I you know, I think back to this conversation

465
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: that one of the Cosby survivors said a black woman

466
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 3: and she was one of the first black women Cosby

467
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 3: survivors to come out on the record and say what

468
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: he did to her. And she was having a conversation

469
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 3: with a black man, and you know, this man came

470
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 3: to her and was like, sister, is it true?

471
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 4: And she was like, I'm so sorry, but.

472
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: Yes, it is like how cruelly we were lied to,

473
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 3: how cruelly we were taken advantage of.

474
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 4: And I get it.

475
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: I get that peeling back the layers of lies that

476
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: you believed that you that you felt empowered by is

477
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 3: difficult work. And I can understand why in the face

478
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 3: of that work you would be like, no, I can't

479
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 3: face that.

480
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 4: That's too hard.

481
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: I must defend this institution because it would mean looking

482
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: at all the times that like people that you would

483
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 3: admired or respected played into this all the times that

484
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 3: you yourself played into it. Like, I really do have empathy

485
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: for how hard it is to look at these situations

486
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 3: and see them for what they are, right, But like,

487
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: that's the trip of living in our societies. You have

488
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: to be willing to come to the table and see

489
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: things clearly and have those tough conversations to do that work.

490
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, because I did not realize,

491
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: and I don't know why I did not make this

492
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: connection that several of the cases and the allegations toward

493
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 2: Bill Cosby originated from the table mansion that I was like,

494
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: oh oh oh, because we had one survivor actually speak

495
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: about it and went into really sad detail about what

496
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: was what happened specifically with him in this level. There's

497
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: this other part of this conversation, which is again a

498
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: whole other episode in that yes, the likelihood of several

499
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: of the people that they talked about and accused out

500
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: loud named within the playboad mansion were black men. Again,

501
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 2: we had the soul train I cannot remember his name

502
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: host at that point.

503
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 4: Don Cornelius.

504
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: He was the main Okay, yeah, he was the main

505
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: I think host and then the football player, and then

506
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: Bill Cosby, and I think the other one was finally

507
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: rowand Polanski and yeah right, which is like he's still

508
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: technically isn't he still out in about he ran away?

509
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 3: Right?

510
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's in.

511
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: Europe High Award and like, literally, don't even get me

512
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: started about that mother, because literally, celebrities to this day

513
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 3: and twenty twenty four will go out of their way

514
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: to be like, well, you know his family was killed

515
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: in the Holocaust and did he really do anything wrong?

516
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: Like like I am so sorry. People that you like

517
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: in respect are on the record like woop be Goldberg

518
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: was like, well it wasn't a rape rape Like to

519
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: this day, celebrities go out of their way to defend him,

520
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: and it makes me want to scream. Yeah, in twenty

521
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: twenty four, keep it to yourself, stop talking, keep it

522
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: to yourself.

523
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: Stop talking. Why are you why you well keep talking?

524
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: I can to avoid each other. Listen now, I haven't

525
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: know never to talk to you or look at you

526
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: ever again.

527
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 4: And you're not having my kids around your end. Yeah,

528
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 4: I know every time.

529
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: I see you, I know, oh I know who you are.

530
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: I see who you are. But yeah, no, like this

531
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: is that bigger conversation is like they are more likely

532
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: to separate. And again, because I didn't quite grasp it,

533
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it's kind of a prime example. If

534
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: Hugh Hefner was kept protected instead of being held liable

535
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: for what was happening at the parties that he held, for

536
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: the girls that he is supposed to be responsible for,

537
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: and I say responsible for, there are his employees, people

538
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: he's supposed to be protecting, like all of these things,

539
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: and he came out with nothing, Like I really did

540
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: not figure this stuff out with that case of like,

541
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: oh my god, all these things are awful. This is

542
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: all these things. Even with the mention of it, I

543
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: was like, he he came out unscathed.

544
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I want to say something out Cosby because.

545
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: And I don't. I don't want to derail the conversation.

546
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: But Cosby was a known entity to the Playboy Club

547
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: and Playboy parties, right. This was when he was making

548
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 3: family friendly comedy and like becoming sort of America's dad.

549
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: Like when I think about the way that Girls next.

550
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: Door was sort of sold A's wholesome and kind of

551
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: family friendly, squeaky clean, I keep thinking about Cosby, who

552
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 3: his public image was squeaky clean, wholesome America's dad blah

553
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 3: blah blah while he was going to these Playboy parties.

554
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 3: Like how much it benefits men and allows for men

555
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: to build up these these ideas about them in public

556
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: that don't square with who they actually are in reality,

557
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: and it kind of allows them to test sort of

558
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: do this in plain sight, right, like, Oh, I'm a

559
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: wholesome guy, but I'm going to the Playboy Club every

560
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: night and like sexually assaulting people regularly.

561
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: You know what it's like. And I guess this whole

562
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 4: conversation just goes back to the way that like pr

563
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 4: and media and.

564
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: Doing good things, sometimes all is goes back to creating

565
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: this dynamic where men get to do whatever they want

566
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: and people.

567
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 4: Don't ask about it.

568
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: Like there's like the dynamic where it's like, well, don't

569
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: tarnish his legacy. It's like, well, I'm not the one

570
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: who told him show about the Playboy Club. That was him,

571
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: So why can't that be part of his legacy?

572
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 2: Like that is his legacy? Like as right point, if

573
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: he did it, if he's known for it, if he

574
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: has been doing things that have like literally destroyed other lives,

575
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: that's his legacy. That is a part of his legacy,

576
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: and it should be it should be worn as proudly

577
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: as he did it, Like that's yeah, Like that's that's

578
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: the end of the conversation. And but that's kind of

579
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: interesting because it does lead to that other the love

580
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: of like Playboy being so wholesome, and this conversation about

581
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: the drugs issue like within the Playboy mansion and who

582
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: was providing and who was getting, and the conversation of

583
00:30:52,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: kueludes yes to that, the fact that Holly again mid

584
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: two thousands were like, yeah, he had them in his pocket.

585
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: They were called he called them thiye openers. We thought,

586
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: like he didn't joke about it, but she said it

587
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: so nonchalantly that I'm wondering if she caught herself saying that,

588
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: you know, like it really was like he called them

589
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: miss thieh openers. And maybe it's just her monotone voice

590
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: in general, like she doesn't like except for when she's

591
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 2: like annoyed, but like it just sounded like yeah, of course,

592
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: why wouldn't the type of conversation that just blew my mind.

593
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: But on top of that this is one of the

594
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: drugs that was used throughout a many perpetrator, like many

595
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: of the predators who would use different pills like at

596
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: that point was the drug of choice for what it

597
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: seemed to like be like Hollywood, whether it was Weinstein,

598
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: whether it's like all of them like wholla, but it

599
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: seemed to be a conversation and it seemed like commonplace

600
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 2: that they just it just was there. It blows my mind.

601
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: And in this conversation once again that no everyone is

602
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: equating having to use this as rape, like, no one

603
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: except for those who are violently raped.

604
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 3: And I would also add, so I mean, I don't

605
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: even know how to put this. If you're Hugh Hefner

606
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: and you're in your eighties and you are having sex

607
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: with women who are nineteen, and in order to maintain

608
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: your ability to do that, you are using Quelus and

609
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: that's how that whole thing is happening. How do you

610
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: also get to enjoy a public reputation as a you know,

611
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: real fox in the bedroom, like oh, like a real

612
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: like every like every well, this is such a fantasy,

613
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 3: like right it just I guess That's what I'm saying,

614
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: is like how they've been able to build up this

615
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: world where it's like yeah, I'm drugging. All the women

616
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: have to be drugged to have sex with me, and

617
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying a public image as like the world's best lover.

618
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: Like those two things can't be possible except for in

619
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 3: this fantasy land that you built up around yourself.

620
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. My image of him has never been

621
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: that he was a good lover. It was just it

622
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: was accessible.

623
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 4: Oh my god, in some of these memoirs like he.

624
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, how good of like if you're

625
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: getting a vaginal infection, Nope, that's not sexy, But yeah,

626
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: he is having sex with these like young hot women.

627
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 4: The women.

628
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: Fun fact, when they would have these orgies, they were

629
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: a lack because you might be thinking like, well, maybe

630
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: the women are having sex with each other and like

631
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: they're getting something out of it if like he is

632
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: not performing good. They were only able to have simulated

633
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: lesbian sex with each other.

634
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 4: They could not, like they could.

635
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: Not actually kiss each other or do things with each other.

636
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 4: The women they had to just sort of pretend.

637
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: So even even that is like yeah, yeah, you really

638
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: wanted to make sure these women got nothing out of

639
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: this encounter that it was as humiliating and unpleasant physically as.

640
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: Possible as possible.

641
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the young twins when they were talking

642
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: Shannon's they were talking about their first experience with Hefner.

643
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: They the way they imply was like it was was demeaning,

644
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: Like he the first thing he did was obviously whatever

645
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: was his fantasy for what Like, it's just a whole

646
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: level of like, oh, you just really like decided this

647
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: is what needs.

648
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: To be yes, And I guess it goes back to

649
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: what you were saying about, like, oh, well, don't women

650
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: want to be sex objects? And like, you know, isn't

651
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: this liberal liberation where like when the sex is demeaning

652
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: and not physically satisfying. It's not like he was like, oh,

653
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 3: let's make this about your pleasure, like you like, yes,

654
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: you can be a sex object, So like what do

655
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: you want?

656
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 4: Like, what do you like? What are you what are

657
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 4: your likes? What are you not?

658
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 3: Like, Let's let's make sure this is about you. That's

659
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: not what's going on again. I think there is a

660
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: world where somebody somewhere could create an empire that that

661
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 3: truth maybe truly is about a woman's sexual liberation and pleasure. However,

662
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: one where what the woman wants is not.

663
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 4: Does not even come up. Just can't be.

664
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: It right, right, and and there's no mention of that.

665
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't even think he talks about it within his magazines,

666
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 2: does he?

667
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 4: No?

668
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: No, no, because he has to give the girl next door

669
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: and girl next door can have sex, but they can't

670
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: have sexual desire.

671
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 3: You see, you're at once made into a sex object,

672
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: but like in a way unsexed because you're not.

673
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: You were not talking about your desires or what you want.

674
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: Right, And you have to fit our ideas so we

675
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: can doman you and we can be the one to

676
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: not just the flower, but essentially take that from you.

677
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: It's only liberation if you're being demeaned, ladies, remember that, right.

678
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And there's so much more that we

679
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: need to be talking about because honestly, like this it

680
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: went into a deeper conversation about women, apologizing to women

681
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: and realizing where they filled each other. In these documentaries again,

682
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: Sonia Theodore came into points like I am so sorry

683
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 2: to the women that I brought into this. I did

684
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: not know. I was scared and I ruined your life,

685
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: like she came in like a full level of conversation

686
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: and like to the point that she felt like she

687
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: had Stockholm syndrome because she had gone through these things

688
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: thinking it was okay, came back year after year after

689
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: the year after breaking up with him, having these great relationships,

690
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: pretending like telling everyone how great he was, and then

691
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: realizing like, wait, this was trauma, which is such a

692
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: natural story for everyone. There was one point of the

693
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: interview I was telling you about the splits of the

694
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: documentary where the journalist is talking to a friend of

695
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: hers who was a boxer who posed for Playboy, and

696
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: they were she was talking about she could never say

697
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 2: the words rape, She could never say any of these things,

698
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: but she said I had to give in because they

699
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 2: saw me as sexual. I was not for Playboy event.

700
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: This was for her actual career stuff. But describing an

701
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: incident where after the fact she got a lot of

702
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: posing for Playboy and being told that she's she's this now,

703
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: and she was like, you know, I didn't want to

704
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: have sech I told them I didn't want to. This

705
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: person was married, but you know, I was a part

706
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: of this industry. That's what they expected. I was a

707
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: part of their team. So I just went hand gave in,

708
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: And the reporter was like, oh, my god, Oh my god.

709
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: And they were actual friends and she's like, you never

710
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: told me this, you never told me this. She's like,

711
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: I wouldn't quite say it's rape. And the friends stopped.

712
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: It's like, no, that's rape. You did not want to

713
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: do this, And like the woman sat there was like

714
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: the athletes sat there and was like okay, like kind

715
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: of in that level. But that's what you see playing

716
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: out as these different women are talking about these incidents

717
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: of like not understanding consent in the first place, not

718
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: understanding that what was happening was the level of manipulation,

719
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: and then not understanding that they were a part of

720
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: the trafficking ring when they were bringing other women in

721
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: to be a part of this cycle. So this is

722
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: such a big conversation within that. Again, I told about

723
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: the one woman who was just going after other women saying,

724
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: you're just being a gold digger. You knew what you

725
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: were coming into, which again that phrase was said so

726
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: many times, Like my heart is racing thinking about it now,

727
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: because the phrase is like you knew what they were

728
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: we were coming into. They knew what they were going into,

729
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: they knew what this was about. Like as if to

730
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: validate what was happening, and it's like, but that that

731
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: wasn't even like honestly tore into. That wasn't even like

732
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: opened up to like that level of conversation in this

733
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: documentary because they really didn't have time and they didn't

734
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: have the space and the emotional space to really dig

735
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: through all of that because kind of like reliving the

736
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: stories and saying it out loud was like, oh, these

737
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 2: are the things that happened. But again, like and there

738
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: were a couple of accusations of Hugh Hefner forcibly raping women,

739
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: which hasn't been said previously, And one one victim spoke

740
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: up about what she had gone through and I think

741
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: this one hit too close to me like my own

742
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: experiences that I almost like threw up, like what she

743
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 2: was talking about through her own childhood, uh, and then

744
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 2: getting to this point with this man who she told

745
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: she was told that this was safe, that she was safe,

746
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: and then being ripped apart, and then everybody ignoring it

747
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 2: and to the point like she went to a higher

748
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: up who was a woman and was like, oh my god,

749
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 2: this happened. She's like, oh, is that all? You're fine?

750
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: He's not gonna he's not gonna do anything against you.

751
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: You're fine, Like he's not gonna as it would be retaliatory,

752
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: or he's not gonna being to you for this. It's fine.

753
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: And that was what she had to walk away with.

754
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: But like those levels like yeah, he has been personally

755
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 2: accused of raping women. That needs to be said out loud. Uh,

756
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 2: though everybody else wants to dance around this whole like, oh,

757
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: you know she had to be talked into a little bit,

758
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: or oh we were being paid or whoa, we knew

759
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: what we were walking into. Do what I like it?

760
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: Did I want to know? Did I have to smoke

761
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: a lot of weed? Sure, but we knew, Like that

762
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: level that's still coorsion, that is still considered a type

763
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: of rape, that is still goods to your will, but

764
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: like true levels of like that higher level like yeah,

765
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 2: this dude got away with it. This dude got away

766
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: with it. And in these conversations again like the wider

767
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 2: range he may have got like there's allegations of him

768
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: being a part of cover ups of deaths, allegations of

769
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: cover ups of drug trafficking, like literally, FBI, Like there's

770
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: just level though, and you almost tell me like there's

771
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: so much of like the anti like anti hero conversations,

772
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to drug use and like almost

773
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: like organized crime level that you root for the bad.

774
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: Guys, you know what I mean.

775
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: And that's still that part of you of like huh,

776
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 2: like people would take that and credit him as being cool,

777
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, even though allegations are so gross.

778
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that moving drugs, you might

779
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: look at that and be like, oh, he really knew

780
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: how to do what it took to keep the party going.

781
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 4: And it's like, well, also.

782
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: Moving women as cargo, as sociable cargo, that part is

783
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 3: le right, like.

784
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 2: Using them as mules. Yes, yes, it's not quite cool.

785
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 2: This is not the thing. This is not the thing.

786
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: But like there's the depths of what goes into the story,

787
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: like the depths of like things that are hidden. So

788
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: like we also talked about the exploitation that he had taken,

789
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: the tapes they had taken, the extra photos and like

790
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: all of not only the tapes of them taking pictures

791
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: being taken, pictures of which had been released to the

792
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: shock of many of the women, especially like the older

793
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: women who had told that this would never exist because

794
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: that medium hadn't existed at that point or didn't think

795
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: they needed that at that point, as now being released

796
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 2: because Playboy sold it without any of the women consenting

797
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: nor getting money for it. Once again, and this was

798
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: not too long ago, but in the actual videos made

799
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 2: from the security cameras, like from what I gathered, Mickey

800
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: Garcia and Sonya Theodore actually came together and started trying

801
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: to petition to find out what was happening or what

802
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: happened with those videos, because many of them were so

803
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: petrified that these would be released and they were told

804
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: that it is somewhere in the sea. Now I'm wondering,

805
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: like if people heard that and we're gonna try to

806
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: find it.

807
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 4: Oh, I think so.

808
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: I mean something that you said that six with me

809
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: is like he got away with it, And I feel

810
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 3: like where we are now in twenty twenty four, I'm happy,

811
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 3: Like I would have said, yes, I remember when he died,

812
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: we saw all the conversations about free speech and racial

813
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 3: equity and women's lib and sexual freedom and all of that.

814
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: But I and so it does kind of feel like

815
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: broadly he got away with it. But I am happy

816
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: that we are in a place now where women's voices

817
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 3: are being elevated in this conversation and that we are

818
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 3: actually creating a legacy where maybe he won't get away

819
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 3: with it. Maybe we we'll continue to speak up and

820
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: continue to listen to people who speak up and not

821
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: just be like, oh, well, they knew what they were

822
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: getting into their being paid, and actually have a full

823
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: accounting of his legacy. And even for people who like

824
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: Hugh Hefner, which obviously I don't think. I don't think

825
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 3: anybody will be surprised that we probably don't fit into

826
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: that category. You should be able to contend with his

827
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 3: full legacy. And this is all part of that legacy.

828
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 3: And so if you want to honor who he was,

829
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: honor him fully.

830
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 4: This is part of that.

831
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 3: Even if you love his free speech and love all

832
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: the other things that he's done, don't just take the good.

833
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 4: Take a full accounting of who the man was.

834
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: Right, right, agreed, And you're right. I think that that's

835
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: got to be something that we have to remember, is

836
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: that as long as we keep talking about it and

837
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: making sure we tell the full story, or at least

838
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: the full story as we know it, and continue to

839
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: unfold for the sake of all the survivors like those

840
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: who are speaking out that we support them by making

841
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 2: sure that we elevate their voice.

842
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well obviously we had a lot of thoughts,

843
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: we had a lot to say. So, Bridgets, where can

844
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: the good listeners find you?

845
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: Well, you can find me at my podcast. There are

846
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 3: no girls on the internet where we were having similar

847
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: conversations about the legacy of women and technology and digital media.

848
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: Well, thank you as always, Bridget for being here. We

849
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: love having you. Clearly we could go on and on

850
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: and on, so thank you so much for taking the time.

851
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: And this brings us to the end of our epic

852
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: conversation on you Efner. Maybe there will be an epilogue,

853
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: as we discussed.

854
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly there's gonna be so much more because

855
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: I honestly forgot one big chunk that on Hugh Hefner's

856
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 2: real like the beginning may have been because he was

857
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: essentially kind of an in cell like he may have

858
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: been essentially an in cel because he changed his whole

859
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: perspective on women and what he had to be in

860
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: order to get women. So the legend goes, because he

861
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: was rejected biogirl in his high school to the point

862
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: that he wrote about her for many years later. Wow,

863
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 2: and then this and then that he changed his whole

864
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: appearance and his whole like uh I guess out like

865
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: his whole personality essentially according to old friends. So yeah,

866
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: I think there has to be an epilogue because we definitely,

867
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: even with the two hours that we spent in this conversation,

868
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 2: there was so much more that we had left out.

869
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 2: Is intense.

870
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Speaker 1: It's sad how often that is the case of like

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Speaker 1: a guy gets spurned in high school and then becomes

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Speaker 1: the founder of Facebook or what have you. Right, that's

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00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: not exactly what happened there, but similar well, I look

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Speaker 1: forward to and I'm nervous about the epilogue. It's always

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Speaker 1: great to hang out with Bridget, who's so kind with

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Speaker 1: her time when we kept going and had so much

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Speaker 1: to say. Listeners. If you have any thoughts about this,

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Speaker 1: you can contact us. You can email ust Stephanie and

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Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us

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00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, our Instagram and TikTok

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00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: at stuff We've Never told You. We're also on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a

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Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

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00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: as always too, our super produced Christina, our executive producer,

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Speaker 1: my intrbutor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stuff Never told you his prediction of iHeartRadio. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, you can check out the

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows,