WEBVTT - Was Mister Rogers the Best Neighbor Ever? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.639 Guess what will what's that man go? So this week 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:04.520 I was thinking back on one of my favorite Mr. 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.119 Rogers facts. It's about when Coco the Gorilla met Mr Rogers. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.840 You're on Coco with the Gorilla, right, I love Coco. Yeah, 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.280 she was the one that she knew sign language, right, Yeah, 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.479 that's right. So when Coco met Mr Rogers, she was 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.639 already a huge fan. Apparently, scientists used to play the 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.439 program for Cocos. So when he walked in, she got 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.319 really excited. And not only did she give him like 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.960 this big hug, and Coco was I mean like she 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.640 was big, right, yeah, enormous, So you have to imagine 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:34.080 this giant gorilla just enveloping this rail thin man. But 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.559 then she started taking his shoes off, and he was 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.040 a little surprised, but then he realized she was only 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.720 doing that because it was the same way he used 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.960 to start every single show. I mean, well, everybody loves Mr. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.639 Rogers exactly, and there are a million stories about how 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:50.839 good and kind he was in real life and just 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.800 how beloved he was, even by gorillas. But with all 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.160 the tension and politics and general horrible nous going on 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:58.800 in the world today, we thought it'd be nice to 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.960 do a little Thanksgiving show about one of our favorite 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.160 neighbors and really one of my favorite humans, Fred Rogers. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:26.360 Let's dive in, kay. Welcome wartime genius. I'm Will Pearson 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.400 and as always I'm joined by my good friend Man Guesh. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.280 I ticketter and sitting behind the sound proof glass zipping 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.319 up his card again. Over that another card. It's two 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.080 card against double card again. That's our friend and producer 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.080 Tristan McNeil. Alright, so Ango, we're obviously talking about Mr 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.880 Rogers today, and I'm guessing you watched a ton of 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.440 Mr Rogers growing up. I did, I mean from our generation. 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.279 I really don't know anyone who wasn't influenced by Mr Rogers. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:53.640 But at my house, we didn't watch a ton of TV, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.280 but we watched a lot of PBS, like we watched 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.559 Sesame Street and reading Rambo. We actually subscribed to three 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.920 to one Contact magazine, which actually had an influence on 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.560 Metal Floss and and uh, you know, there were shows 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.880 like Square one and Carmen San Diego. But I definitely 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.000 remember watching Mr Rogers and talking to the screen when 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.200 Mr Rogers would ask questions, and also like learning Little 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.600 tricks from the show for some reason, always cracked me up. 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.280 I love watching kids talk to my kids still do that. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.760 But so, do you remember what tricks you learned? Yeah, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.600 I mean this is kind of ridiculous, but there was 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.080 an episode where he was doing some craft and he 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.200 made a little paper house just out of like a 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.280 single sheet of construction paper, and then he bent and 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.200 cut out a front door so that would open like 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.520 a real door. And for some reason I kind of 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.400 filed that away. And then in kindergarten during this holiday party, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.800 when we were coloring gingerbread houses, I snuck over to 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.119 this tin of scissors and cut out the front door 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.680 like I had seen just two sniffs, so swing open 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.840 or whatever. And all the adults were so impressed. And 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.160 when everyone asked me how I'd come up with such 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.880 a clever idea, I just kind of shrugged. I took 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:58.840 credit for it. I know, I totally stole it from 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.600 Mr Rogers, and I will carry that guilt. I would too. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.720 That's pretty stealing from Mr Rogers. And I'm sure those 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.160 adults are still talking about it too, how creative that 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.360 mango is. But yeah, of course I watched Mr Rogers too, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.680 but it was. It was always funny how Mr Rogers 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.280 kind of became this thing at at Mental Flaws, it 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.880 was really your thing, and you wrote an article about 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.440 him when we first launched the website. I think it 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.080 was called like fifteen Reasons Mr Rogers was the best 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.200 neighbor ever, something like that. So I honestly think he 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.240 should be America's patron saint. I probably watched a little 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.200 more Mr Rogers than most people because my mom was 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.359 a preschool teacher. And actually, what's funny is that story 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.880 for Mental Flass was actually the second list I'd written 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.160 about Mr Rogers. Really, so what was the what was 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.720 the first? Well, in seventh grade, we had to do 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.480 this writing assignment where we talked about an inspirational figure 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:45.960 in our lives and we had to get in front 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.440 of the class for five minutes, and it was supposed 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.119 to be serious. I think, uh, some kids talked about 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.960 their grandparents or people they considered heroes, but instead of 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.120 writting something meaningful, I think I was trying to impress 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:57.880 some girls in my class. So I decided to do 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:59.840 mine on Mr Rogers and why I thought he should 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.680 be president, and I presented it as a top ten list, 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.200 which was super edgy at the time, but the whole 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.480 thing was full of bad jokes about how he'd make 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.600 America feel special. And I'd also really gotten into Eddie 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.400 Murphy at the time, so I'd seen Eddie Murphy's SNL parody. 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.760 But I also included things like how Mr Rogers had 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.960 actually really influenced my style wearing cardigans and low top sneakers. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.960 I put so little effort into this thing, and honestly, 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.159 most of my five minutes was spent with me on 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:31.159 a stool, slowly zipping up my sweater and uh, putting 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.320 on sneakers, just really hamming it off. I don't know 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.440 why this is so easy for me to picture, like 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.200 you giving that same presentation now, but it is funny. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.839 If you had not mentioned Mr Robinson or Eddie Murphy's 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.960 character on SNL, I definitely was going to there. There 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.480 was a good story about this. I actually read that 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.560 one time Fred Rogers happened to be at thirty Rocks, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.160 so he decided to sneak in and surprise Eddie Murphy, 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.560 you know, just to meet him in person. So he 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.960 goes up and knocks on his door, and when Eddie 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.280 opens it, He was, of course stunned. I mean, there's 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.960 Mr Rogers just standing there grinning at him, and so 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.480 Eddie was supposedly a little bit embarrassed by the situation, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.440 but he just gives him a big hug and smiles 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.680 and says, it's the real Mr Robinson. Oh, I love that. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.400 So so did your class like your presentation? Not to 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.080 go back to that, but it's just I can't stop 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.159 thinking about it. Like it, I think so. But the 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.440 worst part was that the teacher liked it, so for 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.520 the next assignment she made everyone else do a top 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.320 ten list of celebrities that should be president, right, which 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.760 we have now, I guess. But honestly, now that I'm 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.120 saying this out loud, all of it makes zero's sense, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.720 you know. I know we both read and loved Tom 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.360 Juno's piece for Esquire years later and realized what an 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.560 amazing figure Mr Rogers actually was. There's so many incredible 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.440 parts of the story, but one of the things I 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.920 loved most was that wherever Fred went, people wanted to 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.920 tell him how much he meant to them. Everywhere. Actually, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.200 I pulled this passage from the story because I wanted 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.120 to read it here. It says um quote. Once upon 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.240 a time Mr Rogers went to New York City and 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.560 got caught in the rain. He didn't have an umbrella, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.159 and he couldn't find the taxi either, so he ducked 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.000 with a friend in the subway and got on one 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.240 of the trains. It was late in the day and 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.560 the train was crowded with children who were going home 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.120 from school. So of all races, the school children were 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.320 mostly black and Latino, and and they didn't even approach 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.000 Mr Rogers and asked him for his autograph or anything 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.719 like that. They just sang. They sang all at once, 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.760 all together the song he sings at the start of 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.200 his program, Won't You Be My Neighbor? And it turned 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.840 this clattering train into a single, soft, runaway choir. I mean, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.680 it isn't just great, that's so wonderful. I mean he 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.640 did do eight episodes and thirty one seasons of that show, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.799 so um I looked up the numbers and it reached 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.799 eight million families every week, So obviously he was bound 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.320 to run into some fans. But that Juno piece is 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.680 honestly one of my favorite magazine stories ever. And for 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.919 those of you listening, it's written as these vignettes of 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.080 him interacting with kids and interacting with the author, and 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.279 you just leave it wondering how can pur and be 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.880 that good? I mean, it sounds ludicrous, but reading that 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.120 story made me want to be a better person. And 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.520 I think you know, wrote that piece in the late nineties, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.680 and then six or seven years later when you couldn't 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.920 find that story online because so many magazines had pulled 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.400 all their content from the Internet. I I wrote that 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.960 list partially because I generally wanted readers to rediscover that article. Yeah, 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:20.600 and so we'll definitely link out to it from our 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.800 Facebook page. All right, so we we've talked around Mr Rogers, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.640 but why don't we dive into his actual story here? Sure, 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.680 but why don't we start by each giving one fact 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.400 we learned about him this week? You always want to 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.760 skip right to the facts, be patient, whatever. I can't 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.960 hope that they're so fun. But here's mine. Did you 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.680 know Mr Rogers was the official celebrity captain of the 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.679 Pittsburgh Penguins. Like the hockey. Yeah, hockey doesn't exactly seem 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.400 like Mr Rogers. Yeah, I don't think it is either, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.840 but for season, and this was the NHL seventy anniversary, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.240 every team got to pick a celebrity captain, and most 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.880 of the teams picked like a list celebrities or movie 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.840 stars or whatever. But the Penguins picked him. And there 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.880 was even this rookie trading card they made for Mr Rogers. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.680 Oh my gosh, I love that. So is he wearing 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.720 a hockey uniform in it? I wish it's just a 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.240 picture of him in his neighborhood. But hearing that made 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.080 me like hockey a little more. Um, why why don't 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.560 you tell me about fact you liked? It's hard to 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.680 surprise you with these facts, but there, I mean, there 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.400 are some good ones, like like, once you realize how 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.280 committed he was to kids in childhood development, it makes 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.800 sense that you know, he taught himself to speak slowly. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:27.880 I think he spoke at a rate of a hundred 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.640 and twenty four words per minute, because that's actually the 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.000 optimal speed for kids in the you know, three to 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.760 five age range. That's so crazy that he was not committed. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.480 But h what's your actual fact? All right? Uh? I 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.480 don't know. Maybe that he was a vegetarian. He actually 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.800 owns shares in a vegetarian magazine called vegetarian time. That's 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.240 so strange. You know, my mom actually used to subscribe 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.439 to this nice and a lot in common. Well, he 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.560 stopped eating meat in the seventies because he didn't want 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.880 to eat anything with a mother. And when he was 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.120 profiled in the magazine, he said, I love tofu burgers 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.560 and beats. He has to be the only NHL captain 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.280 in history to ever say those. But let's get back 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:07.920 to this bio. Why don't you give us a quick 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.800 rundown of how Mr Rogers got into TV? Al right, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.920 I can do that, so, um, Fred mcpheeley Rogers, How 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.880 great is it that his middle name was mcpheel like 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.720 was born in n in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. He grew up 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.120 to be a puppeteer and an ordained minister, but he 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.240 had a suite and fairly ordinary childhood. He was a 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.840 gifted pianist. He was editor of his high school paper, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.600 president of student council. Not surprisingly, he did really well 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.240 in school, and when he graduated, he decided to go 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.160 to Dartmouth to study Romance languages, but then he transferred 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.240 out a year later than that to go to Rollins 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.400 College because he wanted to pursue music. Yeah, I've read 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.719 that he composed like two songs from Mr Rogers neighborhood. Yeah, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.720 that's right. And I actually thought he was playing the 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.040 piano at the start of the show because I knew 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.320 that he could play the piano, and and because he 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.680 does play on the show when he sings. But but 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.640 at the beginning of the show, it's actually his friend, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.560 the jazz musician Johnny Costa. You know, I hadn't heard 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.960 of Johnny Costa before this week, and I read that 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.360 he and Fred went way back and that this was 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:08.920 kind of a steady side gig in rough times for him. 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.400 But being friends. Mr Rogers new costas financial situation and 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.800 the salary he offered him was the exact amount Costa 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.800 needed to put his son through college. It's not kind 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.240 of sweet. But from your reading, is Costa famous? Like 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.640 I didn't really know about him. Well, I mean, I 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.240 think people in jazz circles knew him. You know. Apparently 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.000 Ella Fitzgerald's pianist used to tune into the last five 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.640 minutes of Mr. Rogers every day just to quote here 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.400 what Johnny was up to, because he was that good. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.640 And I do have to add this because it's a 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:40.480 very Mr. Rogers fact. So Johnny said, children understand good music. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.160 I would never play piddling nursery rhyme. That's pretty neat. 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.240 But we'll get into Fred Rogers philosophy and a bit. 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.000 But it was never too dumb down anything. It was 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:54.280 always about respecting the kids and their feelings and their intelligence. 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.680 You know, it's funny. I heard Sarah Silverman talking about 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.480 a really difficult topic this week, but as she was 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.440 kind of talking herself up to it, she said, quote, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.800 if it's mentionable, it's manageable, and like that kind of 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.560 stuck with me and I thought, what a nice quote. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.080 And then as we're doing this research, I realized that's 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.720 actually a Mr. Rogers phrase and one he used about 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.080 talking about difficult topics on his show. But we should 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.839 get back to the biography. Yeah, alright. So so Fred 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.920 goes to college and he meets his wife Jean there, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.760 who's also a pianist. But when he's home on break 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.800 from school, he watches TV and he sees people throwing 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.800 pies in each other's faces, and he has this pretty 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.839 visceral reaction to it, as you know puts it. Fred 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:38.040 was quote the soft sun of overprotective parents, but he 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.280 certainly had conviction. And and right then, while watching this 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.400 mean spirited pie throwing Fred realized that if TV is 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.400 going to have this sweeping effect on our culture, he 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.200 wanted to fight against programmings, base or impulses. He wanted 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.880 to fight for what he called broadcasting of grace through 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.280 the land. I don't know exactly what that means, but 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.080 it sounds kind of so. So when he became this 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.520 ordained menace or which which he did at the same 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.079 time that he went through grad school for child development, 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.480 he decided to use all of those skills on television. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.800 And that's when he started Mr Rogers in Pittsburgh. Well 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:12.760 not exactly at that point. I mean, he'd done a 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.320 little puppeteering and TV producing, but his first real gig 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.840 as Mr Rogers was actually in Canada, and that's when 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.560 he first got on camera, and the show was called Mr. Rogers. Weirdly, 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.320 for some reason, it was all one word. I'm not 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.720 sure why, but it only lasted a year or two 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.520 because Fred decided he wanted to raise his kids back 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.760 home and and that's when Mr. Rogers Neighborhood really kicked off. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.920 So I of course want to talk about his pacing 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.400 of the show and how he used that medium for good, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.280 but I also wanted to take a second to talk 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.319 about his wardrobe. I know a lot of people may 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.320 know that all of the cardigans on the show were 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.199 knit by his mother. Apparently she used to knit one 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.959 sweater a month for family members, and she'd ask Fred 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.040 what color this year, So wearing that cardigan was this 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.760 little tribute to his mom. But taking off his dress 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.679 shoes at the beginning of the show actually had an 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.720 alternate purpose. Really, I mean, I'm guessing it was just 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.000 to make the kids feel cozy. If you remember, back 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.160 in our education episode we talked about the fact that 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.760 it helps kids concentrate better in school when they take 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.720 their shoes off. Was was that what this had to 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.760 do with? Yeah, that might have been a side benefit, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.880 but his dress shoes also clunked and squeaked, so walking 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.400 around the studio with quieter and less squeaky shoes is 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.000 why he switched to sneakers. Okay, all right, Well, I 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.760 want to get to the actual TV show along with 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.160 some of the heartwarming stories about him. But before we 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:40.800 do that, why don't we take a quick break, Welcome 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.400 back to Part time Genius. So we're talking Mr. Rogers 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.960 and how he used his neighborhood to educate kids. So 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.960 let's talk for a second about the pacing of the show. Yeah, 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.520 so Rogers like the show to move slow but deep. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.920 So he talked kids through things like anxiety, telling kids 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.960 they were too big to slip down the drain, or 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.959 talking about how things like haircuts don't actually hurt, or 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.320 even talking about complex things like divorce. And they're also 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.440 field trips around the neighborhood to nurture curiosity and the 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.800 land to make believe was there, you know, the place 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.000 the trolley would go to with all the poppeting. But um, 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.360 what's really interesting to me is how much he studied 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.400 kids nature and the way they learned. So there was 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.960 this one Yale psychology study that compared the effect of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.440 Sesame Street on kids versus Mr Rogers neighborhood and the 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.080 results were sort of surprising. So why was that. Well, 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.160 the kids who watched Mr Rogers remembered the storylines better 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.440 and they also had a better tolerance of delay. Essentially, 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.640 they were more patient when they've been promised treats. I mean, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.920 but you've seen old sesame streets though. I mean, I 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.160 know there's some quick moving graphics from time to time, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.080 but for the most part those shows seem pretty slow. Yeah, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.320 but Mr Rogers really worked to keep the show as 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.240 seamless as possible, Like he'd rehearsed the show over and 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.480 over because he wanted to be thoughtful about every word 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.280 he used, and he didn't want to make too many cuts, 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.600 partially because that can be jarring to viewers watching so intensely. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.440 You know, it is funny to contrast this show with 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.840 something like SpongeBob or show like that. I remember our 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.960 friend Ethan Trucks and Mental Flass telling us about this 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.240 study from two thousand eleven that the show was basically 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.840 making kids dumber. You know, there was this uv A 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.280 study that that looked at a group of four year 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.240 olds that were allowed to watch an educational cartoons, some 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.880 that watched SpongeBob or spend their time coloring, and after 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.160 nine or ten minutes, they then tested the kids on 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.640 puzzle solving and following instructions and also a tolerance of delay, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.040 and the kids who watched SpongeBob did by far the worst. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:35.920 I mean, I'm guessing that's because all those quick cuts 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.320 made it hard to process for kids, right. Yeah, but 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.720 you know, the way the study was argued against was 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.640 pretty hilarious. There was a spokesman from Nickelodeon that started 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.160 out by saying that the show is intended for older kids, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.160 but then the argument devolved into something like, quote, watching 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.720 a sponge in pants is just a new and unfamiliar 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.360 concept for kids to wrap their head around. Yeah, I'm 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.920 not sure that's what caused the lower scores. There's also 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.600 that great story of one coming to the studio to 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.520 put a fish on microphone and feed them in the aquarium, 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.320 like Mr Rogers wanted to hear the sound of fish 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.400 eating and and it was all being taped live, but 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.480 the person kept trying to hurry the fish along because 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.400 they just weren't feeding, so uh, they'd say things like 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.440 chow time or dinner bell and Mr Rogers just kind 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.760 of patiently waited. And afterwards he revealed his philosophy that 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.080 it's okay for kids not to have that immediate gratification, 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:27.800 that they can learn to wait through watching the program. 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.840 It's just remarkable, really. I mean, the other thing Mr 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.280 Rogers was really thoughtful about with social issues, which he 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.080 kind of saws Christian issues as well. So Michael Long 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.560 of HuffPo wrote up a few things he'd noticed, and 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.280 here are some of the things I didn't realize about 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.680 the show. So ten years before Sally Ride, Mr Rogers 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.680 had his puppet character Lady Elaine Fairchild fly to outer 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.000 space and discover new planets. And then two years before 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.600 Barbara Walters broke through as the first female anchor on 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.320 the Evening News, he actually had Lady Elaine break that 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.760 barrier as well. She's just breaking barriers, and you know, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.240 and and and obviously those are imaginary characters and and 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.840 I do think they affected kids perceptions of what women 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.760 were capable of. But he also had some real people 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.680 on the show to stress these points as well. Right. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.119 I read that he created a character Mayor Maggie of 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.840 Southwood played by an African American actor in nineteen seventy five, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.960 which I guess was almost like fifteen years before an 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.520 African American woman would become the mayor of a big city. Yeah, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.159 And actually the character he created after Martin Luther King 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.440 Junior's assassination in nineteen sixty eight was also really important. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.119 So he asked this musician friend of his whose voice 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.040 he loved to play the role of officer. Clements and 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.200 Story Corps did this incredible interview with Francois Clements that 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.880 deserves to be listened to. But here's how he described 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.040 it to NPR. Quote, I grew up in the ghetto. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.800 I did not have a positive opinion of police officers. 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.119 Policemen were sicking police dogs and water hoses on people, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.680 and I had a hard time putting myself in that role. 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.439 So I think he really struggled with it because he 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.959 liked Fred but was conflicted about the impact he could have. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.040 But then in nine nine there was this episode where 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.480 Mr Rogers is resting his feet in a kiddie pool 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.520 on a hot day, and as Clements put it, quote, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.440 he invited me to come over and rest my feet 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.440 in the water with him. The icon Fred Rogers was 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.480 not only showing my brown skin in the tub with 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.040 his white skin as two friends, but as I was 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.320 getting out of the tub, he was helping me dry 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.440 my feet. I mean, that whole story just kills me. Yeah. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.199 And the thing is is like, it's so hard to 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.560 pick these stories because there are so many of them. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.640 I actually saw a quote from Clemens where Mr Rogers 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.720 was ending the show the way he always did. He 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.439 was hanging up his sweater and telling the audience you 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.320 make every day a special day just by being you, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.399 and I like you just the way you are. And 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.960 on that particular day, Clements thought Rogers was looking at him, 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.000 so he walks up to him and asks, Fred, were 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.680 you talking to me? And this is how NPR tells it. Yes, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.320 I've been talking to you for years, Rogers said, but 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.199 you heard me today. It was like telling me that 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.840 I'm okay as a human being, Clements says, And and 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.720 that was one of the most meaningful experiences I'd ever had. 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.600 I know. They're honestly a million stories of Mr Rogers 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.240 doing kind thing, from how he'd get up at five 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.640 thirty every morning to answer massive piles of mail, like 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.280 every person who wrote in got a note back. He'd 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.760 also make friends with journalists, which made him a really 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.880 hard interview because he take photos of them and their 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.640