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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Josh here and for this week's select, I

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Speaker 1: chose our April twenty nineteen episode on free range parenting.

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Speaker 1: This was an episode that I initially approached with some preconceptions,

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Speaker 1: and they turned out to be quite wrong. I was

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Speaker 1: raised with quite a bit of freedom, and I assume

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Speaker 1: that parents still kind of raise their kids in that manner.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that they don't, and even more

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Speaker 1: to the point, that's basically illegal these days. Fortunately, there's

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Speaker 1: a movement pushing back against that, and I'm all for it.

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Speaker 1: See what you decide in this great episode of Stuff.

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Speaker 2: You Should Know.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and

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Speaker 1: there's Jerry over there, and this is Stuff you should

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Speaker 1: Know about kids.

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Speaker 4: Can I CoA right off the bat here?

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Speaker 2: I presumed you would.

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Speaker 4: All right, there's a couple of coas I want to issue.

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Speaker 3: One, we are not telling anyone how to parent their children, indeed,

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Speaker 3: And two we realize that the whole concept of free

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Speaker 3: range parenting that will follow is comes from a place

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Speaker 3: of extreme privilege. Yes, to be able to entertain the

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Speaker 3: idea of free range parenting comes from a place of

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Speaker 3: extreme privilege.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Can I amend that or should I wait until

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Speaker 1: we talk about that part to kind of amend it.

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Speaker 4: No, you can amend it.

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Speaker 2: So to me, free range.

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Speaker 1: Parenting, having the freedom to free range parent is what

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Speaker 1: I saw it ties in with parenting that's already being

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Speaker 1: done by people who might not have a choice.

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Speaker 2: Are you saying that the.

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Speaker 1: Ability to choose whether you want a free range parent

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Speaker 1: or not is privileged?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, agreed, I gotcha.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and again we'll get into that,

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Speaker 3: but we'll get into that at the end.

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Speaker 4: But I just want to just go ahead and.

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Speaker 3: Lead that off because it's a lot of privilege involved

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Speaker 3: with being able to say, you know that you want

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Speaker 3: a free range parent.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to Are you going to land one

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Speaker 2: way or another on.

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Speaker 3: It on whether or not I support free range parenting?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Emily, and I don't title it or

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Speaker 3: say hey, I think we should do this as a style,

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Speaker 3: but we, as it turns out, are sort of dabbling

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Speaker 3: in free range parenting a bit as much as you

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Speaker 3: can for a three and a half year old.

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Speaker 2: So you're listening to your instincts.

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Speaker 3: I've never read a parenting book, not knocking them, but

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Speaker 3: I've never read one. Parent by instinct, and our daughter

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Speaker 3: has always had a lot of room to free play

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Speaker 3: and explore and figure stuff out on our own and

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Speaker 3: fall down and get back up and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm reading between the lines. You guys haven't decided yet.

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Speaker 4: All right, so ready pre range parenting.

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Speaker 1: Go Okay, So do you remember when we were kids, Chuck, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: back when we used to hang out when we were kids,

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Speaker 1: and we would go ride bikes together at like sunrise.

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Speaker 1: We had no idea where we were going to go,

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Speaker 1: but it might involve a swamp, could involve a glacier.

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Speaker 1: There may have been like rail riding hoboes that we

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Speaker 1: shared lunch with. Who knows what the day was going

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Speaker 1: to bring, but we were up for all that and

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Speaker 1: may or may not have engaged in any of that

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Speaker 1: during that day. And then at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: around sunset, maybe a little later, depending on whether it

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Speaker 1: was summer or not, we'd ride our bikes back home,

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Speaker 1: say see you tomorrow, go to our respective houses, and

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Speaker 1: then talk the night away on our soup cans that

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Speaker 1: were connected by a rope.

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Speaker 2: And that was our childhood, right we turned out me.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I have talked about my childhood some growing up,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I grew up in the woods basically

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Speaker 3: on like a couple of acres of land with a

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Speaker 3: creek and forest. Not in a subdivision, but on a

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Speaker 3: street with like seven houses in the woods, right, And

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Speaker 3: my mother had a we had this giant iron bell,

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Speaker 3: probably about eighteen inches across on a mounted on a

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Speaker 3: big like a telephone pole.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, kind of right beside our driveway.

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Speaker 3: And she would at the you know, when it was

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Speaker 3: dinner time in the evening, she would go pull that

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Speaker 3: bell and you could hear it from like a mile away,

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Speaker 3: this the bell tolling. And that's when Scott and I

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Speaker 3: were like, all right, you know it's time to go

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Speaker 3: eat after having been out all day long with zero supervision.

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Speaker 3: And I had a great mom, Like, she wasn't neglectful.

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Speaker 3: This is just how it was done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, were you a latch key kid? I know your

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Speaker 1: mom was a teacher, but did she stay at home

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Speaker 1: with you?

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Speaker 4: She didn't go back to teaching.

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Speaker 3: She'd quit teaching to raise kids and then started up

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Speaker 3: again when I was like, I feel like eighth or

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Speaker 3: ninth grade or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, my mom took off until I was.

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Speaker 1: Like six seven. I guess, like kinder No, maybe she's

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Speaker 1: still around in kindergart. I guess about first grade when

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Speaker 1: I was when I started school and she was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going back to nursing. And then after that point,

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Speaker 1: I was a last key kid for like the rest

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Speaker 1: of my life. But I had like older sisters who

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Speaker 1: would be home around the time I would, and but

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Speaker 1: I had like my own key to my house that

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Speaker 1: was just a couple of blocks away from my school,

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Speaker 1: and I would walk myself or ride my bike myself,

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Speaker 1: and then I would be home by myself if my

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Speaker 1: sister was and something else for a couple hours until

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Speaker 1: either my mom or my dad showed up. And I

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Speaker 1: think I turned out pretty well.

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Speaker 4: Too, so that I even had a house key.

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Speaker 1: Ever, well, you guys probably didn't lock your doors. If

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Speaker 1: your mom rang a bell on a telephone pole to

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Speaker 1: call you in for dinner.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't think we locked our door.

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Speaker 2: Okay, But but you were.

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Speaker 1: You had free range literally of your your house, your yard,

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Speaker 1: the woods around you. But here's a really big caveat

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Speaker 1: from what I've seen, I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who are like who aren't familiar necessarily free range parenting,

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Speaker 1: assumed that we could have done anything we wanted and

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Speaker 1: gotten away with it because we were we had overly

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Speaker 1: permissive parents. That's not the case for me, and I

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Speaker 1: would dare say that wasn't the case for you as well.

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Speaker 1: That we actually had plenty of rules and structure. We

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Speaker 1: were just also given a lot of freedom to do

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Speaker 1: things within that rules and structure, including geographic freedom.

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Speaker 4: Right for sure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so that is what I thought all kids

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Speaker 1: had up to this time. And I knew that there

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Speaker 1: was like such things as piano and mandarin lessons or

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Speaker 1: Mandarin classes, that kind of stuff, like things that kids

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Speaker 1: were taking more and more and they were really busy

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Speaker 1: and stressed out, and they had like like iPhones at

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Speaker 1: age seven, that kind of thing. But I still thought

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Speaker 1: that this happened, And I was really shocked, about as

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Speaker 1: shocked as I've ever been in researching an episode of

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know to find that that is not

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Speaker 1: the case. That not only does has this been kind

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Speaker 1: of squeezed out by other activities, it's actually become criminalized

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Speaker 1: behavior by society at large, among the parents who are

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Speaker 1: raising children today. I was blown away to find this out.

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Speaker 1: I really legitimately didn't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and getting back to the activities, you know,

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Speaker 3: I played some soccer in high school, and then I did.

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Speaker 4: Like church sports, which there's not a lot of.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think we did like maybe one basketball

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Speaker 3: practice a week, so it wasn't like every day practice

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that. I never took lessons of any kind. Uh,

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Speaker 3: Like I taught myself guitar and all that stuff. So like,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I literally ever had a structured post

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Speaker 3: school activity in my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you say church sports.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I played church softball and basketball.

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Speaker 2: Did like everybody win every game?

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Speaker 4: No, it was actually fiercely competitive.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, it was. It was.

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Speaker 3: It was legit like we had a pretty good basketball

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Speaker 3: team in the league. Was pretty impressive too. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't, I don't. I never signed it. I never

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Speaker 3: had a single class. Like the idea of my mom

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Speaker 3: having been like, all right, I'm going to take you

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Speaker 3: to your violin lesson, and then on the weekends we

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Speaker 3: have gymnastics and uh, whatever else.

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Speaker 4: People are doing these days, was just it, just it.

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Speaker 4: We didn't do that. She was just like, go play.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So, so there has been and we'll talk about all

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Speaker 1: the reasons why, but there has been a movement away

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Speaker 1: from the kind of childhood we had, a very pronounced one.

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Speaker 1: If you, if you look at you know, culture is

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Speaker 1: a pendulum swinging one way or another. It has swung

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Speaker 1: very far the opposite way to where kids' lives are

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Speaker 1: structured down to the minute, where they have actual calendars

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Speaker 1: and schedules that they have to keep up with because

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Speaker 1: they have so many things going on. And there has

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Speaker 1: come about, in reaction to that, an antithesis basically, and

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Speaker 1: it is nothing more than letting kids grow up the

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Speaker 1: way that you and I did that. And it has

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Speaker 1: become so novel in the face of the world. And

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Speaker 1: the culture that we have in raising kids in the

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Speaker 1: United States, now that it has its own name, it's

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Speaker 1: a movement. They have to go to court to defend themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's so weird. But really, if you strip it down

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Speaker 1: and look at it, all they're doing is raising their

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Speaker 1: kids the way.

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Speaker 2: You and I and Jerry I'm sure was raised.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean to a certain degree, but the

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Speaker 3: whole idea, and it's not just like I want you

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Speaker 3: to grow up the way I did. It's what it

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Speaker 3: really is is an argument that says, you know what,

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Speaker 3: kids will grow up healthier and happier if they have

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Speaker 3: freedom to play and they have freedom to fail and

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Speaker 3: freedom to get in a playground scrap and to work

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Speaker 3: it out with another kid on their own and figure

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Speaker 3: things out for themselves. They will end up better people

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Speaker 3: because of this. It's not oh, I'm lazy or I

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Speaker 3: have nostalgia for my childhood. It's and you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of research into this now or some research

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Speaker 3: that says, no, what we're doing is is trying to

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Speaker 3: make better future adults by not hovering over my child

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Speaker 3: scheduling them to death. And you know, every time they fall,

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Speaker 3: run over, pick themselves up and like and you know,

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Speaker 3: rock them to sleep, you know if they get a booboo.

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Speaker 2: Right, So I sound so judging.

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Speaker 4: I don't mean that.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's let's just take a second. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: break real quick and like collect ourselves and then we'll

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Speaker 1: come back and we'll really get into what free range

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Speaker 1: parenting is.

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Speaker 2: Well, now we're on the road driving in your truck.

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Speaker 4: I want to learn a thing or two from josh

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Speaker 4: Am Chuck.

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Speaker 2: It's stuff you should know.

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Speaker 5: Should all right, thanks, shot, shot stop?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: So, I think you demonstrated something that is has made

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Speaker 1: free range parenting very unpalatable to a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of parents who don't raise their kids that way.

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Speaker 1: And then it seems to be a react, almost in

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Speaker 1: your face to some people, reaction or judgment of that

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Speaker 1: helicopter style parenting where you're always kind of around your kid.

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Speaker 1: Their entire life is very structured and supervised, including playtime,

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Speaker 1: and that free range parenting is meant to be a

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Speaker 1: reaction to that, and in some ways it is a

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Speaker 1: reaction to that, but it also stands on its own

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Speaker 1: and if you step back and look at it and

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Speaker 1: look at free range parenting not as a reaction to

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Speaker 1: helicopter parenting, but as its own thing, is its own

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Speaker 1: philosophy for how to raise a kid, and you strip

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Speaker 1: away like.

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Speaker 2: The judginess and all that stuff. It holds up to me.

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Speaker 1: And like you said, there's been a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot more study recently, but the whole thing really started

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight by a journalist. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't a child psychologist. It wasn't a child development psychologist.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a child development, child analyst, psychologist, none of

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Speaker 1: those things that made that last one up, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it was a journalist named Leonora Skenazi.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so she is a New York mom. In two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eight, she wrote a column for The New

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Speaker 3: York Sun called Why I let my nine year old

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Speaker 3: ride the subway alone. She was in a store one

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Speaker 3: day in Manhattan and her son had been badgering her

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Speaker 3: to be able to ride the subway and bus back

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Speaker 3: home by himself. And finally one day she said, all right, great,

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Speaker 3: let's do this. Here's a subway map, here's a subway card,

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Speaker 3: here's twenty bucks, here's some change for a payphone.

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Speaker 4: Have at it.

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Speaker 3: The kid made it home, and she said he was

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Speaker 3: quote ecstatic with independence.

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Speaker 2: What great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like she got a lot of blowback from

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Speaker 3: this from like the judgment goes both ways. I mean

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Speaker 3: there were people that said it was neglect and abuse

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Speaker 3: for her to do this and let her kid ride

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Speaker 3: the subway alone.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh yes, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you had to divide the two sides up and

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Speaker 1: start weighing which one was a little judgi or you

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Speaker 1: would definitely your hand would be much lower holding the

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Speaker 1: helicopter parents side, for sure. Yeah, if you're a free

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Speaker 1: range kid proponent or you raise your kids following that,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole burden, whole social burden that you have

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Speaker 1: in addition to the burden of raising your kids that

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Speaker 1: you have to put up with, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I should point out too real quick that

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Speaker 3: it all depends upon your kids too. I don't think

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Speaker 3: there are any sweeping generalizations. Sure, my daughter has always

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Speaker 3: been very just instinctively kind of safe and smart about stuff.

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Speaker 3: Ye other kids in her class are just like little

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Speaker 3: wild banshees, And I would probably be a lot more

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Speaker 3: worried if she was the kind of kid who has

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Speaker 3: an instinct to like jump out of a tree instead

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Speaker 3: of like back down very slowly out of a tree.

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Speaker 3: So right, it's all different depending on your kid.

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Speaker 1: Or a kid who like can't seem to shake being

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Speaker 1: totally fascinated with matches or knives.

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Speaker 2: Or something like that. Yeah, I think that was a.

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Speaker 1: Really good point, Like it's you shouldn't sweep or generalize,

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Speaker 1: But I think that's an even larger point too, people

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Speaker 1: should be left to raise their children how they see fit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, given a.

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Speaker 2: Certain amount of.

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Speaker 1: Trust invested in the parents, that the parent isn't going

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Speaker 1: to harm the kid or let harm come to the

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Speaker 1: kid because it's their parent, right right. Okay, So this

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Speaker 1: whole thing started with Lenor Skins, and like you said,

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Speaker 1: she got a lot of blowback, but she also got

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Speaker 1: a really positive response too, and actually parlayed the whole

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Speaker 1: thing from that New York Sun article into a blog

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Speaker 1: that she called Free Range Kids. So, from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: she coined the term free range kids and started writing

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Speaker 1: about this stuff. And at first a lot of it

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Speaker 1: was just like it's it's good. It's on its face,

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Speaker 1: it's obvious that this is you should raise a kid.

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Speaker 1: You know, kids need play, they need to learn how

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Speaker 1: to pick themselves back up when they fall down. And

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Speaker 1: not only that, you're doing a disservice to your kid

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Speaker 1: when you pick them up after they fall down, because

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Speaker 1: they're not learning how to get back up themselves. And

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Speaker 1: over time it kind of went as people became more

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Speaker 1: and more enamored with her philosophy or this whole free

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Speaker 1: range kids idea.

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Speaker 2: More child psychologists.

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Speaker 1: Started weighing in, and the whole movement kind of took

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Speaker 1: the shape and they figured out that for a parent

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Speaker 1: to kind of see the light as they as far

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Speaker 1: as they were concerned, they had to first change the

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Speaker 1: mindset about what kind of world they were raising a

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Speaker 1: kid in, because if you're a free range kid parent,

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Speaker 1: you probably don't feel as threatened by the world in

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Speaker 1: general as say a helicopter parent would.

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Speaker 4: Ounce for ounce, Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 3: I mean when parents have experimented with this, the changes

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Speaker 3: that they've seen in their kids has been pretty striking,

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Speaker 3: if anecdotal. There's this one woman, Dana Bloomberg. She's a

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Speaker 3: school counselor in suburban Chicago. We should also point out

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Speaker 3: depends on where you live as well. If you live

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Speaker 3: in a very safe suburb or way out in the country,

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Speaker 3: it's a little different than a kid like in the

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Speaker 3: middle of the city or something like that. But she

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Speaker 3: gave her kid a lot of free range starting in

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Speaker 3: the second grade and got some neighborhood parents involved in

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Speaker 3: letting their kids do it. And they said, before you

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Speaker 3: know it, they had this little, you know, little gang

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Speaker 3: of kids kind of touring around the neighborhood, are on

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Speaker 3: their own and she's getting all these texts from these

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Speaker 3: different parents saying like, what a big change has happened

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Speaker 3: in their own kid. One parent even said it was

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Speaker 3: life changing for her daughter, gave her a nuisance of confidence,

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Speaker 3: and that's sort of what the free range thing can

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Speaker 3: look like. But like you were saying, it all comes

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Speaker 3: down to assuaging appearance fear, the biggest fear, which is

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Speaker 3: my child will get abducted, or my child will get

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Speaker 3: there will be a sexual predator to target my child,

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Speaker 3: or heaven forbid, my child will get kidnapped and murdered.

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Speaker 1: Right, because you can understand and it's really tough to

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Speaker 1: fault somebody who doesn't want their kid wandering around by

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Speaker 1: themselves because they're afraid that something really bad is going

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Speaker 1: to happen to their kid. So kind of the first

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Speaker 1: step to adopting like a free range kid attitude is

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Speaker 1: to adjusting how you see the world. And they think

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Speaker 1: they think that with that, there are several things like

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Speaker 1: if you it's really fascinating to me. I love cultural changes,

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Speaker 1: especially when we can point to different things, seemingly unrelated

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Speaker 1: things that all kind of converge and has changed the

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Speaker 1: world in ways you never think of that seems to

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Speaker 1: have happened to produce today's helicopter parents, at least, to

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Speaker 1: produce the level of fear, the climate of fear that

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Speaker 1: the world is an inherently dangerous, brutal, sadistic place where

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Speaker 1: children have no call to be wandering around themselves. That

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Speaker 1: that is actually you can trace that back to a

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Speaker 1: convergence of things that have happened starting in like the

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Speaker 1: late seventies and early eighties, and in particular there was

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Speaker 1: some high profile child murder cases basically that all kind

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Speaker 1: of took place between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 1: and those really changed a lot of parents' minds about things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in New York, the very sad story of six

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Speaker 3: year old Eton Pats disappeared and was later found out

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Speaker 3: to have been murdered. John Wall very famously his son Adam.

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Speaker 3: He's the one that does all the TV shows now,

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Speaker 3: I think he's on the Hunt on CNN now and

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Speaker 3: really made this his life's work. But his son Adam

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Speaker 3: disappeared and died in nineteen eighty one. Obviously, the Atlanta

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Speaker 3: child murders from seventy nine to eighty one, and this

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Speaker 3: all converged around the same time, Like you were talking

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Speaker 3: about these strange things aligning cable news coming out. CNN

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Speaker 3: was launched in nineteen eighty, so all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: you have parents that are getting this kind of constant

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Speaker 3: flow of fear from the news about their children.

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Speaker 1: Right, Because so if a prior to cable news twenty

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Speaker 1: four hour news, if something happened to a kid somewhere

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Speaker 1: in some state, maybe if it were just particularly egregious

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Speaker 1: or outrageous or everything was kind of set up in

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Speaker 1: just the right way, it would capture the attent to

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Speaker 1: the national media and you would hear about it around

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Speaker 1: the country.

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Speaker 2: But that was really really rare.

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Speaker 1: And then second to that, the other place that you

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Speaker 1: would hear about child abduction's, child murders, horrific like accidents

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Speaker 1: that befell a child would be locally right like on

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Speaker 1: your local news that maybe maybe expanded to a region,

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Speaker 1: maybe the state, but it was pretty localized. And so

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Speaker 1: if statistically something like that happened fairly rarely, you weren't

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Speaker 1: going to hear about it very often, and so in

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Speaker 1: your mind it was a pretty rare thing, and you

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Speaker 1: weren't afraid of the world in general. But what a

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Speaker 1: lot of commentators and a lot of well some of

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Speaker 1: the people I ran across in research propose is that

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Speaker 1: with cable news, that potential pool of horrible things that

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Speaker 1: befell kids to talk about expanded to the entire nation,

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Speaker 1: not just local, not just a regional or even state,

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Speaker 1: but the whole nation. So now all the bad things

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Speaker 1: happening to all the kids around the nation was potential

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Speaker 1: news fodder. And so when you were watching CNN, it

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Speaker 1: seems like every other story was about a kid who

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Speaker 1: had been abducted and killed, or sexually assaulted, or any

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Speaker 1: number of horrible things. And there's really no way to

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Speaker 1: put it other than that that kind of stuff keeps

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Speaker 1: people glued to their televisions, and so it's really in

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Speaker 1: the best interests of news networks like CNN to feed

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Speaker 1: people that, because while you're glued to your television, you're

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Speaker 1: also glued to the ads that they show too. And

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Speaker 1: so from this model came a climate of fear that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people point to is like, this is

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Speaker 1: the source, and it's not just CNN. CNN gets pointed

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Speaker 1: to because it was the one that started it all.

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Speaker 1: That was Ted Turner, who came up with this and

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Speaker 1: started the first twenty four hour cable news network. But

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Speaker 1: all cable news is guilty of this, and became guilty

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Speaker 1: of it pretty quickly because that's the model of cable news,

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Speaker 1: and because cable news laid that foundation and showed like,

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Speaker 1: oh you got that kind of you can really.

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Speaker 2: Make some revenue.

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Speaker 1: Nightly News tried its best to resist that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: but it kind of had to follow suit a little

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Speaker 1: bit too, so it would become more sensational from the

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Speaker 1: eighties onward as well, not nearly anything like cable news,

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Speaker 1: but compared to how it had been before, it was

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Speaker 1: much more sensationalized because it was following that cable news model.

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Speaker 1: And all that put together created the foundation of why

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Speaker 1: people are just scared to death about the world because

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Speaker 1: we think that it's way more dangerous than it actually is,

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Speaker 1: because the statistics are inflated by hearing about this stuff

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's another couple of things that contributed that

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Speaker 3: Skinnesy has pointed out. One, we live in what she

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Speaker 3: dubs an expert society. So again on cable news or

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Speaker 3: on social media, like everywhere you turn, there's another expert

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Speaker 3: coming out with a new book they're trying to sell

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Speaker 3: basically telling you how you're doing it wrong as a parent,

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Speaker 3: how you should do it, and then the whole fact

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Speaker 3: that we live in a very litigious society. Now, so

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Speaker 3: what if I want a free range parent my kid

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Speaker 3: and they go down and get their friend out of

443
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: the house and they're riding bikes and one of them

444
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: gets hurt, Like, are their parents going to sue me

445
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 3: because my kid went and lured them into the mean streets?

446
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: Right?

447
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that was another thing that happened, Chuck. In

448
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: the seventies, the idea of negligence became really big, and

449
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: there's what's called like a torte revolution to where you

450
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: went from well you know your kid was your kid

451
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: didn't know the other kid's arm was gonna get broken,

452
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: so you can't get sued for that, to no, that

453
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: was negligent and we're going to allow that and more

454
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: and more case law expanded to to make people think

455
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: like lawyers because of it too.

456
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: When you were a kid, was I mean that must

457
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: have been a thing, because did you ever have the

458
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: lawsuit threat from another child?

459
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was such a.

460
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 4: Thing, Like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna kick your butt

461
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 4: or whatever.

462
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: You're like, Oh yeah, well, my dad's gonna sue you

463
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: for all the money you got.

464
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: That's right, he's a dentist.

465
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: It's so funny, man, to think back in the seventies,

466
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: these children threatening lawsuits.

467
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd forgotten about that, for like ripping their shirt

468
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: or something. Oh yeah, any number of things could could

469
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: generate a lot to you.

470
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

471
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: But in the end, Scanesy says, and this is I

472
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 3: think a pretty relevant quote. She said, all of this

473
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 3: stuff combined has convinced parents that they have to be

474
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 3: both omniscient and omnipotent because of fear, and monitor every

475
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: single move.

476
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 4: That your kid makes.

477
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 3: So let's take a break and we're going to come

478
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 3: back and talk a little bit about the the facts

479
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: about whether or not your kids are really in danger

480
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: out on the streets. Right after this, well, now we're

481
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: on the road, driving in your truck.

482
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 5: Want to learn a thing or two from Josh Pam Chuck.

483
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 2: It's stuff you should know.

484
00:25:52,160 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 5: Should all right, shoe stop, shine.

485
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: All right, Chuck.

486
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: So, like we were saying, to not be just scared

487
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: to death because you're letting your kids, say, walk home

488
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: from the park or something like that. Unsupervised, you you

489
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: have to go through a change of mindset, like you

490
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: have to stop seeing, Uh, the world is a very

491
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: very scary place, and sometimes statistics can be actually kind

492
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: of comforting. So the Free Range Kids movement has really,

493
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, made one of its foundational support polls, and

494
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: you think I would actually be getting better at this

495
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: all this time, but no, you.

496
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: Stumble through something like that.

497
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: Anyway, they talk a lot about statistics and crime statistics

498
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: related to kids in particular, and when you look at

499
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: them in the cold, hard light of the day, it

500
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's a very dangerous world after all.

501
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: Right, if you look at the numbers, the National Center

502
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 3: for Missing and Exploited Children says that just one percent

503
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: of the twenty seven thousand missing children cases are non

504
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 3: family abductions, and that also includes like friends and acquaintances.

505
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: So if you're talking about literally a stranger targeting your

506
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 3: child and plucking them off a playground, it is exceedingly

507
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: rare that that happens.

508
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so one percent is non family, right.

509
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 3: Right, But that also doesn't even break down like if

510
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: it's a friend or an acquaintance of a family or

511
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 3: something like that. So little strangers snatching your kid rarely, rarely,

512
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: rarely happens.

513
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

514
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: So even that, even including like friends of the family,

515
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: somebody who's not a direct family member but known to

516
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: the kid, a non stranger, that's two hundred and seventy

517
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: kids that that happened to in twenty seventeen out of

518
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven thousand, I think, which is that's awful

519
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: for those kids that they were kidnapped right there. That's

520
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: another thing too, is when you throw out statistics like this,

521
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: it's really easy to be like, see, that was it,

522
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: But you don't want to do that because to those

523
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy families, that's all that matters. And

524
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: that's really important to remember as well when we're kind

525
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: of tossing out these statistics too.

526
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not to make light of family abductions, which

527
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: is sure, you know ninety one percent of abductions, those

528
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: are horrific and traumatic as well. Yeah, we're just talking

529
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: about the bare bones of like the fear that if

530
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: I let my kid go to a park, is strangers

531
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: going to pluck them?

532
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: Right right?

533
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: So so even that even if you look at it's

534
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand out of all the kids in the

535
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: United States in twenty seventeen, twenty seven thousand of them

536
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: went missing in twenty seventeen, and the vast majority of

537
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: them ran away.

538
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: So if you're worried.

539
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: That your kid is going to get plucked by a stranger,

540
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: specifically out of a park somewhere, because you let them

541
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: go to the park with the free range parenting, people

542
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: are saying, if you look at the statistics, the chances

543
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: of that are so small that it's actually not worth

544
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: limiting your kid's freedom of movement because of that outlier possibility.

545
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: It just doesn't It's a disproportionate response to that risk,

546
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: is what they're saying.

547
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: Right, If you want to talk about the worst thing

548
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: that you can imagine, which is a child murder, from

549
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty to two thousand and eight, statistics about murders

550
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: of children under five years old, sixty three percent of

551
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: the time the parents are the ones who did it,

552
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: followed by twenty three percent, so that's eighty six percent total.

553
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 3: Twenty three percent are male acquaintances like you know, mom's

554
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 3: boyfriend or something like that, right, uh seven percent, or

555
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: other relatives. So only three percent of all murders of

556
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: young children are strangers, right, So again and again dressing

557
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: we're addressing the fear of strangers doing something to your child,

558
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: not making light of these other statistics.

559
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: And there are parents out there who are like, good,

560
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: that's enough. That's the fact that it happens to one

561
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: kid makes me want to protect my child and make

562
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: sure that they don't do that. Okay, you're the parent,

563
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: You're you're raising your kid in that way.

564
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: I understand.

565
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, But again, what the what the free range kids

566
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: people are saying is like, like, is it really worth that?

567
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: Like what what about that is?

568
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: Is?

569
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: I mean, is really worth that kind of a response?

570
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: And we'll get to we'll get to that, because you

571
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: could say, like, if there were no negative aspects of

572
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: completely ensconcing your kid and protection, then the free range

573
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: kids advocates didn't have anything. They could be like, Okay,

574
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: well whatever, that's what you're doing with your kid. But

575
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: there's suspicions that they that actually is detrimental to the

576
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: development of a kid, protecting them from everything at all costs.

577
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the big other foundational

578
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: platform post tenants of the free range kids thing.

579
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: That one was for showing off.

580
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: All right, So building on that, like you were saying, there,

581
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: there has to be like in order to get a

582
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: parent on board with a free range parenting lifestyle. It's

583
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: not just I want to be lazy or I want

584
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: to go back to my childhood. It's a parent who

585
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 3: thinks there are actual benefits to doing so right and

586
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: that that outweighs the risk, like you were saying, of

587
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: the three percent chance or the one percent or the

588
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: point five percent chance that something's going to happen to

589
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: my kid if they're on their own. There is evidence,

590
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: and it's growing and growing evidence that all these efforts

591
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: to schedule all these activities for your kid are overlooking

592
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 3: one big fundamental element of raising a healthy, well adjusted

593
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 3: child that seems to be getting lost more and more,

594
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: which is something called free play. The American Academy of

595
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: Pediatrics has to report out that said that free play

596
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: promotes social sorry, social.

597
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: I like it. That's the new way of saying.

598
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: Social, emotional, cognitive, language, and self regulation skills that build

599
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: executive function and a pro social brain. And play is

600
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: fundamentally important for learning twenty first century skills like problem solving, collaboration,

601
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: and creativity and executive functioning.

602
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: Skills that are critical for adult success.

603
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: Right, And they threw that last one in to be like, well, okay,

604
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: maybe plays good, but it's not going to help them

605
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: in life, and they're saying, yes, it will actually help

606
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: them in life, and that by keeping them from playing,

607
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: you're basically creating a little adult from the nursery. Which

608
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: is interesting to be Chuck, because prior to the nineteenth century,

609
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: when you were a kid, starting around age five or something,

610
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: you had a job, if it wasn't around like your

611
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: family's farm, maybe you were helping out with the wash

612
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: that your mom took in who knows, But then you like,

613
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: there was no such thing as childhood really, and then

614
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: we moved away from that and we developed childhood. And

615
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: now it seems like we're moving away from childhood now

616
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: and we're taking kids and they're not working on the farm.

617
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: We're making them little CEOs and marketing directors and brand

618
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: managers and stuff like that. But they're they're losing their

619
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: childhood in that bargain, as I think what they're saying

620
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: and from play specifically, play helps, but it helps also

621
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: like just in and of itself for its own sake,

622
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: but it also helps eventually down the road. It's an

623
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: investment that will pay off, I think in terms that

624
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: helicopter parents can understand.

625
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's another guy named Peter Gray. He's a developmental psychologist.

626
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: He has a book called Free to Learn and founded

627
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: a nonprofit I Believe with Yes Scannesey called let Grow.

628
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 4: A little play on words there.

629
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: Yes, and he basically says that, you know, if you

630
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: look back through human evolution, children.

631
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: Their education was through play with their peers.

632
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: And if you look at societies and cultures in the

633
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: world today that I mean, how would you classify these.

634
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: Cultures traditional societies.

635
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: I'm not sure maybe, but they say that that children

636
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 3: of these cultures that still play and explore freely, if

637
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 3: they're left to do that, they will do so into

638
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 3: their teen years. Like that is their natural instinct is

639
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: to be among their peers, free playing.

640
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: Right, and so, like, I think one of the problems

641
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: that helicopter parents have with the idea of play is

642
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: that like, it's a waste of time. The kid could

643
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: be learning like cello or you know, doing math flash cards,

644
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: or like creating a better foundation for a better future

645
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: for themselves, and that if they're not doing that, they're

646
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: falling behind. And so what Peter Gray and some of

647
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: his ilk are saying is like no.

648
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 2: No, no.

649
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: Play helps develop a child in ways that no other

650
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: thing you could possibly come up with their supervisor get

651
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: them to do can because this is what we've done

652
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: all this time, and this is how we've built society

653
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: is letting little kids play and figure things out on

654
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 1: their own. And he says that if there's a parent around,

655
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: if it's supervised, if there's a parent even within like

656
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: eyesight or earshotter, you know there's a parent watching, it's

657
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: going to be different. It has to be unsupervised, unstructured

658
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: play so that the kids can be left to make

659
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: up their own rules, can be taught by the group

660
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: that you know, actually, no, that's not really fair, or

661
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: it's not really cool to take the ball and go

662
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: home because you aren't winning. That's how you learn that stuff,

663
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: and those are good things to learn. That makes you

664
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: a more socially well adjusted kid. Then probably learning cello

665
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: is going to.

666
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 3: Well yeah, I mean you can try and teach your

667
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: kid by showing and by telling as much as you

668
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: can as a parent, and that is all valuable, but

669
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 3: nothing will teach a lesson to a kid, like learning

670
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: it through experience with their peers, right, Like I remember myself,

671
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: you know, when I was a kid, Like the biggest

672
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: lessons I learned were lessons that I learned among my

673
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: peer group, you know, like tough, hard lessons that a

674
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: lot of parents, I think try and even shield their

675
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 3: kid from because it's tough stuff sometimes. But and you know,

676
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: you don't want your kid to suffer traumas and things

677
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: like that. But and not to sound like a parent

678
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: from the nineteen fifties, but that stuff does help build

679
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: your child's character. And I mean, I guess that sounds

680
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 3: old school. What it does is it helps them learn

681
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: how to regulate their emotions and how to fit in

682
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: with their peer group, which is in turn going to

683
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: be eventually just society at large.

684
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: Right.

685
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that that sounds kind of fifties,

686
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: because this whole idea of like free range kids is

687
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: kind of based on that philosophy of doctor Spock, who

688
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: was like one of the first experts, one of the

689
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: first child experts that America ever really paid attention to.

690
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: And he wrote a book in nineteen forty six called

691
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: The Common Sense Book of Baby and Child, And he

692
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: basically is saying all the stuff that free range kid's

693
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: parents say is like, let your kid play, let your

694
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: kid like learn through their own their own way of

695
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: like exploring the world, like, let them take risks, let

696
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: them be themselves. Trust your in stinks as a parent.

697
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: And so that's what Frewen's parents seem to be kind

698
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: of getting back to, is like the doctor Spock school

699
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: of thought. Benjamin Spock, not the other.

700
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 4: Spock, not live long and Prosperouspock.

701
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: Did he have a first name?

702
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 4: Oh? I don't know, man, I didn't watch a Star Trek.

703
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: I didn't either.

704
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: Just lay it on a million people who are going

705
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: to send the email.

706
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: We're waiting.

707
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 3: There's something called the internal external Locus of Control scale.

708
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: It's an odd name, but this has been around since

709
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties. It's a psychological indicator scale. And these days,

710
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: since the nineteen sixties, there's been a big shift in

711
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: the scale and how teens report themselves and their internal control.

712
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: And today teens report very little internal control over their

713
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: own lives. And Gray believes and I think he's really

714
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: onto something here that these high levels of anxiety and

715
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: depression among kids these days has a lot to do

716
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: with that, and nethings is directly related to the decline

717
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: and free play over the last you know, forty or

718
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: fifty years, right.

719
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: Which I want to say, like, this is like one

720
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: psychologist's opinion. It makes a lot of sense to me,

721
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it does to a lot of people.

722
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: But there's you know, this is not necessarily like like

723
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: gospel truth or set in Stone. It's the jury is

724
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: still kind of out, but there's a lot of evidence

725
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: out there that does seem like overprotecting your kid can

726
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: stunt them emotionally or developmentally, and then letting them go

727
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: be themselves and learn things on their own and learn

728
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: that they can pick themselves back up and still survive

729
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: and failure is not the worst thing in the world,

730
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: can actually help them develop. This is It's just like

731
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: we routinely shoot holes in social psychology stuff all the time,

732
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: and we do it gleefully. So I don't want to

733
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: like go the opposite way and just be like, but

734
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: this one's right because we agree with it. Yeah, that's

735
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: not necessarily the case, and I'm sure a lot of

736
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: people disagree with it, But I tend to kind of

737
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: favor that mentality, probably because that's how I was raised.

738
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I said, it does sound like I'm

739
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 3: from the nineteen fifties say that failure breeds character, but

740
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: you know, it really does, is sort of a simplistic

741
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: way to say it. But when you fail, you hopefully

742
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: learn something and build on that, and that does build character.

743
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: Right.

744
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: So one of the really.

745
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: One of the things they call that is the dignity

746
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 1: of risk, where you are showing your kid, I'm I'm

747
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: letting you go figure this out on your own. And

748
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: another big misunderstanding with free range parents is that that

749
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: you just go from like zero to walking, you know,

750
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: taking the subway in New York, at the flip of

751
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: a switch. That's not how it works. You slowly build

752
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: your kid up for this, you know, the big thing

753
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: that you write an article about. But there's you know,

754
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: dozens or scores or possibly hundreds of little little interactions

755
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: that you're having to kind of make sure that your

756
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: kid is up for this when they're finally when you

757
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: decide they're finally ready to And it's not just like

758
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: flipping a switch. It's very kind of thoughtful and protracted

759
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 1: and planned, but not necessarily shared with the kid. That's

760
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: planned paying out of trust so that the kid can

761
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: show you, Yeah, I'm ready for this, I know what

762
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: to do. I'm not just going to like ball up

763
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: on this on the ground in the subway and start

764
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: crying until someone calls nine on one and the cops

765
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: come get me.

766
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 4: Well.

767
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm sure when she sent her kid on

768
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 3: the subway home that very first time, it wasn't just

769
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 3: like all right, here's the stuff, see you later. I'm

770
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 3: sure there was a very serious talk like all right, dude,

771
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 3: I trust you. I'm letting you do this. I know

772
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: you know the way. We're going to give this a shot.

773
00:41:58,560 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 3: If I see you on the news in the middle

774
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 3: of Times Square like you're going to be in big trouble.

775
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure there was a lot of thought and talk

776
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: that went into that.

777
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 4: And you know what.

778
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Yeah, totally.

779
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 4: And kids get that stuff. You know, for sure.

780
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 3: Kids are smarter than people give them credit for a

781
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 3: lot of times. I think it's interesting when it comes

782
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 3: to the law because it's such a new thing in Utah.

783
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,479
Speaker 3: Last year in twenty eighteen, it became the first state

784
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: to pass what was called a free range parenting law

785
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: where it basically was just sort of redefining what child

786
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: neglect was. And in Utah, I thought it was going

787
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: to go the other way when I was reading this,

788
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: but it actually went the way of sort of encouraging

789
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: or being behind free range parenting. The new definition a

790
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 3: parent cannot be accused of neglect just because their kid

791
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 3: is going to a store by themselves that's down the street,

792
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,959
Speaker 3: or playing outside alone, or biking to school on their own,

793
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 3: or at home without a parent there if they're a minor,

794
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: which is pretty interesting.

795
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought so too, but most free range parents

796
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: are like, well, we don't want to live in Utah.

797
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: So hopefully our states will all come up with similar

798
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 1: laws that decriminalize free range parenting because in a lot

799
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: of states, things like latch key kids are illegal, like

800
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: you can have your kid taken from you if they

801
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: are a latch key kid under a certain age. I

802
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: think in Washington you have to be fourteen to be

803
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: left at home alone, like you could.

804
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: Lose your kid.

805
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: And so there's a real problem with trying free range

806
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: parenting because part of this helicopter parenting society is also

807
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: helicopter villaging. But rather than picking up the phone and

808
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: calling the parents whose kids you see wandering alone down

809
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: the street like you used to.

810
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: Would have done.

811
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: Now people just pick up the phone and call the cops,

812
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: and then the cops respond and they take the kid

813
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: to child protective services and the parent has to go

814
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: down and explain that they will never do this again

815
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: and they're very very sorry, or else child protective services

816
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: will take their kid from them because most states rule

817
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: on what's called the best interests of the child, which

818
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: is totally subjective, is completely not based in any actual

819
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: case law. Necessarily, it's just does the child protective services

820
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: person think that that the kid is smart enough to

821
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: walk from the playground to the house. No, okay, well

822
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: we're taking your kid, maybe permanently. And so it's really

823
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: risky to raise your kid this way because people will

824
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: call the cops if they see your kid walking down

825
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: the street and real trouble. Your parent ship of your

826
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,479
Speaker 1: kid is in jeopardy at that moment, which has got

827
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: to be one of the worst things that could possibly

828
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: happen to a parent.

829
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is where kind of we get back

830
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 3: to the place of like this is a privilege, has

831
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 3: a lot to do with this because when it comes

832
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: to the law and children and child protective services, you

833
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 3: are way more likely to get a visit from child

834
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: protective services if you are poor, or if you're a

835
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: person of color or minority, like they may write an

836
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 3: article about you in the local magazine praising you if

837
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: you're like a white suburban parent of middle or upper

838
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: middle class for letting your kid free range around. But

839
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: in the case of like Deborah Harrel in twenty fourteen

840
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: in South Carolina, she wasn't like, oh, I want to

841
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: be a free range parent. She's like, I am a

842
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: working mom, and I work at McDonald's and I'm finishing

843
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: a shift and my nine year old daughter is playing

844
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: in a park nearby until I'm done. And they sent

845
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 3: her to jail for a night and took her daughter

846
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: for two weeks away from her.

847
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 2: Yees seventeen days.

848
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it is very much a case of privilege

849
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: to even be allowed to do this without getting a

850
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: visit from child protective services.

851
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: Right, So Scanazy and some of the other free range

852
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: parents say, right, this is why we need laws that

853
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: are much more common sense and decriminalize this kind of

854
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: behavior and put the trust back in parents to know

855
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: that their kids are smart enough, or if they think

856
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: their kids aren't smart enough to be trusted with that

857
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, they wouldn't let them do that. They

858
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: argue that this would benefit everybody, whether no matter you know,

859
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: whether you're a minority or whatever socioeconomic status you have,

860
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: which is which is true, that's a pretty it's a

861
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: pretty sensible it's sensible. But I think that that kind

862
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: of underscores a larger problem, which is, you know, like

863
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: some people don't have the choice to to get childcare.

864
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: If the school suddenly cancels class, like you just.

865
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 2: Can't afford it, what are you going to do?

866
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: And then your your work says, well, you can't bring

867
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: them here, this is work.

868
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: You know what, what can you do?

869
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: Hopefully you've raised your kid to a point where you

870
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: can trust them to go play, you know, next door

871
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: at the playground or something like that. But that doesn't

872
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: mean that you're not going to end up in trouble

873
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: with with the So it's a sticky, sticky situation that

874
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: we're in.

875
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 3: Two it is, and you know, again, it depends on

876
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: your kid, It depends on where you live. Like in

877
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 3: my brother's neighborhood, if I live there. I would let

878
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 3: my kid go out and do what she wanted when

879
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: she was like seven. It's just so safe, and kids

880
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: are everywhere on their own doing stuff, very much like

881
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 3: it was when we were kids.

882
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 4: At my house, I.

883
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: Live next to a super scary busy street. Like I

884
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 3: would never let her out of the front of my house.

885
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 3: But even at three and a half, we let her

886
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: go in the backyard by herself and do stuff all

887
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: the time, right, I mean, just this past weekend, she

888
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 3: was out in the backyard and with the dogs, and

889
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 3: I went out. About half an hour later, she was

890
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 3: walking through the garden with a watering can, singing we

891
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 3: will rock you. And I was like, all right, everything's fine.

892
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: But again, she's in my enclosed backyard. I wasn't sweating it.

893
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: I would.

894
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: I would never just open the front door and be like,

895
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: go have fun. Memorial drives right there, cars are going

896
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: sixty miles an hour.

897
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 2: But that's the point.

898
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: It's all context, you know, Like you would have had

899
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: to have worked up to that point. She would have

900
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: had to have shown you that she was able to

901
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: be trusted with that busy street. And maybe she'd be

902
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: sixteen before you would. But that's that's the point. It's

903
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: all it's context, you know.

904
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know again, just do the best you can.

905
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:31,479
Speaker 4: It's hard.

906
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 3: There are a thousand ways to do it, and everybody

907
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 3: thinks their way is the right way.

908
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: That's right.

909
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: Also, just before we sign off, I want to say

910
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to pick on kids who take cello lessons.

911
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: Cello is, by the way, my favorite stringed instrument, which

912
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: means it was the one that was easiest called to mind.

913
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: That's why I kept bringing up the cello. So all

914
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: of you out there learning cello, hats off to you

915
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: because that's my favorite string instrument.

916
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 4: Yeah what if? What if yo Ma had just been

917
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: free playing?

918
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: Right?

919
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: But I'll bet Yoyoma did free play. I'll bet he

920
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: did both. And if he didn't, I'll bet he regrets it.

921
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about free range kids,

922
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: we'll just go on the internet and start reading because

923
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot about it. And since I said that, Oh, also,

924
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: there's a pretty good article on how stuff work you

925
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: can read too. Since I said that, it's time for

926
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: listener mail.

927
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: All right, I'm gonna call this desert flooding. Hey, guys,

928
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 3: listen to the podcast. This morning on Desert Survival. And

929
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 3: I live here in Phoenix, Arizona and have for nineteen years.

930
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 3: And the flash flood issue is real even in Metro Phoenix.

931
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 3: They have a stupid motorist law here and that's capitalized

932
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: and end quotes. She said, and she said after and

933
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 3: during her heavy rains, a lot of washes fill with

934
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 3: running water. A lot of the washes have been paved.

935
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: Barriers will be put up when they flood, even if

936
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 3: the water is only a few inches deep. But there

937
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 3: is always someone who decides that their suv or truck

938
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 3: is hepty enough to get through, and their rescue is

939
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: always on the nightly news man because they have to

940
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: pay for it. They actually have to pay for the

941
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: cost of their rescue. Sometimes these dare devils don't fare

942
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: too well. Actually, lives have been lost and less than

943
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 3: a foot of moving water in a watch.

944
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that I've heard six inches.

945
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Teresa Henberry closes by saying this, I do

946
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 3: so enjoy your podcast.

947
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: Nice, Thank you, Teresa. We do so enjoy your emails too.

948
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 4: Yes, I like the way she put that.

949
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to be like Teresa and impress

950
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: us with your verbal or written dexterity.

951
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: We love that kind of stuff.

952
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: You can go to stuff youshould Know dot com and

953
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: you can look us up on the social links. You

954
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: can also send us a podcast like Teresa did to

955
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: stuff podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

956
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

957
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 4: For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

958
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.