1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Money Making Conversations. It's the show that she 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: has the secrets of success experience firsthand by marketing and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I will know he's giving me 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: advice to many occasions. In occasion didn't notice, I'm not broke. 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: You know. He'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs and industry 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: decision makers. It's what he likes to do, it's what 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: he likes to share. Now it's time to hear from 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: my man, Rashan McDonald money making Conversations. Here we come. 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: Welcome to money Making Conversations. I am your host, Roshan McDonald. 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: Let's be real, it's time everybody needs to stop reading 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: other people's success stories and start writing your own. I 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: say that all the time on this show, and I 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: always tell you to leave with their gifts, your passion, 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: the things you believe in, and while you leading, don't 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: let your age, friends, family and coworkers stop you from 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: planning or living your dreams. My interviews that I bring 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: on Money Making Conversations, I include celebrities, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: what I like to call industry decision makers. My next 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: two cares they've fallen that celebritative. Definitely entrepreneurs, but they're 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: also decision makers because they changed our views. My next years. 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Erica Alexander and Whitney Dow, They've teamed up for a 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: new podcast that explores the full picture of reparations with 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: arguments both for and against restitution for Black American descendants 24 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: of enslaved people. That's that's the stage for our conversation 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: that's been discussed reparations. Eric Alexander has beloved for iconic 26 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: acting roses, living single get out series like Black Lightning, 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: She Wears Me the Hats. Now known as an actress 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: but the trail blazing activist, entrepreneur, creator, producer, and director. Basically, 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: she's an all around boss. Okay, Whitney Dow, He's in 30 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: the winning filmmaker and educator. He's been producing and directing 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: films focused on race and identity for almost two decades 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: and as partner of a Two Tone Productions. Directing credits 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: include one, I'm very Familiar with Two Towns of Jasper, 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: I sit where I want the legacy of Brown versus 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: Board of Education, Unfinished Country, and when the Drama is beating. 36 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: His producer credits include freedom, some banished, how white you 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: drove blacks out of town in America? Please welcome. I've 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: set the tone. He's the general. Please work in the 39 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: money making conversation to host the reparations the big payback Erica, 40 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: Alexander and Whitney down. Thank you. That's that's We're glad 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: to be here, and congratulations on everything you're doing in 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: all the success and also highlighting our work and others 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: like us. We appreciate it. Well. First of all, thank 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: you for coming on the show. And I wanted such 45 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: as tone of who we're talking about because in the 46 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: past and Whitney's on his own video as well as 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: audio as well because the show plays back on television 48 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: as well as own podcasts, and the reason I wanted 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: to bring you on the show because I'm about Whitney's 50 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: age and through life. I've heard this reparation tone being 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: thrown out there, and usually it's some person who looks 52 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: kind of dishoveled on the street in New York City 53 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: holding a cardboard sign is crooked, but somehow he's fouled 54 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: the marker and he says, you owe me, and he's misspelled. 55 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Reparations Now I'm looking at Hilige, gifted actress, a highly 56 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: talented producer and creator, and Whitney and Okay, this is 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: not what I grew up on. This is not my 58 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 1: mom's TV. Okay, you know that is so funny. Yeah, 59 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: you know what I was going to say, Whitney, that 60 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: we were going to go out to talk to people, 61 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna say, we'll put the reparations on 62 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: the cardboard and they'll come to us. You're exactly right. 63 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: That is something that's been in it's sort of a 64 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: marginalized community. And Whitney can speak to that very well 65 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: because he's been working inside of race and talking about 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: these things for a while. Go ahead, you know, it's 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: it's really incredible. I think we're you know, Erica, we're 68 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: talking about this earlier today, about this moment that we're 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: in that where, you know, the last year, we're listening 70 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: to the major the major presidential camp candidates talking about 71 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: reparations on the debate stage without fear, but actually because 72 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: they knew it was something that Americans wanted to hear about. 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing up my age, Sean to appreciate that. 74 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: You know that Erica is the little younger than we are. 75 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Know know a lot you can tell just by looking 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: at between so the But but to think about when 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: I was coming up on, when you were coming up, Um, 78 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: this wasn't even remotely a conversation that we thought could 79 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: be have. And now we're in this moment when it 80 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: feels Look, I don't have a crystal ball, I don't 81 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: open possible, but it feels real. HR forty feels like 82 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: it has the possibility of finally passing and there can 83 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: be an actual discussion about reparations in this country. Reparations 84 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: What does that mean? When from a black perspective might 85 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: ask both of your questions. I'm gonna ask you first, Erica, 86 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: from a black perspective, what does reparations mean? Because it 87 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: seems because there's a lot of people could stand in 88 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: Lafe for that, starting with the American Indians, also more 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: recently the Japanese during the World War Two when they 90 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: were putting in and camps or the fear that they 91 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: will cause some type of injury or inside spies in America. So, 92 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: but the Blacks were enslaver, they were brought over here 93 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: against their will. And so now we're only talking about 94 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, descendants of enslaved people. So now you're not 95 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: including all black people. So how did that decision come about? Nothing? 96 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Blue out? Why why am I not getting my check? Now? 97 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just saying, well, you know, reparations is 98 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: actually we have risk of He actually read um, uh 99 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: the definition of reparations on the episode two. Compensation. That's 100 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: what it is for war damages paid by a defeated state. 101 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: That's a very sort of that's what it is in 102 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: the dictionary. Um. But if you've made something wrong, you're 103 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: making amends for that wrong. And that's what reparations is. 104 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Pay money are some sort of something that helps those 105 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: that you have wrong. That's reparations. Why aren't you getting them? Um? 106 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: It's because Black people weren't in a position to advocate 107 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: for themselves after slavery. There was a brief period during 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: reconstruction where they disgusted and everybody knows about forty eight 109 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: years of the Mule and about you know, uh Sherman's 110 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: bill that they asked him to put forward. Um. But 111 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: then what happened is that racism settled back in Jim Crow. 112 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: All these things happened, Reconstruction stopped, and that's why you 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: didn't get it. And then by the time the civil 114 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: rights at Civil Rights UM period comes up, people are 115 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: starting to talk about um, uh, the rights that we 116 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: have or don't have. Then uh, it wasn't the time 117 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: maybe to bring that up when you're trying to just survive. 118 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: But people did bring it up during the Civil Rights 119 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: UM period, and they brought it up all during it. 120 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about the types of people Calli House 121 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: and others. Um Whitney loves that story of Cali House 122 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: and Queen Mother more people like that who kept trying 123 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: to get reparations, pensions, in other ways to um to 124 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: help blacks, but we didn't have any power. More importantly, 125 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: the people in power did not care and or want 126 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: to do it because they saw as us still as 127 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: being subhuman and we'd have to just make out on 128 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: our own. So now that we have power, we're trying 129 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: to say, don't ask why we didn't get it. Thin 130 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: asked why. Now that we have power, how can we 131 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: get it to help the descendants of American slaves? Now, okay, cool, 132 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: Now that's always coming from you, and that's to be expected. 133 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: You're a woman of color, a person of color. You 134 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: you were that angry generation. You You've you've been disenfranchised, 135 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like you said, but now 136 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: now I witn't Okay, you're white guy right now? Well 137 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: what what what's your problem? What's what's your what's your problem? 138 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: We're talking with this black young lady over here. Boy reparations. Okay, 139 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: you really hurt? Not calls? Sir? Okay, can you be quiet. 140 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: I know you've made a lot of movies that have 141 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: really been equal when alleans for injustice, uh and keeping 142 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: it writing parallel to the course of righteousness or black 143 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: and brown people. But why are you Whitney getting involved 144 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: with Erica? Well, you know it's funny, you know that 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: with all the work that I've done, and I've never 146 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: had a couple of sort of moments in those lives 147 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: where I always kind of felt, I think, like a 148 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: lot of white people, I think that you know, race 149 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: and racism or the structures of the racist structures of 150 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: our country. I was kind of like thought of thought 151 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: of outside myself, something that someone who I believed that 152 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to. I believe in social justice, I believe 153 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: in equality. I had to work on these things. And 154 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: the moment the big switch for me, as you know, 155 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: that's all embedded in me, and I need to be 156 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: working for all the roads that I was following down 157 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: led back to myself is that I needed to take action. 158 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: I needed to recognize my part in the paradigm and 159 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: say I could shift it so that I really believe 160 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: that this is gonna sound weird in the context of 161 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: this show, but but white people are suffering from the 162 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: fact that this injury has never been repaired. And I 163 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: really feel that we cannot be full citizens of this 164 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: country and in some ways even fully moral humans until 165 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: we make restitution if we try and repair the damage 166 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: of slavery. And I think that part of that is 167 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: not even whether we can do it effectively, but we 168 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: have to make the attempt. We have we have to 169 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: make the attempt. And you know what we're talking about 170 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: earlier about what it is, and one of the things 171 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: that's you know, I I often joke with Erica about that, 172 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm what I'm relieved about is that, you know, when 173 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: you talked earlier about who gets it and who doesn't 174 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: get it, being a white person, I know I don't 175 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: have standing to make that decision. The weigh in with 176 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: an opinion on that. I have the easy job. I 177 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: just have to advocate for it. Now you guys have 178 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: to figure out how it gets done and gets absolutely 179 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: I agree, you know, I look at this. I remember 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: when Steve Harvard and I was doing Lab radio in 181 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Son point three to beat and every time 182 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: this guy will come back, and he had this little 183 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: book and it was a dirty book. So he was 184 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: with pictures that the pages were bent, and he would 185 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: he will make his claim to me because he wanted 186 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: to get on the morning show. He always you gotta 187 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: let me speak to that. I gotta tell the truth. 188 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: I gotta let people know and every every access, Sir, 189 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: I can't work facts. What are you backing this up on? 190 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: What facts are you basing your claim for reparation? Because 191 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: he definitely did not look like you, Erica, And he 192 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: definitely did not look like you quit me, okay? Nor 193 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: did he have the credits or the background will allow 194 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: me to actually at least you gotta can talk because 195 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: you have one one up. You have the credits, allowed 196 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: to have a real legitimate voice. So I want to 197 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: hear your side of the story, which is a blessing 198 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: because if you don't have that, then you can shoot 199 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: to the side like I did him All those years 200 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: he kept coming to me trying to get on the 201 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: Steve Harvey Morning Show. Now you're on my show, money 202 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: Making Conversation popular platform. Now? Is that being a blessing 203 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: for you, Erica? To be able to come on shows, 204 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: to do national articles, to have a podcast, to finally 205 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: get this story out. It has been a blessing. It's 206 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: also a burden anybody that's in this type of work. 207 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: You get exhausted by it. Talking about these issues is 208 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: difficult because it brings up all sorts of conversations in 209 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: your life or you know, challenges or disappointments you might 210 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: have had and sort of thinking why. But it is 211 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: a blessing because it's part of what I gets. Somebody 212 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: passed me beaton a long time ago, people like Harriet Tubman. 213 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: If she can go through those swamps and go back 214 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth, I can do this, 215 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: I can do a podcast, I can do whatever I 216 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: need to do in order to help people move forward. 217 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: And and so it's it's it's um. It is a blessing. 218 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: It's also blessing to be on the show like yours, 219 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: to be discussing this because that means that it is UM, 220 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: not only the zeitgeist, but it's it's happening among people 221 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: who can help make the difference and bring it forward 222 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: and then push it beyond UM any one platform. And 223 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: that's important because people have been trying to have this 224 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: conversation for a long time. We're not the first, we 225 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: won't be the last. You have Frederick Douglas, you have 226 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: two boys Garby, all these people again, James Foreman, we 227 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: actually talk about him on our show and how he 228 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: interrupted these church service at Riverside and he demanded five 229 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in reparations because he said that the 230 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: UM the churches were complicit in slavery and oppression and 231 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: he wanted to hold them accountable. And UM, you have 232 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: groups like in Cobra and John Kanyers in Congress and 233 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: what he's doing there. And of course Sheila Jacksonline now 234 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: with HR forty and all the women, Robin Ruth Simmons, 235 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: we cannot forget her, and we'll talk more about her. 236 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: What she's done in Evanston, Illinois by passing the first 237 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: reparations bill in history. We are following her with a 238 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: documentary that we are both making Whitney and I and Um. 239 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: That's why we're having it. The fact that we're here 240 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: is proof of life. It's finally here, the season of celebration, 241 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: and no matter how you celebrate with family and friends, 242 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: whether you're preparing for reys magos or Karamu lighting the Manura, 243 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: are going to midnight mass poles has just you need 244 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: to make those traditions special. Plus you'll find gifts for 245 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: all your loved ones. Send warm wishes with cozy fleeces, sweaters, loungeware, 246 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: blankets and throws. Support minority owned or founded brands by 247 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: giving gifts from Human Nation and shame moisture, or treat 248 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: them to everyone's favorite activewear from top brands like Nike, Adidas, 249 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: and under Armor. 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They see the wrinkled 258 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. 259 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path 260 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: that could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. 261 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and 262 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: start exploring and discover the forest dot org brought to 263 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: you by the United States Force Service and the AD Council. 264 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: Look to your children's eyes to see the true magic 265 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You 266 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face 267 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They 268 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that 269 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. 270 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and 271 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: start exploring and discovered the forest dot org brought to 272 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: you by the United States Force Service and the AD Council. 273 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: You know it isn't when this questions directed to you 274 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: because you hear to work council culture and they work 275 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: council culture. You know, kind of started with the removal 276 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: of the Confederate statues, and and I I attested my 277 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: miners and sociology by degree, it's in mathematics. And when 278 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: I took sociology really allowed me to understand what I 279 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: didn't know about my black history. I didn't really know 280 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: the values that I brought to the table. Because if 281 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: you go to a typical UH public school or even 282 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: private school, this is what happens to black people. This 283 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: is a black history that's told to us. We came 284 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: over to America, we were enslaved, we were freed. Okay. 285 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: Then suddenly it skips all the way to brown versus 286 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: the Board of Education. Then it goes to the civil 287 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: right marches, then it goes to I have a dream speech, 288 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: then it goes to goes to UH to mar Luther 289 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: King's asassination, and it kind of stops. This is those 290 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: are accomplishments that you kind of read in history. And 291 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: so when you say council culture, Blacks have always had 292 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: a council culture when it comes to being educated and 293 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: the education being fair to the masses. And so when 294 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: I get not angry, I just get annoyed that you 295 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: used the people use the word council culture and Unfortunately, 296 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: it's coming from a majority of the white community that 297 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: that we're council culture. Can you expound on that, because 298 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: I think that's what makes a perfect parent for you 299 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: guys on this podcast, because I can have this diverse 300 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: conversation with both of you guys. Well, I think that 301 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, I think that white people also 302 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: have a cancel culture in the history as well, because 303 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: it's different. We've canceled out all we we worked really 304 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: hard to cancel that all the bad things, the things 305 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: that that don't line up with have this sort of 306 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: this idea of American exceptionalism and how we sort of 307 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: see always sort of been told told ourselves as white 308 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: people that were sort of this you know, white Americans 309 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: are you know, we're inherently good people that this thing. 310 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: And I think that the parts that were left out 311 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: of are the you know, the idea of of this 312 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: idea of bootstrap against sort of the loan cowboy against 313 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: the you know, riding out on the range with the 314 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: lone cowboys. Now that stupid. A piece of the stories 315 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: left out is that before him rode an army that 316 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: slaughtered the native of the American So we could act 317 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: out that independent act on his on his own. So 318 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: I think that we're that the idea is like, I 319 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: think you're exactly right there. What we're trying to do 320 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: is take those pieces that are missing them, add them 321 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: the story. And I just want to get back to 322 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: something you said about Eric and been doing together. I 323 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: think so much of the time these stories are told separately, 324 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: the stories of Black America. There's Black History Month or 325 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: there's this words and you know, I hate Black History Month. 326 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: It should be History Month because your story and my 327 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: story are the same story. They're they're inherently intertwined. By 328 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: taking them apart and trying to say they're different, we 329 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: you you inherently diminished them. And to understand either one, 330 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: you have to understand them both as how they're rolling together. 331 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: You know, when I when I listened to your talk, 332 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: and I'm from Houston, Texas, born in native of Texas, Okay, 333 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: and the project that you were involved and called Two 334 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Towns of Jasper, and it is very emotional for me 335 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: because it involves the black man being brutalized, murdered and 336 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: humiliated by the way he was killed, being drugged behind 337 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: the truck. You was involved in that and they had 338 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: a major impact in your life and probably led you 339 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: down the path that you're going in right now. Talk 340 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: about coming into that project and well, it was important 341 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: to do a project like that. They had nothing to 342 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: do with you, nothing to do with you, wasn't a 343 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: relative of yours, but you felt a need to do 344 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: a project. It was called two Towns of Jasper. Well 345 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: that so I said, that was a major stepping off point. 346 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: And you know, look at this, this is called money 347 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: making conversations. And I'm making confession on here when I 348 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: went down to do that, So I was I wanted 349 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: to make a film. And I literally saw the press 350 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: conference with Billy Rowells, the sheriff of Jasper Tectas, and 351 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: he had that big ten gallon hat and he had 352 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: like a car, two tone car hard Jack at the 353 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: highway still like wranglers. I was like, that guy is 354 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: a movie star. I want to go down there. So 355 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: I go down there, and it was and the other things. 356 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: So he said that that, oh yeah, we're having we're 357 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: having uh, we're having there's a big clan rally here 358 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: in support of the white community. I was like got 359 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: into my head. I was like, wait a minute, this 360 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: black man was just dragged to death in Texas and 361 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: the clans coming to rally and support of white community. 362 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: So I flew down there and the New Black Panther 363 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: Party was all for They're having these counter demonstrations, and um, 364 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: what happened is that I had actually gone down there 365 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: because I thought, oh, if I want to make you 366 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: want to make any advertising, I need to uh make 367 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: a movie. That was given. I take it in. But 368 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: what happened, and I think we we're talking a little 369 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: bit this about this before the show started. I went down. 370 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: I drove down tough Peak Road where they dragged James 371 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: word body. They changed into a truck, three white men 372 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: and we're driving down and they had saved spray painted 373 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: circles where they had found all his different body parts 374 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: on it. And we're driving and it went on and 375 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: it went on, and it went on, and it went 376 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: on for a mile. After mile three miles, we get 377 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: to the small black church. At the end, you could 378 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: see the imprint of his body where they laid because 379 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: he he had been so he had been so you know, 380 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: braided by the road. And that moment, that space like 381 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: shook me so profoundly to my core. I really just 382 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: it was like one of those moments where my my, 383 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: my world just opened up and I and I just 384 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: felt at that moment, if I can make something that 385 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: slightly communicates what I'm feeling here and the horror that 386 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: I'm feeling and also the recognition I'm feeling of being 387 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: in a white American standing in that spot, I will 388 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: have created something with value. And that was the beginning 389 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: of the journey. Eric American your projects and absolutely, you 390 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: know when you walk in the room, you know somebody's 391 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: gonna let you know that. That's the beauty of being 392 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 1: a person of color. You know, we can't run from 393 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, we we can't run from our skin tone. 394 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: We walk in the room. I don't care if we 395 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: have several degrees. I don't give a billionaires as a 396 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: black rich person. That's a smart black person that just 397 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: walked in the room. Now you're doing a podcast by Reparations. Now, 398 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: how did this I'm together that you united and felt 399 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: that Barce could be better served by partner with with me. 400 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: How did you guys come together? Um, we came together 401 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: because joy Read introduced us. Actually, joy Read knew that 402 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: we were both interested in doing something with the reparations, 403 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: UH you know something project and UM. He of course 404 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: has his uh life and his credits and all the 405 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: work that he's done. And I had just recently UM 406 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: produced UM with Color Farm Media my partner Ben are 407 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: Non that John Lewis could trouble documentary and UM, she said, 408 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: you guys should get together, and that's how it happened. 409 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: We got together in the calfway, we started cafe. We 410 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: started talking about um our work. He's sort of explained 411 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: to me some of his hesitation or the things that 412 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: he would be UM most concerned about going forward. I 413 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: didn't have those concerns because I've been working and collaborating 414 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: with so many different people my entire life that I've 415 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: had to be flexible and sort of you know, be 416 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: a chameleon, those types of things. But I totally got 417 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: He wanted to make sure that we would be a 418 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: good fit, and I did too. I didn't want this 419 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: to fail because we we felt to meet in what 420 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: our goals were, and we were aligned. We have similar 421 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: missions in life. We have um really interesting sense of humor, 422 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: and we could laugh things off and move forward, but 423 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: we also were very serious about the work. So that's 424 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: how what happened. We decided to do it, and we 425 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: got going on it. Then the pandemic hit and UM, 426 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: by that time we had been asked whether we wanted 427 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: to do a podcast about it, and um, and those 428 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: things sort of halted. And I had already gone on 429 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club to talk about the Reparations documentary, and 430 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: Charlemagne the God asked me, yo, queen. He gave me 431 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: a call, what's going on with that? Are you doing 432 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: a podcast? Because he had just gotten a deal to 433 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: do his podcast network, The Black Effect, and I said, well, 434 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: you know it's available, you're interested? And he goes yes, 435 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: And next thing you know, here we are. Because of 436 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: his resources and the power that he had in that space. UM, 437 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: we were making this podcast and we called it the 438 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: Big Payback. This is a great story. Now within that story, 439 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: she said, there was some reservations. What were your reservations 440 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: with you? You know, I'm a good listen to that. 441 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: I'll so, you know, Joy called and said, yo, you 442 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: gotta meet Eric and her and her partner Ben, And 443 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: I said, okay, And you know, look, I'll just be 444 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: really honest here in the show. I'll say, look, you know, 445 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: some movie star actors some beautiful movie star actors. I need. 446 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 1: I need that in my life. I said, you know, 447 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: I said so when she came down, and I said, Erica, 448 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it's gonna work. You know, 449 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: you're this big star. I'm just the filmmaker of the thing. 450 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: And I said, don't you know, I don't know if 451 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: this is gonna be a good fit. She just looked 452 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: at me and she said with me, you think that 453 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: I survived in Hollywood for thirty years out knowing how 454 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: to handle white guys like you. And I was like, okay, 455 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,479 Speaker 1: that's something I can work with. There was like no 456 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: bull there. It was just like straight up and that 457 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: was sort of the beginning of this journey. I love it. 458 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: And that's that's true that she has been a blessing. 459 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about Erica as a p because I've 460 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: been in Hollywood's N eighty two while doing sitcom. So 461 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: I've been blessed to watch her career evolved and grow 462 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: and diverse roles that she's taking upon herself. Now, the 463 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: interesting thing about my life is that when you when 464 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: you bring up names I know, like Sheila Jackson Lee, 465 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: you know she's out of Houston bear for me with 466 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: her work and it's HR forty bill in Congress? What 467 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: is the end game for you guys with this reparation? 468 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Is the big payback? Are you guys gonna go to 469 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: Congress one day and sit down and and talk to 470 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: Congress and tell them why your podcast is relevant? And 471 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: why then they're gonna look at you, Mr white guy? 472 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: You know? Why is he I got that movie style 473 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: over here because she's liberal Hollywood? Why that white guy 474 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: sitting with her? So? How are you guys? What's the 475 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: end game? Erica? What's going on? Go ahead with me? 476 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: Isn't that one? Yeah? Look, I got I got the 477 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: hate mail to prove it. People ask me that, you know, 478 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: my people ask me the same thing sometimes, and you 479 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: always joke. I said, I'm here to say white people, 480 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: So you know, and I think that that one of 481 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: the things is that I mean, we're we're working on 482 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: two tracks because we've actually been embedded in Sheila Jackson 483 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: Leave's office for you know, I think almost two years 484 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: now tracking HR forty and uh and filming that that 485 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: whole process. But look, the endgame is to help get 486 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: HR forty pass to bring that and the thing that's so, 487 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: and you know this, you know this well with Seana 488 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: that the HR forty is just a bill to talk 489 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: about it. It's not a bill that's promising anything. It's 490 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: a bill to establish commission to talk about the possibility 491 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 1: of retors and make recommendations. And so that seems to 492 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: me just like there are minimum, the bare minimum that 493 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: we should be doing as Americans. And one of the 494 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: things that I often talk about is we both believe 495 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: that this division, this division that was that was called 496 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: original sin of slavery, is at the root. It's sort 497 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: of like you know, it's at the root of so 498 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: many of our problems that are dividing us. And when 499 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: you talk about how we sort of see ourselves and 500 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: the way you're talking about storytelling earlier, I think that 501 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: one of the big things that we have to get 502 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: over is white people have to real wait. Americans have 503 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: to reimagine their story in this ethic of America. And 504 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: I think that HR forty and had a conversation we 505 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: can address those things head on can be a beginning 506 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: for that. I want to change just a little bit 507 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: subject about it, because you brought up your special Erica 508 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: that you I should say specially the do community with 509 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: John Lewis good trouble. I saw it, and I was 510 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: disappointed in myself that I didn't know the main I 511 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: didn't know his story. I didn't know, you know, because 512 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: the last two years we've been able to see a playoff, 513 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: especially when he was announced he had cancer and through 514 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: through this pandemic, and then of course he died. But 515 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: what was your biggest takeaway from Because I didn't know. 516 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: I really didn't know. He was like our modern day 517 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: version of Dr Martin Luther King. He was living in 518 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: breathing version of Dr Martin Luther King. And we didn't 519 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: really I think um appreciate that, especially in Black America, 520 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: definitely in not white America. And so why do you 521 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: think he was so because he was so humble first 522 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: of all, but he really didn't didn't climb out. He 523 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: never ran for senity, he never tried to run for 524 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: the office of Vice president, would never recommended that or 525 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: never tried to run for presidency. Talk about that special 526 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to bring that out of just 527 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: just my whole thing, and bringing you guys on was 528 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: to give you guys a voice, to lay down the 529 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: background that you guys have the right and the expertise 530 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: and the cachet to talk about reparations on your podcast 531 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: in this discussion of the big payback. But just give 532 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: us a little feedback on your role in your experience 533 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: of just the final months and years of John Lewis. Uh. 534 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: John Lewis is about destiny. Um. He is a wonderful 535 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: example of the true American dream. And that whole good 536 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: trouble thing, which is what you know is the name 537 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: of the film and his moniker and his motto. It's 538 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: basically just saying, if you see something that's not right, 539 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: not fair, not just do something, say something, get into trouble, 540 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: good trouble. It's asking us all to go beyond what's comfortable. 541 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: He then, he's not asking us to stand on the 542 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: bridge and get our brains beat out. He's not asking 543 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: us to to do those types of things that you know, 544 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: people in the struggle who might be more um trained 545 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: in non violence and what and what he did. He's 546 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: just saying, do more, you know, take it upon yourself 547 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: to get yourself and and and and reposition the argument, 548 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: the conversation, and and and take it upon yourself to 549 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: do it. He committed his to a fight for civil 550 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: rights and justice for all, justice for all, and he 551 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: did it. We know how he did it without malice, 552 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: with courage, just of his convictions, his abiding love of 553 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: the beloved community. He talks a lot about that, the 554 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: beloved community. UM. Martin Luther King talked a lot about it. 555 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: That certainly the philosophy of nonviolence UM peaceful protests. We 556 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: see Black Lives Matter out there doing their things in 557 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: the street. He was Black Lives Matters with Snick and 558 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: what he did. And so I think that if you 559 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: think about the boy from Troy, which was what Martin 560 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Luther King called him, he was sort of just stepped 561 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: into his destiny and he did it in the most 562 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: violent and one of the most violent racial storms in 563 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: America after slavery, actually the most. And we think about 564 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: George Floyd and all the things that are happening now, 565 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: they were just getting assassinated and killed left and right. 566 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: You didn't do that lightly. You knew what you were 567 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: going on to do. But he was an American icon 568 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: and he became an American icon because he stood and 569 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: he kept going forward and he got arrested and he 570 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: didn't just do overnight. He was there often for several 571 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: weeks before they could get him out and he went back. 572 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: You know, Jesse Jackson actually taught me a little bit 573 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: about how brave John Lewis was. He said that Rosa 574 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: Parks said that they said John Lewis did the hard time, 575 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: like they were impressed with John Lewis. Um. So again, 576 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: I think that the world didn't know about him because 577 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: he stood next to a really bright star, Martin Luther King, 578 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,239 Speaker 1: and we were always talking about Margareth the King and 579 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: all those big stars, Malcolm X and those things. But 580 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: now the cameras shifting boom, and we're starting to see 581 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: that there were other people, and we're starting to see 582 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: why he showed up on that bridge and talk about 583 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: the murder that happened there, or must these things happen 584 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: with murders? Is something horribly tragic happens and he showed 585 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: up to support the people in the town. But that's 586 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: why why, because it's time has come and John Lewis 587 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: deserves it. He got into good trouble. He's a freedom writer. 588 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: He is that boy from Way and telling that story 589 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: was an honor and the privilege. But I didn't know 590 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: how much. I didn't know until I got into it. 591 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: And thank you John Porter for being the director to 592 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: uh put her own credibility out there. And she had 593 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: to build that credibility by um directing Bobby Kennedy for 594 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: President Gideon's Army. She didn't just show up. And then 595 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: they gave her the opportunity to do good Trouble and 596 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: again we partner to bring it forward. The reason I 597 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: brought that up was that you guys are doing good Trouble, 598 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: and I wanted you to hear yourself talk and realized 599 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: that this reparation is about extending yourself beyond the normal 600 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: cause because both of you guys are taking risks because 601 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: people can everybody's not acting positively out there, but you. 602 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: But you, what you just said is why I wanted 603 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: you to hear. And I was so forwidded to hear 604 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: that you guys are doing good Trouble and that's a 605 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: very good thing. And I wanted to bring you on 606 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: the show and kind of put a little twist on 607 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: the end and let you know that you've worked in 608 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: the project that it led you this blessed course of development. 609 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: Podcast is Charlemagne and God give you a platform to 610 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: talk about reparation is the big payback. Thank you for 611 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: coming on my show, and thank you for allowing me 612 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: to uh to speak and to share your story with 613 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: my viewers and my listeners. Eric Alexander, movie star, as 614 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: she said, movies star written. All the works that you've done, 615 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: and the work that you've done as executive producer and 616 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: producing shows, and you know you've been in the trenches 617 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: and you and also teaching us about money and all 618 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: that other stuff. Thank you, brother, Thank you. I appreciate 619 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: you for coming on Money Making Conversation. Thank you so much. 620 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: If we need more Money Make Conversation interviews, please go 621 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: to Money Making Conversation dot com. I'm with Sean McDonald. 622 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: I am your host. 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