1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: and I'm Holly Frye. It's time for the episode on 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Parkway that was inspired by my recent 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: trip to Asheville and a historical display that I saw 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: outside the Folk Art Center at mile marker three eighty two. 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: When I saw that display, I thought, Hey, maybe we 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: should do an episode on the Blue Ridge Parkway, and 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: then some very cursory research turned that into it should 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: have an introduction on Skyline Drive and then the rest 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: of the episode will be on the Blue Ridge Parkway. 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: And then during the note taking, Skyline Drive grew into 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: its whole episode by itself, which came out on Monday. 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: I think we said last time, this isn't really a 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: two parter. There are some connections between the Blue Ridge 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: Parkway and Skyline Drive, including that they are physically connected 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: at Rockfish Gap in Virginia. The Blue Ridge Parkway is 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: four hundred and sixty nine miles long, making it the 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 2: longest linear park in the United States and the longest 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: roadway that was planned as a single unit. Like Skyline Drive, 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: its creation was deeply connected to the federal government's efforts 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 2: to provide relief from the Great Depression and to conserve 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: the landscape and the views of the Blue Ridge Mountains. 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: The Blue Ridge Parkway was planned as a road that 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: would stretch from Shenandoah National Park in Virginia to Great 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Smoky Mountains National Park on the border of North Carolina 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,919 Speaker 1: and Tennessee, as we talked about on Monday. The Southern 29 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Appalachian National Park Committee recommended the creation of both of 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: these parks in nineteen twenty four, and President Calvin Coolidge 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: signed their creation into law on May twenty second, nineteen 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: twenty six. But there was actually a similar road planned 33 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: through the Blue Ridge Mountains before that, a scenic toll 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: road that would run from Marion, Virginia to Tallula, Georgia. 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: This was proposed in nineteen oh six by North Carolina 36 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: state geologist Joseph Hyde Pratt, who was also a member 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: of the Commission of the Appalachian Forestry Reserve. Pratt secured 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: a charter for a company to build the road, and 39 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 2: construction on the first stretch of it started in nineteen fourteen, 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: but then World War One officially started in June of 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: that year, and that put an end to that construction. 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: The construction did not restart once the war was over. 43 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: A very short stretch of today's Blue Ridge Parkway follows 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: Pratt's proposed route. It is just a couple of miles 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 2: in North Carolina, a little bit south of Linville Falls. 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Discussions of a highway through the Blue Ridge Mountains resumed 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty eight, two years after Congress authorized the 48 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: establishment of Shenandoah, Great Smoky Mountains and Mammoth Cave National 49 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: Park Parks, the Eastern National Park to Park Highway Association, 50 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: led by Representative Maurice H. Thatcher of Kentucky, started advocating 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: for a highway that would link all of those parks together. 52 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: So this was inspired not just by the creation of 53 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: those parks, but also by the National Park to Park Highway, 54 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 2: which connected twelve national parks in the Western United States, 55 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: including Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, and Mount Rainier. 56 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: The National Park to Park Highway. 57 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: Was a loop more than five thousand miles long that 58 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 2: traveled through eleven states. It had been built to help 59 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: promote travel to the parks, and also out of necessity. 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: The federal government had established a collection of national parks, 61 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: and they were really known for their uniqueness and their beauty, 62 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: but there also just wasn't much infrastructure that would allow 63 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: people to actually visit them, or much in the way 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: of maps for the roads that did exist. This became 65 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: a bigger need as cars became more popular, more affordable, 66 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: and more available. That point, sort of, the popularity of 67 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: cars had outpaced the establishment of improved roads to handle them. 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: While the National Park to Park Highway existed, it was 69 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: pretty rugged. Most of it was not even paved. One 70 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: group of people departed Denver, Colorado, on August twenty sixth, 71 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, the day after the highway was dedicated, to 72 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: travel the whole route, and they stopped for lunches, dinners, 73 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: and speaking engagements, and then they spent the night somewhere 74 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: every night and this little road trip took them seventy 75 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: six days. So the idea of an Eastern National Park 76 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 2: to Park Highway got some support, including from the National 77 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: Park Service and the Bureau of Public Roads, which later 78 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: became the Federal Highway Administration. The idea for the Eastern 79 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: Highway was that it would build on established roads and highways. 80 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: It would improve ones that already existed and create new 81 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: ones where they did not exist. This proposed park to 82 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: Park Highway would travel through beautiful parts of the country, 83 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: but it was also meant to be a regular highway 84 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 2: open for recreation and for commercial traffic. 85 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: The Great Depression started just a year after the Eastern 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: National Park to Park Highway Association started advocating for this, 87 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: which meant very little progress was made on actually building it, 88 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: and then things went in a different direction. In nineteen 89 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: thirty three, President Franklin D. Roosevelt visited Civilian Conservation Core 90 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: Camps in Shenandoah National Park so as a recap. The 91 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: CCC was a work relief program that was part of 92 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Roosevelt's New Deal, and it was generally focused on projects 93 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: related to natural resources. During that visit, Senator Harry Bird 94 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: of Virginia suggested that a new road could be built 95 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: through the Blue Ridge Mountains, similar to Skyline Drive that 96 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: was in the process of being built through Shenandoah National Park, 97 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: and that road would connect Shenandoah to Great Smoky Mountains 98 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: National Park. 99 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: This would be a little bit different from the proposed 100 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: Eastern National Park to Park Highway. Bird did not pitch 101 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: the idea of connecting all three of the parks, just 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: Shenandoah and the Smokies, although there were some various proposals 103 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: to extend the southern end of this scenic road into Georgia, 104 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: and it also would not be a regular highway. 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: It would be a. 106 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Limited access road with no commercial traffic. In June of 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three, Congress passed the National Industrial Recovery Act, 108 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: which was another part of the New Deal. 109 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: This act did a lot. It suspended various antitrust laws 110 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: and instead encouraged businesses to collaborate with one another and 111 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to create codes of fair competition that would establish industry 112 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: wides standards for things like wages, prices, and consumer protections. 113 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: It also protected workers' rights to form unions and collectively bargain. 114 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: Title iiO of the Act was focused on public works 115 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: and construction projects, and it's set in part quote not 116 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: less than fifty million dollars of the amount made available 117 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: by this Act shall be allotted for a National Forest 118 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: Highways B National forest roads, trails, bridges, and related projects. 119 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: C National park roads and trails in national parks approved 120 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: or authorized. That fifty million dollars was part of a 121 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: three point three billion dollar federal public Works program. On 122 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: November twenty fourth, nineteen thirty three, Secretary of the Interior 123 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: Herald Ikis, approved the construction of a parkway connecting Shenandoah 124 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: and Great Smoky Mountains National Parks as a public works project. 125 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: The following month, four million dollars was allotted for the construction. 126 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: The Federal Highway Act of nineteen thirty four also included 127 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: language about increasing employment by allocating money for road construction, 128 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: including quote survey, construction, reconstruction, and maintenance of highways, roads, trails, bridges, 129 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: and related projects in national parks and monuments and national forests. 130 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: The next step was to plan a route. The easier 131 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: part was the northern end in Virginia since the road 132 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: was supposed to connect to Skyline Drive in Shenandoa National Park, 133 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: but since Great Smoky Mountains National Park is on the 134 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: border between North Carolina and Tennessee, the southern end of 135 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: the road could approach it through either of those states. 136 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: Although there were plenty of critics of this project, overall, 137 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: both states were extremely eager to be home to the 138 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: southern end of the parkway, since the construction would bring 139 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: jobs to the area and the finished parkway would be 140 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: a source of tourism dollars. This region had been economically 141 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: depressed even before the star of the Great Depression, and 142 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: the Depression had made that situation much worse, so there 143 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: was a huge need for relief whichever way the parkway went. 144 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: This led to almost a year of debate, with both 145 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: Tennessee and North Carolina laying out reasons for why their 146 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: route was the better one. As examples, the Tennessee route 147 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: left the mountains and proceeded along rivers at lower elevations, 148 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: so there was an argument that people might get tired 149 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: of the mountain driving and like that change of scenery. 150 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 2: But the proposed North Carolina route stayed in the mountains 151 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: and it was a lot more rugged, including the highest 152 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: elevations that the parkway would pass through. So advocates for 153 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: the North Carolina route suggested that people would appreciate those cooler, 154 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: higher elevations during the hot summers rather than having to 155 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: come down out of the mountains and drive through humid 156 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: valleys along the river. One of the supporters of the 157 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: North Carolina route was our Getty Browning. That's an engineer 158 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: who had scoped out the proposed route himself on foot. 159 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: Landscape architect Stanley William Abbott favored the Virginia route. Both 160 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: of these men were very deeply involved with the creation 161 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: of the parkway. Secretary Ikis appointed a committee chaired by 162 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: Maryland Senator George Radcliffe, and the first hearings were held 163 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: on February sixth, nineteen thirty four. The Radcliffe Committee recommended 164 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 2: the Tennessee route, but rather than going with that recommendation, 165 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: Itus approved only the portion that was the same for 166 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: both of the plans. This led to another round of 167 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: extensive lobbying by both sides and a second set of hearings. 168 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: The North Carolina route was finally approved on November tenth, 169 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty four. One of the arguments for going with 170 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: the North Carolina route was that Tennessee was already getting 171 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: federal relief and support through the Tennessee Valley Authority, which 172 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: had been established the year before. A decade after all 173 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: of this, Tennessee also got approval for its own parkway, 174 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: the Foothills Parkway, alongside Great Smoky Mountains National Park, although today, 175 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: more than eighty years later, only part of that parkway 176 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: is complete and opened to the public. 177 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: We'll talk about what it took to get the land 178 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: to build the parkway after we paused for a sponsor break. 179 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: As was the case with Skyline Drive. The road from 180 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: Shenandoah National Park to Great Smoky Mountains National Park was 181 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: supposed to be scenic. It was initially called the Appalachian 182 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: Scenic Highway, and in the early stages of the planning 183 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: and building, locals mostly just called it the Scenic President 184 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 2: Franklin D. Roosevelt signed legislation formally establishing it as the 185 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: Blue Ridge Parkway, to be administered and maintained by the 186 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: Secretary of the Interior through the National Park Service on 187 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 2: June thirtieth, nineteen thirty six. By that point, the construction 188 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: had been going on for about a year. Long before that, 189 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: even before the route was approved, the parkway was being 190 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 2: described not just as a road, but as an elongated 191 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: park with a much wider right of way than a 192 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: typical road. The right of way is the land that 193 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 2: a road rests on or is planned to be built on, 194 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: along with the land on either side that is owned 195 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: and maintained by a government entity. Exactly how much land 196 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: is needed depends on the type of road, like According 197 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: to the US Department of Transportation. A four lane divided 198 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: highway today needs a right of way of one hundred 199 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: fifty to three hundred feet as about forty five to 200 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: ninety one meters or more. In the nineteen thirties, the 201 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: right of way for a two lane road was often 202 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: more like fifty to seventy five feet or fifteen to 203 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: twenty two meters. But the plans for this parkway started 204 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: out with a plan of a very ambitious one thousand 205 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: feet or more than three hundred meters, to allow for 206 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: more control of the area around the road and its landscape. 207 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: That thousand foot right of way turned out to be 208 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: enormously impractical and really expensive, so in practice, as the 209 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: governments of North Carolina and Virginia got to work acquiring 210 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: all this land, they settled on rights of way as 211 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: narrow as two hundred feet in some places but more 212 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: like eight hundred feet in others. Scenic easements were also 213 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: obtained from property owners adjacent to the parkway. These easements 214 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: barred quote unsightly or offensive material such as sawdust, ashes, trash, 215 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: or junk, as well as things like billboards and other 216 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: commercial signs in sight of the parkway. Sometimes land that 217 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: the government acquired was also leased back to the land owners, 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: provided that they could follow those standards for keeping things scenic. 219 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 2: Just like with Shenandoah National Park, the process for obtaining 220 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 2: the land was handled by the states, with the land 221 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 2: then being transferred to the federal government. We talked about 222 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 2: Virginia's process on Monday. It had passed a blanket condemnation 223 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: law that allowed for one condemnation notice to cover an 224 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: entire county, and then the Commonwealth could buy those condemned 225 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: properties under eminent domain. Virginia would transfer the land to 226 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: the federal government once a price had been agreed upon 227 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: to compensate the landowner. In North Carolina, a map of 228 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: the affected properties was posted at each county courthouse, and 229 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 2: as soon as that map was posted, the property was 230 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: considered to belong to the state. The state could immediately 231 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: transfer it to the federal government and then negotiate a 232 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: price with the landowner afterward. People typically already knew that 233 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: this was coming before the maps were posted, and they 234 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: were also generally allowed to keep living on in using 235 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: their lands temporarily while the negotiations were going on to 236 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: settle on a price. In both states, this was a 237 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: confusing and frustrating process full of inconsistencies and contradictory information, 238 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: and people who were furious about being forced off their land. Understandably, 239 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: there were so many issues tracing back to people being 240 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: allowed to stay temporarily in North Carolina that in nineteen 241 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: thirty seven, the National Park Service recommended that no more 242 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: land be transferred until the people living on it had 243 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: been evicted. Virginia's policy of agreeing on a price before 244 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: transferring the land meant that it took a lot longer 245 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: to get the land of the federal government, but in 246 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: North Carolina, actually getting compensation for land that had already 247 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: been transferred became truly arduous. This could also have a 248 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: huge impact on people who were losing only a small 249 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: part of their land. Like if the parkway route cut 250 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: through the middle of somebody's farm, it wasn't just that 251 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: now there would be a road through the farm. It 252 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: would be a road that the farmer could not connect 253 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: a driveway to or use for commercial purposes. They might 254 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: not even be able to cross that road easily. 255 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: Most of the people who were affected by this were 256 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: small individual landowners. According to federal data, most of the 257 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: small farms in the region were earning only about eighty 258 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: six dollars per year, so part of the thought process 259 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: was that these families would ultimately be a lot better 260 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: off thanks to the tourism that the parkway would bring in, 261 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: But that didn't really make it easier for people who 262 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to lose their homes and farms, especially since 263 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: many of them had been on that land for generations. 264 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: Generally speaking, people who had more money and resources and 265 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: political connections were able to get more money for their land, 266 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and in some cases get it. 267 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: A lot faster. But there were also some wealthier landowners 268 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: who got into really high profile multi disputes over the parkway. 269 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: One was Harriet Clarkson, who had helped found the resort 270 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: town of Little Switzerland, North Carolina. Among other things, he 271 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 2: was a justice on the North Carolina Supreme Court. He 272 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 2: was also a white supremacist, and deeds in Little Switzerland 273 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 2: included racially restrictive covenants allowing their sale only to white people. 274 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: Clarkson argued that the parkway was going to wreck Little Switzerland, 275 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 2: and he filed suit after the States seized some of 276 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: his land. This case made its way to the state 277 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: Supreme Court, where Clarkson had to recuse himself. That left 278 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: the court split three to three, effectively upholding an earlier decision, 279 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: which meant that Clarkson got twenty five thousand dollars for 280 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: his land, plus the parkway's narrowest right of way through 281 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: Little Switzerland, plus multiple entrances to the parkway for the resort. 282 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: By the time things were settled, the dispute had gone 283 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: on for three years. The parkway did turn out to 284 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: be an economic boon for Little Switzerland, but Clarkson died 285 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty two without seeing that. 286 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: Benefit play out. 287 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: Construction of the parkway took a very long time, something 288 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 2: that we will be getting back to in a bit, 289 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: and one of the other big disputes started much later 290 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 2: in the process. So in the nineteen thirties, Hugh Morton's grandfather, 291 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: Donald had negotiated a right of way at a lower 292 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 2: elevation on land that he owned near Grandfather Mountain in 293 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: North Carolina, and that land was open to tourists. Once 294 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: the work on the parkway actually got started, though, the 295 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: government started looking at a higher elevation route around Grandfather 296 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 2: Mountain instead. Eventually, Morton's grandfather died and then After World 297 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: War II, Morton took control of the family business. He 298 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: developed that property into a much bigger tourist attraction, with 299 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: a road up to the top of Grandfather Mountain and 300 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: a mile high swinging bridge which if you grew up 301 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: in North Carolina during a certain era you surely saw 302 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 2: ads for. This was a suspension bridge that went across 303 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: an eighty foot chasm on the property. 304 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: No thank you. Morton is often framed as a conservationist 305 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: who is fighting to save the mountain. He liked to 306 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: say that the parkway was taking a switchblade to the 307 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: Mona Lisa, and he did do a lot of conservation 308 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: work at Grandfather Mountain, but he also built a road 309 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,479 Speaker 1: to the top of it. A big part of this 310 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: dispute was really about how the parkway would affect his 311 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: growing tourist attraction. He had the support of various high 312 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: ranking political figures, including a series of North Carolina governors 313 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: and other wealthy people, so this dispute went on for 314 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: more than forty years. Ultimately, Morton and the National Park 315 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: Service did reach an agreement involving a middle route between 316 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: the lower and higher elevation routes, but this stretch of 317 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: the Parkway was the last to be built, and it 318 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: didn't happen until the nineteen eighties. We're going to come 319 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: back to that in just a bit. 320 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: The last prolonged dispute we're going to talk about was 321 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: actually the first one that happened chronologically, and it involved 322 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 2: the state of North Carolina, the federal government, and the 323 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. The Cherokee's historical homeland spanned 324 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: much of the southeastern United States, in and around the 325 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 2: southern Appalachian Mountains. Many of the Cherokee had been forced 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 2: out of this territory in the nineteenth century, including during 327 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: the massive removal that became known as the Trail of Tears. 328 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: We talked about this more in our Georgia gold Rush episode, 329 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: which came out on August twenty seventh of twenty eighteen. 330 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: Some of the Cherokee resisted this relocation, and others later 331 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: returned to the mountains from what's now Oklahoma. Today, the 332 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is the only federally recognized 333 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: tribe in North Carolina, with about fifteen thousand enrolled members. 334 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: The Eastern Band's home in western North Carolina is the 335 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: Kuala boundary, which is often described as a reservation. It 336 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: is not land that the federal government set aside as 337 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: a reservation for the Cherokee, though, it's land that the 338 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: Cherokee purchased for themselves in the later part of the 339 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, which is under a protective trust from the 340 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: federal government. Enrolled members have the right to buy, sell, 341 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: and own the land. So the parkway planners wanted to 342 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: acquire fifteen miles of right away across the Kuala boundary 343 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: near the southern end of the Parkway route, but the 344 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is a federally recognized tribe 345 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: and a sovereign indigenous nation. This was also happening after 346 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty four Indian Reorganization Act, also called the 347 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: Indian New Deal, which had shifted the federal government's policy 348 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: toward indigenous people as one of tribal sovereignty and indigenous 349 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: self determination. There were multiple laws and federal policies and 350 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: agencies involved with this, which meant that the State of 351 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: North Carolina could not just condemn this land and acquire 352 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: it under eminent domain the way that it could with 353 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: non indigenous landowners outside the Kuala boundary. This conflict had 354 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: so many layers. The Cherokee in North Carolina were organized 355 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: and politically savvy, but they had also already been struggling 356 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: economically before the start of the Great Depression, and the 357 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: Great Depression had, of course worsened the situation. Most of 358 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: the land and the Kuala Boundary was not arable farmland, 359 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: so much of the tribe's income had been coming from timber, 360 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: but the timber industry had collapsed in the wake of 361 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: the depression. The fifteen miles of right of way that 362 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: were wanted for the parkway included some of the tribes 363 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: limited amount of arable land. 364 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 2: There were also a lot of other questions about what 365 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: the parkway would mean for the Cherokee, like what was 366 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: most important the land that the Cherokee had secured for 367 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: themselves in the face of colonization and removal and genocide. 368 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: Or was it the agricultural products that could come from 369 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: that land which people needed. Or was the tourism that 370 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: the parkway could potentially bring Was that the most important? 371 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: If the parkway passed through part of the Kuala boundary, 372 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: what would the expectations be for the Cherokee living near 373 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: it or for the Cherokee elsewhere in the Kuala Boundary. 374 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: There were very real and reasonable fears that the Parkway 375 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: could turn Cherokee into basically a human zoo, with non 376 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: indigenous tourists expecting to see people in what they imagined 377 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: was a Cherokee way of life. There were some similar 378 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 2: concerns for the rest of the Parkway as well, about 379 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 2: whether tourists would be expecting to see stereotypical hillbillies. But 380 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: this of course had some additional nuances for the Cherokee. 381 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: That was also connected to questions and differing opinions among 382 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: the Cherokee about what was best for them as a people, 383 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: and these are questions that had been ongoing since Europeans 384 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: had started colonizing the region. Was it better to try 385 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,959 Speaker 1: to assimilate or to maintain Cherokee culture and identity as 386 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: much as possible, or perhaps some combination of both. 387 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty five, the Cherokee approved a right of 388 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: way across part of the Kuala Boundary, but then they 389 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: rescinded that approval after it became clear that the proposed 390 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: route was going to take more arable land than had 391 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 2: been anticipated. That led to a proposal for a land swap, 392 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: giving the Cherokee arable land that was already part of 393 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: Great Smoky Mountains National Park in exchange for that right 394 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: of way. Principal Chief Jarrett Blythe had been opposed to 395 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: the initial route through the Kuala boundary, but was open 396 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 2: to finding some kind of compromise, But a vocal opposition 397 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: had also developed within the tribe, and one of the 398 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: most outspoken opponents to the park parkway was Vice Chief 399 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: Fred Bauer. This dispute went on for more than three years, 400 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: and by nineteen thirty nine, the Department of the Interior 401 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 2: was starting to explore whether there was a way to 402 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 2: seize the land under eminent domain. The state of North 403 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: Carolina started working on a bill that would allow for this. 404 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: All of these issues became part of the Cherokee tribal 405 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: election in nineteen thirty nine. In that election, Blythe was 406 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 2: overwhelmingly re elected as Principal Chief and Bower and some 407 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: of his supporters were voted out. Afterward, the Cherokee Tribal 408 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 2: Council voted in support of a new plan, a higher 409 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: elevation ridge route for the parkway that would not impact 410 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: the tribe's arable land. This was contingent upon financial compensation 411 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: for that right of way, as well as a commitment 412 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 2: from the federal government to build a regular highway to 413 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: the Kuala boundary to give the Cherokee better access to 414 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: the rest of the region and be all of this 415 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: was settled in nineteen forty one. The Cherokee were paid 416 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars for that right of way, and the 417 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 2: federal government later built a stretch of US Highway nineteen 418 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 2: through the Cherokee area. In addition to all of this, 419 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Parkway was intended to be a linear park, 420 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: connecting a string of larger parks with campgrounds, picnic areas, trails, 421 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: and other amenities along it. Some of those larger parks 422 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: were built, but not all the ones that were part 423 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: of the original plan. Land for recreation areas beyond the 424 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: right of way for the road was acquired through the 425 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 2: Depression era relief agency called the Resettlement Administration, through private 426 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 2: donations and through transfers of land already controlled by the 427 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: US Forest Service. Several parks along the parkway were also 428 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 2: privately donated, including Moses H. Cone Memorial Park and Julian 429 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: Price Memorial Park in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. We will 430 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 2: get to the actual building of the parkway after another 431 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: sponsor break. We mentioned two of the people who were 432 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: heavily involved in the design of the Blue Ridge Parkway earlier, 433 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 2: Stanley L. 434 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: Abbot and R. 435 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 2: Gedty Browning. Browning was a Federal Parkway engineer whose maps 436 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: of the area and the suggested route became a big 437 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 2: part of the parkway planning. Abbot was named Resident Landscape 438 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: Architect and the acting Superintendent of the parkway in early 439 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven. Abbot took some inspiration from Skyline Drive 440 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: in Shenandoah National Park, which was also one of the 441 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 2: general inspirations for the Blue Ridge Parkway. He also took 442 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: inspiration from the work of landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted, 443 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: who is sometimes called the father of American landscape architecture. 444 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: Abbot and the other landscape architects who worked on the 445 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: parkway wanting to fit the road into the mountains as 446 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: if nature had put it there. From above, it would 447 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: look like a ribbon curving through the landscape. This also 448 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: applied to the view from the road. He was a 449 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: big proponent of the scenic easements that we mentioned earlier. 450 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 2: Gabbitt also developed a visual approach to the parkway that 451 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: emphasized preserving and conserving the land and its history, while 452 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: also keeping a managed landscape in mind for the future, 453 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: sort of like a Skyline Drive. This is a thing 454 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: where you look out from the parkway and it looks 455 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: like it has always been that way and its natural state, 456 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: but it's really a managed view that people are seeing. 457 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: The construction also had a lot of similarities to Skyline Drive, 458 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: including using local stone for bridges and tunnels, and focusing 459 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: on native plants in view of the parkway. Lots of 460 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: other roads cross under the parkway, and these bridges for 461 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: the parkway were often built from local stone with a 462 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 2: very similar rustic look. This also applied to things like 463 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 2: retaining walls, bridges, and tunnels to be built along the 464 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 2: parkway itself. Forty five different construction units were involved in 465 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: building the parkway in the late nineteen thirties. As was 466 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: the case with Skyline Drive, private contractors were involved, but 467 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 2: much of the labor was paid for by Depression era 468 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: relief programs, including the Work's Progress Administration, the Emergency Relief Administration, 469 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 2: and the Civilian Conservation Corps. There were four CCC units 470 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 2: that worked on the parkway, and one of them, the 471 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: Gaylax Virginia Camp, was for black men. The CCC didn't 472 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: build the road itself, but was focused on things like 473 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: overlooks and amenities, as well as grading slopes and planting 474 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: trees and other plants. While Skyline Drive and Shenandoah National 475 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: Park were both opened by the late nineteen thirties, the 476 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: Blue Ridge Parkway was a lot longer and a lot 477 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: more complex. A stretch of about twenty miles in North 478 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: Carolina near the Virginia border was open and ready for 479 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: travel by nineteen thirty nine, and by the time the 480 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: United States became involved in World War II, about one 481 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty miles were complete and the first concessions 482 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: had opened to the public. Like Shenandoah National Park, there 483 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 2: wasn't an overall racial segregation policy for the park, but 484 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: the initial plans had involved the construction of segregated facilities. 485 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: Only some of those facilities had been built by the 486 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 2: time the war started. New construction work on the parkway 487 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: had been suspended entirely during the war, and three camps 488 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: of conscientious objectors from the Civilian Public Service worked to 489 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: maintain what was already done or in progress. Most of 490 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: the sections that had opened were not widely used during 491 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 2: the war due to shortages of rubber and fuel and 492 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: a ban on driving for leisure. When construction resumed after 493 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: the war, it was without building an new segregated facilities, 494 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: but the parkway did still exist within the racial attitudes 495 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: of the areas that it was passing through. To be clear, 496 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: though those communities were not exclusively white. The parkway passes 497 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: through areas that are home to Melungeons, which are a 498 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: multi racial ethnic group in the Appalachian Mountains. That's a 499 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 2: term that started out as a slur but was later reclaimed. 500 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 2: The parkway also passed through a number of black communities, 501 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: some of them dating back to before the Civil War, 502 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: and some of the land that was acquired for the 503 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 2: parkway was acquired from black families, including the Saunders family, 504 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: who had a farm near Peaks of Water, Virginia, which 505 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: they sold to the government in nineteen forty two. There's 506 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 2: also a cemetery that meadows of Dan Baptist Church at 507 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: Malpost one seventy seven that's believed to be a slave cemetery. 508 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: We also talked about the southern end of the Parkway 509 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: running through Cherokee Lands in the Kuala Boundary earlier in 510 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: the episode. After the war, construction on the parkway was 511 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: also a lot slower. There was no longer the same 512 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: sense of urgency about job creation that had propelled the 513 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: earlier work on the parkway, and most of the Depression 514 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: era relief programs that had been paying for labor had 515 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 2: already ended. In nineteen fifty six, the National Park Service 516 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: launched a ten year project called Mission sixty six, which 517 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: was a plan to expand the park Service handle a 518 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: lot of badly needed maintenance and finished projects that had 519 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: been languishing, including the Blue Ridge Parkway, which still was 520 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: not done, and by the end of Mission sixty six 521 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 2: only seven point seven miles of the parkway were still unfinished. 522 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: That last seven point seven miles included the stretch around 523 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: Grandfather Mountain, which we mentioned before the break as being 524 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: in dispute for decades. The National Park Service and Hugh 525 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: Morton finally reached an agreement in the nineteen seventies. A 526 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: lot of the descriptions of this agreement make it sound 527 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: as though Morton's approval required the National Park Service to 528 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: build a viaduct around the side of the Grandfather Mountain 529 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: to protect the ecosystem, but a viaduct had really been 530 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: part of the plan, since parkway planners had decided to 531 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: pursue a higher elevation route than the one that Morton's 532 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: grandfather had originally approved. The Lenco Viaduct around Grandfather Mountain was, 533 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: for the time an engineering marvel. It's made of one 534 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty three pre cast concrete segments, each of 535 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: them unique. They are held up by piers that were 536 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: cast on site. The bridge itself was the only approach 537 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: to the construction site and heavy machinery would have damaged 538 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: the landscape, so all of the work was done from above, 539 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: with equipment being brought in by helicopter and the segments 540 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: placed one at a time by a crane that moved 541 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: along the viaduct as it was building it. This one 542 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty foot viaduct was finished in nineteen 543 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: eighty three and lost almost ten million dollars, and it 544 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: earned eight different professional awards, including the nineteen eighty four 545 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: Presidential Award for Design Excellence. 546 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 2: Side note. Hugh Morton died in two thousand and six, 547 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: and two years later the Morton family sold part of 548 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: their lands to the state of North Carolina. It is 549 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 2: now Grandfather Mountain State Park. The roadways connecting the viaduct 550 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: to the rest of the parkway on either side were 551 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 2: finished in nineteen eighty seven, at which point the entire 552 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: four hundred and sixty nine miles were opened for public travel. 553 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 2: This project had taken more than fifty years to complete. 554 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: Over the course of its construction, it also served as 555 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 2: a training ground for engineers for essentially a generation, about 556 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 2: ten percent of the engineers at the US Bureau of 557 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 2: Public Roads. Later the Federal Highway Administration went through part 558 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 2: of their training working on the Blue Ridge Parkway. When 559 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 2: the parkway was first proposed as a connection between Shenandoah 560 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 2: National Park and Great Smoky Mountains National Park, the assumption 561 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: was that a lot of people would be using it 562 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: to travel from one park to the other, but by 563 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 2: the time the parkway was mostly finished in nineteen sixty six, 564 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 2: there were way more options to do that thanks to 565 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: the Interstate Highway System spearheaded under the administration of President 566 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 2: Dwight D. Eisenhower, and many other road building projects. When 567 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: the parkway is fully open, which currently it is not, 568 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 2: it takes at least ten or twelve hours to drive 569 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 2: from one end to the other, and that's without really 570 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 2: stopping to eat or go to the bathroom or you know, 571 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 2: look at anything. Some people do the whole thing as 572 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: more of a five or six day road trip with 573 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: stops and sightseeing. But if your goal is just to 574 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: get from one of those parks to the other, today 575 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: there are highway routes that take more like five or 576 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: six hours, as long as you don't run into a 577 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: lot of traffic problems. 578 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: Even before the Linco Viaduct was finished, the Blue Ridge 579 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,760 Speaker 1: Parkway had become one of the most pot popular parts 580 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: of the National park system, surpassing Shenandoah National Park as 581 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: the most visited national park in the US, and it 582 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: definitely brought a surge of tourism to the Blue Ridge 583 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: Mountains of North Carolina and Virginia. According to the National 584 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 1: Park Service, when it's fully open, the parkway creates one 585 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: point three billion dollars in economic benefits annually, and it 586 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: supports almost eighteen thousand jobs. Obviously, though those communities relationships 587 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: with tourism are very complicated, the. 588 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: Parkway has also faced other challenges. Although its original planners 589 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 2: were focused on the preservation of native ecosystems and replanting 590 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 2: native species along the parkway. There's some evidence suggesting that 591 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 2: the parkway and its human and vehicle traffic have made 592 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 2: it easier for non native species and pathogens to really 593 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 2: spread through the area. This includes plants like oriental bittersweet 594 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 2: and Flora bunder rose, which can compete other plants, and 595 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 2: insects like emerald ashboor and hemlock woolly adelgin. And of course, 596 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: there are issues like air pollution and runoff from roads 597 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 2: and parking lots that would not be there without the parkway. 598 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: And the reason that we keep saying when it's fully 599 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: open when talking about the road is that Hurricane Helene 600 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: did immense damage to the Blue Ridge Parkway, including downing 601 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of trees, causing landslides that buried or 602 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: undercut the roadway, and washing out parts of the road 603 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: through flooding. The entire parkway had to be closed immediately 604 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: after the storm, and more than one hundred and fifty 605 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: miles of it are still closed as of the end 606 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: of May twenty twenty five. These closed sections are all 607 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: in North Carolina. The Virginia section is open apart from 608 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: some roadwork unrelated to Helene and the Roanoke Mountain Loop, 609 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: which has been closed since a landslide in twenty eighteen 610 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,439 Speaker 1: that was caused by the remnants of Hurricane Michael. There 611 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: has been some funding allocated to repairing all of this 612 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: immense destruction, including disaster relief funding allocated by Congress and 613 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: funds from the Federal Highway Administration. This includes thirty two 614 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: point six million dollars in funding to be split between 615 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: the US Forest Service and the National Park Service for 616 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: post Hellene repairs to the parkway. But this will probably 617 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,839 Speaker 1: be a many, many years long recovery process, especially since 618 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: the National Park Service another federal agencies, have already been 619 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: faced with budget cuts and layoffs under the Trump administration. 620 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: There's a massive reduction enforced plan for the National Park 621 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: Service that as of this moment that we're recording, still 622 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: seems to be tentative, not fully clear exactly how damaging 623 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: the impact will be for all of that. 624 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: That's the Bluegridge Parkway. 625 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: Do you have listener mail? 626 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 2: I do I have listener mail from mave and and 627 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 2: this is about a little bit of an older episode, 628 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 2: but we ran it as a Saturday Classic last year. 629 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 2: The subject line is longtime listener and the subject of bees. 630 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 2: Hi Holly and Tracy, I hope you are both doing well. 631 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 2: I'm a longtime listener since about twenty fifteen and first 632 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 2: time writer. I was recently listening to the Saturday Classic 633 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 2: on beekeeping, and some of your discussion of the bees 634 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 2: themselves prompted me to chime in with my own experience. 635 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 2: I thought you may like hearing more about the state 636 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 2: or research for bees nowadays. While I can't speak for 637 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: every state, I spent the better part of a year 638 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 2: surveying bee species in central Louisiana as an undergraduate research 639 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: under my college's entomologist, who has a fondness for them. 640 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 2: Biology and especially entomology are interesting fields because despite how 641 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 2: long humans have observed the natural world, there is still 642 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 2: a lot we don't know. Part of the issue is 643 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 2: the disbalanced ratio of entomologists to insects. There are so 644 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 2: so many insects that most entomologists focus entirely on a 645 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 2: select few groups, or even just one group. There's also 646 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 2: a severe lack of funding for biological sciences in general. 647 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 2: But I'm sure you could have guessed that yourselves I 648 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 2: was faced with that unknown in a very real way 649 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 2: when I started doing research for my proposal for the 650 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 2: survey finding and found next to no prior research on 651 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: bees in the state outside of two heavily populated areas. 652 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: So when you mentioned the Africanized honeybees, I found it 653 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 2: a bit amusing, because while it is entirely possible that 654 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: they're in Louisiana, we have no idea. Even my studies 655 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: barely scratched the surface of the species present that there 656 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 2: is a bigger project looking into it right now that 657 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 2: I'm not part of. Like you said, though, honeybees have 658 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 2: varying effects depending on the conditions they are in. On 659 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 2: the green of our campus last spring, we did not 660 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 2: find a single bee that was not the European honeybee 661 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 2: or Eastern carpenter bee. On the other hand, and the 662 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 2: few times we collected in a prairie with only native forage, 663 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 2: we didn't find a single one. Just as well, the 664 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 2: physical differences between the Africanized bees and normal honey bees 665 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 2: is so minor that it would likely be overlooked entirely 666 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 2: unless one was specifically looking for it or had familiarity 667 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 2: with them. There were even times we got the bees 668 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 2: that matched none of the resources we had available, but 669 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 2: due to the complicated nature of DNA testing such a 670 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 2: small organism, we didn't have much luck figuring out what 671 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: they were past their family. I'd also like to mention 672 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 2: for bee lovers you might like to check out the 673 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 2: Xerxes Society as and official pollinator gardens. You are likely 674 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 2: to find many lovely places you can support in some 675 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 2: way and go observe bees and other pollinators like butterflies, beetles, 676 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 2: and moths. I love your podcasts and everything you guys do, 677 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: and I have been listening since shortly after both of 678 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 2: you were on as hosts. When I first listened to 679 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: I was in a dark place in my life, and 680 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,439 Speaker 2: hearing the two of you helped me feel human again 681 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 2: and less lonely. Their podcast has gotten me through a 682 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 2: lot of hard times nowadays. I have a long commute 683 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 2: and a lot of time where I do tedious lab work, 684 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 2: so having you guys to listen to is one of 685 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 2: my favorite ways to spend the time. Even subjects I 686 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 2: don't think will be interesting at verse always end up 687 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 2: intriguing me once I start the episode. Mayve goes on 688 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 2: to say that that as a longtime lover of Cela Camp. 689 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 2: The episode on Marjorie Courtney Lattery was a favorite, and 690 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 2: there are also some suggestions for future episodes. And we 691 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 2: have some pet tax with a dots named Fenrier who 692 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 2: is called Finny, a lab mix Sissy, an orange cat 693 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 2: named Nubby, a fuzz muffin Teddy who likes to shed 694 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 2: over everybody, and a mandatory alligator picture. And then uh 695 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 2: may have apologizes for being wordy. You do not need 696 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 2: to apologize. This was a lovely email with a lot 697 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: of very awesome pet pictures. All of these animals are 698 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 2: very very cute. I'm gonna click until I get to 699 00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 2: the alligator one. 700 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: I love an alligator. 701 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think the alligator is anyone's pet. It 702 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 2: is just out in the wild. I mean I say 703 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 2: that as though it was likely it's not anyone's pet. Obviously, 704 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 2: it is an alligator in the wild, just hanging out 705 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 2: by the edge of the water. Thank you so much 706 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 2: for this email. I like bees a lot, and so 707 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 2: getting to return to the beekeeping episode, even though it 708 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 2: was a bit ago, is lovely. If you'd like to 709 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 2: send us a note about this or any other podcast 710 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 2: or at History podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you 711 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 2: can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app or 712 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:46,320 Speaker 2: anywhere else you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you 713 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 2: Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For 714 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 715 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.