WEBVTT - How Dog Training Works 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:12.520 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.960 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's guest 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.360 producer Roll over there, and that makes this Stuff you 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:25.200 Should Know about dogs. We love dogs, heart them. We 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.280 talk a lot about dogs, have dogs, We have dogs. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.239 Just love dogs in general. They're the best. Train them 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.680 up the end the end, train them right though. Yeah, 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:39.479 this was an interesting one for me because I am 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:44.120 terrible at dog training. Uh and I just I do 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.280 a mix of so many things. I'm just my poor 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:47.879 dogs don't even know what to do. None of their 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.720 behaviors their fault. Well, yeah, I think my fault. That 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:57.080 seems to be true among um like like I want 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.640 to say, not high end, but a good dog trainers, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:06.360 like professional dog trainers. Trainers. Yeah, they they would agree 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.080 that not just with you, but any dog's bad behavior 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.720 as a result of their human not training them well 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.960 or properly, are at all true. Although I will say, 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.080 I mean any dog can be trained supposedly. I've seen 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.760 those shows. But uh, you know, my dog Nico is 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:28.360 just so hot wired when someone comes over. Now, she's 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:33.679 the uh brindle, just so hot wired when people come 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:38.880 over that I just don't know what to do. What 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.039 do you mean hot wired? Just so excited and like 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:49.560 so excited she's about to implode into a nuclear fission reaction, 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.880 like just really really low knows he knows, Nico. It's 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.440 like it's very very tough to rain her in when 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.440 someone knocks on that door and comes over. Chill out 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.240 after ten minutes, but it's just hard to not get 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.400 her to jump up on people and stuff because they 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.160 got to be in on it too, you know. Well, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.880 I would say that probably any high end dog trainer 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.120 would would say that you should give her tranquilizers all 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.359 the time, especially when somebody's coming over, but you better 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.040 sleep her life away. Your instinct as a dog owner 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.520 is when someone comes over and your dog jumps on him, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.280 it's to say, now, Nico, get down, get off of them, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.079 and even like pull them off. But this article says like, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.720 like no, even a scolding is reinforcing that behavior, because 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.799 all that dog wants his attention, even if it's a scolding, right, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.120 and and if you if you say no or whatever, 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.160 the dog gets the attention. It prefer positive attention where 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.160 you're like, yeah, jump up, that's great, but it'll take 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.560 you know, Nico or any other dog will take UM 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.600 will take the the know what they say to do 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.560 is to just ignore it. Just ignore the dog until 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.320 they're doing what you want them to do, and then 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.280 reward the dog. And I think that what you said, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:01.959 and I'm glad you said this because we really need 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.399 to get this across. What people have been discovering more 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.440 and more about dog training in the last like twenty 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:13.680 years is that having a dog and raising a good 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:19.560 dog is requires way more than we previously thought. It did, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.960 way more attention, way more research, way more patience, way 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.440 more persistence, way more than it used to and and 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.880 rightfully so, I mean it should require this and one 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.800 of the reasons why it does require more is because 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:38.280 there's been a real shift in mentality over what direction 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.800 you should take to train a dog. I keep saying 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:42.440 raise a dog. I think that's a good way to 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.200 put it too, but um that it used to be different, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.720 and that still is that way for some people. Who 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.000 is we'll see, but there there. It used to be 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.600 much easier because you just asserted yourself physically, psychologically, you 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.440 yelled at your dog, you spanked your dog, and you 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.880 basically showed your dog who was boss, and then after 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.280 that they would just kind of behave. They're saying like, no, 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.440 don't do that anymore. That's not good. It really has 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.280 really terrible effects on the dog, harms your relationship with 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.760 the dog, and instead, um, you really need to just 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.160 give a hundred and ten percent whereas before you're giving. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.279 Maybe that's right. So what you're talking about are the 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:26.880 two main approaches dominance or positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.479 a straight up operat conditioning technique where you reward your 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.480 dog for good behaviors or I guess we shouldn't even 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:34.960 say good and bad. They say not to do that 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.880 with children and dogs, desirable behaviors and a focus on 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.919 what a dog should do, whereas dominance is a technique 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.000 to discourage unwanted behaviors what you should not do. And 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.479 the whole dominance theory is based on this idea, and 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.400 this has been around since well who knows where it 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.880 got its original start, but at least since the seventies. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.400 They're these dog training monks in Cambridge, New York called 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.400 the news Skeet Monks and they are monks who raise 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:10.320 and breed German shepherds and write dog training books. Right, well, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.640 I mean that the monks are supposed to give something 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.320 back to the world. Someone throw beer, and these guys 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.760 trained dogs. I like the beer brewers better. But um, 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.560 it's been at least around since then. But this is 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.240 based on the the idea that dogs are really just 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:31.320 wolves two point oh in dogs clothing. Yeah, and that wolves. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.960 We should look at the behavior of wolves and they 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:38.080 are pack animals with an alpha male and an alpha female. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.560 Will get more into that, and we can extrapolate that 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.279 to dogs. And so that's how and this is what 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.919 these monks say too, that's what you should be doing 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.760 is mimicking what wolves do. And well it's about to 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.039 say in the wild, not that not the case. Really 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.039 what wolves have been studied doing in captivity, which is 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.960 a key point. Right And then like because they have 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.599 packs with the leader calling out alpha male and alpha female, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:07.200 the alpha male and female um maintain their position um 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:12.120 through dominance, through acts of like aggression, violence, and that 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.760 they're constantly challenged for these positions. So that so much 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.599 so that this constant struggle over dominance and alphadom, uh 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.919 is what shapes wolf society, and that that if you 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.400 take that and you just assume, like you said, that 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.080 dogs are just a different type of wolf, that they're 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:32.960 so closely related to wolves and descended from wolves, that 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.200 the same kind of mentality applies to dogs. If you 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.440 create that kind of situation in your own home, you 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.240 will have a happier, more obedient dog who understands its 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.200 place in this household, which to your dog is just 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.400 a pack. That's right. Uh. This has started in the 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.839 nineteen sixties. There were a bunch of studies observing these 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.240 wolf packs and their social structures. I saw it even 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.520 earlier than that. I saw a guy named Rudolph Schenkel 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.320 was doing this in n and that he's the one 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.160 who coined this ide the idea and the term alpha. 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.880 And he was also the guitarist for the Scorpions. If 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.920 I'm not mistaken, I think you're thinking of John Fogerty's guitarists, 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.880 which is I think was his brother Rudy Schenko. Rudy Schenko. 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.680 So uh yeah, So they're they're observing these wolves and 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:26.360 they're saying that, um, there's a continual pattern in the 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.960 in the pack of the male members vying for control, 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.200 challenging the alpha, and then the alpha putting it down, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.880 usually physically and also psychologically. I guess as much as 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:42.240 you can get into the psychology of a wolf. And um, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:43.920 here's the thing. I mean, should we go ahead and 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:46.800 say what the deal is? I feel like that's there. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.880 Should that be a third ex spoiler? No? No, I 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.160 think we can go ahead all right? That I said 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.640 they were studying captive wolves. That's the that's the rub 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.880 here is that they're studying wolves in captivity. And it 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.160 took this the guy and the when was that then? 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.640 The nineties? Yeah, David meck, Yeah, that actually studied wolves 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.080 in the wild. And he's like, that's not what's going 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.360 on at all, because you're it's like studying humans in 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.520 a refugee camp or a prison, Like the behaviors aren't 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.960 gonna be the same. What I'm observing is these animals 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.000 that follow what most animals in the animal kingdom do 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.520 or many, which is uh, their their families. And the 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.680 alpha is the alpha because he's the dad, right exactly. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.120 That Like when they said like, oh, no, wolves are 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:36.040 constantly you know, under these physical attacks for their status 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.959 is the alpha alpha wolf. Um. They what they were 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.640 saying was like, these these wolves are in a completely 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.360 unnatural setting in situation, and you've got a bunch of 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.439 different alpha's who are trying to figure out who's in charge. 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.160 And yeah, there was a lot of aggression and dominance. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.040 But this was a terrible thing to base this idea 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:57.640 on how to train a dog because it was a 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.960 totally artificial situation. And it wasn't until I think, what 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:07.360 did you say that mec he actually revised in earlier book. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.320 He wrote a book in nineteen eighty that took these 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.760 earlier ideas and said, yeah, these are totally correct. And 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.600 now he's like, I wish I'd never I got it 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:21.040 so wrong. Yes, there is dominance, there are alpha's, but 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.320 it's like you said, Chuck, their mom and dad that's 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.000 what we would call him, just in the same way 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.760 that your mom and your dad are the boss of 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.000 you when you're a kid, same thing in a wolf pack. Yeah, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.280 and dad goes out and gets the food. Uh, moms 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.280 takes care of the kids and protects the kids and acts, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:43.680 as you know, the defensive guard over their den. And 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:45.760 that's just how it works. And then after a couple 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:50.800 of years. Um, the male puppies, I guess leave. They've 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.559 become alpha's of their own families. And he observed the 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:58.720 stuff over where is it Canada's Elsmere Island every summer 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.320 for thirteen years and they have the that island has 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.880 the best carnival in Canada. It really changed the way 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.439 people look at wolves and ergo dogs. Yeah for the 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.040 UM what the revision of it or the earlier stuff, Well, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.720 the revision of it, sure, yeah, it totally did because 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.920 everybody realized that this dominance based training that people have 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.760 been doing, where you basically beat up your dog if 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:29.120 there if there is like a sense of like alpha 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.199 dom that your dog is following, your dog is basically 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.719 like my dad is beating me up and yelling at 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.000 me all the time, and I'm just scared and anxious 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:42.400 about everything. So the dog training world realized that this 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.160 is what was happening, that it was based on faulty 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.600 preliminary original research, and they switched. They change. They went 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:55.240 to a much more respectful, happier, friendlier UM way of 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:59.360 training that doesn't involve punishment, it involves basically rewards. An 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.320 extinction is well, we'll look at later on. All right, well, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.560 let's take a break. We were talking about beating up 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.679 your dog, but when we come back, we'll talk about 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.680 specific techniques the people that subscribe to the dominance theory believe. 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:35.840 And all right, so you talked about people beating up 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.560 their dogs. I know you're sort of kidding, um, but 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.440 there are actual physical things that they say to do 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.640 in dominance training. Uh. And they are as follows. One. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.760 It's called the alpha roll, uh not R O L 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:55.080 E R O L L. So this is when the 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.440 trainer will are you know, I guess if you're the owner, 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.560 and trainer will pin the dog on its back and 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.040 hold the dog there by the chest or the throat 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.560 until the dog gives in and and stops the struggle. Okay, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.320 that is slightly different than dominance down. That is pinning 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.479 the dog on its side until the dog stops struggling. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:18.600 So same thing. I mean, you've got a dog that 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.040 is doing something that you don't want it to do, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.440 so you are pinning it. You're physically restraining it in 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:30.160 an aggressive manner until it just basically dies inside. I 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.440 will say that I have have done the dominance down 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.800 before because of a dog fight between my two dogs, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.559 getting the dogs separated, and then you know, pinning one 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.720 down until they calm down. One thing I saw um somewhere. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.320 I don't remember where I saw it, but the um 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.240 Actually i've heard it. I heard it a little while ago. 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.120 The way that you break up a dog fight is 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.040 you grab them by the back legs. Is to rub 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.880 yourself a steak. Right, you just walked through and be like, 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.760 who's a steak? Why fight when you can have steak 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.800 grabbed the back legs? Yeah, that makes sense. Here's the 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.600 thing though, if you've ever been involved in a dog 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.040 fight up close, it's an adrenaline rush. You don't know 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:13.200 quite what to do. Uh, and it's scary. It's like 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.000 super scary. Yeah, well, your brain just becomes totally Like 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.440 my brain becomes clouded. When like Momo starts barking at somebody, 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.640 I'm like, I get all flustered and whatever. A dog 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.359 fight is like it is one of the most flustering, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.679 like clouding experiences you can you can have. I've heard 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.520 through a water on them, I could see that. I 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.480 could also see him just fighting right through the water. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.720 If the fight's bad enough. Yeah, I mean my dog Lucy, 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.679 who isn't with us, gotten to a fight with my 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.440 former co dog, Jake, the pit bull who you know, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.000 my prince justin ended up taking and it was ugly, man, 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.480 and they're both not with us, and they're both really 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.080 sweet dogs, but they looked at each other wrong and 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.000 it was on from the get go, and like Lucy 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.800 took off part of Jake's ear and it was just 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.520 like it was bad. He was scary. You don't know 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.439 what to do, right, And so a person who um 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:06.040 who is who subscribes the dominance theory training says, you 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.880 need to show that both of those dogs that you're 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.880 in charge, and you tell them they're not fighting there, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.680 that they're acting out their misbehaving because they don't understand 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.520 their role. But at the same time, I would be like, well, no, 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.240 it sounds like that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.080 think you're the alpha. They're trying to figure out what 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.920 their position over one another in this packet or just 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.880 dogs being dogs, man, that's another way to look at it. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.600 For sure. You know, like Lucy got attacked at a 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.560 dog park when she was young, and from that day 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.760 forward was you know, if a dog was slightly aggressive, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.240 it was on and scary. Yeah, so we couldn't take 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.880 around other dogs, that's the up shot. Yeah, and they 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.640 would say so. One of the other things I want 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.880 to call out here, rather than waiting, um, when a 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.840 dog acts aggressively, every trainer I've seen on both sides 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.440 says that it's fearful that the dog is actually afraid. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.360 That was for sure Lucy's case. Yeah, so yeah, and 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.800 it's that's why I thought of that, because you know, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.680 she had a negative experience and she was afraid, so 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.960 she would act aggressive in the face of fear. So 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.720 one of the reasons why people criticize dominance training, as 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:17.960 we'll see, is that you're physically and aggressively punishing aggressive behavior. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.760 So you're you're punishing a dog for feeling fearful, which 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:25.000 is going to make it more fearful of whatever it 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.680 is it's afraid of at that moment, which means it's 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.160 actually probably likelier that it will become more aggressive rather 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.840 than it's like a human kid too. You know, if 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.920 you have a kid who has learned to be aggressive, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.760 in your way of discipline them is to hit them, Like, 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.760 what do you think is gonna happen? I don't know, 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.360 I don't know anything about human kids. I only know 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.040 about dogs. They're the same. So back to the uh, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.360 the physical methods of dominance training. There was alpha role 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.920 dominance down. There's the scrub shakes when you grabbed the 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.080 dog's jowls they're scruff with both hands and shake it 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.960 really hard and stare them, stare them in the eyes. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.880 Leash jerk if you're on a on a walk with 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.800 your dog and they're pulling you let them get up 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.400 ahead and then jerk back really really hard. Uh. And 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.680 then using choke collars or pinch collars or shot collars 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:22.360 uh instead of like the more humane gentle leaders what 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.800 they call them. This sort of looks like a muzzle, 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.720 but when the dog pulls, it just sort of pulls 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.960 their nose down and they don't like that. Right. The 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:35.720 that's for the other kind. Physically hurting them when they 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.880 pull on the leash correct or when you jerk the 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.200 leash back right or the choke pinch or shot collars 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.760 are all all dominance or there's psychological methods to um 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.480 staring at the dog until the dog looks away like 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.720 I'm boss, who's gonna blink first? You dog? You? Or 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.040 Growling at a dog or making dog noises to the 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:02.880 dog is another dominance technique. Yeah, psychological dominance. So so 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.240 you've got all these techniques and UM as far as 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.560 dominance training goes. If you employ them in a UM 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.800 consistent manner, eventually your dog is going to figure out 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.480 who's boss. And they the people who subscribe to dominance 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.480 theories say this is actually a gift to your dog, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:26.000 because if your dog is acting improperly, if it's misbehaving, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:31.040 if it's being aggressive, it's asserting itself because it doesn't 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.440 realize that you're the alpha because you haven't asserted yourself 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.280 over your dog, and so somebody's got to be the alpha. 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.560 So this dog is confused and is trying to step up. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.240 So if you assert your dominance over this dog, you 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.600 will reassure that there is an alpha in charge and 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.240 it can just relax and be a good, happy dog. 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.000 That's what people who who subscribe to dominance theory say 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.040 is the whole purpose of dominance theory. Right on the 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.720 other side, you have people saying, no, your dog is 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.080 not just becoming super happy because they know you're in charge. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.640 They're going on into shutdown mode. Basically, because they're afraid 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.600 to do stuff and they're basically living in a state 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.879 of shutdown mode because they're afraid of being alpha rolled 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.680 or barked at or pinned or whatever. Yeah, and so 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.240 that what they'll do is is here's the thing, and 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.320 this is really important to remember. Nobody's saying dominance training 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:33.000 doesn't actually, at least in the short term, curb problem 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:37.000 behavior and dogs. But the way that you're doing is 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.159 actually like breaking the dog's spirit. You're not you're not 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.280 providing it this comfortable position in the household. It's pack 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.719 You're basically just breaking a spirit so that it it 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.440 it doesn't do anything until you tell it to do something. 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.840 It's that shutdown that you were just talking about. And 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.520 people who subscribe to the other way. So no, there's 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.560 a there's a different, better way to do this which 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.560 doesn't involved breaking the dog, which allows the dog to 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.520 lead a happier, healthier life. And and there's um what's 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:12.159 called the least intrusive, minimally aversive list of how to 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:18.199 train a dog and using dominance theory techniques are at 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:23.359 the bottom of this list. Yeah, I think they listed 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:28.879 six things, and that was number six was positive punishment, 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.879 which is a bit of a contradiction in terms I guess, 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.639 but yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, that's what the 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.440 whole list or just the positive punishment, well, just about 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.480 the punishment problem. Yeah, I mean, that's when you're delivering 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.480 what they called an aversive consequence or I guess averse 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.359 consequence to reduce probability that a behavior will occur. Yeah. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.560 So in this in this sense, positive and negative doesn't 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:57.240 necessarily mean like good or bad. It means the introduction 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.520 or the removal of something. So so you can have 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:05.120 a negative reward where something bad is removed in reward 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.040 for the you know, the dog doing the behavior you want. 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.280 And then you also have negative punishment, where you remove 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.080 something good when the dog does something you don't want 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.600 it to do. You also have positive rewards, which is 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.840 basically giving a treat to a dog it does something 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.680 good and you say hey, here you go, or praise 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.639 or something like that. And then positive punishment, which sounds 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.479 like okay, that's an alright kind of punishment, that's actually 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.359 the worst of all of them as far as the 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.640 most professional dog trainers are concerned. That is where you're 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.800 introducing punishment because the dog is doing something. So you're 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.040 yelling at the dog, you're alpha rolling the dog, you're 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:45.399 spanking the dog, you're introducing a punishment as a response 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.560 for an unwanted behavior in this hope to train the dog. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.480 And so they say, well, here's there's the basic problem 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.000 right there with dominance theory and dominance training is that 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.920 eventually you're going to come to positive punishment. It's woe 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.359 even into the fabric of dominance theory. And if you're 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.680 punishing your dog, if you're yelling at your dog or 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.280 outa rolling your dog, you're going to create this shutdown dog. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:14.280 And what's more, it seems that positive punishment, as far 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.399 as training techniques, conditioning operat conditioning techniques go, is the 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.920 least effective of all of those four. And not it's 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.720 not just dog trainers saying that. Even B. F. Skinner himself, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.920 who created a Skinner box and raises poor little barefoot 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.840 electrocuted children, and he said, yes, positive punishment is the 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.440 least effective of all of these. Yeah, they say, the 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.800 number one on that list is health, nutritional and physical factors. 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:44.320 And this is basically setting up your house then being 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.320 assured that your dog is like healthy and well fed 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.159 and like there's nothing physically wrong with a dog. Like 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.080 if your dog is peeing in the house and won't 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.920 get housebroken, they're saying, the first step you should do 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:57.560 is take your dog to a vet and make sure 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.520 it doesn't have like a urinary tract infection. Yeah, I mean, 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.560 let's go over this list, because that's really helpful. There 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.760 was um The Association of Professional Dog Trainers have a 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.359 list of misinterpretations. Urinating the house is one of them. 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.879 A dominance explanation would be like, no, they're peeing on 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.719 your bed, because they're trying to show say like this 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.840 is my territory. It's it's a really paranoid place to 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.639 come from, kind of you know, all the dog, the 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:27.479 dog thinks it's better than me. What is really going on, 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.919 they say, is that it's just the house training has 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:35.680 been inconsistent, Yes, which or you have a urinary tract 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.120 infection or something right, and you would find that out 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.400 by taking that first step, which is taking the dog 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.080 to the vet to make sure there isn't a health 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.400 or medical issue that can solve this problem, because again, 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.720 it all comes down to this problem behavior. Why is 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:49.960 the dog doing it or what do you want the 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.600 dog to do instead right, jumping up on people. This 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.160 is Nico Steele. A dominance explanation would be that that 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.560 she's doing this to assert their height and rank over you, 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.680 like I'm just as big as you are, Whereas what's 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.480 really going on is she wants to lick your face 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.880 and it's fun and she's excited and wants to say hello. Right, 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:12.840 So what you would do is you would say, teach 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.040 your dog to sit um whenever you go to open 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.000 the door something like that, or if your dog is 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:23.600 jumping up um, to to ignore it until it's sitting 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:26.160