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Speaker 1: Everyone says like I could never join a cult, like

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Speaker 1: I would never fall for that, in say, I'm too you.

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Speaker 2: Would.

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Speaker 3: I really love friendly groups. I love cooking.

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Speaker 4: I love it when people are like trying to help

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Speaker 4: each other actualize their dreams. And I like it when

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Speaker 4: people like are dedicated to each other. And a lot

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Speaker 4: of times cults are like non violent, except I don't

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Speaker 4: like having to be naked in a group of people,

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Speaker 4: and I don't like having to do like oral sex

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Speaker 4: to like the head of the cults.

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Speaker 2: That is, that's called bylaws.

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Speaker 5: There's usually some guy, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to SNAPO, the show about history's greatest screw ups.

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Speaker 1: I'm at Helms, and more specifically, this is a show

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Speaker 1: where we look at mishaps from history and wonder, oh,

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Speaker 1: what what does this say about humanity? And I always

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Speaker 1: bring along a very exciting guest. Today I'm joined by

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Speaker 1: one of my dear friends. She's an actress, a writer,

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Speaker 1: a comedian. She's been in so many incredible shows and

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Speaker 1: movies like Its Borderline Annoying, just to name a few.

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Speaker 1: Obvious child Zootopia Gifted Everything everywhere, all at once, and

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Speaker 1: Emmy nominee for Dying for Sex with Michelle Williams, an

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Speaker 1: Oscar nominee for Marcel Michelle.

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Speaker 2: She's the author of two fabulous.

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Speaker 1: Books, Little Weirds and Life Form, and she recently launched

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Speaker 1: her own podcast called I Need You Guys with Gabe

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Speaker 1: Leadman and Max Silvestri. Please welcome, be Amazing. Jenny Slate, Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: ed Hello. We were neighbors for a short time here

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. I've known you her for a long

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Speaker 1: long time, but then at some point in that you

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Speaker 1: also were our neighbor, and my family began to call

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Speaker 1: U Kramer because because of your wacky interests.

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Speaker 4: And also because it was like there wasn't a lot

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Speaker 4: keeping me out, you know, like Kramer's always kind of

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Speaker 4: busting through the door with some sort of really interesting concept.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure I had those interesting concepts, but I

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Speaker 4: was coming through the door with big, you know, big

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Speaker 4: energy in my hair and really coming over a lot.

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Speaker 1: And it was a full open door policy for Kram

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Speaker 1: or Slate to just come on in whenever she wanted.

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Speaker 2: I missed those days.

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Speaker 4: I do too, I really do, and I will say

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Speaker 4: that I feel that we're making up for it. As

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Speaker 4: we were talking about earlier, but the fact that we

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Speaker 4: now have become people who celebrate Thanksgiving together, not in

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles at all, but it's just like something we

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Speaker 4: do and it's really I love it so much.

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Speaker 3: I just love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: we won't invite the world into our too deeply into

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Speaker 1: our private lives. But I'm so excited for your podcast

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Speaker 1: with Gabe and Max, who I also know and a door. Yes,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's a very crowded space now. I'm now in

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Speaker 1: the fourth season of Snafu. I'm like trying to box

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Speaker 1: out everyone I can from also joining the podcast space

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Speaker 1: because we need all the listeners we can get. So

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? You're horning in on this format.

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Speaker 1: But also congratulations and I'm excited for you.

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Speaker 2: And what is it.

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Speaker 4: We we have a joke that it's like it's only

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Speaker 4: it took us only sixteen years to finally do a podcast.

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Speaker 3: It just took us so long.

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Speaker 4: Like every other comedian in the world has had a

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Speaker 4: podcast for many years now, and we just like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, what can I say. We like to chill,

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Speaker 4: but Gabe and Max and I I don't know, fifteen

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Speaker 4: years ago really started a stand up show in New York.

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Speaker 3: First it was in Manhattan at Rafifi.

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Speaker 4: In the East Village, and then it was in Williamsburg,

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Speaker 4: and we finally got our act together to do what

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Speaker 4: we kind of do on stage just on a podcast,

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Speaker 4: which is that like on in our stand up show.

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Speaker 4: We always started the stand up show with a Q

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Speaker 4: and A like before anyone had any questions about our material.

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Speaker 3: We would just ask random questions and it was really fun.

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Speaker 4: And so now basically our podcast is like it's kind

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Speaker 4: of like making our group chat live. It's called I

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Speaker 4: Need You guys, because we don't live in the same

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Speaker 4: places anymore and we still talk every day and we

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Speaker 4: need each other. So we'll bring questions to each other

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Speaker 4: about our lives and then we have a friend. Usually

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Speaker 4: it's a comedian come and answer, like an etiquette etiquette etiquette.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I'm not reading copy.

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Speaker 4: I don't need to, you know, miss miss misspeak, like

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Speaker 4: a question.

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Speaker 3: About etiquette at a quite edi.

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Speaker 1: Quite so, just so our listeners know this podcast is out,

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Speaker 1: it is you can you can get into it right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It's really it's kind of like sitting at a dinner

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Speaker 4: table with friends.

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Speaker 3: It's just a nice, easy, funny easy listen.

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Speaker 2: All right, are you ready to snap woo?

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Speaker 3: I'm ready to snaph.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. We're going to jump into this.

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Speaker 1: We're going to adventure all the way back to seventeen

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Speaker 1: ninety one. It was a tough year to be a

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Speaker 1: French guy named Louis, especially if you were Louis the sixteenth,

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Speaker 1: the French King. So today's topic is the French Revolution.

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Speaker 1: Now I'd love to cover the whole thing, but that

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Speaker 1: would take at least ten podcasts and like a gallon

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Speaker 1: of espresso and a PhD in guillotine technology. So instead,

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Speaker 1: we're going to just zoom in on this one really

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Speaker 1: tiny but absolutely bonkers episode within the French Revolution, the

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Speaker 1: Royal escape attempt that went spectacularly wrong. It's sneaky, it

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Speaker 1: is suspenseful, and it turned out to be a massive

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Speaker 1: turning point in the entire revolution.

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Speaker 2: This is the flight to Vahren. Are you ready?

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Speaker 4: Hell?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Man?

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Speaker 4: This is so cool. Yeah, expecting to learn so much.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I love French stuff.

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Speaker 2: What is it you're like about French stuff?

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Speaker 3: I love all the jewels that I just stole from

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Speaker 3: the Louver. I love the crown. I got.

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Speaker 4: I super bummed that I dropped out of the crown,

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Speaker 4: but I love like the necklaces and stuff.

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Speaker 1: All Right, A quick crash course on the French Revolution

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Speaker 1: before we get to our main event here. It all

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Speaker 1: started because France was basically broke. The peasants were starving,

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Speaker 1: and the monarchy was still out there throwing lavish parties.

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Speaker 1: Picture an episode of Succession where they all go to

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Speaker 1: a rave and powdered wigs. So the French people were

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Speaker 1: just finally like enough, this is enough, and they stormed

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Speaker 1: the bast deal and they decided maybe government shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: run exclusively by rich douchebags.

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Speaker 2: Good good policy.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that have any rich douchebags like historically

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Speaker 1: have they have any of them nailed it?

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Speaker 3: Not that I can.

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Speaker 4: I can currently think of. No one's coming to mind

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Speaker 4: right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's rough. It's rough out there for the populations

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Speaker 2: run by rich.

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Speaker 3: Duchemann, it's not great.

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Speaker 2: We'll cut to a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Years later and now, and the revolutionaries have taken power

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Speaker 1: and King Louis the sixteenth, Marie Antoinette and their kids

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Speaker 1: are basically grounded. They're under house arrest, in the Tuiiri

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Speaker 1: Palace in the heart of Paris, and the revolutionaries are

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Speaker 1: frantically trying to reinvent their entire system of government, which

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Speaker 1: is no small task. Marie Antoinette, of course famous for

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Speaker 1: the phrase let them eat cake, darn it, which is

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Speaker 1: a very rude thing to say when people are starving

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Speaker 1: and they can't get can't get bread.

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Speaker 3: I know, but I don't think she said that.

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Speaker 2: She didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I read this book that says she did not say that.

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Speaker 3: You know, she didn't say that.

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Speaker 2: She didn't say it.

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Speaker 3: Yo, she didn't say that.

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Speaker 4: If you're gonna come at me like that, like, she

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Speaker 4: did not say that, like check check your fat.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: I was going to all smarty pants and be like,

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Speaker 1: but she did it, and you jumped on that.

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Speaker 2: And kudos to you for knowing that.

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Speaker 1: It originally appeared in Jean Jacques Rousseau's Confessions, which he

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Speaker 1: wrote in seventeen sixty six. Marie Antoinette was ten years

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Speaker 1: old and she was living in Austria, so obviously, so

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Speaker 1: it's early seventeen ninety one. This is before the revolution

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Speaker 1: had gone full just like guillotine chopping everybody's heads off,

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Speaker 1: and France is now experimenting with this brand new idea,

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Speaker 1: the constitutional monarchy, where the king will share power with

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Speaker 1: the population. And spoiler alert, King Louis did not like this.

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Speaker 1: He was not a fan. The people were rising up

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Speaker 1: and he was feeling very threatened by all of this.

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Speaker 1: So by June of that year, the revolutionaries were finishing

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Speaker 1: up their shiny new constitution codifying all of this, and

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Speaker 1: King Louis, ever the people pleaser, was out there pretending

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Speaker 1: to be totally chill about it. He was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's have parliament run things. I'll just be like a figurehead,

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Speaker 1: a decorative monarch, a bit of a like just a

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Speaker 1: human chandelier, if you will, hanging over over France. And this,

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Speaker 1: of course is right after the actual American Revolution, and

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Speaker 1: it does it just raises I don't know, it raises

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Speaker 1: this interesting philosophical question for me, Like, oppressed people very

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Speaker 1: often rise up at a certain they reach a breaking

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Speaker 1: point and they rise up, and then they either choose,

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Speaker 1: as the sort of American Revolution and the French revolution,

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Speaker 1: that option was democracy or like a representative government like

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Speaker 1: down with these bully kings, or the other option is

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Speaker 1: an oppressed population will sort of like rise up and

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Speaker 1: elevate a strong man who is essentially a cam of sorts,

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Speaker 1: And why do you think that happens? I think the

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Speaker 1: strong man version is actually more common, and it speaks

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Speaker 1: to like something in the human condition or we just

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Speaker 1: as free.

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Speaker 2: I'm too messy? Is it too complicated or too scary?

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Speaker 3: You know what I think it is? I mean not

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Speaker 3: to be like so self.

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Speaker 4: Serious, but I actually think it has to do with

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Speaker 4: like fear and trauma. The American Revolution, It's like a

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Speaker 4: lot of those people were like wealthy landowners who were

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Speaker 4: like we don't want King George, you know, like we

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Speaker 4: want to do our own thing. They weren't really like

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Speaker 4: we the people rising up, like they were like wealthy,

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Speaker 4: you know, and and and then they they took like

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Speaker 4: their education and their wealth and they like made you know,

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Speaker 4: a democracy. But like if you're just like traumatized and

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Speaker 4: frightened and you you're starving, like of course you're going

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Speaker 4: to be like bada and just like replace a bad

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Speaker 4: dad with what seems like a good dad, like you know,

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Speaker 4: just one thing out of time, let's just get this

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Speaker 4: guy or you know, I guess occasionally a lady, but

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Speaker 4: it's kind of all it's like always the man, get

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Speaker 4: this guy out of here, and like, I think, I

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Speaker 4: think new Dad is actually going to be like nice Dad.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. That's that's my take on it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I'm a professional clown, not a historian.

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Speaker 3: It's just how I feel.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a very very sharp take. Well, well

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Speaker 2: said King Louis.

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Speaker 1: At this point, he's he's kind of kind of freaking out,

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Speaker 1: and he's kind of stuck in the middle, pretending everything's

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Speaker 1: fine and pretending like he has value and has power,

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Speaker 1: but he's he's seeing it all slip away. So he

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Speaker 1: and and he's feeling threatened. Also, he's feeling like his

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Speaker 1: life and his family are very much in danger now

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Speaker 1: in this in the middle of Paris. So he hatches

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Speaker 1: this plan. They're going to slip out of Paris. They're

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Speaker 1: going to meet up with loyal troops near the border

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Speaker 1: and stage a royal comeback, but first they must escape Paris.

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Speaker 2: And thus begins the flight to Varen.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Okay, can I just ask, like, during this time

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Speaker 4: when he's stuck in, when they're stuck in there, is

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Speaker 4: he still you know, having like three glazed gooses a day,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like he's still having those

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Speaker 4: like crazy elaborate meals and wearing the stuff, just like

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Speaker 4: doing all that stuff. Is he still just like all

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Speaker 4: procedures are still those like three hour baths or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, a three hour bath with three glazed gooses. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my sense of it, And keep in mind, I'm very

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Speaker 1: much falling into the amateur historian category, but my sense

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Speaker 1: of it is that this is a scaled back version

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Speaker 1: of that. So in Versailles it was a mess, Like

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Speaker 1: it was so decadent, the parties, all of the insanity

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Speaker 1: leading up to this, right, there had been protest march

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Speaker 1: where they actually grabbed the royal family and marched them

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Speaker 1: to Paris. And this was a very humbling experience. And

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Speaker 1: so yes, they are still in a palace, they're still

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Speaker 1: technically royalty. They're still trying to hash out this shared

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Speaker 1: leadership idea, the constitutional monarchy, so they're still acting like

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Speaker 1: a king and queen. And so I do think there

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Speaker 1: are glazed gooses in the mix, and there are crowns

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Speaker 1: and fancy attire, but it's not quite what it was

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Speaker 1: very recently in Versailles. They've been humbled and they're now scared.

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Speaker 3: Okay, got it.

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Speaker 1: So the plan they hatch is quite bold. It's like

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Speaker 1: total cloak and dagger stuff. Louis was planned to be

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Speaker 1: disguised as a valet, Marie as a governess, and they

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Speaker 1: would they were posing as the entourage of this fake

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Speaker 1: Russian baron and they would slip out of Paris in

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Speaker 1: the dark of night, then of course link up with

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Speaker 1: their loyal troops and spark a royal comeback. This is

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Speaker 1: in theory a flawless plan, but in reality it turned

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Speaker 1: into a train wreck or as we will soon see,

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Speaker 1: a carriage wreck of sorts. This elaborate plan, it's very

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Speaker 1: like I said, it's cloak and daggery. It starts to

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Speaker 1: fall apart immediately. The palace made notice the family packing,

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Speaker 1: and then it starts asking weird questions like what's going on.

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Speaker 1: They have that detachment from reality where they still feel

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Speaker 1: like they have to bring like crazy amounts of royal

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Speaker 1: luggage and.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that situation where you're like so rich,

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Speaker 4: you don't know anything. It's like, just get out of here, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: just don't pack a trunk. You don't need your like

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Speaker 4: silver bugle or whatever, and like all your pantaloons, like,

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Speaker 4: just get out.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the silver bugle might come in handy.

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Speaker 3: You don't get a bed pad, you don't get it.

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Speaker 3: What do they call it? A little the thing that

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Speaker 3: you don't get.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. You would have been such a

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Speaker 2: better Marie Antoinette.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: This delays them like to a day or two.

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Speaker 1: And there are as part of the plan, of course,

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Speaker 1: there are loyal soldiers, you know, soldiers that are still

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Speaker 1: loyal to the king that are supposed to meet up

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Speaker 1: with them along the route, and they've been stationed in

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Speaker 1: these villages. But when the king isn't showing up, they're

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Speaker 1: just these soldiers in these towns, and that's raising questions.

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Speaker 1: The peasantry is getting real antsy and like what are

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Speaker 1: all these soldiers doing here? This does not feel chill.

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Speaker 1: It kind of feels like the National Guard like marching

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Speaker 1: into like a normal city, like what people People are

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Speaker 1: excited and it upsets people.

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Speaker 4: That would be really disconcerting and wrong and feel like

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Speaker 4: maybe it's illegal or waiting for a judge to.

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Speaker 1: Say I mean yeah, so that's the same vibe going

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Speaker 1: on in in these villages, and that wasn't the only delay.

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Speaker 1: So it's finally time to ski daddle, and now the

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Speaker 1: commander of the Palace guard has decided it's the perfect

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Speaker 1: time for like an hour's long chit chat with the king.

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Speaker 1: Fun fact, the commander of the guards was none other.

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Speaker 2: Than the Marquis de la Fayette, who.

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Speaker 1: Played a huge role in the American Revolution and now

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Speaker 1: he's back home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah this is from Hamilton.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I haven't actually seen Hamilton, but I

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Speaker 4: guess I should know that just because of like history.

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Speaker 3: I don't. It's I don't. I just I don't. I

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Speaker 3: don't go to a lot of plays.

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Speaker 2: This is over. This is over.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know, I like, I don't know why

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Speaker 4: I admit it that. I just I swear to God,

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Speaker 4: like I haven't. I don't think I've ever been to

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Speaker 4: a Broadway.

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Speaker 2: Are you serious? I'm taking it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I was supposed to go see Waiting for GOODO

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Speaker 4: like two weeks ago, and our daughter got sick.

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Speaker 3: So we didn't.

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Speaker 2: So you're still waiting to see Waiting for GOODO.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you're still him.

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know if they found him.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I just like for a while when

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Speaker 4: I lived in New York and I was a student.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have enough, like I don't have the extra.

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Speaker 2: Money to go to Broadway, and then time.

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Speaker 3: I just gave up, and then I don't know anyway.

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Speaker 1: The Marquisa Lafayette is played masterfully by Dovey Diggs.

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Speaker 3: Oh cool.

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Speaker 1: The Marquisa Lafyette is a fascinating he deserves his own podcast.

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Speaker 1: He like basically went to America and was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: George Washington, I'm here to help. I just think your

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Speaker 1: whole cause is awesome. He was a major force in

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Speaker 1: the American Revolution. Then he went back to France and

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Speaker 1: now he's sympathetic with the revolutionaries in France, and he's

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Speaker 1: been put in charge of keeping an eye on King Louis,

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Speaker 1: And of course they have a very professional but fraught

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Speaker 1: relationship because he's guarding him essentially from the mobs, but

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Speaker 1: also from escaping or from so anyway, they have a

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Speaker 1: long chat, but it delays the escape even further. Now,

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Speaker 1: despite all the delays, King Louis is still rare and

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Speaker 1: to go, and they sneak out down a back staircase

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Speaker 1: of the palace and here's where just the sort of

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Speaker 1: like cartoon mistape.

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Speaker 3: He missed us.

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Speaker 1: Begin like this is where it becomes like Keystone cops.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: So the original had called for fast carriages, right, they

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Speaker 1: would get into like a little clump of carriages and

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Speaker 1: be on their way. But this did not sit well

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Speaker 1: with Marie Antoinette. She wanted to keep the family together,

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Speaker 1: which is understandable. If they got separated it could get scary.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately this also changed the entire journey because they

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Speaker 1: wound up in this enormous carriage. So the coach itself

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Speaker 1: was a loaner from Axel von Farson. The younger who

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Speaker 1: happened to be this is debated, but many think he

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Speaker 1: was actually Marie Antoinette's dashing Swedish lover. What is documented

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Speaker 1: is he sent her tons of flowers over the years.

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Speaker 1: We have an artistic rendering of Axle here. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a gander at this this guy.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, look at those peepers. Yeah right, I mean

358
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Speaker 3: what not sure? I'm not sure what I think.

359
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Speaker 4: The person that painted his picture did a pretty weird job.

360
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Speaker 4: It looks like he looks like you know when sometimes

361
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Speaker 4: people wear those George Washington masks, like like they have

362
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Speaker 4: George Washington. You have your own face on the bottom,

363
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 4: and then you like put George Washington over your like

364
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,959
Speaker 4: you know where a raccoon mask would be.

365
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Speaker 3: Those look like two different faces.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right.

367
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Speaker 1: But what I do love about this he's so smug,

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Speaker 1: Like he's like so smarmy and like you can get

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Speaker 1: like the sex appeal of someone like that.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you could.

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Speaker 2: Get lost in those eyebrows.

372
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Speaker 4: That's a look of placid, perverted, deliberate entitlement.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he just does not care.

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Speaker 1: This carriage was massive and extremely conspicuous. One historian called

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Speaker 1: the paint job quite eye catching, yellow and black or golden,

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Speaker 1: and there were three bodyguards also dressed in jaunty clothes. Basically,

377
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Speaker 1: in today's terms, this would be like a limousine painted

378
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Speaker 1: like a bumblebee. This is kind of a picture. On

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Speaker 1: top of the pain job, that the carriage itself was

380
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Speaker 1: so heavy that it required frequent stops to change horses.

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Speaker 1: And this is this is where King Louis got himself

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Speaker 1: into even more trouble because King Louie believed that the

383
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Speaker 1: people of Paris obviously were against him, the mobs were rallying,

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Speaker 1: but he still thought that the country folk that people

385
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Speaker 1: out in the countryside were royalists and supported him, so

386
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Speaker 1: he would actually get out and start chatting people up

387
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Speaker 1: and just kind of like being totally transparent.

388
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Speaker 2: Like was up, everybody, it's your king, high five. Oh

389
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Speaker 2: this was not smart.

390
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Speaker 1: And even when they were rolling along, apparently he would

391
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Speaker 1: like hang his head out the carriage window and just

392
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Speaker 1: be like, what's up, it's me your fabulous dream. He

393
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Speaker 1: kind of felt like he was the Beatles in the sixties.

394
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Speaker 1: And I'm just I just I don't know if this

395
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Speaker 1: was savvy. This feels like ego getting in the way

396
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Speaker 1: of good judgment.

397
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Speaker 4: USh, what a dumb dumb like his whoever were his

398
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Speaker 4: like devoted handlers must have just been like, oh my god,

399
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 4: just try to keep him inside the thing. Yeah, Like,

400
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 4: kid doesn't get it. He doesn't really get it, you know.

401
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Speaker 1: I think there is something like when we see that

402
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: a lot of these tech titans today, you know that

403
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: that have so much wealth and so much power and

404
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: access there, does their behavior does start to betray Like

405
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: you don't really know what's going on in the world,

406
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: and you don't even really know how people behave anymore,

407
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: Like you're clearly detached from a sense of like normal

408
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: decorum or just normal kind of like people interface.

409
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like no sense of like what sort of

410
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 4: on the ground risk looks like like in a social

411
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 4: slash relational way, it's like, hey, whoa like a lot

412
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,239
Speaker 4: of us would not do that. You shouldn't do that

413
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 4: thing that you just did, really weird touch.

414
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Speaker 1: The royal family was just to be a little more specific,

415
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: they were heading to mont medi, which is a fortress

416
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: town near today's Belgium, and that is where Louis was

417
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: hoping to regroup and then negotiate safely with the French

418
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 1: National Assembly. But when they reached their first rendezvous point

419
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: to meet up with loyal soldiers who would hopefully escort them,

420
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: no one was there, of course, because they had waited

421
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 1: and waited and the things had gotten weird with the villagers,

422
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: and the soldiers had left definitely giving like Griswold family

423
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: arriving at wally World vibes just like nothing, there's nothing there,

424
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: just maybe John Candy in a security guard outfit and

425
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: that's all you get. These soldiers that all figure the

426
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: plan was off and they didn't want to hang around

427
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 1: and like raise more friction with all these villagers and

428
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: so they'd just taken off. I personally don't blame them.

429
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: That feels like they were in a very awkward position.

430
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, this giant bumblebee carriage had to stop and

431
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: change horses yet again. And of course Louie is out

432
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: peacocking around and naturally he's spotted by people who are

433
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: recognizing him, and unfortunately he's also spotted by.

434
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Speaker 2: People who don't actually support him.

435
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: Wow, and they're bold, right, Like, I bet they're really

436
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 4: really angry.

437
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: Also, where are they getting the horses?

438
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: Like?

439
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: Where are they? Where are the horse people leave?

440
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 4: Yes, because it's like if the soldiers left, Like it's

441
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 4: super weird for the horse reinforcements to stay.

442
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: Well, but horse reinforcement people they're not going to raise

443
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: any eyebrows, Like that's just part of eighteenth century logistics, right,

444
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: there's just always horses and people like taking care of horses.

445
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 3: They're totally they're flush with horses.

446
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: I get it, But it's just weird that if they're

447
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: all on the same operation, why can't a horse person

448
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 4: be like, wait, wait, I know you guys, I feel

449
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 4: uncomfortable here, but just stay because he is coming, Like.

450
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: Or did they not? I mean know, that they were

451
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: all part of something.

452
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: Well, here's another thing I don't know about horse logistics. Yeah,

453
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: if if you pre plan all your horse changes, or

454
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: if it's more like a gas station and you just

455
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: stop and you're like, hey, can we trade you these

456
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: like travel horses for your fresh horses?

457
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: I bet it was that. Yeah.

458
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 4: I bet they're just going being like, give me a

459
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 4: gi give me the horse, like give it, give me

460
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: your horse right now. We need it.

461
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: We can't say why.

462
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 4: But then the king would be like popping out of

463
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: that royal.

464
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 3: Like Rolly Polly popping out with mustard on his.

465
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: Face in there.

466
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: Geez, get back in the bumblebee, louis all right.

467
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: Well, one of the people who recognized them was a

468
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: postman who was furious that the king was escaping and

469
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: jumped on his horse and dashed ahead of the carriage

470
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: to the town of Varenn, which is only thirty miles

471
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: from their final destination of Malmetti. It's so close. This

472
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: guy got to Varenn ahead of them. He warned the town,

473
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: and of course, so when the carriage rolled in u

474
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: there was a roadblock and all of the local officials

475
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: and guardsmen. They were out to snag the king. Oh

476
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: and they surrounded the carriage and the royal escape was over?

477
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 3: Oh my god?

478
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 4: And were they dressed as a governess and a what

479
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 4: was the other guy was? What was the king going

480
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 4: to be?

481
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: He was going to be a valet, But it seems

482
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: like he had a real hard time with that role,

483
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: Like not only did he have no idea how a

484
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: valet should be, a he probably was like these clothes

485
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: are very uncomfortable.

486
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, can I just wear my royal robe?

487
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: Just? I mean, just, I mean, I'll still pretend to

488
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: be a vout if anyone asks me, but I just

489
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: need to be comfortable.

490
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: Comfortable. Yeah.

491
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 4: Wow, it's so stressful that they went in that big carriage.

492
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: It does reek of just a total misunderstanding, a misreading,

493
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: a sort of like like I'm with you, like going

494
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: back to just the prep, like don't pack.

495
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: Just by the way.

496
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: They're going to Austria, which is where Marie Antoinette is from.

497
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: Her brother is the king of Austria, so like they're

498
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: gonna be fine, just get there.

499
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense, but you're right that it

500
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 4: does make sense when it's like they're.

501
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: Really they're feeling fear, a fear.

502
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 4: That feels serious and that they're probably not used to feeling,

503
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 4: but they can't exactly make them like sort of like

504
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: cognitive leap, like the understanding to realize that that fear

505
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: is also because a context has completely changed and they're

506
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: still like operating in the old context. And that is

507
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: really that's kind of like a lesson for all of us.

508
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 4: It's like you actually just have to do a bunch

509
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 4: of really new stuff, like just drop it and go, yeah,

510
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 4: don't do any of your old stuff.

511
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: Oh, you are so on point, and you're actually like

512
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: giving me like terror chills right now because I keep

513
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: having this feeling that like America is changing and it

514
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: won't ever change back. It's not gonna be chill. We're

515
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: in this weird h Yeah, it feels like the storm

516
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: clouds are gathering and they're just not going to go

517
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: away totally.

518
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 4: And also I mean not to get to become too

519
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 4: much of a bummer, but like that is the story

520
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 4: of like half of my Like my grandmother was a

521
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: Holocaust survivor because her family literally did leave Paris with

522
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 4: nothing and went in like hid in the woods for years.

523
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: But half of the family, like didn't do that because

524
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 4: it's like in what when you're like you're just like

525
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 4: middle class in Paris, like living in an apartment and

526
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: you have a new couch and you run like a

527
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 4: pocket book and wallet and hat business. Like, the idea

528
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: that your life would change that much it just doesn't

529
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 4: feel reasonable.

530
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: It's like, it's really hard to.

531
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 4: Take action in a way that is completely uncharacteristic or

532
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 4: disconnected from from everything that you've seen in life, even

533
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 4: if you've seen it happen to other people.

534
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, oh man, it's so hard to.

535
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 3: Compare on a bumblebee carriage or whatever, you know.

536
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: And if your life is so gilded as as as

537
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: a royal person, like, it's that changes even harder. It's

538
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: even it's so much more dramatic feeling, oh but all

539
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: the more necessary.

540
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: All right, So now this is interesting.

541
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: They had they had at least taken the step of

542
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: putting together some false papers in case they were stopped

543
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: like this, so they did have past like passports, et cetera.

544
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: But there's a final twist, which is that the officials,

545
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: because of course they didn't this was pre photography, like

546
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: they didn't they couldn't like positively I d the king

547
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: unless there was someone that they that they could verify

548
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: knew the king. There was one instance of somebody sort

549
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: of seeing his likeness on a piece of money, I believe,

550
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: a coin, and that was sort of a hint, like

551
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: we think, we think it's the king because he resembles

552
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: the you know, this piece of money. Eventually they got

553
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: someone they they knew had visited the king, and I

554
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: believe this person was a loyalist to the king. But

555
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: they brought him in too positively, I d and uh,

556
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: you know, you would think this guy showing up would

557
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: would be if he liked the king, he'd be.

558
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: Like, oh, I don't know, I don't know, maybe maybe

559
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: it's not the king.

560
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: But when but when they brought him in, he was

561
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: so overcome by seeing the king in the flesh that

562
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: he actually bowed down on one knee and immediately gave

563
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: it away. So they were like, yep, we got him,

564
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: we got the king. He's positively idd darn it. The irony,

565
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: of course, being that this is the treatment he'd been

566
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: hoping for from all of us, right from all the

567
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: country folk, the whole time.

568
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: But this is game over, this is it? And is

569
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: this like the end. So when the royal.

570
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: Family was caught in varn they were held until revolutionary

571
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: soldiers arrived to drag them back to Paris. Descriptions of

572
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: their return to the city of Paris are very dramatic.

573
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: Apparently it was just dead silent, like the mobs were out,

574
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: but it was dead silent. I believe Ropespierre had warned everyone,

575
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: if you cheer for the king, you'll be punished, or

576
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: if you jeer or ridicule the king, you will also

577
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: be punished. So people were.

578
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: Were dead quiet, which is spooky, right.

579
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

580
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 4: First of all, there's nothing worse, I think than the

581
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 4: silent treatment. It is such an insane power grab. It's

582
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 4: absolutely so humiliating and obviously impossible to decipher except for

583
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: that something is wrong. And then to have everybody like

584
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 4: all of Paris, all of Paris.

585
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: You're rolling into town. Yeah, it's just like are you

586
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: looking out the way?

587
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 4: They're like, hi, So we're sorry, We're just gonna shuffle

588
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 4: forward a bit, We're gonna switch back.

589
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: Are you guys, Are you guys mad?

590
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 4: Or like? And it's such a such a message of control,

591
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: like if you're you know, trying to say like you know,

592
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 4: the power should belong to the people, and the people

593
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: who are so impassioned are able to also control themselves

594
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 4: and agree amongst themselves so much that they're all deadly

595
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 4: still and quiet. That is that's extraordinary.

596
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: It is. It's sad.

597
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: It's a major move.

598
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: I don't think we'd be able to do that right

599
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 4: now in ours purerect in our realm.

600
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: A group of royal supporters at this point were trying

601
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: to kind of like spin the story to help the

602
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: king save face, and they came up with this story

603
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: that he'd been kidnapped by sinister foreign agents who actually

604
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: wanted to invade France.

605
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: Not bad, you know, I mean, it doesn't seem like

606
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: that's what happened.

607
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a good try.

608
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: It doesn't really pass the smell test because the biggest

609
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: problem with the foreigners kidnapped the poor king story is

610
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: that before they left the palace, the King Louis had

611
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: written a manifesto of sorts. He had said that all

612
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: of his earlier agreements with the National Assembly that supported

613
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: the Constitution, that all of that stuff was a lie,

614
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: and that he had really just been buying time while

615
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: he planned to retake the throne. And retake the entry

616
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: from the revolutionary government. So he basically like laid out all,

617
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: you know, thinking that he would be Ye, well, he

618
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: thought he thought he was escaping, and so he basically

619
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: was leaving his his kind of like thoughts behind so

620
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: that people would understand and that hopefully maybe he might

621
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: rally some support, I guess, And he thought he would

622
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: be coming back from a from a more from a

623
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: position of power to say like, hey, I'm here, it's time.

624
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: To negotiate with me.

625
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: We're going to restore the monarchy, right, But but he

626
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: actually was just kind of humiliated, and this turned out

627
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: to be one of the primary pieces of evidence against

628
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: him at trial.

629
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: Look, you got to keep your paperwork straight.

630
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 4: You got to you gotta really think about when you're

631
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: going to show your papers.

632
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: This was a huge turning point in the revolution because

633
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: to the extent that there was a belief that they

634
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: could make this constitutional monarchy work and that they could

635
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: sort of share power between a figurehead monarch and representatives

636
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: of the people.

637
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: This escape attempt.

638
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: Just blew that out of the water, and all of

639
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, now the revolutionaries are furious at the monarchy.

640
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: They're furious at the king, and they want him, they

641
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: want him gone, and the monarchy was fully abolished by

642
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: the revolutionary government in seventeen ninety two. All of this,

643
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: the escape attempt, and the letter that he'd left behind,

644
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: were all used against him as evidence at trial, and

645
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: he was of course sentenced to death.

646
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: Oh man, what do you think was that fair?

647
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: I don't know.

648
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 4: The guillotine is really really gross, really really gross.

649
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, not my choice, not my choice, death penalty.

650
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: The interesting thing the guillotine is that it was invented

651
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: by someone opposed to the death penalty, and because their

652
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: main beef with the death penalty is how inhumane it is.

653
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: And the thought was that the guillotine was the most

654
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: humane way to kill someone because it's so clean and fast, right,

655
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, it's so gruesome, right, It's.

656
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: Just so scary.

657
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 4: It's not like whoever that executioner was was like the

658
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 4: Temple Grand Ins of France or whatever. He wasn't the

659
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 4: Temple grand in France, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

660
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 4: you know, there's there's something also about the the beheading

661
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 4: of Marie Antoinette that has always like made me feel

662
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: maybe it's just all ladies that get beheaded like in

663
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 4: history that I know about, which is like genuinely too.

664
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 4: It's like Anne Bolin and Marie Antoinette and I'm just like, oh,

665
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 4: you didn't have to do that.

666
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like.

667
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 4: Literally or somewhere else. Get her out of here, you know.

668
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: If you don't like her, like I don't.

669
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 3: Well it brace my heart.

670
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is upsetting.

671
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: I think even like wherever you stand on the death

672
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: penalty thing, like did they deserve that in this moment?

673
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: But it was I think for the revolutionaries such a

674
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: symbolic gesture of like death to not just these particular people,

675
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: it was death to monarchy as a concept. Yeah, we are,

676
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: we are removing this and of course we're just like

677
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: nixing the bloodline. We're making it permanent. Death is permanent.

678
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: And yeah it's but it's grizzly, and this is not

679
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: me defending it. I'm this is me just trying to

680
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: get into the heads of these of the revolutionaries. Of course,

681
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,479
Speaker 1: it also is a very slippery slope because this red

682
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: to led to Robespiere's infamous Reign of Terror, where thousands

683
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: of people were just like unceremoniously beheaded.

684
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: Well that's what I was going to say is like

685
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 4: you do send a signal that this is possible if

686
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 4: you go against what's happening. Like first it's like you

687
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 4: behead the monarchy, and I get that, but then it's

688
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 4: like this thing that we did is so extreme and

689
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 4: it has to hold that if anybody even seems like

690
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 4: they're not going to be with it, there, they also

691
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 4: have to get their heads chopped off, and that is.

692
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: Not you know the way I mean.

693
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 4: This morning, I was actually listening to Ken Burns talk

694
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 4: about his new documentary about the Revolutionary War, and like

695
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 4: he was like, a country is born in violence, but like, eh,

696
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 4: after a while, there's got to be another system that

697
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 4: that steps up, like a you know, system of rule

698
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 4: of law and that kind of thing.

699
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: I think.

700
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, don't we have a good

701
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: grasp on like what works best?

702
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think we do.

703
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: Isn't the data in?

704
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 4: I think the data actually is in. And then there's

705
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: like five guys who are like, well, we don't, well,

706
00:37:52,280 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 4: let me do my own research. Like the idea that

707
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 4: I would ever quote unquote do my own research, like

708
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 4: I don't know how to do that. You know, I

709
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 4: don't think I'm an idiot, But I'm not like a

710
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: scientist or a politician, like I don't know, I don't know,

711
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 4: you know, I'd love to trust the experts.

712
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 2: Actually, there's one last little epilogue here.

713
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: This is kind of fun, a little post credit scene,

714
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: if you will, because I know you're curious about the

715
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: last big old danglin thread here. What happened to our

716
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: Swedish boy toy axel Von person for sure?

717
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well he himself was killed.

718
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: By an angry mob when he was mistakenly accused of

719
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: poisoning the Swedish prince in eighteen ten.

720
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 3: Wow.

721
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, angry mobs were a real big deal at

722
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: this point.

723
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: They're really scary.

724
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 4: I mean, we had one recently in our nation. It's scary. Yeah,

725
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: they're scary.

726
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: They don't generally make good decisions. No.

727
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: I read somewhere a quote I wish I could remember

728
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: who to attributed to the intelligence of a mob is

729
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: that of the dumbest person in the mob. So like

730
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: the behavior, like an entire mob behaves as the dumbest

731
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: person in the mob.

732
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 3: Actually, I was just thinking about like it.

733
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 4: For some reason, Americans were able to be totally silent

734
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: while someone rolled through town that they didn't like that,

735
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 4: Like when I said we'd never be able to do it,

736
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: Like I was fully imagining myself in the in the

737
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 4: silent crowd, not being able to stop myself from being

738
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 4: like who fared?

739
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: Like just like.

740
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 4: That, it's so tempting to disturb, you know, the stillness.

741
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 4: I think I would be the weakest there was, the

742
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: dumbest person in the in the mob. I'm the person

743
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: that changes us from a core cohort into like a

744
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 4: freak out.

745
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 2: Could you ever see yourself being swept up in a mob?

746
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: I think it's emotionally yeah, because I feel like.

747
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that we all think like

748
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: we're that were It's sort of like cults, right, Everyone

749
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: says like I could never join a cult, like I

750
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: would never fall for that, in saying I'm too.

751
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: You would.

752
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 4: I don't think I would be in a mob because

753
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: I don't consider myself to be like an impulsive person

754
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 4: and I don't have like a sort of you know,

755
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 4: like the switchblade of a temper that comes out.

756
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 3: But I really love friendly groups. I love cooking.

757
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 4: I love it when people are like trying to help

758
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: each other actualize their dreams.

759
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: And I like it when people like are.

760
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 4: Dedicated to each other, and a lot of times cults

761
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 4: are like non violent. I used to have a stand

762
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 4: up bit about this actually about how like I would

763
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: totally get drawn into a cult because like, I like

764
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 4: all the things that they do, except I don't like

765
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 4: having to be naked in a group of people, and

766
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 4: I don't like having to do like oral sex to

767
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 4: like a very very elderly person who has a long beard,

768
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: which I feel like they make you do like the

769
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 4: head of the cult.

770
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: That is, that's that's in the cult bylaws.

771
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 4: There's usually some guy who's like, you know what, Actually,

772
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 4: a lot of the more interesting members of the cult

773
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 4: are doing.

774
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, oh wait, why haven't you you fallen into

775
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: a cult?

776
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: Then there are lots of them out there. There are

777
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: lots of great options.

778
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 4: Hey, I've got a strong family, really great friends that

779
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 4: are like no no, no, no, no no no, don't

780
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 4: don't go in there.

781
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: Good answer.

782
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: I also think that you are a inquisitive person, and

783
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: you're someone who like you're you're not only very intelligent

784
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: and uh and sort of like educated, and you've taken

785
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: it upon yourself to learn about the world and learn

786
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: about people, And I think that is some of the

787
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: best armor against these kinds of group think or indoctrination

788
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: of some kind. The minute you start asking questions, even

789
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: with genuine curiosity, not even like an accusatory like wait

790
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: a minute, but you're just sort of like, now, hold on,

791
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: why do you think I should I should blow that

792
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: old man with a beard?

793
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: Like what's the reason? Like why are we getting?

794
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: Well? We have to do that though, you know, like

795
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: if we're all going to transcend and like you know,

796
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 4: have clear minds, like why would we need to do that?

797
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

798
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 4: And you know what is a good place to start

799
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 4: for me? Sometimes it is like I will ask myself

800
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 4: for sometimes other people, like if this were a movie,

801
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 4: who would you be? And like what part of the story,

802
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 4: Like would it seemed like a good story, if this

803
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 4: were a parable, if this were like a religious text

804
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: or a fairy tale, who would you be?

805
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: Who would they be?

806
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Who would they be? You know, it's a great question,

807
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: who would be?

808
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: I think you're onto something really quite elegant, which is

809
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: that stories, movies parables the sort of broad whatever gestalt of.

810
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: Hum and storytelling.

811
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 1: It is rooted in fundamental values, right like a sense

812
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: of right and wrong. My kid loves the Lion King,

813
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: and so I've gotten very deep into the sort of

814
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: like Lion King universe. And and that is a movie

815
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: where good and bad is so clearly delineated, and bad

816
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: is portrayed with Nazi symbolism totally.

817
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 4: I mean stars when he sings be prepared, that is,

818
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 4: those thos.

819
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,240
Speaker 2: Are literally goose stepping.

820
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's and so it's it's so interesting to

821
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: me that those kinds of stories that that obviously have

822
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: an intent to kind of raise children with a sense

823
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: of right and wrong and a sense of sort of

824
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: trepidation towards that kind of behavior, towards Scar's behavior. Yeah,

825
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: and yet we see a cultural swing to a greater

826
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: trust in that. Like, I'm so confused. That's such cognitive

827
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: dissonance for me that I'm trying to work through and understand.

828
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you know, there's also the thing about the

829
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 4: fairy tale, and I would include you know, the Lion King,

830
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 4: and that is that like the thing that can be

831
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 4: hard in adulthood is that you can feel that a

832
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 4: fairy tale only functions as something to like a warning

833
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 4: or a disappointment, because it's like, wait, but like the

834
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: Jafar of my life didn't get stops, the scar of

835
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: my life, didn't of my country, like didn't.

836
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: Get thrown off the cliff or whatever.

837
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 4: Like they they they're sitting on the on the chair,

838
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: they're sitting on the throne whatever. But I think that

839
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 4: that can actually be a distraction from the other thing

840
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 4: about fairy tales or archetypes, which is like they're a

841
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 4: template for us to compare ourselves to. They're not just

842
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 4: like an outcome or sort of an immature, shallow warning.

843
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: It's like there's they're really used to.

844
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 4: They're really really useful because you don't get so scared

845
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 4: about like having to really think about your own life.

846
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: You know, you don't short circuit or get overwhelmed.

847
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 4: But if you place it outside of yourself and you look,

848
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 4: then you're like, oh, I guess I do see a

849
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: lot of stuff, because I do see.

850
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 3: A lot of similarities.

851
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 4: And then you have to do, you know, the more

852
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 4: difficult work of figuring out how to turn in a

853
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 4: new direction. But if you do turn in a new direction,

854
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 4: you shouldn't go in a big yellow, black bubble we

855
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 4: carriage because and even if you do that, don't get

856
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 4: out of the fucking carriage man.

857
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, stay inside, right, just stay, keep your head inside

858
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: and go as fast as you can. Change those horses

859
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: and go as fast as you can. Jenny Slade, You're

860
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: amazing and such a device. Thanks so much for coming

861
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: on Snaffoo.

862
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I loved this.

863
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: Snaffoo is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapoo Media,

864
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company.

865
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: Post production creative support from good Egg Audio. Our executive

866
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim,

867
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino

868
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: and Tory Smith. Our managing producer is Carl Nellis. Our

869
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from

870
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: Nick Dooley. Additional story editing from Carl Nellis. Our creative

871
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by Matt Gosson

872
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: and the Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan

873
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn,

874
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson,

875
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: Kerry Lieberman and Nikki Ator. While I have you, don't

876
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo,

877
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available

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Speaker 1: now from any book retailer.

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Speaker 2: Just go to Snaffo dashbook dot com. Thanks for listening,

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Speaker 2: and see you next time week.

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Speaker 3: H