Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Tim and I everybody here at Bloomberg. We talk a
Speaker 2: lot about data. We talked about bias in data, and
Speaker 2: our next guest thinks a lot about how your unconscious
Speaker 2: bias is affecting how you interact with your colleagues. According
Speaker 2: to this woman, she's an award winning diversity consultant and
Speaker 2: international corporate speaker. Her bio notoe. She is diversity personified.
Speaker 2: She's a CEO and entrepreneur. She's black, she's a female,
Speaker 2: she's bisexual. She's an ex preacher's wife, left handed and
Speaker 2: a former division ie athlete. So she looks at life
Speaker 2: from a lot of different vantage points. Curious to see
Speaker 2: what she says about her diverse and yet divided atmosphere.
Speaker 2: So welcome to Richa Grant. She's CEO of her own firm,
Speaker 2: speaking and consulting from Richa Grant ELLC. She's worked with
Speaker 2: the likes of Google, Levi, Xerox, Utube, p and G, Samsung, Harvard,
Speaker 2: and parts of the US military. And she too has
Speaker 2: a book on this side. Object better than your bs,
Speaker 2: how radical acceptance empowers authenticity and creates a workplace culture
Speaker 2: of inclusion. She is with Tim and me on zoom
Speaker 2: from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Risha, really delighted to have you here
Speaker 2: with us, and no doubt about it, your background really
Speaker 2: caught our attention. Talk to us a little bit about
Speaker 2: yourself and how your diverse background and looking at the
Speaker 2: world from a lot of different points shapes your thoughts
Speaker 2: about diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 3: Definitely well, first and foremost, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3: This is a topic that's been near and dear to
Speaker 3: my heart my entire life. You know, growing up in Oklahoma,
Speaker 3: it's not a place where diversity is celebrated in the
Speaker 3: way that it should be. And so I don't think
Speaker 3: that I chose it. I really think that it chose me.
Speaker 3: You know, from the time I was a kid. This
Speaker 3: is something that I have cared deeply about, and I'm
Speaker 3: really frustrated with where we are now in the.
Speaker 4: World because I believe that we are.
Speaker 3: You know, we're prioritizing politics over people, and that's really
Speaker 3: really all diversity and inclusion is about.
Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say that that we're
Speaker 1: prioritizing politics over people right now? What are some examples
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 3: I think you see it in all the all of
Speaker 3: the elections stuff that's about to start happening for twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four.
Speaker 4: I think when you.
Speaker 3: Look at the LGBT plus community, a lot of bills,
Speaker 3: like over four or five hundred bills have been introduced
Speaker 3: right to really stop the growth of that community. And
Speaker 3: I feel like it's something that is being used as fear.
Speaker 3: You know, it's being used people are prioritizing LGBT over
Speaker 3: family values, and you know, it's really especially when you
Speaker 3: drill down into transgender and it is really something that
Speaker 3: is getting teeth right now, when really we're just talking
Speaker 3: about humanity. You know, That's that's the whole thing about
Speaker 3: this is we are talking about humanity.
Speaker 4: We're talking about allowing people to just be who they are.
Speaker 4: I am curious.
Speaker 2: I am curious about who you are and where you
Speaker 2: have felt the most stop signs are pushback? Was it
Speaker 2: as a CEO, as an entrepreneur, being black, being a female,
Speaker 2: being bisexual, being an athlete? Where I feel like there
Speaker 2: are still so many gaps between women athletes and male
Speaker 2: athletes in our world, where have you and forgive me that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's the worst experience, But I am curious
Speaker 2: where you have felt so much pushback as you know,
Speaker 2: being in one of those worlds or environments, if you will.
Speaker 4: It's definitely for me it's it's been being black, you know.
Speaker 3: And again growing up in Oklahoma.
Speaker 4: You know, I come from a from a.
Speaker 3: State where when we were when we would read about
Speaker 3: in high school, for instance, we would read about a
Speaker 3: Huckleberry Friend, Tom Story, you're all those things that you know,
Speaker 3: they use the N word in this in those books,
Speaker 3: and instead of you know, really talking about understand we're
Speaker 3: not going to say that word, the black kids would
Speaker 3: go out in the hall.
Speaker 4: You know. And I remember even thinking then like, wow,
Speaker 4: this is you know, this is crazy.
Speaker 3: It was never the concept of let's not say this,
Speaker 3: let's talk about talk about why this is a problem.
Speaker 3: And then as I got older, I still had to
Speaker 3: you know, I still had to experience being black, like
Speaker 3: being bisexual, being a woman.
Speaker 4: All of those things may have played a part in it.
Speaker 3: But I know, for me, I've had many instances where
Speaker 3: just being a black person has kept me from doing
Speaker 3: some of the things that I wanted to do in life.
Speaker 4: And so what I realized about.
Speaker 3: Myself is that I developed a bias toward white people.
Speaker 4: And that was something that was the game changer for me.
Speaker 3: And because when I started this business, I started the
Speaker 3: only diversity communications firm in the state of Oklahoma.
Speaker 4: And when I got to tell you, it was the
Speaker 4: most challenging thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 3: It was insane, and I would get so much pushback,
Speaker 3: and in my mind, I'm thinking, Wow, it's because you know,
Speaker 3: it's because I'm black, It's because white people don't they
Speaker 3: don't want to hear this, they don't care about this.
Speaker 3: But when I realize that you know what, you're carrying
Speaker 3: the same bias in to your meetings and in your
Speaker 3: interactions that you're probably receiving.
Speaker 4: So for me, it all starts with the person you know.
Speaker 3: And I knew that I needed to recognize how my
Speaker 3: bias was showing up in my behavior. And so when
Speaker 3: I begin to change that and I begin to really
Speaker 3: just look at people for who they are, I noticed
Speaker 3: a big difference not only in myself but in the
Speaker 3: people around me.
Speaker 2: So we should take So I am curious, like when
Speaker 2: you go into or google hires you, or wants to
Speaker 2: work with you, Levi's or P and G or the
Speaker 2: US military, Like when you go into and I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's not all the same situations, but I am curious.
Speaker 2: You know, what are you brought in to do and
Speaker 2: what is it that's like top of mind or their concerns,
Speaker 2: their worries that they want you to help them with.
Speaker 3: It is really about because for companies, these discrimination lawsuits
Speaker 3: are still one of the number one lawsuits that companies face.
Speaker 3: And for them, if their culture is not connected, they
Speaker 3: don't have cohesion, then you know, goals aren't being met,
Speaker 3: people aren't happy.
Speaker 4: You have to keep replacing people. So most of the
Speaker 4: companies they want to make people aware of their biases.
Speaker 3: Their unconscious biases, and how they're showing up toward their coworkers.
Speaker 3: And so for me, I help them to identify own
Speaker 3: and confront those issues because a lot of people still say, well,
Speaker 3: I don't have bias, but I like to use this
Speaker 3: audience engagement tool and it's completely anonymous.
Speaker 4: So when I ask people where their biases are, it
Speaker 4: is ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Black people, white people, homeless people, overweight people, people with money.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like we don't like anybody. We have
Speaker 4: an issue with with everybody, And.
Speaker 3: So I tell people all the time, like you know,
Speaker 3: there are everybody does not Every white person is not racist,
Speaker 3: every black person is not to be feared.
Speaker 4: Every homeless person is not just lazy.
Speaker 3: You know. We have to deal with the person in
Speaker 3: front of us instead of looping them into a group
Speaker 3: of people that may have offended you in the past,
Speaker 3: because that's what happens. We have an interaction, it can
Speaker 3: be in bad interaction, or we're living through the pains
Speaker 3: and experiences of our of the people who raised us.
Speaker 3: So they tell us things about people.
Speaker 4: And we carry that for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3: We never even give people the chance. Well, you know,
Speaker 3: and I try to tell people. You know, I tell
Speaker 3: companies all the time, you don't have diversity problems, You
Speaker 3: have people problems. Diversity is not a problem. Diversity is
Speaker 3: a fact.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to talk to you about. Because
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, I would say, in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: in the wake of George Floyd's murder, a company started
Speaker 1: to talk about this in a different way. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if they continued to talk about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that kind of went away a little.
Speaker 4: Bit A lot.
Speaker 1: We agree, what are you seeing in your work?
Speaker 3: Oh, it's been this year has been the most challenging
Speaker 3: really since I started speaking. I've been doing this twenty
Speaker 3: five years, so way before it was cool, and when
Speaker 3: I started, it was more apathy. People just kind of
Speaker 3: you know, they didn't get it. Now it's like people
Speaker 3: get it, and they get it in a way that
Speaker 3: scares them. So, if I'm being honest with you, like
Speaker 3: one of the things the main things that's come out.
Speaker 4: Of this year is DEI fatigue.
Speaker 3: And I said, okay, please explain that to me. Well,
Speaker 3: our employees are tired of hearing about DEI. Can we
Speaker 3: talk about it from a culture standpoint and not say
Speaker 3: the words DEI.
Speaker 4: Well that's what I was happening, you know, twenty years ago.
Speaker 3: And the thing is people may be tired of hearing it,
Speaker 3: but think about the people that are tired of living
Speaker 3: in it, and they're tired of dealing with it. And
Speaker 3: so you've probably seen the numbers where I mean, I
Speaker 3: think it's fifty percent of DEI directors or some really
Speaker 3: big number like that have lost their jobs, you know,
Speaker 3: because companies are now they're pulling back.
Speaker 4: And the thing is you cannot pull back on people, right.
Speaker 4: And the biggest fear, the.
Speaker 3: Absolute biggest fear that I get when I really get
Speaker 3: a chance to talk to my audience is.
Speaker 4: That white people are they.
Speaker 3: Fear that this is going to pull them out, right,
Speaker 3: this is this is going to exclude them and any
Speaker 3: company that's doing inclusion.
Speaker 4: Right, it is about everybody.
Speaker 3: It's not about pulling people out, it's about bringing everybody in.
Speaker 4: Right. That's the problem is we've been pulling people out.
Speaker 2: You talked about diversity officers. We did a story earlier
Speaker 2: this year in February hiring for diversity officers stalls two
Speaker 2: years after big promises. So it does feel like quite
Speaker 2: quite a change. Listen, we run out of time, but
Speaker 2: I hope we can continue this conversation in the future
Speaker 2: because you really have made me certainly think about it.
Speaker 2: The idea of it's not a diversity issue, it's a
Speaker 2: people issue, I think is just a big theme and
Speaker 2: a big way to think about this. Be well, and
Speaker 2: hopefully we'll have you back soon. Richa Grant, CEO of
Speaker 2: our own firm author of Better than Your Bs. Check
Speaker 2: it out everybody