1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:29,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's Miami in the nineteen eighties, inside a local 2 00:00:29,756 --> 00:00:33,836 Speaker 1: elementary school, and one of the students, Vivek, is feeling 3 00:00:33,836 --> 00:00:36,796 Speaker 1: out of place. He's new to the city, new to 4 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:40,276 Speaker 1: the country even and he's experiencing something that many of 5 00:00:40,356 --> 00:00:43,796 Speaker 1: us are at least a little familiar with. Vivek is 6 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:47,836 Speaker 1: feeling lonely. Experiencing loneliness had very much to do with shyness, 7 00:00:47,876 --> 00:00:50,836 Speaker 1: and I was actually not deeply introverted. I wanted to 8 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:52,876 Speaker 1: spend time with other people, but I was really shy, 9 00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:55,676 Speaker 1: and I had at our time making friends. Young Vivek 10 00:00:55,796 --> 00:00:58,796 Speaker 1: lived in the shadow of that loneliness. The schoolyard, his 11 00:00:58,876 --> 00:01:01,636 Speaker 1: home room, and lunch tables may have been bustling, but 12 00:01:01,716 --> 00:01:03,356 Speaker 1: no one seemed to stop to get to know the 13 00:01:03,396 --> 00:01:06,236 Speaker 1: shy young boy in their midst Going to school each 14 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,956 Speaker 1: day was stressful, and I was always worried about cafeteria, 15 00:01:09,156 --> 00:01:11,556 Speaker 1: lunch time and sitting alone. I was worried about what 16 00:01:11,596 --> 00:01:13,956 Speaker 1: would happen in the playground when people were choosing teams, 17 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:16,076 Speaker 1: and was worried that I might be chosen last, even 18 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:18,116 Speaker 1: though I had good athletic ability, but I just didn't 19 00:01:18,116 --> 00:01:20,916 Speaker 1: have a lot of close friendships with people. The Vak's 20 00:01:20,916 --> 00:01:24,036 Speaker 1: feelings of sadness and isolation extended beyond the school day. 21 00:01:24,396 --> 00:01:26,836 Speaker 1: He went home to a supportive family, but he held 22 00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:30,556 Speaker 1: his loneliness closely. It was his secret, his biggest source 23 00:01:30,556 --> 00:01:33,436 Speaker 1: of shame. It was something he wasn't willing to share 24 00:01:33,436 --> 00:01:36,316 Speaker 1: with anyone. You know, I was embarrassed. I didn't want 25 00:01:36,316 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: it to seem like I was somehow deficient in some 26 00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:41,796 Speaker 1: way or unable to interact with people. Vivek's shame was 27 00:01:41,836 --> 00:01:44,996 Speaker 1: compounded by a sense of guilt. His parents had moved 28 00:01:45,036 --> 00:01:47,716 Speaker 1: several times and only a few short years, looking for 29 00:01:47,756 --> 00:01:50,756 Speaker 1: the best place to raise a young family. Despite his age, 30 00:01:50,876 --> 00:01:53,396 Speaker 1: Vivek could sense how difficult this was for his parents. 31 00:01:53,876 --> 00:01:57,076 Speaker 1: He didn't want to burden them further by revealing his unhappiness. 32 00:01:57,396 --> 00:01:59,596 Speaker 1: I didn't want them to think that somehow this was 33 00:01:59,636 --> 00:02:01,876 Speaker 1: their fault. You know, my parents had just come to 34 00:02:01,876 --> 00:02:03,716 Speaker 1: the United States. You're dealing with a lot of different 35 00:02:03,716 --> 00:02:05,476 Speaker 1: stresses and trying to figure out how to make sure 36 00:02:05,516 --> 00:02:07,756 Speaker 1: we were okay in school, and they were working really 37 00:02:07,796 --> 00:02:09,596 Speaker 1: hard at that, and I just didn't want to make 38 00:02:09,596 --> 00:02:11,996 Speaker 1: them feel like somehow they were falling short. And I 39 00:02:11,996 --> 00:02:13,796 Speaker 1: don't think they were falling short. I think they were 40 00:02:13,836 --> 00:02:16,596 Speaker 1: doing everything that a parent needs to do. If you've 41 00:02:16,636 --> 00:02:19,676 Speaker 1: listened to previous episodes, you've probably heard that our minds 42 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:23,516 Speaker 1: are often unreliable, that we're prone to rationalizing or putting 43 00:02:23,516 --> 00:02:26,596 Speaker 1: a positive spin on our tough memories by editing or 44 00:02:26,596 --> 00:02:30,956 Speaker 1: forgetting them. But Vivek's early experiences of loneliness are still 45 00:02:30,996 --> 00:02:34,476 Speaker 1: seared into his brain. They've even given him a new 46 00:02:34,516 --> 00:02:38,236 Speaker 1: mission in his career today. Viveque to give his full 47 00:02:38,236 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: title is Vice Admiral Vague H. Murphy, MD. Two time 48 00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:47,196 Speaker 1: Surgeon General of the United States. Vegs tackled many public 49 00:02:47,236 --> 00:02:50,116 Speaker 1: health priorities while in office, but one of the issues 50 00:02:50,116 --> 00:02:53,956 Speaker 1: he wants is to take more seriously is loneliness. Loneliness 51 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:56,516 Speaker 1: seems to be a near universal experience. Is far more 52 00:02:56,556 --> 00:02:59,236 Speaker 1: common than we think, and it's also much more consequential, 53 00:02:59,316 --> 00:03:00,956 Speaker 1: both for our health as well as for how we 54 00:03:00,996 --> 00:03:03,276 Speaker 1: show up in life, whether that's for our families, in 55 00:03:03,276 --> 00:03:05,516 Speaker 1: the workplace, we're in school. So that's what led me 56 00:03:05,636 --> 00:03:08,676 Speaker 1: on the path of focusing on loneliness. We sometimes tell 57 00:03:08,676 --> 00:03:11,836 Speaker 1: ourselves that loneliness affects only a sad minority of people. 58 00:03:12,396 --> 00:03:15,956 Speaker 1: The widowed, the withdrawn, the weird. We think that a 59 00:03:15,956 --> 00:03:18,876 Speaker 1: busy life in a bustling office, school, or workplace means 60 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:21,796 Speaker 1: that we can't be lonely, that having kids or a 61 00:03:21,796 --> 00:03:25,036 Speaker 1: loving partner can satisfy all of our complex social needs. 62 00:03:25,956 --> 00:03:29,436 Speaker 1: And we usually assume that friendships just happen without our 63 00:03:29,436 --> 00:03:31,396 Speaker 1: having to put in the work needed to seek out 64 00:03:31,396 --> 00:03:35,236 Speaker 1: opportunities for connecting. But as you'll hear, our minds tend 65 00:03:35,236 --> 00:03:37,876 Speaker 1: to lie to us about how social connection really works. 66 00:03:38,556 --> 00:03:41,716 Speaker 1: And the truth is loneliness is much more pervasive than 67 00:03:41,756 --> 00:03:45,196 Speaker 1: we think. In fact, if the statistics are right, it's 68 00:03:45,236 --> 00:03:49,476 Speaker 1: even possible that you're feeling lonely right now. And if 69 00:03:49,476 --> 00:03:52,516 Speaker 1: you are, what can you do about it? How can 70 00:03:52,556 --> 00:03:55,396 Speaker 1: we fight our feelings of emotional isolation so that we 71 00:03:55,436 --> 00:03:58,356 Speaker 1: can get all the happiness benefits that come from other people. 72 00:04:01,516 --> 00:04:03,676 Speaker 1: Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to 73 00:04:03,716 --> 00:04:06,556 Speaker 1: be happy. But what if our minds are wrong. What 74 00:04:06,636 --> 00:04:09,276 Speaker 1: if our minds are lying to us, leading us away, 75 00:04:09,316 --> 00:04:12,316 Speaker 1: who will really make us happy? The good news is 76 00:04:12,316 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 1: that understanding the science of the mind can poin us 77 00:04:14,596 --> 00:04:17,316 Speaker 1: all back in the right direction. You're listening to the 78 00:04:17,356 --> 00:04:30,796 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. If I want to 79 00:04:30,836 --> 00:04:34,476 Speaker 1: improve my physical health, there's plenty of reasonably specific, science 80 00:04:34,476 --> 00:04:37,956 Speaker 1: backed information out there. For example, the US Department of 81 00:04:37,996 --> 00:04:40,836 Speaker 1: Health website lists the top ten changes I should make 82 00:04:40,876 --> 00:04:44,436 Speaker 1: to my diet, things like limiting added sugar or eating 83 00:04:44,436 --> 00:04:49,756 Speaker 1: more whole grains. The same goes for exercise. The CDC 84 00:04:49,916 --> 00:04:51,876 Speaker 1: tells me I should do one hundred and fifty minutes 85 00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:56,476 Speaker 1: of modern intensity activity every week, like this elliptical machine 86 00:04:56,596 --> 00:04:59,996 Speaker 1: that I'm on right now. But to cite the impact 87 00:04:59,996 --> 00:05:02,796 Speaker 1: that loneliness has on our health and well being, we 88 00:05:02,836 --> 00:05:05,476 Speaker 1: don't have daily targets for social connection and the way 89 00:05:05,516 --> 00:05:14,156 Speaker 1: we do for nutrition and exercise. There's no checklist telling 90 00:05:14,156 --> 00:05:16,436 Speaker 1: you to say hello to five people in your neighborhood 91 00:05:16,956 --> 00:05:19,036 Speaker 1: or to spend one hundred and fifty minutes per week 92 00:05:19,116 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 1: having a real heart to heart with a person you trust. 93 00:05:22,236 --> 00:05:25,156 Speaker 1: But these types of interactions are required for our health 94 00:05:25,156 --> 00:05:28,236 Speaker 1: and happiness, and not getting a big enough dose could 95 00:05:28,236 --> 00:05:32,036 Speaker 1: be taking a larger toll than you think. When Vvakmurthy 96 00:05:32,156 --> 00:05:35,116 Speaker 1: first became Surgeon General, he assumed he'd carry on the 97 00:05:35,156 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 1: work of his predecessors, concentrating on health problems like obesity, 98 00:05:39,316 --> 00:05:43,676 Speaker 1: smoking and the opioid crisis. But loneliness, that feeling he 99 00:05:43,796 --> 00:05:47,596 Speaker 1: remembered so vividly from childhood, quickly became an important part 100 00:05:47,596 --> 00:05:51,276 Speaker 1: of his agenda. And that's because feeling lonely can have 101 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:55,036 Speaker 1: a devastating effect on our health. It appears that loneliness 102 00:05:55,116 --> 00:05:58,236 Speaker 1: is strongly associated with an increased risk of heart disease 103 00:05:58,356 --> 00:06:01,996 Speaker 1: and dementia, and depression and anxiety. People who struggle with 104 00:06:02,076 --> 00:06:05,476 Speaker 1: loneliness also have fragmented sleep, so they may sleep for 105 00:06:05,476 --> 00:06:08,076 Speaker 1: the same number of hours as somebody else, but that 106 00:06:08,316 --> 00:06:11,916 Speaker 1: sleep is broken up and marked by something called microawakenings, 107 00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:14,916 Speaker 1: where they don't fully wake up, but they nearly wake up, 108 00:06:14,996 --> 00:06:18,156 Speaker 1: and that disturbed quality of sleep affects how RESTful your 109 00:06:18,196 --> 00:06:21,116 Speaker 1: sleep is. It diminishes the quality of your sleep. There's 110 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:24,836 Speaker 1: also evidence that loneliness can be deadly. Take, for example, 111 00:06:24,876 --> 00:06:28,916 Speaker 1: a famous paper by Brigham Young University psychologist Julian Holt 112 00:06:28,996 --> 00:06:32,276 Speaker 1: lnstat She and her colleagues used a technique known as 113 00:06:32,316 --> 00:06:35,516 Speaker 1: a meta analysis, in which you mathematically pool the results 114 00:06:35,516 --> 00:06:38,596 Speaker 1: of all the existing studies on a topic to create 115 00:06:38,596 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 1: a sort of mega study with tons of statistical power. 116 00:06:42,316 --> 00:06:44,996 Speaker 1: Julian used this method and pulled more than a hundred 117 00:06:44,996 --> 00:06:49,116 Speaker 1: studies on longevity and social connection, and her results were striking. 118 00:06:49,756 --> 00:06:52,996 Speaker 1: People with strong social bonds were fifty percent less likely 119 00:06:53,076 --> 00:06:56,036 Speaker 1: to die over a given period of time than those 120 00:06:56,076 --> 00:07:00,356 Speaker 1: who had fewer social connections. And that scary finding maybe 121 00:07:00,436 --> 00:07:04,476 Speaker 1: even underestimating the true dangers of loneliness, since the studies 122 00:07:04,516 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 1: she pulled together tended not to weed out things like 123 00:07:06,916 --> 00:07:11,276 Speaker 1: bad marriages and toxic friendships from all those healthier social interactions. 124 00:07:11,956 --> 00:07:15,596 Speaker 1: For a newly elected surgeon general, such stark findings were 125 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,436 Speaker 1: hard to ignore if you look at the degree of 126 00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,396 Speaker 1: life shortening. If you will, it appeared similar to the 127 00:07:21,676 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: mortality impact of smoking fifteen cigarettes today, and greater than 128 00:07:25,396 --> 00:07:29,596 Speaker 1: the mortality impact of obesity or sedentary living. But there's 129 00:07:29,596 --> 00:07:31,876 Speaker 1: another feature of loneliness that makes it as much of 130 00:07:31,876 --> 00:07:34,716 Speaker 1: a public health threat as so many other big challenges, 131 00:07:35,276 --> 00:07:38,956 Speaker 1: and that's its commonality. According to some surveys, nearly a 132 00:07:38,996 --> 00:07:41,876 Speaker 1: fifth of people in the United States today admit to 133 00:07:41,916 --> 00:07:45,116 Speaker 1: struggling with loneliness. And just put this in context, twenty 134 00:07:45,156 --> 00:07:47,396 Speaker 1: two percent of adults in the United States is more 135 00:07:47,596 --> 00:07:50,476 Speaker 1: than a percentage of adults who smokes cigarettes. It's more 136 00:07:50,516 --> 00:07:53,036 Speaker 1: than percentage of adults who have diabetes, so this is 137 00:07:53,116 --> 00:07:56,276 Speaker 1: exceedingly common. And if more than one in five adults 138 00:07:56,276 --> 00:07:58,396 Speaker 1: are impacted by loneliness, that means that you likely know 139 00:07:58,476 --> 00:08:00,796 Speaker 1: somebody who's struggling with loneliness that very will Maybe you 140 00:08:00,956 --> 00:08:03,076 Speaker 1: could be your spouse, and could be your friends, It 141 00:08:03,076 --> 00:08:05,316 Speaker 1: could be your family. But we tend not to realize 142 00:08:05,356 --> 00:08:08,436 Speaker 1: that people close to us are feeling lonely, often because 143 00:08:08,596 --> 00:08:11,756 Speaker 1: they're taking active steps to hide it. Vege found that 144 00:08:11,756 --> 00:08:14,956 Speaker 1: people were surprisingly willing to talk openly about their struggles 145 00:08:14,956 --> 00:08:19,476 Speaker 1: with things like obesity and addiction, but loneliness not so much. 146 00:08:19,996 --> 00:08:22,916 Speaker 1: There was a stigma around loneliness that was also universal, 147 00:08:23,036 --> 00:08:24,836 Speaker 1: a sense that if you admitted you are lonely, that 148 00:08:24,916 --> 00:08:27,476 Speaker 1: somehow you were not likable or that you were deficient 149 00:08:27,556 --> 00:08:29,716 Speaker 1: in some way, and that kept a lot of people 150 00:08:29,716 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 1: from admitting their struggles. But in close conversations and in 151 00:08:33,716 --> 00:08:36,756 Speaker 1: private moments, people of all backgrounds and age groups would 152 00:08:36,756 --> 00:08:39,356 Speaker 1: share that they were struggling with loneliness. I'll be the 153 00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:41,676 Speaker 1: first to admit that there are definitely times when I've 154 00:08:41,676 --> 00:08:44,876 Speaker 1: felt lonely. I mean, I have a wonderfully supportive husband, 155 00:08:44,956 --> 00:08:47,196 Speaker 1: and I work with a great team of stimulating students 156 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:49,796 Speaker 1: and colleagues. I get to interact with lots of great 157 00:08:49,836 --> 00:08:52,876 Speaker 1: people throughout my day, but those same times when work 158 00:08:52,956 --> 00:08:55,356 Speaker 1: keeps me really busy are also times when I have 159 00:08:55,396 --> 00:08:58,876 Speaker 1: little opportunity to see my friends. And this pattern is 160 00:08:58,876 --> 00:09:01,836 Speaker 1: something I have in common with Vic, especially when he 161 00:09:01,836 --> 00:09:04,636 Speaker 1: first started his new job. I think we can get 162 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:08,036 Speaker 1: caught up in that narrative and convince ourselves in almost 163 00:09:08,036 --> 00:09:10,756 Speaker 1: a martyrsh sort of way, that we're doing something for 164 00:09:10,796 --> 00:09:13,796 Speaker 1: a cause greater than ourselves, and using that as justification 165 00:09:13,956 --> 00:09:16,636 Speaker 1: for letting our relationships slide. And what I came to 166 00:09:16,676 --> 00:09:20,836 Speaker 1: realize in retrospect is that the cost of that misprioritization 167 00:09:21,156 --> 00:09:24,556 Speaker 1: was greater than I could have imagined. Vic's new rolement 168 00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:27,396 Speaker 1: that he was interacting with dozens of interesting people every 169 00:09:27,396 --> 00:09:31,316 Speaker 1: single day, even President Obama, But quality time with the 170 00:09:31,356 --> 00:09:34,596 Speaker 1: commander in chief can't make up for missed opportunities to 171 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:37,396 Speaker 1: connect with the people we care about most. I had 172 00:09:37,436 --> 00:09:41,476 Speaker 1: become distanced from good friends that I had strong relationships 173 00:09:41,476 --> 00:09:43,756 Speaker 1: for years. I had realized that even this time I 174 00:09:43,836 --> 00:09:46,476 Speaker 1: was spending with my family was not nearly as high 175 00:09:46,556 --> 00:09:49,116 Speaker 1: quality as it should have been. As I was often 176 00:09:49,156 --> 00:09:52,596 Speaker 1: distracted by emails and work and phone calls even during 177 00:09:52,636 --> 00:09:56,036 Speaker 1: family dinners and other family outings. The evidence suggests that 178 00:09:56,116 --> 00:09:59,276 Speaker 1: just like a balanced diet or proper exercise routine, we 179 00:09:59,316 --> 00:10:02,436 Speaker 1: also need a variety of social interactions to stay healthy 180 00:10:02,556 --> 00:10:05,956 Speaker 1: and avoid loneliness. Some of those can be shallow and fleeting, 181 00:10:06,236 --> 00:10:09,276 Speaker 1: others need to be lasting and more intimate. Vic Is 182 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:12,396 Speaker 1: found there's no single quick fix if we're lonely. We 183 00:10:12,436 --> 00:10:15,036 Speaker 1: need to sometimes do more than just changing the number 184 00:10:15,076 --> 00:10:17,676 Speaker 1: of people we interact with. Putting ourselves in the middlevel 185 00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:20,836 Speaker 1: crowd or showing up at a party or going to 186 00:10:21,196 --> 00:10:25,196 Speaker 1: mixers are not necessarily always the solution to loneliness. In 187 00:10:25,196 --> 00:10:28,716 Speaker 1: his fantastic book Together, The Healing Power of Human Connection 188 00:10:28,836 --> 00:10:32,876 Speaker 1: in a Sometimes Lonely World, Vac explains just how complicated 189 00:10:32,916 --> 00:10:36,276 Speaker 1: loneliness can be. There are three types of loneliness, and 190 00:10:36,316 --> 00:10:39,196 Speaker 1: there's intimate loneliness, which is feeling that you lack a 191 00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:42,156 Speaker 1: close confid on somebody who you can deeply trust, which 192 00:10:42,196 --> 00:10:44,676 Speaker 1: just about everything, somebody who knows you deeply and who 193 00:10:44,716 --> 00:10:46,756 Speaker 1: you know deeply. And when you lack that kind of 194 00:10:46,796 --> 00:10:50,236 Speaker 1: relationship in your life, then people experience intimate loneliness. There's 195 00:10:50,276 --> 00:10:54,036 Speaker 1: also something called relational loneliness, when we experience the absence 196 00:10:54,076 --> 00:10:57,236 Speaker 1: of friendships where we would get together with somebody or 197 00:10:57,236 --> 00:10:59,516 Speaker 1: with a group of people on weekends or in evenings. 198 00:10:59,516 --> 00:11:01,396 Speaker 1: We may go on vacations, we may call them up 199 00:11:01,876 --> 00:11:04,036 Speaker 1: to go to a ballgame or to watch a movie together. 200 00:11:04,236 --> 00:11:07,516 Speaker 1: And finally, there's something called collective loneliness, which is what 201 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:11,756 Speaker 1: we experience when we don't have the benefit of identity 202 00:11:12,076 --> 00:11:15,036 Speaker 1: with a common group. Now i identity may come from 203 00:11:15,076 --> 00:11:18,276 Speaker 1: a shared interest or affiliation. We may find, for example, 204 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:20,956 Speaker 1: that we have a sense of community with the alumni 205 00:11:21,156 --> 00:11:23,316 Speaker 1: of our college or the people that we go to 206 00:11:23,316 --> 00:11:25,596 Speaker 1: work with. The truth is, we need all three of 207 00:11:25,676 --> 00:11:29,076 Speaker 1: these who feel deeply connected in the most comprehensive way 208 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:34,156 Speaker 1: intimate friend connection, relational connection, and collective connection to fully 209 00:11:34,156 --> 00:11:36,836 Speaker 1: address the dangers that come with loneliness. We need to 210 00:11:36,876 --> 00:11:39,156 Speaker 1: make sure we're getting the right doses of each of 211 00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: these three types of social connection. But how do we 212 00:11:42,596 --> 00:11:45,676 Speaker 1: do that. We'll answer that question when the Happiness Lab 213 00:11:45,716 --> 00:11:55,076 Speaker 1: returns in a moment. Back when I was a grad 214 00:11:55,076 --> 00:11:57,516 Speaker 1: student in the early two thousands, a new book came 215 00:11:57,556 --> 00:12:00,596 Speaker 1: out that prompted lots and lots of conversations among my friends. 216 00:12:01,276 --> 00:12:04,636 Speaker 1: Who was called bowling alone by the Harvard political scientist 217 00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:08,116 Speaker 1: Robert Putnam. The title of Putnam's book came from an 218 00:12:08,116 --> 00:12:11,756 Speaker 1: observation about over the last few decades. Back in the 219 00:12:11,836 --> 00:12:15,156 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, Americans used to belong to bowling links. They 220 00:12:15,196 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 1: met weekly with a team to play competitively against other 221 00:12:18,276 --> 00:12:22,396 Speaker 1: local players. But by the late nineties, people's bowling behaviors 222 00:12:22,436 --> 00:12:27,396 Speaker 1: had changed. They seemed to just prefer bowling alone. Putnam 223 00:12:27,476 --> 00:12:29,676 Speaker 1: argued that the bowling example is part of a much 224 00:12:29,756 --> 00:12:33,436 Speaker 1: larger demographic change. He found that membership in all kinds 225 00:12:33,436 --> 00:12:37,476 Speaker 1: of organizations labored unions, veterans groups, rotary clubs, they were 226 00:12:37,476 --> 00:12:40,316 Speaker 1: in decline too. People just didn't seem to want to 227 00:12:40,356 --> 00:12:44,476 Speaker 1: belong to social groups anymore. Collective connection, the important feeling 228 00:12:44,516 --> 00:12:46,956 Speaker 1: of belonging that we get from sharing interests with a 229 00:12:46,996 --> 00:12:51,276 Speaker 1: community of like minded people, it had gotten scarcer and scarcer. 230 00:12:52,276 --> 00:12:54,476 Speaker 1: Putnam's thesis rang true with the people I knew in 231 00:12:54,476 --> 00:12:57,236 Speaker 1: grad school. None of us were really part of groups, 232 00:12:57,996 --> 00:13:01,316 Speaker 1: and this wasn't a time before smartphones, a time in 233 00:13:01,356 --> 00:13:06,076 Speaker 1: which most activities were irl in real life. Since bowling 234 00:13:06,076 --> 00:13:08,596 Speaker 1: alone was written, so much more of our lives has 235 00:13:08,596 --> 00:13:12,436 Speaker 1: migrated online and onto screens. I mean, the last time 236 00:13:12,476 --> 00:13:16,196 Speaker 1: I went bowling was inside my house using a wee controller. 237 00:13:17,476 --> 00:13:20,556 Speaker 1: This growing trend towards bowling alone or bowling virtually as 238 00:13:20,556 --> 00:13:23,756 Speaker 1: it were, has meant that collective loneliness is on the rise. 239 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:27,596 Speaker 1: An entire generation has missed that important sense of community 240 00:13:27,836 --> 00:13:30,956 Speaker 1: that our parents and grandparents probably took for granted back 241 00:13:30,956 --> 00:13:33,756 Speaker 1: in the day. We should be careful about pointing to 242 00:13:33,796 --> 00:13:36,756 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties as some sort of norm. This is 243 00:13:36,796 --> 00:13:40,796 Speaker 1: podcast host and Harvard Divinity School fellow Casper Turkeyle. A 244 00:13:40,836 --> 00:13:43,436 Speaker 1: lot of people were participating in these structures even though 245 00:13:43,436 --> 00:13:46,596 Speaker 1: they didn't necessarily really want to, but because if you didn't, 246 00:13:46,676 --> 00:13:49,676 Speaker 1: it meant being socially ostracized. But nonetheless, I think one 247 00:13:49,676 --> 00:13:51,636 Speaker 1: of the things that we're looking for suddenly in the 248 00:13:51,636 --> 00:13:55,316 Speaker 1: future is new structures of relationship that hold us together. 249 00:13:55,996 --> 00:13:59,236 Speaker 1: Casper studies how our culture is shaped by collective organizations 250 00:13:59,316 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: like religious groups and the happiness lessons we can learn 251 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:05,876 Speaker 1: from them. You might remember Casper from a previous episode 252 00:14:05,956 --> 00:14:09,916 Speaker 1: about the power of rituals and the particular ritual Asper developed, 253 00:14:10,076 --> 00:14:13,196 Speaker 1: which involved watching the bad romcom movie. You've got Mail? 254 00:14:13,876 --> 00:14:20,076 Speaker 1: Bad Romcom, Laurie, Is it not a rom com? No, 255 00:14:20,196 --> 00:14:27,156 Speaker 1: it's good. I'm sorry. Just as Casper advocated making a 256 00:14:27,196 --> 00:14:32,396 Speaker 1: ceremonial ritual with that genre, defining romcom classic, he also 257 00:14:32,556 --> 00:14:34,796 Speaker 1: argues that we need to copy what religion does right 258 00:14:35,116 --> 00:14:38,516 Speaker 1: in order to improve our collective loneliness. There's lots of 259 00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:41,876 Speaker 1: evidence that individuals who engage in religious services are happier 260 00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:44,876 Speaker 1: than those who report not being so religious, But the 261 00:14:44,916 --> 00:14:47,796 Speaker 1: science suggests that this happiness boost doesn't stem from what 262 00:14:47,876 --> 00:14:50,756 Speaker 1: religious individuals believe. It's not due to a faith in 263 00:14:50,796 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: the afterlife or a specific set of spiritual tenets. Religious 264 00:14:54,756 --> 00:14:57,996 Speaker 1: individuals get a well being bump from social support and 265 00:14:58,116 --> 00:15:00,396 Speaker 1: that sense of belonging that comes from hanging out at 266 00:15:00,396 --> 00:15:04,236 Speaker 1: religious services. Religion seems to make us happier because it 267 00:15:04,276 --> 00:15:08,196 Speaker 1: reduces our collective loneliness. And that's why Casper's such a 268 00:15:08,236 --> 00:15:11,236 Speaker 1: huge fan of Religiou, which has always struck me as 269 00:15:11,276 --> 00:15:15,236 Speaker 1: a little odd because Casper also identifies as kind of 270 00:15:15,236 --> 00:15:18,756 Speaker 1: a hardened gay atheist. When Casper tried joining a church 271 00:15:18,756 --> 00:15:21,956 Speaker 1: congregation as a kid, he didn't immediately get the connection 272 00:15:21,996 --> 00:15:25,436 Speaker 1: that follows from a like minded community. Instead, he felt 273 00:15:25,476 --> 00:15:29,436 Speaker 1: isolated and alone, certainly feeling very like I was not 274 00:15:29,556 --> 00:15:32,676 Speaker 1: welcome in the little Christian lunchtime club where they had 275 00:15:32,716 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 1: free kit kats and mister Kennedy played the guitar and 276 00:15:35,156 --> 00:15:36,836 Speaker 1: was very handsome. So I went a couple of times 277 00:15:36,876 --> 00:15:39,076 Speaker 1: until I realized that was not for me. And as 278 00:15:39,116 --> 00:15:41,636 Speaker 1: I grew older, I started to realize that really the 279 00:15:41,676 --> 00:15:44,316 Speaker 1: traditions that have thought most about, the questions that mean 280 00:15:44,396 --> 00:15:46,916 Speaker 1: so much to me, are religious traditions. Right. They ask 281 00:15:47,036 --> 00:15:49,516 Speaker 1: questions like what do we owe one another? How should 282 00:15:49,556 --> 00:15:52,076 Speaker 1: we be together? What does a healthy community look like? 283 00:15:52,196 --> 00:15:54,156 Speaker 1: How do we look after each other? How can we 284 00:15:54,196 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 1: find joy together? And those are the questions I love 285 00:15:56,716 --> 00:15:59,996 Speaker 1: to think about. As a Divinity School fellow, Casper began 286 00:16:00,076 --> 00:16:03,676 Speaker 1: studying whether other secular public spaces could offer the community 287 00:16:03,716 --> 00:16:07,316 Speaker 1: building interactions that churches provided, and he found a great 288 00:16:07,356 --> 00:16:11,156 Speaker 1: example in Jim. You're there to lose weight, get a 289 00:16:11,156 --> 00:16:13,756 Speaker 1: hot body, be strong, whatever it is. But the reason 290 00:16:13,796 --> 00:16:17,316 Speaker 1: why people stay is because they're building relationships or they're 291 00:16:17,356 --> 00:16:20,636 Speaker 1: finding meaning in these experiences. Casper has found that some 292 00:16:20,836 --> 00:16:24,476 Speaker 1: gyms and fitness centers have perhaps unwittingly picked up on 293 00:16:24,476 --> 00:16:27,236 Speaker 1: our thirst for a community and have incorporated it into 294 00:16:27,276 --> 00:16:30,676 Speaker 1: their exercise programs. You're kind of forced into a bit 295 00:16:30,676 --> 00:16:32,756 Speaker 1: of a social interaction, even though it's a little awkward, 296 00:16:32,756 --> 00:16:35,156 Speaker 1: so you're high fiving people. The fact that the whole 297 00:16:35,156 --> 00:16:38,436 Speaker 1: design of the workout means that no one finishes until 298 00:16:38,476 --> 00:16:40,636 Speaker 1: everyone's finished. So I don't know if you've ever been 299 00:16:40,636 --> 00:16:42,836 Speaker 1: in this situation, Laurie, but I certainly have, and it 300 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:45,756 Speaker 1: was very intense. I was the last one to finish 301 00:16:45,836 --> 00:16:48,756 Speaker 1: some horrific series of running and lifting and burpies, and 302 00:16:48,916 --> 00:16:51,916 Speaker 1: everyone stood around me, clapping like shouting my name, being 303 00:16:51,956 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: like you can do it. And of course in the moment, 304 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:57,036 Speaker 1: I hated every single one of them, but afterwards I 305 00:16:57,076 --> 00:16:59,556 Speaker 1: really felt like I would not have done it if 306 00:16:59,596 --> 00:17:01,836 Speaker 1: they hadn't been there. That sense of I can do 307 00:17:01,916 --> 00:17:04,876 Speaker 1: something more because of this community being around me is 308 00:17:04,916 --> 00:17:07,876 Speaker 1: a really powerful motivated to keep pushing yourself. So they 309 00:17:07,876 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: allow for that kind of community support, but in a 310 00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:13,436 Speaker 1: way that's very invitational, and that's a really powerful thing. 311 00:17:13,836 --> 00:17:16,356 Speaker 1: But if you're suffering from collective loneliness and don't want 312 00:17:16,356 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 1: a solution that involves tight like Gretn Burpes, Casper also 313 00:17:19,716 --> 00:17:22,716 Speaker 1: has another suggestion sign up for a class. A kind 314 00:17:22,756 --> 00:17:25,476 Speaker 1: of communal learning environment is a great way to meet 315 00:17:25,516 --> 00:17:28,316 Speaker 1: people in a way that's not very intense. So it 316 00:17:28,396 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: might be singing in a choir, it might be calligraphy classes, 317 00:17:31,716 --> 00:17:34,396 Speaker 1: it might be learning how to code, whatever it is. 318 00:17:34,436 --> 00:17:36,996 Speaker 1: Put yourself in a communal learning environment where you get 319 00:17:36,996 --> 00:17:40,556 Speaker 1: to learn alongside other people, and the fastest relationships often 320 00:17:40,556 --> 00:17:43,196 Speaker 1: happen in that kind of context. Casper has argued there's 321 00:17:43,196 --> 00:17:47,276 Speaker 1: another way that many organized religions reduce collective loneliness. They 322 00:17:47,276 --> 00:17:50,476 Speaker 1: often use a shared text to bring people together, think 323 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:53,556 Speaker 1: the Bible or the Torah. But could a similar sense 324 00:17:53,556 --> 00:17:56,716 Speaker 1: of belonging and shared values come from a non religious text. 325 00:17:57,476 --> 00:17:59,836 Speaker 1: Casper thought of a colleague who'd started a reading group 326 00:17:59,876 --> 00:18:03,636 Speaker 1: about mental health using only the novels of Charlotte Bronte. 327 00:18:04,036 --> 00:18:06,716 Speaker 1: I hadn't read J Mat and so I suggested, why 328 00:18:06,716 --> 00:18:08,076 Speaker 1: don't we do this with a book that lots of 329 00:18:08,116 --> 00:18:11,756 Speaker 1: people definitely love and for which there's a very active fandom, 330 00:18:11,756 --> 00:18:13,996 Speaker 1: which is, of course, the Harry Potter series. And so 331 00:18:14,036 --> 00:18:16,596 Speaker 1: we started a weekly class where we invited people to 332 00:18:16,636 --> 00:18:18,436 Speaker 1: come and read and talk about the books with us. 333 00:18:18,556 --> 00:18:21,276 Speaker 1: And it was wonderful because really, over nine months, we 334 00:18:21,396 --> 00:18:23,436 Speaker 1: build a little bit of a congregation. You know, people 335 00:18:23,516 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 1: visited each other in hospital, they became roommates, they fell 336 00:18:26,276 --> 00:18:28,876 Speaker 1: in and out of love, you know, all the things 337 00:18:28,916 --> 00:18:31,916 Speaker 1: that happen in a community. Casper's reading group also became 338 00:18:31,956 --> 00:18:34,996 Speaker 1: a podcast called Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. It 339 00:18:35,116 --> 00:18:37,236 Speaker 1: led fans all over the world to set up their 340 00:18:37,276 --> 00:18:40,236 Speaker 1: own in real life congregations. There's now hundreds of local 341 00:18:40,276 --> 00:18:42,316 Speaker 1: groups of people getting together to read and talk about 342 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:44,516 Speaker 1: the books. What's been more amazing than anything else is 343 00:18:44,556 --> 00:18:47,436 Speaker 1: when COVID hit, the listeners self organized to create a 344 00:18:47,516 --> 00:18:50,356 Speaker 1: mutual aid fund of podcast listeners, so people were sending 345 00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:53,196 Speaker 1: money to each other to support one another through the pandemic. 346 00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:55,156 Speaker 1: That was really a moment when I was like, Okay, 347 00:18:55,196 --> 00:18:57,916 Speaker 1: this is a community, Like they're really doing things together. 348 00:18:58,276 --> 00:19:00,196 Speaker 1: If you'd have told me that I would have started 349 00:19:00,236 --> 00:19:03,036 Speaker 1: a community of tens of thousands of Harry Potter fans, 350 00:19:03,036 --> 00:19:05,716 Speaker 1: I would have been very surprised, because honestly, I didn't 351 00:19:05,716 --> 00:19:08,276 Speaker 1: create it. I just made the first invitation to a 352 00:19:08,316 --> 00:19:11,196 Speaker 1: few people, and so I really hope people know that 353 00:19:11,236 --> 00:19:14,796 Speaker 1: they can create community. Casper's work shows that we can 354 00:19:14,876 --> 00:19:17,916 Speaker 1: fight collective loneliness. We just need a way to actually 355 00:19:17,916 --> 00:19:20,996 Speaker 1: meet people who share our hobbies. If you like basketball, 356 00:19:21,156 --> 00:19:23,316 Speaker 1: go watch a game out in the world rather than 357 00:19:23,356 --> 00:19:25,716 Speaker 1: catching it in your living room. Don't just give money 358 00:19:25,716 --> 00:19:28,956 Speaker 1: to a good cause. Try volunteering that band you play 359 00:19:28,996 --> 00:19:31,956 Speaker 1: on repeat on Spotify, try catching their next concert in 360 00:19:31,996 --> 00:19:35,516 Speaker 1: person and meeting fellow fans. And Casper is quick to 361 00:19:35,556 --> 00:19:38,316 Speaker 1: point out that collective community doesn't need to involve a 362 00:19:38,396 --> 00:19:40,916 Speaker 1: huge crowd. All it takes is inviting one or two 363 00:19:40,956 --> 00:19:43,356 Speaker 1: people maybe over to share our meal. Maybe you're going 364 00:19:43,396 --> 00:19:45,476 Speaker 1: to go for a walk together, to just talk about 365 00:19:45,476 --> 00:19:47,996 Speaker 1: something that you love, and that so often these communities 366 00:19:48,116 --> 00:19:51,396 Speaker 1: organically will grow. So those are some strategies for fighting 367 00:19:51,436 --> 00:19:55,316 Speaker 1: collective loneliness, that first type of loneliness that be vague identified. 368 00:19:55,756 --> 00:19:57,716 Speaker 1: But how can we tackle the other two kinds of 369 00:19:57,756 --> 00:20:00,636 Speaker 1: loneliness that plague so many of us. How can we 370 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:03,116 Speaker 1: find a new group of friends to connect with relationally, 371 00:20:03,796 --> 00:20:06,316 Speaker 1: or that one bestie with whom we can talk more intimately. 372 00:20:06,876 --> 00:20:10,276 Speaker 1: We'll talk about strategies for creating these deep relationships when 373 00:20:10,276 --> 00:20:22,596 Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab returns from the break. So I would 374 00:20:22,596 --> 00:20:24,796 Speaker 1: certainly be really nervous about moving to a new place 375 00:20:24,796 --> 00:20:27,996 Speaker 1: where I didn't really know anyone. Marissa Franco was experiencing 376 00:20:27,996 --> 00:20:30,236 Speaker 1: a challenge that many of us faced in the modern day, 377 00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:33,876 Speaker 1: relocating to a new city for work. She had just 378 00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:36,356 Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta, and in addition to finding a new 379 00:20:36,396 --> 00:20:38,876 Speaker 1: place to live and figuring out a new commute, she 380 00:20:38,956 --> 00:20:41,716 Speaker 1: also struggled with the need to completely rebuild her friendship 381 00:20:41,756 --> 00:20:45,556 Speaker 1: network from scratch. At first, I was like, really intentional 382 00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:47,716 Speaker 1: about trying to meet new people. You know, I went 383 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:50,716 Speaker 1: to happy hours, I went to events, but it seemed 384 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:53,036 Speaker 1: like nothing was really sticking. You know. I met a 385 00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:55,476 Speaker 1: couple of new people, but then it wouldn't really go anywhere. 386 00:20:55,876 --> 00:20:58,716 Speaker 1: Marissa as a fellow psychologist, so she decided to take 387 00:20:58,756 --> 00:21:02,556 Speaker 1: a scientific approach and to quantify her experience. She knew 388 00:21:02,596 --> 00:21:05,996 Speaker 1: about the famed UCLA Loneliness questionnaire, and I was like, 389 00:21:05,996 --> 00:21:08,876 Speaker 1: why didn't I take it? And when I took it, 390 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:12,076 Speaker 1: I realized that I was lonely. I thought, I'm around 391 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:14,236 Speaker 1: people all day, how could I be lonely? But I 392 00:21:14,276 --> 00:21:17,196 Speaker 1: think in that moment, I realized that loneliness is actually 393 00:21:17,196 --> 00:21:21,636 Speaker 1: about feeling comfortable around people, feeling like yourself, feeling authentic 394 00:21:21,676 --> 00:21:25,076 Speaker 1: around people, feeling seen around people. So I realized I 395 00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:28,396 Speaker 1: was lonely and I was struggling to make friends. But 396 00:21:28,476 --> 00:21:31,796 Speaker 1: Marissa knew what steps to take next because she's not 397 00:21:31,876 --> 00:21:34,716 Speaker 1: just a psychologist, she's also an expert on the science 398 00:21:34,756 --> 00:21:37,796 Speaker 1: of friendship, an author of Platonic How the Science of 399 00:21:37,796 --> 00:21:40,636 Speaker 1: Attachment can help you make and keep friends as an adult. 400 00:21:41,076 --> 00:21:43,596 Speaker 1: If anyone should understand the importance of having a squad, 401 00:21:43,796 --> 00:21:48,076 Speaker 1: it's Marissa. I mean friendships. There's some research that finds 402 00:21:48,076 --> 00:21:50,636 Speaker 1: that it brings us joy more than our other relationships. 403 00:21:50,636 --> 00:21:53,476 Speaker 1: And I think part of that is because friends aren't 404 00:21:53,556 --> 00:21:56,516 Speaker 1: encumbered with the same responsibility and weight. There's just not 405 00:21:56,556 --> 00:21:59,316 Speaker 1: the same level of obligation. I don't have to talk 406 00:21:59,356 --> 00:22:01,996 Speaker 1: to my friends about doing our taxes together. I don't 407 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:04,396 Speaker 1: have to talk to them about planning for groceries. So 408 00:22:04,436 --> 00:22:06,636 Speaker 1: there's this way that friendship just ends up being this 409 00:22:06,676 --> 00:22:09,636 Speaker 1: relationship of sort of pleasure. And they also think that 410 00:22:09,716 --> 00:22:12,436 Speaker 1: because there's no pressure to have friends like there is 411 00:22:12,436 --> 00:22:15,116 Speaker 1: to be in a romantic relationship, that we end up 412 00:22:15,196 --> 00:22:18,916 Speaker 1: choosing friends that are truly sort of compatible with us. 413 00:22:19,236 --> 00:22:21,956 Speaker 1: Relocating to Atlanta made it difficult for Marissa to keep 414 00:22:21,956 --> 00:22:24,836 Speaker 1: in contact with our old friends. But the science shows 415 00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:27,196 Speaker 1: it's not just a cross country move that can upset 416 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:31,116 Speaker 1: the fragility of our friendship circles. Every seven years, we'd 417 00:22:31,156 --> 00:22:35,556 Speaker 1: lose about half our friends. Friendship networks have been shrinking 418 00:22:35,556 --> 00:22:37,996 Speaker 1: for the last thirty years. I think we're in a 419 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:41,756 Speaker 1: time of great crisis around friends. There's other research that 420 00:22:41,836 --> 00:22:44,316 Speaker 1: finds that the average person hasn't made a new friend 421 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:46,676 Speaker 1: in the last five years, even though about half of 422 00:22:46,716 --> 00:22:48,516 Speaker 1: people report that they would like to make a new 423 00:22:48,596 --> 00:22:51,756 Speaker 1: friend if they only knew how. The problem is that 424 00:22:51,796 --> 00:22:54,756 Speaker 1: our minds lie to us about how friendships work. We 425 00:22:54,796 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 1: assume they just kind of happen, And to be fair, 426 00:22:57,676 --> 00:23:00,116 Speaker 1: this assumption fits with how many of our friendships did 427 00:23:00,156 --> 00:23:03,316 Speaker 1: develop when we were younger. Making friends back then was 428 00:23:03,356 --> 00:23:05,876 Speaker 1: often as simple as going through some shared experiences at 429 00:23:05,876 --> 00:23:09,076 Speaker 1: camp or in school or college. But Morris has found 430 00:23:09,276 --> 00:23:11,676 Speaker 1: that's not how it works later in adulthood. I think 431 00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:14,516 Speaker 1: one of the biggest misconceptions that I hear when it 432 00:23:14,516 --> 00:23:17,876 Speaker 1: comes to making friends is I want it to happen organically. 433 00:23:17,916 --> 00:23:20,196 Speaker 1: I want these friends to kind of fall into my life. 434 00:23:20,276 --> 00:23:22,516 Speaker 1: And there's a study that kind of tested these beliefs 435 00:23:22,596 --> 00:23:24,796 Speaker 1: and how they'd affect us over time, and it found 436 00:23:24,796 --> 00:23:27,436 Speaker 1: that people that thought friendship was something that happened based 437 00:23:27,436 --> 00:23:30,916 Speaker 1: on luck were actually lonelier years later, whereas those people 438 00:23:30,956 --> 00:23:33,916 Speaker 1: that saw it as happening based on effort were less 439 00:23:33,956 --> 00:23:36,276 Speaker 1: likely to be lonely years later. So it really does 440 00:23:36,396 --> 00:23:40,636 Speaker 1: take initiative intentionality to go out there and make friends, 441 00:23:40,956 --> 00:23:43,756 Speaker 1: which raises a question, why aren't we putting ourselves out 442 00:23:43,796 --> 00:23:46,196 Speaker 1: there more often in order to make friends and fight 443 00:23:46,276 --> 00:23:49,636 Speaker 1: our relational loneliness. The first issue for many of us, 444 00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:53,396 Speaker 1: including me, is time. Studies suggests we feel busier than 445 00:23:53,436 --> 00:23:56,596 Speaker 1: ever and time famine is a recipe for engaging less 446 00:23:56,636 --> 00:23:59,196 Speaker 1: with other people. But an even bigger issue is that 447 00:23:59,236 --> 00:24:01,476 Speaker 1: many of us are kind of anxious when it comes 448 00:24:01,476 --> 00:24:04,356 Speaker 1: to making new friends, which stems at least in part 449 00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:06,996 Speaker 1: from yet another way our minds lie to us, a 450 00:24:06,996 --> 00:24:11,356 Speaker 1: common cognitive bias known as the liking gap. These researchers 451 00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:14,996 Speaker 1: they had strangers interacts across a number of settings, and 452 00:24:15,036 --> 00:24:18,516 Speaker 1: they found that in general, people underestimated the degree to 453 00:24:18,596 --> 00:24:21,236 Speaker 1: which the person they interacted with like them. And so 454 00:24:21,316 --> 00:24:23,836 Speaker 1: I think what this research suggests is that people like 455 00:24:24,076 --> 00:24:26,276 Speaker 1: us more than we think they do. And one of 456 00:24:26,276 --> 00:24:29,276 Speaker 1: my biggest pieces of advice for people to help them 457 00:24:29,316 --> 00:24:31,996 Speaker 1: get into the mindset to make friends is start assuming 458 00:24:32,036 --> 00:24:34,996 Speaker 1: that people like you. It's a mindset that even Marissa 459 00:24:35,036 --> 00:24:37,436 Speaker 1: has had to use for herself when making new friends. 460 00:24:37,756 --> 00:24:39,516 Speaker 1: You know, I actually go into this place where I 461 00:24:39,556 --> 00:24:42,436 Speaker 1: remind myself people are going to accept me. That's sort 462 00:24:42,476 --> 00:24:45,996 Speaker 1: of my new internal dialogue. But overcoming the liking gap 463 00:24:45,996 --> 00:24:48,476 Speaker 1: and changing your mindset is only the first step to 464 00:24:48,516 --> 00:24:51,356 Speaker 1: reducing our anxiety when it comes to connecting with new people. 465 00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:54,116 Speaker 1: We also have to commit to accepting the small bouts 466 00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:57,156 Speaker 1: of anxiety that come from actually engaging with the people 467 00:24:57,196 --> 00:25:01,156 Speaker 1: we meet. It's a discomfort, I know well myself. I'll 468 00:25:01,196 --> 00:25:03,236 Speaker 1: be at a house party and I'll start feeling weird 469 00:25:03,236 --> 00:25:05,956 Speaker 1: about chatting with strangers, so I'll spend the entire time 470 00:25:06,076 --> 00:25:08,756 Speaker 1: looking at my phone or hanging out with the host's cap. 471 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:10,996 Speaker 1: Or I'll go to a new yoga studio in order 472 00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 1: to meet new people, but then I'll sprint off as 473 00:25:13,316 --> 00:25:16,396 Speaker 1: soon as class ends without chatting with anybody. Something that 474 00:25:16,436 --> 00:25:20,076 Speaker 1: I've talked about is the idea of covert or overt avoidance. 475 00:25:20,156 --> 00:25:22,716 Speaker 1: So overt avoidance is, you know, we're kind of nervous 476 00:25:22,756 --> 00:25:25,436 Speaker 1: about meeting new people, so we don't put ourselves out there. 477 00:25:25,676 --> 00:25:28,476 Speaker 1: But then covert avoidance is that we do put ourselves 478 00:25:28,476 --> 00:25:30,476 Speaker 1: out there. We do show up at the event, but 479 00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:32,876 Speaker 1: when we do, we don't engage with people. While we're there. 480 00:25:32,956 --> 00:25:35,636 Speaker 1: We're watching the game, we're playing with the dog. And 481 00:25:35,716 --> 00:25:38,276 Speaker 1: I think to make friends we have to really overcome 482 00:25:38,596 --> 00:25:41,116 Speaker 1: both of these forms of avoidance. We need to show up, 483 00:25:41,156 --> 00:25:42,756 Speaker 1: and then when we get there, we need to start 484 00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:47,276 Speaker 1: introducing ourselves, saying hello. Overcoming this hurdle of covert avoidance 485 00:25:47,516 --> 00:25:50,476 Speaker 1: is especially important for people who suffer from social anxiety. 486 00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:53,516 Speaker 1: So they'll, for example, they won't talk too much, you know, 487 00:25:53,556 --> 00:25:56,636 Speaker 1: when the conversation gets quiet, they'll start disengaging and playing 488 00:25:56,636 --> 00:25:58,876 Speaker 1: on their phone. And all of these are behaviors for 489 00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:02,276 Speaker 1: their own self protection. But it turns out that when 490 00:26:02,316 --> 00:26:05,076 Speaker 1: they're engaging in these behaviors, they make rejection more likely. 491 00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:07,596 Speaker 1: So when the researchers told the people with social anxiety 492 00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:10,436 Speaker 1: stop using those safety behaviors, they were more open, they 493 00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:14,036 Speaker 1: were more engaged, and actually their interaction partner like them more. So, 494 00:26:14,076 --> 00:26:16,356 Speaker 1: I think when it comes to making friends, there's all 495 00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:19,716 Speaker 1: these things that we might do to protect ourselves from rejection, 496 00:26:19,876 --> 00:26:23,316 Speaker 1: like not seeming too interested, not seeming too enthusiastic, and 497 00:26:23,356 --> 00:26:25,676 Speaker 1: in fact, the other person is afraid of rejection too, 498 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:28,436 Speaker 1: so when we do those behaviors, the other person is like, oh, 499 00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:32,636 Speaker 1: that person is rejecting me. Overcoming our relational loneliness requires 500 00:26:32,636 --> 00:26:35,796 Speaker 1: remembering that other people are feeling the exact same anxieties 501 00:26:35,836 --> 00:26:39,156 Speaker 1: we are. The science shows that taking the first step 502 00:26:39,236 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 1: and making them feel more comfortable will often lead to 503 00:26:42,156 --> 00:26:46,316 Speaker 1: more connection than we expect, but Marissa admits doing this 504 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:50,476 Speaker 1: isn't easy, even for a friendship expert like her. When 505 00:26:50,516 --> 00:26:52,996 Speaker 1: she first moved into a new apartment block, she made 506 00:26:52,996 --> 00:26:56,476 Speaker 1: little progress befriending her neighbors. We pass it in the hallway, 507 00:26:56,676 --> 00:26:59,196 Speaker 1: and you know, I say a quick high, but don't 508 00:26:59,236 --> 00:27:02,556 Speaker 1: really interact with them. Marissa's partner witnessed this and immediately 509 00:27:02,556 --> 00:27:05,036 Speaker 1: called her out. Marissa, you need to take your own advice. 510 00:27:05,156 --> 00:27:07,156 Speaker 1: Go over there and introduce yourself. And so we sort 511 00:27:07,156 --> 00:27:08,836 Speaker 1: of pushes me out the door. And so then I 512 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:10,916 Speaker 1: go to them and I say, you know, hey, my 513 00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:13,276 Speaker 1: names Marissa. I just moved into the department building. It's 514 00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:16,596 Speaker 1: so nice to meet you. We start talking, we exchange 515 00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:20,156 Speaker 1: phone numbers, we end up forming a WhatsApp group, and 516 00:27:20,196 --> 00:27:23,796 Speaker 1: then every week during the pandemic we've done a socially 517 00:27:23,796 --> 00:27:26,356 Speaker 1: distanced gathering in the garden. And I look back and 518 00:27:26,396 --> 00:27:28,436 Speaker 1: I'm like, it would have been so easy for that 519 00:27:28,476 --> 00:27:30,876 Speaker 1: to not happen, right. I think sometimes we think, you know, 520 00:27:31,076 --> 00:27:33,436 Speaker 1: it won't make a difference if I reach out to people, like, 521 00:27:33,556 --> 00:27:35,116 Speaker 1: you know, the social world that we live in is 522 00:27:35,156 --> 00:27:37,436 Speaker 1: outside of our control. But I think that really showed 523 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:39,996 Speaker 1: me that our social worlds are very much within our control, 524 00:27:40,036 --> 00:27:42,996 Speaker 1: and there are intentional actions we can take that can 525 00:27:43,036 --> 00:27:46,316 Speaker 1: really change the trajectory of our friendships. Can we use 526 00:27:46,356 --> 00:27:49,516 Speaker 1: similar kinds of intentional actions to move from mere relational 527 00:27:49,516 --> 00:27:53,116 Speaker 1: closeness to the more intimate kinds of friendships that third 528 00:27:53,196 --> 00:27:56,396 Speaker 1: category of social connection that the vague Murphy mentioned earlier? 529 00:27:56,996 --> 00:27:59,116 Speaker 1: Are there steps we can take to turn a regular 530 00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 1: relational friend into a ride or die bestie. Ultimately, when 531 00:28:03,356 --> 00:28:05,636 Speaker 1: it comes to making friends, people think the people that 532 00:28:05,676 --> 00:28:08,036 Speaker 1: are good at making friends are really cool, or really smart, 533 00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:10,556 Speaker 1: or really accomplished. But in fact, what I find from 534 00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:12,716 Speaker 1: the research is that the people that are really good 535 00:28:12,756 --> 00:28:15,556 Speaker 1: at making friends are really good at making other people 536 00:28:15,596 --> 00:28:18,876 Speaker 1: feel like they matter. They're good at affirming other people, 537 00:28:19,356 --> 00:28:22,276 Speaker 1: and surprisingly, one of the best ways to affirm another person, 538 00:28:22,636 --> 00:28:25,196 Speaker 1: to make them feel valued and special, is to get 539 00:28:25,316 --> 00:28:28,796 Speaker 1: really vulnerable in front of them, voluntarily sharing a problem 540 00:28:28,836 --> 00:28:31,836 Speaker 1: and asking for help, intentionally admitting that you're struggling and 541 00:28:31,916 --> 00:28:34,756 Speaker 1: not sure what to do, even shedding and embarrassing tier. 542 00:28:35,276 --> 00:28:37,996 Speaker 1: We assume that such overt displays of our own weaknesses 543 00:28:38,036 --> 00:28:41,356 Speaker 1: would make potential besties avoid us like the plague, But 544 00:28:41,436 --> 00:28:43,996 Speaker 1: this is yet another spot where our minds lie to us. 545 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:47,076 Speaker 1: It's a bias that German psychologists on A. Brook and 546 00:28:47,116 --> 00:28:50,596 Speaker 1: her colleagues have christened the beautiful mess effect, which is 547 00:28:50,636 --> 00:28:54,596 Speaker 1: basically the idea that when we're vulnerable, people actually perceive 548 00:28:54,676 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 1: us a lot more positively than we think they do. 549 00:28:57,636 --> 00:29:00,476 Speaker 1: People actually like it when we're vulnerable. It makes them 550 00:29:00,516 --> 00:29:03,556 Speaker 1: feel special to hear our intimate struggles, and it allows 551 00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:06,556 Speaker 1: them the opportunity to share more intimately with us. Our 552 00:29:06,596 --> 00:29:09,836 Speaker 1: messiness is far more beautiful to potential friends. Then. We 553 00:29:09,916 --> 00:29:12,836 Speaker 1: think a lot of the things that we think burden 554 00:29:12,956 --> 00:29:16,556 Speaker 1: people bring us closer to one another. So, for example, 555 00:29:16,796 --> 00:29:20,796 Speaker 1: showing vulnerability in general, the more we disclose intimately to others, 556 00:29:20,836 --> 00:29:23,596 Speaker 1: the more they like us. And it's so interesting because 557 00:29:23,596 --> 00:29:25,036 Speaker 1: we tend to think, you know, we're going to push 558 00:29:25,116 --> 00:29:27,236 Speaker 1: other people away, they're going to think we're too much, 559 00:29:27,276 --> 00:29:31,156 Speaker 1: But in fact, that vulnerability conveys that we are authentic, 560 00:29:31,316 --> 00:29:33,796 Speaker 1: that we are honest, that we trust them, and all 561 00:29:33,836 --> 00:29:36,716 Speaker 1: of these things bring people closer to us. Just as 562 00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:39,796 Speaker 1: initiating the contact needed to build up our relational connections 563 00:29:39,876 --> 00:29:42,916 Speaker 1: involves a bit of courage, so too to cementing more 564 00:29:42,916 --> 00:29:46,996 Speaker 1: intimate friendships. But if we value fighting loneliness, it's critical 565 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:49,756 Speaker 1: to take this scary step. We need to open up, 566 00:29:49,956 --> 00:29:53,076 Speaker 1: reveal our inner selves, and share things we often keep hidden. 567 00:29:53,516 --> 00:29:56,756 Speaker 1: But mrs Is scene firsthand that following the scientific advice 568 00:29:57,036 --> 00:30:00,396 Speaker 1: really can reduce loneliness. I feel like I'm living proof. 569 00:30:00,476 --> 00:30:03,836 Speaker 1: I mean, since I've started studying friendship, I have become 570 00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:08,796 Speaker 1: so much better at taking initiative. I realize that I 571 00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:12,556 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to be an amazing, magnificent person to 572 00:30:12,676 --> 00:30:14,556 Speaker 1: be an attractive friend. That all I have to do 573 00:30:14,676 --> 00:30:16,996 Speaker 1: is make other people feel loved and valued. And so 574 00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:19,636 Speaker 1: that's my bigger priority now around my friendship. It's not 575 00:30:19,676 --> 00:30:22,916 Speaker 1: being special, or being funny, or being particularly insightful. It's 576 00:30:23,076 --> 00:30:25,396 Speaker 1: making sure that I treat my friends in ways that 577 00:30:25,436 --> 00:30:28,476 Speaker 1: align with how much I love them. The research shows 578 00:30:28,516 --> 00:30:30,796 Speaker 1: that lots and lots of us have something in common 579 00:30:30,796 --> 00:30:33,316 Speaker 1: with Young Vivic back in that nineteen eighties school yard. 580 00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:36,196 Speaker 1: Many of us are surrounded by people all the time, 581 00:30:36,596 --> 00:30:38,836 Speaker 1: but we're still not enjoying the full range of human 582 00:30:38,876 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 1: interactions we need to be happy. We might not feel 583 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:44,436 Speaker 1: like we're part of a community, or a crew of friends, 584 00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:48,116 Speaker 1: or a close relationship like Young Vivic. We might be 585 00:30:48,196 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 1: saddened and ashamed by our loneliness. We might curse all 586 00:30:51,636 --> 00:30:54,636 Speaker 1: our imagined shortcomings and whish there was something we could 587 00:30:54,676 --> 00:30:57,916 Speaker 1: do to feel more connected. But I hope this episode 588 00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:00,716 Speaker 1: has shown you that finding friends doesn't require luck or 589 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:03,716 Speaker 1: the perfect personality. Like most of the good things we 590 00:31:03,756 --> 00:31:07,436 Speaker 1: talk about in this podcast, connecting better requires understanding some 591 00:31:07,516 --> 00:31:09,796 Speaker 1: of the mind's lies and then putting in some time 592 00:31:09,836 --> 00:31:13,996 Speaker 1: and work. But the science shows that with a little initiative, 593 00:31:14,196 --> 00:31:18,196 Speaker 1: we can begin building the foundations of nourishing relationships, whether 594 00:31:18,276 --> 00:31:20,596 Speaker 1: they're casual and breezy and based on the love we 595 00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:23,716 Speaker 1: have for our favorite book or intimate and personal based 596 00:31:23,756 --> 00:31:26,116 Speaker 1: on revealing our inner world to the people we meet. 597 00:31:26,476 --> 00:31:28,956 Speaker 1: It is a lot of work, even for the experts, 598 00:31:29,276 --> 00:31:32,596 Speaker 1: but a less lonely life is possible and the benefits 599 00:31:32,636 --> 00:31:45,036 Speaker 1: are huge for your health and your happiness. The Happiness 600 00:31:45,116 --> 00:31:47,956 Speaker 1: Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley, Emily 601 00:31:47,996 --> 00:31:51,996 Speaker 1: Anne Vaughan, and Courtney Guerino. Our original music was composed 602 00:31:51,996 --> 00:31:55,596 Speaker 1: by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing and mastering by 603 00:31:55,596 --> 00:32:00,196 Speaker 1: Evan Viola. Special thanks to Milabelle heather Thing, John Snars, 604 00:32:00,356 --> 00:32:04,996 Speaker 1: Carli Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Brandt Haynes, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, 605 00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:09,196 Speaker 1: Nicole Morano, Royston Preserved, Jacob Weisberg and my Age, and 606 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:12,476 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 607 00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:16,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and Nate Doctor Laurie Santos. To find more 608 00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:20,596 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 609 00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:22,116 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts.