1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,479 Speaker 1: O la la la caa motes Happy holidays, if elis nochebuena, 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: if you celebrate, We hope you get to rest and 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: take care during this holiday season. We know the holidays 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: can be a stressful or difficult time for some, which 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: is why we're re releasing an episode from the archives. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, we interviewed Yoletta Fernandez, a Mexican 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: American therapist who unpacks the different ways estrangement shows up 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: in our communities. She created a platform called latinx Estrangement 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,639 Speaker 1: to support folks who don't feel safe and supported by 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: their families. In this episode, she defines estrangement, low contact, 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: no contact, and how to create an exit strategy when 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: you're ready to leave the family gathering. All right, here's 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: our interview with Yoletta. 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: Ready. What I appreciate about this topic and Violetta and 15 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: the conversation and her interview is that this is not 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: focused on like fixing a problem. It's not focused on 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: repairing a relationship or bringing folks back together or healing 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: or moving forward. It's just really facing like kind of 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: an ugly thing in the face and just like talking 20 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: about it and just dealing with it, which is sometimes 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: what you have to do in life. So I think 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 2: that a lot of folks out there are going to 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 2: appreciate the interview for the same reason. 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: It really makes reflect like some things can't be repaired, 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: some relationships are beyond repair, and it's how you take 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: care of yourself in that aftermath. A little bit about 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: our guest, Violetta Fernandez. She's a Mexican American licensed clinical 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: social worker and therapist who works with clients in both 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: California and THEJAS. She supports folks who don't feel safe 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: and supported by their families. She has a project platform 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: called LATINX Estrangement, and she's joining us today to talk 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: about how estrangement shows up in various ways in our communities. 33 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: We briefly started talking about estrangement and LATINX family and 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: we saw a lot of comments and engagement and folks 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: really wanting to go further into this topic of estrangement 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: in our LATINX families. So we have the distinct honor 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: of interviewing today Fioleta Fernandez, who runs an online platform 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: called LATINX Estrangement. 39 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: Hi, ladies, thank you for having me here. Yes, I'm 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: Boleta my pronouns are chive and I am the owner 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 3: of latinx Estrangement. I'm also the owner of together an Estrangement, 42 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: and I support people who do not feel safe and 43 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: supported by their families. 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: And what inspired you to create that as a platform? 45 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 3: So what inspired me to create the platform? Started one 46 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 3: with my own experience. I've been in no contact with 47 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: my family for about five years overall five years, but 48 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 3: it started the day after Christmas in twenty eighteen. My 49 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: parents had ended their relationship with me, and then following 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 3: that with my brothers who ended their relationship with me. 51 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: And so of course that encompass is like studied family 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 3: and all that, and so then come like twenty twenty one. 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: At that point, I started therapy and then that led 54 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: me into just processing my own family trauma and rebuilding 55 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 3: the relationship with myself and my daughter. But at the 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: same time I had started, I had entered private practice, 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 3: and I started working and was mentored by Adriana A Lejandre, 58 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 3: and she was like, you know, mentoring me and starting 59 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: my practice, and she said, okay, well you need to 60 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 3: pick a topic and market yourself. And I thought, well, 61 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: what do I want to focus on? And I should say, 62 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: I am a mental health therapist, so that's what you know. 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: My services included was therapy. So I thought, well, I 64 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 3: have my experience that I know really well, but I 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: didn't have the language for it. So then that led 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: me to just doing research on adult children who have 67 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: been abandoned by their parents. I knew it happened within 68 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 3: queer communities, but the reason I was disowned didn't have 69 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: anything to do with my queer identity. They didn't even know. 70 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: And so then I narrowed down my research to daughter 71 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: and then to Latina daughters. And that's why I was 72 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: just you go down that rabbit hole and you start 73 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: just collecting so much information, and then it was just 74 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: a matter of sharing my story. It was pretty heavy 75 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 3: at first, but then more people started relating and commenting 76 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, there's other daughters too, Daughter. 77 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: Is that again? I know what happens within the queer community, 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 3: but their reasoning had more to do with not meeting 79 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: the expectations of their family and playing the role that 80 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: they were assigned as far as like being providers. 81 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for giving that context by I have a follow 82 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: up question, but before we go any further, can you 83 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: define what estrangement is for folks hearing it for the 84 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: first time or curious. 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 3: So estrangement essentially is the loss of closeness, and that 86 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: can be emotional, fan or physically. Typically you hear about 87 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: it with married couples, romantic couples. You'll hear about like, oh, 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: so and so it's a strange husband. But in this 89 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: case it's going to be in the context of family, 90 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: and so that is essentially like the distance that comes 91 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: about for different reasons. It can be because you have 92 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 3: been disowned, like in my case, being disowned and being 93 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: pushed out of your family, and other cases it is 94 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: because we'll say, in this case, like adult children or 95 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: family members start creating distance most of the time for 96 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: a sense of safety. But again, it is that loss 97 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: of closeness. 98 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the conversations that I've 99 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: seen on the internet involving estrangement and boundary setting have 100 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: to do with us as the daughters setting boundaries or 101 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: cutting off other family members or parents or godparents, aunts 102 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: and uncles, older family members. But your story is a 103 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: little bit different from what I've been seeing in sort 104 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: of the kind of viral chatter online in that your parents, 105 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: and then, as you described earlier, your brothers they ended 106 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: their relationships with you. And I'm really curious if you 107 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 2: would be comfortable in sharing with us how how did 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: your relationships with your parents and your brothers get to 109 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: that place? 110 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 3: Sure, no, thank you for asking. Well, one is to 111 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: know that there's been a history of family violence that 112 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: has been ongoing, and once you start becoming an older 113 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 3: teenager adult, it starts to evolve into emotional and verbal abuse, 114 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: but so much of it is normalized, so you know, 115 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: you just tolerated. And so then at that time, you know, 116 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: I'm going to school to become a social worker, and 117 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: I was, you know, gaining a lot of awareness. My 118 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: grad program was focused on DV but even then, like 119 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: I still didn't make the connection of what I was 120 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 3: currently going through. And so come to twenty seventeen. At 121 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: this point, I started living in LA and I had 122 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: now that space where they don't have as much access 123 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: to me. Well, I'm able to create a community of 124 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 3: my own outside of my family, and then that's where 125 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: the discussion of boundaries. I was working in South Central 126 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 3: at a community clinic and it just you know, I 127 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 3: was just learning more and throughout my careers. So once 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 3: my parents really started to talk to me in certain ways, 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: my friends would encourage me, like, hey, you don't have 130 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: to put up with that, you can say something, and 131 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: I had like, really no, I didn't have many like 132 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: healthy boundaries at that time, and so at some point 133 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: I was like, I don't like the way you talk 134 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 3: to me. And when you grow up with family violence, 135 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: you you say it very carefully. You're not it's very careful, 136 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: you approach topic carefully. You know, met with a lot 137 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,559 Speaker 3: of hostility, and it was I mean, it was straight 138 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 3: up it was like i'll talk to you. How are 139 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: the fuck I want to talk to you? And so 140 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 3: after that it was just constant chaos and you know, 141 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 3: being told, well, you're not allowed to talk about mental 142 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: health anymore. And then it's just so many things that 143 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: led up to that. And then when I started questioning 144 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: my mom's mental health. At that time, she had been 145 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: diagnosed with cirrhosis, so I started asking questions so that 146 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: would be shut down. So then kind the holidays, I'm 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: going back home for Christmas, and I was like, I'm 148 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: not going to be staying with you there, and that 149 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: just took it to another level. And that was where 150 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: there they perceived me to be picking my friends over them, 151 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 3: and it was just a lot of tension building up 152 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 3: also with my brother but mind you, with my brothers, 153 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: they my brothers could go at it with my dad 154 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: like there's no tomorrow, but my brothers have never been disowned. 155 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 3: And so once the day after Christmas, my dad is 156 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: upset and he's sent in a group chat. So the 157 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: public shaming comes in and he was no longer going 158 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 3: to have a relationship with me. Mind you, at that time, 159 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: that's when you see and a lot of families, alliances 160 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 3: are formed. And so at that time, my other brother, 161 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 3: you know, he's struggling with his own mental health issues. 162 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: But women are disposable, so if there's conflict, my brothers 163 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: have gone down that path, as my parents are like okay, 164 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: well you're blocked and I don't want nothing to do 165 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 3: with you. And so it really left me and I 166 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 3: think for a lot of people like, well shit am 167 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: I doing? Like is it me and and my the problem? 168 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 3: But you recognize the patterns and if it wasn't for 169 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: therapy reminding me like, well you didn't pick this, or 170 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: even if I had, there were enough justifiable reasons to 171 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: create that distance. But for them, I'm not I'm challenging. 172 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 3: I'm a threat to them because what they know is 173 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 3: to control. That is their sense of safety. So me 174 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: speaking up or just asking questions that just was not 175 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: acceptable in my family. 176 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, what you're saying really resonates, like the cycle breaker 177 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: or the disruptor, right can come in and kind of 178 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: re examine and look at the family structure, and then 179 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: the family doesn't like that. And yeah, there's definitely a 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: lot of examples I can think of in my own 181 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: family where like alliance's form, or you know, someone doesn't 182 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: like what the others said, and it just it can 183 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: escalate very quickly. So I want to thank you also 184 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: for sharing your story and you know, being vulnerable with 185 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: us today. Following up about specifically the LATINX community, I 186 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: saw on Instagram that you wrote in a graphic about 187 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: family estrangement in our community is diverse, personal and ambiguous. 188 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: Can you talk about that more and why do you 189 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: describe it this way in the LATINX community. 190 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: Sure, Well, you know, it's kind of like what Mala 191 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 3: said is like, even though I've been this song, I 192 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 3: would say there's so many that they're the ones having 193 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 3: to be more intentional with creating distance. But I always 194 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: remind people like that didn't happen overnight. There's been that 195 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: distance for a while that a lot of them have 196 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: been experiencing from their families, like being pushed away or 197 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: rejected or just not being interested in their daughters. But 198 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 3: either way, it's like sometimes it's just more intentional when 199 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 3: you're saying, hey, I'm gonna I'm not coming over for 200 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: Christmas or for your birthday. And then there's also some 201 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: who are gonna stay in contact with their families, but 202 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: they have, you know, their boundaries, and that's what we 203 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: call low contact versus no contact. Low contact is more 204 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: the emotional estrangement where you're not sharing personal details about 205 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: your life. It's pretty superficial. It's just always say bare minimum. 206 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 3: And then with the no contact that can be off 207 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 3: and on, but there's definitely less physical access to someone 208 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: along of course with the emotional. So it's diverse and 209 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 3: the reasons vary. There can be anything from in some cases, 210 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: sure it's a history of violence. In some cases it 211 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: will say migration, and combine that with parents not having 212 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: the skills and resources to build a connection with their children, 213 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: so it's not as intentional the neglect. And then in 214 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: some cases it may be that families have cognitive impairments, 215 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: they may have mental illnesses that don't allow them to 216 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 3: understand how to connect with their children or other family members. 217 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 3: And it's ambiguous as well, because, for instance, kind of 218 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 3: think about the silent treatment, you have a lot of 219 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: parents that are like, well, you can come over. The 220 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: thing is that they're not welcoming you, and so it's 221 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 3: very that indifference is very hard, it's subtle, it's very 222 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: hard to identify. And then you have the push pul 223 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 3: where you have families that are really they're rejecting you, 224 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: but then at the same time they're saying, oh, it 225 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: wasn't that serious, let it go. And then they go 226 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 3: back to this cycle, the typical cycle of violence, where 227 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: they then will shower you with affection and support. So 228 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 3: that's why it is it can be confusing. 229 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: It makes me think of like the family unit as 230 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: this place where you have access to resources and support, 231 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: like not just love or relationships, but like love is 232 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: a resource in some ways, or like the family home, 233 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: or you know, like a financial safety net or the 234 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: social safety net that comes with being part of a family. 235 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if in a case like yours, is 236 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: there an element of family estrangement where it's almost like 237 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: you're not going to play by our rules, we're cutting 238 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: you off from the resource that is the family. And 239 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: how resources kind of play into estrangement or like estrangement 240 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: as punishment in that way. 241 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: Oh, definitely, there is the financial abuse, and so that's why, honestly, 242 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: that's one reason why a lot of people do stay 243 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 3: in touch with their families is the need for resources. 244 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: It will say, like in California the housing crisis, there's 245 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: I've had clients that live with families and they don't 246 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 3: talk to each other. You also have the need for childcare, transportation, 247 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: and in some cases you're also the financial provider, or 248 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: you're the caregiver, or you work for the business. But 249 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 3: it's this emotional abuse that's going on where you don't 250 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 3: feel comfortable like stepping away, and so there's this constant 251 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: threat that they're going to withhold from you and for 252 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 3: well seeing the queer community, especially if you're trance, if 253 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 3: that's your only access to healthcare and housing, to step 254 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: away from that is going to be a huge loss. 255 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: So yes, there's this constant withholding of affection and resources. 256 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 3: And I would say the less the more independent you are, 257 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 3: it'll typically be more emotional resources, right, the affection and support, 258 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 3: But when you are in need for the physical resources, 259 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: there's definitely constantly threatening to withhold that. And in that case, 260 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: my dad did do that when I said I want 261 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: to move to California and well he wanted to. He 262 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: was going to take the car away. And that happens 263 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: quite a bit. And mind you, I was paying for 264 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: this car. They just signed it, but I was paying 265 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 3: for it. So so yeah, there is constant. 266 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: That threat right anywhere there's a foothold to take some 267 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: of that power back. 268 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: And once my mom passed, so while no contact, my 269 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 3: mom passed away, and then it was like, well, or 270 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: when he ended relationship with me, it's like, you're not 271 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: going to be in the inheritance. I didn't even Honestly, 272 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: it wasn't even a thought for me. But because my 273 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 3: dad had worked so hard to get out of poverty, 274 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: he knew the importance of that. But for me was 275 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: the last thing on my mind. But I think with families, 276 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: when they're trying to hurt you, they will use whatever, 277 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: and in some cases again like him, don't come to 278 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: my funeral, like they're telling you, even in death, I 279 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: don't want nothing to do with you. 280 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: I think like as a community, we're talking about, we've 281 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: been talking about or we've been practicing estrangement, right, And 282 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: that's I think one of the reasons that the clip 283 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: that we shared from our last episode resonated with a 284 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: lot of people is that estrangement is nothing new for us. 285 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: And that's something that you've said, estrangement is nothing new 286 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: for the LATINX community. Maybe we just don't call it that. 287 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: So can you expand on what you mean by that? 288 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, And I saw that clip and typically, I mean, 289 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: we don't use estrangement. To me, I always thought like 290 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: there was a super white term, and typically we just 291 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 3: say is like we don't talk, or I don't fuck 292 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: with them, or you know, I'm not that close to them, 293 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: or they just I don't have a relationship with them. 294 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: So it's pretty much that there's not again, we're just 295 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: not that close or sometimes I used to say, oh 296 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: my mom, she's just really difficult. So with that term, 297 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 3: it's not one that I used a lot. But I 298 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 3: know people are becoming more familiar with it as they 299 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: have more access to language and support in the digital community. 300 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 3: But when we look at our families and communities, I 301 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: mean when I looked at history, I remember my mom 302 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 3: saying how her mom disowned her when she got married. 303 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: And I know there's been many women in the family. 304 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 3: I was a teen mom again, I was disowned, but 305 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: I know I wasn't the first. There's been theas I 306 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: had a thea that as a little girl she was 307 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: thrown in the trash. And there's a lot of trauma 308 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: that of violence against women where they're being discarded. We 309 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 3: see even in another communities daughters being killed and none 310 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,239 Speaker 3: of that happens overnight. So there's been this, all of 311 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 3: these steps leading up to that where people are not talking. 312 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 3: And I tell people, look, the likelihood that your parents 313 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 3: have healthy relationships with friends, it's pretty low. And I 314 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: know my mom didn't have any friends. So it's just 315 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 3: to remind you, is that you're not the problem. This 316 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: has been going on because a lot of people feel 317 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: guilty about creating distance. I'm like, boo, you're not the first. 318 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: So is there is there a comparable phrase in Spanish 319 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 2: to describe this phenomenon that is estrangement. 320 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: The thing I can only think of moos Okay, there's 321 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 3: a familiar okay, But because I don't my Spanish isn't 322 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: up to par I haven't been able to really communicate, 323 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 3: like my my content, it's Spanish to where I'm super familiar. 324 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: But when I do some research, those are the two 325 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 3: things that the two terms that tend to come up. 326 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: One of the reasons this came up in our last 327 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: episode is my therapist and I have also been talking about, 328 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: you know what, as I think it's really challenging for 329 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: Latina daughters to create boundaries. We've talked about that since 330 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: the inception of Locata Radio, Latinas are not given agency. 331 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: Our mothers refuse to see us as our own people 332 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: or extensions of them. And that's a general statement, of course, 333 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: but I think it's really challenging, especially when you have 334 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: aging parents, to like set those boundaries and create distance 335 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: and create healthy boundaries and limit contact with certain people. 336 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: And so that really resonates with me. And something that 337 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: you've also advised people on or created content about is 338 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: like safety and exit plans. And I listened to another 339 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: podcast where they talked about this during the holidays, right, 340 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: gearing up for the holidays, Like how your safety exit plans, 341 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: but for latinos like that could also look different. For 342 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: the Latin community that could look different having like the 343 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: safety exit plans. So how do you advise your clients 344 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: or to anyone listening, like how can they create their 345 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: own plans? 346 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 3: Yeah? So the safety and exit plans Again, they're unique 347 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: for everybody's situation. And I remind people like, you know 348 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 3: your family better than I do, so you adjust as needed. 349 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: And it's reminding them the flexibility, it's reminding them to 350 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: practice before implementing it. So even with slow boundaries, but Wine, 351 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 3: it's they're also their comfort level. While I had the 352 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 3: privilege of saying I don't like the way you talk 353 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 3: to me, and I think you see that a lot 354 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 3: on social media as people oh just say no, just 355 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 3: say that is not easy when there's a history of 356 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 3: family violence. So my clients and I will come up 357 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: with is ideas as far as like what to say, 358 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 3: when to say it, and sometimes even getting creative. It 359 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: just depends on Wine. Do you rely on them for support? 360 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: That's a big one, especially like physical resources. Your boundaries 361 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: are going to look so different from someone who has 362 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 3: the privilege of not living with them or not relying 363 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 3: on them for support. And then the second thing is, Okay, 364 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 3: what is their comfort level? Not everybody wants to go 365 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: no contact. Not everybody wants to decline that invitation or 366 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: stop step away from their role as a provider in 367 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 3: the family. So it's finding what they're comfortable with and 368 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 3: building from there, and also remind them is you're testing 369 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 3: the waters. And this is where I bring in like 370 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: inner child healing is explore, explore, see what feels good 371 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: to you, and again being flexible and then giving them ideas. 372 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 3: Sometimes telling them no is a complete sentence. It's not 373 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: expecting them that they're gonna take that and run with it. 374 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: It's just planning these seeds because a lot of us 375 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 3: don't even realize it's an option to limit your time 376 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: with family or to say no with that, it's just 377 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 3: reminding them what their options are now. On top of that, 378 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 3: it's also building a plan in the event they aren't 379 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: met with like really serious hostility. Okay, well where you go, 380 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 3: what do you do? Who do you go for support? 381 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: But meanwhile, creating community outside of the family is really important. 382 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: If they live at home. It is finding ways if 383 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: there's a family gathering, okay, well keep moving, don't just 384 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: stay in one spot. And Mala, you had one. I 385 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 3: really loved it. Girl. It was I'm gonna go hang 386 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: out with the kids. Oh yeah, yes, go to Yeah. 387 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 3: I always remember that one. But it's, you know, finding 388 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 3: ways to be creative and we get into that, and 389 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 3: that's where they start to feel sense of agency, like 390 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,239 Speaker 3: I can't control how my family reacts to me, and 391 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: I don't know if they're ever going to change, but 392 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 3: and I'm not ready to step away, like and my 393 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 3: relationships with them. But this is how I want to 394 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: try to implement some slow boundaries and from there. If 395 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: there're no contact, it's for them. It may be that 396 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: they're getting these invites during the holidays when their families 397 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: feel vulnerable, and it's navigating the impulse to reach out 398 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: right away, or for them, they may want to actually 399 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 3: initiate the reaching out because there's still grief when you're 400 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 3: no contact or you don't have a lot of contact 401 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: with your family, So it's navigating also the emotions, and 402 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 3: so learning how to express themselves through different outlets is 403 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 3: helpful as you're creating these plans, So anyways, it's differently, 404 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: there's so many layers to it. 405 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have me thinking now estrangement in your 406 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: own experience, in your research, in your work and the 407 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: stories you've heard via VI your platform. Is estrangement always permanent? 408 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: Or can you come back from estrangement? Do people reconnect? 409 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: Is it temporary sometimes until something else happens, Like does 410 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 2: estrangement tend to be like one and done, We're we're 411 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: not talking forever and ever? Or like, how does that 412 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: tend to work in your experience? 413 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: That's a good question. Honestly. People do tend to cycle 414 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: in and now off and on, and the reasons for 415 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: that can be one. Sometimes we need access to a 416 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 3: mutual family member. I see a lot of daughters that 417 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: are not ready. They're ready to like I don't want 418 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 3: to see my dad anymore, but they want to have 419 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 3: access to siblings, to their moms, their moms that won't 420 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 3: leave their dads or vice versa. Maybe it's wanting to 421 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: have contact with their dad, but the dad doesn't won't 422 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 3: leave the mom, so that'll keep them like coming back 423 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 3: for some parents, some parents will adapt, and this is 424 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: where it's up to you how much, how many attempts 425 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: do you want to give them? How many reminders do 426 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 3: you want to give them? And I think a lot 427 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 3: of times if they see some parents, I swear they're 428 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: so unreasonable. A lot of times did they even put 429 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 3: half the effort their children will old likes still come 430 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 3: around and still keep trying with them. And so but 431 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: now we'll say, you're gonna tend to have more success 432 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: when mothers than fathers. Fathers tend to be more absent. 433 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: But there's still a lot of challenges with mothers just 434 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: because of the Typically there's a history of violence that 435 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 3: they're not ready to explore with the therapist. So final 436 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 3: answer is basically it's off and on, and then again 437 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: it's still always depends on the situation. Now, I can 438 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: tell you in some cases it's a done deal until 439 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 3: that parent or family member is aging and close to dead. 440 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: Some people may feel like, well, you know what, let 441 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 3: me go see them. But in some cases, no, that 442 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 3: ship has sailed. I know for me, let me tell 443 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 3: you something. My mom has passed away, but we're going 444 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 3: to stay no contact until I'm ready when that will be. 445 00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: I haven't decided with dad, he's getting older, at this time, 446 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, you won't be hearing from me. And even 447 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 3: though he ended his relationship estent again, they will make 448 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 3: they will send out some type of message saying that 449 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 3: they want you to go to them. My dad will 450 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 3: never come to me. But in our cultures, the children 451 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 3: go to their parents, their parents who not go to them. 452 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 3: I know my parents. They want me to go and 453 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: beg for a forgiveness of something I didn't do. But 454 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 3: for me, like that ship has sued, we on past that. 455 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: So really it's going to depend on where you're at 456 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: in life and the experiences you go through to see 457 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 3: is that going to change your mind and trying to reconnect. 458 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that you talk about this so openly 459 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: and that you have a platform. You've created a platform 460 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: to talk about estrangement and the way we show up 461 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: with our families, because I feel like when I look 462 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: at film and television and Latino Latine representation, but I 463 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: see like a very positive like the family's super close, 464 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: there's a matriarch, there's a patriarch. Everybody forgives each other 465 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: and loves each other at the end of the day, 466 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: and that's not realistic for a lot of us. Right, 467 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: A lot of us are estranged or have some type 468 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: of boundary setting or just dysfunctional, straight up dysfunctional relationship 469 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: with our families, and so to talk about it so openly, 470 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: I think is really healing for lots of people. 471 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 3: Then I think sometimes I forget and even when I 472 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 3: receive messages of what people go through, it's even validating 473 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: for me, like, Okay, I'm not the only one, because 474 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: I think most people, I feel like I'm the lucky one. 475 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: I feel, honestly a sense of liberation that I don't 476 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 3: have to deal with the men in my family and 477 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 3: other my enaghbling theas. But that's not the case for 478 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 3: like a lot of my clients and friends who really 479 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 3: struggle with the guilt of not showing up in their 480 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: families and doing the bare minimum, and it's the constant, 481 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 3: like emotional abuse that they go through. So they share 482 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 3: with me a lot of the stress of that, and 483 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 3: I feel for them, you know, and it's it takes 484 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 3: courage too, it really does. And it's also you know, 485 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 3: I'm in all of how much people are learning about 486 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 3: themselves and what they're capable of, and how they're trying 487 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 3: to unlearn what they were led to believe about themselves, 488 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 3: and a lot of times is that they weren't really 489 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: worth much effort. 490 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, lokomotives will be right back. 491 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 2: I can totally hear how like the women that you 492 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: hear from feel guilt, you know, like stepping away would 493 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: be causing harm to the people you're stepping away from. 494 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 2: So by the same token, I want to bring it 495 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: back to you. And you know, you can't speak for 496 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: your parents, and you can't get in their minds and 497 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 2: tell us what they think or feel or thought or felt. 498 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: But do you think that they carry with them any 499 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 2: guilt or regret for having put this distance and implemented 500 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: this estrangement with their daughter. 501 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 3: That's a really good question. And I've thought about that 502 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: because there's always this threat or what if I die? 503 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: You know, you better hope I don't die, but I 504 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 3: always wonder what if I die. I'm not gonna say 505 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: that your only daughter died. I never understand that. With 506 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 3: my mom, I don't know, y'all, Like I really don't know. 507 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 3: The last time I heard from her was like maybe 508 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 3: a few a couple of weeks before she passed, But 509 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: at that point she i couldn't understand what she was saying. 510 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: And I don't know, she was just a very She 511 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 3: had a lot of rage, a lot of anger. I 512 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 3: don't know if she was gonna be able to feel that. 513 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: With my dad, he is like the narcissist to the max, 514 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 3: like the elite status, and I think for him and 515 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 3: even I think even my brothers, it would be more 516 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 3: about like woe is me, Like oh, I lost a sister, 517 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: lost a daughter. I don't think it would be much 518 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: like the value of my life if I if something 519 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 3: happened to me, or in general, maybe if nothing happened 520 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: to me. Do I regret not having a relationship with 521 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: my daughter? I don't think they do feel that. I 522 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: think they may feel a sense of shame and that's 523 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: why they don't tell everybody the truth. 524 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 2: And like you said, you're the lucky one in the scenario, 525 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: you're the lucky one. 526 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: Do you feel that I feel really lucky? 527 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, this question is about what Mala just said. You know, 528 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: in our community, folks don't want to acknowledge that this 529 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: is also a side, right. It's like we're such a vibrant, beautiful, diverse. 530 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: Community, family oriented oriented. 531 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: But nobody wants to actually talk about, Like there's a 532 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: lot of dysfunction and a lot of abuse that happens 533 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: within and a lot of secrets that happen within our families. 534 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: Like why do you think that we don't want to 535 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: acknowledge this side of our community and our families. 536 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 3: I think a couple of reasons come to mind. I 537 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 3: think one the reason our community and families don't want 538 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: to talk about the dysfunction or the challenges is one shame. 539 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 3: Shame that a lot of people are still trying to 540 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: recover from just the intergenerational trauma that our families have 541 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 3: gone through, and their relationship with shame is something they 542 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: don't even like to talk about. And then the other reason, 543 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 3: I think is because once you start talking about it, 544 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: now you know more and it's going to require change 545 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 3: and for a lot of family members they benefit. I 546 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 3: think we've seen that quote we bet people benefit from 547 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: you not having boundaries like myself and so many is 548 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 3: that when we challenge our families, it's not just that, 549 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: but it's a whole family system and to disrupt that 550 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: will really cause a lot of people to feel uncomfortable. 551 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: So that's why when people make outcries people will either 552 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 3: react with hostility and or they'll they'll at the same 553 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 3: time try to cover it up. So the idea of 554 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: dysfunction is just makes people really uncomfortable from the bubbles 555 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 3: that they're in and the access to power in control 556 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 3: that they have in their families. And that's why MARIANI 557 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 3: talking about Marianismo is such a big deal. Because you 558 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: have more daughters that have these advanced degrees and businesses 559 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: that their tolerance level for the abuse and the bs 560 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 3: it starts to decline. And unfortunately, I still get a 561 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: lot of people who I can tell they're really resistant 562 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 3: to my content, even community healers that tend to want 563 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 3: to focus on forgiveness and marianismo and almost like they 564 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: and I get it. It's different for everybody. I have 565 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 3: some times they want to use forgiveness that hey, go 566 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 3: for it, and I'll help them with that. But there's 567 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: I think so many that I say no, I want 568 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: justice for what I've been through and I don't want 569 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: to use a tool that's been used in my religious trauma. 570 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 3: I'm still talking about it and seeking support for them 571 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 3: works better than somebody whose way of coping is more 572 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 3: rooted and like Christianity and white supremacy. There's so many 573 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 3: layers to it. 574 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: That's a great that's a great point. We haven't even 575 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: talked about religion at all here, but that's a really 576 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: great point. The emphasis on forgiveness when someone has clearly 577 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: harmed you for years, decades, depending on the circumstance, and 578 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: that that's sometimes the forgiveness is not there, it's not enough. 579 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to forgive you. Actually, I want to 580 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: cut you off or whatever that may be for someone. 581 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 3: I always encourage my clients and followers like, sit in 582 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 3: your anger. That's why for me, I will be no 583 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: contact with my mother in the afterlife because I want 584 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: to sit in my anger because I wasn't allowed to 585 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 3: when when I was little. That was not an option, 586 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 3: you know, to sit there and uh be angry or 587 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 3: be sad. So I encourage you know that that relationship 588 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 3: with anger and rage and to hopefully use that to 589 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 3: fuel change. 590 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: That's something my therapist tells me, like what can we 591 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: learn from anger? Right instead of stifling it and trying 592 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: to change it and make it positive? Like what is 593 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: it actually teaching us? And how can it protect us? 594 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: And I love what you said, how can it feel 595 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: us to make a change or be a change? 596 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 3: Oh, definitely, especially in our relationships because oftentimes our relationships 597 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 3: who we date, the friends, even at work, there's parallels 598 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 3: to the relationships we have with family. Self doubt tends 599 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 3: to creep up quite a bit. So when you really 600 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 3: start to examine your relationship with emotions and boundaries with family, 601 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 3: you can learn how to make changes in other aspects 602 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 3: of life. But see, going back to that question is 603 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 3: why don't families want to talk about it is because 604 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 3: it leads you down to connecting or seeking support outside 605 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 3: of the family, and that's where, like having different values, interests, 606 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,719 Speaker 3: opinions becomes an issue. So they try to protect that 607 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: with their framework of values and beliefs that have ideologies 608 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 3: rooted in white supremacy. So being a woman and being 609 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 3: educated is really goes against their idea of what a 610 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 3: woman should, how daughters and sisters should behave, and how 611 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 3: they should present themselves. 612 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today and telling 613 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: your story. How can folks connect with you? How can 614 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: they keep up with your work? Tell us more? 615 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: Thank you so Actually, most people can find me on 616 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 3: Instagram and TikTok under latinx estrangement, and there you'll see 617 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 3: my obviously my content and support groups that I promote 618 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: throughout the year. I offer individual therapy and coaching. 619 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 2: Violetta, thank you so much for your time and your 620 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: expertise and like Diosa said, sharing your story and being 621 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 2: so vulnerable. This is the side of our culture that 622 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 2: I think we don't talk about it, but it's really 623 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 2: important to share these narratives. So thank you again. Look 624 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: I thought our radio, a radio phonic novela is executive 625 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: produced and hosted by me Mala Munios and biosa fem. 626 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: Thank you to our locomotives, our listeners for all of 627 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: your support. 628 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 3: Loclonia