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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, Welcome back to tonight's classic episode. You

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Speaker 1: have probably heard a lot of scuttle but about aviation

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Speaker 1: in general over the past few months, especially recently with

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Speaker 1: the changes happening to the FAA here in the US,

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Speaker 1: and of course with the early controversies surrounding Bowie. The

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Speaker 1: America's answer to Airbus not.

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Speaker 2: To mention the news that came through. I believe yesterday

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Speaker 2: there was a Delta flight in Toronto that crash landed

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Speaker 2: on the airstrip and was inverted completely. I was asking

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Speaker 2: Matt off Air if anyone was killed. I think it

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Speaker 2: was just like an emergency evacuation.

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Speaker 3: After the fact.

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Speaker 2: But it's kind of crazy times to be flying the

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Speaker 2: friendly skies guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, several people were critically injured, but nobody got killed

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Speaker 3: in that incident, thankfully. They were all hanging upside down

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Speaker 3: though inside the plane, which but hey, that didn't stop

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Speaker 3: the three of us from getting on planes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what else are we going to do?

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Speaker 1: Run really fast? I can't swim all right, but I

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Speaker 1: can't swim across the Pacific yet. I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: my reps in. This is the thing. Though, thankfully, no

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Speaker 1: one died in that recent aviation debacle, and the plane

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Speaker 1: was like everybody knew where the plane was the entire time.

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Speaker 1: And it may be immensely, profoundly disconcerting to realize that

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Speaker 1: even now, in these our modern years, an entire plane

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Speaker 1: can simply disappear. In November twenty nineteen, we explored something

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Speaker 1: a lot of our fellow conspiracy realists. We're asking us

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Speaker 1: about Malaysia Airlines Flight three seventy.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear about him.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events, and turn back now or learn

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Speaker 4: this stuff. They don't want you to know. A production

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Speaker 4: of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 3: Noel is not with us today.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined, as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck and in spirit.

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Speaker 1: Today we are joined with our returning super producer Seth Johnson.

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Speaker 1: So say hello to Seth. Let us know if you

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Speaker 1: think there is a particularly compelling moniker or nickname or

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Speaker 1: appellation for Seth. That's appalation app e l l A

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Speaker 1: t io N, not the Mountain range. I think Seth.

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Speaker 1: You just said your favorite one was Seth Metal. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, you are you, You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to to know. Matt,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's been forever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you've been on an adventure.

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Speaker 1: An adventure is a way to describe it. The last

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Speaker 1: time I saw you, we were in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. Yeah. Yeah, And by the time this comes out,

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Speaker 3: our episode with mister Dan Harmon will be out. But

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Speaker 3: maybe that's something we should discuss when all three of

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Speaker 3: us are in the room.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. We took planes to our respective destinations, you

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Speaker 1: and you and Noel went to Atlanta and I went

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Speaker 1: to a couple other places before coming back to Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is that we are on the road

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Speaker 1: and in the air pretty often. And you know, many

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Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners tuning in today are part of

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Speaker 1: the one point seven million US residents on a plane,

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Speaker 1: like as we speak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a lot of us in the air

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Speaker 3: right now. Flyind this, guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And let's be honest, planes are amazing, astonishing, even

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Speaker 1: it's this incredible thing that, for the majority of human

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Speaker 1: civilization was a wild fantasy.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and it's who is I think it's Luisy Ka,

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Speaker 3: who has a bit about how amazing planes are. Maybe

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Speaker 3: you don't listen to it anymore. I don't know where

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Speaker 3: what the rules are, but you can he's got a

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Speaker 3: great bit on it. It exists. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes traveling by a plane is that amazing experience, but

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Speaker 3: other times, I mean it's at least a frustrating thing,

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Speaker 3: or it can be. There are a lot of pros

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Speaker 3: and cons. So if you are going to get on

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Speaker 3: a plane, you'd know for sure you're going to get

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Speaker 3: to your destination a lot faster than by any other means.

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Speaker 3: If it's across a large body of water, then it's

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Speaker 3: insanely faster than taking a boat. If it's across land,

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Speaker 3: it's significantly faster in taking a car. But that is,

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Speaker 3: of course, if everything goes well. There are some issues.

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Speaker 3: Like we said, just getting through security now at this

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Speaker 3: point is a bother. And also, you know, like we said,

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Speaker 3: there are one point seven million people who are going

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Speaker 3: to be in the air flying. They're also at airports

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Speaker 3: hanging out and it gets really crowded. The planes themselves

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Speaker 3: get really crowded, and also you got to deal with

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Speaker 3: things like weather, because, let's face it, planes get delayed

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Speaker 3: and sometimes even canceled because of the way moisture acts

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Speaker 3: in the air.

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Speaker 1: Or even lightning right as well, so we hear in

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know, or no strangers

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Speaker 1: being stuck in airports. Longtime listeners will recall that our

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Speaker 1: current record was somewhere around sixteen eighteen hours in our

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Speaker 1: own airport in Atlanta, Georgia. Let's also add, of course,

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Speaker 1: the con that airplanes as they are designed now are

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Speaker 1: terrible for the environment. That's just true. It's true that

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Speaker 1: planes are often delayed, and while highly unlikely, plane sometimes crash.

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Speaker 1: Let's emphasize this. You are much safer in an airplane

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Speaker 1: than you will ever be in a car. So anybody

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Speaker 1: afraid of flying, just think about that while you're driving

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Speaker 1: on the interstate.

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Speaker 3: Unless you're just in a car in a well yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say in a garage, but that can

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Speaker 3: be unsafe too.

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Speaker 1: All right, if it's running in the interstate. When you're driving,

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Speaker 1: let's all be very conscious of the fact that the

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Speaker 1: only thing preventing other people from careening into you is

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Speaker 1: an honor system of painted lines. In most cases, there's

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Speaker 1: no physical barrier. A plane is much safer, but a

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Speaker 1: plane will still sometimes crash, and every once in a

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Speaker 1: while a plane will simply disappear. In today's episode, we're

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Speaker 1: exploring one of the most recent, most famous examples of

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Speaker 1: disappearing aircraft. Here's today's question, what happened to Malaysia Airlines

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Speaker 1: Flight three seventy. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So there are a lot of numbers in here

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Speaker 3: that we're going to be going over. Some of them

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Speaker 3: are much more important than We'll kind of let you

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Speaker 3: know as we're going. So the flight in question, Malaysia

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Speaker 3: Airlines Flight three seventy, was the plane at least a

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Speaker 3: Boeing seven seven seven now is a specific kind of

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Speaker 3: seven seven seven. It was a two h six er. Now,

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Speaker 3: this just means that it was an extended range versions,

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Speaker 3: so it can travel further than the regular Boeing seven

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Speaker 3: seven seven. Now, this particular model of seven seven seven

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Speaker 3: has been in the air, been flying commercially since nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety seven. And this model is it's huge. Its length

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Speaker 3: is over two hundred feet and it's designed to accommodate

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Speaker 3: upwards of two hundred and sixty passengers. So two hundred

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Speaker 3: and sixty plus. It can be basically changed slightly. How

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Speaker 3: how the seat structure is to accommodate more people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a little conspiracy that we'll just add in

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Speaker 1: add in for free here on our free show, and

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Speaker 1: we'll confirm this Concer two airline leg room is getting

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Speaker 1: smaller with each successive iteration.

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Speaker 3: Why has that been because.

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Speaker 1: They even put more people on the plane. Oh oh,

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Speaker 1: and then there's still sell more tickets than there are

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Speaker 1: seats in the plane. There's a there's a dark science

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Speaker 1: to it. This particular plane in question, the one that

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Speaker 1: the Boeing seven seven seven two h sixty R that

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Speaker 1: was flying on flight three seventy. It had the serial

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Speaker 1: number two eight four two zero. It had the registration

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Speaker 1: number nine m MRO. It was the four hundred and

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Speaker 1: fourth Boeing seven seventy seven produced. It was first flown

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Speaker 1: on May fourteenth, two thousand and two, and then after

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Speaker 1: that it was delivered to Malaysia Airlines on May thirty first,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two. And you know, like we were

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Speaker 1: talking about with the confirmed conspiracy to rob you of

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Speaker 1: leg room, this plane was configured to fit two hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty two passengers. Yeah, So luckily for the people

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Speaker 1: who are stuck in those middle rows, the plane wasn't

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Speaker 1: packed to the gills, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, let's go ahead and talk about that, just

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Speaker 3: so most people understand in the if you're thinking about

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Speaker 3: maybe a plane that you've been on before, if you've

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Speaker 3: flown in a plane Malaysia, this one, Malaysia Airlines flight

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Speaker 3: three seventy, had three seats in the center aisle. Then

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Speaker 3: it had two seats, you know, a row of two

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Speaker 3: seats on the left and a row of two seats

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Speaker 3: on the right. If you were sitting economy. It was

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Speaker 3: much more spread out and sparse if you were sitting

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Speaker 3: first class or a business class.

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Speaker 1: And during this flight there were twelve crew members. There

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Speaker 1: were two hundred and twenty seven passengers. One hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty three of those passengers were Chinese nationals, the majority

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Speaker 1: thirty eight passengers were Malaysian, and the rest were from

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Speaker 1: a combination a mixtape of twelve different countries. You will

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Speaker 1: read different estimates of the total number of people aboard,

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Speaker 1: but we'll have more on that later. The plane itself

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Speaker 1: had had no major incidents in the past, and routine

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Speaker 1: maintenance inspections had been carried out, the most recent one

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Speaker 1: on February twenty third, twenty fourteen. They found no significant issues,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So it's pretty good. Twelve years of service almost with

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Speaker 3: no major incidents. I would take those odds if I

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Speaker 3: was gonna get on that plane or be the captain

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Speaker 3: of that plane. So let's get to the day. On

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Speaker 3: March eighth, twenty fourteen, So it departed from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia,

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Speaker 3: and it was headed to Beijing, China. So and oh,

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Speaker 3: so oh, it's really important to note here this was

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Speaker 3: a red eye flight. This was one of those early

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Speaker 3: early morning you're gonna fly basically through the night and

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Speaker 3: probably sleep on the plane if you're a passenger. The

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Speaker 3: wheels were up at twelve thirty five am, the local time.

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Speaker 3: And it should also be noted that this is the

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Speaker 3: same they're essentially flying north east a little bit to

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Speaker 3: Beijing from Kuala Lumpur, so they're in the same time zone.

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Speaker 3: So when we're talking about times here, it's going to

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Speaker 3: be the same thing. So leaves at twelve thirty five am,

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Speaker 3: it's scheduled to arrive in Beijing at six thirty five am.

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Speaker 1: And this was a routine trip. It's one of two

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Speaker 1: daily flights the airline conducts along this route. That's pretty

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Speaker 1: common with a lot of airline destinations because you can

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Speaker 1: fly the plane from point A to point B and

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Speaker 1: then fly it from point B to point A, so

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Speaker 1: it ends up where it left and it still has

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Speaker 1: its home. It's HQ, but now you have two flights

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Speaker 1: instead of one. This flight takes about five hours and

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Speaker 1: thirty four minutes. This consumes a ballpark of eighty two

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Speaker 1: thousand pounds of jet fuel, which is normal, and in

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Speaker 1: another routine practice, the aircraft carries one hundred and eight thousand,

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Speaker 1: two hundred pounds of fuel, including its reserves. This gives

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Speaker 1: it an overall flight time endurance. It can be in

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Speaker 1: the air for seven hours and thirty one minutes. This

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Speaker 1: ensures that pilots can keep the craft aloft in case

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Speaker 1: they need to divert to another airport. Think of it

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Speaker 1: like a form of insurance, a margin of error. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is a pretty common thing. This is not in

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Speaker 1: any way unusual. We have to set the facts out there,

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Speaker 1: so we've established the following things as being normal and routine.

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Speaker 1: Right the roots, the passengers, the mountain fuel they had

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Speaker 1: and so on. But there was a very abnormal and

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Speaker 1: tragic thing that happened that made flight three seventy different

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Speaker 1: from all the other routine trips back and forth from

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Speaker 1: Beijing and Malaysia, and that was that this plane disappeared.

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Speaker 1: What exactly happened will answer the question after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. We're back a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: fake Matt, unfortunately, we will answer what we know about

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Speaker 1: this question.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the official numbers and such times and what occurred.

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Speaker 3: And again, it may be a little bit confusing as

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Speaker 3: we're going through this because there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: times and kind of numbers that are occurring here. Just

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Speaker 3: we'll try and keep you as focused as possible as

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Speaker 3: we're getting through this. But this stuff is important. So

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Speaker 3: you've probably been on a plane before, and you've watched

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Speaker 3: movies hopefully maybe okay, So if you've ever seen a

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Speaker 3: movie before where a pilot is involved, or you get

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Speaker 3: to spend time in a cockpit of a pilot, or

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Speaker 3: maybe you've ever flown a plane, or you have any

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Speaker 3: working knowledge of this, maybe you've just used Microsoft's flight

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Speaker 3: simulator like I have, so you know that there are

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Speaker 3: important transmissions that occur between air traffic control and the

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Speaker 3: person who is in control of a flight an aircraft

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Speaker 3: flying vehicle in the sky. And a lot of this

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Speaker 3: is actually transmissions that are done by voice, where two

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Speaker 3: human beings are talking to each other. But a lot

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Speaker 3: of other really important stuff occurs just through the systems

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Speaker 3: within the airplane itself and the radar that exists at

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Speaker 3: air traffic control at varying places throughout the world. As

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Speaker 3: a plane is flying over certain areas, and there are

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Speaker 3: these handoffs that occur between the varying air traffic control systems.

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Speaker 3: So let's say in this case they're flying from Kuala

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Speaker 3: Lumpur up to Beijing. There are several places they're going

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Speaker 3: to go over Vietnam, right, So as they're going into Vietnam,

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Speaker 3: they have to then begin communicating rather than the Kuala

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Speaker 3: Lumpur air Traffic Control to then begin communicating with the

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Speaker 3: Vietnam Air traffic Control or whichever local air traffic controllers

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Speaker 3: are there. So just keep that in mind as we're

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Speaker 3: going through here. Communications are key. So the last automated

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Speaker 3: transmission that came from the plane that was sent out

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Speaker 3: to air traffic controllers was this automated position report, and

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Speaker 3: it's something that was sent through a cars ACARS, the

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Speaker 3: aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting system, and this occurred at

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Speaker 3: one six Malaysian time, so that came that's what twelve

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Speaker 3: thirty five wheels up to one oh six. That's where

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Speaker 3: that signal went out.

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Speaker 1: And this signal, this message, this transmission does not contain

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Speaker 1: a multiple plot twist or anything. It's sort of the

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Speaker 1: metadata of the flight. How much gas do we have left?

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Speaker 1: Where are we is it where we're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: and the answers to all these questions at the time

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Speaker 1: where yes, we have ninety six six hundred pounds of gas,

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Speaker 1: where we're ready to go. We're doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: The final verbal signal to air traffic control occurs just

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Speaker 1: a bit after. It's a one nineteen one twenty in

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Speaker 1: the morning. Captain Zahari Ahmad Shah acknowledges the transition from

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Speaker 1: the Kuala Lumpur radar to the ho Chi Min Area

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Speaker 1: Control Center. And that's just as you said earlier, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Let's think of it kind of like an audio radar

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Speaker 1: version of a handshake or a pass off, So that

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Speaker 1: despite no longer being in Malaysia's airspace, the plane is

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Speaker 1: still under the watchful eye of some sort of authority.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's gonna come. It's going to be important

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Speaker 3: later on in the story because there's a very specific

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Speaker 3: thing you have to do within the airplane to change

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Speaker 3: your transponder to then it's called squawk, to then change

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Speaker 3: that to send out to the new air traffic controllers.

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Speaker 1: Just so. The crew was expected to signal air traffic

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Speaker 1: control in Ho Chi Min City as the aircraft passed

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Speaker 1: into Vietnamese airspace, and that was Vietnamese airspace was just

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Speaker 1: north of the point where contact was lost. Interesting part

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Speaker 1: about that last verbal signal. We have the We have

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Speaker 1: the quote of what they said. The controller Kuala Lumpur

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Speaker 1: Center radioed Malaysian three seven zero contact Ho Chi Minh

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Speaker 1: one two zero decimal nine. Good night. The captain Zahari

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Speaker 1: answers good night Malaysia three seven zero. But he doesn't

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Speaker 1: read back the frequency the way he should have according

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Speaker 1: to protocol. Otherwise that transmission is normal. He didn't say anything,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the elder gods rise, the stars are right,

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Speaker 1: the rivers run red with blood. He just said what

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Speaker 1: he was supposed to say. And when we get into

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Speaker 1: the pinging the science of the radar here, we just

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Speaker 1: have to understand a few basic things. Radar relies on

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Speaker 1: just simple raw pingsing thing thing off different objects in

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Speaker 1: the sky, but air traffic control systems use what's known

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Speaker 1: as secondary radar. Secondary radar needs a transponder signal that

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Speaker 1: is transmitted by each airplane and contains more information than

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Speaker 1: the primary radar does. Secondary radar comes from the plane

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Speaker 1: has the airplane's identity and altitude. A few seconds after

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Speaker 1: MH three seventy crosses into Vietnamese airspace, the symbol showing

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Speaker 1: its transponder its secondary radar stuff drops from the screens.

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Speaker 1: It disappears at least as far as Malaysian Air Traffic

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Speaker 1: Control can see, and then sorry, in their primary radar,

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Speaker 1: it disappears from Malaysian Air traffic control. Thirty seven seconds later,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing disappears from secondary radar. And that time

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Speaker 1: occurs that's around one twenty one thirty nine minutes after takeoff.

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Speaker 3: And that's really weird because that would possibly signal that

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Speaker 3: someone within the aircraft in the cockpit turned their transponder

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Speaker 3: to stand by, which is like I'm trying to imagine

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Speaker 3: what an equivalent of that would be it's like a Bluetooth.

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Speaker 3: Imagine a Bluetooth machine that you've got somewhere in your

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Speaker 3: house and it's connected up. Let's say to your phone, right,

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Speaker 3: You've got let's say it's a Google Home speaker in

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Speaker 3: your phone. The phone is the airplane and the Google

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Speaker 3: Home is the air traffic controller, and they're connected via

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Speaker 3: this Bluetooth signal because both are sending out signals, right,

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Speaker 3: and they're talking to each other. In this scenario, it

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Speaker 3: appears that somebody just turned the Bluetooth off on that

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Speaker 3: phone or the airplane to where Now that Google Home

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Speaker 3: is still searching for that thing, but it can't find

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Speaker 3: it because the phone is no longer transmitting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. The people in the Vietnamese control center, they

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Speaker 1: know that MH three seventy is crossed in the airspace.

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Speaker 1: They've seen it disappear, and they tried to contact the

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Speaker 1: aircraft to various means, to no avail. The captain of

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Speaker 1: another aircraft attempted to contact the crew a little bit

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Speaker 1: after one point thirty using the International Air Distress or

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Speaker 1: IAD frequency, and he was trying to reach them to

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Speaker 1: relay what air traffic control in Vietnam was saying, which

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Speaker 1: was basically what happened to you call us check in,

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Speaker 1: and the captain of this other aircraft says that he

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Speaker 1: was able to establish communication, but he only heard mumbling

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Speaker 1: and static, which would make for a very creepy sound.

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Speaker 1: Cue purpose.

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Speaker 3: In that right there could get into something that may

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Speaker 3: have occurred on that plane. Just the just keep that

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Speaker 3: in your mind, mumbling and static.

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Speaker 1: And calls me to Flight three seventies cockpit at two

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Speaker 1: thirty nine AM and seven thirteen am as this search

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Speaker 1: is continuing and reaching fever pitch. They went unanswered, but

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Speaker 1: they were acknowledged by the aircraft's onboard satellite data unit.

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Speaker 1: So something acknowledged that received it. But it was an

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Speaker 1: automated acknowledgment. It was a machine.

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Speaker 3: But it is at least good to know because again,

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Speaker 3: if we're following our timeline here, we're still around one

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Speaker 3: thirty right when we're talking about this other airplane that

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Speaker 3: was attempting to contact. But if we're jumping to you know,

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Speaker 3: the plane was supposed to be in Beijing at six

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Speaker 3: thirty am, right, and it's the same it's the same

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Speaker 3: time zone. So if they're pinging at seven thirteen. They're

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Speaker 3: attempting to establish communication again, and something on that plane

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Speaker 3: is still responding. That means it's it's functioning somewhere right.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Exactly around the time that Flight three seventy disappears,

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Speaker 1: radar and its transponders stops pinging. Military radar shows Flight

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Speaker 1: three seventy turning right but then beginning a left turn

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Speaker 1: to some southwesterly direction. From one thirty in the morning

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Speaker 1: until one thirty five in the morning, military radar shows

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Speaker 1: Flight three seventy at thirty five thousand, seven hundred feet, so,

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Speaker 1: despite becoming unresponsive, the bird is still in the air.

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Speaker 1: The last satellite contact with the plane occurs much later

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Speaker 1: at eight nineteen am, which is believed to be the

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Speaker 1: time around the time when the plane ran out of

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Speaker 1: fuel somewhere over the southern Indian Ocean, and from that

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Speaker 1: point on, as far as we know, the plane largely disappeared.

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Speaker 1: So what happened, we'll tell you after a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. In the days, weeks, months,

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Speaker 1: years following the disappearance of the flight, numerous theories have

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Speaker 1: cropped up. There are a ton of them out there, folks,

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Speaker 1: and they range from the fanciful to what I have

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Speaker 1: to admit is the disturbingly plausible. Matt, which way do

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Speaker 1: you want to go with this?

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Speaker 3: Let's start with some of the most plausible stuff that's

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Speaker 3: out there, because there have been some I think well

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Speaker 3: reasoned arguments as to what have possibly occurred. However, now

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Speaker 3: that we know a little more information, specifically what we

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Speaker 3: mentioned right before the break, the military radar info that

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Speaker 3: was held back for quite a time there by the

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Speaker 3: Malaysian authorities, we do know that that weird left hand

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Speaker 3: turn occurred, or at least that they went off course.

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Speaker 3: Right we talked about that northeast direction heading up to

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Speaker 3: Beijing where it should have been, and it didn't do that.

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Speaker 3: It turned around, went back over Malay and then over

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Speaker 3: the tip of Indonesia there and then took a left

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Speaker 3: turn somehow. That's what we know. So taking all that

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Speaker 3: into account, it changes things and it makes some of

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Speaker 3: these most plausible explanations a little different. So let's get

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Speaker 3: into the one of the most plausible, the idea that

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Speaker 3: somehow the people responsible for flying this plane either lost

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Speaker 3: consciousness or we're experiencing something called hypoxia, and hypoxia is

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Speaker 3: just a fancy way of saying, a lack of oxygen

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Speaker 3: specifically to the brain, and then what happens. It describes

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Speaker 3: what happens in the brain because of that lack of oxygen.

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Speaker 3: And this generally occurs on aircraft when there's a decompression

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Speaker 3: of the cabin right just quickly to go over this bend.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you can probably you could probably explain this a

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Speaker 3: little better than I But the thinning of air as

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Speaker 3: you go higher and higher in altitude is a real

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Speaker 3: issue because humans. Human bodies need a certain density of

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Speaker 3: oxygen in air to be able to breathe correctly. And

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Speaker 3: when you're flying in a plane, if you were just

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Speaker 3: at that altitude, like thirty five thousand feet in the

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Speaker 3: air without a pressurized cabin, you wouldn't be able to breathe.

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Speaker 3: It would only take a few seconds before you would

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Speaker 3: begin to experience hypoxia, not be able to think correctly,

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Speaker 3: and then pass out. In a plane, it's pressurized, and

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Speaker 3: it's generally pressurized to around ten thousand feet or the

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Speaker 3: equivalent of about ten thousand feet in the air, So

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Speaker 3: the air you're breathing inside the cabin is they call

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Speaker 3: it ten thousand feet generally it's the equivalent of that.

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Speaker 3: In this case. If the cabin was depressurized, then the

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Speaker 3: crew would have been experiencing hypoxia. They would have been disoriented,

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't have been able to make good decisions, or

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Speaker 3: at least decisions that were based on their training, and

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Speaker 3: if that happened, it could lead down this cascading pathway

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Speaker 3: of bad decisions and then tragedy. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Even if the crew was unresponsive because the cabin de pressurized,

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Speaker 3: they experienced hypoxia, they passed out, Even the autopilot that

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Speaker 3: exists on these Boeing seven seven seven planes would have

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Speaker 3: kicked in and they would have at least stayed on

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Speaker 3: that path northeast towards Beijing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the autopilot would stay on until the engine literally

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Speaker 1: ran out of fuel and experienced a flame out, at

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Speaker 1: which point the autopilot would disengage and the aircraft would

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Speaker 1: crash very soon thereafter. However, this doesn't explain why the

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Speaker 1: planes seemed to turn around after becoming unresponsive, which I

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Speaker 1: think you mentioned at the top before we even started

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Speaker 1: going into theories. Yeah, autopilot won't do that. An autopilot

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Speaker 1: program would not do that. Hypoxia is known to cause

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Speaker 1: confusion and disorientation, which can lead to abnormal erratic behavior,

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Speaker 1: And the question here is could that have played a role.

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Speaker 1: Could the gradual decompression of the cabin occurred such that

435
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: people didn't maybe instantly pass out, but the captain or

436
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: someone piloting the aircraft was confused and freaking out and

437
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: then tried at the last minute to do what they

438
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: saw as a course correct. That's the question. Australian Transport

439
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: Safety Bureau doesn't one hundred percent confirm this. They're very

440
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: careful with the way they build their case. If you

441
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: read the report, they're essentially saying, the evidence indicates this

442
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: is the most plausible explanation, but there are other ones

443
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: out there. What if this was I know this is

444
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: a tense term for some people, an inside job. What

445
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: if the plane was hijacked by a member of the crew,

446
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: possibly in a suicide attempt. Rational Wiki has a great

447
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: approach to this. They summarize the following facts about the

448
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: pilot we'd mentioned earlier. Zahari Ahmad shah Shah was reported

449
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: by his coworkers and friends to be going through a

450
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: period of quote emotional distress due to his marriage falling apart.

451
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: A later police investigation, they did a background check on

452
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: everyone on the plane, and in these, of course these

453
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: background checks, the police investigation of Zahari found that he

454
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: had been acting in an erratic manner in the last

455
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: few days leading up to this flight. Specifically, he had

456
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: made absolutely no plans after March eighth. Yeah, that's where

457
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: his calendar ended. And it sounds crazy at first to say, Wait,

458
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: a pilot hijacked their own plane to commit suicide or

459
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: something like that. Weirdly enough, that's not as uncommon as

460
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: any of us would probably like to believe.

461
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: It certainly happened a few times that I can think

462
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: of in the past. It's a weird thing to imagine

463
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: somebody deciding to take their own life along with two

464
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: hundred plus others. It's hard to imagine. Well, it's but

465
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: it's not. It's not implausible.

466
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately, that's something we know because one thing this

467
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: show has taught us about the human experience is that

468
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: humans are very very selfish and very very talented at

469
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: rationalizing their horrible base traits. Right, So we know that

470
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: it's we know it's not uncommon. There's another example. German

471
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: Wings flight nine five two five. That's a similar thing.

472
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: We also know that the same technology that prevents outside

473
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: hijackers from successfully taking a plane is the same technology

474
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: that helps inside hijackers carry off something like this. The

475
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: cockpit door of this Boeing seven seven seven had anti

476
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: hijacking technology on it make it once the door's locked,

477
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: nearly impossible, virtually impossible for crew members or passengers to

478
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: break in and stop him. Also, the police investigation turned

479
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: up some weird stuff at his homemade flight simulator. Right.

480
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, he had this really impressive flight simulator set

481
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: up at his house. You know. For me, when I

482
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: was playing it, it was just on my home computer,

483
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: had a mouse and a keyboard, and I thought, I

484
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: it was awesome. But for him, he actually had a

485
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: lot of the controls, a lot of the actual devices

486
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: that you would need to manipulate on a plane to

487
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 3: make it function. And what they found there was very strange.

488
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: Apparently when they actually pulled stuff up, all they really

489
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: found were coordinates of basically like takeoff and landing. Right, So,

490
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: there were several coordinates that were out in the Indian

491
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: Ocean where it's thought within the area that it's thought

492
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 3: that perhaps this plane crashed. Did we talk about that already? Like,

493
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: we honestly don't know at all where this plane crashed.

494
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: Somewhere in the Indian Ocean.

495
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's literally a giant ocean and a huge number

496
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 3: of plot points basically where this plane could have crashed.

497
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: It's insane, but several of the coordinates on its flight

498
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: simulator were within that area, just in the ocean. And

499
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: you generally don't plot points like that when you're flying

500
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: a simulator.

501
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. According to New York Magazine, the the US

502
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: FBI was able to recover six deleted data points that

503
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: have been stored in his simulator program in the weeks

504
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: before three seventy disappeared. And what's interesting about that article,

505
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: which is through their intelligence or brand or imprint, is

506
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: that you can see the path here with the simulated

507
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: flight Sahari took in red, and then the projected flight

508
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: path of the actual plane in yellow. They don't line

509
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: up one hundred percent, but the direction is more or

510
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: less exactly the same. So this flight simulator stuff is

511
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: not proof positive that Zahari himself took over the plane

512
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: and purposely crashed it or crashed it in an attempt

513
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: to get somewhere.

514
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because there's no you can't prove intent or

515
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 3: anything like that with his what he was doing on

516
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: his flight simulator. There's no way he may have just

517
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 3: been wanting to fly out towards Antarctica that day because

518
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 3: he was bored on his flight simulator.

519
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, seriously, he may have just been And call me

520
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: crazy here. I mean, maybe this two timfoil hat for everybody.

521
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: Because he's a pilot. He might have just been practicing

522
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: flying planes. Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe I'm the fringe

523
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: theorist in this case. Here's here's the problem. A report

524
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen claimed to rule out suicide based on

525
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: an analysis of the cruise backgrounds including the pilot and

526
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: then personalities, and analysis of voice recordings. This report claimed

527
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: the pilot wasn't the culprit, but it did not rule

528
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: out interference by a third party. And we do have

529
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: to we have a couple of things we have to

530
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: mention about those reports in general, which is that the

531
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: Malaysian government and a couple of other governments scrambled to

532
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: cover up and suppress things in the initial in the

533
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: initial early days of the investigation, partially because they did

534
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: not want to They did not want to have bad

535
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: PR ultimately, and I don't mean to sound reductive calling

536
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: it that, but they didn't want to have bad PR.

537
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: They also did not want to reveal their military capabilities,

538
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: because if you allow military tech to enter into a

539
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: civilian or commercial search like this, you're essentially giving away

540
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: information to other adjacent countries and state actors. And Vietnam

541
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: will say, oh you can you can see that, Yeah,

542
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: but that's in our airspace, and then of course China

543
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: will say, oh, so that's how far your radar goes delightful,

544
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for the info, bro. But this other report argues that, well,

545
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: it doesn't argue it does not rule out interference by

546
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: a third party. And this idea of hijacking by an

547
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: external party is the most commonly cited explanation. It's the

548
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: one you saw in most mainstream US media. The problem

549
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: is there's no terror group that has taken responsibility, or

550
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: no terrorists who said we did this. It's us.

551
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: There's a weird open letter from some group purporting to

552
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: be from China, like a terror group from China, but

553
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: it was it was ruled to be likely not actual.

554
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: And background checks and all the passengers have come up

555
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: relatively clean, except for some scuttle but about two Iranian

556
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: passengers flying on fake German passports, I want to say

557
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: there's still no known motive for the disappearance. Fire has

558
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: also been advanced as a possibility. That's true. Fire has

559
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: happened in the past, but until we actually find the

560
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: majority of the wreckage, there's no way to know it.

561
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: They are less plausible things that have been advanced. There's

562
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: always an alarmist call citing jahattist. Oh yeah, there's the

563
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: possibility of a cyber attack.

564
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. And that has to do with the plane's

565
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 3: autopilot system, because after nine to eleven, as another way

566
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 3: to try and prevent some kind of hijacking, Boeing installed

567
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: this specific countermeasure within the autopilot so that air traffic

568
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 3: controllers could take over basically and remote control fly that plane.

569
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and seven Boeing had said they

570
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: had installed what they call the un into ruptible auto pilot.

571
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: So the theory is that hijackers on the plane around

572
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: the ground hijacked this autopilot program and tampered with it,

573
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: sort of the way that US intelligence agencies have been

574
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: accused of tampering with remote driving capabilities of newer vehicles.

575
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: And there's a tech writer named Jeff Wise who said,

576
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: maybe the hijackers access the systems through the floor of

577
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: the first class compartment, being able to spoof satellite data

578
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: to mislead searchers. And then he said maybe they flew

579
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: the plane north to Kazakhstan. But this doesn't This doesn't

580
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: explain nor account for dozens of other problems. One thing

581
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: I think is interesting that is probably not true. There's

582
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: a Delta Airlines captain named Field McConnell. His real first

583
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: name is Field, and he said that there was corporate

584
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: espionage a play that flight three P seventy was captured

585
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: because some of the passengers on the plane were Chinese

586
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: employees of an Austin based semiconductor manufacturer named Freescale. And

587
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: this is something that some of us have heard. Reading

588
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: into three seventy, Captain McConnell claimed that the paint and

589
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: equipment on flight three seventy were secret devices produced by

590
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: Freescale that gave the plane stealth capabilities. So he's saying

591
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: like it didn't wreck, Yeah, it was captured. The corporate

592
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: espionage angle is pretty fascinating. You know, initially when that

593
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: came out, I thought, I didn't know whether there was

594
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: sand to it, but I thought, okay, well these are

595
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: this is a collection of people who work in the

596
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: same rarefied air, right, so they would be potentially high

597
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: value subject matter experts to someone. But does that make

598
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: them a high value target? And that's what I couldn't

599
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: get past. They're easier ways to disappear people.

600
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: Certainly, but the concentration of a lot of those people

601
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 3: is if we were gaming it out, that would be

602
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 3: very helpful.

603
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, true. And the other there's another part here, which

604
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: is that the plane doesn't have to have high value

605
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: targets quote unquote a board for it to just be

606
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: shot down. And a lot of people said it was

607
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: shot down. It was very popular with the right wing

608
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: contingents here in the United States. The theory is not

609
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: super complex, just says a government somewhere, possibly Malaysia, possibly

610
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: the US, possibly China shot plane down.

611
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: So there are a lot of reasons there. Some of

612
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: it was just because the plane ended up in airspace

613
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 3: that was controlled, specifically over Ukraine. That was the thought

614
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: at least, and that he was shot down because it

615
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: was perceived as a threat in controlled airspace. There's some

616
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: other stuff in there about Oh I forgot even mention this.

617
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: Do we talk about North Korea and that possible connection

618
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: that proposed, Yeah, it's not possible there. Well, I can't

619
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 3: say that. It doesn't make much sense to me personally.

620
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 3: The idea that for some reason it was flown to

621
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: North Korea on purpose.

622
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a reddit theory, right, yeah.

623
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

624
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: The only strong support I saw for that theory or

625
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: the argument for it was there was enough fuel in

626
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: the plane yea to make it to pill and.

627
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: Getting it would have been in range done. That's it.

628
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 3: Of course he went to North Korea.

629
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's one of those things that gets advanced

630
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: is sort of a you know, I'm just asking questions

631
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with asking questions. Yeah, kind of

632
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: thing like that guy who was like, hey, maybe it

633
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: was a black hole.

634
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: Oh you mean Don Lemon from CNN.

635
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. Don Lemon over at CNN asked whether

636
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: a miniature black hole could to have caused the wreck.

637
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: The answer is probably not, Don, probably not. But also

638
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: this hid behind that rhetorical device of just asking questions. Yeah,

639
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: by framing a preposterous claim as though it is a question,

640
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: we put the burden of proof on the person that

641
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: we're arguing at. Right now, we no longer have to

642
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: prove that we think the Queen of England is a

643
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: half hybrid alien who just has a real interest in

644
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: like screwing humans over for some reason. Now we just say,

645
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: I'm just asking the question, what if the Queen of

646
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: England is like a half alien reptilian, half human hybrid

647
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: and just generally hates people.

648
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: I'm just asking, Yeah, in this case, don Lemon, I

649
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 3: think worded it as preposterously. Is it preposterous to think

650
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: that maybe a black hole opened up and sucked in

651
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 3: that plane and then closed and then nobody saw the

652
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: plane again, But nobody saw the black hole again. It

653
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 3: was just a quick little I'm just asking, just tell

654
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 3: me if that's crazy.

655
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: And then that's that's very much related to the other

656
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: idea aliens. There was a poll on CNN's website that

657
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: I think has been deleted now, and according to that poll,

658
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: nine percent of the people responding answered that it was

659
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: quote very likely or quote somewhat likely that Flight three

660
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: seventy was abducted by aliens. Time travelers or beings from

661
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: another dimension. There is no scientific basis for that. That's

662
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: a self reporting pole.

663
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's just the idea that maybe the concept

664
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 3: that nine percent of the people in that particular pole

665
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 3: believed that somehow aliens were involved. Right, It wasn't any

666
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: specific there's no specifics to that pole. It wasn't like

667
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 3: were was the plane itself transported onto another larger alien vessel.

668
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: Did as extraterrestrials board the plane and then take it

669
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: to North Korea. Sorry, that's poking fun a little bit,

670
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: but you know it's not to be poked fun at

671
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: here is the fact that hundreds of people went missing

672
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 3: on that plane, including the pilot and the first captain

673
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: and all the crew and all of the family members

674
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 3: that were on there. So these kinds of conspiracy theories. Again,

675
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: while while I'm making fun of it a little bit personally,

676
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 3: that is not to discount the tragedy that has occurred here.

677
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,479
Speaker 1: Yes, and well said, there are other theories at play here,

678
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: the idea that the plane was abducted by the US

679
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: and taken to the a toll of di Ago Garcia,

680
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: or that it was taken to some other place. There

681
00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: are different genres of MH three P seventy or conspiracy theories.

682
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: But we do know that some experts have claimed to

683
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: have found parts of the wreckage. Do you hear about this?

684
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, several pieces have washed up on the shores

685
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 3: of small islands out there within the Indian Ocean. Pieces

686
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 3: that are definitely you can you can link up the

687
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 3: serial numbers within these pieces. It's not the fuselage, it's the.

688
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: There's a wing flap in Tanzania.

689
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the things like that, you can

690
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: actually match it up and say, yes, this came from

691
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: this specific model and serial number.

692
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: And there was a plain wing fragment in Martius Mauritius.

693
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a great, great article from the Atlantic called

694
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 3: What Really Happened to Malaysia's Missing Airplane that is written

695
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 3: by William Langwish or Languish.

696
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: That's pretty recent, it's July twenty nineteen.

697
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and within there he does Williams does a great

698
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 3: job of outlining there's a particular man that I cannot

699
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 3: recall his name right now, but.

700
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: He Gibson Gibbs. It is Gibson Lane Gibson.

701
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 3: He's the essentially self made Malaysia three Malaysia Airlines three

702
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 3: seventy hunter. I mean really, he's he's been looking for

703
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 3: pieces of debris that have washed up on shores across

704
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: the world, over, all over, and he's also put feelers

705
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 3: out to a lot of these smaller islands where you know,

706
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: stuff just happens to wash ashore and then they notify him.

707
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, to continue with the examples, there was a not

708
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: I am not an aviation expert. I do not know

709
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: what a flat perone is or a flat perone what

710
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: There was one found in Reunion Island or on Reunion

711
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: Island twenty fifteen. That would make a total of at

712
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: least three three confirmed pieces. But then there are other

713
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 1: things that have been found that are almost certainly from

714
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: the missing jetliner Madagascar. There was a cabin interior panel

715
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: found in June and twenty seventeen, engine calling in South Africa,

716
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: another interior panel on Rodriguez Island, horizontal stabilizers on Mozambique,

717
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: flap track fairing on Mozambique. The stuff is out there,

718
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: it's being found. One interesting conspiracy theory I heard about Gibson,

719
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: which I hope was not proposed in a serious air,

720
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: was that he had access to much more wreckage, but

721
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: was doling it out slowly for his reputation. And mister Gibson,

722
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: if you're listening, I do not believe that's the case.

723
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: And I think people are doing that we're hopefully being

724
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: satirical or trying to be edge lords online.

725
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree, at least from the writing from

726
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: that article, it appears that his actions have been well intentioned,

727
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: like going to memorials to meet with family members of

728
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 3: victims and going, you know, traveling all over the world

729
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: with people. In particular, there was a young woman whose

730
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: mother I believe was lost in that flight. It's an

731
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: interesting thing because as they're finding these pieces of wreckage

732
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 3: that wash up on shores dotted across the area there,

733
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 3: the whole point is, or at least Gibson and some

734
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 3: of the other people involved, they're trying to trace back

735
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: through ocean currents where that piece of wreckage may have originated, right,

736
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 3: because if it was sixteen, you know, however many months

737
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 3: after the wreckage was found, from the day that they

738
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: know the plane went missing, you can kind of trace,

739
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 3: you know, just through the records of ocean currents what

740
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 3: possibly was the route, right, And then if you find

741
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 3: that route, then maybe you can find the origins of

742
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 3: where it actually went down, and you could find the

743
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: rest of the plane, and then the end goal for

744
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: that would be to find the black box so you

745
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: can actually hear what occurred inside that cockpit.

746
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: And it's interesting you say that, because that would be

747
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: my summation to the importance of finding the black box. However,

748
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: that's not what the author from the Atlantic ends up proposing.

749
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: Because now we're several years past the event. People in

750
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: Australia have done all the research they could. The government

751
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: of China is censoring news that might The government of

752
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: China just wants to move on, right. The government in

753
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: Malaysia wishes that of course this never happened. They want

754
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: it to go away. And while people are still finding pieces,

755
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: and Gibson being one of the main sources of those pieces,

756
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: you would think that the government in Malaysia would be

757
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: more happy about it, right, But unfortunately that does not

758
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: seem to be the case. They want to walk away

759
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: from this because it made them look, bade them look

760
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: a little incompetent. They weren't following protocol. They were doing

761
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: cover ups pretty much immediately, and so to the Atlantic, author.

762
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: I guess the best way to sum it up is to

763
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: take an excerpt from their earlier piece in July twenty nineteen.

764
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: They say, quote, the important answers probably don't lie in

765
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: the ocean, but on land in Malaysia. That should be

766
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: the focus moving forward. Unless they are as incompetent as

767
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: the Air Force and air traffic control. The Malaysian police

768
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: know more than they have dared to say. The riddle

769
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: may not be deep. That is the frustration here. The

770
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: answers may well lie close at hand, but they are

771
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: more difficult to retrieve than any black box. If Blaine

772
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: Gibson wants a real adventure, he might spend a year

773
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: poking around Kuala Lumpur. I don't know what do you

774
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: think of that, Matt.

775
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 3: It's weird to put it on Blaine Gibson like that,

776
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: because I think what he's doing is separate from what

777
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: the writer is talking about. The writer's saying about right

778
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 3: and an investigation into that corruption. What Blaine is doing

779
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 3: is literally trying to find pieces and then trace back,

780
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: working with Australia and a couple other places to trace

781
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 3: back to the originating point to find that black box.

782
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 3: So I don't know, to make inequivalency out of those

783
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me.

784
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that.

785
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: No, No, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't It doesn't

786
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 3: make sense to me. But I see what the author

787
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 3: is saying in the same right that the way it

788
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: was obtuscated by the Malaysian military and some of those

789
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: you know groups, at least initially, it does lead you

790
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 3: down the path of they know something more than they're saying,

791
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 3: because they certainly did before it was leaked.

792
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: And now the question is did they reveal all the

793
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: stuff they knew at the time or are they for

794
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: some reason holding back information? And if so, what is

795
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: that information? Yeah? Why what is the motivation? It goes

796
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: down to information and motive. And this is close to

797
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: where today's episode ends. We do not have all the answers.

798
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: There are pages and pages written about the event, but

799
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: what we can conclude is that it does clearly seem

800
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: to have wrecked many of the survivors. The relatives, the

801
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: family members and loved ones of people who most likely

802
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: died on this plane would of course be joyous for

803
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: the closure of discovering the bodies, giving them a proper

804
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: burial and so on. But the ocean is vast, and

805
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: at this time, while we can speculate about the circumstances

806
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: of these people's unfortunate deaths, we can not pinpoint where

807
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: the bulk of the plane is now, or even if

808
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: the plane exists in one largely coherent piece.

809
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, man. It feels like if it

810
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 3: did crash into the ocean, you know, going as fast

811
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 3: as it generally would, it would be pretty difficult to

812
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 3: find a couple of big pieces of that plane. But

813
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense because it seems like there will

814
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 3: be more things in pieces floating on the surface than

815
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: wherever recovered.

816
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, the ocean is awash with trash, yeah, and huge.

817
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: It's very difficult. It's very Our species is very good

818
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: at losing things. It's very difficult to find missing planes.

819
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: I know that seems counterintuitive because planes are big, right, Yeah,

820
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: but the ocean is bigger, and we lose planes way

821
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: more often than I would like to believe. I agreed, agreed,

822
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: And this leads us to something that you have been

823
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 1: thinking of off air, right Occam's Razor.

824
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 3: Yes, there's an article that's written by Christine Nagrony, and

825
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: she she basically just puts the idea that if we

826
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: do take Okham's razor into account, here, the combination of

827
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 3: a transponder that ended up somehow in standby mode, a

828
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 3: depressurized cabin that disoriented the people who were meant to

829
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: be flying that plane, and then an inexperienced first officer

830
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,439
Speaker 3: who didn't know exactly what to do to then gain

831
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 3: control of the plane. Because in her mind, at least

832
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: to the facts that she has the idea that the

833
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: very very experienced pilot that was supposed to be piloting

834
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 3: the plane was in the bathroom for some reason in

835
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 3: the main cabin or in the business class cabin when

836
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 3: the cabin depressurized so that he could not get back

837
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 3: to where he needed to be to fly the plane,

838
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 3: and the inexperienced guy was at the helm. That's at

839
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 3: least what she believes, and that's what led to ultimately

840
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 3: to the weird stuff that happened on the flight and

841
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 3: in the crash. But that scenario does not account for

842
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: that strange left turn, well, I mean, the whole turning

843
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 3: round of the plane from their heading towards Beijing to

844
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: then taking that big left turn towards Antarctica.

845
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: The manual Southwestern term, which was essentially.

846
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 3: A one to eight because somebody did that.

847
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone had to do that, And that's our classic

848
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: episode for this evening. We can't wait to hear your thoughts.

849
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: It's right let us know what you think.

850
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: You can reach.

851
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 2: You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on

852
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy

853
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 2: Stuff Show.

854
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: If you want to call us dial one eight three

855
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 3: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

856
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 3: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

857
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 3: we can use your name and message on the air.

858
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 3: If you got more to say, then can fit in

859
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 3: that voicemail. Why not instead send us a good old

860
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

861
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: We are the entities the read every single piece of

862
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

863
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

864
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

865
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,479
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

866
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.