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Speaker 1: Hi am Kate Hudson, and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationships and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling raivalry. No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 1: You don't do that with your mouth revelry. That's good.

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Speaker 1: This was such a great conversation. We spoke with Lisa

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Speaker 1: and Brian Henson and that this is Jim Henson who

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Speaker 1: is the creator of the Muppets. These are his children, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and these are his children who have have taken it

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Speaker 1: over since his since he passed, and have been doing

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Speaker 1: some really interesting things and keeping his work and then

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Speaker 1: adding adding to it as well. Going. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: I loved every second of it need too. Well, even

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Speaker 1: just a little window into his parents too, you know,

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Speaker 1: and how they came from, you know, how they met

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Speaker 1: in like puppeteering school and it was so like it's

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Speaker 1: just so eccentric and offbeat and odd, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, And also the artistry behind it, I

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Speaker 1: mean it really is. It's it kind of feels like

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Speaker 1: it's a dying art and yet there's still all these amazing,

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Speaker 1: you know, puppeteers out there who are creating these incredible

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Speaker 1: puppets and also learning about the muppets. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea half of the things that I learned on this

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Speaker 1: about snel about that it was not intended for children.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was like the whole thing. I was

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Speaker 1: just very taken by. Mm hmm. Also, just like the

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Speaker 1: icon like how Kermit and Miss Piggy sort of came about. Ah, Kermit,

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Speaker 1: we sang, we sang for them? Didn't we sing for them?

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Speaker 1: We did? Or did we sing for ourselves? After we

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Speaker 1: got off? And then and then I had a little

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Speaker 1: Kermit with me and we sang Rainbow Connection. I think

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Speaker 1: we destroyed Rainbow Connection. And it's really what. I love

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Speaker 1: that song. It's the Willie and Nelson version especially. But

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Speaker 1: it was also just a really interesting, interesting conversation because

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Speaker 1: these kids have had to take over an iconic brand

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Speaker 1: company and brand exactly and and and you know, how

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Speaker 1: to manage that and how to sort of individuate but

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Speaker 1: still keep the integrity of what their dad wanted them

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Speaker 1: to do. It was just a really fun conversation. They

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Speaker 1: were engaged and willing to tell the stories, and it

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Speaker 1: was really really fun. And they're doing really cool, cool shit,

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Speaker 1: right now too. I loved it. I absolutely loved it.

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Speaker 1: And Lisa Henson, who really runs the show, she was

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Speaker 1: just so sharp. I just enjoyed her frankness and you

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Speaker 1: could tell that she is more of the sort of

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Speaker 1: structured type of brain, whereas her brother Brian is more

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Speaker 1: of the creative you know, and kind of like more

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Speaker 1: director style. And yeah, she's the designated driver when Brian's

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Speaker 1: like on eighteen Hits of Acid. Well, I'm not so sure.

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Speaker 1: Brian is an eighteen Hits of Acid kind of guy, Ollie,

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Speaker 1: But but I don't know. Well, it was a good conversation.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna enjoy it and check out Earth to Ned

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Speaker 1: because I'm on it and I actually worked with Brian Henson. Hey, Allie,

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Speaker 1: do you remember when because I forgot that. They it's

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Speaker 1: also Fraggle Rock. Oh god, yeah, come the Fragle Rock

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Speaker 1: like him from One Another Day into I mean they're

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Speaker 1: like ingrained, ye, they're ingrained in my head. Fraggle Rock,

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Speaker 1: Oh god. Yeah, that is flashball memory where I'm like

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Speaker 1: like going down into the rock and the title sequence

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Speaker 1: it's like ingrained in my old brain. I know it's true.

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Speaker 1: It's trigger it's fit triggering you're like, I know, like,

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Speaker 1: where's our father? Where? What was your favorite Muppet? That's

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Speaker 1: a hard one, gosh. I mean Animal was always sitt out,

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Speaker 1: you know, just he was just crazy. I like, I

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Speaker 1: like that, you know. But then Oscar, you know, Oscar

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Speaker 1: the Grouch always dug him. I know, Oscar the Grouch Beaker,

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Speaker 1: Beaker always made me laugh. He's just a weirdo. I

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Speaker 1: loved Animal. Animal was great. And Miss Piggy, I mean

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Speaker 1: Miss Piggy always she was so funny. I mean she

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Speaker 1: was badass. All right, Well, I hope you guys enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this episode. Is really interesting and we absolutely loved having

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Speaker 1: them on the show. Yeah, we started off by talking

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Speaker 1: about Earth the Ned, which I did which is now

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Speaker 1: on Disney Plus. So, without further ado, here's Lisa and

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Speaker 1: Brian Henson. This is something we've been working on for

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Speaker 1: quite a while. But so Ned is a big giant

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Speaker 1: alien and he's the captain of a spaceship and they

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Speaker 1: were sent to Earth basically to invade or destroy Earth,

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Speaker 1: but Ned instead I fell in love with Earth mostly

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Speaker 1: through TV. He started monitoring TV and he just fell

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Speaker 1: in love with everything entertainment and celebrities and pop culture,

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Speaker 1: and so he and his lieutenant Cornelius, who's is put

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Speaker 1: upon sidekick, and their artificial intelligence Betty, who is a

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Speaker 1: virtual character, and then there's a whole bunch of these

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Speaker 1: little clods that are running around which are kind of

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Speaker 1: the crew, the disposable crew. And so he decided, rather

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Speaker 1: than invading and destroying Earth, I'm going to do a

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Speaker 1: talk show so that I'll be the most beloved celebrity

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Speaker 1: in the world. That's basically what he wants. So and

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Speaker 1: then what he does is he and Cornelius have the

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Speaker 1: ability to just beam anybody into their ship anytime they want.

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Speaker 1: And Oliver was beamed into I was beamed in and

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Speaker 1: it was a ball and the actor was offstage, you know,

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Speaker 1: improving with me. It was all improv, which was so fun. Well,

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Speaker 1: he's a puppeteer. He was working the face. He was

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Speaker 1: working the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, on Ned, there's two

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Speaker 1: up here is we're going to face by remote and

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Speaker 1: then there's one puppeteer inside and three puppeteers under, all

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Speaker 1: six of them working one character. Okay, so now that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about puppeteering, it was a blast. I want

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Speaker 1: to start from the beginning now, but for for those

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Speaker 1: who don't know that are listening right now, your father

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Speaker 1: was the beloved and very infamous and uh infamous, I

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Speaker 1: mean famous. It's like The Three Amigos. He's like, no, no no, no,

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Speaker 1: he's infamous. He's more than famous Three Amigos. We love

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Speaker 1: that movie, Jim Henson, and I know for us he

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Speaker 1: is like a staple not only in our childhood and

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Speaker 1: your guys' childhood clearly, but even kids today, their childhood.

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Speaker 1: He just lives on and on. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things I learned when I was doing my research on

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Speaker 1: you guys was that your mom and him met literally

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Speaker 1: your parents met at puppeteer school. They met at a

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Speaker 1: puppeteering class, that's right. Yeah, I didn't know how influentially

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Speaker 1: your mother was to all of this as well. So

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to just start with where were

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Speaker 1: you born? Well, I'm going to start with he where

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Speaker 1: I was born because I'm the oldest. So I was

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Speaker 1: born in I was born in Washington, D C. And

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Speaker 1: that's where our parents were living at that time. As

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Speaker 1: you said, they met in puppeteering class at the University

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Speaker 1: of Maryland. My father was a freshman and he was

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Speaker 1: really precocious and advanced, and you know, my mom always

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Speaker 1: said that it was like he was teaching the class

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Speaker 1: like he had already been doing a puppet show on

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Speaker 1: television locally, which he'd started as a teenager, so by

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Speaker 1: he was just taking that classes to get a really

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Speaker 1: easy credit because he was already a puppeteer. And so

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Speaker 1: he sort of took the lead in the class and

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Speaker 1: thought she was a pretty good student, and so he

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Speaker 1: hired her to come and help him on the local

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Speaker 1: television show. And she was three years older than him,

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Speaker 1: so it was a freshman and a senior, which seemed

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Speaker 1: like a vast age golf when they first met, but

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Speaker 1: then they worked together for a long, long time, best

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Speaker 1: of friends, partners in the business, and then ultimately very

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Speaker 1: romantically involved. Were they both from DC or where were

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Speaker 1: they from? Originally? The father was born in Mississippi, mom

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Speaker 1: born in New York City? So what year was this

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Speaker 1: in the fifties, like late fifties, And you know, I

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Speaker 1: was born INTI. I was born in nineteen sixty And

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Speaker 1: somebody had sort of the bad idea at least it's

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Speaker 1: sort of been a kind of a bad joke on

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Speaker 1: me of incorporating the Muppets on my birthday, which has

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Speaker 1: caused people to celebrate Kermit the Frog's birthday on my birthday.

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Speaker 1: So it will show up as like, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you say, like what celebrities are born on what day,

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Speaker 1: it will be like May ninth, nineteen sixty Kermit the Frog,

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Speaker 1: It's like, not k that's me. I was going to

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Speaker 1: how many kids are there? How many siblings do you have? Five?

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Speaker 1: There are five total. Our brother died. It's a b's podcast,

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Speaker 1: Like when you hold up five fingers that just means

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Speaker 1: you're right. That doesn't help it all. Uh, there, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there were five of us. Our brother passed away, and

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Speaker 1: so there's now three girls and one boy. And what's

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Speaker 1: the age difference from Lisa from you to the youngest?

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Speaker 1: Ten years? My mom had five kids in ten years. Wow,

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Speaker 1: it were just it was just a brood, but she

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Speaker 1: had but she had four of us in five years

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Speaker 1: and then yeah, the fifth was five years later, so

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Speaker 1: she was literally just pregnant. So what was that? What

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Speaker 1: was the house like, what was it like growing up?

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Speaker 1: Just craziness. You almost asked the most unwelcome question that

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Speaker 1: we're there were always asked, which is like did we

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Speaker 1: did dad do puppets around the house? And did we

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Speaker 1: and did we think the puppets were real? So I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going I wasn't going there quite yet. But Oliver

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Speaker 1: you're allowed to because in ours and when Oliver came

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Speaker 1: on earth to Ned, we we we we asked your permission.

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Speaker 1: But we did the whole interview where Ned is only

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Speaker 1: excited about everybody else in your family just wants to

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Speaker 1: know about Kurt. Yeah, we have a we have that

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Speaker 1: in common. I was gonna say, like the relatable aspect

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Speaker 1: of this interview will be we know what it's like

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Speaker 1: when people ask the same. So what kind of advice

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Speaker 1: did your dad give you? Was it just performing every

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Speaker 1: morning breakfasting? Did you sing? Right? Yeah? No? Well, for us,

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Speaker 1: we had a house full of animals, and our mother

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Speaker 1: was she she co founded the muppets and was very

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Speaker 1: but obviously once it was a house full of kids.

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Speaker 1: She was also like an art teacher. She would sometimes

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Speaker 1: be a substitute, but she was like an art teacher

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Speaker 1: at home. So there was always crazy arts and crafts

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Speaker 1: that were half finished in rooms all over the place.

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Speaker 1: And then there was just animals, like animals everywhere what

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Speaker 1: kind of animals like dogs and cats are like rabbits, birds,

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Speaker 1: It was well, I had rabbits, my brother had ferrets,

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Speaker 1: we had guinea pigs, we had hamsters at one point,

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Speaker 1: with birds mostly a lot of cats and the cats.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't even keep the cats away, Like the cats

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Speaker 1: would run away from a neighbor's house and come move

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Speaker 1: into our house, and then we couldn't get the cat

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Speaker 1: to move back to the neighbors. So we just ended

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Speaker 1: up like gathering cats like us, like a snowball. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some of them had. Some of them didn't have good

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Speaker 1: names either, because after we had so many cats, then

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Speaker 1: they would just get named for like where they came from.

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Speaker 1: Like one was named Wilderness, one was named woods Wood,

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Speaker 1: and then we just gave up. One was named Kitty.

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Speaker 1: Although my cat that I had we were allowed to

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Speaker 1: name the first cats we got we each named. Mine

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Speaker 1: was named snowy Feats wow, because they had but it

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Speaker 1: was specifically snowy Feats. Which was the other thing about

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Speaker 1: our cat house is the cats. The way they would

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Speaker 1: get into the house is we would leave this door

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Speaker 1: open on the second floor terra terrace off the back

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Speaker 1: of the house, and the cats would climb the outside

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Speaker 1: of the house, which was wood. Literally they hang out

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Speaker 1: with their claws and climb up one story to get

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Speaker 1: to the terrace. And that's somebody they would get in

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Speaker 1: and out of the house, particularly during the night, And

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Speaker 1: the raccoons figured it out, and the raccoons started following

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Speaker 1: cats up. And then the raccoons and the cats got along,

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Speaker 1: so it was all fine. And so we the raccoons

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Speaker 1: started eating with the cats, and my mother was like, Ah,

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Speaker 1: what the heck, I'll just feed them all. So so

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Speaker 1: then we got to the point where we'd be sitting

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Speaker 1: having dinner and there'd be three raccoons at the right

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Speaker 1: at right at the patio door next to us, just

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Speaker 1: waiting for their dinner. It was. It was crazy. It was.

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Speaker 1: The house was like a crazy zoo. Was it really was?

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Speaker 1: Were there any rules? I mean it was it was

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Speaker 1: a very free a free home to do what you please. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty unruly. Yeah, it was pretty free. Like

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Speaker 1: there were even like things you would think they have

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Speaker 1: to have a rule against that, like jumping off the

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Speaker 1: balcony into the swimming pool or or jumping down the

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Speaker 1: laundry shoot two floors, like everything was allowed as far

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Speaker 1: as I can remember, So that while when you were kids,

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Speaker 1: was the Muppets happening? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, was that before

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Speaker 1: you were born? Yeah, the Muppets were started? What officially

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Speaker 1: did fifty five? Lisa, fifty five to fifty eight? It's

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Speaker 1: like I did. I think it became incorporated in fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: but really they started like in fifty five, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, five years before Lisa was born. No, definitely,

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Speaker 1: and then like Sesame Street. See, up until Sesame Street,

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Speaker 1: our dad never did any He didn't do kids stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he did the special with your Mom, did he was

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Speaker 1: on Yep, that's right, Yeah, and I forgot he only yeah.

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Speaker 1: He and Kermit was a guest had a very funny

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Speaker 1: piece where Goldie kisses Kermit and Kermit warns her that

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Speaker 1: he might turn into a prince, and then she kisses

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Speaker 1: him and she turns into a puppet and then Ruth

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Speaker 1: Buzzy comes in that shit, everybody turns into puppets because

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Speaker 1: the kissing into pretty ridiculous but hilarious. But up until

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Speaker 1: Sesame Street, our dad didn't do kids much. Kids prayed,

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Speaker 1: he did some very early in his career. But then

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Speaker 1: when Sesame Street came out. He started like entertaining to

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Speaker 1: our age group. So we were like, I was like

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Speaker 1: the perfect age for Sesame Street. Lisa, who's three years

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Speaker 1: older than me, was probably just a little old for

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Speaker 1: Sesame Street, right Lisa, when they started me, Sesame Street

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Speaker 1: came out when I was ten, so I would say

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Speaker 1: I was really a lot too old for sesame since

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Speaker 1: I learned my alphabet away a lot. But also originally,

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Speaker 1: but originally Sesame Street was targeting like the five year old,

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Speaker 1: marketing on younger and younger and younger as it's gotten.

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Speaker 1: So how did it all start? Though? I mean Sesame

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Speaker 1: Street was for kids, it was more it was more

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Speaker 1: sort of adult material. Prior to Sesame before that, he

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Speaker 1: was on at Sullivan. He was a regular on at

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Speaker 1: the Muppets as a as an act was a regular

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Speaker 1: at Sullivan did the Tonight Show, Did Your Mom Specials?

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Speaker 1: Study and Share? They would basically do appearances and then

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Speaker 1: the Muppets had some specials too. They did. In fact,

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Speaker 1: we were just looking at his my Dad's diaries and

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Speaker 1: after doing the Goldie Han Show, he came up with

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Speaker 1: the idea of doing a Valentine special and he wanted

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Speaker 1: to do it with Goldie, but then I guess she

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Speaker 1: wasn't available and he ended up Once he finally did

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Speaker 1: sell it, he ended up doing it with Mia Farrell.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting that it was O'm cute. I love that,

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Speaker 1: Isn't it crazy when you think about, like what those times?

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Speaker 1: But that time must have been like for them because

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Speaker 1: you had just that one opportunity. How many channels did

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Speaker 1: you have, you know, to be able to do a special? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And those variety shows were so interesting. I remember going

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Speaker 1: to watch a lot of the tapings and you know,

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Speaker 1: you just even the idea of a variety show is

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Speaker 1: a little bit alien today, like because I tell people

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Speaker 1: they were like, how do the Muppets get started? So well,

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Speaker 1: they were on variety shows. They were a variety act,

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Speaker 1: and they went from one variety show to another, and

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Speaker 1: ultimate the Muppet Show kind of grew out of that

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Speaker 1: because it was the Muppets chance to have their own

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Speaker 1: variety show and bring on guests versus them being the

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Speaker 1: guest on somebody else's variety show. But the whole genre

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Speaker 1: it feels like it's you know, so much of the past.

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Speaker 1: Oliver and I were just we were just talking about this,

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Speaker 1: how we want to do a show, and we were like,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should do a variety. I know they're dead,

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Speaker 1: we should get backety with the numbers and you know

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Speaker 1: of actual like moving cameras and all that jazz. Do

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Speaker 1: they work a ton? I mean, were you guys on

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Speaker 1: your own to do your stuff or were they home

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Speaker 1: a lot? Well, there were some. There were so many

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Speaker 1: kids that our mother had to pretty pretty much stop working.

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Speaker 1: So our mother was home with us, got it almost

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Speaker 1: all the time. But our dad was working all the time.

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Speaker 1: He would try to come home if he was in

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Speaker 1: New York, he would generally come home, but I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: He would come home like maybe just before we would

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Speaker 1: go to bed. And he worked a lot. He was

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Speaker 1: also crazy. He couldn't do like seventy two hour stretches.

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Speaker 1: And he was just one of those people like in

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Speaker 1: the beginning of Sesame Street, he and Frank Oz and

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Speaker 1: Don Sealing, which was most of what Muppett Sink was

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Speaker 1: in those days. In the first year of Sesame Street,

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Speaker 1: they did all the animated films too, so he was

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Speaker 1: he was also an animator for Sesame Street and did

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Speaker 1: these animated films. But they used to go in and

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Speaker 1: just work NonStop until they'd finished the film, Like worked

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Speaker 1: for fifty five hours without stopping or sleeping. Wow. And

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Speaker 1: he also he also worked a lot in Canada and

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Speaker 1: in England, and so we did get used to him

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Speaker 1: being gone for long stretches of time. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when you think back, like that was no texting with

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Speaker 1: your kids family, You know, that was really out of touch.

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Speaker 1: Where were you guys living at the time, Like, where

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Speaker 1: was the family home suburbs of New York? Yeah, Armank.

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Speaker 1: We were in Armank, New York, which is right next

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Speaker 1: to Bedford, New York, which more people know. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I was were in New York City. But then right

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Speaker 1: after I was born, the family moved to Greenwich, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: and then just over the border to Bedford, New York.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we grew up until we all went

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Speaker 1: off to school. So wait, growing up, what was your

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Speaker 1: relationship like with your siblings? It was a pretty tight group.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of you, there's five of you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: was it a big unit or were there their little

329
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Speaker 1: factions at first? When we were really young, Like we

330
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Speaker 1: didn't even have other playmates. Particularly we lived in this

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Speaker 1: beautiful home in Greenwich, Connecticut, and there were no neighs.

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Speaker 1: There were no neighbors, and my mom is a little

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Speaker 1: bit antisocial, so like we were each other's playmates. That

334
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Speaker 1: was it. And then later we moved to Armac, New York,

335
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Speaker 1: we had a neighborhood, we had some we made we

336
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Speaker 1: started making some other friends. But yeah, when we were

337
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Speaker 1: literally we were extremely close knit. Yeah, but you know,

338
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Speaker 1: there weren't factions so much, but certainly for we were

339
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Speaker 1: so close in age that that always creates some issues.

340
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Speaker 1: Like I wanted my friends, but my brother wanted my friends.

341
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Speaker 1: And then my sister, you know, like for me, I've

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Speaker 1: got a there's a sister between Lisa and I so,

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Speaker 1: and Lisa and I are only three years before SO,

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Speaker 1: and there's one in the middle. So my older sister

345
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Speaker 1: was just like one to two grades higher than me,

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Speaker 1: depending on whether it was before or after. I had

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Speaker 1: to be held back. And then my brother was one

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Speaker 1: grade under me. And it was just like we were

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Speaker 1: so close in age. I was just like crossed my

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Speaker 1: mind something really interesting and maybe it's not to anybody

351
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Speaker 1: else but me, but I was thinking about how when

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Speaker 1: we were growing up, when we were young, nobody knew

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Speaker 1: really who our parents were until we got older, until

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00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: we were more in the teens, because our parents made

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Speaker 1: movies that we didn't watch when we were kids. So

356
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Speaker 1: but for you guys, your parents did things that like

357
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: every kid was watching, I mean, like millions of kids

358
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: over what a hundred countries watched The Muppets or Sesame Street.

359
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: Like everybody that you must have known when you were

360
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: little knew that, like your parents that were your family

361
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: was they knew the Muppets. Some people knew Jim Henson

362
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: because he had done personal appearances on talk shows, but

363
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Speaker 1: really it was the Muppets that were so famous. And

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Speaker 1: then what happened is my dad I think he did

365
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 1: the was at least the first American Express card commercial.

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Speaker 1: It was that American Express cards campaign. Yeah, the first

367
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: time they did that. That signature campaign were the one

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Speaker 1: where they said you may not know me, but you

369
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Speaker 1: do know of me or what what was the catchphrase

370
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: of that least if something like that. I remember that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was all hosted by people who their work was

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Speaker 1: very well known, but people didn't know them. I don't know,

373
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Speaker 1: but that ad took off like what fire and they

374
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Speaker 1: just placed it everywhere all the time. So for us.

375
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 1: Literally like over nine our dad became face famous right

376
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Speaker 1: up until one day he could be anywhere nobody know

377
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: who the heck he was, and then it felt like

378
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: the next day he couldn't walk down the street without

379
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: being recognized. It was also the height of popularity of

380
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Speaker 1: Sesame Street, so he had he was, like, as we

381
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Speaker 1: were saying, like sort of a variety show act, not

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Speaker 1: the you know, the Muppets were not the star of

383
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Speaker 1: a huge hit show. And so Sesame was also very

384
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Speaker 1: big at that time. And it was so big I

385
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: think they showed it on PBS like four times a day,

386
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: like you could just turn on that channel and it

387
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: would just be Sesame Street all the time. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: the one two punch of the American Express ad and

389
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Speaker 1: then the Sesame Street success. And I think this was

390
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: around seventy one or so that this happened. Then suddenly

391
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: he was very famous. I was just talking about this,

392
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Speaker 1: Actually I forget with who, but I was saying how

393
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: Sesame Street was so far ahead of its time as

394
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: far as inclusion and diversity and you know, finding the

395
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: oddities and bringing them to light, you know what I mean.

396
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: It was just so far ahead of its time. Was

397
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: so so progressive. So it truly was. And also the equity,

398
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: the idea that there's that urban kids were not we're

399
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: not getting the same advantage of private preschools, and at

400
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: that time wasn't even preschool. It was really kindergarten. You know,

401
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 1: they were you know, kids that were not going to kindergarten,

402
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: and then other kids that were going to full time kindergarten.

403
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: They had a big advantage over the other kids. But

404
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: just the idea that the show should be created, you know,

405
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: not only to harness the power of television in terms

406
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: of educating kids, but really to address a kind of

407
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: societal in equity which does feel very contemporary. Mm hmm,

408
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: it does. I mean. And obviously that was your dad's vision, right,

409
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: I mean from the actually wasn't. No, he was, he was,

410
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: he was on it from the very beginning. He was

411
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: a big talent get for them. It was actually created

412
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: by academics and public television producers who created they went

413
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: they had a workshop called Children's Television Workshop and it

414
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: was with academics at Harvard. They they studied what, you know,

415
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: what could be taught to kids through television, and it

416
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: was you know, really I think the first like hard

417
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: educational show on television. Because now we think, well, there's

418
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: just there are just hundreds of educational shows, but at

419
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 1: the time, that was it. They experimented on how you

420
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: could teach and then they did it. Yeah. I mean

421
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: the big shows when Sesame Street came out were like

422
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: Mister Rogers and Local cap Yeah. So for me growing up,

423
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: like I remember going on the sets of Big Trouble,

424
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Little China, and I was just in awe right, like

425
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: I would I would. I mean, it made me want

426
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: to be creative. It was like, oh, yeah, this is

427
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: the world that I want to be a part of.

428
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I want to do this. I mean, I wonder there's

429
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: five kids, of all of the kids, did all of

430
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: you guys have a little bit of that where you

431
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: wanted to follow in this footstep? Because your mom too,

432
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: I mean, even though she she's clearly a creative I mean,

433
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: oh huge, and she she you know, she founded them

434
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: up with our dad. It was just there was so

435
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: many kids at home, but definitely we all spend a

436
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of time on the set with our dad, largely

437
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: because he worked so much that, for instance, if he

438
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: was working in New York on a weekend, he would

439
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: take at least one of us to work with him.

440
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: So if it was not a school day and he

441
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: had to go to work, he would take at least one,

442
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: maybe two of us to work. So so we all

443
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: spend a lot a lot of time hanging out in

444
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: them up at workshop. Hanging out in the shooting stage

445
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: is reading. You know, for me, a lot of my

446
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: childhood was spent reading paperback novels, sitting on the floor

447
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: of a shooting stage and loving and loving me too.

448
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: Not only on the floor, but under the puppet stage

449
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: because yeah, the way that the puppeteers work, they have

450
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: a raise stage and then so the set is raised,

451
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: so there's this whole kind of underground below the set

452
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: of scaffolding and such, and there's also monitors down there

453
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: so the puppeteers can see what they're doing. So as

454
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: a child, you could PLoP yourself hide under this stage,

455
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: watch what they're doing on the monitors, and just go

456
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: about your business of reading, homework, whatever. And we did

457
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: long days on the set, like you know, it wasn't like, oh,

458
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: visit for an hour and a half, you know, it

459
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: was you know, call to rap, and you just got

460
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: very used to being yeah, yeah, ers down for twelve hours. Yeah,

461
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: we would just sit there all day. It was just

462
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: what we did was it was it nice to get picked,

463
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: meaning like Dad's like, all right, you guys come with me,

464
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: and the rest are like, god, damn it. You know. Yeah, actually,

465
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: but I think he was he was always very careful

466
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: to try to kind of give equal time. I think

467
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: he was. Actually, he was always very careful. I think

468
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: like those days that we spent with him while he

469
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: was working and get to be the one kid or

470
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: the one of the two kids that were there with

471
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: him that day would feel it would feel really really

472
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: special because he was incredibly inclusive, like he would bring

473
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: us into the editing room, to every meeting, to the

474
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: story meeting, to the to like the private conversation with

475
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: the executive producer about what's really going on. Like you know,

476
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: we we really went with him absolutely everywhere. And then consequently,

477
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: as you were asking, we did all get very interested

478
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: in the business, and all of us did work in

479
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: the business in different ways since we were teenagers or

480
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, unofficially even earlier, and you and he had

481
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: this idea that we would have a family company. So

482
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: he was sort of looking at all of us to

483
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: see what roles we could take within the company. And

484
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, some of us embraced it, some of us

485
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: were a little rebellious about those roles. Ultimately, here we are,

486
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: like we own the company together, we run it together.

487
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: So it all did you know his wish came true?

488
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: Is everyone involved in it? Not just yes to some degree.

489
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: Everybody is to some degree. I mean Lisa and I

490
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: really put in the most time, I guess into it,

491
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: but but everyone's involved to some degree. But you know,

492
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: when Lisa was talking about how he would bring us anywhere,

493
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: so there was I can really only remember one time

494
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: that my dad was genuinely, really really angry at me,

495
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: because he didn't usually he almost never actually got angry

496
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: so rarely, and there was one time he was really

497
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: really angry because, as Lisa says, he would bring us anywhere.

498
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: And one day I was in New York with him,

499
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: where working, and they had to go do a meeting.

500
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: He was with Frank Oz. They had to go do

501
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: a meeting. I think it was Frank Oz, might have

502
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: been David Laser, and I was just in the habit

503
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: of wherever I go, I would plunk myself in the

504
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: corner and read a paperback novel. So he's going to

505
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: have a meeting. I don't even really know who it's

506
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: with or anything. And Jackie on Nassis walks and we're

507
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: just sitting anyway, We're sitting in this office waiting for

508
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: my dad to have a meeting, and I take out

509
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: my paperback novel and just start reading. And Jackie Nassas

510
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: walks into her office to have a meeting with my dad,

511
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: and my dad and I think it was Frank stood

512
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: up and shook hands, and I, of course just did

513
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: what I always do, which is I stayed in the

514
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: corner reading my paperback novel. When we got out of

515
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: that meeting, he was so angry at me. He was like,

516
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: you stand up when a woman enters the room. And

517
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm sorry, Dad, I didn't stand up. Oh

518
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: my gosh. He was really anyone upset with me that

519
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: I was that rude, awful, unruly, undisciplined. Actually, Jackie stopped

520
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: reading his paperback marvels. I'm sure for everyone that like

521
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: Jackie Jackie, oh, walking into a room is like yeah,

522
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: but he stops everybody in their track. But he didn't

523
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: know except I was so young. Yeah, yeah, so it

524
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: sounds like he has. He was pretty even tempered. He

525
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: didn't really get angry much, huh. He was famously even

526
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: tempered and almost kind of like kind of zen pieceful

527
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: through all kinds of conflict. He actually hated conflict, which

528
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: is which is a step beyond being even tempered. So

529
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: he's even tempered, but also really did not like conflict

530
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: around him, and that that would give him a little

531
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: inner conflict at those times. So you could get a

532
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: little a little repressed about anger because he just didn't

533
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: want conflict around him. But he was just a really

534
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: genuinely up to upbeat guy who was look very much

535
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: the glass half full, very much like what is if

536
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: something is a challenge or difficult, Like how what can

537
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: we learn from this? Like you know, so many of

538
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: those those values of just being genuinely positive looking for

539
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: opportunities to be creative and grow and learn from things

540
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: like that was really what he was saying. That's so

541
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: amazing and also like such a hard thing to live

542
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: up to. Well, I was just about to ask, who's

543
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: the most like him of the siblings. Do you think

544
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: as far as disposition goes, perhaps our brother who passed

545
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: away probably, Oh really, it's very sunny, sunny individual. Yeah, yeah,

546
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: and mom did Did Mom appreciate conflict sometimes? Or was

547
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: she also similar even tempered a little opposite opposite, loved conflict,

548
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: loved to like just get into it. And consequently they

549
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: didn't remain married for their whole lives, Like it didn't

550
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: work out long term because you know, he really didn't

551
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: want to engage in active conflict, to conflict or debate

552
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: or you know, deep questioning. He actually was. He was

553
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: a very in the moment kind of person and truly

554
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: very I keep saying upbeat and positive. There must be

555
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: a better word for that, but you know, or a

556
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: deeper word for that, but it wasn't. But when we

557
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: were saying our mom, I could remember her getting mad

558
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: in ways that I used to love. I remember there

559
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: was one time, oh my god, she threw her We

560
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: were at ice cream store and some guy nearly backed

561
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: up into my brother and I because he hadn't looked

562
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: in his rear view mirror and he started bagging out

563
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: of a parking space and almost hit us. And she

564
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: just went over and threw the ice cream cone into

565
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: this gas car, and then we had to leave quickly.

566
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: But but the truth is it wasn't like she got

567
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: angry a lot. It was a little tough for my

568
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: dad because he because they co founded the company, so

569
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: they create they created the Muppets together, and then my

570
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: mom was suddenly so full time mom because she was

571
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: pregnant for five years straight, and so he'd come home

572
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: from work all exhausted, and all he wanted to know

573
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: was how were we, how was school? And she wanted

574
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: to talk to him about work. She wanted to know

575
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: how work was going, how the Muppets were doing, and

576
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: he didn't want to have that conversation because he was

577
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: tired and he'd been finishing. So that was sort of

578
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: when Lisa says it was a little conflict between them,

579
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: it was that was usually at the at the heart

580
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: of what the conflict was. Do you think there was resentment?

581
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: You know, just like, God, damn it. I love our

582
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: kids and I know I know this is where I'm at,

583
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: buts raising there and this is something we did together,

584
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: and I should be there both of our dreams a

585
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense. It makes sense.

586
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean, at the at the end of the day,

587
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: it also is a very different generation and it might

588
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: have been different if you know it was today. I

589
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: can totally relate to both of their situations from my dad. Yeah,

590
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: and she found a great role for herself sort of

591
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: in the puppetry community because while it wasn't easy for

592
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: her to dip in and out of the day to

593
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: day of running a big business. You just can't do that,

594
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: like you're either in it or you're not in it.

595
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: And for her, it was better for her to not

596
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: be in it. And but she was so so good

597
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: to the puppetry community, you know, so good at discovering

598
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: new talent, at helping people in other you know, other

599
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: puppet troops and other parts of the puppetry world like

600
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: the theater puppeteers and international puppeteers. And she became like

601
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: very beloved as a as a mentor and a teacher

602
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: and all of that. And yeah, she taught, she taught puppetry.

603
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: So most of our puppeteers were initially of that generation.

604
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: We're initially found by how old were you guys when

605
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: when they split up? It was like early eighties, Yeah, okay,

606
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: so they were so you were yeah you were a

607
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: little older. Yeah, Yeah. Was it hard on the family

608
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: because you were older or didn't. Did that make it

609
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: a little easier. It was really good because they had

610
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: different they were in different places, you know. I think

611
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: for me, I think it was one of those divorces

612
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: that I was eager to see happened, and I found

613
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: they got along better when they weren't living together. Yeah,

614
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: I mean, we're all We're all products of divorce. That's

615
00:36:48,920 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: what it is. Article inspired by bold graphic elements eighties

616
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: postmodernism articles. Newest Look features pops of pastels, jewel tones,

617
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: playful touches for a no rules approach that's refreshing, right

618
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: and inviting. No rules. Listen, we didn't write that, but

619
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: I want that. Yeah, well, the no rules approach, I like, yeah,

620
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: I mean this whatever, this this sentence is from articles team.

621
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: I just want them to know I love it and

622
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm in for whatever. That no rules, refreshing,

623
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: bright and inviting home feels like. Well, the no rules

624
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: is they give you all kinds of options, different styles

625
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Speaker 1: and colors and palettes and textures, and then you can

626
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: create your own thing. You can breathe your own life

627
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: and warmth into your space. You know what I mean?

628
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: You got you gotta keep your eyes peeled, your Instagram

629
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: open for inspiration because Article has all that stuff. Those

630
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: curs I don't know if I can curse with Article

631
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: Articles newest. They have a new collection Allie, and it

632
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: is all about encouraging mixing and matching styles. I have

633
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Speaker 1: a bunch in my house. My outdoor furniture is Article.

634
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: It's it's it's awesome, I mean it really is, and

635
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: it's it's good quality and it's not that expensive because

636
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: they cut out the middlemen. So when you're buying furniture

637
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: from like a place, there's so much in between that

638
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,719
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639
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Speaker 1: As a woman, do you think growing up seeing your mom,

690
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, she founded this and didn't necessarily was able

691
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: to follow it through. Did that kind of inform the

692
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: things that you wanted to do as a woman and

693
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: how you see your work relationship. Yeah? I was so

694
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: different from my mom that and sometimes I would question,

695
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: like am I even a woman? Like I'm so I

696
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: was following my dad every step of the way, Like

697
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: what can I do to be more like him? In

698
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: every way? So, you know, he was my role model,

699
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: He was my mentor icon and every way. I took

700
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: me a really long time to relate to my mom

701
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: until I had kids my own. I didn't understand almost

702
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: anything that she did or what And then I had

703
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: a tremendous understanding. You know, as soon as I had kids,

704
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is huge, Like this is

705
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: this is really really amazing. You can make the meaning

706
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: of your life about kids. But I, you know, I

707
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: had kids a little bit later, and I had a

708
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: big career, and and I I just yeah, I was

709
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: more defined by not being like her as I was

710
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: growing up. And were you so when you had kids,

711
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: were you able to sort of balance that career and kids,

712
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: and was that informed by the way you grew up? Well,

713
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: I think I balanced all of her. He's an armchair psychologist.

714
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: You don't have to answer, And yeah, I think I

715
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: balanced it. But I've been working full time the whole

716
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: time I've been raising my kids, and so, you know,

717
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: you would there would occasionally be questions like, well, why

718
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,479
Speaker 1: do you work so hard? Why do you work full time?

719
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: Why do you just work half time? Since your mom,

720
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: I was like, well, as I said before, it's like,

721
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: I think you're either in it or you're out of it.

722
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: Like you know, to me, I'm in it. And I

723
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: like to think that the pleasure that I get from

724
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: the work and the quality of what we do and

725
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: all of those things I hope would be encouraging to

726
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: my kids about having careers of their own or getting

727
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: or being being creatively connected to what they do. And

728
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to think that I'm being a

729
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: role model. But you know, I didn't spend as much

730
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: time with my kids as my nanny did. So well,

731
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: hanging out, oh god, I know we were clearly our

732
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: dad is. He was the one who was setting the

733
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: role model of being a functioning adult and I don't know.

734
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: I think in our family, I think what we do,

735
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: what our work is is too is a little bit

736
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: too important. It's in our heads, and I think we're

737
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: all just a little bit too much trying to define

738
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: ourselves by what we do, and and that creates I

739
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: think natural like insecurities and stuff like that. I think

740
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: that what I do has been too important to me

741
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: deep inside, and it makes you a little bit crazy.

742
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: It makes you a little bit crazy. And I think

743
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: all of us siblings are a little bit crazy in

744
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: our families. I think a little bit of that came

745
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: from our being too important. What you do is just

746
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: too important. But you but you recognize, you know that,

747
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: but you still just like, oh, like I'm still crazy.

748
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: It's still crazy. Yeah, you do have to remind yourself

749
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: like it's just it's just television. It's just it's just puppetry,

750
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: you know. But that's like telling the monarchy like you're

751
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: just a prince, Like it's legacy stuff, you know. So

752
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: you see, and you grow up with your parents not

753
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: only working so hard, but caring so much about what

754
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: they're putting out into the world, like you feel you

755
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: do feel a little bit of this sort of duty

756
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: to that legacy to not let them down. Is there

757
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 1: pressure there? I know I feel that way. Yeah, No,

758
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: there's no pressure that what they were joll saying was

759
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: there pressure? And I was like, oh my god, are

760
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: you kidding? I was twenty seven when I had to

761
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: take over the company my dad. I was twenty six

762
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: when he died. Twenty seven, want to see you? The

763
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: pressure was so horrible. Yeah, it was so horrible. Is wrong? Terrifying? Yeah,

764
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: terrifying is what it was. But when I made them

765
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: up at Christmas Carl, I was twenty eight, and I

766
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: was terrified, terrified throughout all of it, and the pressure

767
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: to not screw up was so horrible. But it also

768
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: made me really close with everyone I was working with.

769
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: Everybody was so supportive, so it was also very rewarding

770
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: at the end. But yeah, for me, certainly for me.

771
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: Lisa started her career, she was more in the studio

772
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: system and Warner Brothers in Columbia, whereas I was freelance

773
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: when my dad died. I was like, yeah, I was freelance,

774
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: but at least half the work I was doing was

775
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: with my dad, and I was a puppeteer and special

776
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: effects and a director of TV stuff. But yeah, no,

777
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: the Yeah, the pressure was really intense. I was so

778
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: terrified of screwing it up. And I would say, I

779
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: mean your father, he was fifty three right when he

780
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: passed away. Fifty three, I mean that's so young. I mean,

781
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: you guys were young, I would think and correct me

782
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. That the not only that pressure, but

783
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: just having to mourn it was very difficult. And I

784
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: reach out sometimes to other people who lose a famous

785
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: family member to say, to remember to mourn for yourself,

786
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: you know, because you have to somehow like address so

787
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: many total strangers and media and all this, and you

788
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: forget that you have like yourself to take care of

789
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: during all of that, you know. But and yeah, fifty

790
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: three was really really young. Obviously nobody was expecting it,

791
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: and the company was turned upside down instantly, and it

792
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: was very hard. We didn't I personally didn't feel any

793
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: grief for a year. And then about a year later,

794
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: I like had a huge panic attacks and anxiety and

795
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: it all like landed on me. But for a year

796
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: I was like a robot, Like just a robot dealing

797
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: with this. Was he was really I think my dad

798
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: was alive in my dreams. Still is probably still is

799
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: two nights a week, but for probably fifteen years it

800
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: was seven nights a week, seven nights a week. He

801
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: was there in my in my dreams, and yeah, because

802
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: we never we were we didn't really get to grieve.

803
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: We just sort of had to take over, right, I

804
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: mean it had to take over. But also the whole world.

805
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: It's like it's like everybody else took the In one way,

806
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: it was the illusion was that it was comforting when

807
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: the whole world is is mourning for what you feel

808
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 1: is your loss, but they feel it all is their loss.

809
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: The whole world, the whole world was morning when Jim

810
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: Henson died. And so at first you feel like this

811
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: is this is comforting because everyone's in this with me,

812
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: And then you realize you kind of got lost in

813
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: the mix and you never got a chance to process

814
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: it yourself or something. Now I'm not being clearly, you

815
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: are totally understand. I feel like it's it's it's like

816
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: anything else that just outshines even your own mourning process.

817
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: You're like, it's so big for everybody else, and therefore

818
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: like I have to be there to kind of stay

819
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: stay sturdy. I think that's right. How how did you

820
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: feel once once you made that first piece and you

821
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: had to take over and that pressure, was it alleviated

822
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: once you realize like, wait a minute, I can do this?

823
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: You know, was there that moment I still don't know

824
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: that I can do that? You still don't know? Well,

825
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: Lisa and Lisa run Lisa runs the company. Now, yeah,

826
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. You always have a no, you have

827
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: a Listen to me. I'm not an arrogant person. I

828
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: come across as very arrogant, But the truth is, I

829
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: have tons of self doubt, so I'm always I'm always

830
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: worried that what I'm doing isn't isn't as good as

831
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: people are saying. They're saying it's good to be nice

832
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: to me. You know. It was like one when I

833
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: made that movie Happy Time Murders and the and the

834
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: whole country hated it. I was like, finally, somebody's telling

835
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 1: me the truth. Finally. Funny. What how do you guys

836
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: work together? You guys have a good working relationship. Well,

837
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: we do very different We're very we do very different things.

838
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: You know. I came up through in the business, through

839
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: being an executive and a producer, and he came up

840
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: through being a performer and a director, and so we

841
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: kind of we definitely meet in the middle in terms

842
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: of running the company, and Brian ran the company for

843
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: many years and then he decided he would focus more

844
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: on the directing and the show running. And then I

845
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: just so I've been the CEO for a while, but

846
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: I think I protected myself from some of these fears

847
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: that Brian has had by just never putting myself out

848
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 1: there creatively on the same level. Like because I don't

849
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: direct and because I don't write and I don't perform,

850
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm being a producer. You're back like you're

851
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: behind the camera. You're behind the scenes, and you get

852
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more emotionally protected from the

853
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: scariness of doing your own creative work. But Darling, you

854
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: are still a puppeteer, don't you know. You're still building

855
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: the streams. I see what you're saying. It's interesting, But

856
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: speaking of puppet puppetry and puppeteering, it's it is interesting.

857
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: With my father, when he was in his forties and fifties,

858
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: he started to kind of realize that he was one

859
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: of the only really successful puppeteers and that you know,

860
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: puppeteers in general are just struggling and it was such

861
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: a you know, not respected art form. So he started

862
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: helping other puppeteers through his foundation that he set up

863
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: and through making you know, bringing people over from overseas

864
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: to perform in America. So it's interesting both of our

865
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: the sisters who are not on this podcast, both of

866
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: them are really really active with philanthropy and helping other

867
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: puppeteers through the Found Puppets, through the Jim Henson found Yeah,

868
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: that he has a Jim Henson Foundation, and then also

869
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: the museums that put out Jim's work, which is in

870
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: Atlanta at the Side for Puppetry Arts and also in

871
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: New York at the Museum of the Moving Image. And

872
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: so you know, both Cheryl and Heather are really good

873
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: to the puppeteers. And I think that's so important because

874
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, Jim was taking that responsibility on himself, you know,

875
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: when when he was getting older. How big is that

876
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: art form? I mean, would you consider it, like a

877
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: lot of people consider jazz a dying art form, which

878
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: makes me incredibly sad. I hope it's not the case,

879
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: and I hope it you know, I think the arts

880
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: always abs and flows. But would you say that puppeteering

881
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: still like maintains or is it kind of few and

882
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: far between that people go down that path. It's been

883
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: small our whole lives. It's a pretty small community and

884
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: it's not much bigger than it was. I will say

885
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: that the work that like my sisters have done and

886
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: Jim have they've done a lot to help the art,

887
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: the art puppetry world. So, you know, artistic puppeteers who

888
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: want to do theater, there are a lot more opportunities

889
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: for them, a lot more theaters interested in it than

890
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: there was in the seventies and eighties. But you know,

891
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: it's still a pretty small world, very very intimate. People

892
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: really know each other. Most puppeteers are very introverted until

893
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: they put a puppet on, so you know, they they

894
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: get to really exercise their alter egos and stuff like

895
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: that through the puppets. Puppeteers are weird people, puppet the

896
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: whole puppet. They are really weird people. I think. I

897
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: think Lisa is right. It's been a small community. It's

898
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: continues to be a small community. But they're really we're

899
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: really crazy people. I do remember going to all these

900
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: puppeteers in America conventions and stuff like that and going, wow,

901
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: they're really crazy. They're kind of really crazy people, but

902
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: crazy not in an angry mean way, but crazy and

903
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: are really weird. They're just really weird people. It's going

904
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: to be so appreciated by the public. Look what we're

905
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: doing for puppeteers today. No weird is good is a

906
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: good thing. I think the thing is is that we're

907
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: losing sight of all the weirdness because everything has to

908
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: be so perfect now. It's like the arts are weird,

909
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: we're weird people, and it should be embraced. How are

910
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: some of these characters created? You know, I mean, is

911
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: it is it the puppeteer themselves or do you do

912
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: you guys create some of these characters. It's that they

913
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: come out of like they come out of basically three places,

914
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: the puppet characters. So it's either the writer has created

915
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: a character on the page and has and has described

916
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: the character and it's come from the script, and then

917
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: and then we'll do designs, will pair up the character

918
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: with the puppet, the right performer, and then it and

919
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: then it becomes a character. But it can also come

920
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: out of the designers, and sometimes a designer we call

921
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: There are some puppets that are fabricated with no plan,

922
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: and like with the Muppet Show or the Muppet movies,

923
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: when they start making the background characters, often the p

924
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: the puppet builders are building puppets on their desk where

925
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: they don't really have a complete plan of exactly how

926
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: that puppet's going to come out, and that's really that

927
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: creates some really cool puppets. And then that puppet builder

928
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: will will show that puppet to the to the puppeteers,

929
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: and then and then somebody will go, I've got a

930
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: voice for that character, and it will come up that way,

931
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: and it can come from puppeteers, and literally, like if

932
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 1: I pull like my favorite characters, they're pretty much a

933
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: third to third a third. It might have come up

934
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: from the writers, it might come up from the public builders.

935
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: And then some of them are out of the puppeteers.

936
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: So like Bill Baretta does Pepe the Prawn in the

937
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: Muppets nowadays. And I've known Bill since he was a

938
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: little kid, and Pepe the Prawn, that crazy character is

939
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: his wife's mother thing or his wife's his wife's aunt,

940
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: and he would do an impersonation of his wife's aunt.

941
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: And then it was like, we've got to make a

942
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: puppet of that. And so sometimes it comes out performers,

943
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: sometimes out of the writers and sometimes out of the designers,

944
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: which is kind of cool. Different ways. How was Kermit

945
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: and miss b like, do you how was what was

946
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: the what was the conception? Well, Kermit is so old.

947
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: Kermit is one of the very very first So Lisa,

948
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: can you want to jump on Kermit? Kerrman pay you're

949
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: very different? Well, Kermit was famously sewn from a green

950
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: a green felt coat of my father's mother, my grandmother,

951
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,919
Speaker 1: and the spring coat. Imagine that color is a little

952
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: bit strange for a coat, but that is that's the truth.

953
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 1: And you know my mom, uh wasn't and Kermit wasn't

954
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: a frog. He was just a Kermit. He was Kermit,

955
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: the creature. He didn't have the collar of that crime.

956
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: He didn't have he had human feet, not not flippers.

957
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: But in the first Kermit okay, yeah, but he sewed

958
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: him when he was kind of he made him himself,

959
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: and he made him when he was really young, like

960
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 1: still a teenager. And my mom said that my father's

961
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: grandfather was dying and that he was taking it was

962
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: like sitting by his side, you know, for multiple days.

963
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: And that was when he happened to make Kerman and

964
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, that's so interesting. It's very deep.

965
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: But in any case, he was always considered a bit

966
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: of an alter ego for my dad because he was

967
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: in every almost every production that did involve muppets, you know,

968
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: unless it was a dark crystal type of thing. Almost

969
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: all the other productions had Kermit in some manner, and

970
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: he became the face of the show. And he was

971
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: very close to my father's personality but a little different,

972
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: but it's close. They're like alter egos. And it was

973
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: interesting because it was first it was Kermit that was

974
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: like that, that hosty lead character. Then for a little

975
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: while it was Ralph's the dog when our dad was

976
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: doing Ralph on the Jimmy Dean Show, the Variety Show,

977
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: and Ralph was so for a little wow, Ralph was

978
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: our dad's main character. He was the lead muppet for

979
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,959
Speaker 1: a while, Ralph, and then after the Jimmy Gaine Show,

980
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: it kind of then it went back to Kermit, and

981
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: Kermit became the Kermit that we know. But those two

982
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: characters are clearly the ones that are the most important

983
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: to our death was Ralph the Dog and Kermit the Frog.

984
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: When I think of Oliver, right, and this is like

985
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: one of those things that when he was little he

986
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: loved the rainbow connection that was. That's like still that's

987
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: like Oliver's number one Willie Nelson version two is so good. Yeah,

988
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: So Oliver I always think of whenever I think of, like,

989
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: I love that song still like makes me cross, Yeah,

990
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: Oliver emotions all great? What about the voice? Was that?

991
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: And was that a just natch? Was it? Boom? Right there?

992
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: Kermit's voice? This is Kermit's older than us, so now

993
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: we're we're talking about But basically he just put a

994
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: gooey thing into his voice. That's it. So Kermit is

995
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: basically Jim Henson, but he then puts everything into a

996
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: little gooey, a gooey machine. He sort of guys up

997
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: his voice and then it becomes Kermit and it pitched

998
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: up a little bit from where our dad's voice was.

999
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: But other than that, there's not a lot the gooey

1000
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: thing that was what he did. I want to touch

1001
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: a little bit on school and Lisa, you went to

1002
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: Harvard and then you were also the first female president

1003
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: of the Harvard Lampoon, And I do want to know

1004
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: a little bit about that, because I think that's really cool.

1005
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: How did that happen? It was really fun. I mean,

1006
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: the Lampoon is a is a comedy magazine that the

1007
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: school that is published by this club, which is the

1008
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: Harvard Lampoon. And when I went to Harvard, I didn't

1009
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: feel like I fit in that much. Actually, we went

1010
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: to public school in armank and I was aware that

1011
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: I had much less of a good education than a

1012
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of the kids that I met at Harvard. It

1013
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: was like they were so many private school kids. They

1014
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: had studied Latin and Greek, and I was just overwhelmed

1015
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: on a certain level. But the people that I immediately

1016
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: just hooked into and I felt such common ground with

1017
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: them were the kids that were on the Lampoon. And

1018
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: then I realized after I joined this Lampoon that I

1019
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: had known other Lampoon members in my childhood that were

1020
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: friends with my father. So Michael Frith, who was the

1021
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: designer of many many of the muppets, he had been

1022
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: on the lampoon, Christopher Serf, who has been at Serf's son,

1023
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: and Fred Gwynn, who was Herman Munster, who was a

1024
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: friend of who was like kind of a neighbor of ours,

1025
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: a friend of my father's. So I had known these

1026
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: Lampoon people. So I suddenly felt like I had like

1027
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: kind of found my tribe. And it's funny you were

1028
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: saying before, kid that you know, we're all like we're

1029
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: like circus people, you know, like creative people are weird

1030
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: or they're they're scruffy, and they're they're not perfect. And

1031
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: so when I found the Lampoon, it was kind of

1032
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: like those were my circus people, like, you know, as

1033
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: Harvard was a little too perfect and the Lampoon was

1034
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: a little more imperfect and felt more right for me.

1035
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: And so I was a graphic I was an artist

1036
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: and did a couple of covers and graphics stuff for them.

1037
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: I wasn't a writer. The real superstars of the Lampoon

1038
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: are always the comedy writers. And there's still huge in Hollywood,

1039
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: like huge, Like there's some years where the Comedy Emmy

1040
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: is just like four out of five of the nominees

1041
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: will be Lampoon people. Yeah, so it's still really big.

1042
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: But I was a little I was a little bit

1043
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: of a misfit even amongst the Lampoon people by being

1044
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: an artist and not a writer, right, and then you

1045
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: became president, and did it register to you that you

1046
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: were the first female to not at all? It was

1047
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: it was my one of my worst surprises was to

1048
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: wake up the next day and realize that it was news.

1049
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: I was completely unprepared. I did horrible interviews for the

1050
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: Today Show and Newsweek and all these things. And so

1051
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: one thing that I would that I learned from that,

1052
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: and I've kind of taken it with me as an adult,

1053
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: is if somebody ever tells you you need media training

1054
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: to do something, you must do the media training. Don't.

1055
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: Don't do a bunch of interviews not prepared. I try

1056
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: for me, he still wings. Oh god, That's why I'm

1057
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: so good at them. But when you're a first I

1058
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: would think that there would be a little bit of

1059
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 1: like pride, Yeah, like wow, that's I mean eventually made

1060
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: me now looking at it didn't seem to me that

1061
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: that would matter at all for you know, in terms

1062
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: of bigger news. Because there actually had been women on

1063
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: the Lampoon for ten years, there just hadn't been a

1064
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: president of the Lampoon who was a woman. Yeah, and

1065
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: you know it continues to I continue to be surprised

1066
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: when things make news like that. But Lisa, what so,

1067
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, your CEO, you're sort of in the business

1068
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: side of things, but you're an artist. You know, what

1069
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: are what are your creative outlets? Where is your artistry?

1070
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: Do you do? You just put that into your business

1071
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: pretty much, But it just put it into putting people

1072
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: together and putting you know, putting ideas with talent with people.

1073
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: And I don't draw anymore. I did really enjoy being

1074
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: I was very very artistic as a little kid, Like

1075
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: when Brian was talking about that those art project days.

1076
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: I was a huge project maker and you know, I

1077
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: wasn't afraid to draw or try to make anything. But

1078
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, my interest now is making things on a

1079
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: bigger scale, and you know, the productions are creative and

1080
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: we it's kind of embarrassing. It's like, yeah, I give

1081
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: really good creative notes. I'm really great with structure. Having

1082
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: a father like Jim and then taking over the company

1083
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: for so many years, is there ever a struggle of

1084
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: maintaining what he would have wanted and where you want

1085
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: to grow? Does that ever? Does that ever become conflicting. Yeah, no,

1086
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: no, no no, it's really it's really hard and initially and

1087
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: then Lisa picked it up after I did it for

1088
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of years. But yeah, it's tough because you're

1089
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: always trying to protect the legacy and let the legacy grow.

1090
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: But then, like our dad's number one creative advice is,

1091
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: don't ever copy yourself. You know, don't ever if it's

1092
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: not original, if it's not new, don't do it. Don't

1093
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: invest your time, your energy, just don't do it because

1094
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: it's just not good enough. I mean, he's the guy

1095
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: who canceled The Muppet Show at the end of season

1096
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: five when it was like the most successful show of

1097
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: the world I've ever seen, and he was like, I'm done.

1098
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm done. I've done five seasons. I can't I don't

1099
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: have another. I'm going to start repeating myself now. So so

1100
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: so so it was tough because because people would always say,

1101
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: so do you always try to think what would Jim

1102
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: have done in this moment, And then he said, yeah,

1103
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: well what he would have said was be original. So

1104
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: that's hard. So it's kind of you know, so it

1105
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: was always a little bit hard, but definitely for me

1106
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: and I'm sure Lisa's feeling the same way. Try trying

1107
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: to guide the creative effort of the company to always

1108
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: be in sync with that the big mission of Jim Henson,

1109
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: and then always trying to be original at the same time.

1110
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: And then I've had little little tangents like my Happy

1111
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: Time Murders movie that the world hated, that my dad

1112
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't have made that, and uh and and I have

1113
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: a show called puppet Up Uncensored, which is a blue

1114
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: puppet show that does a live show. That's actually that

1115
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: one's very successful and popular, which is fun. So where

1116
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: is that show? Where is that I put it? I

1117
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: just put it up. Well, it's a live show nowhere now,

1118
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: So it's nowhere now, nobody right theater right now. It's

1119
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: a theater show. I just did. I would, let's say

1120
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: last year, meaning nineteen. I had it up at not

1121
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,479
Speaker 1: Scary Farm Cool for a while, but I would chore

1122
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: it and then I put it up in the in

1123
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: the studio. It's just a fun it was improv puppet show.

1124
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: Really really, it's really fun. Actually, we staged it a

1125
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: lot at our lot on the on Librea so people

1126
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: could come and watch the show but also get a

1127
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: little it'll look at our our studio, which is pretty private,

1128
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: so became that was that was the most fun I

1129
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 1: think when you were putting up that show on the lot.

1130
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: I hope we can do it again. That's where I was, right,

1131
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: Was I in? I was in? Was it Charlie Chaplin's office?

1132
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: Is that That's where I was? That was cool? Yes, yes,

1133
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: ur the what is currently the Henson Lot as originally

1134
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: the Charlie Chaplin Lot. It's the little tutor looking buildings

1135
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: along Librea near Sunset, and it also has some very

1136
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 1: cool people own it in between, including a really long

1137
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: ownership by A and M Records, So Herb Albert you

1138
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: had it for years. We have a beautiful recording studio

1139
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: that's historical that they built, but there's layers of history.

1140
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: There's kind of fun that there's layers of history there though,

1141
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: where you have the Chapelain history. It was owned by

1142
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: a few other people, including Red Skelton who speaking of

1143
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: variety shows like he owned it at one point, and

1144
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: then many years owned by A and M Records. So

1145
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 1: it has all this rock and roll history and now

1146
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: on top of that the puppetry and the motion capture

1147
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: and all the kind of animation and things that we

1148
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: do there. So it's really it's a less than a

1149
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: square block, but you know, got a lot of history

1150
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: packed into it. What you're doing is historical. Do you

1151
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: ever feel that way times the spirit that the whole

1152
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 1: principle of puppetry is bringing something inanimate to life? Sometimes

1153
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: they have even even the Magic Castle sometimes brings in

1154
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: puppeteers because there's something like when they bring the beautiful

1155
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: marionettist there because even though he's not doing magic, he's

1156
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: doing marionette. But it's there is something where you where

1157
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: you do feel like, oh it's magic. It actually looked

1158
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 1: completely alive, and so I think there is a little

1159
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: bit of that in the in the nature of puppetry.

1160
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: And then of course, like we've grown up with it

1161
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 1: and we understand how it's all done, so you know,

1162
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: you there's no we can never say, oh, oh my gosh,

1163
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 1: I thought it was alive, Like we're never We're going

1164
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: to always be the insiders to it. But even so,

1165
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: there are times when you when you're sort of like

1166
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,600
Speaker 1: sit back and go, you know, that is really a

1167
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 1: startlingly good effect, or that is really a startlingly convincing moment,

1168
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: like even what you were saying about Ned talks and

1169
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: the character of Ned on the on the show, we

1170
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: got six people pulling making one performance. And by the way,

1171
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: doesn't Ned's voice sound exactly like Brian? Yes, and yeah,

1172
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: I think it's him. So it's six people impersonating Brian,

1173
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: and it's like and it's a giant alien. Yeah, but

1174
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,520
Speaker 1: it is. It's kind of But when it's so seamless

1175
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: like that, there's a little bit of a magical I

1176
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: was in awe. I mean I was in awe. It

1177
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: was amazing because those little dudes, I forget what you

1178
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: called them, popping up and down the clause, the clause yeah,

1179
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: law and it was all of these crazy talent, Oh,

1180
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: totally psychedelic, these talented people just creating this whole world.

1181
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there improving with with I don't even

1182
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: know what some voice over here, and and I remember

1183
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: leaving thinking that was one of my favorite times doing

1184
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: anything as a performer. Well, you you were particularly fun

1185
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: to work with. I've actually been calling you out as

1186
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: I've been doing publicity and all for the show. I

1187
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: often call out your interview because I I think we

1188
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: had the most funding. It was fun. I am like

1189
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,719
Speaker 1: I did have a moment of like, okay, East Coast,

1190
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking at Kermit your dad like like like I'm

1191
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,679
Speaker 1: thinking like Timothy Leary, like did your dad just drop

1192
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: a ton of acid? Did he at all mushroom? No?

1193
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: And both. And he liked to drink the way the

1194
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: way he drank wine was embarrassing, Like I learned how

1195
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: to drink wine from him, and he would drink like

1196
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: in a big wine glass, like a third of a

1197
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,440
Speaker 1: glass of white wine and then it was a spritzer

1198
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: like the rest of you. Yeah. No. And they were

1199
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: like everybody thought of my mom and dad is they

1200
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: were like hippies. They were like, you guys are the hippies,

1201
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: and they would dress like hippies and every thing. But

1202
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: it was everything except for the drugs they were. They

1203
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 1: were very they were very cling up. And also it's

1204
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,839
Speaker 1: like he didn't he didn't need he didn't need anything

1205
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:16,640
Speaker 1: to help liberate his volcano of imaginary boss. Did your

1206
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: mom have a puppet? Like? Was she was? She was?

1207
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: She voiced? I mean was like your dad was sort

1208
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 1: of Kermit, you know, was mom miss picky? Well? She

1209
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: like we were saying she was very involved before we

1210
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: were born. Yeah, so, but in those days most about

1211
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 1: most of what they did was lip syncing to existing

1212
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: tracks like Louis Prima. They loved to like do puppets

1213
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: lip syncing to Louis Prima and other things. So there

1214
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of voice performance. But yeah, our mom

1215
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 1: was a really good puppeteer and she trained all the puppeteers.

1216
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,520
Speaker 1: So she was a puppeteer, but there weren't famous puppets

1217
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: that she performed for. She was very or no or

1218
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 1: no puppet. That sort of was her personality, you know,

1219
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:09,879
Speaker 1: or nothing like that. So with five kids, how many

1220
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 1: how many cousins? And how many kids do you all

1221
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: have that are all cousins? Yeah? Eight, there's eight we

1222
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 1: all have. We had two kids each except for one

1223
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: of my sisters is single, so there's four. Four siblings

1224
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 1: have two kids each. I think it's fair. And we

1225
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: all and we and we all had our kids a

1226
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: little bit older. I think it's interesting. We all came

1227
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: out of a big family and none of us went, oh,

1228
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: all I want is to have my own big family. Yeah,

1229
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 1: one maybe two kids. Do you guys all get this?

1230
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:50,799
Speaker 1: Do you get to see each other. I mean, forget

1231
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: COVID for a second, but are you guys pretty tight?

1232
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: You get together on holidays and you know or often often, yes,

1233
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: particularly Thanksgiving, but not not this last Yeah. Yeah. Is

1234
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: it usually La New York? Or does everybody go to Colorado?

1235
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 1: We we have It's really interesting. We've been having Florida.

1236
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,839
Speaker 1: We've been having thanksgutting in Florida because my father bought

1237
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: a little cottage in Florida in the days that the

1238
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: Muppets were going into disney World and he was planning

1239
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: to spend a ton of time there in Florida, so

1240
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: he bought a little cottage and we go there at Thanksgiving.

1241
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,560
Speaker 1: So that's been our We got our team. Yeah, we

1242
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: kept the cottage and nobody lives down there, so we

1243
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: all would go. We go most Thanksgivings and then we

1244
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the cool thing is we're all we're because

1245
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: we all own the company together. We also have our

1246
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: business meetings like four times a year where we have

1247
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: to and that's so it's weird. It's kind of holds

1248
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: us together as well. We all get to see each

1249
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 1: other a lot, but this last year it's been all

1250
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: zoom it's all, yeah, do you guys agree or are

1251
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: there a lot of disagreements? Actually, really in terms of

1252
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: the company, do we agree a lot? We agree a lot.

1253
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: And we went through one period of time it was

1254
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 1: like in the early two thousands where we did in

1255
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: quick succession a bunch of business deals that were very complicated.

1256
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: So it was about ten years after my dad died.

1257
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: We sold the company, we bought it back, we sold

1258
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 1: them up It's to Disney, we launched something else, and

1259
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: in that period of time we realized, like, these are

1260
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 1: not the transactions that people do very well in family

1261
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: companies if they don't get along. And everything went really,

1262
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: really smoothly. So you know, even though we have sibling conversations,

1263
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: like there are times when we are just a family

1264
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: and we might disagree about family things, when it comes

1265
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: to business, we were like very in sync and very

1266
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: easy to do business with actually, you know, because we're

1267
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: not like people don't have to kind of psych out

1268
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: like what are the family dynamics if you want to

1269
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: work with a Henson company, like you just don't have

1270
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: to think about that, right do you have where memorabile

1271
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: like up the wazoo? I mean, you know, we were

1272
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: really we do. But we were also really careful to

1273
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: get it into museums because because the things that have

1274
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: been built over the years, they're so beautiful, Like you know,

1275
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,720
Speaker 1: a lot of those puppets are pieces of artwork and

1276
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,519
Speaker 1: the amount of handwork that went into all of them.

1277
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: So you know, the early the puppets from the early

1278
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: years were sought after by museums. Now it is the

1279
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: things we make. They're still really artistic, but it's a

1280
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: little bit harder to figure out where to put them

1281
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: all because they're not all of historical importance. What about

1282
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: what about Kerrmit the first coat the Kermit made out

1283
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 1: of the coat? Is that the Smithsonian? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1284
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 1: our mom got like the very earliest muppets. They're all

1285
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: at the Smithsone. Okay, that was something that our mom

1286
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: did before before we speed around. I got to know

1287
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 1: about Miss Piggy because she was such a staple in

1288
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: my life. Oh she was just so different. It was,

1289
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: yeah story, she was my first crush, like attracted to

1290
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 1: her for some strange reason. I like that sort of gruff,

1291
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, it was that's my kind

1292
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 1: of woman. Frank used to describe her character as she's

1293
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: a truck driver who thinks she's Marilyn Monroe. Hilarious. She

1294
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: came in with a Muppet Show, so she became part

1295
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: of the starring cast of a new show. So she

1296
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: had no history before the Muppet Show. But she wasn't

1297
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: even in the original main cast of The Muppet Show.

1298
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: She wasn't like one of the characters who was drawn

1299
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 1: out and sketched out by the by the writers. When

1300
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 1: you were talking about where did the characters come from,

1301
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: this one came really from Frank Oz as a performer,

1302
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: imbuing a very supporting character like this pig. Puppet was

1303
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: just in the chorus, and in the very early he

1304
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: wasn't even he wasn't even the only he wasn't right,

1305
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: he wasn't the only one who did the character. But

1306
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 1: when he did it, it was so funny. But there

1307
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: was the first thing that happened was there were just

1308
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of pigs created and and then they threw,

1309
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, put a wig on one of them, and

1310
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: and Frank came up with this personality and this character,

1311
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 1: and that was it. But but she came a lot

1312
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: like obviously a lot later, not until I'm up at

1313
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 1: show it is funny that she's the classic course girl.

1314
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: You know, she's the classic story of the chorus girl

1315
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,840
Speaker 1: who came to the front and took the took the

1316
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: solo and then became the lead of the show because

1317
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: she was literally a chorus girl. Pig. Wow, that's really funny.

1318
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,240
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like what are you called Twenty Feet

1319
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: from Stardom the documentary, It's like her and then she

1320
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: and and and then she went for a big makeover.

1321
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: So if you look at her very first, it was

1322
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: really like a pig puppet with a wig on. And

1323
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: but that's really a character that that came out of

1324
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: Frank Oz. That was that really Yeah, what do we

1325
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:58,800
Speaker 1: have to look forward to from your production company in

1326
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 1: these next couple of years? So many things, all sorts

1327
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean, we do what we you know,

1328
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 1: we try to say everything that we do as an

1329
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: element of fantastical invention in it. But but nowadays we

1330
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 1: do we do three D animated animated shows. We do

1331
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: two D animated shows and key ram animation. We do

1332
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,560
Speaker 1: digital puppetry, which is three D animation, but it's all puppeteer.

1333
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: It's all live performed and live shop. We do all

1334
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: of our puppet productions, and then we do science fiction

1335
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: and fantasy and and we we you know, we we

1336
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:37,759
Speaker 1: we do a little bit of everything, do movies, tv shows.

1337
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: Some of it's for a more adult audience, some of

1338
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: it's for specifically for kids. But but honestly, we just try.

1339
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: We just try for real, like creative excellence, being creative,

1340
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 1: it's a celebration of being creative and original is what

1341
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:02,639
Speaker 1: we try to do whenever we're making something. People Also

1342
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 1: a lot of people expect us to kind of revisited

1343
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: the old titles, and we do. You know, we did

1344
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: the Big Dark Crystal series for Netflix. We are now

1345
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: doing a new Fragle Rock series. There's a lot of

1346
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 1: love for fragle Rock out. I was like, that was

1347
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: like art was let the music play making for on

1348
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: nother days. I think down Fragle Rock. It was part

1349
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: of this new thing called HBO, and we remember our

1350
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: dad really loved the idea of HBO because I think

1351
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: up until then the idea that basically what you're doing

1352
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: is you're making TV shows so that there will be

1353
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: people watching television when the commercial break comes, and the

1354
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: reason of existence is to make sure there are eyeballs

1355
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 1: for when the commercial breaks happen. That's what the business

1356
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: and television. What's the four minutes of commercial right every

1357
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: half hour? Right? And so my dad he really loved

1358
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: the idea of h you know that was that was right,

1359
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 1: that people were actually paying money or subscription to be entertained.

1360
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 1: What would your dad think about today technology? All the

1361
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: platforms that are available now Netflix streaming? Would he would?

1362
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: He did, think he'd love it or hate it. I

1363
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 1: mean he kind of loved everything. Yeah, Like he loved

1364
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: innovation and new ways of doing things. I mean, he

1365
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,719
Speaker 1: probably would be more embracive than I probably am because

1366
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I've got to protect puppetry and stuff

1367
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 1: like that. He'd be like, oh, let's do something different.

1368
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know he would. He would love all of it.

1369
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,600
Speaker 1: And he saw like reality TV coming. He knew that

1370
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: cameras were going to become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper,

1371
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,600
Speaker 1: and that before you knew it, that programming was going

1372
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: to be coming from a twenty two year old kid

1373
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 1: and their two best friends you know, in the middle

1374
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:54,719
Speaker 1: of nowhere would be producing you know, huge television shows.

1375
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 1: He kind of saw all that coming and what a

1376
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 1: shame because he would have only been eighty three, like

1377
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: he he could have still been alive and working and

1378
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,639
Speaker 1: would have been and how much would he have done

1379
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: and how much more would he have done if he

1380
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: if he hadn't died, Is it? Yeah? I think it.

1381
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: I feel like he would have gotten incredibly interested in

1382
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: virtual reality as well as anything like immersive and interactive

1383
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: because he was so he was very interested in stereoscopic

1384
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, why are you interested in that?

1385
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 1: Like the green and green and red glasses, But he

1386
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: was really into it and that led to him doing

1387
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 1: a three D movie at Disney. But he was really

1388
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 1: into it because of its potential for being immersive and

1389
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 1: and he was very interested in anything like interactive. So

1390
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: you know that he's everything has developed way, way, way

1391
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 1: beyond what he was thinking of at that point. I

1392
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: think one thing that's such a shame is that, you know,

1393
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 1: when he made Labyrinth, you know, with David Bowie and

1394
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 1: Jennifer Colley, the movie was a terrible flop when I

1395
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,600
Speaker 1: came out, and that was the last big thing that

1396
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: he had finished before he died. And it's such a

1397
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: shame because the film has done substantially better every year

1398
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: than it did the first year it was met. So

1399
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:28,480
Speaker 1: now it's a huge hit and it's a cult classic

1400
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 1: and it's the most important title in our library. And

1401
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 1: I wish he had seen that, because unfortunately when he

1402
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 1: passed away, that was his big commercial failure was Labyrinth,

1403
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 1: which is now nobody believes you. When you say to them, oh,

1404
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 1: you know, it was a huge box office failure, they go, no,

1405
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: it couldn't have been. It couldn't have been. It's a classic.

1406
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 1: It is your dad. I have this little thing here

1407
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: that I love when he wrote a letter before he

1408
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: passed away and he said, please watch out for each

1409
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:02,719
Speaker 1: other and love and forgive everybody. It's a good life.

1410
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:07,440
Speaker 1: Enjoy it Is that like a touchstone for you guys,

1411
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 1: very much. So. Yes, I think he was actually doing

1412
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: his estate planning and instead of just leaving a bunch

1413
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: of documents like we all do, he had the thoughtfulness

1414
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 1: to write a letter and enclose it in the in

1415
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,680
Speaker 1: the documents, and the letters sat there for years and years,

1416
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 1: and you know, it wasn't particularly prescient that he wrote that.

1417
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: I think they were. The letter was sitting there for

1418
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 1: quite a long time along with his estate planning, but

1419
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: it did make me think, what a nice thing to do,

1420
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,799
Speaker 1: and everybody should do that. Everybody should write something persons

1421
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 1: personal to go with those legal documents. Yeah, as a person,

1422
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: he was somebody that always had his little lessons. You know,

1423
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 1: we have like a lot of episcopal ministers in our

1424
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: in that side of the family, and our dad was

1425
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: quite like that. I mean, often we'd sit down for

1426
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: breakfast and he'd have basically a little lesson that he

1427
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: wanted to share that day over breakfast, which I can't

1428
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:12,760
Speaker 1: imagine doing with my kids, not not in that sort

1429
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: of formal way. But but he always had his little things.

1430
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,560
Speaker 1: And oh my god, he loved he loved the cassette

1431
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: playing players that you put in your cars before anybody

1432
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 1: else had when they were the eight tracks, and then

1433
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 1: the cassette players, and and he'd always have the best one,

1434
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: and it would always get stolen in New York and

1435
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 1: so and he just had it was you could see

1436
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 1: it was always so disappointed when we'd get back to

1437
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: the car after dinner and the windows were smashing again

1438
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 1: and the story was gone again, and he'd go, well,

1439
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: I guess obviously they needed it more than than I, wow,

1440
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:55,960
Speaker 1: than I did. Yeah, socially and then we can still Yeah,

1441
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:58,640
Speaker 1: that's the opposite of what I would have done. I

1442
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 1: love your dad right now, All right, guys, let's do

1443
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 1: the speed round some of these. You can also answer

1444
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: your other siblings. If you want one word to describe

1445
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: the other, I'm just gonna say smart. I would say engineer,

1446
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: one word to describe your relationship supportive, cool. Who's the

1447
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:30,679
Speaker 1: most artistic, Oh, Brian, as between us bread, I've done

1448
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:33,600
Speaker 1: more art, but I don't know that I'm more artistic.

1449
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: If your sibling was a muppet, which one would they be?

1450
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 1: Ned as, I said, Well, I don't know. Lisa. See,

1451
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:51,600
Speaker 1: she has to be the smart cool one, sir. You know,

1452
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,720
Speaker 1: would have to have been one of Jerry Nelson's characters

1453
01:25:54,760 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 1: like Floyd or sometimes oh male characters. I'll take it, Lloyd.

1454
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:06,120
Speaker 1: I'll take it something that your sibling is really not

1455
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:12,800
Speaker 1: good at. Well, look at us cooking. Yeah, we're both

1456
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 1: not good at cooking. Who's more competitive? We're both crazy competit.

1457
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 1: Are you equal? Equal? Yeah? We're both crazy competitive. Fact

1458
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 1: that that's part of why we we approach things. And like,

1459
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,679
Speaker 1: Lisa came out of development an executive, and I came

1460
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:32,960
Speaker 1: from the floor, so that we're always a little bit different,

1461
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: so we're never like directly competing with each other. Right,

1462
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,680
Speaker 1: that's good. That was very clever. That's a that's a

1463
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 1: good thing. Who gives the best advice? Me? Oh, that's

1464
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: so interesting. No, actually it is. It is Lisa, because

1465
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 1: I'm terrified of giving people advice. I don't want to

1466
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: give people advice if if you guys disagree, or when

1467
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,719
Speaker 1: you do disagree, is there a topic that you disagree

1468
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 1: on the most? You know, is there something that you

1469
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 1: guys just do not see eye to eye on? This

1470
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 1: one just ought to be at the people of my tongue,

1471
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 1: and I can't think what do we disagree? I don't know.

1472
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: I mean there is something when it comes to actual

1473
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,840
Speaker 1: like movie making, or when I say movie making, I

1474
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 1: mean TV shows or whatever, where I have less respect

1475
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,280
Speaker 1: for the committee than Lisa does. I grew up on

1476
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: the floor. I have more respect for the vision. But

1477
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 1: that's good. I like stru that's a good one. First

1478
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: celebrity crush mine was Debbie Harry. Yeah, that's a good

1479
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: good It almost it was almost Linda Ronstad, but then

1480
01:27:54,800 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 1: it was Debbie Harry. I'm I'm like blanking out, I say,

1481
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 1: but I have a feeling it has to do with

1482
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 1: that first season of Saturday Night Live. We the Muppets

1483
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 1: were on Saturday Night Live, and we got to go

1484
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 1: from the whole the whole first season, we got to

1485
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 1: go and watch Saturay Live. And that was like when

1486
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,760
Speaker 1: I felt like I grew up from being the high

1487
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 1: schooler that I was at public high school in armad,

1488
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: New York, to like a cool person that goes to

1489
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 1: New York City and goes to thirty Rock and watches

1490
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live and comes home and tells people at

1491
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,320
Speaker 1: school that I was there and saw it live. The

1492
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: season one, two and three. Really it was just season one.

1493
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: But you're like, like eleven, I was like eleventh grade

1494
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 1: or tenth or eleventh grade, so it was probably like

1495
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: it was. It was probably like Chevy Chase or something.

1496
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 1: You're like, it's the seventies, you're a teenager. Seventies, you're

1497
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 1: a teenager and you're at thirty Rock watching SNL. Pretty

1498
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:59,439
Speaker 1: cool at season one. I mean, nothing's cooler that's all

1499
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 1: the time. For sure, it was Chevy Chase because cha

1500
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: Chase was hot. That's so that's so interesting, I think.

1501
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: But Lisa, weren't you a big fan of Jack Burns

1502
01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 1: when you were like really little? And then he became

1503
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 1: the head writer on the Muppet Show, So I thought

1504
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:19,639
Speaker 1: you were a big fan, but now that's really little.

1505
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 1: Burns and Driver was a show that was really important

1506
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: in our household, and then Jack Burns ended up being

1507
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: the head writer on the Muppet Show. Yeah, I had

1508
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: a childhood like, we got to meet this guy that

1509
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,120
Speaker 1: had been so important. All right, Seriously, nobody who's listening

1510
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:38,240
Speaker 1: to your podcast knows these people. But I had a

1511
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 1: I did have a childhood crush on tommy'smothers. The I

1512
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 1: like comedians. Yeah, it was Chevy Chase, it was John Belushi,

1513
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: Gilbe Radner, dan Ackroyd. Belus was the first year. No, yeah, yeah,

1514
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 1: he was so cool. I remember because I remember him

1515
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: going around the halls going, oh what oh, here they come,

1516
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:12,720
Speaker 1: the mucking foppits. They didn't actually witness that, did You

1517
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:16,479
Speaker 1: absolutely witnessed that witness that. I thought that was an

1518
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:21,600
Speaker 1: apocryphal story. That's no. Walking down the hall was the

1519
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 1: mocking fops very lovingly. No, no, I heard it in

1520
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,120
Speaker 1: the hall. I mean the poor muppets, you know, they

1521
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 1: were really really a big flop on Sorry, they were

1522
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: really cool that we got to go and see it.

1523
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 1: The Muppets were like the only thing that didn't work

1524
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 1: on Starry Life. So it was this outrageous, huge, huge

1525
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 1: hit and everybody was talking about and it was the

1526
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 1: show of even it's the show of the century practically,

1527
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:52,080
Speaker 1: and the Muppets got fired off a bit for after

1528
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 1: season one. Okay, yeah, but no, but let's let's go.

1529
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 1: And because you were it's kay earlier, we're saying, but

1530
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 1: what really happened was Jim was trying very hard to

1531
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 1: make the Muppet Show and all of the broadcasters in

1532
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 1: America said, Muppets are for little children. That's what Sesame

1533
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,519
Speaker 1: Street has proven. The Muppets are just for little kids.

1534
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 1: And my dad was furious. So he made his first

1535
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 1: pilot of the Muppet Show was Valentine's Special with the

1536
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 1: Valentine's with Mia Farrow. That was going to be with

1537
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 1: your Mom, but it was with Mia Farrow, and he

1538
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 1: made that and it went on air and that was

1539
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,680
Speaker 1: his pilot, and all three networks passed and said no, no, no,

1540
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:36,920
Speaker 1: Puppets are for little kids, and Sesame Street you should

1541
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:40,400
Speaker 1: be sticking with that. He was furious, so the next pilot.

1542
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: He then sold a second pilot for the Muppet Show

1543
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 1: and he called it sex and Violence with the Muppets

1544
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 1: so that people wouldn't say it was just our little kid.

1545
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: And he made that and put it on air, and

1546
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:56,680
Speaker 1: all three networks passed on doing the series, and then

1547
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,799
Speaker 1: he was Then he was so pissed off that everybody

1548
01:31:59,880 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 1: was saying you should just be doing children's shows like

1549
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: Sesame Street. That then he went and did Satura Night

1550
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,840
Speaker 1: a lot because it was there already controversially going to

1551
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: be the most offensive adult TV show ever made of

1552
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 1: its time. So he's like, that's where I'm going to be.

1553
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to prove that I'm not just for little kids.

1554
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 1: And then during that season, one Lou Grad in London,

1555
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,600
Speaker 1: who ran ITV or at a TV studios was it,

1556
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:30,679
Speaker 1: called and said, I've seen your pilot. Bring your Muppets

1557
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,639
Speaker 1: here to England. I will make a serial, we will

1558
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: shoot the whole series and we'll sell it back to America,

1559
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:38,599
Speaker 1: which is exactly what happened. So you're saying he got fired,

1560
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 1: but Lisa as soon as Lou Greig wanted to make

1561
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 1: a Muppet show he was counting the days until he

1562
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 1: could get off at Sesame Street. That was it was,

1563
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 1: I mean, get off of Saturday Night Love, because all

1564
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 1: he really was trying to do is get the Muppet

1565
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 1: Show made. That's yeah, he was creating a ruppet show

1566
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 1: for years and years and years and years. It's really

1567
01:32:57,520 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 1: interesting because people think he had so much just autom

1568
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,519
Speaker 1: matic success, but like how much rejection he had for

1569
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 1: the Muppet Show was incredible. The success of Sesame Street

1570
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 1: was a problem because he was sort of on a

1571
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 1: track that was pointing to the Muppet Show, and then

1572
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 1: Sesame Street was so successful that everybody was like, well,

1573
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: make more preschool education shows. I think it's really important

1574
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,719
Speaker 1: for any creative to hear these kinds of stories because

1575
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm always like, success is like you hear more know

1576
01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:28,560
Speaker 1: than you do. Yes, and and yet you just have

1577
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 1: to keep going to know that the Muppets took so long.

1578
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 1: It's wild, right, it was really hard for it. Okay,

1579
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 1: I have to ask what's your personal favorite Muppet? Ralph

1580
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,599
Speaker 1: the Dog m He's great. I usually say I can't

1581
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 1: answer this, it's all it's it's still good. Good give

1582
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 1: it to them. You've never told anybody your favorite Muppet,

1583
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:58,360
Speaker 1: they were, Yeah, I like her for different reasons, but

1584
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I guess gon So probably it was my fa Gonzo's

1585
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:06,719
Speaker 1: Gonzo is the greatest. Does anybody ever say that Kermit

1586
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 1: is their favorite? I mean it's like I feel like,

1587
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 1: because he's like the number one, nobody says he's the favorite. No, No,

1588
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 1: most people. Most people do say Kermit's their favorite. And

1589
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 1: I often say Kermit's kind of my favorite because he

1590
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:23,760
Speaker 1: was the most like my dad. I mean, Kermit was

1591
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:28,439
Speaker 1: if you know camp Kermit, well you knew my dad. Well. Okay,

1592
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 1: So the very last question that we always ask all

1593
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 1: you asked the question two parter, two part question, first

1594
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 1: part being if you could alleviate something, If you could

1595
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:44,639
Speaker 1: take something from your sibling that will alleviate a stressor

1596
01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 1: in their life or something to make their life a

1597
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 1: little bit better, what would it be? And on the

1598
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:53,320
Speaker 1: flip side of that, if you could take something for yourself,

1599
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: a quality that they possess that you wish that you had,

1600
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:05,759
Speaker 1: what would that be? Huh? Well, I Brian was speaking

1601
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: earlier about feeling pressure and stress of living up to

1602
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 1: the legacy. I'd love to take some of that off

1603
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 1: of him, because I think he's great in his own right,

1604
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: and I would like to take a little of his

1605
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 1: perfectionism onto me because I think as a producer, I

1606
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: need to get things done, and so I'm I'm like, hey,

1607
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,960
Speaker 1: let's just approve seventy five percent of everything we look at,

1608
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, because we just got to get going. So

1609
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,280
Speaker 1: if I could take some of his perfectionism on knee

1610
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: so that our work is better, if I could afford

1611
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:38,920
Speaker 1: to do that, I definitely want to do that. I

1612
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 1: don't know what I would take off of Lisa. I

1613
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:47,519
Speaker 1: don't know. I know of burdens that she has that

1614
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:50,640
Speaker 1: are too personal to talk about, but you can like

1615
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:58,120
Speaker 1: say that for certain burdens, I want to take them

1616
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 1: away you didn't have to have that are not of

1617
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: her making. And then if I could be able to multitask,

1618
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:11,440
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm incapable of multitasking. For me, multitasking

1619
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 1: means I do one thing for an hour, then something

1620
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 1: else for an hour. I can't even I can't even

1621
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 1: like do two three emails at the same time. It's

1622
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 1: like I have to stay with that email until I'm

1623
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,639
Speaker 1: done with it, and then I do the next time

1624
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:26,600
Speaker 1: lest it says, well, I can manage eight shows. It's like,

1625
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I can like, I

1626
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 1: can delegate seven. That was excellent. Thank you guys, so much,

1627
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 1: so much fun talking to you. It's our dinner party.

1628
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:48,360
Speaker 1: It's been really, really fun and lovely talking to sibling.

1629
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:51,719
Speaker 1: Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson.

1630
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 1: Producer is Alison, President, editor is Josh Wendish. Music by

1631
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:59,599
Speaker 1: Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show

1632
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: us some rate the show and leave us a review.

1633
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 1: This show is powered by simplecast mmm