Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
Speaker 1: We are not in La today. We are over here
Speaker 1: at eighty five South Studios with the special guests of
Speaker 1: the day. Van Lengthen is in the building. You guys
Speaker 1: may know him as podcaster, Academy Award winning executive producer.
Speaker 1: You know, but I like to acknowledge you as the
Speaker 1: man that stood up to Kanye West in the TMZ
Speaker 1: office commissioner of the Commissioner. And we're gonna leave the
Speaker 1: commission of the BBI off. But Van, before we get
Speaker 1: into where you're at today, I want you to take
Speaker 1: me back to where you were when you were broke.
Speaker 1: What dish you're gonna have.
Speaker 2: Cook for us to eat today, so you can start
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: So I get out of college around I would say
Speaker 3: two thousand and three. Two thousand and three. I get
Speaker 3: out of college, and there's this like transitional period in
Speaker 3: my life because I was always interested in people's stories,
Speaker 3: and everybody's story seems so linear. Every story seems linear
Speaker 3: when you're at the end of it. Everybody has a
Speaker 3: moment that something happened for them. Everybody has a moment
Speaker 3: that they realize something. But when you're in the middle
Speaker 3: of it. You don't know you'll know when it's gonna
Speaker 3: happen for you, you don't know how it's going to happen
Speaker 3: for you. Certain people have more certainty than other people do,
Speaker 3: but all you can do is work and try. And
Speaker 3: I get to this point, and it's this weird, odd
Speaker 3: point where I'm like, nothing that I thought was going
Speaker 3: to happen and or no way that I wanted to
Speaker 3: go is the way that I wanted to go.
Speaker 1: So you're graduated, we're taking back to when you graduated, right, And.
Speaker 3: So I'm working at best Buy And this is the
Speaker 3: same time that The College Dropout has come out. Around
Speaker 3: that same time, Conye's first album, and what he's talking
Speaker 3: about great album. He's talking about disillusioned high school graduates
Speaker 3: who now have to realize that they're not going to
Speaker 3: conquer the world, that what they're going to do is
Speaker 3: enter into the American workforce and they're going to be
Speaker 3: a part of something, and everything that they did it's
Speaker 3: not just not as meaningful as they thought it was
Speaker 3: going to be. In a way, it's spiritually debilitating. And
Speaker 3: the song is the whole album is about breaking free
Speaker 3: of that. Really it's about saying, hey, like I dropped out,
Speaker 3: but I dropped out. I took a path that is,
Speaker 3: let's admire but in a way drowned upon in order
Speaker 3: to be more alive. Like I'm not killing myself, and
Speaker 3: so I'm to the point to where I'm like having
Speaker 3: an exisential crisis. I'm like, yo, I'm killing myself. It's
Speaker 3: not it's not working. And so many things happen within
Speaker 3: this two year period. My parents divorced. My mom leaves
Speaker 3: the house, and that was very transformative for me, because,
Speaker 3: like when a woman leaves a home right away, everything
Speaker 3: gets less.
Speaker 1: What you were you were talking about after college though?
Speaker 1: Were you living at home with your parents?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 1: Oh you were during college?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I went to Southern University in bat Ruge. Had
Speaker 3: gone away to school and then I came back and
Speaker 3: I went to Southern University because I wanted to be
Speaker 3: around all of my friends. So I was still living
Speaker 3: in home. The school was about ten minutes away from
Speaker 3: where we lived.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how old were you when your parents were.
Speaker 3: Like two or twenty three?
Speaker 1: And so you actually got to see it.
Speaker 3: I got to see it, right, I got to see it.
Speaker 3: There's two people divorcing and not mommy and daddy divorcing.
Speaker 3: And I also got to see.
Speaker 1: Just what do you mean they're not mommy and daddy divorcing.
Speaker 3: It wasn't mommy and daddy divorcing when you're ten and
Speaker 3: your parents break up, you're thirteen, fourteen, mommy and daddy
Speaker 3: are divorcing. In my life, Crystal and Terry got a
Speaker 3: divorce because I had enough of a frame of mind
Speaker 3: or a frame of reference, should I say, for these
Speaker 3: people to know who they kind of really were at
Speaker 3: that point. So I knew the anger that my father had,
Speaker 3: I knew the paranoia that my mother had. I knew
Speaker 3: that these were two people that were on diverging spiritual
Speaker 3: growth the journey, should I say, and that they were
Speaker 3: no longer compatible, and like what that means, Like when
Speaker 3: you're a kid, it's like, oh, you guys are gonna
Speaker 3: get split up. Okay, who am I going to live with?
Speaker 3: It's not the concern for me. The concern for me
Speaker 3: is do these people still get to live the version
Speaker 3: of their life that they want to live now that
Speaker 3: they're no longer together? And so when I saw that,
Speaker 3: you know, my mom, I was actually happy for them
Speaker 3: that they had made the decision. I was happy for
Speaker 3: them that my mother, I thought, Okay, this is a
Speaker 3: new life for her. She had felt beaten down by
Speaker 3: a lot of things emotionally, she had felt unsupported by
Speaker 3: a lot of things emotionally, and obviously, with my father
Speaker 3: doing some of the things that he was doing, he
Speaker 3: must have been unhappy too. So maybe this is a
Speaker 3: new life for them. I'm young enough to think at
Speaker 3: that point that severing that type of relationship in some
Speaker 3: way could be a positive for those two people as
Speaker 3: much as they loved each other, and loved each other
Speaker 3: until my father passed away. But immediately she left the
Speaker 3: house and it was two niggas living in the house
Speaker 3: that didn't know how to do shit, Like the house
Speaker 3: just became It's like, it's just like, I.
Speaker 1: Remember, were you young, the youngest two or something? Who
Speaker 1: are you the youngest in your family? Because you said
Speaker 1: it was just the two, Yeah I was.
Speaker 3: I was the youngest in the family. I was the
Speaker 3: only one still around. My sister had gone. My dad
Speaker 3: had other kids, but they were gone. But like, so
Speaker 3: it's just me and him.
Speaker 1: Your dad had other kids, Yeah, what do you mean
Speaker 1: he had other kids?
Speaker 3: A nigga. You know what I mean A lot? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's what I'm saying. So it was, it was that's
Speaker 3: another reason why you're happy for her to go and
Speaker 3: have a chance at a life that is for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, And so you.
Speaker 3: Know, me and him are there and it's like she
Speaker 3: she's your mom, but she's also like a genius in creating.
Speaker 3: She's a genius in keeping things running. She you get
Speaker 3: taught this lesson of misogyny, and the lesson is that
Speaker 3: somebody leaves the house and they gonna make a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of money. And my mother worked too and made
Speaker 3: a lot of money. But somebody leaves the house and
Speaker 3: gona makes a lot of money, and then they come
Speaker 3: back into a castle and everything that they touch inside
Speaker 3: the house turns to go. But you don't realize that
Speaker 3: there's somebody who's keeping your life beautiful. There's someone who's
Speaker 3: who's attention to detail, somebody whose ability to multitask, somebody
Speaker 3: who who looks out for things. Somebody who when something's
Speaker 3: broke they go, Okay, you gotta fix that. Somebody who
Speaker 3: when something doesn't work, they okay, we gotta get it working.
Speaker 3: And the moment that she left. It was the house
Speaker 3: crumbled and fell apart, like the turn on the stove, pop,
Speaker 3: pop the ille pop. And I look at him and
Speaker 3: he looks at me, and I'm like, right, she gets
Speaker 3: that fixed. That motherfucker popped till we got out of
Speaker 3: the house. Him never fixed it, right. The washing machine broke,
Speaker 3: never got fixed, you know what I mean. It's just
Speaker 3: just like little stuff like that. Like my mother used
Speaker 3: to come out. This was a big, beautiful home on
Speaker 3: about sixty acres that we had had. She would come
Speaker 3: out and she would spray paint like like power washed
Speaker 3: the outside of the house. A where everything like just
Speaker 3: me and him were just too focused on the individual
Speaker 3: things that we were doing to care about all of that.
Speaker 3: The place was just less beautiful because the woman of
Speaker 3: the house had gone wow. And so during that whole time,
Speaker 3: I'm also broke. I'm also broke. I'm I'm I'm working
Speaker 3: at best Buy. I'm like, I'm treading water. I don't
Speaker 3: know what I want to do. And then Hurricane Katrina comes.
Speaker 3: And so when Hurricane Katrina comes, this is like a
Speaker 3: weird two year period of my life, Like everything changes,
Speaker 3: like society crumbles, everybody strapped for cash because you've taken
Speaker 3: on so much more. You got relatives living with you
Speaker 3: that come down from down in the city. Everything's different
Speaker 3: and now everyone's trying to stretch that dollar. You're eating different,
Speaker 3: you're feeling different, and it just doesn't feel like there's
Speaker 3: any abundance. It didn't feel like that in my life.
Speaker 3: And so that's when that was the most. That was
Speaker 3: the point, honestly, from two thousand and three to two
Speaker 3: thousand and five, that was the point where I figured
Speaker 3: out myself. I moved to LA in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3: By the time I got to LA, I could fucking
Speaker 3: handle anything. I could handle anything. I had buried homeboys,
Speaker 3: I had put relaty in the ground. There was nothing
Speaker 3: the world had showed me like some really ill shit.
Speaker 3: And so when I got out there and was dealing
Speaker 3: with LA, it was a piece of cake.
Speaker 1: So you also navigated, So what this are you gonna
Speaker 1: have us eat today? Real cheese, grilled cheese. It's the
Speaker 1: staple and the most simplastic and delicious meal. Did you
Speaker 1: have to add any tomato, soup or anything? Or you
Speaker 1: just didn't the legendary.
Speaker 3: Fuck all that butter bread cheese shout out to my
Speaker 3: uncle David resting piece. Shout out to my uncle Mark,
Speaker 3: rest in peace. These guys taught me the beauty the
Speaker 3: grilled cheese. And you know where they learned it at?
Speaker 1: Where?
Speaker 3: So you think, Nah, where you think they learned the
Speaker 3: grilled cheese at these two uncles? What do you think?
Speaker 1: Someone screamoda jail, jail.
Speaker 3: I could tell what y'a you've been. I can tell
Speaker 3: what kind of life you'd have been living. They they
Speaker 3: they learned the grilled cheese in jail. They were grilled
Speaker 3: cheese mechanics.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: They came back in here and they was like, I
Speaker 3: don't know it was jail because they because because what
Speaker 3: because yeah? Because because we know right there was grilled
Speaker 3: cheese mechanics.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's see, let's judge your grilled cheese.
Speaker 3: I haven't made it in a long time because the
Speaker 3: nigga is not broke no more.
Speaker 1: You know what I've been doing this show for. This
Speaker 1: will be our this is our third season. We're taping
Speaker 1: right now. And some of the dishes are so good
Speaker 1: on this show that I go home and I'll make
Speaker 1: it broken, not broke, make it They're good.
Speaker 3: Butter is a very it's very sensual. Look at butter.
Speaker 3: Wash this wash thiss, just wash this. Oh daddy, you
Speaker 3: hear that. Look at the butter go Oh my god,
Speaker 3: butter is like delectable.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, I used butter on my cooking.
Speaker 3: Really, what's that? What's that? What's that? Blood pressure? Like?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm really healthy. We're really healthy.
Speaker 3: Like what you get a church, Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you could do a good grilled cheese. I'm watching
Speaker 1: the way you're making this girl.
Speaker 3: It's not gonna be good.
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. I'm concerned because I feel like you are
Speaker 1: gonna butcher this grilled cheese.
Speaker 3: It's it's not gonna be good. I can already tell
Speaker 3: you it's not gonna be good. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, because these jail birds, they definitely jail
Speaker 1: the right way. How much cheese is gonna put on
Speaker 1: this grilled cheese?
Speaker 3: A lot?
Speaker 1: This is how you did it, broke. Yeah, man, you
Speaker 1: put three pieces of cheese on your broke grilled cheese.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this, but like I'm
Speaker 3: a big ass nigga.
Speaker 1: Yeah nah, bro, you're being judged and right now this
Speaker 1: grilled cheese is looking like it's not cool. We're gonna see.
Speaker 3: We'll see well, I mean, we'll see what happens. Cash.
Speaker 3: Your question, is this show to judge people to get inspired?
Speaker 1: You know what? The first the first season and a half,
Speaker 1: I was very nice with people's feelings, and then I
Speaker 1: had someone make tunic castro.
Speaker 3: Motherfucker.
Speaker 1: It was terrible. Well, we tape in LA. Usually like
Speaker 1: eighty five did this whole thing for us. Shout outs
Speaker 1: to eighty five. They did the whole cook top and
Speaker 1: whole build this whole kitchen. I'm in love with it.
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna have to come to Atlanta more. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I like it. It's cool. I haven't seen much out
Speaker 1: here yet.
Speaker 3: Where do you travel to? Where do you go?
Speaker 1: What do you mean? Where do I go?
Speaker 3: And where do you be at?
Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be at LA, New.
Speaker 3: York, LA New York is Okay New York, Okay, La,
Speaker 3: New York.
Speaker 1: I'm from there. You know. Let's focus on y'all story
Speaker 1: for sure. Okay. So you graduate, you moved to LA
Speaker 1: and you graduate with what degree?
Speaker 3: I have a political science and English degree?
Speaker 1: Okay? And your goal in life before you left.
Speaker 3: College was to be an attorney.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then you got to La to.
Speaker 3: Be uh in the movie game?
Speaker 1: Okay? What happened in between those times to make you
Speaker 1: change your career?
Speaker 3: I spoke to a lot of attorneys.
Speaker 1: You found out they don't like their jobs.
Speaker 3: What I found out. So, my brother Jabriel is one
Speaker 3: of the most brilliant people I've ever known. Super brilliant,
Speaker 3: like ridiculously smart, right smart in a way that's almost inaccessible.
Speaker 3: And he went to Morehouse here in Atlanta, and then
Speaker 3: he went to Stanford, one of the greatest law schools
Speaker 3: in the world. And he didn't have a specific love
Speaker 3: for the law, if you ask me, but he is
Speaker 3: just an incredibly successful person. And it didn't seem like
Speaker 3: to me like that was going to be a fulfilling life.
Speaker 3: What I like to do is commiserate, talk, create. Obviously
Speaker 3: I like to go back and forth on all of
Speaker 3: that stuff, But more than anything, I want to create
Speaker 3: things that made people think and discuss. And I don't
Speaker 3: think that that was going to be something that was
Speaker 3: possible as an attorney.
Speaker 1: Okay. Now a little backstory, So did all your siblings
Speaker 1: graduate college? No, okay, or any any of them, similar
Speaker 1: to yours shows, similar to your path.
Speaker 3: My sister's a poet. Okay, she's one of the greatest
Speaker 3: poets in the.
Speaker 1: World, really, I think. So she made money on it.
Speaker 3: She made no money on it, but she is ridiculously talented.
Speaker 3: And I'm inspired by her every single day because she
Speaker 3: creates no matter what the circumstance is, and that, to me,
Speaker 3: is more impressive than somebody who gets flown all over
Speaker 3: the world to create. She creates because she must create,
Speaker 3: and not because it's incredibly lucrative for her to create.
Speaker 3: So it's in her. It's in her, and that makes
Speaker 3: me feel good.
Speaker 1: So you get to LA, what's the next step.
Speaker 3: I work for a place called Capricorn Programs for a while.
Speaker 1: What do you do there?
Speaker 3: I produce a show called Cybernet. It's a video game show.
Speaker 3: So when I first get out to LA, I am
Speaker 3: playing video games for a living and then reporting on
Speaker 3: those video games on this show, Cybernet, and writing for
Speaker 3: the show. Okay, and then then something happens. What happens
Speaker 3: that company goes belly up financial crisis. So when that
Speaker 3: company goes belly up, guess what I get to do?
Speaker 1: Live on unemployment? Hell yeah, I love unemployment.
Speaker 3: Yep. And I become one of the world's foremost pick
Speaker 3: up basketball players. Every gym in La you see me,
Speaker 3: twenty four hour fitness, you see me.
Speaker 1: Oh you didn't try to hustle on top of the unemployment.
Speaker 3: I definitely did. But the most thing that I did
Speaker 3: was just play ball and vibe and right. I wrote
Speaker 3: so much. I wrote so much, so much stuff.
Speaker 1: But how long were you on unemployment? A year?
Speaker 3: Two?
Speaker 1: You can be on unemployment two years.
Speaker 3: You have to remember that at this time it was
Speaker 3: the financial crisis, so they were extending benefits to meet
Speaker 3: people's the years. It's two eighty and then it's like
Speaker 3: going into twenty ten basics, and let me tell you
Speaker 3: what happens. There's a true story. So I'm on unemployment,
Speaker 3: I'm doing my thing. I'm walking into the gym LA Fitness, Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Everybody there knows me. I'm walking into the gym. I'm
Speaker 3: walking into the gym. And as I'm walking into the gym,
Speaker 3: a lady outside the gym says, hey, you want to
Speaker 3: take place in the c you want to take part
Speaker 3: in the survey. Like yeah, sure, no problem. She's like,
Speaker 3: take part in the survey, and we like what you say,
Speaker 3: will give you five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Oh shit.
Speaker 3: And I was like, hell yeah, okay, so I do
Speaker 3: the whole thing. I do my whole little stick. I'm
Speaker 3: on a little small camera that she has, and she goes,
Speaker 3: we like you, we want you to come out to
Speaker 3: this place, do even more stuff right and take place
Speaker 3: in this gigantic, bigger survey. Well, it's not a big deal.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have you try out these products. And when
Speaker 3: you try these products, we're just gonna ask you what
Speaker 3: you think about them. I'm like, cool, the problem, all right?
Speaker 3: So I decide to go to this thing. We cheese
Speaker 3: it up right now.
Speaker 1: It actually looks really good. Impressed.
Speaker 3: And so I go to this thing into Van Eys,
Speaker 3: you know where van So I go in there and
Speaker 3: I'm into the little deal or whatever, and a guy goes, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is what you're gonna do. I want you to
Speaker 3: go in here, take a shower and use this shampoo.
Speaker 3: They're doing product testing. Take a shower, use this shampoo.
Speaker 3: Right when you get out of there, brush your tea,
Speaker 3: use this toothbrush in this toothpaste. Cool. It's like, don't
Speaker 3: do this don't do that stuff. We took those products
Speaker 3: off the list. And then when you come in here,
Speaker 3: we want you to shave with this razor. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm not shaving my beer. He goes, yeah, well you
Speaker 3: can just shave at the top and on the and
Speaker 3: right here. Just tell us what you think about it.
Speaker 3: I'm like, cool, no problem. So after that, cool, I
Speaker 3: do all this stuff. I get into this little room
Speaker 3: and inside of this room is two other guys in
Speaker 3: the room and they got towels on and I'm looking around.
Speaker 3: I'm like, yo, what's going on here? What is this?
Speaker 3: I try to weigh myself on the scale. Scale doesn't work.
Speaker 3: I'm looking in the room. The room looks like a gym,
Speaker 3: except I know that we're not in a gym. Like,
Speaker 3: what's going on? So I start using the uh, the
Speaker 3: the razor, doing like this. And when I start using
Speaker 3: the razor, somebody jumps out with a camera and they say, hey,
Speaker 3: are you ready for the Gilet Fusion pro Glide Challenge.
Speaker 3: It's a commercial. Oh my gosh, And I'm like, oh shit.
Speaker 3: And so I'm using the thing. I'm doing the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I'm going back and forth to God I'm having fun.
Speaker 3: After the thing is over, I walk in there and
Speaker 3: everybody's clapping.
Speaker 1: Like, hey, why how are you doing?
Speaker 3: You did a great job. You're in a commercial boom
Speaker 3: and boom, So don't make five hundred dollars. I make
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Yet the freaking out so high because.
Speaker 3: It's a uh, we're done, baby special.
Speaker 1: That's a really good looking grilled cheese. Look at that.
Speaker 1: The cheese is bubbling, guys.
Speaker 3: It's bubbling over and it's a little buttered in.
Speaker 1: I just learned a trick and making grilled cheese. What
Speaker 1: is it to stack a lot of cheese in the middle.
Speaker 3: I mean, cheese is actually a pretty staple ingredient to the.
Speaker 1: Grilled cheese, I know, but I usually just put like
Speaker 1: one or two. Yours is like, first of all, you
Speaker 1: did it really impressed me.
Speaker 3: I tell you, I tell you, I tell you why
Speaker 3: though that's why you're healthy, though you said you were
Speaker 3: healthy before.
Speaker 1: Look at the like the even colored color. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's you did it really impressive grilled cheese?
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, just low and slow. Okay. So look, so
Speaker 3: I'm there and they're like, okay, so it's Saturday. So
Speaker 3: the five hundred bucks that you were promised, you get
Speaker 3: that it's Saturday, so you get double the session fee
Speaker 3: on that, plus like whatever you get like a holding
Speaker 3: fee and all of that stuff. So I ended up
Speaker 3: making like three thousand dollars for this commercial. Let me
Speaker 3: tell you what kind of American I am. I come
Speaker 3: home and I'm doing my unemployment and it asked if
Speaker 3: you made any money? Yep, Why I put the money
Speaker 3: on there?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've seen niggas get the death penalty
Speaker 3: for less, So so I put so, I put the
Speaker 3: money on there. I put the money on there, and
Speaker 3: this is what happens. They then readjust my unemployment quarterly.
Speaker 1: Like me, Yeah, I would have told you not to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: So quarterly. So it goes from being I go from
Speaker 3: getting five hundred dollars a week in unemployment to seventy
Speaker 3: five dollars a week in unemployment. So I go, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is the deal. It's not. Obviously they don't think
Speaker 3: a nigga can live off this. So I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: go up to the unemployment office. I'm gonna talk to
Speaker 3: these people. That's why I'm a deal. I'm gona go
Speaker 3: up to the uneployment for somena talk to these people.
Speaker 3: I'm straighten this whole thing out. So I go up
Speaker 3: there to the unemployment office in Pasadena. I'll never forget.
Speaker 3: The lady was like, baby, ain't nothing we can do.
Speaker 3: It's in the computer. I was like, uh, I can't
Speaker 3: live on this blah blah blah in the computer. So
Speaker 3: I needed a job. I had to have a job.
Speaker 3: But you know what, the funny thing was, the ge
Speaker 3: let that commercial ended up like making me that commercial
Speaker 3: ran Oh shit, I didn't know anything. I didn't know
Speaker 3: anything about being a commercial actor. So I would get
Speaker 3: a holding check every now and again. And then I
Speaker 3: started making money off the commercial. But that's later. I
Speaker 3: didn't notice. I came home, and when I came home,
Speaker 3: I was like, I have to find a job. I
Speaker 3: pulled up entertainment careers dot net. The first job was
Speaker 3: TMS tour Guide. You were a tour guide, yep, it
Speaker 3: was being a tour guy. TMS was starting a tour
Speaker 3: and the tour was like you go around to different
Speaker 3: places and you show people different things that happened like
Speaker 3: on TMZ, Like we would show you where Josh Hartnett
Speaker 3: got diarrhea. We would show you where Michael Richards fucked
Speaker 3: up at the laugh Factory. It's actually a pretty good tour.
Speaker 3: I'm actually I was one of the first GUIDs on
Speaker 3: the tour. I was the first guid on the tour.
Speaker 3: So actually a little bit of pride in the fact
Speaker 3: that we were able to jump that off and make
Speaker 3: it a thing, because it's still going right now. So
Speaker 3: I get in there and I do that. I apply.
Speaker 1: That's a brilliant concept now that I think about it.
Speaker 3: The revolutionize the whole game. So I apply, and they're
Speaker 3: doing the tours like American Idol. They have all of
Speaker 3: these tour guys in there, and then every week they
Speaker 3: cut a guy. So I'm in there and like they
Speaker 3: have me coming in there and whatever. I get the
Speaker 3: whole thing. I start with the TMZ tour. This goes
Speaker 3: through to about everything I'm talking about. I start with
Speaker 3: the TMS tour. I think April of twenty ten, maybe
Speaker 3: it might have been twenty eleven, whatever it is. I
Speaker 3: started with the TMZ Tour. Then by July, I started
Speaker 3: in March. By July, I'm on TV every day.
Speaker 1: Within a couple of months, Harvey.
Speaker 3: Came in took the tour. I was up there doing
Speaker 3: my thing, and I told a joke and he liked
Speaker 3: the joke so much that he brought me in and
Speaker 3: put me into the into the newsroom, into the newsroom.
Speaker 1: Yep, okay. So then you get this newsroom opportunity, your
Speaker 1: pay goes up, benefits. What are we looking at?
Speaker 3: So this is the way it was working. I was
Speaker 3: making money because I was getting tips on the tour.
Speaker 3: So I was probably making fifteen hundred dollars a week
Speaker 3: straight cash off the tips on the tour. I was
Speaker 3: killing these motherfucking white people. I was killing them. I was.
Speaker 3: I was fucking killing them. And then you would you
Speaker 3: would come in and you would have like people from
Speaker 3: there was tourists like they were from our earlier they
Speaker 3: were from Canada. There was a thing that we do
Speaker 3: on the tour to where if you see a celebrity
Speaker 3: on the tour, you stop the bus, you get off,
Speaker 3: you shoot the celebrity. And when you're driving around in
Speaker 3: La at certain times, if you know where to go,
Speaker 3: it's impossible not to see famous people. Like if you
Speaker 3: were coming to LA and you and you were hanging
Speaker 3: out with me, and I was like, hey, you want
Speaker 3: to sit around and watch celebrities all day? There are
Speaker 3: three or four places I could tell you where it's
Speaker 3: going to happen, and so we would see them, and
Speaker 3: I'm a good spotter. I would spot celebrities and we
Speaker 3: would see them and the people would go creit. We
Speaker 3: all kinds of people. Fucking Lady God got Leonardo DiCaprio,
Speaker 3: David Beckham and just the other niggas that be around,
Speaker 3: just niggas that be around us. You would just say,
Speaker 3: you know the people I'm talking about in La, they
Speaker 3: just they'd be around. You see them all the time, Like, hey,
Speaker 3: weren't you in Yeah, like you see them. The funniest
Speaker 3: thing was b T Wars weekend, right because there would
Speaker 3: be all kinds of celebrities that I would recognize that
Speaker 3: the bus wouldn't know who they were, and so the
Speaker 3: bus wouldn't believe me that these people were famous. I'm like, yo,
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this mother fort two
Speaker 3: number ones. I ain't never heard of him before. I
Speaker 3: don't know he signed to Luducris and them. He's that's like,
Speaker 3: actually I don't want to say the guy's name, but
Speaker 3: like that's actually that guy is a huge singer. Like
Speaker 3: you guys should probably care about him. Wait, don't know,
Speaker 3: fuck them, keep going No, but I mean so anyway,
Speaker 3: so you know, I'm making good money because I'm making
Speaker 3: my tips off the tour. I'm doing three different jobs
Speaker 3: for TMC. I'm also on the camera with my on
Speaker 3: the street with my camera. I'm on the street with
Speaker 3: my camera. I'm doing the tour.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're doing the tour and the newsroom and all
Speaker 1: this on the tour.
Speaker 3: And the newsroom. They gave me as mean jobs as
Speaker 3: they could.
Speaker 1: And did you join as they were like a startup
Speaker 1: or were they startup level?
Speaker 3: So they were. This was two thousand and so they
Speaker 3: started in like two thousand and five. I got there
Speaker 3: five years later.
Speaker 1: That's considered still startup.
Speaker 3: Probably, so they were. They were the newsroom cast was established,
Speaker 3: so I had to break in. I give I always
Speaker 3: give Harvey credit for this. He uh the same joke,
Speaker 3: because it's very hard to break into that room because
Speaker 3: when you're in the room and you're everybody's fighting for airtime,
Speaker 3: the camera's always on Harvey. But as far as you
Speaker 3: you got to say something, you got to do something
Speaker 3: to stand out. So you get you start to maximize
Speaker 3: the moments that you have, and if you're on that
Speaker 3: means somebody else isn't. So once it's ten motherfucker's in there,
Speaker 3: they're not looking for the eleventh motherfucker to come in.
Speaker 3: But Harvey knew that I had that joke that I
Speaker 3: could tell on the I want to hear the joke.
Speaker 3: It kind of doesn't work without us being on the tour,
Speaker 3: but so we so we passed by the Hustler store
Speaker 3: on the tour, and so it would stop on the
Speaker 3: Hustler tour and this was a different time to tell
Speaker 3: this joke. Okay, So so we would stop and I
Speaker 3: would have the bus stop right by the Hustle store,
Speaker 3: and you know, Larry Flynn is right Larry Flint started Hustler,
Speaker 3: and I'd be like, this guy's hustle store. Larry Flint
Speaker 3: started Hustler. And I don't know if you guys know this,
Speaker 3: but Larry Flint is one of the most important men
Speaker 3: in the history of civil rights. And they're like, what
Speaker 3: are you talking about? And I was like, well, you
Speaker 3: guys might not know this, but Larry Flynn is in
Speaker 3: a wheelchair. He was shot One of the reasons why
Speaker 3: Larry Flint was shot was because there were people that
Speaker 3: were upset that he was doing interracial photo spreads in Hustler.
Speaker 3: It's very true, and the bust will go, oh, I
Speaker 3: didn't know that, and I will go like, yeah, so
Speaker 3: Larry Flint, it's very important to a right leader because
Speaker 3: he took a bullet so that I could fuck white women.
Speaker 3: That's a really good that's good, right. And so I
Speaker 3: remember Harvey, Oh my god, and so I go and
Speaker 3: so they don't want to laugh, they don't want to
Speaker 3: laugh funny. But I'm in the room and I say
Speaker 3: that everybody, and it's so far out of left field,
Speaker 3: and they've never heard the sound of my voice before.
Speaker 3: I remember shout out to Nina Parker, who worked at
Speaker 3: TMZ with me, who's still a dear friend of mine
Speaker 3: to this day. Beautiful black woman. Nina was looking at
Speaker 3: me like, I know, they didn't just bring one of
Speaker 3: these niggas into the newsroom where these goddamn Tiger Woods is.
Speaker 3: But that joke put me over in the newsroom, and
Speaker 3: so and he knew that it would. And so after
Speaker 3: that boom, they all left. Another thing I tell the
Speaker 3: kids I don't want to be hyper verbose about the
Speaker 3: whole TMZ situation. But another thing I tell the kids
Speaker 3: is your ability to succeed at a place is not
Speaker 3: just about your talent, It's about your ability to recognize opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the very first year I was there, I realized
Speaker 3: that everybody goes home for Christmas, so everybody takes off
Speaker 3: for Christmas. So if you watched the show, it's always
Speaker 3: a buzzy newsroom. Everybody is around, everybody's doing all of this,
Speaker 3: but it's bare bones in there, like any point after
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving to the New Year, because everybody's rotating in and
Speaker 3: off vacation, but they're still doing the show. They still
Speaker 3: have to do a show. They don't go dark for
Speaker 3: two weeks like everybody else is a daily show. I
Speaker 3: did not go home. I stuck around, And when I
Speaker 3: stuck around, I got all of the time to talk
Speaker 3: and be on camera that I wanted to. So in
Speaker 3: that month, I endeared myself to the audience.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 3: Right after that, he comes in, he goes, we're gonna
Speaker 3: give you a raise, We're gonna do all of this
Speaker 3: next time contract with up and I just my stature
Speaker 3: at TMZ just went up to the point to where
Speaker 3: I think maybe a year two years after that, I
Speaker 3: was a producer.
Speaker 1: So let's take let's let's fast forward to the the
Speaker 1: iconic moments the Kanye West him. I love Kanye, I
Speaker 1: love old Kanye.
Speaker 3: Now you like him? Now I can tell yeah.
Speaker 1: You know what, it's so funny. So my favorite rapper
Speaker 1: is jay Z, and my little brother's favorite rapper is Kanye.
Speaker 1: But now Eagle acknowledges that jay Z's the ultimate goat.
Speaker 1: So you know, we have a great, great relationship. But Kanye,
Speaker 1: let me try this girl, cheese.
Speaker 3: Go for it. Bless you as straight from Angola State
Speaker 3: Panitentiary right there.
Speaker 1: Let's see. But Kanye, old Kanye was simply amazing to me.
Speaker 1: I loved how outspoken he was. I don't know what
Speaker 1: happened in the Kardashian era, like what kind of drugs
Speaker 1: they put him on or what went wrong because he
Speaker 1: was always pro from the bush statement like he was
Speaker 1: always that guy. So take us to that day, what's
Speaker 1: going on like from beginning to end?
Speaker 3: So Harvey had gone to that that butter gonna burn.
Speaker 3: So Harvey had gone to you know, the week before then,
Speaker 3: Kanye had an album going out, and this is after
Speaker 3: the Trump stuff and he had, you know, gone off
Speaker 3: at his at his show and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: Harvey had gone out to Calabasas and he was so
Speaker 3: giddy called me up to his office and he goes,
Speaker 3: look what it is. It's me hanging out with Kanye West.
Speaker 3: So I'm like whatever, you were like whatever? Yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: like at this point, I don't give a fuck about that.
Speaker 3: I hate that type of shit though, I'll tell you
Speaker 3: what I hate. Don't talk to me about who you
Speaker 3: was hanging out with ever. Okay, Like, if you go
Speaker 3: to a party, when you come back and talk to
Speaker 3: me about the party, talk to me about how the
Speaker 3: vibes were, where the drinks good, was the music good?
Speaker 1: So if jay Z was in the room, you want
Speaker 1: to hear about the drinks.
Speaker 3: I don't give off. I don't give off fuck. If
Speaker 3: jay Z came to your party, I couldn't give a fuck.
Speaker 3: What do that? So it's a good party, that's the
Speaker 3: only thing you be here for a whole So it's
Speaker 3: a good party because he was there. Shout out to
Speaker 3: him like it's a good party because he was there.
Speaker 3: I don't give welcome thank you. I don't care at all. Like,
Speaker 3: hey man, the drinks was good man, DJ was crazy.
Speaker 3: He played that old school juve andle all of that ship.
Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna come to the party. If you start
Speaker 3: to my party, If Jay show up to your party,
Speaker 3: it's a I guess it's a big deal for your party.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it doesn't make
Speaker 3: me want to attend your party because there are famous people.
Speaker 1: There, of course, but I'm saying that. Okay. So Harvey
Speaker 1: comes to you, He's like, yo, I was kicking it
Speaker 1: with this is this is.
Speaker 3: All I heard is Kanye, Kanye, Kanye. And so he
Speaker 3: shows me the thing and him and Kanye have some
Speaker 3: kind of report that they're working on or whatever. I
Speaker 3: don't know it's going. And so a week after that he like,
Speaker 3: I'm in the newsroom. And by the way, at this point,
Speaker 3: I've been very outspoken on Kanye because this is Kanye
Speaker 3: posing with Donald Trump, this is post all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: So it comes up to me after the morning meeting.
Speaker 3: He goes, hey, I was like what there he goes,
Speaker 3: we didn't want to tell you. But about ten minutes
Speaker 3: Kanye was about to show up here. I was like
Speaker 3: inside of TMZ and he was like yeah. He was
Speaker 3: like all right, just let you know all the mics
Speaker 3: are going to be down because the way it works
Speaker 3: is for TMZ Live, which is the live show. Showa
Speaker 3: comes in the middle of day. You have a red
Speaker 3: button at your desk and a thing at your desk.
Speaker 3: Anytime you have that red button, you can talk. So
Speaker 3: after Harvey and Charles do their thing, you hit that
Speaker 3: red button, you can talk. So when I want to
Speaker 3: jump in and say something funny, I jump in and
Speaker 3: say something fun. When I want to jump in when
Speaker 3: it's time for them to come to me, like Van
Speaker 3: Van Van Talk, you can talk. But they had all
Speaker 3: the mics down because they just wanted this to be Harvey,
Speaker 3: Charles and Kanye West. Okay cool. So I go sit
Speaker 3: at mine shout out to Charlemagne because uh. I go
Speaker 3: sit down at my desk and I start watching the
Speaker 3: interview that Charlemagne did with Kanye that dropped that very
Speaker 3: same day when he was walking around Calabasa. So I
Speaker 3: started watching that. I'm at the desk. Kanye West comes in,
Speaker 3: very polite guy. I says hello to everyone and everything
Speaker 3: like that. They go over to the teams he live to
Speaker 3: start doing teams he live. As soon as the cameras
Speaker 3: come on, he turns into a fucking demon, right like
Speaker 3: when I say you and I'm like it just I
Speaker 3: come alive in the nighttime type shit. You know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. Yeah, he's talking now. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that he.
Speaker 1: Was being demon like the stuff he was saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the demon I'm not demonizing. Kanye West
Speaker 3: was like that was streaming consciousness the whole thing. I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, I'm still not paying an attention. I'm not
Speaker 3: paying any attention. I'm looking at the interview. I'm not
Speaker 3: a part of this conversation.
Speaker 1: So you're looking at the interview but watching kind of looking.
Speaker 3: Up or Kanya not really, but remember I've been told
Speaker 3: specifically that I'm not part of this conversation. So it's
Speaker 3: on them. Kanye says a slavery four hundred. Oh. By
Speaker 3: the way, Kennice Owens is with him. Oh, she came
Speaker 3: to the office with him.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you're not looking, not watching the
Speaker 1: interview and still looking at the shar interview.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the Charlemagne interview. They're walking around Calabasas, like,
Speaker 3: you know, they they Kanye got his hair, you know,
Speaker 3: they're having all of these deep as sauces. I'm looking
Speaker 3: at but I can. I can hear him though, because
Speaker 3: he starts to scream. He doesn't just want to talk
Speaker 3: to Harvey and Charles, he wants to talk to all
Speaker 3: of us, right, so I can, I can hear him.
Speaker 3: It was like, God, damn this nigga, damn nigga on
Speaker 3: one and so like, I'm still looking at it, and
Speaker 3: he says, slavery four hundred years, four hundred years. That
Speaker 3: seems like a choice to me, And everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 3: look when he said that, couldn't see her. I don't
Speaker 3: know she. I think she was in the other room,
Speaker 3: because there's a side room. A couple of weeks before that,
Speaker 3: and maybe like a month before that, Candace had gone
Speaker 3: viral for shutting down some some students that had come
Speaker 3: to a turning point us a meeting where she had
Speaker 3: said you're a victim and I don't like you, and
Speaker 3: fuck civil rights, whatever and and whatever she said to them,
Speaker 3: and Kanye was like, this is the type of thinking
Speaker 3: that I like. And then he put it Kanye put
Speaker 3: Candisons on like she like she she bah the way
Speaker 3: this is. If any want to make a judgment, call
Speaker 3: about Candace Owns. Go to wherever you go to for
Speaker 3: wherever you want to go to whatever. But he put
Speaker 3: her on basically, so she was with him for a
Speaker 3: little while. I think he got a lot of his
Speaker 3: his his early political when he was first in that
Speaker 3: new sort of right sphere of thought. I think a
Speaker 3: lot of he got a lot of that stuff from her.
Speaker 3: I think he probably still does it this day from
Speaker 3: a lot of those types of people. Anyhow, So he's talking.
Speaker 3: He says that I didn't say anything when he said that.
Speaker 3: There's a there's a misconception that he said that. And
Speaker 3: I was like, nah, I didn't like. I didn't like like.
Speaker 3: I didn't say yeah. People think it was like a
Speaker 3: big deal. I didn't say nothing, right, I didn't say
Speaker 3: anything at all? His business, he asked, He asked very simply.
Speaker 3: He said that everyone gasps. One other person had said once,
Speaker 3: one other thing about something that he had said. But
Speaker 3: most of the people in the room this sidebar real quick.
Speaker 3: You guys have no idea. I guess you actually probably do.
Speaker 3: Because Atlanta has per capital more famous people than anywhere else.
Speaker 3: You can't go to the fucking mall without goddamn nigga.
Speaker 3: Wasn't you in atl But like, but just fame just
Speaker 3: paralyzes people, particularly in LA like fame just like just like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it doesn't matter what he would have
Speaker 3: said up there, He's saying stuff and people are like,
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ is the most famous person that's ever And
Speaker 3: ifside this officer for it, but I'm.
Speaker 1: Surprised because at TMG they crossed past it a lot.
Speaker 3: No nobody like that, Like it's like, especially to be
Speaker 3: in the office doing that. It's one thing to have
Speaker 3: to see people out on the street and get a
Speaker 3: but you know there's a specific TMZ celebrity that we
Speaker 3: talk to all the time. You know, nobody like that.
Speaker 1: So take us back to that moment before you Superman.
Speaker 3: So he says that, and he turns around and he goes,
Speaker 3: he says the whole thing, and he goes, does it
Speaker 3: feel like I'm speaking freely? He says that. He turns around,
Speaker 3: he goes, does it feel like I'm speaking freely? Okay,
Speaker 3: Now let me tell you a split seconds is how
Speaker 3: my mind works, Like for me. I just have like
Speaker 3: my insecurity is that I just can't be the nigga
Speaker 3: you can fuck over. I don't have to be the
Speaker 3: number one guy, but like, I'll fight you until you
Speaker 3: realize you can't funk over me. I'll play you in
Speaker 3: basketball to our realize I can't be the easy guy
Speaker 3: to get over on. So if you ask me something
Speaker 3: like that and I didn't say anything, there's toxicity in
Speaker 3: me that says, I gotta answer this question, like I
Speaker 3: can't have allowed him that somebody might think that. It's
Speaker 3: like everybody was, like you filled up with the answers,
Speaker 3: is not. I didn't want to feel like a weakling. Yes,
Speaker 3: I didn't want to miss my opportunity to tell him
Speaker 3: how I feel like he was acting, because then it
Speaker 3: feels like I'm the one that he could just kind
Speaker 3: of get off on. So he says that, and I
Speaker 3: gonna know, y'all, I don't feel like you're thinking anything, like,
Speaker 3: actually you don't know you I remember, I'm said, I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna go back the whole thing. But you look
Speaker 3: crazy right now, like everything that you're doing, not just
Speaker 3: now but every other time, like you look crazy. You're
Speaker 3: not thinking, and particularly this, it's not even about that.
Speaker 3: It's about what the regression or how can I put this?
Speaker 3: Not regression, it's what a guy like that represents because
Speaker 3: we empower him. So imagine like spinning your youth, like
Speaker 3: arming somebody with this great, big cultural gun. Everything that
Speaker 3: Kanye did, we were I was down in Louisiana where
Speaker 3: he said George Bush doesn't care about black people. He
Speaker 3: was my god. Like all the things that he would
Speaker 3: say when he would speak out, like you defend them,
Speaker 3: you advocate for him, you do it. You stand by
Speaker 3: and you just the little cultural gun that he has,
Speaker 3: a little megaphone, it just gets bigger and bigger. The
Speaker 3: gun just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and then
Speaker 3: one day you're staring down the barrel of it. Now
Speaker 3: the things that he's saying that you've empowered him to
Speaker 3: say are being turned right back at you. And so
Speaker 3: like it's like, hey, don't shoot me, Like why why
Speaker 3: are you shooting at me? Like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: It's like I'm the same dude like you you Kanye West.
Speaker 3: I love you. Yeah, Like if I'm not about to
Speaker 3: diss him, never would I say to you know, you're
Speaker 3: a genius. Everything that you've done is you deserve all
Speaker 3: the stuff that you've gotten. We love you, but let
Speaker 3: me tell you how you're making us feel. That's it.
Speaker 3: That's it. I'm not trying to go toe to toad
Speaker 3: with like a cultural deity, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to act like he hasn't inspired me
Speaker 3: in the ways that he's inspired me, or act like
Speaker 3: he hasn't done the things he's done, Like we don't
Speaker 3: do that where I'm from. We give you your props
Speaker 3: or else we would be haters. But I just have
Speaker 3: to let him know, like what you're doing right now
Speaker 3: is particularly pernicious to us because we're in a very
Speaker 3: specific place in this country. And when you go back
Speaker 3: and you watch it, you listen, Now, look, my thing
Speaker 3: is this any one person like that. There's no person
Speaker 3: that's like going to be able to be a nigga
Speaker 3: whisperer and change what somebody thinks. Like there's a day
Speaker 3: to day experience that people have that has to do
Speaker 3: with their surroundings, who they are, their input and output
Speaker 3: that's going to affect how they look at the world.
Speaker 3: And you're not asking anybody to be to change that.
Speaker 3: But what I do think is important as black people
Speaker 3: who is for us to be cognizant of how what
Speaker 3: we do affects other people. For example, I worked at
Speaker 3: TMZ for nine years. I'm not in a moral position
Speaker 3: to chastise anyone, like literally, like not in a figurative way.
Speaker 3: I'm not in a moral position to chastise anyone. I
Speaker 3: understand compromises that people have to make in order to
Speaker 3: get to where they want to get. I understand that
Speaker 3: sometimes people might walk into situations and not really know
Speaker 3: what it is that they're getting into. And then on
Speaker 3: the other side, you know better than you do better, right,
Speaker 3: So it's not about that. It's about just alerting someone
Speaker 3: when you feel like they're doing harm and then that's that.
Speaker 3: And then after that, after I've said my piece, you
Speaker 3: can choose either you can continue to harm me or
Speaker 3: you can be different.
Speaker 1: So how did that milestone with Kanye change the trajectory
Speaker 1: of your life? Because it definitely had a huge impact.
Speaker 3: So it was really the beginning of my career. And
Speaker 3: the reason why it was was because number One, I
Speaker 3: was never going to be able to leave TMZ with
Speaker 3: the reputation that they have there, and this is not
Speaker 3: shots at TMZ or anything like that. Once you leave
Speaker 3: a place that has such a distinct perch and culture,
Speaker 3: it's very difficult for people to believe certain things about you.
Speaker 3: And I think going over.
Speaker 1: What do you mean, like what kind of culture? Like
Speaker 1: are you familiar with I am familiar with them. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, describe it. Ah, I'm saying from the journalists perspective,
Speaker 1: you're saying.
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, That's what I'm saying. So, look, there's a
Speaker 3: reason why like a TMS exists. And honestly, the reason
Speaker 3: why TMS exists is the need for people to feel
Speaker 3: good about themselves.
Speaker 1: The reader or the watcher to feel.
Speaker 3: So the celebrity in America is overloved, way overloved, over important,
Speaker 3: over everything. It just doesn't matter that much that somebody
Speaker 3: is famous or rich. It just really doesn't matter that much. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it's probably a net negative. However, it's so it's so
Speaker 3: precious to people that there's a need to feel that
Speaker 3: that person has done or is doing something.
Speaker 1: Wrong, like to more humanize them.
Speaker 3: Right, So, like the question becomes this, say, take Kim Kardashian, right,
Speaker 3: everybody saw her fuck right, everybody saw her. Fuck, it's
Speaker 3: just sex tape out. Everybody saw it, right, everybody watched
Speaker 3: the sex tape that comes out. And people get to
Speaker 3: make the decision about whether or not they would have
Speaker 3: that happen for them, whether or not they would go
Speaker 3: through that in order to be Kim Kardashian, And it
Speaker 3: makes them feel good to say no. So it makes
Speaker 3: them feel good to say, you know what, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: want that life. It's too crazy. It makes them good
Speaker 3: to feel to say. It makes him feel good to say,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't compromise myself in that way. It makes him
Speaker 3: feel good to say, I would never do this, I
Speaker 3: would never be around these people. I would never do that.
Speaker 3: I would never do this. It makes him feel good
Speaker 3: to say, Hollywood's too weird, I wouldn't do that. Right,
Speaker 3: And TMZ feels that bloodlust that people have, and it
Speaker 3: lets them disconnect from the idea that these people are
Speaker 3: better than them. It lets them disconnect because every time
Speaker 3: somebody gets a dui and it goes up to the thing.
Speaker 3: Every time somebody gets a divorce, everybody in here knows
Speaker 3: people have been divorced. Yeah, there's no magic or sinister
Speaker 3: story to a divorce. Sometimes it don't work out. It
Speaker 3: just doesn't work out. But you want to believe certain
Speaker 3: people will never be happy because their lifestyles are antithetical
Speaker 3: to happiness in a relationship. So you want to you
Speaker 3: want to believe, like like you like you, you you,
Speaker 3: you want to believe that, right, you want to believe
Speaker 3: that teams gives you that. In order to do that,
Speaker 3: TMZ has to treat those people like they're not people.
Speaker 3: They have to treat them as if their concepts celebrity
Speaker 3: is not a person.
Speaker 1: That's why I guess comes off a little bit invasive
Speaker 1: and ruthless.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, no, because they're.
Speaker 1: They're not treating they're they're treating them kind of like, well.
Speaker 3: You have to write like even even the TMS tour
Speaker 3: was a celebrity safari, Like what's on a safari?
Speaker 1: Yeah, animals animals, right and.
Speaker 3: So and so like when when you like the tours
Speaker 3: celebrity as animals, right and so you do that, right
Speaker 3: and what you what you say is okay, Well, in
Speaker 3: order to be a celebrity, the game is pr at
Speaker 3: its base, right, So this is what you sign up
Speaker 3: for kind of right, because like there are certain things
Speaker 3: that you don't sign up for I'll never talk. I'll
Speaker 3: never I'll never forget this. There was the sister of
Speaker 3: a celebrity that had that had had something taught done
Speaker 3: to them. I'll never forget. I'm not gonna talk about
Speaker 3: who I had the conversation with. I'm like, Yo, we
Speaker 3: shouldn't do that. And they did the story and this
Speaker 3: dude went on fucking and let us fucking happen, and
Speaker 3: I was like, yo, we had to take it down
Speaker 3: and apologize and do all that stuff. Like yo, like
Speaker 3: there's a limit to this. And that's not me making
Speaker 3: a moral judgment on the team team. I'm just telling
Speaker 3: you the way things go. So like when you know
Speaker 3: all of that, when you have an idea of what
Speaker 3: drives that, like obviously they're moral. Uh, there're things that
Speaker 3: you have to not care about to work there. But
Speaker 3: most of the people there are good people. They're just
Speaker 3: desensitized to whatever was going on there because that's where
Speaker 3: they work, like like that, like that's what they do.
Speaker 3: I'm there. It's the same thing. Things are coming in
Speaker 3: at a certain point you go goddamn, you know, and
Speaker 3: it's there will be little small things. This is a
Speaker 3: football player that had this video come out of some
Speaker 3: altercation it was in and it said savage beating by this,
Speaker 3: and I was just looking at the hellline. I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's I don't think we should go savage beating there,
Speaker 3: Like I think savage is like a that's like an
Speaker 3: interesting way or there's just little small things. The mayor
Speaker 3: of DC died, Marion Barry crack maryor Marion Barry dies
Speaker 3: like he died, and like, by the way, the people
Speaker 3: in DC are going to freak the funk out because
Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys know, but Marion Barry
Speaker 3: was with Martin Luther King Junior. Like where I'm from,
Speaker 3: like I deal with a group of people, a community,
Speaker 3: people that are always categorized by the worst moment that
Speaker 3: they have. And I don't feel comfortable with categorizing a
Speaker 3: man that means so much to his city by the worst,
Speaker 3: most scandalous thing you ever had. You can't talk about
Speaker 3: his life without talking about that, but maybe in the
Speaker 3: headline you don't do that. So so so, so all
Speaker 3: of those things start to start to happen, and so
Speaker 3: for me, what the place represents, it's not even so
Speaker 3: much a bunch of uh not even so much a
Speaker 3: bunch of moral people that are running around trying to
Speaker 3: get the dirn on celebrities. It represents our relationship to
Speaker 3: celebrity and our relationship to ourselves, because there's no fucking
Speaker 3: reason whatsoever why we should spend so much time talking
Speaker 3: about what happens in the lives of famous people.
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