WEBVTT - A Conversation with Dodo Molinari, Vice Captain for Ryder Cup Europe 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.320 And when I find my ball. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:08.920 In a fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida Egg 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.840 Friday Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg Bride Egg. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.080 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump course. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.240 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.040 I'm your host, Andy Johnson, and uh I am joined 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.120 today by Joseph Lamania. Joseph, you're you're actually kind of 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:49.839 the host of this podcast today. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.880 No, this is all you. I just got to interview Dodo, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:54.960 which I hope people like. 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.400 So yeah, this is a uh this is Joseph took 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:04.400 the reins on the interview front interview Dodo Molinari. Molinari 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:11.640 obviously a long time European tour player but now kind 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.840 of one of the people on the forefront of golf analytics. Joseph, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.040 you are on the forefront of golf analytics too, So 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.160 this is going to get deep in the weeds on 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.520 golf analytics and many other topics. But big thanks to 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.640 Dodo for coming on and chatting with you. Let's do 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.080 in out and we'll do recommendations at the end of 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.800 this podcast. Joseph, what are you in on? 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.480 My in and my out are kind of related, but 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.560 what I'm in on is Braden Thornberry and seeing him 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.880 get it done in the corn Ferry Tour finals yesterday. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.000 He's had a rocky year, and he's also just had 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.920 generally a pretty up and down start to his professional 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.520 career after an unbelievable amateur career. He was a Haskins winner, 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.680 won the NC Douaa, was a walker cupper on the 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.000 same team as Morikawa and Scheffler and Will's al Taurus. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.320 He struggled to find his footing and came into yesterday 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.760 with a very outside chance of getting his PGA Tour card, 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:13.799 and he got it done. It was cool to see 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.680 him get choked up and talk about basically, things haven't 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:19.440 gone his way the last couple of years, and it's 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.280 nice to finally have something go his way. Seems like 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.240 a cool down to earth dude who now has his 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.720 PGA Tour status locked up for next year. Was extremely 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:30.160 satisfying watching him win. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:36.720 This is a guy that if you had changed the 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:41.760 way that the golf, the PGA Tour used PGA Tour. 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.200 You like, he's a couple of years may a year 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.440 or two before the start of PGA Tour. You but 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.840 if you went back and redid that, he would have 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.320 had like a PGA Tour card. He was sensational his 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.080 senior year. He was the best player in college golf 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.360 and it wasn't even close. So this is a guy 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.440 that it just shows how hard it can be to 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.760 make the tour. It can be a matter of you 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.600 have a bad week at the wrong time, you fall 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:18.760 under rut, you play your best golf at inopportune times, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.560 like we saw that with Hideki Matsiama. This is what 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.480 I always think about this, Like when you rattle off 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.240 what four of six wins in twenty sixteen, I believe 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.480 the winter it was like, oh, like, this guy is 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.480 the best player in the world, but he's playing at 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.840 his best golf of his career at the wrong time. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.119 You know, it's like, just there's no nothing consequential brain Thornberry. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.840 I mean, he's played everywhere. I think he was playing 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.800 on like the All Pro Tour at one point. This 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.240 is not something you usually see of a Haskins Award 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:58.000 winner of a the best player in college golf, especially 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.960 in this era. I think long term these types of 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.320 things can be a blessing in disguise. It could give 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:13.720 them a little bit more juice, a little more I 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.240 guess motivation, because you can. I'm sure he had some 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.560 moments where he felt the bottom where he's watching guys 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:25.360 that he used to compete, probably beat a lot, have 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.280 huge success on television on the PGA Tour. Congress to 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.960 Brain Thornberry, great, great moment. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.160 Yeah, and he's twenty seven, Andy, so it's not like 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.520 he can get polished, and this could be the next 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.880 five years could be a really good period of golfer. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.080 Brain Thornberry so excited for him. What are you in on? 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:50.280 I'm in on golf courses mattering. I think we talk 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.360 about this a decent amount on this podcast. But I 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.680 found it to be just like a fascinating juxtaposition between 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.960 the end of the Dunhill and the end of the Sanderson. 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.560 I want to be clear, both of them were really 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.560 good finishes, but one had just an extra dimension then 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.680 the other. The weather was gnarly in Scotland. The weather 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.359 was gnarley and players were playing down one of the 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.000 most historic back nines in all of golf. They were 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.560 battling and it was very much of a kind of 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.360 just hang on for dear life situation because the wind 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.839 and everything that went into it. We saw Bob McIntyre 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.279 just go off about the seventeenth hole at St. Andrews, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.640 a player that was in the mix, saying it should 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.200 be blown up redone. There's this preposterous that I had 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.200 to hit a four iron into the green. This is 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.200 what we want, this is what we want from pro golf. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.760 We want the golf course to be holding up. And 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.359 I think, like you know, the Old course was a 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.320 great example the day before in pretty benign conditions. Players 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.240 were just going nuts and beating it up and then 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.680 the wind comes out and the rain comes and it's 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.400 as much as they can handle. But like them hitting 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.320 a foe iron. This is this is a quarterback in 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.640 the NFL going against a great defense. The golf course matters. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.039 It adds an additional layer. The finish to the Sanderson 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.320 was great, but it was more of here are a 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:25.000 couple players that don't usually win trying to get it done. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.200 There was no added element of the golf course is 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.000 presenting a really tough test and standing in the way 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.520 of them getting it done. And I think that's the 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.080 thing that you had with Terrell Hatton cole Starts going 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.040 back and forth down the stretch. It was, you know, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.599 Hatton opened up a lead, but then you know, you 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.880 turned and went back into the wind. On the back nine, 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.839 it was really hard and cole Starts was hitting great 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.320 golf shots and then it comes down to eighteen. Hatton 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.560 gets up and down for the birdie. Cole Starts doesn't. 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.279 He wins. It was just a It was a sensational 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.120 finish to the Dunhill, and the golf course amplified it. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.760 So this is not necessarily a shot at Country Colby Jackson, 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.800 which is maybe one of the most bland golf courses 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.440 I've ever seen on TV, but not a shit there. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.840 They shouldn't be hosting PGA Tour events at courses like this, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.040 and I understand there might not be a better host 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.800 in Jackson, Mississippi, But if you're going to take in 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.960 a couple billion dollars from house side investors, this is 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:33.960 something to look at. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:34.400 There. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:41.160 There is a another added layer of interest when these 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.800 players play at really great golf courses. So when you 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.440 have three billion dollars in the bank or whatever they're 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.400 going to have if this PIF deal comes in. I 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.360 think something they should really genuinely kick the can down 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.840 the curb on is how do we play? 0:07:58.880 --> 0:07:59.080 You know? 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.120 Or you know, I think this isn't a something that'd 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.480 be worthwhile to look at create worthwhile venues, And if 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.400 they're going to do that, I don't think the TPC 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:15.120 network can be involved. So that I loved, loved the 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:16.880 finish of the Dunhill links. 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.640 The only as well said, the only thing I'll add 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.800 is Country Club of Jackson's a pretty good example of 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.480 a golf course that has narrow fairways and doesn't test 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.200 accuracy at all. Kind of to your point, right, like 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.439 Bo Hostler and Kevin, you are some players with firepower 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.800 who do not hit the ball particularly straight, and this 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:37.640 is one of those that I think if you're into 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.319 numbers and stuff, it comes up frequently, right like you 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:42.880 can kind of hit it anywhere out there. So good 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.240 one for people to look at that. We kind of 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:46.840 talked about this in the pod of ODO a little bit, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.560 But that's a good template of a golf course that 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.439 maybe looks on paper like a test accuracy, but doesn't 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:53.800 at all, and kind of goes to your point that 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.559 that's just not a great PGA Tour test. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.679 Andy, Yeah, I mean all this stuff matters. It goes 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.679 down to to like the corn Ferry Tour, where courses 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.920 are not really indicative of skill. It's it's mostly just 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.360 driver wedge fest there. It's not you know, they don't 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.079 play a lot of golf courses where you got to 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:19.120 hit a high towering seven iron and this used to 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.280 be a four iron, by the way, but a high 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.800 towering cuts seven iron into a tuckpin. Like, it's mostly 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.800 just bash the driver up there and hit your sixty 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:31.880 degree And all this stuff matters and how it relates 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.680 to competition at the highest level and when everything gets 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.200 ratcheted up. So what are you out on? 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:45.000 I'm coming after a shotgun start some of you guys. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.400 Are you guys enjoy? So I apologize in a Champion 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:50.360 I'm coming after the Champions Tour. 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.520 God, you're doing it well. Pj's in producer mode. He 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:56.320 can't even come on and defend it. 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.320 The Champions Tour has gotta go watching corn Fairy Tour 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.880 guys who are trying to make their living, and you 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.800 have the International Series on the Asian Tour Challenge Tour, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.960 like these young golfers are having trouble making a living 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.400 and watching rock O mediate cash a three hundred and 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.800 fifteen thousand dollars check from Furick and Friends yesterday. It 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.719 just cannot be an efficient use of the PGA Tours resources. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.720 Not even to mention, I think the golf world has 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.320 a little bit of a star building issue that some 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.440 of these young guys come out on tour and people 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.040 don't know who they are. There's probably an opportunity to 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.080 divert some of those Champions Tour resources into building the 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.680 corn Ferry Tour and building college golf, Like college golf 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.720 isn't even really on people's radar, and I think that's 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.400 something that could be an engaging avenue for the golf 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.280 world to go down, is to put some money into 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.520 that and maybe not into this. I don't know. It 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:56.000 basically feels like televising adult rec league softball at this point. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.600 For me, I can't believe that the purses are as 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:00.520 big as they are for a Champions Tour events. That 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.559 whole operation needs to go away. 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:09.559 I I agree with uh with what you're saying. Sorry, PJ. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.360 I've got I've been watching more champions to a golf 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.480 lately just because of our stupid bit on the shotgun start. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:21.520 But I would I would totally agree with the idea 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.200 of the star building. I think this is something that 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.520 the PGA Tour really really has to think about. The 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.080 sport's getting young and athletic, uh in, younger and younger 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.319 every year. One of the tough things about that is, 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:43.480 like the awareness of young golfers is extraordinarily low. So 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.440 if that's the case, if if you're having trouble with 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.439 with awareness of like who is Kevin You, for example, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.559 a great young player who was a great player at 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.440 Arizona State and has basically breezed up to the highest 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.160 level of go He took his PGA Tour you an 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.320 exemption on the Corn Faery Tour, turned it into a 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:12.080 PGA Tour card and one year and then has won 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.600 on the PGA Tour in his first year on the 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:19.000 PGA Tour. Ninety nine percent of golf fans have no 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.320 clue who Kevin You is, and that would be he 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.800 would have been a absolute superstar in college golf. He 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.640 was a superstar in college golf. The problem is two 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.520 thousand people in the world might care about college golf. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:42.320 So that is the real issue, and the tour has 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:48.559 to address that. The Champions Tour is effectively a roughly 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.199 sixty five million dollar subsidy. They just subsidize the tour. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.600 If you took sixty five million dollars and put it 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.400 into the corn Faery, you'd have every single event would 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:06.120 be televised and broadcast alive. You'd have enough money to 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:11.600 pour down into televising maybe a handful of elite amateur 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.000 events and more college events, which to your point, are 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.080 you're building your stars. You are just building the awareness 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.160 up so that when Kevin You wins at age, what 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:24.120 is he twenty five? 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:26.719 Who is twenty six? 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.720 Who is not? Who is Kevin You? It is? You 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.080 know what, We've watched this kid, uh from when he 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.040 was one of the best players in college golf to 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.280 when he was one of the best players in cornery 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.240 on the corn Ferry Tour. We have The other aspect 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.520 of this is we have a a trove of assets, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.560 like footage of them playing at all these stages, and 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.440 we can show you how good of a player like 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.040 this is. It is not just a you know, we're 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.760 putting this on. It is gathering the requisite assets and 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.240 having your people, you know, be ingrained. Like they have 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.800 this huge organization, but you know, outside of Sean Martin 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.640 and maybe a handful of others, nobody pays attention to 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.440 what's going on in college golf because it's not their job. 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.640 This would make it part of their job and they 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.160 would just get better at covering the young players in 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.840 the sport. There'd be more context, There'll just be more understanding. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.520 And the whole point of competitive sports, right is you 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.520 want to be watching the best or people who are 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.400 on track to be the best. Like I can't think 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.240 of another league that people watch where everyone is clearly 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.320 past their primes and is not going to be competing again. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.760 So it just feels like an obvious waste of money 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.720 that the PGA Tour should be looking into. All right, 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:47.880 what are you out on, Andy. 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.800 I'm out on the I guess the treatment this is 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.080 similar to the treatment of the Corn Fairy Tour. The 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.000 Corn Fairy Tour Championship is that was played this week. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:05.400 Can is one of the best days in golf, the 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:11.200 best weekends in golf. I think when pro golf really 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.280 thrives when it's at its best besides the mat besides 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.520 the majors, if you take out the major championships, the 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:23.680 most compelling aspect of pro golf is relegation and promotion, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.040 and it goes to vying for Ryder Cup spots. I 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.640 would consider that kind of relegation and pro in promotion. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.800 That's more of a promotion like, hey, you've been put 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:41.480 on this pedestal down to relegation promotion from the PGA Tour, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.600 corn Ferry Tour, and you could even go down to 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.320 the America's Tour. We don't ever, we're not gonna, We're 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.040 not anywhere close to seeing that. But that's another fascinating aspect. 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.800 So the Corn Ferry Tour, thirty cards are handed out. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:55.480 It is. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:02.000 I would say probably a top for you know, listen, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.400 like passerbys aren't watching golf outside of the top five 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.600 or six events outside of like the Ryder Cup, the Majors, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:15.160 maybe maybe the Players President's Cup. So once you get 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.560 to like event, I don't know, thirteen twelve thirteen, this 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.040 is probably in like the top fifteen golf events on 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.200 the men's golf events on the calendar. This is a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:32.480 top fifteen event. Please please find a better find a 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.560 better slot for it. You just cannot run it up. 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:42.560 You know, at noon on a Sunday against the NFL, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:48.320 you cannot the television broadcast calendar like this is finishing. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.640 The most compelling event comes at the end of the 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.640 afternoon of the first slate of football games, the most 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.920 football games. Give this a chance. I thought the venue 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.200 was really great. French Lick, the Pete Die Course is 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.800 a really interesting golf course. It's a big boy golf course. 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.760 It's a it's a golf course that you would type 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.840 of shots you would see high level tour events, high 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:20.679 level tour course. It just needs to you know, this course, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.040 this this tournament should be covered. It should have its 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.119 own week. It shouldn't go opposite Sanderson. It should have 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.639 its own week and really be put up front for 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.640 the PGA Tour because it is one of their best events. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.200 So I just like, I think that the tour really 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.960 needs to like look at their assets, look at what 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:48.920 events they have, and construct a calendar based off of like, Hey, 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.679 I know this isn't a PGA Tour event, but this 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.280 is one of the best things we have going and 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.600 if we prioritize it it's another potential, you know, one 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.320 hundred million dollar plus franchise if we if we can 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.000 do this right. And this goes back to like kind 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.920 of what you talked about, but like this would make 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.520 the corn Faery the more compelling. The final event is 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.600 the more compelling every other Corn Faery Tour event is. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.240 Yeah. I think one of the sneaky best golf days 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.760 of the year, Andy is US Open Final qualifying, which 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:32.080 has a similar vibe where it's the golfers are getting 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.080 a life changing result that day, right and battling down 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.720 to the wire. That usually wraps up on on Monday night. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.680 I think there's probably an opportunity for the corn Faery 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.800 Tour to maybe explore not finishing their events on Sundays. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.000 I'd be I would think that if the corn Ferry 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.040 Tours wrapped up like on a Monday evening, there'd be 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.560 a lot more interest or a Tuesday evening. So I 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.600 think that could be something to explore. But I agree 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.320 with you it should be highlighted way more than it is. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.920 It's a pretty special closing stretch to just nobody was 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:01.439 watching it. 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.639 I really like the course, But that being said, I 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.919 think like this we talked about this a lot. I 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.760 think the PGA Tours actually exploring the potential of getting 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.119 some West Coast playoff events like we've talked about for years. 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.480 But the the idea of being able to get this 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.520 on the West Coast and maybe finishing on you do 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:29.399 Saturday through Tuesday in primetime. You know, you know that 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.720 nobody's there's no football on Tuesday night this time of year, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:39.399 and you go, you know, it's like that would be great. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.320 You get the primetime slot on a Tuesday. I mean, 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.080 I know that the I know golfers didn't really like 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.199 TPC Stonebree. I was thinking that would be a solution, 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:50.879 but I know a lot of the lot of the 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.680 Corn Ferry Tour players didn't love it. But find find 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.679 a good venue and have it there. I mean, I 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.679 know chamber Spay is like actively looking for things to host. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.680 That'd be so sick. Cornfair Tour finals at Chambers Day 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:05.359 would be sweet. 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.080 I mean, they're talking to Live. I think they would 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.480 love to have the corn Ferry Tour finals if they're 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:17.680 talking to Live. All right, let's get to Dodo Molinari first. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.119 Let's talk about true golf. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:20.880 All right. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.920 You may not have heard of True Golf before. They 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:28.440 have a product called launch Box by True Golf, and 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.040 this is an all new portable launch monitor and golf 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.800 simulator from True Golf. It's super easy to use. 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All right, let's get 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:48.960 to Dodo Molnarm. 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.439 Okay, we are joined by Eduardo Molinari, a man of 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.399 many tight, active member of the DP World Tour, currently 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:08.120 playing a full schedule, chief data strategist and vice captain 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:12.440 for Ryder Cup Team Europe. And you founded a stats business. 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.159 Now I believe you are partnered with our Coast Golf, 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:17.359 which we'll try to get to a little bit of 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.760 all of that. Thanks for joining amidst a busy DP 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.400 World Tour schedule. How you doing, Eduardo, Yeah, I'm doing great. 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.000 Thank you for having me. It's always fun to speak 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.120 about these things and I'm looking forward to this. 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:36.399 So the golden source of golf information. I was reading 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.520 on Wikipedia that you are considered one of the most 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.159 emotional players on the European Tour and one of the 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.280 most attractive players on the on the DP World Tour. 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.720 I have to ask, are you editing your own Wikipedia page? 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.160 I am not. There's a lot of lies in Wikipedia, 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:54.320 fake news. 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:56.959 So I want to get into some of the data 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.840 and some of the Ryder Cup stuff a little bit 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.959 towards the end, But first I wanted to start with 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.760 your background. How did you get started playing golf, and 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.880 you grew up in Turin, Italy. What did the youth 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.560 golf landscape look like there and what was your introduction 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:13.080 to the game. 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.080 Well, basically, my parents used to play golf. They were 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.119 members at the local golf club, one of the best 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.200 in town, which was more like a which is more 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.960 like a counter club. So when Francesco and I were 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.199 about seven eight years old, we started to go to 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.760 the golf course with them. We would play some golf 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.840 with other kids. We spend some time in swimming pool, 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:39.960 we would play some soccer, just you know, basically spend 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.600 the weekend outdoor rather than in front of a PlayStation. 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.320 And that's how we started. I mean mom and dad 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:52.680 were both at the time like single digit handicaps, so 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.720 we just you know went with them. And but for them, 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.640 like it was always school came first and then if 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.040 you could play good golf grade but if not, you know, 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.040 it had to be successful in school. 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.520 When did you know that professional golf was a realistic 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.679 outcome for you versus I'm sure you're always focusing on 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.359 your studies, but when did that attention turn to professional golf? 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.280 Quite late, I would say probably my second or third 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.199 year in university. I went to college in Torino and 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:26.439 I studied engineering, and when I started, I had no 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.439 intention at all of turning pro. I was a good amateur, 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:34.479 but there was nothing, nothing extremely good. The thing is 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:36.520 I was only playing a couple of times a week 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:38.399 at the time, and then when I started college, I 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.760 started to play three or four times a week, and 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:46.000 then I started to get better pretty quickly. So towards 0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:48.359 the end of my it was between the middle and 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:51.760 the end of my college career, I said, well, I 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.760 want to finish this first and then I want to 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.639 give it a try at golf. But it wasn't something 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.280 that you know, I wasn't like one of those is 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.800 that when they're like sixteen or seventeen every I think, so, 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:08.080 this is going to be unbelievable. So then my very 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:11.159 last year in college, I was playing good golf. I 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:15.879 qualified for the Open Championship and then I made the 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.520 cut as an anders and then straight after that it 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.439 was a US Amater qualifier. At the time, there was 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:25.000 no World Amateur rankings or anything, so I just flew across, 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.040 won the qualifier, back on for a couple of weeks, 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:31.200 back to Marion, to play the USUM and then won 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:35.560 the USUM, which obviously opened the one thousand doors and 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:38.560 a lot of opportunities, and it was the best thing 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:42.080 that could happen to my golfing career. So then I 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:45.600 had to wait another nine month because obviously you don't 0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:48.080 want to turn down the opportunity to play in the Masters, 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.159 in the US Open, in the Open Championship again, and 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:54.240 then I turned for the following year after the Open Championship. 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:57.560 Yeah, I think you might be being humble here with 0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:00.480 with your response and downplaying your career. We're going to 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:03.000 talk a lot about data and analytics, but I didn't 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:07.000 want to overlook the success of your amateur and professional career. 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:10.240 Had the two thousand and five US Amateur at Marion 0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:13.080 noted you were the first golfer from Continental Europe to 0:26:13.119 --> 0:26:16.159 win that event, and like you mentioned, that got you 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:18.959 into the two thousand and six Masters, where you were 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:21.959 paired in the first two rounds with Tiger Woods and 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:26.240 Robert Allenby. And I believe your brother Francesco, who you'd mentioned, 0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:30.480 obviously a great professional golfer and major championship winner, was 0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.480 on the bag for you that week. Pretty incredible set 0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.359 of circumstances for your first Masters. Wanted to ask what 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:37.600 you remember about that week. 0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:42.640 Yeah, it was an incredible week. The thing is when 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:44.720 you win the US I didn't know this until I 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.160 won the US Samatur, but when you win the US Amatur, 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.199 you play the following year the Masters with the defending champion, 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:53.600 and Tiger happened to win in two thousand and five. 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.280 So basically I was waiting for this tea time with 0:26:56.359 --> 0:27:01.600 Tiger the Masters for like six seven months, and I 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:05.480 just remember obviously, you know, I remember taking a lot 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:07.280 of notes from the week. A friend of mine st 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.000 you should write them down, and I think it was 0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:10.960 a great idea because I still had this like small 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:14.560 diary with some thoughts and things that happened that, you know, 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:17.280 almost twenty years down the line, you're starting to forget. 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:21.560 The feeling was very weird, to be honest, I remember 0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:24.359 not even being nervous on the first tee. It was 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:29.760 like something between a dream a movie set. It was 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.800 just very very weird. Like a lot of people around 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.159 the tee obviously on the first all playing with Tiger, 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:40.560 and he introduces himself like every other golfer high you know, 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:44.000 Tiger was nice to meet you. And you know, it 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:48.639 was weird. Francesco was cadding and I remember, you know, 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:52.040 anytime Tiger went into a greenside banker, he was the 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:53.760 first one to be right next to him, trying to 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:57.240 clean his ball and trying to It was just, you know, 0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:01.640 an experience for both of us which made me realize 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:05.280 a that obvious even if I won USUM, I was 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:08.639 still far far away from you know, being able to 0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:12.639 compete in a major championship. But also you just you know, 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:15.360 you just see other people play, You see those kinds 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.600 of courses that you know, as an amateur you don't 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:22.280 even dream about playing in the Masters, and it was 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:23.920 it was an unbelievable experience. 0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:27.160 You know, people talk a lot about the pressure of 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:30.879 making your master's debut. Obviously the fashion in which you 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:34.119 made your debut was heightened playing with Tiger Woods. Do 0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.560 you think it's possible for a golfer to play well 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.000 in a circumstance like that or are you so out 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.960 of your own body that it's not even a realistic 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.440 expectation for you to put on a good performance that week. 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.200 I think it is possible, but I think that's going 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:54.120 well above and beyond your expectations again as an amateur, 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:57.040 especially if you think about twenty years ago. You know, 0:28:57.080 --> 0:28:59.400 the biggest tournament I played was the Tidian Open, which 0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:02.640 is like a you know, middle tier event on the 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:05.800 on the DP war Tour. So all of a sudden, 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.720 you're playing agasta on greens. The you know, probably the 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:10.760 quickest green that I've seen was ten and a half 0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:12.360 at the time, and all of a sudden, it's like 0:29:12.720 --> 0:29:16.960 twelve and a half to thirteen. So, I mean, everything 0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:19.400 is so difficult to I tried to play quite a 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.840 few practice rounds in the in the weeks before, in 0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:25.040 the days before, but the problem with the Gasa is 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:27.200 that the course tend to change a lot from even 0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:31.960 from Wednesday to Thursday. I remember on Wednesday playing with 0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:38.480 Sergio Alazabal and maybe Caderrera at the time, and I felt, oh, 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:40.280 you know, the golf course is not too difficult. The 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:43.480 greens are still receptive enough. And then you show up 0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:46.280 on the parting on Thursday morning and all of a sudden, 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:49.120 the greens became brown and it's like, well, you know, 0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:51.479 twelve hours ago it was fine, and now it's just 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:55.239 completely out of control. So it was you know, it's 0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:57.720 always an experience, and it's something that you know, some 0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:00.479 people might tell you tomorrow is going to be firmer, faster, 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:04.000 but until you see how much of a difference they 0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:07.280 can make in twenty four hours, it's really difficult to believe. 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:10.400 And I think that's part of the reason why anyone 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:15.000 playing the first Masters has a massive disadvantage, because it's 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:17.760 difficult to imagine how the golf is going to play 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.440 until you actually see it with your own eyes. 0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:25.440 Generally speaking, Eduardo, and we'll get into some data related 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:28.720 concepts and strategy here in a bit, But when a 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:31.880 golf course changes that much, how much do you think 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.920 that should change the way that a golfer attacks that 0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:39.360 golf course, right, whether it's being aggressive on approach, shots, 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:43.080 off the tea strategy, or in your opinion, like, yes, 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.760 the golf course is playing quite differently, but you're still 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:47.719 adhering a lot of those same principles. 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:52.959 I would say, you apply the same principles, but everything 0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:56.760 is just more extreme. So obviously, a short sighted miss 0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.280 that you know on the Wednesday of the Tuesday wasn't 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:02.280 too bad all of a sudden on Thursday is basically 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:06.240 a full shot gone so I would say in Jenna, 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.080 and you have to play a little bit more conservative. 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:12.240 When it becomes so firm and fast, you get exposed, 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:15.720 like bad shots get exposed a lot more. You just 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:18.040 have to be in full control of your of your game. 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:20.880 And I think it's you know, it's a great way 0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:23.520 to separate the you know, the best players in the 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:27.360 field to someone that is playing other golf. I would 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.520 say it's much more difficult to separate players on a 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.480 soft golf course or a slow golf course, for sure. 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.479 All right, let's shift gears a little bit towards some 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.640 of those data related concepts, something that you've established a 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:42.920 strong reputation for, not just with your own statistics business, 0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:45.920 but your involvement in the Ryder Cup, which we'll get 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:48.920 to at the end. You have a technical background with 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.320 a PhD in engineering. Can you give us some background 0:31:52.360 --> 0:31:54.840 on how you became interested in golf data and when 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:57.080 that passion turned into a formal business. 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:01.760 Yeah. So, as I said, I was engineering in college, 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.600 so I was always into numbers, starts, and you know, 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:10.760 all those things. Towards the end of my engineering career, 0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:14.000 I thought that it would be a good idea to 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:17.680 start tracking starts about my own game. So I started 0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:22.000 developing a very simple Excel spreadsheet at the time where 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:24.840 I could record fairways gaining his number of parts. It 0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:28.440 was extremely simple in the beginning, and then like everything 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.600 I do, I try to make it a little bit better, 0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:34.440 you know, each week, each month, and it became quite 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:36.840 quite a big thing in you know, after a few years. 0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:41.760 Then I met Mark Brady at the beginning of twenty eleven, 0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:46.560 and that's when he starts gaining patting came out on 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:50.400 the PG tour for the first time. So I just 0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.959 read the article, I you know, looked for the for 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.200 the you know, the guy behind it. I sent him 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.400 an email. We met a few weeks later in Florida 0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:01.600 and since then we've been good friends. We spend a 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:03.920 lot of time together. We tried to shot, you know, 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:09.640 as much as we can. So fast forward twenty nineteen. 0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.280 So I started collecting my own data in two thousand 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:16.520 and three. So then about sixteen seventeen years later, there 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:20.760 were a few guys in Europe that we're looking for 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:24.920 some sort of system to collect their starts. There was 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:27.280 one company at the time working in Europe, which you 0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:32.120 might know. And then the thing with me is everything 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:35.400 I had done until then was written in Excel. It 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:38.760 was all in Italian. It was very clumsy to enter 0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:41.360 the data, so it was difficult for anyone else to 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:45.000 use it. And then COVID happened. So during COVID, I 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:48.800 basically had three four months at home, no tournaments, nothing 0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:52.520 to do where you know, in the beginning, I said, well, 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:54.360 I'm going to beat this ago and I'm going to 0:33:54.400 --> 0:33:57.960 start building something that more players can use, and you know, 0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:00.560 we can do reports and we can make it easier 0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:04.880 to analyze and to read and to use. And then 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:08.919 during COVID, I remember speaking to Phil Kenyon and Phil 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:11.160 obviously is a great patting coach and he has a 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:14.719 bunch of top players, and I said to Phil, I said, look, 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:18.040 i'm building this a If you have any ideas, any 0:34:18.040 --> 0:34:20.880 feedback that you would like to add, I'm very happy 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.600 to because I'm, you know, literally building it from scratch. 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:26.600 And then, b if you think about any of your 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:29.879 players that might be interested, then I like to talk 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.560 to them. And a few days later he put me 0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:37.839 in touch with Met Fitzpatrick. And when I showed what 0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:40.480 I was doing to Matt, he was immediately blown away. 0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:43.080 And he said, well, he wasn't even finished at the time, 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:44.719 but he said, you know this is going to be 0:34:44.760 --> 0:34:47.239 so good, and I trust you so much that I 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.840 don't care how much this caused, how much you charged me, 0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:52.360 I'm just going to I just want to use it perfect. 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.480 So then he was my first client when players started 0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:59.839 after COVID, and I thought, you know, once I get 0:34:59.880 --> 0:35:03.440 to do ten players in a couple of years, that's it, 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:06.600 you know, that's I won't be managing more than ten players, 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:09.880 and as simple as that. And then Matt started to 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:12.440 play really well. He had a few interviews where he 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:16.439 talked about me, and then within I want to say, 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:18.840 eight or nine weeks, I was up at ten players 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:22.359 and there were more and more coming in. So then 0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:24.920 I had to hire one person, then a second person 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.759 to help me with some day to day stuff so 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:30.640 I could still Basically what I'm doing now is I 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:36.040 have three people helping with the basic stuff, and I 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:38.760 like to spend my time still, you know, thinking about 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.920 new ideas or new stuff you can do with the data. 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:46.720 So I split my time between still developing some things 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:50.839 and helping players with the analytics. And as you said, 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.359 it's become quite a big business because he started as 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:56.319 a hobby. Then I said it was my retirement plan, 0:35:56.680 --> 0:35:59.600 and now it's pretty much my major job. 0:36:00.719 --> 0:36:03.680 So this is a huge and broad question that might 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:06.880 be difficult to answer. But if you had to distill 0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:10.799 the insights from looking at that data into one or 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:15.879 two key insights from this period of data advancement and 0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.920 the evolution of course management, what would you say that 0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:23.320 those insights might be. And based on your answer, I 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:25.920 might have a couple follow up questions there, but not 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:29.439 to lead the witness here right, like disaster avoidance and 0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:32.799 aiming away from hazards. Like how would you describe those 0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:36.160 key insights that players have internalized to shoot better scores? 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.959 There's a lot, I would say the most common one, 0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:46.480 especially for tour players, is being way too conservative of 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:50.120 the team, Like a lot of guys like to lay 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:52.920 up with a three or two ile on some holes, 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:55.680 and it just when you actually look at the numbers 0:36:55.680 --> 0:36:57.440 and you show them the numbers, it just doesn't make 0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:02.080 any sense. And I think as probably that that's the 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:07.400 most common mistake. The other common one that I found 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:11.000 in many many cases is the opposite one is being 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:14.880 overly aggressive with approach shots like taking on some pins 0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:18.319 that doesn't make any sense to take on. I would 0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:22.920 say for the elite players, that's the two most common ones. 0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:26.560 And then there's a very strange one, which is it's 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.720 not really a mistake, but it's like, as a player, 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:34.920 you have no idea about your missus, about what you're 0:37:34.960 --> 0:37:36.680 good at, what you're not so good at. You might 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:39.520 have a rough idea, but once you know, if I 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:41.560 start asking you, are you better on left to right 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:45.560 pass or right to left paths, I can bet pretty 0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:47.960 much all the money I have that most players don't 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:50.839 really have a clue. And sometimes I was the same 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:53.560 myself before collecting all this data. I was just, you know, 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.279 sometimes I was looking at it and I remember one 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.720 time going to for a patting lesson to fil Kenyon 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:01.640 and he says to me, what's your you know, what's 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:04.479 your common mistake in patting? And I said, well, Phil, 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.919 I'm missing everything to the right, Like any bad path 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:09.759 is always to the right, and whether it's a left 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:11.839 to right or right to left, it's always to the right. 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.600 And it was like very early days in my you 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:20.680 know stats thing, so I didn't really have good starts 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:25.000 about my putting so I started to back trace, and 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:27.280 I had a look at the last six months prior 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:29.279 to that lesson if I was missing more to the 0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:32.960 left or more to the right, and on any break 0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:35.920 from any distance, it doesn't matter the type of grass, 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:38.399 the speed of degreen is anything. I was missing two 0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:40.239 times more often to the left than to the right, 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:42.719 and I was convinced as a player that it was 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.919 the opposite, probably because I missed a couple of short 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:47.840 pass to the right or a path that you know 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:49.880 to make the cut or to win a tournament to 0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:52.960 the right, and then in your mind you just create 0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:56.440 these stories that it's very difficult to eradicate from a 0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:59.520 player's mind. But when you actually look at the data, 0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:01.600 it's like, hang on a minute, I missed two pass 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.120 to the right, but you know in the three rounds 0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:05.919 prior to that, I miss eight pass to the left, 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:08.400 So I'm actually missing more left and right. And I 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.520 think that's something that again without collecting data, it might 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:13.279 be on your putting, it might be a long game, 0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.680 it might be whatever. There might be a player that 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:18.960 is convinced that is three would is fantastic. And then 0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:21.160 you look at the numbers and the dispersion is actually 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:25.000 worse than the driver. It's just very difficult as a 0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:29.000 player to have, you know, a neutral eye and an 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:30.200 opinion on your game. 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:33.200 I want to get into a hot button topic here, 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:39.000 especially for our audience which is very architecturally interested. And 0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:41.000 do you have a guess. Do you have a guess 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:44.239 where I'm going with this angle? It's data related. There 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:48.360 we go, there we go? Angles? Right, So before we 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:51.680 even I will just open the floor to you when 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:56.480 you hear the discussion around angles. I think there's kind 0:39:56.520 --> 0:40:00.560 of two different topics here. One is too ang matter 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:04.319 at all? And one is are they worth pursuing? Right? 0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:08.520 Can you just offer your perspective maybe on both of those. Yeah, 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:10.360 I think that's pretty related topics. 0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:14.040 Yeah, I think the two are very linked. I would 0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:18.680 say on ninety nine percent of courses and golf holes, 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:26.879 angles don't matter at all, simply because there's various ways 0:40:26.920 --> 0:40:29.400 to look at it. But if you look at scoring 0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:33.040 average on certain holes of shot link you've got millions 0:40:33.080 --> 0:40:35.600 of shots, and then look at the scoring average from 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:37.360 the middle of the fair way, the right side, the 0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:42.920 left side, into right pins, left pins, middle pins, basically 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:46.440 doesn't change. There's no because I think the thing is 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:50.319 what you gain a little bit being on the right 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:52.239 angle of the whole, on the right side of the hole, 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:54.560 as most people think, or when you when you see 0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.960 on TV look you hear about angles a lot. I 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:00.279 feel like what you gain being on the good side 0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:02.960 of the of the hole, you lose it because all 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.240 of a sudden the hazard becomes more on the side. 0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:08.520 And again, as golf professional, is much easier to go 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.680 over water than to go on a hole with water 0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:15.080 on the side of the green. So obviously we're talking small, 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:18.279 small margins. But what you gain on one side, you 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:20.360 lose it on the other. So it's at the end 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:24.000 of the day, angles don't matter one bit now. The 0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.480 only I would say, the only time where they do 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:28.640 matter a bit is that if you're in the rafugh 0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:31.920 sometimes you're in the left raff and you have a 0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:34.680 slightly better way into the green or angle, if you 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:38.839 want to say, then the right side. But again, it 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:42.279 doesn't make any sense to chase an angle because you think, oh, 0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:44.400 I'm going to have an easier second shot, because at 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:46.359 the end of the day, being on the fairway, even 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.600 if if it's on the wrong side of the fairway. 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.640 It's always better than being on the you know, in 0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:53.520 the raf on on the right side of the hole. 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:58.239 Now there's a few Yeah. 0:41:57.680 --> 0:41:59.120 Go ahead. I was just gonna say I had looked 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:01.759 at I don't know, it might have been fifty to 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.640 one hundred thousand shots and basically found that if you 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:06.719 have a lot of green to work with with a 0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:10.040 long iron from the fair way, it was worth about 0:42:10.280 --> 0:42:13.440 a tenth of a shot of an advantage versus if 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:15.719 you didn't have a lot of green to work with, 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:19.560 which is one way of thinking about the angle question there, right, 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:22.880 And so if you think about the typical penalty associated 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:25.520 but the rough, it's much higher than a tenth of 0:42:25.560 --> 0:42:29.440 a shot generally, So the more you try to gain 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:32.040 that tenth of a shot of an advantage, you bring 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:35.080 in more risk of finding the rough. Therefore it's not 0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:39.719 worth it. Is that a reasonable way to summarize some 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:40.680 of those findings. 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.520 Yeah, absolutely, I think, as you said, the penalty for 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:47.719 being in the rough on pretty much every golf holl 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.759 in the war is higher than the penalty or the 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:56.080 advantage you gain by having a slightly better angle. And again, 0:42:56.560 --> 0:42:59.440 as you said, like slightly better angles only matter in 0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:01.840 a small percentage of golfl like it needs to be 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:03.759 a long haul, you need to have green to work with, 0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:05.799 It needs to be probably a firm green as well, 0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:09.560 it needs to be a very wide farewell. Like the 0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:12.720 only course I can think of where the angle matter 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.279 a little bit is the Old Course of Sanders. But 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:19.360 there you have like ninety yards white fairway in some cases. 0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:23.200 So obviously from being fifty yards right of center or 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:26.799 forty yards left of center, the second shot changes dramatically 0:43:27.719 --> 0:43:29.560 up to the point where from the left side you 0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:31.920 might have to go over a banker to a firm 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:35.000 green to a short pin, so it's unstoppable, while from 0:43:35.040 --> 0:43:37.040 the right side the bunker is not even in play. 0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:40.320 But again, how many courses there are in the world 0:43:40.320 --> 0:43:43.320 like the Old course, Probably you know less than five. 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.719 So I think at the end of the day, you know, 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:51.200 as we said, in most most cases, they don't really 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:52.080 they don't really matter. 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.719 So I think that is a very unsatisfying answer for 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.080 a lot of people who have a passion for golf 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:03.400 course architecture, and so part of what you're hitting on 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:05.640 is it is part of the function of the golf 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:08.120 course as they play right and if every golf course 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:10.720 looked like Saint Andrews, and we would probably talk about 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:14.759 angles a little bit differently. My question to you would be, 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:17.600 if you were tasked with building a golf course to 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:22.440 test the modern professional golfer that maximized strategy, it also 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:26.720 was a demanding test. It maximized shot value. What would 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:28.839 that golf course look like. What are some of those 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:32.040 architectural features that you found to be a strong test 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:35.319 for professionals that are engaging mentally? Right, It's not just 0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:37.960 this rip it down the center of the fairway with 0:44:37.960 --> 0:44:38.760 the stock fade. 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:42.200 Yeah, I would say, first of all, give you options 0:44:42.200 --> 0:44:44.640 of the tea, So make you think a lot of 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:47.200 the tea. I think a lot of courses we play 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.439 these days just you stand on the tee, you diver 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:51.520 it down the middle, you go there, you find where 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:53.880 it is, and you keep going. And I think to 0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:56.480 test the golfers of the tea, you have to have 0:44:56.960 --> 0:45:00.920 increasing penalties as you move further away from the fairway. 0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:03.080 So if I missed the fairwey by five yards, I 0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:05.759 should be penalized a little bit. If I miss the 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:08.560 ferry by thirty yards, I should be penalized a lot 0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:12.040 more and if I miss it by sixty yards. I'm 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:14.160 not saying it should be automatic, ob but it should 0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:17.680 be like something similar. And I think of, you know, 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.760 of all the courses on the PGA Tour Agasta National, 0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:23.400 I think it's it's a great golf as of the 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:26.520 Tea because it's kind of designed in that way. Like 0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:28.640 if you you know, if you hit a good t show, 0:45:28.680 --> 0:45:30.920 if you're a good driver the golf but Agasta National 0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:33.120 and you have a great chance to win. If you 0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:36.200 don't drive the golf ward, well, you don't stand the chance. 0:45:36.400 --> 0:45:41.560 It's as simple as that. I think what I don't 0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:45.279 like about Augusta I think sometimes the second shots are 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:48.120 built in a way where there's too much of a 0:45:48.200 --> 0:45:51.319 fine line between a great shot and a and a 0:45:51.400 --> 0:45:57.800 poor result, Like if you think about especially whole SAYHULD thirteen, 0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:01.080 I think that's a bit extreme sometimes where you're hitting 0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:04.440 like a long iron of a side slope into a 0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:07.480 green and then you know, the difference between pitching it 0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:10.040 on the green or two yards short is like between 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:13.279 a three and a six. I think that sometimes it's 0:46:13.320 --> 0:46:16.160 fifteen as well. I think sometimes that's a little bit 0:46:16.200 --> 0:46:19.719 too much. But I think of the Tea Agasta nationally 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.240 is as good as a test of a modern golfer 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:25.120 as they can. Like, I hate when you see a 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:28.439 golf course where everyone is just bombing driver and there's 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:30.879 not much consequence whether you're on the fairway, whether you're 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:33.319 in the rough. Yes, you lose a little bit if 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:35.719 you're in the rough, but not so much. And I 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:38.640 think the way Augusta is built is you know, you 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:40.520 need to be in position of the tea in order 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:43.040 to have a chance to hit the second shot close. 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:46.319 And the more you move away from the middle of 0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:50.359 the fairway, the more trouble you're going to encounter. And 0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:51.240 I think that's okay. 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:55.640 Two things there, Yeah, two things there. One, A lot 0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.680 of people would say that at Augusta you can spray 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:01.400 the ball off of the tea. It's wide fair ways, 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.120 you don't need to be accurate. Eduardo, what is your 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.200 response to that? And I agree with you. You're you're 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:08.239 already nod in your head. 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:13.400 No, No, I mean yeah, I played a gasta a 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:17.319 few times and the very first feeling I got the 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:20.120 first time I played was wow, this is this is 0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:21.960 difficult of the t Everyone was saying, oh, you can 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:26.160 spray it everywhere. It's not. There are some T shirts 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:30.080 that are quite generous, I give you that, but most 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:33.160 of them, I mean, the first T shirt is very difficult. 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:35.799 Is as difficult as a T shirts as they come 0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:39.720 in opening T shirts in major championship. I think because 0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:42.200 again it's like the difference between a good T shirt 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:44.799 and a bad T shirt is it could be a lot. 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:47.040 If you hit a good T shirt on the first 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.080 it's you're looking at, it's almost a birdihole like it. 0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:52.920 It becomes it plays under part. As soon as you 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:55.920 miss that fairway, you'll do you'll do very well to 0:47:55.920 --> 0:47:58.480 make it four. And if you miss it by twenty 0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:01.160 yards each side, then do very well to make a five. 0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:06.480 And I think that's, you know, that's the typical characteristic 0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.600 of a good golf old. I think so. I don't 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:12.120 think it's you know, some of the lending areas, yes, 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:15.759 are wide, but also the penalties around those landing areas 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:20.120 are quite heavy, and so if you spread around the gasta, 0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:24.600 maybe again I think that people are a bit I 0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:27.640 think biased by When Tiger first came out, the golf 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.160 course was much shorter, it was a lot wider, and 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:33.520 the distance he was hitting the ball, you could hit 0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:35.760 it pretty much anywhere, like on eighteen he was flying 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.759 it over the bankers and then yes, you have, you know, 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.200 one hundred and fifty years to play with there, but 0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:43.720 now you can't do it anymore now. The landing area 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:46.640 on the eighteenth it's probably twenty five years wide, the 0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:49.280 actual landing area because the right half of the fairway 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:52.759 you can't see the green. So I think it's you know, 0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:55.799 it's a difficult course of the team, or at least 0:48:55.880 --> 0:48:57.560 I would say it's difficult, but it's a course that 0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:00.320 separates a lot of the good drivers from the poor ones. 0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:03.920 Yeah, So I'd love to get your reaction to this. 0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:09.120 Rory McElroy has had mixed results at Augusta National. Obviously 0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:13.320 a player who hits the ball extremely long off the tee. 0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:16.279 I think sometimes he's described as more accurate off the 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:20.120 t than he should be. At least that's what I 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.520 have seen. And so I think there's a story to 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:27.120 tell here that Rory early in his career Augusta National 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:31.000 fit his game better. Like you are mentioning with how 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:34.680 the course used to play for professional golfers versus now 0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:37.680 with this speed revolution in golfer's hitting it a lot farther. 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:43.560 Rory himself included that his dispersion pattern doesn't fit on 0:49:43.719 --> 0:49:45.759 Augusta National as well as it would have at the 0:49:45.760 --> 0:49:48.200 beginning of his career. Is what is your reaction to 0:49:48.520 --> 0:49:49.040 that theory? 0:49:50.280 --> 0:49:53.719 Yeah, I kind of agree with it. I think the 0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:59.040 issue with Roory Augusta, I think it's nearly being solved now. 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:01.880 To be honest, I think in the last in the 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.960 last few years, excluding say the last couple of years, 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.640 I would always seeing him play way to aggress him 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:12.600 into the greens like it would often Shore sight himself 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:16.360 way like if you if you look at Tiger around Agasta, 0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:18.640 I mean he can make the cut one leg and 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:22.040 with the you know, no back, and it doesn't matter 0:50:22.160 --> 0:50:25.960 simply because he just plays in a way where he 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:29.040 always lives. If he misses a shot, he always leaves 0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:31.640 himself a chance to get up and down, which is 0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:33.759 the same thing that Scott did so well this year 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:35.880 when he was windy. I think it was the Saturday 0:50:35.960 --> 0:50:39.880 that was very windy. I can't remember exact there was 0:50:39.920 --> 0:50:41.840 one round where he was very windy and it was 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:44.880 difficult for everyone, but Scotty was missing greens, and he 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:47.319 would always miss it on a side where he would 0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:49.760 have an up and down, and I think in previous 0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:53.239 years I would obviously, you know, I was hoping for 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:56.200 Rory to win, and I'm still and I think it will, 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:00.640 but I think he was just missing two often in 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:03.799 places where you know there's no there's no tomorrow, there's 0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:06.160 no you're starting to make. You can't make a power, 0:51:06.200 --> 0:51:09.359 you're starting to make a bogie. So I think one 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:12.160 issue is that, And I think the other issue with 0:51:12.520 --> 0:51:15.799 Rory Agasta, as you kind of mentioned before, is that 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.480 he hits it very, very long. But I think compared 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:23.399 to other players, even when he's playing well, he might 0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:26.960 still hit a bad shot that obviously gets punished at Agasta. 0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:30.160 Like if I see, you know, the players of those 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:35.480 caliber like John and Scotti and Brooks and DJ, when 0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:38.839 they're on and they're playing really well, I don't see 0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:45.640 many bad shots, while you know, with Rory as good 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:47.680 as he is, and you know, he's every bit as 0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:51.280 good as any one of these players, sometimes even within't 0:51:51.280 --> 0:51:54.560 easy in contention, he still hits one shot that is like, 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:57.480 you know, forty years off line and a Gasta you 0:51:57.520 --> 0:52:00.360 pay a big price for it. So I think it's 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.200 a combination of things. I think I really like the way. 0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:07.000 I think it was not this year, but last year 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:10.239 that he started really to talk in his you know, 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:14.160 pre Masters press conference about trying to be more patient 0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:17.560 and how he not to you know, play himself out 0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:21.000 of the tournament on day one, which happened before, you know, 0:52:21.160 --> 0:52:23.759 trying to accept that sometimes he just needs to work 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:25.880 for the middle of the green and tupat and keep going. 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:29.239 And I think that's ther mindset and the attitude to 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:32.360 win a Master's and I'm pretty confident that he's going 0:52:32.440 --> 0:52:33.080 to win one soon. 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:37.000 Sticking on the Rory subject just for a minute, and 0:52:37.080 --> 0:52:40.040 a high profile scenario that he had earlier this year, 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:44.600 there's sort of a debate that often happens when somebody fails, 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:48.000 so to speak, in his position, which was a missed 0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:50.759 put on the seventy second hole at the US Open 0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:55.520 at Pinehurst. Right, he has a four foot downhill slider, Eduardo, 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:57.799 you played in this tournament, so you're pretty familiar with 0:52:57.840 --> 0:53:01.719 those greens. When something like that happens, maybe you know 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:05.399 where I'm going with this. Often people will start to say, like, well, 0:53:05.440 --> 0:53:08.840 he should have left himself below the hole. Now, what 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:11.440 is your reaction immediately when when you hear that. 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:15.320 No below the whole? Well, obviously it would have been easier, yes, 0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:18.160 But then if he tries to leave himself below the 0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:20.040 hole on the chip shot, he might be ten foot 0:53:20.040 --> 0:53:23.439 away and all of a sudden, you know, the make 0:53:23.480 --> 0:53:27.120 percentage from ten foot even from six feet or seven 0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:30.520 feet versus a four footer down hill across the slope, 0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:35.120 the fore footer is much easier, So you should always 0:53:35.200 --> 0:53:38.560 try to, you know, be as close to the hole 0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:43.120 as possible. I think the again with the Oral Pioneers. 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:46.919 I think the big mistake was on sixteen the three 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:49.600 but the bogie on sixteen from basically the middle of 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:53.160 the fairway with a short iron in hand. That second 0:53:53.160 --> 0:53:55.440 part was again a three four footer, but it was 0:53:55.520 --> 0:53:58.680 much easier than the one on eighteen. That's probably what 0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:02.360 cost him the US Open, I would say. And the 0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:04.960 other thing as well is that, you know, you can 0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:07.600 talk as much as you want about that last round, 0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:10.480 but you cannot say that or Patti Pole on that 0:54:10.560 --> 0:54:14.160 last round because up until the fifteenth hole he made 0:54:14.760 --> 0:54:17.400 basically every part he could make in that round. He 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:20.120 was very unlucky on the part five on the the 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:22.360 fifth hole where he had a good second shot and 0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:25.640 ended up making a sixth. I mean there was probably 0:54:25.680 --> 0:54:30.120 a foot away from being an easy four. And again 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:33.840 it's I think people underestimate how difficult it is to 0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:39.080 win golf tournaments, especially majors, especially those big events. I mean, 0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:42.319 he hasn't won in ten years now, but there's only 0:54:42.400 --> 0:54:45.400 four years. There's a lot of you know, good players 0:54:45.400 --> 0:54:49.880 that are trying to win them. It's it's extremely difficult. 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:52.200 Then sometimes you need to know, you need to be 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.000 lucky at one point. And obviously he's always been on 0:54:55.040 --> 0:54:57.960 the on the bad side recently. But you know, I 0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:00.000 saw him last week at Wentworth and I said, two, 0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:03.120 you know, it was before if finished second again. It 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:05.320 just you know, I finished second at the Irish Open 0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:08.200 and I said to him, I said, eventually, if you 0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:10.239 keep playing like this, eventually the wheel is going to 0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:11.840 turn and you're gonna be on the good side and 0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:14.280 you're gonna start winning, you know, five, six and seven 0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:17.480 times in a year, like like Scotty does. And he 0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:19.160 just laugh and he said, yeah, I know. I just 0:55:19.360 --> 0:55:21.520 you know, have to be patient and it's gonna happen. 0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:26.040 So I know what's going on in some people's heads 0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:29.239 when they hear your explanation right there, and then what 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:34.680 they will say, Dodo, is you're basing your analysis off 0:55:34.719 --> 0:55:38.160 of the average four footer, and that the four footer 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:41.200 that Rory hit from above the hole on the seventy 0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:45.680 second green at Pinehurst, excuse me, is way harder than 0:55:45.760 --> 0:55:48.600 the average four footer. And actually you'd rather have a 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:52.239 seven footer uphill to win than to have that four 0:55:52.280 --> 0:55:56.520 foot slider. What is your advice your reaction to that, 0:55:56.560 --> 0:55:59.080 but also your advice to junior golfers or anybody that's 0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:01.680 trying to play at a highlight. Are you always trying 0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:04.240 to chip it as close to the hole as possible 0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:07.279 or would you can see that, hey, in extreme situations 0:56:07.280 --> 0:56:12.280 when you play glassy, extremely undulating greens somewhere like Augusta, 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:14.840 somewhere like Pinehurst. You know what, there actually might be 0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:17.920 some situations where I'd rather have a six foot uphill 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:20.640 put than a three and a half foot downhill slider. 0:56:20.680 --> 0:56:21.960 What's your perspective there. 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:27.160 Well, there are situations where you you would obviously you 0:56:27.160 --> 0:56:30.160 would like to have or it's easier to have. I 0:56:30.160 --> 0:56:32.799 wouldn't say six footer versus a three footer like it 0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:36.560 could be like a I'll give you like a five 0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:42.839 footer at Agasta on what's the slowest green there, say, 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:46.040 on fifteen across the slope, and you know, down towards 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:50.319 the water, that five footer is probably more difficult than 0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:54.480 the six footer straight up hill. Maybe, But again we're 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:58.760 talking extreme situations where the average golfer would never encounter, 0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:02.560 like on your golf course, as fast as the greens 0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:05.879 may be, as sloppy as they may be, I think 0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:09.000 from short range at least, it doesn't. It's just the 0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:13.680 closest you are, the better it is. Now, if you 0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:17.600 know from further away, obviously a ten footer downhill on 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:20.320 a super quick green it's going to be probably more 0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:23.240 difficult than a twelve footer straight uphill or a thirteen 0:57:23.280 --> 0:57:26.480 footer even. But then the thing is if you're starting 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:29.520 to if you're trying too much to leave yourself the 0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:31.480 uphill pass, then all of a sudden you'll be putting 0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:34.919 all day from further away, and then you're gonna it's 0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:37.120 not an effective strategy in the end. It's almost like 0:57:37.200 --> 0:57:39.640 you have to accept that sometimes you're gonna have a 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:43.720 four footer, you know, across the slope downhill, and you 0:57:44.480 --> 0:57:46.320 just have to hope that it's not on the last 0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:48.600 all of us open to make the playoffs. 0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:51.400 Two more questions for you before we get to a 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:54.040 little bit of a Ryder Cup section, which I'm sure 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:56.840 people are eager to hear your thoughts on the Ryder Cup. 0:57:57.560 --> 0:58:00.440 So you work not only with men's professional golf, but 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:03.720 with women as well, and I believe Nelly Korda is 0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:08.320 a player who you ever working relationship with. Obviously, she's 0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:11.720 had a phenomenal season, a breakout year. I would be 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:15.720 interested as you look at women's golf data compared to 0:58:15.760 --> 0:58:19.960 the men's golf data. Do most of these same concepts apply. 0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:22.880 My intuition would be that they do right, that they're 0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:25.640 too conservative off of the tea's as well. But some 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:28.200 people might argue, well, the women's game is different and 0:58:28.480 --> 0:58:30.720 they hit it more accurately off the tea, so they 0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:34.520 should hit driver less often. What's your overall impression for 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:36.320 analyzing both of those sets of data. 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:41.240 I would say very very similar. Obviously, the women, like 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:45.360 someone like Nelly, is incredibly accurate off the tea with driver, 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.360 and obviously she hits it longer than her competitors, but 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:54.120 she is straighter than anything I've ever seen. Like I 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:56.680 remember the first you know, after the first few events, 0:58:56.800 --> 0:58:58.520 you know, I got all the data and I created 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:00.160 the report, and I had to check the report a 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:02.880 couple of times because I thought, there's no way she's 0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:06.920 hitting these many fairways. There's something wrong. But it's just 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:10.720 it's a driving machine. She's very, very good. Also with 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:15.440 a prose play. You know, she was a bit like 0:59:15.680 --> 0:59:17.920 I remember last year talking to his Caddy as well, 0:59:17.920 --> 0:59:20.560 and she was a bit like Scotty, Like you could 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:24.080 see the potential in Scotty and you know, the pattern 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:27.840 was letting him down. And Nellie was kind of similar, 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:30.760 like as soon as she has and others were good 0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:34.240 patting week, it's almost impossible for her to finish outside 0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:38.600 top three. So she's an unbelievable golfer. But going back 0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:42.040 to your question, I think pretty much the same concept applies. 0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:45.360 Like even with them, you can see them sometimes they're 0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:48.120 two conservative of the tea. Same as demands they should 0:59:48.200 --> 0:59:53.200 hit driver way more often. And sometimes you know, even 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:57.240 someone like Nelly that she has the approach shots incredibly good. 0:59:57.640 --> 0:59:59.760 She sometimes can be a little, you know, to a 0:59:59.800 --> 1:00:02.800 girl see into the greens. I think as golf professional, 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:07.480 as you almost overestimate your ability with approach play with 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:10.080 you know, being able to you know, there's a flag 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.160 on the left side with water left, or just going 1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:14.480 to aim two years eight of it with a seven iron. 1:00:15.320 --> 1:00:19.120 Sometimes you know, it's almost impily. I put it this way, 1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:24.000 it's almost impossible to be too conservative into the grease 1:00:24.120 --> 1:00:26.480 with your approach shots, like you would have to be 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:30.200 seriously aiming away from the pin way more than you think, 1:00:30.880 --> 1:00:33.960 and it's just very easy to become too aggressive. And 1:00:33.960 --> 1:00:36.600 if you're too aggressive, you usually pay a big price 1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:37.920 for it, especially in the beginnings. 1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:42.480 So I read in a twenty ten John Garrity golf 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:46.480 dot Com article that you were accustomed to hitting a 1:00:46.600 --> 1:00:49.520 draw off of the tea and then put in a 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:52.680 significant amount of work to change over to hitting a 1:00:52.720 --> 1:00:56.160 fade with the driver. And I think something we've seen 1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:59.200 in the modern era is a lot of players having 1:00:59.400 --> 1:01:03.840 more success with a fade. My question to you is 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:06.240 is that actually just a realization of the best way 1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:09.800 to play golf or is that also technology driven that 1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:13.560 the modern driver you're the right person to ask, because 1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:16.680 when you started playing golf and playing professionally in the 1:01:16.720 --> 1:01:20.360 early to mid two thousands, the driver technology has changed 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.080 a lot to now. So is that was that inevitable 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:24.600 that everyone's going to end up hitting a fade or 1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:27.040 is that a byproduct of driver technology advancement? 1:01:27.640 --> 1:01:30.800 I would say I would say it's a byproduct of 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:34.760 how the drivers are built these days. Obviously, the cog 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:38.800 is very close to the face to reduce spin, maximize spin, 1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:44.440 maximize speed. And I think for some reason it's so 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:47.640 difficult to hit the draw with you know, the modern clubs, 1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:51.840 especially with the driver. I remember, again going back to 1:01:51.920 --> 1:01:54.280 Rory when when he first came out, everything was like, 1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:57.840 it's linging twenty five yard raw even off the tea, 1:01:58.560 --> 1:02:01.919 and then in time like even now, when you see 1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:05.040 him hitting a driver on a good day or when 1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:09.320 he's playing well, it's a pretty neutral shape. And he 1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:11.760 was someone that he again he would, you know, sling 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:15.760 it twenty twenty five yards right to left, and his 1:02:15.880 --> 1:02:18.680 swing hasn't really changed much. Maybe a little bit, but 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:22.440 not that much. And when you look at you know, 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:25.960 all the top drivers of the ball, I would say 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:28.880 at least eighty percent he did left to right, and 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:30.840 they don't even try to hit it right to left 1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:33.880 Like the most consistent of them, they all he did 1:02:33.960 --> 1:02:36.720 left to right. And I think again it's something to 1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:40.120 do with how the driver is built, and also I 1:02:40.120 --> 1:02:43.160 think swing wise, it's probably a fade is a little 1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:44.960 bit more reliable than at all. 1:02:45.680 --> 1:02:48.640 Last part on this we've had We've heard from a 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:52.600 number of professional golfers, especially who have played over the 1:02:52.880 --> 1:02:56.320 similar period of time that you have, whether it's Adam Scott, 1:02:57.160 --> 1:03:01.880 Billy Horseell Rory, that the driver has gone from being 1:03:01.920 --> 1:03:03.320 one of the hardest clubs to hit to one of 1:03:03.320 --> 1:03:06.680 the easiest clubs in the bag to hit. And I 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:09.520 think we've been pretty adamant on this podcast that we'd 1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:12.600 love to see the driver head shrunk or become less 1:03:12.680 --> 1:03:16.240 forgiving so that off center hits find some more of 1:03:16.280 --> 1:03:18.880 those penalties. Similar to how you're describing with the kind 1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:21.880 of architecture that you like to see. What is your react? 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:25.560 Would you be in support of regulation change that shrunk 1:03:25.640 --> 1:03:27.840 the size of the driver head. 1:03:28.520 --> 1:03:31.480 I think that will be way more effective than what 1:03:31.480 --> 1:03:35.120 they're trying to do with the golf ball. I think again, 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:38.280 as you said, it would bring a lot more penalties 1:03:38.320 --> 1:03:41.280 of the team play. It would bring more skill to 1:03:42.160 --> 1:03:46.320 you know, driving the golf ball straight and long. I think, 1:03:46.400 --> 1:03:48.680 you know, if I were to, you know, to make 1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:52.160 the rules, I would definitely go down that path. I 1:03:52.160 --> 1:03:56.440 think it's something that amateur golfers won't probably enjoy because 1:03:56.480 --> 1:03:58.640 for them it's easy with you know, these days, with 1:03:58.720 --> 1:04:01.080 the big club heads and just swing it and it 1:04:01.080 --> 1:04:04.120 doesn't really matter where you hit it, it goes somewhere straight. 1:04:05.160 --> 1:04:07.600 But I think for professional golf, I think that would 1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:11.520 be the way to go again. It will bring a 1:04:11.560 --> 1:04:13.520 lot more skill back into the game for sure. 1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:16.400 I think we need to see it desperately. I think 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:21.120 it's a very under the radar issue that would significantly 1:04:21.160 --> 1:04:22.760 increase the entertainment value of the sport. 1:04:23.400 --> 1:04:26.440 And it would solve as well a lot of issues. 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:28.880 To be honest, it would solve the courses being too 1:04:28.960 --> 1:04:32.080 long or like too short for the modern player, because 1:04:32.080 --> 1:04:33.800 you won't be able to swing it at one hundred 1:04:33.800 --> 1:04:36.880 and thirty miles per hour and keep it on the planet. 1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:39.120 You would have to swing it a bit more like 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:40.320 you know, a few years ago. 1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:42.760 I'm with you, all right, let's get into the Ryder 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:44.880 Cup section. This is the section of the pod that 1:04:45.000 --> 1:04:48.720 I believe Eduardo is going to dodge some of the 1:04:48.840 --> 1:04:52.680 questions as he is the an integral part of the 1:04:52.720 --> 1:04:56.640 brains of Team Europe. What was the first Ryder Cup 1:04:56.640 --> 1:04:58.800 that you were involved from an analytics side. 1:04:59.000 --> 1:05:02.400 Eduardo was the one in Italy. He was the one 1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:06.640 in Italy. I never did anything before then, just when 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:10.720 even before Luke. So when Hendrik Stenson, he was captain, 1:05:11.400 --> 1:05:13.440 he knew I was working with some of the players 1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:16.680 and we met a couple of times. He asked me. 1:05:16.840 --> 1:05:18.640 It was kind of a job interview. He asked me 1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:20.760 what I was doing, what I could provide to the team, 1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:24.280 and I guess he liked what I could do for them, 1:05:24.360 --> 1:05:27.640 and then he hired me and he named me vice captain. 1:05:27.640 --> 1:05:31.280 And then when Luke became captain, he called me the 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:34.720 very next day. And I've known Luke for like twenty 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:38.800 five years, probably because we played amateur golf together, and 1:05:38.880 --> 1:05:40.840 the same thing. He asked me, you know what I 1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:44.320 could do, and obviously he Luke was vice captain before 1:05:44.360 --> 1:05:47.920 in Whistling Straits and in Paris as well, so he 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:50.920 knew what was going on there and he said, yeah, 1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:53.680 I would like to, you know, get your help and 1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:57.640 keep working with you. So you know, yeah, I did 1:05:57.640 --> 1:06:00.919 the last one in Rome and of when when Luke 1:06:01.080 --> 1:06:05.360 was named captain again, I remember the very the day 1:06:05.400 --> 1:06:07.240 before he was named captain, he sent me a very 1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:10.160 nice text saying, you know tomorrow i'd be announced as captain. 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:13.960 But you know I need I need you to be 1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:16.960 at my side from day one pretty much. So please 1:06:17.720 --> 1:06:19.680 you know, I would like you to to be vice 1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:21.720 captain again and said, yeah, of course, fantastic. 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:25.160 That's awesome. So you will be a part of the 1:06:25.160 --> 1:06:29.040 team at beth Page for Team Europe. I have a 1:06:29.080 --> 1:06:32.520 couple of questions here and again feel free to disclose 1:06:32.600 --> 1:06:35.040 as much or as little as you'd like. Obviously we're 1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:37.400 going for as much as possible, but we'll see what 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:41.120 we can get. You know, one view, when you're making 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:44.080 optimal pairings, it would be, hey, we're going to put 1:06:44.120 --> 1:06:49.200 together the best analytically the best data driven pairings, and 1:06:49.520 --> 1:06:51.200 we're going to tell you who to play with, and 1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:53.600 you're gonna be fine with that, and you're gonna go 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:55.920 out and play well, right like, that's probably in your 1:06:55.960 --> 1:06:59.880 head the ideal scenario, but like, let's say, for example, 1:07:00.600 --> 1:07:03.560 there are two golfers who really want to play well together, 1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:08.400 think they have extremely strong chemistry, but you might evaluate 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:12.200 that they're a quarter of a shot, for example, disadvantage 1:07:12.680 --> 1:07:17.520 compared to the optimal pairing. I mean, is there does 1:07:17.600 --> 1:07:21.200 that chemistry matter to where it could actually when you 1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:23.760 factor it in outweigh that quarter of a shot? Like, 1:07:24.000 --> 1:07:27.120 how do you think about quantifying the chemistry and who 1:07:27.120 --> 1:07:30.320 people sort of on a subjective basis, want to play with. 1:07:30.680 --> 1:07:32.640 I think we find the chemistry that works a bit 1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:39.040 better with the data. Like I mean, I think the 1:07:39.080 --> 1:07:42.000 great thing with Luke was that we well, he was 1:07:42.040 --> 1:07:46.000 able to make decisions, and we made decisions altogether as 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:50.880 vice captains with him taking into accounts all different bits 1:07:50.920 --> 1:07:54.840 and pieces. Obviously we knew, you know, which players wanted 1:07:54.840 --> 1:07:58.600 to play with who, We knew what the data was suggesting. 1:08:00.320 --> 1:08:02.640 But then there's a you know, there's a lot more 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:05.439 things that go into it that it's not only the data, 1:08:05.440 --> 1:08:07.040 it's not only the players. Then you have to look 1:08:07.080 --> 1:08:09.840 at what balls they use, what you know, do they 1:08:09.880 --> 1:08:12.840 play well together? Do they you know, are they friends? 1:08:12.880 --> 1:08:15.800 Are the wives getting along well? I mean, there's a 1:08:15.840 --> 1:08:18.960 lot of stuff that goes on in there. It's not 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:21.200 only obviously, the data is a big part of it, 1:08:21.680 --> 1:08:24.439 and I felt like Luke was going very much with 1:08:24.479 --> 1:08:28.280 the data. Then you know, there were some pairings that 1:08:28.280 --> 1:08:30.800 we had in mind that for one reason or the other, 1:08:30.920 --> 1:08:35.439 we couldn't we couldn't bring out. But again it's I 1:08:35.439 --> 1:08:39.000 think you need to find the right balance between the data, 1:08:39.280 --> 1:08:42.840 what the data says, what the players tell you. Sometimes 1:08:42.880 --> 1:08:46.360 you might have a player or a pairing that looks unbelievable, 1:08:46.400 --> 1:08:48.479 but then they're not playing well, so all of a 1:08:48.520 --> 1:08:53.040 sudden you can't really use them together. It's a combination 1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:55.439 of things. I think that the big thing for us 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:58.320 with the data was that we had a good plan, 1:09:00.080 --> 1:09:01.800 stuck to the plan because obviously we got off to 1:09:01.840 --> 1:09:07.560 a great start, but it was avoiding some big mistakes 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:11.639 or some you know, yeah, basically avoiding some big mistakes 1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:14.479 that were done before that might have you know, been 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:18.040 repeated in Rome. We just stayed away from, you know, 1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:20.479 a couple of pairings that you know, sometimes the players 1:09:20.520 --> 1:09:23.599 want to play together, but you just explained to them, look, 1:09:23.640 --> 1:09:26.439 this is it's not gonna work. So if it's not 1:09:26.479 --> 1:09:28.479 gonna work, you're not gonna look good. We're not going 1:09:28.520 --> 1:09:31.720 to look good. It's gonna hinder the whole team. So 1:09:31.800 --> 1:09:34.160 you need to find again, it's it's a fine balance, 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:38.280 and I think Luke's one of Luke's best skills that 1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:41.120 we was just to find. You know, everything he did 1:09:41.320 --> 1:09:43.360 was you know, from the communication to the players to 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:47.360 you know, these little things. He was absolutely unbelievable out 1:09:47.360 --> 1:09:47.639 of ten. 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:53.040 So if somebody said, hey, team chemistry and partner chemistry 1:09:53.240 --> 1:09:56.160 is a massive factor, would you be more inclined to 1:09:56.240 --> 1:09:58.519 roll your eyes at that a little bit? Or no, that, hey, 1:09:58.520 --> 1:10:01.360 there is some real credence to the chemistry that those 1:10:01.400 --> 1:10:02.040 two players had. 1:10:02.120 --> 1:10:05.040 No. Definitely, definitely. If you like to play with a 1:10:05.080 --> 1:10:07.519 certain player and you're friends with him and you feel 1:10:07.560 --> 1:10:10.680 like he brings out the best of you, great, But 1:10:10.720 --> 1:10:13.559 then again, I want to also see that the data 1:10:13.600 --> 1:10:16.559 doesn't say that or you're you know, out of one 1:10:16.560 --> 1:10:19.800 handle and twenty possible pairings, or so that you're not 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:23.160 the one hundred and fifteenth possible pairing. So you know, 1:10:23.240 --> 1:10:26.879 within certain limits, Yes, you try and accommodate the players, 1:10:26.920 --> 1:10:29.000 you speak to them. But I think what we did 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:31.720 is we tried we started to look at the pairings 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:35.000 very very early. We started look, started to talk with 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:38.400 the players extremely early. So when we got to Rome, 1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:41.479 everyone knew exactly what was going to happen, and there 1:10:41.560 --> 1:10:45.640 was no you know, no last minute guessing or no improvisation. 1:10:45.720 --> 1:10:47.760 I mean it took us every day. It took us 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:52.160 literally five minutes to hand in the pairings simply because 1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:54.680 we knew exactly what we were doing and it was 1:10:55.000 --> 1:10:58.200 pretty simple and straightforward. There was a lot of preparation. 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:00.960 I mean, the weeks before we're very easy. I think 1:11:01.000 --> 1:11:03.000 I couldn't make a cup for like a month before. 1:11:03.400 --> 1:11:05.160 It was like, you know, trying to do this, try 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:07.200 to solve the pay it's time to speak with the players, 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:09.439 trying to speak with Luke. You know, we were going 1:11:09.479 --> 1:11:13.360 to dinner with Luke pretty much every night. It was 1:11:13.400 --> 1:11:15.519 a lot of hard work before and then once you 1:11:15.920 --> 1:11:18.880 once you get to the weekend of the Ryder Cup, 1:11:19.479 --> 1:11:21.640 hopefully most of your work is done and you just 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:24.599 you know, see the players play and play. Well. 1:11:25.720 --> 1:11:27.559 Yeah, I want to drill down just into that a 1:11:27.560 --> 1:11:30.080 little bit, on the subject of sticking to the game 1:11:30.120 --> 1:11:33.679 plan versus taking in some of the information that you're seeing. 1:11:33.800 --> 1:11:37.240 So something I think both sides tend to do is 1:11:37.320 --> 1:11:41.720 play everybody on the first day. Maybe not a requirement, 1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:46.000 but tends to happen. How much information do you think 1:11:46.120 --> 1:11:48.599 is contained in what you see from a player in 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:52.280 one of those first opening sessions versus your priors, and hey, 1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:55.320 even if this golfer that we evaluated is probably our 1:11:55.360 --> 1:11:58.280 weakest link, Like if he goes out and crushes it, 1:11:58.760 --> 1:12:00.960 are you saying to yourself, you know what, maybe he 1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:02.400 needs to get a little bit of more run the 1:12:02.479 --> 1:12:04.880 next two days? Are you sticking to that evaluation that 1:12:04.920 --> 1:12:06.479 you had coming in again. 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:08.240 I think it's a it's a bit of a balance 1:12:08.280 --> 1:12:11.960 between the two. But I think golf is a sport 1:12:12.080 --> 1:12:16.080 where when you have a good week, anyone can beat anybody. 1:12:17.240 --> 1:12:20.040 So I tend to say that if someone is playing 1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:23.800 really well and it's confident in that environment, then you 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:26.400 probably have to keep playing with him and find him 1:12:26.400 --> 1:12:28.760 a spot in the you know, in the lineup every day. 1:12:30.320 --> 1:12:32.479 One of the reasons I think why everyone wants to 1:12:32.479 --> 1:12:35.880 play everyone the first day and we'd usually do it, 1:12:35.920 --> 1:12:39.280 the American usually do it, is because the Ryder Cup 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:43.000 itself is a very different environment to your day to 1:12:43.080 --> 1:12:45.759 day tournament. And you want to see how the player 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:48.800 reacting that if you know, someone might not be playing 1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:51.080 very well coming in, but then you know, if you 1:12:51.120 --> 1:12:54.960 think about someone like Poulter or Sergio, they loved that 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:57.759 environment and it didn't really matter how they played before. 1:12:58.560 --> 1:13:00.600 As soon as they got you know, somewhat of a 1:13:00.640 --> 1:13:02.960 decent start on day one, then they were incredible for 1:13:03.000 --> 1:13:06.280 the whole week. Other players might be opposite. You might 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:09.639 have a player who is playing great coming in and 1:13:09.680 --> 1:13:12.439 then it just doesn't feel comfortable in that environment where 1:13:12.479 --> 1:13:15.760 everyone shouts and every you know, basically every golf every 1:13:15.800 --> 1:13:18.240 golf shot feels like it's the Sunday of a Major 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:22.080 down the last hole, so you get players are reacting 1:13:22.120 --> 1:13:24.280 a bit differently, and if there's no history in it, 1:13:25.120 --> 1:13:27.679 you want to see how they play. And I think 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:30.759 that's the biggest reason why you try and play everyone 1:13:30.840 --> 1:13:32.840 on day one and you know, and then you go 1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:33.760 from there a little bit. 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:37.080 Multiple different directions you can go with this question, but 1:13:37.640 --> 1:13:42.840 does team Does experience in past team events matter? Right? 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:45.400 Because I think you often hear, hey, well this player 1:13:45.439 --> 1:13:48.600 has a good record or solid strokes gained, right, that 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:50.439 would be a better way to look at it. In 1:13:50.800 --> 1:13:53.519 a Ryder Cup environment or in a President's Cup environment. 1:13:53.760 --> 1:13:56.120 But like let's say you have player A who has 1:13:56.160 --> 1:13:59.479 a little bit of experience there is maybe the same age, 1:13:59.800 --> 1:14:02.960 but confers are twenty seven. One is never played in 1:14:02.960 --> 1:14:05.840 that environment, so it's an unknown one has played before. 1:14:07.200 --> 1:14:09.680 How do you think about how that could break the 1:14:09.760 --> 1:14:12.040 tire or work in one's favorite versus the other, Because 1:14:12.200 --> 1:14:14.280 then if you don't take the guy who's never played before, 1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:16.360 two years later you might have the same situation again 1:14:16.360 --> 1:14:18.040 where you might be holding against him that he hasn't 1:14:18.080 --> 1:14:19.320 had any team success. 1:14:19.600 --> 1:14:22.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Again, it's it's 1:14:22.960 --> 1:14:25.479 a fine line with these things. You have sometimes go 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:29.840 a little bit with your gut instinct. But also, you know, 1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:32.439 I'm not a big believer in you know, someone that 1:14:32.640 --> 1:14:35.519 has a great Raither Cappa record or a great President's 1:14:35.560 --> 1:14:39.120 Caupa record or whatever, because of that, he's going to 1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:41.439 play well in the next one. Because again, mesh play 1:14:42.280 --> 1:14:45.559 golf is a fickle sport. Mesh play is a bit 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:47.439 of a I'm not saying a lottery, but it's like 1:14:47.560 --> 1:14:50.360 it's even it's different to seventy two hole stock play. 1:14:52.520 --> 1:14:55.920 It's very difficult I mean, the data semple is so small, 1:14:56.720 --> 1:14:59.439 and you might have a great record because you know, 1:14:59.520 --> 1:15:02.120 you play against someone that you know was just having 1:15:02.120 --> 1:15:03.639 a bad day and all of a sudden you get 1:15:03.640 --> 1:15:06.479 a point. But you might have been the second worldst 1:15:06.479 --> 1:15:08.680 player on your team and you still you get a point. 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:11.479 So I'm not a big believer in you know, your 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:14.680 your previous record. I'm more a believer on how you've 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:17.760 been playing recently and how you've been playing on that 1:15:17.880 --> 1:15:20.519 single week, to be honest without mentioning it. 1:15:20.600 --> 1:15:22.760 Yeah, that's one question I had for you. That's one 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:26.000 question I have for you. We talk about this cocktail 1:15:26.120 --> 1:15:28.680 of all the optimal pairings and who do they get 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:31.120 along with. Do you think that a player's current form 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:34.280 at this point is an underrated part of the puzzle 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:36.479 from the way that people talk about it, just straight 1:15:36.560 --> 1:15:37.439 up how they're playing. 1:15:39.439 --> 1:15:43.639 Yes and no. Yes, it's undrelated for sure, because people think, oh, 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:48.599 you know, player A has an unbelievable President's Cup record, 1:15:48.680 --> 1:15:52.720 and you know this pairing has been you know, almost unbeatable, 1:15:53.720 --> 1:15:56.800 so we should play them no matter what. And it 1:15:56.840 --> 1:15:58.519 doesn't really work that way. I think. 1:16:00.920 --> 1:16:02.960 Jordan speaks and Justin Thomas, you don't have to react 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:03.160 to that. 1:16:03.880 --> 1:16:07.680 No, no, no, not necessarily. Justin Thomas. I mean he 1:16:07.680 --> 1:16:10.559 he didn't play in the first morning in Rome, and 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:13.920 so you know, we still won four matches. So maybe 1:16:13.960 --> 1:16:16.320 if he had played, we wouldn't we wouldn't have one 1:16:16.360 --> 1:16:23.080 for I don't know, so yeah, I think again it's 1:16:24.400 --> 1:16:26.920 it's a very fine balance between all these things, and 1:16:27.040 --> 1:16:29.160 you know, sometimes again you have to be lucky, because 1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:33.200 I mean, everything looked it looked like we were geniuses 1:16:33.200 --> 1:16:35.599 in Rome because we decided to start with four songs, 1:16:35.680 --> 1:16:37.760 because we set up the golf force in a certain way. 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.080 But then again, maybe Victor doesn't chip in at the 1:16:41.120 --> 1:16:44.559 first and then we lose that foursome, we lose another one. 1:16:44.600 --> 1:16:46.840 It's too old after the first the first morning, and 1:16:46.880 --> 1:16:50.600 it's a completely different Rider Cup. So you know, sometimes 1:16:50.640 --> 1:16:54.439 again it's it's fine lines. It's you try and shift 1:16:54.479 --> 1:16:56.679 the odds as much as you can in your favor, 1:16:57.439 --> 1:16:58.960 but there's only so much you can do. And at 1:16:59.000 --> 1:17:01.160 the end of the day, you know, a player having 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:03.760 a good day or a bad day can turn the 1:17:03.760 --> 1:17:04.719 tables pretty easily. 1:17:05.479 --> 1:17:09.040 This is a complete hypothetical and definitely not happening in 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:12.200 twenty twenty five, Eduardo, if a player was the captain 1:17:12.560 --> 1:17:14.960 and playing well enough to be on the team, do 1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:17.880 you think it is possible to succeed in both roles 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:20.600 at the same time, that you could be both a 1:17:21.120 --> 1:17:24.600 captain making the decisions and a successful member playing on 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:27.320 the ryder cut not that that's the scenario this upcoming. 1:17:27.000 --> 1:17:28.760 I think so. I think it would be a fantastic 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:34.160 It would be a fantastic way to go about the week. 1:17:34.800 --> 1:17:36.800 Are you saying that from the perspective of somebody who 1:17:36.800 --> 1:17:38.479 wants team you're up to win or do you mean 1:17:38.520 --> 1:17:39.840 that sincerely. 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:44.160 A bit of both. I think it would be something 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:48.519 unheard of, and you know, it'd be a first and 1:17:48.680 --> 1:17:50.599 that never happened before, I think in an Eider Cup. 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:55.360 So I would be very keen to see Keigan, you know, 1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:59.960 playing and being a captain. I think he could. Honestly, 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:02.240 I think he could do. He could do a good job. 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:08.360 It's just it's probably more difficult, yes, but you know, 1:18:08.840 --> 1:18:11.400 I mean, you know, deep down I'm hoping he makes 1:18:11.400 --> 1:18:13.960 the team and you know, see what happens. 1:18:14.400 --> 1:18:16.800 All I want to ask you two more questions. One 1:18:16.880 --> 1:18:20.920 is abstract. If you were tasked with building a Ryder 1:18:20.960 --> 1:18:25.479 Cup venue for the twenty forty one Ryder Cup. Yeah, 1:18:25.840 --> 1:18:30.000 none of probably none of the active players or very 1:18:30.000 --> 1:18:32.200 few of them would also be who we know of 1:18:32.280 --> 1:18:36.479 now would be playing fifteen twenty years right now? What 1:18:36.520 --> 1:18:39.120 would that golf course look like? Do you think there 1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:41.760 are reasons to believe that people who grow up in 1:18:41.800 --> 1:18:44.000 Europe might be more accurate, so you'd set it up 1:18:44.000 --> 1:18:46.320 that way? I mean, how do you think about a 1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:47.439 problem like that? 1:18:48.320 --> 1:18:51.040 No, I would, honestly, I will set it up in 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:55.120 a way that he is as neutral as possible and 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:59.240 you cannot really change it too much. Like I would 1:18:59.280 --> 1:19:04.240 love to see on a course where home advantage is 1:19:04.280 --> 1:19:06.759 not well, I think home advantage is big enough because 1:19:06.760 --> 1:19:10.679 of the crowds, and I think they should take away 1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:14.679 the course set up from the home team, to be honest, 1:19:15.240 --> 1:19:18.639 it's something that it can make quite a big difference, 1:19:18.680 --> 1:19:21.880 as it proved in the last few Rither Cups. And 1:19:21.920 --> 1:19:24.519 again I think you know, it's difficult enough to play 1:19:24.560 --> 1:19:29.200 in front of an away crowd that you don't also 1:19:29.240 --> 1:19:31.479 need the golfers to be set up in favor of 1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:33.559 the of the home team. I think they've taken away 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:36.559 quite a few things already. Like in previous years, like 1:19:36.600 --> 1:19:39.559 if I'm talking ten or fifteen years ago, the home 1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:43.240 team could decide which teas they could set the pins. 1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:47.080 Sometimes they were the only one to know the pins 1:19:48.040 --> 1:19:50.120 that they were going to be used. So there was 1:19:50.200 --> 1:19:52.960 obviously too much of an advantage. So now they've taken 1:19:53.000 --> 1:19:56.280 away the t boxes, you cannot choose which one to use, 1:19:56.360 --> 1:19:57.920 whether you want to move up a tea or not. 1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:00.920 You can't do it. You cannot side on the pins. 1:20:01.200 --> 1:20:03.519 We are given the five pins at the beginning of 1:20:03.560 --> 1:20:05.559 the week that they're going to use in the you know, 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:08.400 in all the sessions, but you're not even told this 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:10.680 is the Sunday pin, this is the Friday morning pin. 1:20:10.800 --> 1:20:13.120 You just know the five pins. That's it. And I 1:20:13.120 --> 1:20:15.519 think that's a very good way to do it. And 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:17.439 I would try and do pretty much the same on 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:19.400 the golf So I would build the golf course where 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:22.519 you know, ideally there's only one tea, so that's it. 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:27.080 You can't can't move it, and I would make it, 1:20:27.680 --> 1:20:29.960 you know, a good match play courses in a lot 1:20:29.960 --> 1:20:33.320 of holes where there's like either reachable power fours with 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:37.240 water or you know, reachable part five. You know with 1:20:37.320 --> 1:20:40.920 some penalty involved. I think I think Marcos Simono, I 1:20:40.960 --> 1:20:44.040 think it was a great venue because of the back nine, 1:20:44.040 --> 1:20:46.720 the front line was so and so, and we knew 1:20:46.760 --> 1:20:48.679 that we had a lot of data from the Italian 1:20:48.720 --> 1:20:51.640 opening previous years, and there were not a lot of 1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:55.200 birdies and bogies made on the first eight holes, seven holes, 1:20:55.800 --> 1:20:58.640 and then from the eight all onwards. If you look 1:20:58.680 --> 1:21:04.320 at it, it was either extremely difficult holes or birdie holes, 1:21:04.360 --> 1:21:07.040 but you could easily make a bogie on the same hole. 1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:09.760 There were holes where you could decide to go for 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:11.559 it or to lay up like there was a lot 1:21:11.600 --> 1:21:15.640 of things happening from the eighth all onwards, and I 1:21:15.640 --> 1:21:18.400 think that's a very good trait to have in a 1:21:18.479 --> 1:21:19.200 radical course. 1:21:20.000 --> 1:21:24.480 Well there that would be one that somebody involved in 1:21:24.479 --> 1:21:27.920 informing Team Europe on the course setup, advocating to make 1:21:27.920 --> 1:21:29.639 it more of a neutral setup. I think that's something 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:31.600 that will catch people's attention. Is I think a lot 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.639 of people think that that's gone too far in that direction, 1:21:34.760 --> 1:21:38.719 that maybe the home crowd is enough of an advantage 1:21:38.760 --> 1:21:40.000 in and of its own right. 1:21:40.080 --> 1:21:42.879 So the only thing I would add is that compared 1:21:42.920 --> 1:21:46.360 to again ten or fifteen years ago, the players now 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:50.120 are much more similar, Like there's no there's basically no 1:21:50.200 --> 1:21:53.680 difference in diving distance. There's hardly any difference in diving accuracy. 1:21:54.320 --> 1:21:57.360 You just try and find very small ages and very 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:02.720 small areas where to make gains, So it doesn't make 1:22:02.760 --> 1:22:04.559 as much of a difference as many years ago. But 1:22:04.600 --> 1:22:06.920 also you have a lot more tools now than twenty 1:22:07.000 --> 1:22:09.120 years ago. Like twenty years ago you just knew how 1:22:09.120 --> 1:22:11.400 many failures we're hitting, how many games are we hitting, 1:22:11.439 --> 1:22:14.720 how many paths are we taking. Now we have you 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:17.880 know a lot more information about your own players, the 1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:22.479 opposition players, so you make more informed decision for sure. 1:22:23.000 --> 1:22:24.680 Yeah, I don't want to keep you too long. I 1:22:24.680 --> 1:22:25.960 guess what I was kind of getting at with it. 1:22:26.040 --> 1:22:29.479 Do you think Europeans will be more accurate twenty years 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:33.200 from now? Is the way the European courses are configured 1:22:33.240 --> 1:22:35.880 that the golfers are growing up on and maybe the 1:22:35.960 --> 1:22:38.880 air it being a little windier that you'd expect them 1:22:38.880 --> 1:22:41.479 to play a different style of game, do you you're saying, 1:22:41.600 --> 1:22:43.120 I don't think that's probably going to be true. Like 1:22:43.120 --> 1:22:46.240 you have the Hoyguards, long hitters coming in Ludvig, like 1:22:46.320 --> 1:22:48.320 we're probably going to see pretty similar skill sets that 1:22:48.479 --> 1:22:49.360 your opinion. 1:22:49.560 --> 1:22:51.080 I would say, I think it's going to get more 1:22:51.120 --> 1:22:56.040 and more closer together. And the thing is, most great 1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:58.880 European players, when they grow up, they immediately go to 1:22:58.920 --> 1:23:02.200 college when they're eighty in the US and they learn 1:23:02.280 --> 1:23:05.200 to play the game that is played in the US, which, yeah, 1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:07.479 I take it, it's very different to what we play here. 1:23:07.520 --> 1:23:10.200 Like when I grew up, I played ninety percent of 1:23:10.200 --> 1:23:13.160 my goal from links courses. Well, basically, you have to 1:23:13.240 --> 1:23:16.200 hit it low, hit it straight, doesn't matter how far 1:23:16.240 --> 1:23:17.880 you hit it, and you have to cheapen pat Well, 1:23:18.760 --> 1:23:22.800 and that's like the typical English player. My age is 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:25.280 still you know, it's not long, hits it low and 1:23:25.360 --> 1:23:31.160 chips and Partwell. I think now the good English players 1:23:31.160 --> 1:23:33.639 that are coming on tour, because they've been in college 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:36.080 in the US and because they you know, they understand 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:39.040 that it's a different game as a pearl, they all bombed, 1:23:39.120 --> 1:23:42.240 they all hit it high. It's completely different to how 1:23:42.280 --> 1:23:43.320 it was twenty years ago. 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:46.240 Well, Eduardo, I'm sure we could talk about a lot 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:48.400 of these topics all day. I'll get you out of 1:23:48.439 --> 1:23:51.240 here with this and your unbiased opinion. What is the 1:23:51.280 --> 1:23:54.920 final result to the point value of the twenty twenty 1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:56.120 five Ryder Cup. 1:23:57.000 --> 1:24:00.519 Oh, I'm not going to tell you. I'll tell you this. 1:24:00.560 --> 1:24:03.439 I'll tell you this before the twenty twenty three Ryder Cup. 1:24:05.800 --> 1:24:10.840 I remember Luke asked me, what's your prediction? And I 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.840 said to him, I think I might still have it 1:24:13.840 --> 1:24:15.519 in my pocket money. I said to him, I'm going 1:24:15.560 --> 1:24:17.840 to write it in a small piece of paper. I'm 1:24:17.880 --> 1:24:19.639 going to keep it in my pocket money, and I'm 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:22.240 going to show it to you on the Sunday night 1:24:22.280 --> 1:24:27.439 when we finish and I'm missed by half a point. No, 1:24:28.200 --> 1:24:30.120 you know, I have a prediction for twenty five, but 1:24:30.720 --> 1:24:32.559 I'm not gonna tell you. I can write it down 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:34.040 if you want, or I can send you. I can 1:24:34.040 --> 1:24:35.799 send you a text and then you keep the text 1:24:36.560 --> 1:24:40.400 and then September twenty five you can reveal the text. 1:24:41.120 --> 1:24:43.400 Sounds great. I'm going to hold you to that. Let's 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:43.680 do it. 1:24:44.200 --> 1:24:47.400 Bye, I'll send you a text as weuch perfect. 1:24:47.400 --> 1:24:50.080 Well, Thank you, Eduardo, it's delightful chatting with you. Appreciate 1:24:50.120 --> 1:24:52.280 you coming on the Friday Golf Podcast and love to 1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:52.800 do it again. 1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:56.360 Thank you, Joe, thank you for having me and yeah, 1:24:56.439 --> 1:24:57.880 anytime we can do this again. 1:25:04.760 --> 1:25:08.559 All right, Joseph, great job with that Dodo Mulmari interview. 1:25:08.640 --> 1:25:13.520 That was fascinating stuff. Let's get to recommendations. 1:25:14.920 --> 1:25:19.360 I'm gonna recommend the music of Stgel Simpson, who I've 1:25:19.439 --> 1:25:21.800 kind of gotten into recently, and he's got to for me. 1:25:22.400 --> 1:25:25.600 I didn't get to go to his performance at acl 1:25:25.680 --> 1:25:29.480 Austin City Limits, but I heard not only was that amazing, 1:25:29.560 --> 1:25:32.360 but this tour that he's been on, I'm seeing a 1:25:32.400 --> 1:25:34.679 lot of clips from it on social media. Looks absolutely 1:25:34.680 --> 1:25:37.040 incredible and jealous of anybody who goes. And that's a 1:25:37.080 --> 1:25:42.040 great car road trip soundtrack his new album. I would 1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:44.880 recommend it for a setting like that. So I'm gonna 1:25:44.880 --> 1:25:49.840 recommend Sturgil Simpson. Andy I'm doing a music wreck too, Okay. 1:25:51.040 --> 1:25:54.840 So I had known of this band just through their 1:25:54.880 --> 1:26:00.439 collaborations with Leon Bridges. It's called Krungbin, It's kai Are. 1:26:00.960 --> 1:26:02.880 Let me just spell it for everybody. 1:26:03.479 --> 1:26:05.280 I believe there are Houston, Texas band. 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:10.360 Yeah, khr U A N G B I N. If 1:26:10.400 --> 1:26:16.280 you're like really into guitar, in like like people that 1:26:16.360 --> 1:26:20.000 play the guitar, there's very limited vocals and like you 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:24.920 know that from like Texas Sun, the the kind of 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:28.320 like hit with Leon Bridges. It's a lot different than 1:26:28.320 --> 1:26:31.240 their other music, which is just like it's like super 1:26:31.320 --> 1:26:38.040 guitar having music heavy. I didn't I hadn't listened to 1:26:38.080 --> 1:26:41.320 a ton of them, but then I saw them play 1:26:41.400 --> 1:26:45.599 show and I was like, WHOA really into their music? 1:26:46.320 --> 1:26:50.719 Super talented and excited to see them again and start 1:26:50.760 --> 1:26:53.320 to really dive in. But if you're like into just 1:26:53.360 --> 1:26:57.920 like guitar limited vocals, this is a band to check out. 1:27:09.320 --> 1:27:09.680 All Right. 1:27:09.720 --> 1:27:13.440 That does it for this episode of the Friday Golf Podcast. 1:27:13.720 --> 1:27:17.599 Big thanks to our producer PJ Clark. Thanks PJ for 1:27:17.600 --> 1:27:23.160 putting this together. If you haven't yet, check out Club TF. 1:27:24.040 --> 1:27:27.880 We have a just a ton of stuff going up there. 1:27:28.360 --> 1:27:31.200 We've been adding some more member events, a lot more 1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:35.840 member events, small gathering. I think we'll do a lot 1:27:35.880 --> 1:27:39.559 of those next year. We are not going to be 1:27:39.720 --> 1:27:44.479 we don't really publicize these publicly. They have very few spots, 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:49.000 so you know, it doesn't make sense to publicly put 1:27:49.000 --> 1:27:52.360 them out there on like an event calendar. But we 1:27:52.400 --> 1:27:55.080 are going to have a lot more of those next year. 1:27:55.560 --> 1:27:59.040 If you're a member you just get emailed hey, we're 1:27:59.080 --> 1:28:03.160 we have this setup. So we did some last week 1:28:03.320 --> 1:28:09.200 in northern Michigan. We'll have a couple in the southeast 1:28:09.800 --> 1:28:13.160 around our Old Barnwall event. But we will continue to 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:16.280 add more and more of these as we go, so 1:28:16.840 --> 1:28:19.960 check those out and check out Club TF if you're 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:23.760 not already a member. Big thanks to everybody for supporting us. 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:26.720 The you joined CLUBTFE at the Frida egg dot com 1:28:26.760 --> 1:28:29.280 slash membership, it's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year, 1:28:30.439 --> 1:28:33.960 ten dollars a month and it really helps support us 1:28:34.000 --> 1:28:38.600 and helps us grow. So we will be back on Thursday. 1:28:38.800 --> 1:28:41.000 I think Garrett and I are going to do an 1:28:41.600 --> 1:28:45.200 architecture mail bag and then we also have an interview 1:28:45.640 --> 1:28:50.200 with Jason meersman a one of the one of the 1:28:50.240 --> 1:28:55.320 biggest characters I've met in the Superintendent world. So that'll 1:28:55.360 --> 1:28:58.280 be fun and thanks for listening. 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:03.280 N