WEBVTT - Do Not Worry About Waning Antibodies Reports

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, October. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily Dive

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<v Speaker 1>podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. A

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<v Speaker 1>study out of Britain this week said that people with

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<v Speaker 1>detectable antibodies for coronavirus fell about over a period of

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<v Speaker 1>three months over the summer, calling in a question how

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<v Speaker 1>long immunity lasts. But health experts say this is not

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<v Speaker 1>a cause to worry. Anybody's tend to wane over time, naturally.

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<v Speaker 1>A Porva Mondavilli, reporter at The New York Times joins

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<v Speaker 1>us for what to know about this anybody's study? Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for joining us, Apporva, thanks for having me. What did

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<v Speaker 1>you talk about this English study that we found out

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<v Speaker 1>about earlier this week that showed that the number of

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<v Speaker 1>people that had COVID nineteen antibodies declined over a period

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<v Speaker 1>of time over the summer that they were studying this,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, it calls into questions about long lasting

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<v Speaker 1>immunity from further infection. It's something that we haven't been

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<v Speaker 1>able to really pinpoint yet. You know, how long are

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<v Speaker 1>you immune from getting COVID nineteen after you were cover

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<v Speaker 1>from it? But a lot of experts said these worries

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<v Speaker 1>are overblown. This is actually something that happens all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>When we recover. Antibodies tend to go away a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's other mechanisms in the body that keep our

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<v Speaker 1>hopes of not being reinfected alive. So apport but tell

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<v Speaker 1>us a little bit more about what we know about

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<v Speaker 1>the study and then what the experts are saying about it. First,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say, you know, what you said is

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely right, that the study is not something to worry about.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's start from there. These British researchers have been

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<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out how many people in the population

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<v Speaker 1>are exposed to the virus, and so they've been sending

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<v Speaker 1>out periodically these antibody tests, because the presence of antibodies

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<v Speaker 1>tells you if somebody has been exposed to the virus

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<v Speaker 1>and been infected, even if they didn't have symptoms. So

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<v Speaker 1>they did that a few months ago, and they've done

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<v Speaker 1>it three times over the course of many months. And

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<v Speaker 1>what they found is that from the first time they

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<v Speaker 1>did it to this last one in September, the percent

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<v Speaker 1>of people who tested positive for antibodies dropped from six

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<v Speaker 1>percent to four point eight percent, and that works out

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<v Speaker 1>to something like a drop. So that is what got

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<v Speaker 1>reported and got everybody worried because it read like a

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<v Speaker 1>third of people are losing their antibodies. First of all,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a population based studies, so it wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>same people, so they weren't looking at some set of

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<v Speaker 1>people three months ago and then going back to those

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<v Speaker 1>same people and seeing that they no longer had antibodies.

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<v Speaker 1>This is just a snapshot of people three months ago,

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<v Speaker 1>a new snapshot now. So that aside, it's also not

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<v Speaker 1>very surprising that over time people would lose some antibodies.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's because when your body first encounters a virus

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<v Speaker 1>or bacterium, it makes antibodies because you know, the infection

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<v Speaker 1>is new and it needs all these antibodies to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of fight the virus. But once that immediate infection is gone,

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<v Speaker 1>that those huge levels of antibodies that are produced have

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<v Speaker 1>to go back down, just as a matter of sort

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<v Speaker 1>of physical space. Even in your blood, you can't possibly

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<v Speaker 1>carry high levels of antibodies to everything the virus your

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<v Speaker 1>body has seen. COVID is not the only thing you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to fight for the remainder of your life. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right, and you've probably seen, you know, dozens and

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<v Speaker 1>dozens of rhinoviruses and other seasonal cold coronaviruses, common cold viruses, measles,

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<v Speaker 1>god knows what you've been exposed to. Write, all of

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<v Speaker 1>those produced auto bodies, and so your blood just can't

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<v Speaker 1>have high levels of all of those. So what happens

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<v Speaker 1>always is that those levels come back down after the

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<v Speaker 1>initial infection and they kind of go to some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of steady state. And there are these memory B cells,

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<v Speaker 1>they're called that B cells are the cells that make

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<v Speaker 1>the anti bodies, and some small number of them are

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<v Speaker 1>these memory cells. They basically remember what the virus looks like,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you ever see that virus again, those memory

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<v Speaker 1>B cells can produce out of bodies pretty quickly, within

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of hours. So there's no need to have

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<v Speaker 1>auto bodies actually in your blood because those B cells

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<v Speaker 1>can make them again if you need them, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>something that the study really didn't show. They didn't look

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<v Speaker 1>at do these will still have immune memory. And also

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<v Speaker 1>there are other cells called T immune cells that can

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<v Speaker 1>also fight the virus. There are TEAM memory cells. Just

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<v Speaker 1>like there are B memory cells. There are T cells

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<v Speaker 1>that can actually destroy the virus. There's all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>basically immune mechanisms at play. We just happened to always

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<v Speaker 1>end up talking about aunti bodies because they're the easiest

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<v Speaker 1>things to measure, but they're far from the only things

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<v Speaker 1>that your body has. Yeah, one of the other interesting

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<v Speaker 1>things about this study is that you mentioned how the

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<v Speaker 1>government was sending people these tests to administer themselves. They

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<v Speaker 1>were fingerprick tests, they weren't blood draw tests or anything

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<v Speaker 1>something that was done in the lab. So the possibility

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<v Speaker 1>that it could have missed somebody with lower antibodies. They

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<v Speaker 1>might have still had some maybe just not at such

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<v Speaker 1>high levels, was part of it. And then they did

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<v Speaker 1>also say that there might have been something about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like asymptomatic people, maybe they didn't have as high an

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<v Speaker 1>antibody count as somebody who had the disease more severely.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. We know that people make all different levels

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<v Speaker 1>of antibodies, just like they're all different kinds of people.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody's immune response is just a little bit different. Some

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<v Speaker 1>people make a ton of anti bodies, and that's usually

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<v Speaker 1>the case if they've been really severely sick. Makes sense, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you have really severe symptoms or your body is fighting

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<v Speaker 1>really hard. So you have a lot of anti bodies,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you just had really mild symptoms, you may

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<v Speaker 1>not have had that many antibodies to begin with. And

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, when you see that decrease that I

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<v Speaker 1>was saying earlier is basically normal, you may go below

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<v Speaker 1>the level that this sort of crude test can pick up.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, these tests are great for looking at population

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<v Speaker 1>white prevalence, but in any one person they can actually

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<v Speaker 1>miss low levels of aunt of bodies. The sensitivity is

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<v Speaker 1>something like which means in a hundred people who have antibodies,

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<v Speaker 1>it would miss sixteen people. So it's not crazy good

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<v Speaker 1>let's say, right, well, it's good to know that we

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<v Speaker 1>can kind of dispel some of this and not worry

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<v Speaker 1>people about thinking there is no elastic immunity at all

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<v Speaker 1>with the coronavirus. You know, as we're still learning so

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<v Speaker 1>much about the virus as we go along, and I

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<v Speaker 1>know we're waiting for vaccines, so there's still a lot

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<v Speaker 1>yet to know about this virus. So but at least

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<v Speaker 1>in the meantime, not nothing to worry about as we

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<v Speaker 1>go through this. We are still learning a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>this virus. But I think it's always important to remember

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<v Speaker 1>that it's a virus. We know about viruses generally, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's really nothing about this virus that is biologically that

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<v Speaker 1>different than other viruses. You know, it's more severe, but

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't behave basically that all that differently than a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of other respiratory viruses. So we know kind of

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<v Speaker 1>what happens. We don't know how long the immunity lasts,

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<v Speaker 1>but guessing from other coronaviruses, probably good chances at least

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<v Speaker 1>a year. So I don't think we should panic quite yet.

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<v Speaker 1>A porva. Manda Velli, reporter at the New York Times,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm lost for Ramirez and this has been reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't forget different today's big news stories. You can check

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<v Speaker 1>me out on the Daily Dive podcast every money through Friday.

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