1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in arid egg Friday 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Egg Friday, Friday, Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: run off the golf course. 6 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the 7 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: Frida Egg Podcast. Today we are live from the Players 8 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 3: Championship and we are joined by Steve Winslav, who's the 9 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 3: vice president of the PGA Tours Design Services and Player Liaison. 10 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: Steve, welcome and. 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Board, thank you. It's good to be here, good to 12 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: be here with you. 13 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so big week for you, obviously with the changes 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: that one of you know, America's most iconic and memorable 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: golf courses. You know, the big changes are the twelfth hole, 16 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 3: and then there's some other small subtle changes and you know, 17 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: completely new greens, green surfaces. But first, I think a 18 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: lot of people would love to hear a little bit 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 3: about your background. 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: Sure Landscape Architecture, University of Georgia been here with the 21 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: with the PGA Tour now for twenty years. Originally started 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: with the tpc's development of the tPCS and still still 23 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: work very actively with the tPCS, but have evolved more 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: into PGA tour side and sanctioned events and working on 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: golf course modifications, significant golf course modifications basically any PGA 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: tour sanction venue and then new venue assessment as well. 27 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 3: So how did you get into the architecture world, like 28 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: you know, was there a moment that said I want 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: to I want to design golf courses? 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: And yeah, the moment was early on actually before I 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: before I went to college, I was doing landscape art, 32 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: was always working outside, working down in South Florida in 33 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: tree farms and bedding plants, horticulture, landscape design, build and 34 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: always felt though I wanted to get into bigger projects 35 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: who were doing more small small projects. I always wanted 36 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: to get into larger scale sites at that same time 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: as when I got introduced to the game of golf, 38 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: sort of sort of late, but I got introduced to 39 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: it at that point in time and started studying it 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: more and realizing that it really tied into sort of 41 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: the path that I was heading on. Once I did 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: switch from aviation into ultimately into landscape architecture and work. 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: When I went to University Georgia, I went specifically to 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: them and said this is what I wanted to try 45 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: to emphasize on a golf course design. They helped me 46 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: cater cater classes towards towards that program and then get 47 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: out did the golf design industry at that point when 48 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: I graduated ninety to sort of going through a smaller 49 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: downturn than than just that. We just went through and 50 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: had a lot of recommendations just to go into golf 51 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: courst construction and the guys I got that advice from 52 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: it was very very influential advice and and today I 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: respect that. And you know, the segment I remember to 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: most was to be a good architect, you got to 55 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: learn how to construct it and and and today I 56 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: still still feel feel very strongly about that. And so 57 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: I got into golf cours construction and ultimately with the 58 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: mindset of getting it into golf courst design and had 59 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: the opportunity to work with some of the top architects 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: in the world at the same time working with the 61 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: tour once that he evolved being able to work with 62 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: a player consultant. We always had a player as a 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: consultant involved with the with the project, so worked as 64 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: a liaison basically between the developer, the architect and the 65 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: player consultant. So I really had the opportunity to grasp 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: a lot of different varieties from different architects and feedback 67 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: from from a lot of great players into the role 68 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: that it's evolved into today. 69 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: So curious as you've worked with all these players, like 70 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: who would you say is kind of like the sharpest 71 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: architectural player mind that maybe doesn't do you know, isn't 72 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: known for doing. 73 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: Any architectural work like that. 74 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: You've come across where you've like been like, wow, you know, 75 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: these these thoughts are really interesting. 76 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: They all had interesting aspects and they and they all 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: got engaged in the in the project, the opportunity to 78 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: work with Lanny Watkins and Myrtle Beach and Lanny was 79 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: working with the FASIO group at that time, and it 80 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: was really a dynamic relationship there to take Lanny's strategic 81 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: mindset and the take that with the strategic and yet 82 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: artful side of the of the FASIO design concept, blend 83 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: that together. And that's really what you named me the 84 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: most about how this how our processes have evolved into 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: the tPCS. He's really taking that blend and and putting 86 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: it together and Lady was just one of one of 87 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: many of some of the some some great players that 88 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: have had the opportunity to work with and that has 89 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: the role evolved and more so into the player liaison. 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: It gives me the opportunity to really meet with all 91 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: our players and and go over and have discussions with 92 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: them about depending golf course modifications or you know, post 93 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: post tournament comments on changes that have been made to 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: utilize that feedback into UH into the next project. However 95 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: it comes about mm hmm. 96 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: I think that you know, there's some younger guys that 97 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: are getting into the architecture earlier. 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: You know, you've got Zach Blair who's really into it. 99 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: And then you know George Speet's got the nine at 100 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: the par three course at ut that's going in. So 101 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: it's it's refreshing seas. You know, it's some younger guys 102 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: getting into the I really. 103 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just found out about I just read about 104 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: Zach Blair. I haven't I haven't spoken to Zach yet, 105 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: but I just read about his his interest in the 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: little course that I think he's thinking about working on 107 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: back home Utah. I think it was which I found 108 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: very very unamoring the first time I've I've heard about that. 109 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you got you got to talk to him. 110 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: He's very passionate, he's got a lot of you know, 111 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: good good ideas and. 112 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely it's uh, he's he's a he's a friend. 113 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: Of the pod absolutely, and Jeff Ogilvie is also, I 114 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: think a brilliant mind from a from a golf architect standpoint. Uh, 115 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: Who's who's having the opportunity now to to begin expressing 116 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: himself in the design world with his team. I think 117 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: he's assembled a great team of of guys surrounding him 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: as well and looking forward to seeing more of their 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: work at some point. 120 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 121 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Mike Clayton, we had on He's A. 122 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: He's he's one of my one of my favorite favorite 123 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: guys that talk. 124 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: How can you how can you not like Mike? 125 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, that perfect segue with Mike Clayton is you know, 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 3: talking about technology and you know, maybe that could be 127 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: some of the impetus to the changes that at Sawgrass 128 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: beyond the major one being twelve, but some distance lengthening. 129 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: You know, when I first walked around it, I was thinking, Hey, 130 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: this golf course, like you know, it's it's lengthy and 131 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 3: it's being a more bonders. But the more I thought 132 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 3: about it, it's like when it originally was designed, it 133 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: didn't take driver out of anybody's hands. 134 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: So is that you know, some of the lengthening. 135 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: Efforts kind of where you know, putting driver back in 136 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: play for the longer hitters. 137 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's an element that we 138 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: that we look at, but not the emphasis. I mean 139 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: the emphasis about the emphasis of this golf course in 140 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: this tournament and really the elements of Pete Dye into 141 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: the strategy of the golf course really is and I 142 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: think you hear it from the players. Is it it 143 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: forces a player really to to be on beyond with 144 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: basically all elements of the game, from driving to to 145 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: their approach shot proximity to you know, their scrambling ability 146 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: around the greens and putting obviously get in the hole. 147 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: It's and it's yes, has has driver probably has driver 148 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: been you know, taken away now as the technology has 149 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: changed in certain golf holes, Sure it has, but we 150 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: look at that and still say, though, how has the 151 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: golf hole changed? Has it changed significantly negatively due to that? 152 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: And if it has, then we'll look at that further. 153 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: If it hasn't, then we just still let let the 154 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: golf hole play out the way it's been designed and 155 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: the ways playing today versus you know, maybe the way 156 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: it's playing thirty years ago. Yeah. 157 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's a it's interesting and a 158 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: lot of the die I think die gets such a 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: bad rap, but there's so much strategy in die courses. 160 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people like to just say, like, oh, 161 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: he's a penal architect, But I think the different in 162 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: how much and you're in this role is that you know, 163 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: how much different you know TPC Sawgress was built for professionals, 164 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: so obviously you know, tighter fairways there could be strategy 165 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: and tighter fairways as opposed to if it was a 166 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: regular public like at you know, a public facility that 167 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: was built for public play is built for it, so 168 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: you know, the shorter, the narrower fairways can lead to strategy. 169 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 2: You know, in terms of you know, like how when. 170 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: You work with professionals, how much different is it, you know, 171 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: designing a golf course and making changes for pros rather 172 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 3: than you know, thinking them first rather than public. 173 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's it's different. I mean a lot 174 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: of architects don't they have a back te per se, 175 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: but back to you at the respective club gets little 176 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: use when in this world that that I live in, 177 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's all emphasis on the back to you. 178 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: I can tell you how many times I make site 179 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: visits and we start walking around with a group and 180 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: we start looking at tea's and all of a sudden 181 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: there's vistas or whatever you can't necessarily see because that 182 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: tea hasn't really been been used a lot. So it 183 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: starts there. And uh, but yeah, I mean you look 184 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: at Pete Dye and what Pete dies about. He's about angles, 185 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: and the angles then are emphasized by a narrowing of 186 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: the fairways, not necessarily from a horizontal standpoint. Yeah, to 187 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 1: some of you, it is horizontal because there's a smaller percentage 188 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: of whatever's there is really the effective zone to take 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: advantage on your on your second shot. You know that 190 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: if you stray off to a certain other side, it's 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: going to give you an undesired line into the into 192 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: the green. And that's that's really some of the some 193 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: of the basic strategy to him. So it's this was 194 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: a tree line you know, this is a forested site 195 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,599 Speaker 1: per se, So he's used the trees, you know, in 196 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: a similar manner as he used them at Harbor Town. 197 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: Not as narrow and scale as Harbor Town it is, 198 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: but there's some there's some you know similarities between between 199 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: here and and Harbor Town and the use of the trees, 200 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: and you know, you see some of the set up. 201 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: This year, we tried to emphasize a little bit more 202 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: of the use of the trees by having less primary 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: rough and having some cases no primary rough between between 204 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: faaraway and groups of trees. For instance, side of one 205 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: and right side of eleven. The right side of six, 206 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: you'll see there's no primary rough now between fair away 207 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: and pine stronger and groups of trees, to help try 208 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: to utilize that in the ground contours, you know, to 209 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: emphasize some of that strategy. 210 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, Eleven's is like forty six yards wide that I mean, 211 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: it's got some really good width. I mean, I grew 212 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 3: up playing a really strategic Pete Die course in South Florida, 213 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 3: and something I have learned over like you know, hundreds 214 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: of rounds playing there was that you know, if you 215 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: take that aggressive line and take on the risk your 216 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: reward and you have a much but every notch you 217 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: go away from the that that line he wants you 218 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: to take on. Every notch you go away, that second 219 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: shot becomes so much tougher. 220 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: But I think one of the unique things is that 221 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: with designing. 222 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 3: For professional players, the ego and the mentality of like, 223 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 3: if I have a clear shot in the fair way, 224 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: like the shot it's right there, and I think I 225 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: can hit it, but your margin for error just is 226 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: so small. 227 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: And I think that's one. 228 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,119 Speaker 3: Of the beauties of Stackgrass is that it's it's a constant, 229 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 3: you know, kind of battle and getting you know, a 230 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 3: professional to aim, you know, twenty yards left of the 231 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: flag with when he's right in the middle of the 232 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: fairway is a tough thing. 233 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And that's and that's what they've learned 234 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: about the nuances of this place. And I listened to 235 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: some of the questions Q and A with some of 236 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: our players about you know, some of the younger players 237 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: come out here and playing this for the first time 238 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: or second or third time, and how much of a 239 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: chance did they have out here. There's a lot of 240 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: nuances to it. They come in with game obviously, but 241 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuances to this golf course to 242 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: be learned, you know, when whether they learn it the 243 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: first go around or whether it takes them a few 244 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: more go arounds to understand the nuances, they're definitely out there. 245 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: You know, we tried to do something. You know, that's 246 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: some of what we ultimately tried to do into the 247 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: end of the readis onto the twelfth hole as well. 248 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of what you just talked about. 249 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: So let's let's talk about twelve. It's the it's like 250 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 3: the star of the show. So you took a you know, 251 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: a hole they felt a lot of people felt was 252 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 3: just kind of a you know, it was a lapse 253 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: in the in the tournament and you you know, everybody 254 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 3: loves these short driveable par fours and you've. 255 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: Turned it in. 256 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 3: It's got a lot of different yardages that can play 257 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: and you know, they we'll put a we'll put some 258 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: photos of the twelfth in the into the podcast bio. 259 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 3: But you know, the narrow layup area if you're gonna 260 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 3: lay up, and then a green that's got a lot 261 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: of contour, a lot of different pins, and you know 262 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: there's water down the left side of a bunk a 263 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 3: waste like bunker down the left and then uh, there's 264 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: nothing good right if you bail. So tell tell us 265 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: a little bit about, you know what, how you kind 266 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: of went about, you know, building the hole. 267 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: Sure, it started several years ago, as we we always do, 268 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: and we just we always evaluate as many aspects of 269 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: the tournament as we can, and in this case here 270 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: looking at the competitive aspect and looking at the twelfth hole, 271 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: it's just from what it was, you know, thirty five 272 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: years ago to what it is today. There isn't really 273 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: a lot of thought and or intimidation per se on 274 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: the t shot as there was originally. At the same time, 275 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: we were looking for opportunities to increase the scoring mobility 276 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: some fan excitement earlier into the back nine sequence. We 277 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: already have it, you know, sixteen seventeen eighteen, it's there. 278 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: So we looked at for ways was there an opportunity 279 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: earlier on the back nine, and we gravitated to the 280 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: twelfth hole. So what you see today out there as 281 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: a product of there's a lot more fan enhancement opportunities 282 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: out there is there's a one hundred and eighty degree 283 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: amphitheater now around the twelfth green. You know there's a 284 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: spectator now now right of twelve green. You have viewing 285 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: now for the thirteenth hole as well. The tea box 286 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: selection where we were put side of the tee took 287 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: advantage of an existing spectator mound along the fourteenth hole 288 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: on the right side of fourteen that really wasn't taking 289 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: advantage of before. So now we've got plenty of viewing 290 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: room behind the twelve tee. But strategically, as you said, 291 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: it is a fairly narrow fairway. It's about a twenty 292 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: eight yard wide fairway. It slopes left to right, fairway 293 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: bunker left, trees to the right, and that slope then 294 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: is just magnified by a landform, a tribute to the 295 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: old landform that was here. It used to be a 296 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: large landform on the left side of the golf hole 297 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: that was between the tea and the green. That landform 298 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: went down that's now where the fairway bunker is. But 299 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: we took that element and repositioned it on the right 300 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: side through the fairway. So as a as a person 301 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: choosing to not go for the grain in two excuse me, 302 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: a green on their drive is laying up. They're hitting 303 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: roughly two and twenty yard tee shot. What we tried 304 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: to do was narrow the fairway effectively by having really 305 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: the emphasis of the of that layup be on the 306 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: left half of the fairway. As the landform that I'm 307 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: referring to is every yard you go right of center, 308 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: the right a yard of the right part of the 309 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: green basically becomes hidden. 310 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: Yep. 311 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: And so the further right your tee shot drifts on 312 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: that layup, you could be totally obscured into the green 313 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: and see no surface. You see flag or flagstick, but 314 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: may not see any surface with water left and a 315 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: green sloping right to left. 316 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I was walking it. 317 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: And if you if you bail right in the pins 318 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 3: back right, I mean you've got no angle, You've got 319 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: the tree that kind of on the right edge of 320 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: the green, and then you and then you can't see anything. 321 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: So it really, you know, it asks for the valiant 322 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: a row of play. So so let's let's hear where 323 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 3: where are you bailing? 324 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: If you if you're if you're a pro and and 325 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: you you you're you need to bail, Like, what what's 326 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: your play? 327 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: Well, that's what they're that's what they're still figuring out 328 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: out there right now, you know, you know they're looking 329 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: at the right side of the green. There's there's twelve 330 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: yards right of the green of closely own area. It's 331 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 1: got some contour to it. There's a pop bunker right 332 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: of the green, two more further right of the green. 333 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: But you know, the the guys are trying to figure 334 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: out that that nuance. You know, the the challenge that 335 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: we try to place and is designing a green complex 336 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: that's that can defend as much as possible a wedge 337 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: from eighty to one hundred yards of the guy not 338 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: going for it, but at the same time trying to 339 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: make it receptive enough for player choosing to go for 340 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: it with whether it's driver or a three wood or 341 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: whatever club that that may be. That's that's really one 342 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: of the biggest challenges. And finding a balance between that 343 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: those elements is we'll see where we see where we 344 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: landed in that in that balance. But yeah, the the guys, 345 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: guys don't want to be far right because far right 346 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: there they're up on landforms up above the green and 347 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: rough grass pitching to a green running away from them. 348 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: So they know, you know, where's the miss, Well, there 349 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: is miss area to the right. They gotta be they 350 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: gotta know that there's certain pins that they can probably 351 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: get to, and there's certain pins are gonna be challenging 352 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: to get to from that right hand side. Or do 353 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: I stay short and just end up out try to 354 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: stay up out in the approach and then try to 355 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: pitch your chip into various whole locations, or would I 356 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: go further back so money options for them to take on. 357 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 3: Uh So the left side falls off and you know 358 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 3: if you if you're a little too far left, it's 359 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 3: you're you're gonna probably get wet, which I think. You know, 360 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 3: it's a short hole. You gotta it's got to have 361 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: some spice to it. You know, there's got to be 362 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: And uh, I'm curious, you know, if you know, like 363 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 3: how much area in that fair away? Would you say 364 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 3: you have to like what you know, if it's firm 365 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 3: and fast, like what half of that fair away if 366 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: you hit is there a distinct fall off point? 367 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it. You know, the approach slopes right 368 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: to left. There's a lot of right to left going 369 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: on out there. There's a little portion in the green 370 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: that does slope to the right to help to set 371 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: up the back right hole location and even defend the 372 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: front right hole location. But the right half of the approach, 373 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: whatever that wid is, the right half of that approach 374 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: is usable for a player hitting a draw in there. 375 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: It depends on the really depends on the trajectory of 376 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: that draw and you know, and how much spin there 377 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: is to it. But you gotta favor the right half 378 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: of the approach. The more that ball drifts to the left, 379 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: the more that shot should have more of a cut 380 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: to it to try to hold the slope because it 381 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: does start moving moving to the left. But part of 382 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: the feedback that we got them going back to the 383 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: water hazard from a minute, you know, Pete Die has 384 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: been consulted throughout this entire process. I've spent a lot 385 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: of time with him here on property a few years 386 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: ago when we were going through the initial conceptual phases 387 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: and then a lot just through a lot of personal 388 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: consultation with them and the keeping them updating where we 389 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: are throughout this construction process. The first element really was 390 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: the addition of the water hazard, and and that was 391 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: how does the water relate to the green? You know, 392 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: does is it right on the green or or is 393 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: it offset from the green, which right now we're seven 394 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: eight yards offset left of the green. But then when 395 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: we started engaging our our players, our player directors that 396 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: are on our board and are some past champions, you know, 397 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: we got some feedback about drop. You know, if a 398 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: player enters the water hazard, well where they get where 399 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: they where are you gonna be able to drop from them? 400 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: And so we oriented the water hazard as it as 401 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: it moves towards the tee away from the green, the 402 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: water hazard actually moves away from the line of play 403 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: further to the left, thus facilitating the opportunity for a 404 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: player to drop in a closer proximity to the green, 405 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: assuming he just slightly drifted offline and entered entered the 406 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: hazard closely. So then he drops in three and he 407 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: can still four drops in two and has an opportunity 408 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: to to still still get up and down for park. 409 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: And that was part of that thought process that we 410 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: went into with this is uh you know, yeah, there's 411 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: a penalty shot, but yet there's still an opportunity to 412 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: to walk away with the four. 413 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 3: It's interesting the hero play is the is the cut. 414 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: There's an ultimate hero play because of the dry. 415 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: To take it over to hazard a little bit. Yeah, 416 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: it started towards the hazard. 417 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 3: The draw is safer, but it's that I mean, that's 418 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: a harder shot to hit because. 419 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 2: Of the slope, and you know, you lose a lot. 420 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: But like the real hero play is is that high 421 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 3: cut over the water. 422 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 2: It is full, it favors the bolt. 423 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: And our and our winds are typically out of the east, 424 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: which is right to left on this golf hole here 425 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: or so if they if they are hitting a cut 426 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: and you know they're holding it up a little bit 427 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: under the wind and hopefully it's landing software m hm. 428 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: So you know, I'd love to talk a little bit 429 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 3: about how you guys have all this plethora of data 430 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: in the shot link data, Like how much does that 431 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: use when you guys are looking at at making alterations 432 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 3: to you know here in any any TPC. 433 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: Well, it's a tremendous, absolutely tremendous asset and tremendous resource. 434 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: Made a presentation several years ago back to the A 435 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: S g C A about the use of shot link 436 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: and still even in its early infancy stages, but it's 437 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: a tremendous resource that gives us a you know, a 438 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: snapshot stroke trails, uh, where the ball lands and stroke 439 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: trails of how they get from point A to point B, 440 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: probably their way around the golf course, scoring averages, proximity, 441 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: the whole averages, scrambling abilities. It's a it's a great 442 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: it's a great resource and blessed to be able to 443 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: have have that data. And and and I shared that data 444 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: with the other architects when we get involved in other 445 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: modifications UH anywhere, you know, we're hosting PJ Tour events. 446 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: UH shared that data with them and it's been a 447 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: great resource for them as well and a great learning 448 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: tool for them. And yeah, it comes definitely coming to 449 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: play here. We studied, you know, all the other reachable 450 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 1: part fours UH on tour and you know, looked at 451 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: their dats and their data and stats and you know, 452 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: and looked at the elements of them and try to 453 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: figure out which ones we want to incorporate here in 454 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: the twelfth hole. 455 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's it's cool. 456 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 3: I think that's you know, that analytics of going into 457 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 3: architecture is going to be a kind of a big 458 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 3: wave to see. It'll be interesting with all these shot 459 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: tracking apps that are coming up, how that data can 460 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 3: eventually be used for even commonplay architecture. 461 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're you're you're definitely seeing seeing the 462 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: tour player use the data and there's so much analytics 463 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: and mathematics now going into their thought process and players. 464 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: You know, I think we're gonna use you know, go 465 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: back to stats on the twelfth hole. Well okay, well 466 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: you know I know what my stats are normally with 467 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: this club selection from this distance, and so I'm like 468 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: more comfortable with that, or you know, is it worthwhile 469 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: to take on take on take on the risk with it? 470 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: But it really gives us, you know, tremendous resource that 471 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: not a lot of people have have access to. 472 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 2: So I, you know, I want to You're you're a 473 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: busy guy this week. 474 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 3: So I've got a couple of kind of quicker questions 475 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 3: that I'm curious about. 476 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: So if if the tour was going to bring. 477 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: One kind of under the radar that not a lot 478 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: of court people might know about course into the TPC 479 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 3: stable and they said, you're picking it, what course would 480 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 3: it be? 481 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Put me on a spot like that. Oh if I 482 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: can answer that one off the top of my head, 483 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: do you got me on on on that question? I mean, 484 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: there's there's obviously some some some great golf courses out there. 485 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: From from an architectural standpoint that you know, all of 486 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: us in the golf architecture world, you know, study, you know, 487 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: some of the preferences that that that I have are 488 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: some more of the you know, some of the influences 489 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: that that I've had just personally are from the sand Belt. 490 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: A lot of time that I did spend with with 491 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: Mike Layton that he he took me when when I 492 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: first went out there and and studied the sand Belt 493 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: golf courses. That's that's inspired me. So you know, I 494 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: love Vellos, I love Kingston Heath, Royal Melbourne and uh 495 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: yeah sure, you know, kings and Heath would probably be. 496 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 2: One of them. 497 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, the World Cup out there this year, I mean 498 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 3: that place, just the bunkering is. 499 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: Is phenomenal and I like it. I like both kins 500 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: and Heath and Royal Melbourne. They're they're too totally contrasting 501 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: golf courses with the scale of the of the of 502 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: the properties and the scale of the golf holes within 503 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: the properties. Kinks and Heaths more small compact, but yet 504 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: still defends itself pretty well with the tour players of today. 505 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: There are single digits. I think composite winning scores there. 506 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's uh they it's it shows that distances 507 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 3: and you know everything is uh but a. 508 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: Great golf courses. You know, we've hosted President's Cup at 509 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: Roller Melbourne World Cup. 510 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 3: Another one going to the President's Cup, I mean the 511 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 3: International President's Cup. Roster is like really stout the so 512 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 3: uh You've been doing a lot of work in South Korea. 513 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: Rey for is it the c I m B. 514 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: Actually it's a it's a newtory event that will follow 515 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: be the week after CIMB which is in Malaysia. This 516 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: is in South Korea on the island of Jju on 517 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: the southern end of the peninsula. It's the tournament will 518 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: be called the c J Cup at Nine Bridges be 519 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: contested at the Nine Bridges Golf Venue and Jju. 520 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 3: Wellen, So tell us a little bit about what we 521 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 3: can expect from that course. 522 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: Currently, there have been been there since September working with 523 00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: their architect Dave Dale from Golf Plan on Get it Ready. 524 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: It's a it's a beautiful place. Mount Holla is a 525 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: volcano in the in the center of the center of 526 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: this island, and this golf course is sighted up the 527 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: side slopes of the volcano in some very sort of 528 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: mellow sloping land. Dave categorizes the design of the golf 529 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: course sort of a little bit of Scottish Highlands and it's 530 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: got that type of type of feel to it. It's 531 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: up nineteen hundred feet in elevation, so there's some elevation 532 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: to it. The climate really unique micro climate's been working 533 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: there throughout the winter and it's been some pretty harsh 534 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: environments up there, and head down to the airport down 535 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: down at sea level and climate changes one hundred percent, 536 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: so that's net. It's it's a it's a beautiful golf course, 537 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: beautiful setting, a lot of pot bunkers that we're right 538 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: actually right now sort of reinforcing some of thement revetted 539 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: walls actually with a durabunker synthetic turf product which is 540 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: really neat to emphasize that element that they've chose to 541 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: use in the design out there and and and really 542 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: make them pop. So bunting wise be pretty dramatic, and 543 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: it's it's neat. I think the players a players will 544 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: like it. It's a it's a neat place to. 545 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 2: Go and primetime golf, so you'll absolute bit that's I love. 546 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 3: I love events that you get that prime time coverage. 547 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 3: It's it's so much, so fun. So it'll be good 548 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 3: time to showcase the course and your work there. 549 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: Will be good, you know. It's uh, we're really thankful 550 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: for CJ. And then then their sponsorship a ten year 551 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: agreement to play this event over there. 552 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: Uh huh So then uh, you know, Jacksonville, if you 553 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 3: know you were taking sawgrass out for listeners, you know, 554 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 3: where should they play in Jacksonville if they you know, 555 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: if they're complimenting sagrass trip, where where are the gems 556 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: outside here where you would be playing? 557 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: Honest with you, yeah, I haven't played a lot because 558 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: of my traveling schedule around here, but I like, you know, 559 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: there's some there's some neat variety of golf courses out here. 560 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: You've got the World Golf Village golf courses both the 561 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: Slammer and Squire and the Kingdom Bear, two totally unique 562 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,959 Speaker 1: golf course. Obviously, the King of Bears your one opportunity 563 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: to play a collaboration between Nicholas and Palmer, especially now 564 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: and with Palmer's passing, it's a that's a neat legacy. 565 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: And then you've got some old, you know, pretty neat tracks. 566 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: Brentwood used to host the Jacksonville Jacksonville Open decades ago. 567 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: Just some really neat, little little municipal tracks around that 568 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: that are still out there as well. 569 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm going to try and sneak down 570 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 2: to Hyde Park. 571 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: That was the other last one I was getting to say, 572 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: a good Hide park. I haven't played yet. I've been 573 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: here for twenty years and just haven't made my way 574 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: over there. Yeah, come down, I will. Stanley Townson, Absolutely, 575 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: there's some good stuff there that some hidden jewels, especially 576 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: even as you get a little bit further south down 577 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: the coast, there's some some neat hitten jewels like that. 578 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 3: So one of the things that we always do for 579 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: our closing bit is overrated underrated. So I'm gonna give 580 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: you a couple of things. Do you you say overrated 581 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 3: or underrated? 582 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 2: All right? 583 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 3: So we're gonna say the impact of grain on putts 584 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: from the PGA tour player perspective, Oh, it's undert underrated 585 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 3: all right. We will go with pot bunkers. 586 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: From a PGA tour players perspective. They're very effective, So 587 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: I would say. 588 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: Underrated, underrated. All right, we will go with. 589 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: Let's see, we'll say the British Isles courses, you know, 590 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: the brit We'll say the Open, Championship rote of courses, 591 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 3: like if you were doing a trip there, not PGA Tour. 592 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,479 Speaker 2: You know, overrated, underrated. 593 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: It's all good. That's just all good stuff as well 594 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: over there. Yeah, every one of them, I mean, and 595 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: they all get such unique characteristics amongst them all, So 596 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how you can say it's over Yeah, 597 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: it's on everybody's bucket list. It should be if it's not. 598 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 3: HU and then uh, then we'll we'll say with last question, 599 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 3: one TPC course that people. 600 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: Should go see outside of Sawgrass. 601 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: One TPC course, Well, you know you've got I'd say 602 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: you get a toss up between Scottsdale and San Antonio 603 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: and two unique environments. And San Antonio gives you thirty 604 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: six golf holds out there and two unique different types 605 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: of golf courses that you can play in the in 606 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: the same location. You got to Normandy Design, hosts of 607 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: Valero Texas Open, and you got a Pete Die golf 608 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: course there as well, just hosted the champions Store events 609 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: and uh, just totally unique properties. Uh with the with 610 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: the San Antonio vegetation to it. You get normous courses 611 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: sort of down along floodplains and creeks, and but yet 612 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: has almost one hundred feet elevation change as you go 613 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: down the routing and back up the routing. Peace Golf 614 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: Course is sort of set on these on these ridge 615 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: tops and routes out and it's got non returning nines. 616 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: Just has these beautiful vistas of preservation lands surrounding as 617 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: golf holes. Unique unique experience there. 618 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 2: So I'd go San Antonio hill country. 619 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: Hill country. 620 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely, That's how I used to live in Austin. 621 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: I you know it, it's unbelievably you think of Texas, 622 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 3: it's unbelievably hilly there. 623 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: It is. I worked in I worked in Dallas. I 624 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: was with the a Y Bring for for a little while, 625 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: and uh it's out there, and uh for some opportunity 626 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: to get down to Austin and the whole country is like, wow, 627 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: this is pretty neat. It's it's good, there's good stuff. 628 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: There's a lot of good golfers. 629 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, I uh, well, we're looking forward to 630 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 3: to seeing the changes in action, and you know, thanks 631 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 3: for coming on, and and uh, we'll sure everybody will 632 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 3: have their their opinions. 633 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: You know they will. 634 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: That's a guarantee. 635 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 4: Yea the good you know, Mackenzie used to say, if 636 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 4: if somebody didn't hate it, you know, he wondered what 637 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 4: he did wrong. That's true, I think if you read 638 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 4: that oral like you read back on what happened in 639 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 4: eighty two, like. 640 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: I mean, these guys so similar. 641 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: Think. 642 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of buzz about you know, 643 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 3: people are bad about the left side, but it's like 644 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: what do you want to just. 645 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: Get a free birdie? Like you know, so all right, well, 646 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: thanks so much for coming on. 647 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: Enjoyed it, Thanks for having me, all right 648 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: To confer another