1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, I have a 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Rob Burgess with me. He is the executive director of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Americans for Pharma Reform. You guys all know that I 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: talk a lot about big Pharma on here and what 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: exactly is happening with big Pharma, And then I found 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Rob's information and what he's doing, and I started to 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: kind of like go down that rabbit hole of what 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: he's exposed when it comes to big pharma, and I 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: was like, Wow, this is like way bigger than I thought. 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: So I'm excited because he is right now on a 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: nationwide bus tour called Bust Big Pharma Bus Tour so 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: that people can actually learn about this. But we thought, 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: you know what, the best thing for us is to 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: have you on the podcast, Rob and talk about it 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: right here, and you can tell us everywhere your. 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: Tour is going to go. 17 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: But let's dig into big pharma. Thanks for joining me, 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me to absolutely so your mission is 19 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: to raise awareness of pharma reform. We haven't really talked 20 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: about pharma reform in the past in like all of 21 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: the different ways that big Pharma is connected to education, 22 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: connected to the consumer in a weird way in the 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: United States, that it doesn't happen in any other country, 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: and how that's affecting pharmaceutical sales, but also the cost 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: to Americans versus other countries. 26 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: There's just so much. 27 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: So if you can just kind of dive right in, 28 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: what do you think is the most important part of 29 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: pharma reform? 30 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 3: Sure, thanks for having me, and you're right. Pharma actually 31 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 3: has its reaches throughout so many different aspects of our 32 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: lives right now. And as we've been experiencing a really 33 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 3: terrible economy over the last three and a half years, 34 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: I started doing more and more research about what were 35 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 3: some maybe unhighlighted aspects that we're contributing to that factors. 36 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: And that's when I started realizing things in the pharmaceutical 37 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: space that a lot of Americans might not realize. For example, 38 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 3: we're paying five to seven times more for the same 39 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: prescriptions than the rest of the developed world. We are 40 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 3: subsidizing prescriptions worldwide as American consumers. What we're supposed to 41 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: be doing in this country right Then you have the 42 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: CEOs and the c suites at these pharmaceutical companies making 43 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: seven and eight figure salaries and bonuses on the backs 44 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: of the American consumer while they're having to make decisions, 45 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: do they cut their prescriptions in half, do they even 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: pick up their prescription right or do they pay the 47 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: light bill this month? And those were really things that 48 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: bothered me, and we decided it was time for us 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: to go on a nationwide bus tour. We started in Arizona. 50 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: We've been going for about forty days. We're now here 51 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: in Michigan. In fact, we were just at the University 52 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: of Michigan football game on Saturday. And we find ourselves 53 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: in Macinaw today and we're going to be going to 54 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: go see President Trump later this week. 55 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: What a great place to stop. 56 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: Mcinaw's beautiful and you're here at a great time of year. 57 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: The leaves are just changing. 58 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm jealous that you're up there, But I want to 59 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: get into you said we're paying more than the rest 60 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: of the world. Why, I mean to me, that's totally 61 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: mind blowing. Is it because we have private insurance that 62 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: they just assume we'll pay. 63 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: Are they just. 64 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: Using us to subsidy subsidize the rest of the world. 65 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: What exactly is happening there? 66 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: Part of it is an insurance game where yes, there's 67 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: now a third party validator that they can charge a 68 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: little bit more because they're not charging the consumer directly. 69 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: But more importantly than that, you have to look at 70 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 3: how their revenue is actually being spent. Big pharmasts spent 71 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: more in the last two years on direct to consumer 72 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: advertising on television than they did on research of pharmaceutical drugs. 73 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: They spent more to deliver a message to you as 74 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: a consumer about a medication that you might not have 75 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: the medical training to understand to necessarily know if it 76 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 3: was the right prescription for you, and they spent that 77 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: money and then wrote it off as a tax right off. 78 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: There was a big pharmaceutical company last year that received 79 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: more in tax refunds than they paid in taxes last year. 80 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: That's simply unconscious able here in this country. We need 81 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: to make sure that we're prioritizing the American consumer. We 82 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: need to stop making sure that Americans are making sure 83 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 3: that the same prescription we're paying seventy dollars for is 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: not seven dollars in France. We need to make sure 85 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 3: that there is an approach that American consumers are priced 86 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 3: first in this market, not last. 87 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: Well, these are American companies for the most part, and 88 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: they're doing, and that's how they're getting the tax right 89 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand how can they get a tax right 90 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: off for advertising to consumers? 91 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: How does that even work? 92 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: Well? And again they're looking at the totality of everything 93 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 3: they spent money on. But they're saying that's a legitimate 94 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 3: business expense that you know, it's something that they need 95 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: to go ahead and make sure that they remain profitable 96 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: and that they have profit share and market share and 97 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 3: that their message is getting distributed and so that they 98 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 3: write advertising off. But that's not something that you or 99 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 3: I get to do, right. I don't get to write 100 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: off my vehicle because I drive to work every day. 101 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: Right, that is out well. Also, other countries don't allow 102 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: this advertising. So to me, this is like a double whamming. 103 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Not only do they get to go direct to the consumer, 104 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: but then the consumer pays for it, because if they're 105 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: getting a tax deduction, I mean that's coming from us. 106 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: They're not paying their taxes, so our taxes have to 107 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: fill that in. 108 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: How can that possibly be? 109 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: And to your point earlier, I read something that you 110 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: had put out and your group is working on that 111 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: says that them going direct to the consumer is really 112 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: messing up the consumer's relationship with their medical doctor and 113 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: their medical doctor's ability to actually give them great medical advice. 114 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: Because they see this, they aren't necessarily hearing well. If 115 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: you see one commercial, you're not hearing Okay, well this 116 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: acts this way, but this other medication might be better 117 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: for you. You only hear the benefits, and then you 118 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: have that quick laundry list at the end where you 119 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: hear that and you're like, my gosh, if I take 120 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: this medication, I'm going to die. But the alternative is 121 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: that I'm going to have this terrible rash on my 122 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: elbows and knees. So I'm going to take the medication 123 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: because it has to be the best thing for me. 124 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: But their doctor doesn't get to tell them no, probably 125 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: not because they've heard this ad exactly right. 126 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 3: When you have directed consumer advertising in the pharmaceutical space, 127 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: those ads are produced in they're cut like movies. 128 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 4: Right. 129 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: You get to see this great storyline. Yes, this beautiful 130 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 3: woman walking down the street opening up a bakery or 131 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: a juice shop, and you know, but she wasn't able 132 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: to do it because she had this issue. But this 133 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: one medication allowed her to achieve her American dream. Well, 134 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 3: in the real world, that's not what that looks like, 135 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: and that's not the way it works. Medical doctors, medical 136 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: professionals go to school and they study these medications in depth, 137 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: and they need to know how it's affected by one 138 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 3: medication you're taking versus the other. And as consumers, we 139 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 3: don't have that education, we don't have that necessity of 140 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: knowing what interacts with one another, and so we just 141 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: see the story. We see, you know, that fantasy and 142 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: fairy tale that has been painted for us, and we 143 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: want to participate in it. 144 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: It was funny when I first started working, when I 145 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: was in my twenties, I was working in public relations, 146 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: and all of my friends were working as our prescription 147 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: drug salespeople, and there was like a massive movement of Suddenly, 148 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: this is something I had never heard of before, and 149 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: my friends would spend their days. 150 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: Going from doctor's office to doctor's office. 151 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: Giving free samples, bringing in a lunch, and convincing the 152 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: doctor to push a certain medication. Is that something unique 153 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: to the United States or is that a normal a 154 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: normal situation, because I would think that the doctors would 155 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: be getting the information and they would there would be 156 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: kind of a different way to do this, But this 157 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: would be a weekly meeting where they would expect this 158 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: drug salesperson to come in with a lunch. They would 159 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: have a lunch every single day in their office from 160 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: different drug salespeople, and they would be hawking their newest medication, 161 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: which might not actually be new, as you've pointed out, 162 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: it might just be a tweak to that medication so 163 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: that they can't get a generic right now. 164 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: And I'm not exactly sure how it might work in 165 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 3: different countries, but to some extent, those pharmaceutical reps to 166 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: exist worldwide right now, what they are able to do 167 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: or how they're able to interact it might be changing. 168 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: But that's why we are advocation for the government to 169 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 3: put some guardrails up right. We believe some guardrails towards 170 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: reforms important for exactly what you just mentioned is the 171 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: fact that as these patents are starting to expire, they're 172 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: looking for their most profitable prescriptions, those most profitable drugs, 173 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: and they're going to make an insignificant squeak to that formula. 174 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 4: They're going to do something that does not change the outcome. 175 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: It does not make the medicine better, it does not 176 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: change ultimately anything that has happened while it's been protected 177 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: by patent. But it's going to renew that patent, it's 178 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: going to prevent it from being competed within the free 179 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 3: market by a generic or another outside group. That's something 180 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: we don't think is fair that evergreening patent's process. We 181 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: think that there needs to be guardrails put up around that, saying, hey, 182 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: unless you make a thirty percent change, unless you do 183 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 3: something that actually increases the benefit of your medication, we're 184 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: not going to give you that renewal. And we also 185 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: think that we need to completely reform that direct to 186 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: consumer relationship. You know that these pharmaceutical reps and these 187 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: advertising agencies, they need to do a better job of 188 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: educating just the doctor, right, just the medical professional. They 189 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 3: don't necessarily need to be bringing lunches in to feed 190 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: a staff of sixty when it's only one person actually 191 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: writing on the prescription pad. And so we need to 192 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 3: do a better job of making sure that their money 193 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: is being spent towards a way that encourages more. 194 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 4: Competition in the market place. 195 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 3: They're spending more money on research than they are advertising, 196 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: and they're not talking directly to consumers or individuals that 197 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: can't make an educated, uniform decision for the betterment of 198 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: our health. 199 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: Well, and that's not something that I've argued, is that 200 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: these companies are making a lot of profit, but they 201 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: are the leading developers of new medications out there. 202 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 2: They're the innovators. 203 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: They are putting the money into R and D, and 204 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: the United States has always been the leading innovator of 205 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: the world. But then I'm reading some of the stuff 206 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: that you're putting out, and that's suddenly changing. They're not 207 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: so much innovating as they are just focused on profit. 208 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: And so those that money instead of going to R 209 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: and D is going going into advertising that then they're 210 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: getting that tax break on which why wouldn't you do that? 211 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: You know you're going to be able to continue to 212 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: get the profit. If you put it into R and D, 213 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: it's gone. If you put it into an add and 214 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: you get a tax break, then it's not gone. 215 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 2: You've been able to. 216 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: Recap re rehab some of that money and then you 217 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: can use it to put it into other things and people. 218 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: So you have a massive staff of these pharmaceutical reps 219 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: and they make very good money. I mean, when I 220 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: came out of school, and these guys where my buddy 221 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: is out there doing that, I'm like barely making it, 222 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: and these folks are making a lot of money. And 223 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: then you've got, like you said, these CEOs that are 224 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: bringing in a massive amount of money, and yet people 225 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: can't afford their medications. And so I look at this 226 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: and I think, well, gosh, if you're able to continue 227 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: to push this into the market and bring in new 228 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: consumers because they're going to their doctor and pushing that 229 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: we need this back, we need we need this medication, 230 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: then where is all of the profit going If it's 231 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: not going to lower the drugs, Well. 232 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: It's going through their pockets. Like you said, you can 233 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: see that by how they're treating. 234 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 4: The C suite. 235 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 3: But you know, for a long time, Americans, and specifically 236 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: the American government, has subsidized that research. Right when you 237 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 3: start looking at the negotiations that our government has made 238 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 3: with the pharmaceutical companies for Medicare and Medicaid prescriptions, we 239 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: are funding all that R and D, but at the 240 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 3: same time, we are not receiving the benefit of it 241 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 3: from a cost perspective. Right, we should not be the 242 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: bottom tier of the rum when it comes to how 243 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 3: these prescriptions are priced throughout the world. In fact, there 244 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: was a hearing a few months ago where one of 245 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: the CEOs of a pharmaceutical company was showed the price 246 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: for the same drug over in Europe versus the United States, 247 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 3: and it was a significant cost difference. I think it's 248 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: about five times more here than it was over there 249 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 3: in Europe. And the simple question was are you making 250 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 3: profit off of that same prescription in Europe or are 251 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: you only making profit here in the United States. And 252 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 3: he said, no, we're making profit off of the one 253 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: in Europe as well, so they can afford to go 254 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 3: ahead and have these prescriptions cheaper here at home. But 255 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 3: the system has allowed them to explode those costs and 256 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 3: it has forced us as a consumer to bear that cost. 257 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: And that's something we absolutely need to change. And it 258 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 3: starts by informing people and educating people, just like we 259 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: are here at the bus Big Pharma Bus Tour throughout 260 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 3: Michigan and the rest of the country, and by having 261 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,239 Speaker 3: programs like your show Tutor where you're bringing on experts 262 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: in shedding light right sometimes the best disinfectant. But we 263 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: need to inform the American people about what's exactly happening, 264 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 3: and what they can do to encourage their members of 265 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 3: Congress to take actions. 266 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to say next, is 267 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: that the next step is to have an investigation or 268 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: have Congress hold them accountable. 269 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: Is this a monopoly situation? 270 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: Because I think too often this is a cycle where 271 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: the congressmen or the local elected official they actually are 272 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: getting their funding from Big Pharma, and then that whole 273 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: cycle starts. Well, they're not going to go investigate Big Pharma. 274 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: It's one of their biggest donors. They need to win again, 275 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: they have to win every two years, so they just 276 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: let it keep happening. What is the answer and how 277 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: can is it that it has to come from Congress? 278 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: And is that an investigation or is that Hey, we 279 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: believe that you're running a monopoly because you won't allow 280 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: anybody else to make these drugs. 281 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: Well, they definitely have a monopolistic practice, right, you know, 282 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: that's very apparent, especially when you start looking at that 283 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: evergreen of the patent process. But we think that you know, 284 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: this is going to be a multi year, multi election 285 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 3: cycle process, and so the first thing that we're trying 286 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 3: to do is a raise awareness and your listeners your viewers. 287 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 3: They can go to Americans for Farmer Reform dot com 288 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: or Bustbigpharma dot com. And if we don't have the 289 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: bus in an area where they're going to be and 290 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: they can't have the opportunity to sign their name on 291 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 3: this mobile petition showing their support, they can sign a 292 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 3: virtual version of the bus there on the website so 293 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: that they still participate. The second thing that we need 294 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: to do is we need to encourage members Congress to 295 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 3: sign our petition. The petition's very straightforward. It's saying they're 296 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: going to put the American consumer first, and it's saying 297 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 3: that they're going to put guardrails up around advertising, and 298 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 3: it's going to say that they're going to start pushing 299 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 3: back against the patent process right. And so by doing 300 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 3: those three things, we think that's something that we can 301 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: win on and it does not necessarily alienate quote unquote 302 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 3: Big Pharma from donating to these politicians. It's something that 303 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 3: Big Farma knows are getting away with. And if we 304 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 3: start pulling it back and we start just. 305 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: Do you have many of our congressmen? Do you have 306 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: many of our congressmen and women who have agreed. 307 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 4: We're working on it. 308 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: So the pledge is something that we're playing on rolling 309 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: out this week, and we're going to start trying to 310 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: put it into their hands right away. But again, this 311 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: is something that we don't think is going to be 312 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: decided between now and the end of the election, right 313 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 3: this is going to be a multi year process. 314 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 4: We're in it for the long haul, and it's something that. 315 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: We're going to be continuing to spread this message throughout 316 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: the country in on Capitol Hill, and we don't really 317 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: care about how long it takes us. We're going to 318 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: make sure that our voice is heard in the American 319 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: people's issues and concerns are heard by not only are 320 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: elected officials, but also by far. 321 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 322 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 323 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,359 Speaker 1: So we have some data that during the COVID crisis, 324 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: seven out of ten of the big farm of companies 325 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: were spending more money on sales and marketing than research 326 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: and development. Does that mean that they were personally spending 327 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: more money and that the government was funding R and 328 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: D or is that even with government funding, more money 329 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: was going into talking directly to the consumer then figuring 330 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: out what the next big product should be to combat 331 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: the COVID crisis. 332 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 3: So my understanding from the way that money broke down 333 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: was government was funding the R and D entirely, and 334 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 3: they were taking all the other revenue that they had, 335 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: and instead of pointing it towards R and D or 336 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 3: to help develop some type of vaccine or other type 337 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 3: of tool to combat that pandemic, they were focused on 338 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 3: their payroll, in staffing and advertising to their reach. Because again, 339 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 3: if you remember, we were having multiple versions of a 340 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: COVID vaccine competing against each other, some that was one dose, 341 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 3: some that were multi dose, and they were all out 342 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 3: there competing with doctors in hospitals saying, hey, we're going 343 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: to be the one that you want to prescribe, right, 344 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: and so again it's it's that jocking effort so that 345 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: you know, are you partnered with a certain doctors group 346 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: or a certain hospital group, and you know you know that, Okay, 347 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: Pfizer drugs are the ones that could be the priority 348 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: to be prescribed over Johnson and Johnson drugs. 349 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: So what keeps us safe from the government then stopping 350 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: other medications from being used based on the fact that well, 351 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: we've we've we just sank all this money into research 352 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: and development on these COVID nineteen vaccines, and we want 353 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: people to use those. 354 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: But because you. 355 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: Know, I look back on this and I remember suddenly 356 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: it was like, well, these medications are stopping people who 357 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: are sick from getting sick or dying. And it was 358 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, no, you can't use those. And 359 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: then there was this there were people behind the scenes 360 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: that are saying, oh, they don't want you to use 361 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: that because those are older medications that don't make that 362 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: much money. They've already sunk all the money into R 363 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: and D for these new medications. They want to push 364 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: the public to the new medications. How much of this 365 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: could be the government working behind the scenes to say, hey, yeah, 366 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: you can put out these ads. We'll fund the R 367 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: and D put out these ads, and then we'll stop 368 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: people from actually prescribing these old meds, which in Michigan 369 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: you had your license taken away if you prescribed an 370 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: old med To your point of the doctor isn't allowed 371 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: to make the decisions anymore because you've got other people 372 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: coming in and saying no, no, no, we know better. 373 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: In this case, it wasn't the consumer. I mean, the 374 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: consumer sometimes came into the doctor and the doctor said, hey, 375 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: my hands are tired, I can't give it to you. 376 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: But it wasn't the consumer who was demanding the new 377 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: COVID medication. It was the pharmaceutical companies and the government, 378 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: and in certain cases the medical professional was saying, I 379 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: think I can solve it with this. 380 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: No no, no. If you touch that, your licenses to provoked. 381 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 382 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: So we've seen this across industries, right for a long time, 383 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: and it's something that you have talked about for years. 384 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 3: It is the unaccountable, unelected government bureaucrat who thinks that 385 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: they know how best to run you and your family's 386 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 3: life better than you, your doctor, your teachers. 387 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 4: Right. 388 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: That is completely wrong. So a lot of it starts 389 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: at that federal level, with this revolving door between big 390 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: pharma and the bureaucracy of the FDA. That's something that 391 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: we absolutely need to put a hold on. And really 392 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 3: it's something that you could probably accomplish by saying, if 393 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 3: you start in pharma and come to government, you cannot 394 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 3: then become a lobbyist for pharma again, right, And so 395 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 3: it could be a lobbying band type situation that Congress 396 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 3: puts into effect. On government bureaucrats. But more importantly, I 397 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 3: think the big issue here is the FDA itself. A 398 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 3: lot of people don't realize how much control they actually have, 399 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 3: not only over the approval process of medications and pharmaceutical drugs, 400 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: but also so generics, what gets to hit the market, win, 401 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 3: how quickly can it get rolled out? Where can it 402 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 3: get rolled out? They have so much leanway leeway of 403 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: making these decisions on their own. But the seven heads 404 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: of the independent arms of the FDA are not Senate confirmable. 405 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: They are political appointees, which means your direct representation does 406 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: not have the ability to confirm up and down on 407 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: a yay or nay vote for the person that's in 408 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 3: charge of the arm of the FDA that does pharmaceutical drugs, 409 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 3: for the arm of the FDA that proves tobacco policy, 410 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 3: the arm of the FDA that oversees the food quality systems. 411 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 3: That is all appointed at the politician level, from the 412 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 3: White House down. And so we need to change that 413 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 3: effect too once again. By having our direct representative representatives 414 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 3: have a voice, we now get to hold somebody accountable, 415 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 3: and if something happens at a medication level, we can 416 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: then go to our members of congressation, Hey, you voted 417 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 3: for him. You told us that these the right people 418 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: to make these decisions for us, and look what has happened, 419 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: and that's something we ultimately need a championship. 420 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: Interesting, and I think that this is something that the 421 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: American people are suddenly just kind of becoming aware of 422 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: because we inherently trusted the FDA before, we trusted all 423 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: of these three letter agencies who were out there. Oh, 424 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: they have their best interest in at heart, of course, 425 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: We're just going to blindly trust them. And then I 426 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: think after the pandemic and everything that happened there, people 427 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: started to go, you know, I don't know, I wish 428 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: that we had a little bit more control over our 429 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: own decisions. I wanted to step into antidepressants. I know 430 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: you've worked on profit and professional interests misleading us about antidepressants. 431 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: Go into a little bit about that. 432 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 3: Well, again, I think that this is a situation where 433 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: for so long a certain drug, antidepressants in this case, 434 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 3: have been not only advertised but then hawked so aggressively 435 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 3: on a specific part of the medical community that there's 436 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: all there's almost a feel like they are required to 437 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 3: have this prescription. We have to give this out. This 438 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 3: is just part of the approach to solving the problem. 439 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 3: And then rather than by actually having that conversation patient 440 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 3: by patient. 441 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 4: Right, it might not be the best fit for me. 442 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: I might need to do group therapy, right, I might 443 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: need to take long walks outside in the sun. 444 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 4: Right. 445 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 3: There might be something completely different that I need. But 446 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: because the pharmaceutical companies in the industry have spent so 447 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 3: much time advertising this as the cure, right, this is 448 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: the way to stop. This is the way to change things. 449 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: We have put all of a sudden, all the other 450 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 3: approaches that we have had for generations to the side, 451 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 3: and we said we can rely on chemicals. Now we 452 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 3: can rely on this approach. And that's not necessarily the 453 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 3: best thing that we can be doing for society, whether 454 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 3: it's for adults like us or our children. Right, we 455 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: really need to be making better decisions at the individual 456 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 3: level rather than relying on what a pharmaceutical company or 457 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 3: pharmaceuical rep I was telling us that is industry specific 458 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: or is industry practice. 459 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's certainly this new movement out there that to 460 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: talk about food being medicine. Really how you eat is 461 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: important and how what you eat affects how you behave, 462 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: how you feel, your depression level, your anxiety level, certainly 463 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: your weight. We know that there's been a lot of 464 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: push for ozepic in kids, and that's been kind of shocking. 465 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: I think for a lot of parents, it's like, wait 466 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 2: a minute. 467 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: Now you're going to take my kid and you're going 468 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: to put them on a lifelong medication that had historically 469 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: been for someone who had a disease like diabetes, and 470 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: now you're saying that my child has a disease as well. 471 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: And that uptick in Well, this goes to big pharma 472 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: and big food because I think that a lot of 473 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: the things that are happening in our food industry are 474 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: then pushing people into the pharma industry. 475 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: Oh okay, well this is you. This is your quick 476 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 2: fix for that. 477 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: We've also seen that I think with the antidepressants, is 478 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: like we need a quick fix. This kid is and 479 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: I would say this kind of stimulant drugs too. It's 480 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: like this kid bops and weaves too much in class 481 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: and he's always not paying attention, and this one is 482 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: really struggling with anxiety and too nervous about tests and 483 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: I've seen it in my own life where the doctor 484 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: was like, you know what the best thing is to 485 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: immediately put them on a medication. 486 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: I'm like, no, what are you talking about? 487 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: And I don't think parents historically have pushed back against this, 488 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: but now suddenly parents are saying, wait a minute, you 489 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: tell me what the side effects are, because that long 490 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: list that they read at the end of the commercial 491 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: has some pretty terrifying side effects. Is what my child 492 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: is dealing with right now, worse than what could happen 493 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: if they go on this drug. And some of those 494 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: drugs have permanent side effects. 495 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 3: Permanent, but also on how many of those drugs were 496 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 3: originally developed for another solution. Right, you just mentioned those epics, right, 497 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: that was a diabet. 498 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: That's interesting, right, that was never. 499 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 3: Supposed to deal with weight loss. It just happened to 500 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: be one of the side effects that was mentioned at 501 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: the end. Then they realized, oh, it's much more effective 502 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 3: as a weight loss drug than it ever was as 503 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 3: a diabetes drug. We're gonna go ahead and remarket this right, 504 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 3: We're going to charge more for it now because again 505 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: they realized the side effect something that they didn't want 506 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 3: to happen. Originally was a better exponent, a better cure 507 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 3: than what they initially had solved for. So now they're 508 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 3: remarketing drugs that had completely different R and D applications. 509 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 3: But you're right, some of these side effects are deeply permanent, 510 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 3: and it's something that we need as consumers, and the 511 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: American people need to be saying, how much time are 512 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: you really spending on the R and D. The idea 513 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: should be the more you spend on R and D, 514 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 3: this more you study this, the more you perfect this. 515 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 3: That list should be extremely short. 516 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 4: Right now. 517 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 3: I'm not a scientist and I'm not a chemical engineer, 518 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 3: and I know that that's not always the case, but 519 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: we should not always be rushing to try to get 520 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 3: something on the market just because a competitor has it 521 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 3: on the market. Let's make it better again. That's where 522 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: the free market competition should really come into play, and 523 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: these companies should be asking for that. Make us better, 524 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: make us compete right. Ultimately, the free market is what 525 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: allowed them to thrive in the first place. Big pharma 526 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 3: is where it is today because we created a free 527 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 3: market system that allowed them to compete against each other. 528 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: But now their practices are pushing competition away, and they're 529 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 3: becoming a monopoly. What we need to do is force 530 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: them to compete again. I truly believe prices will drop, 531 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 3: competition will grow, research and science will get better. I 532 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 3: think that we're going to start seeing a better return 533 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: on the investment that we have made as Americans, not 534 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 3: only at the government level, but as the personal level. 535 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: And I think ultimately he could solve a lot of 536 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 3: the problems that we see as a society right now. 537 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 3: But more importantly, it will put the American people first. 538 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because last week we had doctor 539 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: Marty McCarey on and he was talking about the antibiotics 540 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: the kids take, and he said, you know, most of 541 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: these kids are taking antibiotics before age three. And it 542 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: was always the situation where they the parents were being 543 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: told it might not help, but it's not going to 544 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: do harm. And he said, now we've that it actually 545 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: can do harm, and it can be permanent harm, and 546 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: it can change their microbiome of their gut and cause 547 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: all these permanent problems that you have to try to 548 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: then reverse. And he said, and we're not telling people that, 549 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: like we're not telling parents that that side effect is 550 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: like well, this could happen, but you know it probably won't. 551 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: It's something that we should actually discuss and say, does 552 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: the child need an actual antibiotic because they're going to 553 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: get better. We are in a society now where we 554 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: want an instant fixed. My kid has a cold, I 555 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: want them to be fixed. I need an antibiotic. And 556 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: he said, oftentimes parents are pushing to your point. Parents 557 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: are going to the medical professional and saying no, they 558 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: need an antibiotic, and they're like, i'll give you one, 559 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: but they don't really need it, and they're forcing these 560 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: medications that they don't realize are actually harming their child 561 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: in certain ways. And the antidepressants, I'll go to that 562 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: for just a quick second, because when you say there 563 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: are side effects that some people don't realize, sometimes the 564 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: side effects seem harmless. And I have several people in 565 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: my life who have taken antidepressants, and in some cases 566 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: it's been like a you lose a parent or you 567 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: lose a spouse, and it's like, hey, you're only going 568 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: to need to be on this for three months, and 569 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: it's going to get you through those three months. 570 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: But they've had permanent side effects. 571 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: In one of them, which I've had multiple people tell 572 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: me about is profuse sweating. And even after they're off 573 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: of the medication for years, they still have this profuse sweating. 574 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: And you think, okay, well still you got through this 575 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: time period. But today they would tell you it is 576 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: very depressing to have this problem because it's noticeable, it's embarrassing. 577 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: We should know these things before we take these medications. 578 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 4: You're right, we absolutely should. 579 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 3: And there we also need to keep in mind that quick, 580 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: immediate fixes do not always result in long term, permanent fixes. Right, 581 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 3: And so you know what is always immedia. You know, 582 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 3: whether it's an antidepressant, I need three months of help, right, 583 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 3: I'm not strong enough to do it on my own. 584 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 3: I need a little bit of help, or even in 585 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 3: the case i've got a one year old. Right, we're 586 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: in that stage of going to the doctor and being 587 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 3: thrown all these immunizations and you know, you need these 588 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: shots and you. 589 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 4: Need these vaccines. 590 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 3: And it's a lot for a first time parent to 591 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 3: be able to take in and understand. And we hope 592 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 3: my wife and I are looking at her, we hope 593 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 3: we're asking the right questions, right, Well, what's this going 594 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: to do? Is this something that we could weigh on 595 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 3: and consider when he's a little older, right, Because again, 596 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 3: we don't want there to be any developmental issues. We 597 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 3: don't want his health to be affected, we don't want 598 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 3: his growth to be affected. We don't want anything mental 599 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: to happen. And so when you look at all these 600 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: pieces again, it comes back to we have to trust 601 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 3: a medical professional that has spent decades of their lives 602 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 3: studying this. But it also means that as consumers we 603 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: need to be responsible enough to understand that the dangers 604 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 3: that quick blurb at the end of the commercial is 605 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: what we need to be listening to, not to the 606 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 3: fantasy of the fairytale story at the beginning, because in America, 607 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 3: we already have our fairy tale, right. The American dream 608 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 3: is what we're all chasing. None of us are going 609 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: to achieve our American dream because we took a prescription. 610 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 3: We're going to achieve the American dream by standing up, 611 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: coming together, or putting our arms linked together and walking 612 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: towards the horizon together. Right, We're not going to do 613 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: it because we took a pill. 614 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: More with Rob Burgess after this, but first I want 615 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: to tell you about my partners at Saber in these 616 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: uncertain times, rising crime in America's neighborhoods endangers the safety 617 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: of loved ones. Nearly fifty years ago, with just two 618 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty eight dollars their entire savings, the Sabers 619 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: founders set out to make the world a little safer, 620 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: and today Saber is the number one made in the 621 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: USA pepper spray brand, trusted by law enforcement and families 622 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: across America. As a family owned business, they understand the 623 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: importance of protecting your loved ones, introducing the Saber pepper 624 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: projectile launcher. It's a leslethal, fast loading, no requ oil 625 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: solution delivering powerful stopping power up to one hundred and 626 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: seventy five feet. The real advantage even if you miss 627 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: it creates a six foot pepper cloud causing intense sensory 628 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: irritation which can overwhelm anyone in its path, giving you 629 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: and your family the opportunity to protect yourselves and your home. 630 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: But Saber doesn't stop there. In addition to their pepper 631 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: spray and pepper gel, Saber offers stun guns for personal 632 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: protection and bear and mountain lion spray for outdoor adventurers. 633 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: They also provide essential home security items like door security 634 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: bars and door and window alarms for securing your entryways. 635 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: Protect yourself and your family with Sabers full range of 636 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: defense sprays, home security tools, and exclusive launcher bundles. Visit 637 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: Sabre radio dot com or call eight four four eight 638 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: two four safe today. That's eight four four eight two 639 00:30:53,760 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: four safe. Stay tuned for more after this. It's interesting 640 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: because you said this election is not going to solve 641 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: this issue, and I think. 642 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: That you're right. 643 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: It's very It's just we're just at the beginning of 644 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: this where we start to see each campaign talking about 645 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: the price of insulin. 646 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 2: I think that's the one that people recognize. 647 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: It's like, if you don't get this drug, you're you're 648 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: really in trouble because you're going to die if you 649 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: don't have this drug. And so it's the most notable 650 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: that people can go out and say, nobody should have 651 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: insulin kept from them. It's a much bigger problem than insulin. 652 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: We're just focused in on one drug right now, and 653 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: that moves the American heartstrings. Okay, she or he is 654 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: going to lower the cost of one drug. That's fantastic, 655 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: it's not enough. I think that now with RFK out 656 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: there talking about all this stuff and how the pharmaceceutical 657 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: companies have worked for years. 658 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: There is going to have to be reform at the FDA. 659 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: I think it's going to have to be a much 660 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: bigger reform that's going to happen over years. It's probably 661 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: going to take a decade, and it's going to have 662 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: to be something that both whatever side of the aisle 663 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: it is, both sides of the aisle are going to 664 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: have to focus on doing what's best for the health 665 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: of the American people. And I just hope that they will. 666 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: And I appreciate you Rob that you're out there every 667 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: day pushing that. 668 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 3: Well, you're absolutely right, massive reform is needed. We believe 669 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: that the best way to eat elephants one by at 670 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 3: a time. Right, So let's find something that we can 671 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: achieve this year together. Let's find something we can achieve 672 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 3: in two years together. But you're right, there's going to 673 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 3: be a huge lift here. But the good thing is 674 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: that this is a bipart is an issue. Right when 675 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: you look at polling, Republicans and Democrats equally say that 676 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 3: this is something they're concerned about, right, This is something 677 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 3: that transcends the political spectrum. We just need our politicians 678 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 3: to realize that too, and that's part of the reason 679 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 3: why we're on this bus tour, part of the reason 680 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 3: we're engaging with people like you Tutor on your show. 681 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 3: We want as many people to hear this message as 682 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 3: possible and say, hey, there's an avenue for you to 683 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 3: go ahead and engage with so that hopefully we can 684 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 3: make changes together. 685 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: So tell us one more time where people can find you, 686 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: what site they can go to, and a little bit 687 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: about the tour. 688 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 4: Sure. 689 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 3: Our group is Americans for Farmer Reform. You can visit 690 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 3: us at www dot Americans for Pharma Reform dot com. 691 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 3: We're in the middle of our nationwide bus tour, the 692 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 3: Bust Big Pharma Tour. You can go to Bustbigpharma dot 693 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 3: com and see all the news from the bustour pictures. 694 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 3: You can follow us online on social media. We're posting 695 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: photos all the time. If we are not going to 696 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 3: be in your community or your state, you can go 697 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: ahead and sign the bus virtually right then and there 698 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 3: as well, and hopefully we get to see you out 699 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: all out on the road. We'll be in Michigan for 700 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 3: probably another two two and a half. 701 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: Weeks awesome, Rob Burgess, thank you so much for being 702 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: on today, Thanks d, and thank you all for joining 703 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, 704 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: go to Tutordison podcast dot com or head over to 705 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your 706 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 707 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: Have a blessed day.