Speaker 1: On the night of May twenty second, two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: a young man named Salvador Martinez was pushed to the
Speaker 1: ground in an alleyway near Dudley Grange Park in Camden,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. A few witnesses claimed to have seen two
Speaker 1: assailants rifling through his pockets before one of them fatally
Speaker 1: shot Salvador, and police took a statement from one of
Speaker 1: the witnesses named Carol Laughlin, who would eventually name twenty
Speaker 1: four year old Lance.
Speaker 2: Alford Karl Laughlan. When she first got asked about the situation,
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, I did see the guy's face, but
Speaker 2: he's not from Ruanda Aira. I'm from Randa area. Then
Speaker 2: she get locked up for all personal charges. Now I'm
Speaker 2: going to go see her again. And somehow got my
Speaker 2: name man to pitch on. How to get my name
Speaker 2: on the pitch? I don't know, And.
Speaker 1: Perhaps a more salient question is not how, but whom.
Speaker 1: The person leading this investigation for the Camden County Prosecutor's
Speaker 1: Office was Sergeant Martin Devlin, who we've seen in multiple
Speaker 1: wrongful conviction cases practicing a similar pattern. Single photo identifications
Speaker 1: shown to alleged witnesses with something to gain.
Speaker 3: The three eyewitnesses who did testify against Lance at the
Speaker 3: trial were shown a single photo of Lance rather than
Speaker 3: a photo array. And when you're shown a single photo,
Speaker 3: that's a very suggestive form of identification. The police are
Speaker 3: telling you this is who we think committed the crime.
Speaker 1: By the time Lance was taken to trial, Carol Laughlin's
Speaker 1: story had changed to something that was provably false.
Speaker 2: Our statement about how you've seen a guy get shot
Speaker 2: while he was standing up don't even match up with
Speaker 2: this forensic evidence in the case. And it's still that's
Speaker 2: the leader chest to fly on me. Come on, man,
Speaker 2: I'm playing games. I playing all my life. I'm Lance
Speaker 2: the mole with some benefit of the client. I'm a
Speaker 2: blocked up Elias six. And that never got out ever since.
Speaker 1: From Love of for Good Podcasts, this is wrong Full
Speaker 1: conviction with Maggie Freeling today. Lance Alford Camden, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: is a small city just over the Delaware River from Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: where an industrial boom in the late nineteenth century was
Speaker 1: followed by a bust in the mid to late twentieth
Speaker 1: century when company is left town for cheaper labor, leaving
Speaker 1: the economy and quality of life too Crumple.
Speaker 2: I was born in Canden nineteen eighty and I know
Speaker 2: my mother she was on all was looking two jobs,
Speaker 2: tied to low for three kids. She finally decided how
Speaker 2: to move out of Candaen into Cherry Hill in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty six eighty seven.
Speaker 1: Cherry Hill is an affluent, mostly white suburb, a recipient
Speaker 1: of what was known as white flight during the Great
Speaker 1: Migration of the Jim Crow era, when many African Americans
Speaker 1: ventured north for potentially kinder communities as opposed to the South,
Speaker 1: only to see large swaths of white folks head to
Speaker 1: the suburbs from the cities, bringing their tax base and
Speaker 1: school funding with them.
Speaker 2: No, I loved it out there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: School was out there, good at everything. Moved out there
Speaker 2: for a while and were doing good out there. But
Speaker 2: my dad got murdered with in nineteen eighty eight in Camden. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when I was eight years old. You know, my mom
Speaker 2: got a call and she was telling me like, YO,
Speaker 2: got to call your dad got shot. And all I
Speaker 2: remember is my mother like taking all three kids to
Speaker 2: the hospital, Cooper Hospital and Camden and it was like
Speaker 2: sorry to tell you that, just get kid's father to
Speaker 2: make it, you know what I mean, And I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: I was like seven, eight years old my father passed away.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I ain't know how to feel. That
Speaker 2: was young. It hit me hard, but I ain't know
Speaker 2: how to feel.
Speaker 1: In the aftermath of that loss, Lance's mother kept the
Speaker 1: kids in Cherry Hill for as long as she could.
Speaker 2: In seventh grade, I moved back to camp I say,
Speaker 2: ninety two ninety three, comments like it's too hard out here,
Speaker 2: pay the bills to move back to Cambon. So we
Speaker 2: back out there in a hard place to go up.
Speaker 2: So we're just trying to make ends, meeting survive, That's
Speaker 2: what we could. I felt like I had to fill
Speaker 2: a void and try to help my mother take care
Speaker 2: of us. Me doing that, I was drawing into like
Speaker 2: the environment around me, you know what I mean. You
Speaker 2: got caught up and selling drugs and everything. But I wasn't. No,
Speaker 2: I'm not the type of dude that. I wasn't no
Speaker 2: type of like hard gangster do nothing like that. Was
Speaker 2: just trying to make money, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It wasn't long before Lance was pinched for possession, putting
Speaker 1: him on the radar of the local authorities, and by
Speaker 1: spring two thousand and five, Lance was twenty four years old,
Speaker 1: and it appeared that local police were actively trying to
Speaker 1: pin something more serious on him.
Speaker 2: Before I got locked up. I remember I was sitting
Speaker 2: on the bus stop this at nighttime, like four or
Speaker 2: five cop cars caulled over on me or the shit
Speaker 2: of the prosecutor want to speak to you. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what what you mean? Now? Only you talking about? They
Speaker 2: put me in the course, put me down to the
Speaker 2: station and he put me in a little room behind
Speaker 2: a one dough and he gets these people to come
Speaker 2: in there and they like try to identify me something
Speaker 2: like them like what are they doing? And all I
Speaker 2: heard was number of people saying, no, it's not the guy.
Speaker 2: I'm the guy, like look at Ellid Talma, I'm on.
Speaker 2: After that, I got locked up for this.
Speaker 1: So Lance was dragged into a single person lineup for
Speaker 1: either this or something else entirely, we're not sure. But
Speaker 1: what we do know is that on the night of
Speaker 1: May twenty second, two thousand and five, on a very
Speaker 1: narrow street with even narrower alleyways that run between some
Speaker 1: of its row houses, a young man named Salvador Martinez
Speaker 1: was fatally shot in one of those alleyways that lead
Speaker 1: out to the north side of Dudley Grange Park, a
Speaker 1: park that was known for folks hanging out, drinking and
Speaker 1: drug use. And so there were a number of witnesses
Speaker 1: in the area, including two women named Lillian Davis and
Speaker 1: Carol Loughland, as well as a man named Fia Kim,
Speaker 1: but that night no one could identify the assailants.
Speaker 3: The ihnesses of the crime observed two men wearing hoodies
Speaker 3: shoot this man, Salvador Martinez, and it was super dark.
Speaker 3: This was late at night, and all of the eyewitnesses
Speaker 3: testified to being very far away from the crime. Didn't
Speaker 3: get a super good look. But yeah, just two guys,
Speaker 3: one short and one tall, running away from the scene.
Speaker 3: But neither of those heights corresponded to Lance, who is
Speaker 3: much taller than even the tall guy.
Speaker 1: That was Julia Kingston, one of the students with the
Speaker 1: Princeton making an axonery program. She and a fellow student
Speaker 1: named Nelson Rogers, among a few others, reinvestigated the case.
Speaker 4: There were several really compelling eyewitnesses who were not interviewed
Speaker 4: or didn't testify in his trial, and I think they
Speaker 4: were latantly overlooked during the investigation process.
Speaker 3: Yeah, two of the witnesses who we spoke with, Wanda
Speaker 3: Lane and Keith Pennington, signed affidavits swearing to their presence
Speaker 3: on the scene and their confidence that it was not
Speaker 3: Lance who committed the crime.
Speaker 1: And so the question becomes what changed for other witnesses
Speaker 1: and why Lance.
Speaker 3: So Lance was involved in dealing drugs in Camden at
Speaker 3: the time, and so he was already on the police's radar.
Speaker 3: And also we have reason to believe that Lance he
Speaker 3: got in an altercation with someone who then was like
Speaker 3: out to get him.
Speaker 4: He was in an altercation with someone whose father, I think,
Speaker 4: then said I'm gonna go get Lance Alfred, and then
Speaker 4: I believe went to the police and said it was
Speaker 4: Lance Alfred who shots out on Martinez. That's how he
Speaker 4: gets wrapped up in the whole situation.
Speaker 1: At that point, it appears that the detectives revisited some
Speaker 1: of the witnesses to show them a single photo it
Speaker 1: was of Lance.
Speaker 3: That's a very suggestive form of identification. Normally a witness
Speaker 3: has shown an array of photos and the idea there
Speaker 3: is just to not suggest to them this is who
Speaker 3: the police think committed the crime. To make it as
Speaker 3: fair as possible, the detectives in our case, Detective Greer
Speaker 3: and Falco as lucidated, had really shoddy investigation techniques, interrogation techniques,
Speaker 3: but the whole thing was overseen by Sergeant Marty Devlin,
Speaker 3: who has since been put on trial for perjury and
Speaker 3: so is known as a pretty dirty cop.
Speaker 1: Our listeners may remember Sergeant Martin Devlin from other cases
Speaker 1: we've covered, Tony Wright, Jimmy Dennis, Walter Agrod, Troy Coleman,
Speaker 1: Pedro Reinoso. All while Devlin was in Philly, and while
Speaker 1: he retired, Devlin went to work as an investigator for
Speaker 1: the Camden County Prosecutor's office.
Speaker 2: He was the supervios of mar cause I'll see the pattern.
Speaker 2: So the things he was going to Philadelphia with the
Speaker 2: seconding people to say what he wanted to say. Coherson people,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. The TAC day he was doing.
Speaker 2: It was a real aggressive This guy was a lot
Speaker 2: of damage in CANBD and it's Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: Lance's attorney Justin Bonas has discovered a cohort of men
Speaker 1: out of Camden, some of whom have come to know
Speaker 1: each other. While in prison after it appears that Martin
Speaker 1: Devlin helped put them there with the same pattern of
Speaker 1: single photo identifications made by coerced or incentivized eyewitnesses. We'll
Speaker 1: link to our coverage of Manfred Younger's case. Another that
Speaker 1: Justin brought to us before participating in the Making an
Speaker 1: Axonery program with Lance.
Speaker 3: As Justin said in our documentary, and when you're shown
Speaker 3: a single photo, the police are telling you this is
Speaker 3: who we think committed the crime.
Speaker 4: And speaking with Justin, you know, we learned about single
Speaker 4: photo identification and how police get around that by claiming
Speaker 4: that the witnesses know the person, and so the police
Speaker 4: essentially claim that these strangers know Lance from wherever, even
Speaker 4: though there's testimony in Affidavid's kind they come kind of
Speaker 4: after the fact that showed they don't know him at all,
Speaker 4: which means that this single photo procedure really is not valid.
Speaker 1: And it seems like these investigators were well aware of
Speaker 1: how unreliable the identifications were, especially when speaking with witnesses
Speaker 1: Lillian Davis and Carol Laughland.
Speaker 2: Cal Laughlin once she first got I asked about the situation,
Speaker 2: she said, Yeah, I did see the guy's face, but
Speaker 2: he's not from Ruanda area. I'm from Randa area. Then
Speaker 2: she get locked it for all personal charges. They should
Speaker 2: go see her again? Is it this guy? Now? She
Speaker 2: want to get out of Jesmore and say yeah, come
Speaker 2: on man really, But.
Speaker 1: Lillian Davis had no reason to cooperate or be pliable.
Speaker 1: She refused to make the idea, even though she stood
Speaker 1: right next to Carrol that night. Then Devlyn, Greer and
Speaker 1: Falco went to Tia Kim, who was facing charges while
Speaker 1: in probation as a sex offender, and it seems in
Speaker 1: order to avoid being thrown back in prison, thea Kim
Speaker 1: was now ready to cooperate as well, saying that the
Speaker 1: two assailants he'd seen running out of the alley had
Speaker 1: passed him in the park and now he claimed that
Speaker 1: he'd seen Lance's face, and later Kim claimed that he'd
Speaker 1: seen the other guy's face too, someone he remembered from
Speaker 1: middle school. Zier McDaniels.
Speaker 2: Zaia is my cousin. That's my first cousin, has mother
Speaker 2: and my mother assistant. This papa lied to me about
Speaker 2: what I was there for the station, saying I was
Speaker 2: here for warns. You know what I mean, traveling I'm like,
Speaker 2: what when they locked me up for us? When they
Speaker 2: cop said you know what you're here for, it's like
Speaker 2: here for a murder. I'm like a murder. So I
Speaker 2: knew the dude got shot because I'm just from the area,
Speaker 2: but when they put it on me, I'm like, what
Speaker 2: the hell y'all talking about it.
Speaker 3: Lance was at home with his girlfriend Aisha at the time.
Speaker 3: His mother, Gloria, was also at home at the time
Speaker 3: with the two of them. And this was over twenty
Speaker 3: years ago and Aisha and Lance are no longer involved.
Speaker 3: She has gone on to have a family and children
Speaker 3: with someone else, and to this day still swears that
Speaker 3: she was with Lance that night and he could not
Speaker 3: have committed the crime.
Speaker 2: I tried to explain so on my side of the story,
Speaker 2: but they kind of like like, no, we know what
Speaker 2: you know. You know, you get it, like, oh, I've
Speaker 2: done something to y'all because they don't want to let
Speaker 2: him out. They didn't want to hear me out, so
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was locked up in
Speaker 2: Live six, two thousand and five, and I never got
Speaker 2: out ever since. Naddy. That's the thing. At any time,
Speaker 2: I mean, like that was his day time selling job
Speaker 2: and all that. I ain't having money for Bell, like
Speaker 2: man that was three hundred and fifty cash. I mean,
Speaker 2: I didn't have money for that.
Speaker 1: While Lance and Zaire were in pre trial attention, another
Speaker 1: alleged witness named Jacob Eller came forward.
Speaker 2: This guy came to them five months after the murders,
Speaker 2: told employd to called the prosecutal how'd you help me
Speaker 2: out of jail? He's telling them the dude so drugged me,
Speaker 2: which is allied. I don't even know this guy like that.
Speaker 1: Eller, who was seeking leniency in his own charges, claimed
Speaker 1: that he'd overheard a discussion about the victim owing Lance
Speaker 1: money and claimed that he saw Lance get into his
Speaker 1: car with a gun. But on the eve of trial,
Speaker 1: it's believed that Eller told investigators he had lied and
Speaker 1: did not want to testify, which is then believed to
Speaker 1: have had prompted a recorded statement on February twenty first,
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, where Eller said that he only
Speaker 1: wanted to avoid testifying out of fear of reprisal from
Speaker 1: the defendants. Strange that they'd get him on the record
Speaker 1: about that, right anyway.
Speaker 2: My trials started February twenty second, two thousand and seven
Speaker 2: and getting the trout. Jury came forward, said one of
Speaker 2: the drawers was talking about my tattoo on my face
Speaker 2: because I got a tear drop on my face, and
Speaker 2: my tear drops represent my father getting murdered and my
Speaker 2: grandma I'm dying. So one of the drawers took that
Speaker 2: ass he got a tattoo and his favorable boy, he
Speaker 2: might have did something for the warm. Oh, none of
Speaker 2: the jews told another draw about that to the judge.
Speaker 2: So the one that brought it up, she said, I'm
Speaker 2: talking about his tattoo because I need these certain things.
Speaker 1: A tear drop tattoo can mean personal hardship like a
Speaker 1: lost loved one, or that one has committed an act
Speaker 1: of violence or murder. So now everyone in the jury
Speaker 1: was thinking about the potential meaning of Lance's tear drop
Speaker 1: as trial began, where the state presented Jacob Eller, who
Speaker 1: testified consistently with his November two thousand and five statement
Speaker 1: while the state was ready with his video statement in
Speaker 1: case he welched, and when he was cross examined about
Speaker 1: his deal, he said that he was seeking justice for
Speaker 1: his friend while also trying to secure release. The prosecution
Speaker 1: also reminded trial Council at sidebar to back off where
Speaker 1: they'd play his video statement from the day prior. Then
Speaker 1: the Akim testified.
Speaker 2: THEA. Kim was saying he was in a park smoking,
Speaker 2: drigging and you need see the guy get shy. You'd
Speaker 2: seen his spot. He see two guys all black on
Speaker 2: run from the crime. See he weighed a back in
Speaker 2: a park. So they run towards film and keep runing
Speaker 2: towards Silm till he's seen a face it.
Speaker 1: THEA Kim identified both Lance and Zayre, and on cross trial,
Speaker 1: Council was able to raise that Kim was on probation
Speaker 1: for a sex crime facing another charge, and that he
Speaker 1: already entered a plea agreement with the prosecution in April
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, but Kim claimed that his testimony
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the deal he got. In addition,
Speaker 1: he said that he remembered Zayer from middle school.
Speaker 2: I'm like, hold up, how did he go to school? Well,
Speaker 2: he seven years older than him, So they conversed him
Speaker 2: and say, oh nah, now he must have just say
Speaker 2: you see him around the school. I'm like, come on now.
Speaker 1: And Carol Laughlin's testimony had problems as well.
Speaker 2: Her statement about how the dude died don't even match
Speaker 2: up with that this forensic evidence in the case she
Speaker 2: talking about she seen the guy get shot while he
Speaker 2: was standing up. The forensic evant said, the dude got
Speaker 2: shot while he was on the ground, laying on the ground.
Speaker 2: And then you got Lilian Davis, lets me standing right
Speaker 2: next to Cheryl Laughlin. Loily and David said she couldn't
Speaker 2: see nobody's face, and Karl was standing right next to
Speaker 2: her saying the guy ran up to her, and she
Speaker 2: got like, what Lillian and David didn't say that, So
Speaker 2: why y'all story's not adding up? She giving a totally
Speaker 2: different counts. So I'm like, come on now, and they
Speaker 2: still let this lady check the fire lie on me.
Speaker 1: But Lance still had his alibi witnesses, his girlfriend and mother,
Speaker 1: and then my lawyer never called.
Speaker 2: Her in there, So they tell you got a thing.
Speaker 2: They tell you said the witness cannot be in trial,
Speaker 2: have my mother sit outside of trial the whole time,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, why are you doing? Why you didn't
Speaker 2: call my mother? Might behaved.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, loved ones are often easy to impeach as willing
Speaker 1: to lie, But now neither of the women he loved
Speaker 1: could support him through what happened next.
Speaker 2: Going to the end of trial, and the jury sent
Speaker 2: a note to the judge just may tell and the
Speaker 2: one note was like, we want to read all the
Speaker 2: witness is testimony back over again. And he basically told
Speaker 2: them they couldn't do that because they don't have a
Speaker 2: video of a witness testimony yet. And he told them
Speaker 2: it's gonna take it longer to read it over than
Speaker 2: it was before. So I'm like, why would he say that,
Speaker 2: Why would he tell him something gonna take longer. Joey
Speaker 2: don't want to be there that long anyway. The don't
Speaker 2: want to hear that word longer period. So he told
Speaker 2: him go back in there. After that, it was like
Speaker 2: just to the all charges. They feel like you're getting
Speaker 2: the air knocked out of you, like and this is
Speaker 2: gonna be my life for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: They sent me in the Jersey State Prison, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, the Maximwell President in Jersey. So get here,
Speaker 2: get quarantine for a week. Then they send me to
Speaker 2: another unit. Call for a right man. This for a
Speaker 2: right unit. It's like an old horse people. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you know if anything about this prison right here,
Speaker 2: the West compound, this prison when they first built this thing,
Speaker 2: and two hundred years ago, two d fify years ago.
Speaker 2: This thing is old. Man, it's crazy. And I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 2: you got me standing the horse people. It's crazy. Like
Speaker 2: it's like I was like messed up in the head
Speaker 2: when I've seen this stuff. It's still old in here,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You got to actually go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom in a metal box in the wall,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's crazy. It's it's terrible. Man. Man,
Speaker 2: They've been supposed to condemn this spot right here when
Speaker 2: I'm at but yeah, it's spooky here, man, crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's not to laugh, but I laugh to keep myself
Speaker 2: in crying. Man.
Speaker 1: Serious, it is serious. They've got these men staying in
Speaker 1: what looks like a horse stable, in a structure that
Speaker 1: was built during the era of slavery, which really has
Speaker 1: never ended since. According to the thirteenth Amendment, both he
Speaker 1: and Ziara could now be put to work next to
Speaker 1: everyone else in prison for free, so in their effort
Speaker 1: to escape enslavement. On appeal, they pointed out that Kim
Speaker 1: had entered into another plea agreement with the prosecution just
Speaker 1: four days after their trial, which certainly called his credibility
Speaker 1: into question.
Speaker 2: They had us on the feel at Saint Tom he
Speaker 2: only had kim Lan on him. I had two people
Speaker 2: on you know what I mean. They gave him a
Speaker 2: new trial. They're not my teal. And then when he
Speaker 2: got a new trial, he went back to court and
Speaker 2: he was like, he was telling me, like, they're not
Speaker 2: playing fair. They're not trying to hear us our side
Speaker 2: of the story. They still think we built the other stuff.
Speaker 2: So he like they flowed us once. So he said,
Speaker 2: I'm not going back to drought. I'm taking a deal.
Speaker 2: He went back at a good deal again, I think
Speaker 2: sixty years, which is still.
Speaker 1: So wrong, but at least not as harsh as the
Speaker 1: life sentence. Lance still had to fight.
Speaker 2: Yes, what they tell you first come down. You gotta
Speaker 2: fight for your life, man. You gotta tell all library
Speaker 2: and get the knowledge and understand it of your case
Speaker 2: and try to know the law. That's what I did.
Speaker 1: Lance filed a post conviction relief motion based on ineffective
Speaker 1: assistance of Council, raising how trial council failed to elicit
Speaker 1: from Jacob Eller that he told the prosecutor that he'd
Speaker 1: lied in his original statement, as well as that trial
Speaker 1: council knew about the Kim's post trial plea deal but
Speaker 1: failed to confront him with it. Additionally, that trial council
Speaker 1: failed to present his alibi or alternate suspects. Apparently there
Speaker 1: were witnesses who named two other individuals that went by
Speaker 1: Ghostface and Romulus, but since the evidence to support these
Speaker 1: claims were not properly developed or presented in the post
Speaker 1: conviction motion, it was denied in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: So denied so much. And after a while he used
Speaker 2: to be come numb to it when you get by
Speaker 2: time to get to the Feds and the hey, you
Speaker 2: come numb to it, like it's gonna be my life.
Speaker 2: But I had a feeling. I was like, man, I
Speaker 2: just had to keep going, keep fighting. I can't lay down.
Speaker 2: So I had to get Affidavid and proved to him
Speaker 2: that I had people become a court on my behalf.
Speaker 2: So I look at Affi David and submit that in
Speaker 2: court and show him, like listen what I had. I
Speaker 2: gave it to the lawyer. He never submitted it, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, he never investigated by alibi. So they sent
Speaker 2: it back on her. Farsel Remaan on that in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: It was like an everdiction here. It proved to him
Speaker 2: that I told my attorney about my alibi. So that's
Speaker 2: what they send it back on. I got that open
Speaker 2: right now waiting on that. And at the same time,
Speaker 2: that's what I've heard about what Justin did with toront
Speaker 2: Hill attorney.
Speaker 1: And friend of the show, Justin Bonus one relief for
Speaker 1: another innocent man out of Camden Tarren Hill, and from
Speaker 1: his case he discovered a whole host of others that
Speaker 1: involved Martin Devlin, single photo identifications and incentivized or coerced
Speaker 1: false testimony.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow told them about me. Another guy's in here, and
Speaker 2: that's how we ran, In suggested, and Justin, I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: he did God answer my prayer? Because I need help.
Speaker 3: Justin Bonus, Lance's attorney hired a private investigator named Bill Trump,
Speaker 3: who was able to track down both Carol Laughlin and
Speaker 3: THEA Kim, who both admitted that the police essentially told
Speaker 3: them what to say, and they repeated the police's instructions.
Speaker 4: THEA Kim said, I've never seen Lance in my life.
Speaker 2: This has happened in twenty twenty three, when Via Kim
Speaker 2: recanned his statement and saying, Hi, he was cohersed by
Speaker 2: all the investigators because he was a probation. The effective nay,
Speaker 2: he said, if you didn't say what we want to say,
Speaker 2: we want to Valley said, probation.
Speaker 4: I believe the police said something to the effect of, luck,
Speaker 4: we can make this all go away if you say
Speaker 4: that you know this guy, and so that's what he did.
Speaker 2: Charl Lughton basically said the same thing Kim said because
Speaker 2: she didn't really want to talk. But she's basically said
Speaker 2: to the investigator, she did what they told her to do.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, we already know. Carol Laughlin
Speaker 1: was unreliable as she was inconsistent over three interviews and
Speaker 1: trial testimony. Her narrative conflicted with both the forensic evidence
Speaker 1: as well as Lily and Davis, who was allegedly standing
Speaker 1: right next to her during the crime. In addition, she
Speaker 1: only decided to name Lance in exchange for leniency in
Speaker 1: her own charges. In addition to THEA Kim and Carol Loughland,
Speaker 1: the private investigator spoke with new witnesses Londa Lane and
Speaker 1: Keith Pennington.
Speaker 2: Investigator William Trump. He when got statement for me, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't stand that he was here at the time to
Speaker 2: try on happened, and he knew I wasn't there.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Jacob Eller could not be located. But we know
Speaker 1: that the prosecution was motivated to create a video on
Speaker 1: the day before trial with Eller saying that he didn't
Speaker 1: want to testify out of fear of reprisal, which came
Speaker 1: in handy to make trial council back off and cross
Speaker 1: examination and would have been useful if Eller chose to
Speaker 1: recant on the witness stand. So, while this has all
Speaker 1: been added to an amended petition, Lance sought clemency from
Speaker 1: the governor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've actually had some pretty good news. His
Speaker 3: sentence was commuted by Governor Murphy of New Jersey, which
Speaker 3: we think is a huge deal. There were thousands of
Speaker 3: clemency applications and he only granted a couple hundred. I
Speaker 3: think he'll be eligible for parole beginning in twenty thirty.
Speaker 4: As part of his commutation, he's also being moved to
Speaker 4: a lower security facility.
Speaker 3: Obviously, this is not a total exoneration, which is what
Speaker 3: we would desire for him, but given that the alternative
Speaker 3: is a life in prison. We're really excited that the
Speaker 3: end is in sight for him and his family.
Speaker 4: You know, when you sit across from Lance and Lance's
Speaker 4: mom and Lance's brother, and at the documentary screening we
Speaker 4: were sat in the road just in front of his niece,
Speaker 4: and when you see how this wrongal incarceration is so
Speaker 4: brutal on the family, that like, this is an experience
Speaker 4: that will never leave me and that will always always
Speaker 4: inform how I go about my business with integrity. Compare
Speaker 4: right now, I'm a paralegal in a prosecutor's office and
Speaker 4: I'm considering it. You know, longer term, the worst thing
Speaker 4: that you can do as a prosecutor, hands down, is
Speaker 4: what these people have done to Lance.
Speaker 5: Julia, you know, how has your idea of the criminal
Speaker 5: legal system changed from you know, doing this course in
Speaker 5: Lance's case.
Speaker 3: It's such a cliche, but it's cliche because it's true.
Speaker 3: I really think it's just laid bare for me how
Speaker 3: broken the criminal legal system is and how it's stacked
Speaker 3: against poor people, black people, people who don't have resources.
Speaker 3: And for me, I would say, I'm considering a path
Speaker 3: in public defense, and I think, just like one of
Speaker 3: The most important kind of moral imperatives I see is
Speaker 3: the right to an effective assistance of counsel, and Lance
Speaker 3: was not given that, and so many people are simply
Speaker 3: not given that. This case really just elucidated for me
Speaker 3: how much is broken in our system, and how really
Speaker 3: what so many people need are just advocates and people
Speaker 3: to not only tell their stories, but also people to
Speaker 3: listen to their stories. I think that's something that's so
Speaker 3: special about making an exonery. There's been a really high
Speaker 3: success rate of people who have been able to walk
Speaker 3: out of prison in the years following their participation in
Speaker 3: this program. For every person who's been able to walk
Speaker 3: out of prison, there are still plenty of program participants
Speaker 3: who remain incarcerated to this day. But I think while
Speaker 3: it's not a solution, but just having a room full
Speaker 3: of one hundred people watch your documentary and hear your
Speaker 3: story and have your story told in your words, on
Speaker 3: your own terms, I think for a lot of the
Speaker 3: participants in this program, that's just the really special experience
Speaker 3: and a transformative one.
Speaker 5: What made you guys want to choose making an exonery
Speaker 5: as something you were going to pursue.
Speaker 4: I first learned about making an exonerate from a friend
Speaker 4: who took the class at Georgetown a year or two
Speaker 4: before and had just like rave reviews about it, and
Speaker 4: she actually went on to work for the program in
Speaker 4: the years after she graduated, and so when it finally
Speaker 4: came to Princeton, she said to me, look, Nelson, you
Speaker 4: have to do this. The two lawyers who are teaching
Speaker 4: the class, who are Chelsea and Malkin and Yosha Gunnessikhara,
Speaker 4: They're incredible. They are really kind people who are going
Speaker 4: to like really ignite a passion in you for defense work,
Speaker 4: which they did. I mean, they were amazing, and just
Speaker 4: having the experience of working with a wrongfully convicted person,
Speaker 4: their family, going to the prison, these are all experiences
Speaker 4: that are incredibly transformative. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 4: people who you know in college are rightly really passionate about,
Speaker 4: you know, criminal defense, but there's probably pretty few actually
Speaker 4: who go to a prison to speak with incarcerated people there.
Speaker 4: And so to be able to have really tangible experiences
Speaker 4: like that is invaluable as we sort of take these
Speaker 4: sort of first steps in our very nascent careers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for both of us we took this
Speaker 3: course our senior spring, so it was one of the
Speaker 3: final courses that we took during undergrad and I think
Speaker 3: for me, I just was looking for something that could
Speaker 3: make me feel like I was leaving college and going
Speaker 3: out into the world and actually doing something important that
Speaker 3: wasn't just reading and discussing in a classroom, but that
Speaker 3: I could actually have an experience where I could help
Speaker 3: someone and knows a lot of work. Both of us
Speaker 3: were writing our THESS while we were also going to
Speaker 3: Philly and Camden every weekend to see Lance and to
Speaker 3: conduct interviews and visit the crime scene. And so it
Speaker 3: was definitely quite the chaotic spring, but also so so
Speaker 3: rewarding in the end.
Speaker 1: We definitely hope to see great things from both of
Speaker 1: you in the future. We'll also link to the documentary
Speaker 1: that you both made about this case in the episode description,
Speaker 1: along with contact information for his attorney. Justin bonus well,
Speaker 1: the commutation to an earlier parole eligibility is progress. Lance
Speaker 1: should not be spending another minute in prison, let alone
Speaker 1: another five or ten years. So we are begging if
Speaker 1: anyone out there has information, please come forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta be a blessing. I get more information
Speaker 2: not like somebody came forth like a month ago. The
Speaker 2: dude they're suposed to did the crime locked up for
Speaker 2: becausessed him. They did the crime. The investigator will of
Speaker 2: Trump talked to him also. He told the merry thing
Speaker 2: like it was, I was locked up with this guy
Speaker 2: ball in the fence and he told me everything that
Speaker 2: he did about this crime. He got two innocent guys
Speaker 2: locked up, and that was a blessed. I got that
Speaker 2: statement open that you have one good minute remaining. So
Speaker 2: it's a blessing. It's blessed that you guys are doing.
Speaker 2: It is to bring more life to the situation that
Speaker 2: I'm marry. You know, I mean exposed stuff that was
Speaker 2: done in the dark. You know, I mean to my situation.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you guys are bringing a delight
Speaker 2: to the situation, you know what I mean. So I'm
Speaker 2: thankful for working with you, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: and any anybody else to do the work out, bring
Speaker 2: the truth out.
Speaker 5: I thank you, thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction
Speaker 5: with Maggie Freeling. I'd like to thank our production team
Speaker 5: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as executive producers
Speaker 5: Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wortis, and Jeff Clyburn. The
Speaker 5: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
Speaker 5: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
Speaker 5: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
Speaker 5: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on all platforms
Speaker 5: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a
Speaker 5: production of Lava for Good podcast in association with the
Speaker 5: Signal Company Number One.
Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported
Speaker 1: in this show are accurate.
Speaker 4: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in
Speaker 4: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect
Speaker 4: those of Lava for Good