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Speaker 1: On the night of May twenty second, two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: a young man named Salvador Martinez was pushed to the

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Speaker 1: ground in an alleyway near Dudley Grange Park in Camden,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. A few witnesses claimed to have seen two

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Speaker 1: assailants rifling through his pockets before one of them fatally

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Speaker 1: shot Salvador, and police took a statement from one of

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Speaker 1: the witnesses named Carol Laughlin, who would eventually name twenty

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Speaker 1: four year old Lance.

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Speaker 2: Alford Karl Laughlan. When she first got asked about the situation,

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Speaker 2: she said, yeah, I did see the guy's face, but

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Speaker 2: he's not from Ruanda Aira. I'm from Randa area. Then

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Speaker 2: she get locked up for all personal charges. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go see her again. And somehow got my

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Speaker 2: name man to pitch on. How to get my name

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Speaker 2: on the pitch? I don't know, And.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps a more salient question is not how, but whom.

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Speaker 1: The person leading this investigation for the Camden County Prosecutor's

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Speaker 1: Office was Sergeant Martin Devlin, who we've seen in multiple

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Speaker 1: wrongful conviction cases practicing a similar pattern. Single photo identifications

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Speaker 1: shown to alleged witnesses with something to gain.

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Speaker 3: The three eyewitnesses who did testify against Lance at the

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Speaker 3: trial were shown a single photo of Lance rather than

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Speaker 3: a photo array. And when you're shown a single photo,

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Speaker 3: that's a very suggestive form of identification. The police are

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Speaker 3: telling you this is who we think committed the crime.

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Speaker 1: By the time Lance was taken to trial, Carol Laughlin's

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Speaker 1: story had changed to something that was provably false.

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Speaker 2: Our statement about how you've seen a guy get shot

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Speaker 2: while he was standing up don't even match up with

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Speaker 2: this forensic evidence in the case. And it's still that's

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Speaker 2: the leader chest to fly on me. Come on, man,

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Speaker 2: I'm playing games. I playing all my life. I'm Lance

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Speaker 2: the mole with some benefit of the client. I'm a

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Speaker 2: blocked up Elias six. And that never got out ever since.

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Speaker 1: From Love of for Good Podcasts, this is wrong Full

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Speaker 1: conviction with Maggie Freeling today. Lance Alford Camden, New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: is a small city just over the Delaware River from Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: where an industrial boom in the late nineteenth century was

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Speaker 1: followed by a bust in the mid to late twentieth

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Speaker 1: century when company is left town for cheaper labor, leaving

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Speaker 1: the economy and quality of life too Crumple.

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Speaker 2: I was born in Canden nineteen eighty and I know

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Speaker 2: my mother she was on all was looking two jobs,

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Speaker 2: tied to low for three kids. She finally decided how

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Speaker 2: to move out of Candaen into Cherry Hill in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty six eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: Cherry Hill is an affluent, mostly white suburb, a recipient

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Speaker 1: of what was known as white flight during the Great

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Speaker 1: Migration of the Jim Crow era, when many African Americans

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Speaker 1: ventured north for potentially kinder communities as opposed to the South,

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Speaker 1: only to see large swaths of white folks head to

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Speaker 1: the suburbs from the cities, bringing their tax base and

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Speaker 1: school funding with them.

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Speaker 2: No, I loved it out there, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: School was out there, good at everything. Moved out there

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Speaker 2: for a while and were doing good out there. But

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Speaker 2: my dad got murdered with in nineteen eighty eight in Camden. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when I was eight years old. You know, my mom

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Speaker 2: got a call and she was telling me like, YO,

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Speaker 2: got to call your dad got shot. And all I

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Speaker 2: remember is my mother like taking all three kids to

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Speaker 2: the hospital, Cooper Hospital and Camden and it was like

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Speaker 2: sorry to tell you that, just get kid's father to

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Speaker 2: make it, you know what I mean, And I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I was like seven, eight years old my father passed away.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I ain't know how to feel. That

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Speaker 2: was young. It hit me hard, but I ain't know

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Speaker 2: how to feel.

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Speaker 1: In the aftermath of that loss, Lance's mother kept the

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Speaker 1: kids in Cherry Hill for as long as she could.

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Speaker 2: In seventh grade, I moved back to camp I say,

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Speaker 2: ninety two ninety three, comments like it's too hard out here,

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Speaker 2: pay the bills to move back to Cambon. So we

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Speaker 2: back out there in a hard place to go up.

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Speaker 2: So we're just trying to make ends, meeting survive, That's

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Speaker 2: what we could. I felt like I had to fill

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Speaker 2: a void and try to help my mother take care

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Speaker 2: of us. Me doing that, I was drawing into like

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Speaker 2: the environment around me, you know what I mean. You

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Speaker 2: got caught up and selling drugs and everything. But I wasn't. No,

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Speaker 2: I'm not the type of dude that. I wasn't no

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Speaker 2: type of like hard gangster do nothing like that. Was

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Speaker 2: just trying to make money, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't long before Lance was pinched for possession, putting

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Speaker 1: him on the radar of the local authorities, and by

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Speaker 1: spring two thousand and five, Lance was twenty four years old,

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Speaker 1: and it appeared that local police were actively trying to

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Speaker 1: pin something more serious on him.

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Speaker 2: Before I got locked up. I remember I was sitting

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Speaker 2: on the bus stop this at nighttime, like four or

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Speaker 2: five cop cars caulled over on me or the shit

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Speaker 2: of the prosecutor want to speak to you. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: what what you mean? Now? Only you talking about? They

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Speaker 2: put me in the course, put me down to the

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Speaker 2: station and he put me in a little room behind

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Speaker 2: a one dough and he gets these people to come

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Speaker 2: in there and they like try to identify me something

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Speaker 2: like them like what are they doing? And all I

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Speaker 2: heard was number of people saying, no, it's not the guy.

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Speaker 2: I'm the guy, like look at Ellid Talma, I'm on.

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Speaker 2: After that, I got locked up for this.

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Speaker 1: So Lance was dragged into a single person lineup for

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Speaker 1: either this or something else entirely, we're not sure. But

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Speaker 1: what we do know is that on the night of

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Speaker 1: May twenty second, two thousand and five, on a very

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Speaker 1: narrow street with even narrower alleyways that run between some

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Speaker 1: of its row houses, a young man named Salvador Martinez

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Speaker 1: was fatally shot in one of those alleyways that lead

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Speaker 1: out to the north side of Dudley Grange Park, a

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Speaker 1: park that was known for folks hanging out, drinking and

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Speaker 1: drug use. And so there were a number of witnesses

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Speaker 1: in the area, including two women named Lillian Davis and

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Speaker 1: Carol Loughland, as well as a man named Fia Kim,

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Speaker 1: but that night no one could identify the assailants.

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Speaker 3: The ihnesses of the crime observed two men wearing hoodies

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Speaker 3: shoot this man, Salvador Martinez, and it was super dark.

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Speaker 3: This was late at night, and all of the eyewitnesses

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Speaker 3: testified to being very far away from the crime. Didn't

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Speaker 3: get a super good look. But yeah, just two guys,

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Speaker 3: one short and one tall, running away from the scene.

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Speaker 3: But neither of those heights corresponded to Lance, who is

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Speaker 3: much taller than even the tall guy.

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Speaker 1: That was Julia Kingston, one of the students with the

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Speaker 1: Princeton making an axonery program. She and a fellow student

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Speaker 1: named Nelson Rogers, among a few others, reinvestigated the case.

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Speaker 4: There were several really compelling eyewitnesses who were not interviewed

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Speaker 4: or didn't testify in his trial, and I think they

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Speaker 4: were latantly overlooked during the investigation process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, two of the witnesses who we spoke with, Wanda

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Speaker 3: Lane and Keith Pennington, signed affidavits swearing to their presence

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Speaker 3: on the scene and their confidence that it was not

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Speaker 3: Lance who committed the crime.

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Speaker 1: And so the question becomes what changed for other witnesses

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Speaker 1: and why Lance.

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Speaker 3: So Lance was involved in dealing drugs in Camden at

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Speaker 3: the time, and so he was already on the police's radar.

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Speaker 3: And also we have reason to believe that Lance he

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Speaker 3: got in an altercation with someone who then was like

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Speaker 3: out to get him.

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Speaker 4: He was in an altercation with someone whose father, I think,

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Speaker 4: then said I'm gonna go get Lance Alfred, and then

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Speaker 4: I believe went to the police and said it was

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Speaker 4: Lance Alfred who shots out on Martinez. That's how he

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Speaker 4: gets wrapped up in the whole situation.

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Speaker 1: At that point, it appears that the detectives revisited some

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Speaker 1: of the witnesses to show them a single photo it

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Speaker 1: was of Lance.

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Speaker 3: That's a very suggestive form of identification. Normally a witness

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Speaker 3: has shown an array of photos and the idea there

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Speaker 3: is just to not suggest to them this is who

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Speaker 3: the police think committed the crime. To make it as

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Speaker 3: fair as possible, the detectives in our case, Detective Greer

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Speaker 3: and Falco as lucidated, had really shoddy investigation techniques, interrogation techniques,

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Speaker 3: but the whole thing was overseen by Sergeant Marty Devlin,

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Speaker 3: who has since been put on trial for perjury and

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Speaker 3: so is known as a pretty dirty cop.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners may remember Sergeant Martin Devlin from other cases

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Speaker 1: we've covered, Tony Wright, Jimmy Dennis, Walter Agrod, Troy Coleman,

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Speaker 1: Pedro Reinoso. All while Devlin was in Philly, and while

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Speaker 1: he retired, Devlin went to work as an investigator for

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Speaker 1: the Camden County Prosecutor's office.

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Speaker 2: He was the supervios of mar cause I'll see the pattern.

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Speaker 2: So the things he was going to Philadelphia with the

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Speaker 2: seconding people to say what he wanted to say. Coherson people,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. The TAC day he was doing.

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Speaker 2: It was a real aggressive This guy was a lot

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Speaker 2: of damage in CANBD and it's Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: Lance's attorney Justin Bonas has discovered a cohort of men

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Speaker 1: out of Camden, some of whom have come to know

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Speaker 1: each other. While in prison after it appears that Martin

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Speaker 1: Devlin helped put them there with the same pattern of

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Speaker 1: single photo identifications made by coerced or incentivized eyewitnesses. We'll

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Speaker 1: link to our coverage of Manfred Younger's case. Another that

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Speaker 1: Justin brought to us before participating in the Making an

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Speaker 1: Axonery program with Lance.

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Speaker 3: As Justin said in our documentary, and when you're shown

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Speaker 3: a single photo, the police are telling you this is

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Speaker 3: who we think committed the crime.

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Speaker 4: And speaking with Justin, you know, we learned about single

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Speaker 4: photo identification and how police get around that by claiming

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Speaker 4: that the witnesses know the person, and so the police

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Speaker 4: essentially claim that these strangers know Lance from wherever, even

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Speaker 4: though there's testimony in Affidavid's kind they come kind of

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Speaker 4: after the fact that showed they don't know him at all,

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Speaker 4: which means that this single photo procedure really is not valid.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like these investigators were well aware of

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Speaker 1: how unreliable the identifications were, especially when speaking with witnesses

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Speaker 1: Lillian Davis and Carol Laughland.

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Speaker 2: Cal Laughlin once she first got I asked about the situation,

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Speaker 2: she said, Yeah, I did see the guy's face, but

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Speaker 2: he's not from Ruanda area. I'm from Randa area. Then

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Speaker 2: she get locked it for all personal charges. They should

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Speaker 2: go see her again? Is it this guy? Now? She

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Speaker 2: want to get out of Jesmore and say yeah, come

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Speaker 2: on man really, But.

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Speaker 1: Lillian Davis had no reason to cooperate or be pliable.

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Speaker 1: She refused to make the idea, even though she stood

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Speaker 1: right next to Carrol that night. Then Devlyn, Greer and

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Speaker 1: Falco went to Tia Kim, who was facing charges while

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Speaker 1: in probation as a sex offender, and it seems in

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Speaker 1: order to avoid being thrown back in prison, thea Kim

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Speaker 1: was now ready to cooperate as well, saying that the

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Speaker 1: two assailants he'd seen running out of the alley had

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Speaker 1: passed him in the park and now he claimed that

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Speaker 1: he'd seen Lance's face, and later Kim claimed that he'd

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Speaker 1: seen the other guy's face too, someone he remembered from

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Speaker 1: middle school. Zier McDaniels.

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Speaker 2: Zaia is my cousin. That's my first cousin, has mother

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Speaker 2: and my mother assistant. This papa lied to me about

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Speaker 2: what I was there for the station, saying I was

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Speaker 2: here for warns. You know what I mean, traveling I'm like,

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Speaker 2: what when they locked me up for us? When they

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Speaker 2: cop said you know what you're here for, it's like

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Speaker 2: here for a murder. I'm like a murder. So I

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Speaker 2: knew the dude got shot because I'm just from the area,

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Speaker 2: but when they put it on me, I'm like, what

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Speaker 2: the hell y'all talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Lance was at home with his girlfriend Aisha at the time.

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Speaker 3: His mother, Gloria, was also at home at the time

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Speaker 3: with the two of them. And this was over twenty

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Speaker 3: years ago and Aisha and Lance are no longer involved.

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Speaker 3: She has gone on to have a family and children

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Speaker 3: with someone else, and to this day still swears that

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Speaker 3: she was with Lance that night and he could not

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Speaker 3: have committed the crime.

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Speaker 2: I tried to explain so on my side of the story,

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Speaker 2: but they kind of like like, no, we know what

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Speaker 2: you know. You know, you get it, like, oh, I've

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Speaker 2: done something to y'all because they don't want to let

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Speaker 2: him out. They didn't want to hear me out, so

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was locked up in

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Speaker 2: Live six, two thousand and five, and I never got

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Speaker 2: out ever since. Naddy. That's the thing. At any time,

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Speaker 2: I mean, like that was his day time selling job

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Speaker 2: and all that. I ain't having money for Bell, like

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Speaker 2: man that was three hundred and fifty cash. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I didn't have money for that.

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Speaker 1: While Lance and Zaire were in pre trial attention, another

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Speaker 1: alleged witness named Jacob Eller came forward.

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Speaker 2: This guy came to them five months after the murders,

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Speaker 2: told employd to called the prosecutal how'd you help me

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Speaker 2: out of jail? He's telling them the dude so drugged me,

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Speaker 2: which is allied. I don't even know this guy like that.

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Speaker 1: Eller, who was seeking leniency in his own charges, claimed

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Speaker 1: that he'd overheard a discussion about the victim owing Lance

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Speaker 1: money and claimed that he saw Lance get into his

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Speaker 1: car with a gun. But on the eve of trial,

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Speaker 1: it's believed that Eller told investigators he had lied and

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Speaker 1: did not want to testify, which is then believed to

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Speaker 1: have had prompted a recorded statement on February twenty first,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, where Eller said that he only

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Speaker 1: wanted to avoid testifying out of fear of reprisal from

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Speaker 1: the defendants. Strange that they'd get him on the record

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Speaker 1: about that, right anyway.

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Speaker 2: My trials started February twenty second, two thousand and seven

256
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Speaker 2: and getting the trout. Jury came forward, said one of

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Speaker 2: the drawers was talking about my tattoo on my face

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Speaker 2: because I got a tear drop on my face, and

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Speaker 2: my tear drops represent my father getting murdered and my

260
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Speaker 2: grandma I'm dying. So one of the drawers took that

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Speaker 2: ass he got a tattoo and his favorable boy, he

262
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Speaker 2: might have did something for the warm. Oh, none of

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Speaker 2: the jews told another draw about that to the judge.

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Speaker 2: So the one that brought it up, she said, I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about his tattoo because I need these certain things.

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Speaker 1: A tear drop tattoo can mean personal hardship like a

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Speaker 1: lost loved one, or that one has committed an act

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Speaker 1: of violence or murder. So now everyone in the jury

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Speaker 1: was thinking about the potential meaning of Lance's tear drop

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Speaker 1: as trial began, where the state presented Jacob Eller, who

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Speaker 1: testified consistently with his November two thousand and five statement

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Speaker 1: while the state was ready with his video statement in

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Speaker 1: case he welched, and when he was cross examined about

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Speaker 1: his deal, he said that he was seeking justice for

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Speaker 1: his friend while also trying to secure release. The prosecution

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Speaker 1: also reminded trial Council at sidebar to back off where

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Speaker 1: they'd play his video statement from the day prior. Then

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Speaker 1: the Akim testified.

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Speaker 2: THEA. Kim was saying he was in a park smoking,

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Speaker 2: drigging and you need see the guy get shy. You'd

281
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Speaker 2: seen his spot. He see two guys all black on

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Speaker 2: run from the crime. See he weighed a back in

283
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Speaker 2: a park. So they run towards film and keep runing

284
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Speaker 2: towards Silm till he's seen a face it.

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Speaker 1: THEA Kim identified both Lance and Zayre, and on cross trial,

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Speaker 1: Council was able to raise that Kim was on probation

287
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Speaker 1: for a sex crime facing another charge, and that he

288
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 1: already entered a plea agreement with the prosecution in April

289
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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, but Kim claimed that his testimony

290
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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the deal he got. In addition,

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Speaker 1: he said that he remembered Zayer from middle school.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, hold up, how did he go to school? Well,

293
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 2: he seven years older than him, So they conversed him

294
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Speaker 2: and say, oh nah, now he must have just say

295
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Speaker 2: you see him around the school. I'm like, come on now.

296
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Speaker 1: And Carol Laughlin's testimony had problems as well.

297
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Speaker 2: Her statement about how the dude died don't even match

298
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Speaker 2: up with that this forensic evidence in the case she

299
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Speaker 2: talking about she seen the guy get shot while he

300
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Speaker 2: was standing up. The forensic evant said, the dude got

301
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Speaker 2: shot while he was on the ground, laying on the ground.

302
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Speaker 2: And then you got Lilian Davis, lets me standing right

303
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Speaker 2: next to Cheryl Laughlin. Loily and David said she couldn't

304
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Speaker 2: see nobody's face, and Karl was standing right next to

305
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Speaker 2: her saying the guy ran up to her, and she

306
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 2: got like, what Lillian and David didn't say that, So

307
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Speaker 2: why y'all story's not adding up? She giving a totally

308
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Speaker 2: different counts. So I'm like, come on now, and they

309
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Speaker 2: still let this lady check the fire lie on me.

310
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Speaker 1: But Lance still had his alibi witnesses, his girlfriend and mother,

311
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Speaker 1: and then my lawyer never called.

312
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Speaker 2: Her in there, So they tell you got a thing.

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Speaker 2: They tell you said the witness cannot be in trial,

314
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Speaker 2: have my mother sit outside of trial the whole time,

315
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Speaker 2: And I'm like, why are you doing? Why you didn't

316
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Speaker 2: call my mother? Might behaved.

317
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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, loved ones are often easy to impeach as willing

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Speaker 1: to lie, But now neither of the women he loved

319
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Speaker 1: could support him through what happened next.

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Speaker 2: Going to the end of trial, and the jury sent

321
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Speaker 2: a note to the judge just may tell and the

322
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 2: one note was like, we want to read all the

323
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 2: witness is testimony back over again. And he basically told

324
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Speaker 2: them they couldn't do that because they don't have a

325
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Speaker 2: video of a witness testimony yet. And he told them

326
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Speaker 2: it's gonna take it longer to read it over than

327
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Speaker 2: it was before. So I'm like, why would he say that,

328
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Speaker 2: Why would he tell him something gonna take longer. Joey

329
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,200
Speaker 2: don't want to be there that long anyway. The don't

330
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Speaker 2: want to hear that word longer period. So he told

331
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Speaker 2: him go back in there. After that, it was like

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Speaker 2: just to the all charges. They feel like you're getting

333
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 2: the air knocked out of you, like and this is

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Speaker 2: gonna be my life for the rest of my life.

335
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Speaker 2: They sent me in the Jersey State Prison, you know

336
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Speaker 2: what I mean, the Maximwell President in Jersey. So get here,

337
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 2: get quarantine for a week. Then they send me to

338
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Speaker 2: another unit. Call for a right man. This for a

339
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 2: right unit. It's like an old horse people. I don't

340
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,959
Speaker 2: know if you know if anything about this prison right here,

341
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,239
Speaker 2: the West compound, this prison when they first built this thing,

342
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 2: and two hundred years ago, two d fify years ago.

343
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Speaker 2: This thing is old. Man, it's crazy. And I'm like, whoa,

344
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Speaker 2: you got me standing the horse people. It's crazy. Like

345
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Speaker 2: it's like I was like messed up in the head

346
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Speaker 2: when I've seen this stuff. It's still old in here,

347
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You got to actually go

348
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Speaker 2: to the bathroom in a metal box in the wall,

349
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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's crazy. It's it's terrible. Man. Man,

350
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Speaker 2: They've been supposed to condemn this spot right here when

351
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 2: I'm at but yeah, it's spooky here, man, crazy, it's crazy.

352
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Speaker 2: It's not to laugh, but I laugh to keep myself

353
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Speaker 2: in crying. Man.

354
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Speaker 1: Serious, it is serious. They've got these men staying in

355
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Speaker 1: what looks like a horse stable, in a structure that

356
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 1: was built during the era of slavery, which really has

357
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 1: never ended since. According to the thirteenth Amendment, both he

358
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 1: and Ziara could now be put to work next to

359
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 1: everyone else in prison for free, so in their effort

360
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 1: to escape enslavement. On appeal, they pointed out that Kim

361
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 1: had entered into another plea agreement with the prosecution just

362
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 1: four days after their trial, which certainly called his credibility

363
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: into question.

364
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Speaker 2: They had us on the feel at Saint Tom he

365
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 2: only had kim Lan on him. I had two people

366
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 2: on you know what I mean. They gave him a

367
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480
Speaker 2: new trial. They're not my teal. And then when he

368
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 2: got a new trial, he went back to court and

369
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,159
Speaker 2: he was like, he was telling me, like, they're not

370
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: playing fair. They're not trying to hear us our side

371
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 2: of the story. They still think we built the other stuff.

372
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Speaker 2: So he like they flowed us once. So he said,

373
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Speaker 2: I'm not going back to drought. I'm taking a deal.

374
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Speaker 2: He went back at a good deal again, I think

375
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Speaker 2: sixty years, which is still.

376
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Speaker 1: So wrong, but at least not as harsh as the

377
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Speaker 1: life sentence. Lance still had to fight.

378
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 2: Yes, what they tell you first come down. You gotta

379
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 2: fight for your life, man. You gotta tell all library

380
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: and get the knowledge and understand it of your case

381
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,640
Speaker 2: and try to know the law. That's what I did.

382
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 1: Lance filed a post conviction relief motion based on ineffective

383
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: assistance of Council, raising how trial council failed to elicit

384
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 1: from Jacob Eller that he told the prosecutor that he'd

385
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 1: lied in his original statement, as well as that trial

386
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: council knew about the Kim's post trial plea deal but

387
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,719
Speaker 1: failed to confront him with it. Additionally, that trial council

388
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 1: failed to present his alibi or alternate suspects. Apparently there

389
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 1: were witnesses who named two other individuals that went by

390
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 1: Ghostface and Romulus, but since the evidence to support these

391
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: claims were not properly developed or presented in the post

392
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 1: conviction motion, it was denied in twenty eleven.

393
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 2: So denied so much. And after a while he used

394
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: to be come numb to it when you get by

395
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: time to get to the Feds and the hey, you

396
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 2: come numb to it, like it's gonna be my life.

397
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 2: But I had a feeling. I was like, man, I

398
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 2: just had to keep going, keep fighting. I can't lay down.

399
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: So I had to get Affidavid and proved to him

400
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: that I had people become a court on my behalf.

401
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: So I look at Affi David and submit that in

402
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: court and show him, like listen what I had. I

403
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 2: gave it to the lawyer. He never submitted it, you know,

404
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: I mean, he never investigated by alibi. So they sent

405
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: it back on her. Farsel Remaan on that in twenty twenty.

406
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: It was like an everdiction here. It proved to him

407
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: that I told my attorney about my alibi. So that's

408
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 2: what they send it back on. I got that open

409
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: right now waiting on that. And at the same time,

410
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: that's what I've heard about what Justin did with toront

411
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 2: Hill attorney.

412
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: And friend of the show, Justin Bonus one relief for

413
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 1: another innocent man out of Camden Tarren Hill, and from

414
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: his case he discovered a whole host of others that

415
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 1: involved Martin Devlin, single photo identifications and incentivized or coerced

416
00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: false testimony.

417
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: Tomorrow told them about me. Another guy's in here, and

418
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 2: that's how we ran, In suggested, and Justin, I'm like, man,

419
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 2: he did God answer my prayer? Because I need help.

420
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 3: Justin Bonus, Lance's attorney hired a private investigator named Bill Trump,

421
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: who was able to track down both Carol Laughlin and

422
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 3: THEA Kim, who both admitted that the police essentially told

423
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 3: them what to say, and they repeated the police's instructions.

424
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 4: THEA Kim said, I've never seen Lance in my life.

425
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,360
Speaker 2: This has happened in twenty twenty three, when Via Kim

426
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: recanned his statement and saying, Hi, he was cohersed by

427
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: all the investigators because he was a probation. The effective nay,

428
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: he said, if you didn't say what we want to say,

429
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 2: we want to Valley said, probation.

430
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 4: I believe the police said something to the effect of, luck,

431
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 4: we can make this all go away if you say

432
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 4: that you know this guy, and so that's what he did.

433
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: Charl Lughton basically said the same thing Kim said because

434
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: she didn't really want to talk. But she's basically said

435
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 2: to the investigator, she did what they told her to do.

436
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, we already know. Carol Laughlin

437
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: was unreliable as she was inconsistent over three interviews and

438
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: trial testimony. Her narrative conflicted with both the forensic evidence

439
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: as well as Lily and Davis, who was allegedly standing

440
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: right next to her during the crime. In addition, she

441
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: only decided to name Lance in exchange for leniency in

442
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: her own charges. In addition to THEA Kim and Carol Loughland,

443
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: the private investigator spoke with new witnesses Londa Lane and

444
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: Keith Pennington.

445
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: Investigator William Trump. He when got statement for me, I

446
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 2: wouldn't stand that he was here at the time to

447
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 2: try on happened, and he knew I wasn't there.

448
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Jacob Eller could not be located. But we know

449
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: that the prosecution was motivated to create a video on

450
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: the day before trial with Eller saying that he didn't

451
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: want to testify out of fear of reprisal, which came

452
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: in handy to make trial council back off and cross

453
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: examination and would have been useful if Eller chose to

454
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: recant on the witness stand. So, while this has all

455
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: been added to an amended petition, Lance sought clemency from

456
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 1: the governor.

457
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we've actually had some pretty good news. His

458
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: sentence was commuted by Governor Murphy of New Jersey, which

459
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: we think is a huge deal. There were thousands of

460
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 3: clemency applications and he only granted a couple hundred. I

461
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 3: think he'll be eligible for parole beginning in twenty thirty.

462
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 4: As part of his commutation, he's also being moved to

463
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 4: a lower security facility.

464
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 3: Obviously, this is not a total exoneration, which is what

465
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 3: we would desire for him, but given that the alternative

466
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 3: is a life in prison. We're really excited that the

467
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: end is in sight for him and his family.

468
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 4: You know, when you sit across from Lance and Lance's

469
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 4: mom and Lance's brother, and at the documentary screening we

470
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 4: were sat in the road just in front of his niece,

471
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 4: and when you see how this wrongal incarceration is so

472
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: brutal on the family, that like, this is an experience

473
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 4: that will never leave me and that will always always

474
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 4: inform how I go about my business with integrity. Compare

475
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 4: right now, I'm a paralegal in a prosecutor's office and

476
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 4: I'm considering it. You know, longer term, the worst thing

477
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 4: that you can do as a prosecutor, hands down, is

478
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: what these people have done to Lance.

479
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 5: Julia, you know, how has your idea of the criminal

480
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 5: legal system changed from you know, doing this course in

481
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 5: Lance's case.

482
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: It's such a cliche, but it's cliche because it's true.

483
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 3: I really think it's just laid bare for me how

484
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: broken the criminal legal system is and how it's stacked

485
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: against poor people, black people, people who don't have resources.

486
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: And for me, I would say, I'm considering a path

487
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: in public defense, and I think, just like one of

488
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: The most important kind of moral imperatives I see is

489
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: the right to an effective assistance of counsel, and Lance

490
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 3: was not given that, and so many people are simply

491
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 3: not given that. This case really just elucidated for me

492
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: how much is broken in our system, and how really

493
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: what so many people need are just advocates and people

494
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: to not only tell their stories, but also people to

495
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 3: listen to their stories. I think that's something that's so

496
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: special about making an exonery. There's been a really high

497
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: success rate of people who have been able to walk

498
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 3: out of prison in the years following their participation in

499
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: this program. For every person who's been able to walk

500
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 3: out of prison, there are still plenty of program participants

501
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: who remain incarcerated to this day. But I think while

502
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 3: it's not a solution, but just having a room full

503
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: of one hundred people watch your documentary and hear your

504
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: story and have your story told in your words, on

505
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: your own terms, I think for a lot of the

506
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: participants in this program, that's just the really special experience

507
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: and a transformative one.

508
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: What made you guys want to choose making an exonery

509
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 5: as something you were going to pursue.

510
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 4: I first learned about making an exonerate from a friend

511
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 4: who took the class at Georgetown a year or two

512
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: before and had just like rave reviews about it, and

513
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: she actually went on to work for the program in

514
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 4: the years after she graduated, and so when it finally

515
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 4: came to Princeton, she said to me, look, Nelson, you

516
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 4: have to do this. The two lawyers who are teaching

517
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 4: the class, who are Chelsea and Malkin and Yosha Gunnessikhara,

518
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 4: They're incredible. They are really kind people who are going

519
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 4: to like really ignite a passion in you for defense work,

520
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 4: which they did. I mean, they were amazing, and just

521
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 4: having the experience of working with a wrongfully convicted person,

522
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 4: their family, going to the prison, these are all experiences

523
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 4: that are incredibly transformative. You know, there's a lot of

524
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: people who you know in college are rightly really passionate about,

525
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 4: you know, criminal defense, but there's probably pretty few actually

526
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: who go to a prison to speak with incarcerated people there.

527
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 4: And so to be able to have really tangible experiences

528
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: like that is invaluable as we sort of take these

529
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 4: sort of first steps in our very nascent careers.

530
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for both of us we took this

531
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 3: course our senior spring, so it was one of the

532
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 3: final courses that we took during undergrad and I think

533
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 3: for me, I just was looking for something that could

534
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: make me feel like I was leaving college and going

535
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 3: out into the world and actually doing something important that

536
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 3: wasn't just reading and discussing in a classroom, but that

537
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: I could actually have an experience where I could help

538
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 3: someone and knows a lot of work. Both of us

539
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 3: were writing our THESS while we were also going to

540
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: Philly and Camden every weekend to see Lance and to

541
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: conduct interviews and visit the crime scene. And so it

542
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: was definitely quite the chaotic spring, but also so so

543
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: rewarding in the end.

544
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: We definitely hope to see great things from both of

545
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: you in the future. We'll also link to the documentary

546
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: that you both made about this case in the episode description,

547
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: along with contact information for his attorney. Justin bonus well,

548
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: the commutation to an earlier parole eligibility is progress. Lance

549
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: should not be spending another minute in prison, let alone

550
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: another five or ten years. So we are begging if

551
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: anyone out there has information, please come forward.

552
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta be a blessing. I get more information

553
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: not like somebody came forth like a month ago. The

554
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: dude they're suposed to did the crime locked up for

555
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: becausessed him. They did the crime. The investigator will of

556
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: Trump talked to him also. He told the merry thing

557
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: like it was, I was locked up with this guy

558
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: ball in the fence and he told me everything that

559
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: he did about this crime. He got two innocent guys

560
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: locked up, and that was a blessed. I got that

561
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: statement open that you have one good minute remaining. So

562
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: it's a blessing. It's blessed that you guys are doing.

563
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: It is to bring more life to the situation that

564
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm marry. You know, I mean exposed stuff that was

565
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: done in the dark. You know, I mean to my situation.

566
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you guys are bringing a delight

567
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: to the situation, you know what I mean. So I'm

568
00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: thankful for working with you, you know what I mean,

569
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: and any anybody else to do the work out, bring

570
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: the truth out.

571
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 5: I thank you, thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction

572
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 5: with Maggie Freeling. I'd like to thank our production team

573
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as executive producers

574
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 5: Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wortis, and Jeff Clyburn. The

575
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 5: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR

576
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 5: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across

577
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 5: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at

578
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 5: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on all platforms

579
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 5: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a

580
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 5: production of Lava for Good podcast in association with the

581
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 5: Signal Company Number One.

582
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

583
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: in this show are accurate.

584
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 4: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in

585
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 4: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect

586
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: those of Lava for Good