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Speaker 1: A college student in an intern with her life before her.

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Speaker 1: Helene Paschynski gets off the bus. How many times have

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Speaker 1: I taken the bus back and forth to work in

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Speaker 1: New York. You get off, your hands are full, you

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Speaker 1: had a backpack, a pocketbook, sometimes tons of working your hands,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly, out of nowhere, you're attacked, likely from behind.

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Speaker 1: I can just see somebody grabbing her by her backpack

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Speaker 1: and slinging her around. And then she's raped, raped, brutally

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Speaker 1: raped in the outdoors in the elements. And she wasn't

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Speaker 1: just murdered. This young girl was murdered nine times over,

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Speaker 1: as I recall from the medical examiner's report, stabbed nine

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Speaker 1: times in the back. I mean, see, Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us. And let

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Speaker 1: me tell you something. How many years Helene's family Endura

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As snow began to fall

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Speaker 1: in the field where the body of young Helen Pasinski

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Speaker 1: was found, obliterating any clues, authorities called off their search

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Speaker 1: of the area. Douglas County Sheriff's officers and investigators from

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Speaker 1: the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, aided by volunteers from the

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Speaker 1: Arapaho County search and rescue units spent much of the

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Speaker 1: morning combing the area, hoping to turn up something to

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Speaker 1: lead them to the girls murderer, but found nothing. Miss

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Speaker 1: Puskenski's body was found early Thursday. She'd been sexually assaulted

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Speaker 1: and stabbed a college student working as an intern in

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Speaker 1: the news department at KHOW Radio. She was last seen

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Speaker 1: Wednesday afternoon when she left work. Inglewood police also and

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Speaker 1: on the case have been concentrating their efforts near this

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Speaker 1: bus stop on South Broadway. It's believed that miss Passynski

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Speaker 1: got off her bus after work here Wednesday night. She

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Speaker 1: was abducted sometime after that. They've been talking with people

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Speaker 1: in the area looking for some clue, but so far

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Speaker 1: nothing and they're afraid if they don't find something soon,

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Speaker 1: they may not find anything at all. You are hearing

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Speaker 1: our friends at KUSA nine News. That was general reporter

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Speaker 1: Kevin Roberts. It's such a euphemism to say sex assaulted, abducted.

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Speaker 1: This is what happened. This young girl, a college student

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Speaker 1: in an intern with her life before her. Helene Passeynski

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Speaker 1: gets off the bus and then she's raped and murdered.

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all Star panel to break it down,

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Speaker 1: put it back together again. Mark Tate, renowned attorney, joining

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Speaker 1: me out of the Savannah jurisdiction. Bruce Johnson, the owner

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Speaker 1: of ESP Investigations, Master Sergeant, Region one Crime Scene Commander, Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and let me tell you, in Chicago, they've never got

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Speaker 1: a lack of business. Karen Stark, psychologist, joining me out

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Speaker 1: of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen Stark dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Erie County Medical

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Speaker 1: Examiner's Office in Buffalo and New York. Nickel City Forensics.

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Speaker 1: But right now straight out to Levi Page, investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: with Crime online dot Com. Levite, let's just start where

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Speaker 1: every investigation starts, and that is I already know she's

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Speaker 1: at a bus stop right there. That gives me a

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Speaker 1: whole bus load of potential suspects. And everybody around that

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Speaker 1: bus stop. That's a lot of suspects. Not only that

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Speaker 1: she was an Internet khow how many nuts know about

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Speaker 1: her through the radio where she was working. Nancy she

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old. She's a senior at Wheaton College

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Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, and she moved to Colorado in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: to be an intern at KHOW Radio. It's located in Denver,

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Speaker 1: and she wanted to be a journalist and she was

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Speaker 1: on the road to becoming when Nancy she'd been in

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Speaker 1: Colorado for two weeks and she stayed with her and uncle.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, she'd only been there two weeks. Yes,

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Speaker 1: two weeks, oh man, Okay, did you say she's living

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Speaker 1: with her aunt and uncle. Yes, they lived about forty

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Speaker 1: miles south of Denver, so she would use the bus

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Speaker 1: to commute to and from her internship. Okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Karen Stark a forty mile bus ride

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Speaker 1: each way to work, you know, and then she gets

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Speaker 1: off the bus after work after a what an hour

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Speaker 1: plus commute because you know, the buses stop and every

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Speaker 1: you know, taken many a greyhound bus, and then this happens.

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Speaker 1: This was probably the furthest thing from her mind. You know,

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Speaker 1: a young girl have this job, to be successful, to

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Speaker 1: lose to a different place, ambitious, and she's getting off

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Speaker 1: of bus, totally innocent and winds us brutally murdered, raped

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Speaker 1: and did okay, hold on, you know, LEVI, I may

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Speaker 1: have missed it. But where did you say she was from?

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Speaker 1: She was from Massachusetts. That's where she was originally from,

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Speaker 1: away from everything she knew. Okay, back to the story,

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Speaker 1: So do you know what time of the day or

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Speaker 1: night it was? It was in the evening. She just

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Speaker 1: gotten off work, so it was around six pm and

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Speaker 1: she had got off the bus stop Nancy, and she

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Speaker 1: had to walk five blocks to get to her aunt

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Speaker 1: and uncle's home and she never made it up. Okay,

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Speaker 1: five blocks is not that far, But that brings me

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Speaker 1: to another issue. To Bruce Johnson, owner ESP Investigations, a

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Speaker 1: scene commander in Chicago Metro, that's not easy, Bruce, five

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Speaker 1: blocks now, right now, we have a whole haystack for

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Speaker 1: them to dig through looking for that needle, which is

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Speaker 1: our suspect. Five blocks. While it's not really a long

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Speaker 1: way to walk, I remember walking home from Court TV

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Speaker 1: was about am almost a twenty block walk one way,

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Speaker 1: but a five block walk actually is plenty of time

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Speaker 1: for someone to be waiting if someone had been watching

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Speaker 1: her and her route. But also, Bruce, she only had

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Speaker 1: been there two weeks, so I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: someone could have been watching her movements. It sounds more

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Speaker 1: like a crime of opportunity exactly. That's what I think

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Speaker 1: too that from the crime scene to where she's getting

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Speaker 1: off the bus. You know, when you're first initially looking

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Speaker 1: at this whole thing, that's a lot of area to cover.

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Speaker 1: But once you focus from where she gets off the bus,

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Speaker 1: if you can narrow it down to where she gets

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Speaker 1: off and that five block area, then it becomes manageable.

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Speaker 1: Now you could manage that area, and you could find

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Speaker 1: out her short routine in that two week time frame,

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Speaker 1: and you could get narrowed in on a specific area. Okay,

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Speaker 1: are you saying that five blocks it shouldn't be too

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Speaker 1: hard for police? Did you charm of her exact path? Exactly? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that should be. That's not a lot area to cover.

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Speaker 1: But remember back then they didn't have cameras, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have all the technology that we have there, So you

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Speaker 1: would be knocking on doors, you would be doing different

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Speaker 1: things than you would today. And did I get this right?

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Speaker 1: LEVI page joining me investigate a reporter with crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com. LEVI, I understand that snow obscured her body

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Speaker 1: for a period of time. This is a yes? No?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? You're correct? So what about that? Joining me?

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned? Doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Emmy and

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Speaker 1: Erie County. Also at New York Nicols City Forensics doctor

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Speaker 1: Katherine Maloney, how would that affect the not only the

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Speaker 1: discovery of her body, but would it preserve her body

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Speaker 1: or would it hurt in some way the autopsy that's

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Speaker 1: to come. Well, anytime there's a delay between a person's

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Speaker 1: death and when an autopsy happens, it always makes it

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Speaker 1: more difficult in order to terminique the cause and manner

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Speaker 1: of death. Take a listen to our friends at KUSA nine.

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Speaker 1: This is Kevin Roberts first forty forty eight hours. I'd

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Speaker 1: say are probably very critical in terms of the kinds

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Speaker 1: of information that you receive and the amount of it

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Speaker 1: may very well be just that information which will identify

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Speaker 1: a suspect or identify an individual who was in the area.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of difficult, I guess. You know, you might

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Speaker 1: try to liken it to anyone who's asked to say, well,

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Speaker 1: what did you see around noon two days ago? And

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Speaker 1: that's a very difficult thing to try to remember. So

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Speaker 1: we make as many contacts as we can immediately after

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Speaker 1: a thing like this in an effort to try to

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Speaker 1: talk with people when their memories are still in focus.

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Speaker 1: And that they can remember substantial information. The radio station

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Speaker 1: where missus Pasinski worked has offered a reward for information

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Speaker 1: leading to the conviction of her killer, and law enforcement

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Speaker 1: officers are asking that anyone with any information called the

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Speaker 1: Colorado Bureau of Investigation. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Here's

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Speaker 1: a twenty one year old girl who left college a

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Speaker 1: small little town of Massachusetts to come to Colorado to

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Speaker 1: internship at KIHAU Radio and was only here two weeks

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Speaker 1: and was abducted at some time coming home from work,

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Speaker 1: raped and murdered in Douglas County, and left. This is

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Speaker 1: a young girl who was just starting her life, came

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Speaker 1: to Colorado to have an opportunity to make a difference.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to be in journalism. She wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a part of a bigger story. She was involved in

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Speaker 1: her choir at home, and from all accounts and everyone

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Speaker 1: had anything to say about her, it was just a wonderful, decent,

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Speaker 1: nice young lady, and it's important that we talk about

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Speaker 1: her as much as we can. You're hearing the Douglas

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff Tony Spurlock speaking very disturbing a young girl

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Speaker 1: just starting her life, only in the New City two

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Speaker 1: weeks before she's snatched off a public bus, raped in

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Speaker 1: the elements, and stabbed nine times in the bat and

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Speaker 1: then to add insult to injury, no arrest is made.

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Speaker 1: Back to crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page,

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Speaker 1: Levi now, I heard the sheriff earlier say they were

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Speaker 1: questioning witnesses, potential witnesses. Where were you at noon? But

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Speaker 1: I thought you said this happened in the evening. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it happened in the evening when she out off of work. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so maybe he was just speaking about the mechanics of

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Speaker 1: an investigation. The first thing you do an investigation is

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Speaker 1: you search for the body, of course, and apparently, as

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Speaker 1: I was going to point out, her body was obscured

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Speaker 1: by snow, how many days passed before her body was found? Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it was snow in the area, but it didn't actually

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Speaker 1: take them that long to discover the body. It was

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Speaker 1: discovered the next day, So within twenty four hours her

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Speaker 1: body was discovered and wasn't, in fact, on the walk

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Speaker 1: from the bus to the aunt's home. Yes, it was

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Speaker 1: in a field, in a field. Hunt. That tells me

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Speaker 1: a lot, actually. Bruce Johnson, owner ESP Investigations. So when

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Speaker 1: we say five blocks, we're not talking about city blocks

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Speaker 1: where you're passing one apartment building after the next, after

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Speaker 1: the next, and then you pass at a Gastinos and

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Speaker 1: then you pass this, and then you pass that. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about walking a rural route. Now, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: that makes it actually easier and more difficult. Easier because

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Speaker 1: there are less people and more difficult because there are

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Speaker 1: less people, less witnesses that's correct, yeah, to see what happened,

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Speaker 1: but also less people to identify as a suspect. So

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Speaker 1: what do you think about that, Breece Johnson. Yes, with

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Speaker 1: the being in a in a rural area, as you said,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be less congested, less traffic. It'd be

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Speaker 1: easier to look at normal routines of you know, how

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Speaker 1: busy it is there their rush hour traffic in their

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Speaker 1: downtown area or in this area, versus in the city,

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Speaker 1: in a highly populated area where traffic and people are

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Speaker 1: coming going more rapidly, more people are coming on buses

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Speaker 1: and transportation. Out in the rural area, you may only

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Speaker 1: have the bus routes coming, you know, once an hour,

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Speaker 1: where in the city they may be every every twenty minute,

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Speaker 1: dury fifteen minutes, so you'll be able to get those

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Speaker 1: patterns of the bus of you know, rural area type

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Speaker 1: activity a lot easier. Another question, to you leave ipage,

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Speaker 1: climb online dot com invest to get every reporter. So

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Speaker 1: it took a full twenty four hours before her body

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Speaker 1: was found. I find that significant and I don't understand

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Speaker 1: why because she was only five blots as the crow

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Speaker 1: flies for the bus stop to her home. So was

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Speaker 1: her body in route or had she been abducted and

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Speaker 1: taken away? Where was her body found? As it relates

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Speaker 1: to the bus stop, The body was found in a field.

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Speaker 1: It was away from the bus stop and away from

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Speaker 1: the route that she would take to get home. Interesting, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's telling me a lot. Joining me, Mark Tay, renowned

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Speaker 1: attorney joining me out of the Savannah area. You can

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Speaker 1: find him at Tate Law dot com. Mark, you have

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Speaker 1: defended many, many cases. But what this is telling me,

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Speaker 1: if her body really was a distance away from the

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Speaker 1: route between the bus stop and the home, is that

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Speaker 1: the person had a vehicle, a vehicle that she was

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Speaker 1: put in and taken. This isn't somebody standing behind a

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Speaker 1: tree that jumps out when she goes by and she's

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Speaker 1: dragged off in the bushes. This is somebody that got

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Speaker 1: her in a vehicle based on where her body was found.

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Speaker 1: That changes things. What's a car enters the picture? You're

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Speaker 1: really up the creek without a paddle, because she could

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Speaker 1: have been taken anywhere by anybody, not somebody that lived

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Speaker 1: or worked along the route. See what I mean. It's

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Speaker 1: opening up a plethora of possibilities regarding suspects, right, And

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Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right that this appears to me

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Speaker 1: to be more of a crime of opportunity. And I

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Speaker 1: think the thing that makes it more difficult here as well,

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Speaker 1: as we have a young girl who was fresh to

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Speaker 1: the community. It was still getting her bearings about where

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Speaker 1: to be, where it's okay to be, what may or

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Speaker 1: may not be suspicious, especially getting off smart te Hold

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Speaker 1: your horses. Are you trying to say it somehow her

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Speaker 1: fault because she didn't know the right way to walk home,

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Speaker 1: because it kind of sounds at absolutely not no, no,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it all takes It takes

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Speaker 1: us all time to learn our new location. I mean,

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Speaker 1: starting ninth grade in high school, you have to learn

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Speaker 1: and it takes you a moment to understand and to

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Speaker 1: get your bearings, saying anyway, she walked into a into

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Speaker 1: a situation that she should have known as dangerous. Well,

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Speaker 1: now you're not. You got to get used to where

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Speaker 1: you're going. You're bearing what I mean, you make a

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Speaker 1: lot of oral arguments because you just slithered out of

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Speaker 1: that one really really well, I guess you've argued in

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Speaker 1: front of the Georgia Supreme Court and the Georgia a

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Speaker 1: Pellet Court. Right. Well, we've done a lot of different

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Speaker 1: appeals work, but not usually on behalf of criminal defendants.

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Speaker 1: You know, if they're not guilty and they're inappropriately accused,

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Speaker 1: we generally have been successful in demonstrating that to prosecutors

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Speaker 1: and they don't continue with their efforts passed and indictment.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you know what, Mark's Hey, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna leave that where it is because I got

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Speaker 1: bigger I got bigger fish to fry. Back to Helene

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Speaker 1: Prasinski just twenty one years old, Leavi Page joining me

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Speaker 1: from crime online. So now I believe that the got

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Speaker 1: her in a car? How could nobody see that happen?

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Speaker 1: But okay, that is a whole nother canon worms for

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Speaker 1: me to figure out. But I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: her body now. Her body was covered in snow. And

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Speaker 1: although you tell me the snow was intermittent, Levi, Page

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Speaker 1: I have been told that the snow concealed her body.

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Speaker 1: She was out in the elements over twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: We believe now it's all that, correct, Levi. You're correct, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And when she was discovered, Nancy, she was stabbed nine times,

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Speaker 1: partially clothed, and she had her hands tied together behind

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Speaker 1: her back, obviously to restrain her. Okay, hold on. Every

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Speaker 1: time I taught you, I'll learned something new. I mean

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Speaker 1: something significant, Levi, Because Karen Start, now that I know

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Speaker 1: her hands are tied behind her back. This guy came

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Speaker 1: loaded for bear. It's not that he just saw her

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Speaker 1: walking along and got an urge to rape somebody. I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget, Karen Start. And I told you about this

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Speaker 1: when we were sitting on the set at Court TV.

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Speaker 1: There was a burglary that turned into a rape, or

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Speaker 1: at least that's what the defense would have me believe.

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Speaker 1: But the defendant gave a statement and he said, well,

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Speaker 1: miss Grace, I went in to steal a TV and

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Speaker 1: this she came in and you know what, can I say,

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Speaker 1: a little nature got up. I think he was trying

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Speaker 1: to say he got an erection and he raped the woman.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is, I don't I think every

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Speaker 1: rape is planned. I don't think it just happens the

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Speaker 1: way defendants would have you believe. But that's always stuck

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Speaker 1: in my mind. He said that, looking right at me

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Speaker 1: with a straight face. Too. Now this guy karen bound her,

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Speaker 1: I think LEVI I just said her hands were still

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Speaker 1: bound behind her back. This guy came with zip ties

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Speaker 1: or robes or our hosiery or something to bind her,

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Speaker 1: torture her, rape her, and kill her. What's the mindset

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Speaker 1: of a guy like this? Well, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I think every rape is planned. And the reason that

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Speaker 1: I'm agreeing with you is I think that the personality

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Speaker 1: of someone who is going to commit that crime is

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Speaker 1: such that they are just ready and waiting for their victim.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't happen that all of the k of course,

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Speaker 1: he's ready awaiting. But what I'm saying is the mindset.

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Speaker 1: This is a guy. And this is classic example. I've

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Speaker 1: told it to a jury. When you are walking along,

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Speaker 1: let's just pretend. Let's say you're joining me from a

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Speaker 1: hat and you're walking along Central Park with your husband,

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Speaker 1: and you see a little rabbit hop across the path

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Speaker 1: in front of you. Your instinct is what to go

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Speaker 1: chase it down and tear it's neck out with your teeth. No,

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Speaker 1: your instinct would be to try to pet the little guy. Right,

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Speaker 1: this guy, this killer, this rapist is different than all

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Speaker 1: of us crime stories with Nancy Grace Helene Prusinski, just

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old, moves away from home, crosses the

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Speaker 1: country for her big break in media. She is working

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Speaker 1: at a local radio station, khow only living with her

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Speaker 1: aunt and uncle. Two weeks before she is kidnapped, brutally raped,

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Speaker 1: tied up, murdered, her body lining the snow overnight before

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Speaker 1: it was discovered the next day. Why and how in

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Speaker 1: the hey did the killer get away? Right now to

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Speaker 1: doctor Katherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Erie County in Buffalo.

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Speaker 1: You can also find her at Nicols City Forensics. Doctor Maloney, again,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. When you see nine

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Speaker 1: stab wounds to the back, can you even tell which

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Speaker 1: one was the mortal wound? Generally, when you do the autopsy,

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Speaker 1: you can see on the inside which organs were injured,

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Speaker 1: and so based on the organs that are injured, that

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Speaker 1: will let you know which wound is the fatal stab wound.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised in a case like this if

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Speaker 1: multiple vital organs ended up being injured, So probably more

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Speaker 1: than one of the STA was potentially fetled. Question, do

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Speaker 1: you believe Helene was targeted or was this a random act?

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Speaker 1: Now keep in mind what we know so far. He

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Speaker 1: drove to the location, he was prepared with either zip tized, rope, stalking,

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Speaker 1: something like that to tie her up. He threw her

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Speaker 1: body out in a field. What does that say? Why

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Speaker 1: a field? Why that field? Because I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: doctor Karen Stark, as we always say, perfect example Scott Peterson.

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Speaker 1: People go where they are familiar. For instance, Scott Peterson

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Speaker 1: murdered his wife Lacy. Then what did he do. He's

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Speaker 1: a fisherman. He dumps her body in the San Francisco

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Speaker 1: Bay where he fishes. He knows where to go. This

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Speaker 1: person may have had an intimate knowledge of this field.

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Speaker 1: But do you think she was targeted or was he

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Speaker 1: looking for anybody to rape and murder? There? It was

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Speaker 1: a chance Nancy because she was taking that same bus

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Speaker 1: that he was focused on her. But there's no doubt

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Speaker 1: that it could have been anybody that he found because

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Speaker 1: he came prepared, he had whatever he bound her with.

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Speaker 1: So he has a personality where he can only enjoy

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Speaker 1: sex that way, he's looking for anybody to do this with.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say enjoy sex? How can you put

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Speaker 1: the words enjoy sex and the same sentence with bind torture? Right? Murder?

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Speaker 1: Because that's that's his particular illness that you think it's

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Speaker 1: an illness. He's not like most people. This is something

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Speaker 1: that he does enjoy or he wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: do it. What would you call that? What's the psychiatric

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Speaker 1: or the psychological term for that? Sato mass psychopathic happened?

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Speaker 1: He has a sex a sexual perversion, and his perversion

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Speaker 1: is killing. Would you call him a sadistic killer? Is

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Speaker 1: he a sadist? And what is a sadist? Yes, a

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Speaker 1: sadist is someone who enjoys in swifting pain. So yes,

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Speaker 1: he's a sadistic killer. Mrk Tate, you represent clients of

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Speaker 1: all sorts. I'm telling you right now, this is not

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Speaker 1: his first time at the rodeo, because you don't show

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Speaker 1: up in a car with zip tides or whatever he

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Speaker 1: used managed to kidnap person, do her, take her to

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Speaker 1: another location, and go this many years without being caught.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you he knew what he was doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I completely agree with that. Absolutely. I represented a number

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Speaker 1: of young women here in Savannah, one of whose case

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Speaker 1: went to trial and we got a ten million dollars

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Speaker 1: verdict against the place where she was raped. But one

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Speaker 1: thing that I disagree with all of the sexual abuse

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Speaker 1: cases that I've had representing victims of priest abuse victims

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Speaker 1: and the boy scouts, these poor ladies who were kidnapped

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Speaker 1: and raped here off of college campuses and out of

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Speaker 1: hospital parking lots, is that in dealing with the perpetrators,

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Speaker 1: it's more about dominance and control than it is about

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Speaker 1: sexual gratification. And of course there are exceptions to every

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Speaker 1: you know, stated rule or perception, but in general, I'm

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Speaker 1: I think you got to be careful in concluding that

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Speaker 1: this is the guy's the way he's sexually I guess aroused. Actually, wait,

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Speaker 1: I want to say that I agree with you, but

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Speaker 1: I think that that's part of it as well. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Mark in a nutshell, you agree disagree in the

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Speaker 1: sense that what we all agree he's a serial rapist.

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Speaker 1: So what are you disagreeing about. I'm disagreeing that this

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Speaker 1: is about about sexual intercourse. I believe that, based on

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Speaker 1: my experience, that this is about dominance, control, domination. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't even all on Karen start because she said

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Speaker 1: enjoy sex in the middle of all this, in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a brutal murder, in rape, she managed to

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Speaker 1: work those two words in, And I agree with you,

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Speaker 1: Mark Tay. I also agree with her first time Nancy. Okay, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: scratch that, get get rid of that. Get that off

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Speaker 1: the record quickly. I don't want that on my resume.

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Speaker 1: Another thing I don't understand is how the case has

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Speaker 1: gone this long, this many decades without being solved. Bruce,

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Speaker 1: do you think this particular woman was targeted or do

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Speaker 1: you think this was just a guy out looking for

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Speaker 1: anybody that he could snatch off the street rape and murder.

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Speaker 1: I've actually had a case that was very similar to this,

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Speaker 1: except it was in a hotel room, but found in

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Speaker 1: arms tied behind her back and propped up. And in

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Speaker 1: these type of cases, it's usually targeted. I think he

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Speaker 1: knew his victim, he targeted her and was ready to

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Speaker 1: go and just waiting for the right opportunity. To keep

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Speaker 1: in mind, it was also dark at six pm. In

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Speaker 1: the winter, with snow, it's dark a lot earlier, so

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Speaker 1: his stalking is a lot easier. And in a rural community. Again,

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Speaker 1: when you get into traffic patterns and things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: I think she's definitely targeted. So you think she was targeted,

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Speaker 1: and your number one reason for saying that is what

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Speaker 1: position of the body at death is a big factor.

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Speaker 1: That she was bound with her hands held behind her,

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Speaker 1: but he could have done that to anybody he wants,

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Speaker 1: any woman that was walking by. Was she specifically targeted?

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Speaker 1: I think that she was. Usually in these type of cases,

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Speaker 1: when you get all the way to the end of it,

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Speaker 1: ends up that they are almost all the time that

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Speaker 1: they're targeted. The chance of it being just a rural

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Speaker 1: happenstance that he just seen a girl get off the

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Speaker 1: bus and was determined that day to get it is

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Speaker 1: highly unlikely versus plotting it out and waiting for the victim.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, And the fact that I believe

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Speaker 1: he's a serial rapist indicates he's done this before, and

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Speaker 1: he has a plan and he stalks his victim like

427
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: a hunter would prey. After many, many years of the

428
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: family suffering nearly forty years, the murder of this young

429
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: co ed Helen Praczynski baffle old Colorado detectives. It languished

430
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: so long and their cold case filed that practically everybody

431
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: in her family died. But then one Thursday morning, her

432
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: sister Janet Johnson, gets a phone call. A prosecutor says,

433
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: homicide investigators had made a breakthrough thanks to genetic genealogy

434
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: and good old fashion police work. Take a listen to this.

435
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: It was a combination of DNA existing technology that was available.

436
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: But then the dogged police work work that brought them

437
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: to Clanton and his present day home. But they needed

438
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: a sample of his DNA. Fortunately, they quickly learned that

439
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: he was a regular at the Full House lounge in

440
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: Lake Butler on Fourth Avenue. We had been working with

441
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: Douglas County, Colorado surveyor this guy for some time and

442
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: their laboratory advised us, hey, y'allki grabbed his up and

443
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: we believe that we could get a DNA comparison detectives

444
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: follow Clanton into the full house no Up, getting his

445
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: beer boat and package, and senate to Colorado, a match

446
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: leading to his arrest outside his trailer on this property.

447
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: I believe once he saw us that he had he

448
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: felt lucky. Noticed past crime stories with Nancy Grace. Investigators

449
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: have had the killer's DNA for years, but with no

450
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: matches in the FBI's national database, they recently turned to

451
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: a new process known as genetic genealogy. We found people

452
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: that shared a lot of the same DNA former Denver

453
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: da Mitch Morrisey's company, United Data Connect started with those relatives.

454
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: Once we started working, the genealogy got coming down his

455
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: family tree. It appeared that his mother was a dead end,

456
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: which he wasn't found her two sons ruled one out,

457
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: then went to Florida and followed the other after surreptitiously

458
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: snagging his beer mug at a local bar. They had

459
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: it tested for DNA and those results led to the

460
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: arrest of James Curtis Clanton. You are hearing our pens

461
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: at KUSA nine, Denver. That was Kevin Vaughan we are

462
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: talking about as co ed senior at Wheaton College, Massachusetts,

463
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: going to her aunt's home after a long day at

464
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: work at a Denver radio station. She Will had crossed

465
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: the country, leaving Massachusetts traveling to Denver for a big

466
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: break in media. Her body, nude from the waist down,

467
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: her arms tied behind her, was discovered the next day

468
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: in a field that is now known as Highland Ranch, Colorado.

469
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: Years pass until finally a break in the case through

470
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: familial DNA Mailial DNA is only allowed in a handful

471
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: of states right now across our country. Typically, when prosecutors

472
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: try case is based on DNA evidence, which is true

473
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: like one in five trillion, that the perp is not

474
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: the one who belongs to this DNA. Familial DNA is.

475
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: Let's just do an example. Let's just say Jackie Howard

476
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: stabs LEVI page nine times in the back, and then

477
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: on that last stab, the hilt of the knife slips

478
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: and she cuts herself. Her DNA is found at the

479
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: crime scene. But Jackie Howard is not in the data bank,

480
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: she's not in codis, she's not in a fist. She's

481
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. So this is what cops do.

482
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: They run a familial DNA test. This is what happened

483
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: in the Golden State killer case, and they find all

484
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: kind of matches, let's just pretend through ancestry dot Com,

485
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: but it's not quite the match. So what they have

486
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: found or Jackie Howard's cousins, her aunts or uncles, anybody

487
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: blood related to her. Then they go start talking to

488
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: those people and one by one they figure out it's

489
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: Jackie Howard. That's what familial DNA is. And right now,

490
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: the Innescence Project, the Civil Liberties, they're all angry about

491
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: familial DNA. They say it's unconstitutional. But here's the reality.

492
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: Those relatives willingly. Police did not make them give their

493
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: DNA to ancestry dot com. The constitution protects you and

494
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: me against unreasonable force by police, not by you trying

495
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: to find out where your great grandparents came from. If

496
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: they came over from Ireland after the potato blight, that's

497
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: on you. If the cops make you do something without

498
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: a want is thrown out of court. But if you

499
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: sign up volunteerly to ancestry dot Com, constitution is not

500
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: protecting you. So all the challenges to familial DNA I

501
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: predict are going to be defeated. And that is how

502
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: this guy is found to Leavi Page, what do we

503
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: know about this guy in the eighties, he lived just

504
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: blocks from where the victim, Helene got off at the

505
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: bus stop. And his name is James Curtis Clinton. And

506
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: he actually has a criminal record in Arkansas, Nancy. In

507
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, he played guilty to raping a woman

508
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: at gunpoint. I knew her own phone. I knew it.

509
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: And when was that? It was in nineteen seventy five, Nancy,

510
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: And he had just got out of prison. He had

511
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: been out for a year when he killed Helene. Take

512
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at KUSA. This is Kevin Vaughn.

513
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: This is a young girl who was just starting her life.

514
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: Helene Prazynski had dreams of becoming a journalist. She was

515
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: living temporarily in Colorado for an internship at a radio

516
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: station when she disappeared nearly forty years ago. Helene's body

517
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: was found this morning in a field in Douglas County,

518
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: five miles away from a bus stop. Her body was

519
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: found beaten and raped. No one was ever arrested for

520
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: her death until now today. Authorities announced sixty two year

521
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: old James Curtis Clanton, who had been living in Florida

522
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: is charged in Helene's murder. It was a combination of

523
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: DNA existing technology that was available, but then the dog

524
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: and police work that was done that helped put the

525
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: pieces together for us to find that missing piece of

526
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: evidence to tie it all together. Helene was a student

527
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: at Wheaton College. She'd grown up in Hamilton. Her high

528
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: school boyfriend says she was a beautiful human being who

529
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: continues to inspire us, and after so many haunting uncertainties,

530
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: this is welcome news. DNA finally did the trick and

531
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: investigators didn't give up. They first identified this guy Clanton,

532
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: they convicted rapist through familial DNA. Then they started tracking

533
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: his every movement. They followed him. They knew it was

534
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: not going to submit to a DNA search warrant by

535
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: asking him, so what they did was follow him around

536
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: to surreptitiously get his DNA. And if you don't think

537
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: that's constitutional, let me tell you it is. First they

538
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: saw him discard a milk carton, but they couldn't get

539
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: any DNA from it. Then they followed him to a

540
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: bar where they said they were able to get his

541
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: DNA off of a beer mug that he had been

542
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: drinking and it matched up with the DNA he left

543
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: when he raped Prashynski Straight out to you, Mark Tate,

544
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 1: SAVINNA lawyer joining us, could you please explain why something

545
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: that has been abandoned, like a milk carton or a

546
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: beer mug at a bar, is that that's not a foul.

547
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: Cops can go and they can seize that abandoned item

548
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: and get your DNA off of it. Yeah, absolutely can.

549
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: And you know there's it's whether the questioning or investigation

550
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: involves something in which you have a reasonable expectation of privacy,

551
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: and you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy for

552
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: the things that you do in public. Just like an

553
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: officer can see the tag on your car and run

554
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: it and get who's driving that car and who's registered

555
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: to you don't have a reasonable expectation. Can I give

556
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: you a more relatable in my mind example? Did you

557
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: ever read the Inquirer? And one of my favorite articles

558
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: would be where they line up, for instance, Michael Jackson

559
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: or Elizabeth Taylor, whoever, doesn't matter. I just remember there's

560
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: all their trash and they take a picture of it

561
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: and say, oh, look, whoever ate ten cartons of ben

562
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: and Jerry's in one night. Yeah, no one, do you

563
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: abandon it? They can grab it. So long story short,

564
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: A sixty two year old truck driver arrested in Florida

565
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: for the rape and murder of this Colorado radio intern

566
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: just twenty one years old. This is after police used

567
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: ancestry dot com to find a suspect forty years later

568
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: to leave page leavi by. What happens now to this

569
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: sixty two year old truck driver, Well, Nancy, he has

570
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: been extradited to Colorado, and here's the charges that he's facing.

571
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: Felony murder predicated on an underlying crime of robbery and

572
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: felony murder predicated on an underlying crime of sexual assault.

573
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: This is what I know. This guy deserves the death penalty,

574
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: a serial rapist who murdered this young girl. If we're

575
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: gonna have the death penalty, he's a perfect candidate. Nancy

576
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: Gray's crime story, signing off, Goodbye friend,