WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: What was the most peaceful time in history? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.120 M Hi there, it's me Josh and for s Y 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.960 s K Selects. This week, I've chosen what was the 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.360 Most Peaceful Time in History? Which originally came out in 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:15.200 March two thousand. Um, there's a big discussion about Stephen 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.560 Pinker and uh, if this kind of thing floats your boat, 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.840 check out Reality Denial. Stephen Pinker's Apologetics for Western imperial Violence, 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:29.320 which was a Public Intellectuals Project article, makes kind of 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.040 a good companion piece to this episode at any rate. 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:42.480 Enjoy it's a good one. Welcome to Stuff you should 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:51.360 Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hi, and welcome 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.720 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.200 We're being very professional and this is stuff should are. 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.200 This is decided, you know all we're saying, Josh, let's 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.600 get a piece of chance, who says me? And John 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.760 Lennon and you know the follow up I think that 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.080 that line was if it doesn't work out, kill someone. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.080 But then he Yoko said you should take that part out. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:22.800 Thank God for Yoko. Yeah, that's what I always say. Um, well, 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:24.840 I think that was a nice little intro. Chuck just 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.960 made it up close off the cuff clearly on the fly. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.360 Um have you ever heard of the group vision of Humanity? 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.959 I have. I wonder where groups like this get their 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.080 cash because this is kind of um. I mean, they 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.440 make a social statement, but how are they? Are they 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.560 selling ads on their annual report? What's going on here? 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.120 I don't know? They may be an NGO, I guess. 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.480 I mean, I'm sure they are. I think it's valuable research. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.640 I agree because it brings into focus, like, you know, 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.320 what we're going towards. What I should say. What they 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.760 do is they they use in twenty three different indicators 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.760 and uh crunch some numbers from all over the world 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.720 to determine what is the most peaceful countries on Earth? 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.800 And it's fairly predictable. The top and the bottom. What 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.760 were you surprised by? Did you like at two thousand twelves? Yeah, okay, 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:20.720 we'll go ahead and go over the top and bottom 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.320 ten and then we'll talk about surprises, because that sound 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:30.800 it sounds delicious. The number one most peaceful country was Iceland. Yeah, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:39.200 and then you got Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Austria, Oireland, Slovenia, 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.440 Finland and Switzerland are the top ten most peaceful countries. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:47.799 I could have guessed all those. Maybe not Austria. Oh yeah, yeah, dude, 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:53.880 there's like super chill, very peaceful people. Got anything in 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.440 Western Europe basically is very peaceful these days. Yeah, I 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.320 mean Western Europe typically is very peaceful. By it's the 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.600 most peaceful region according to this list in the world. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.120 I'm I'm just a little out of okay, I feel 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.600 like that Iranic surprised by one. Okay, so I picked Austria, 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:16.799 all right. I was surprised by Oh, I'll go with Slovenia. Yeah, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.960 I don't know much about Slovenia. That's why I'm surprised. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.359 So the worst is Somalia, and then Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.440 Republic of Congo. Here's where I was surprised. Russia, I 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.480 was too. Russia is just slightly better than Congo as 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.560 far as peaceful countries go. Yeah, and slightly worse than 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.840 North Korea, and then the Central African Republic and then 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.960 Israel and in Pakistan is the tenth worst. And I 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:42.800 was also surprised by Israel. And then once I thought 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.480 about I was like, man, that really stinks. Yeah, I 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:51.120 was surprised by Russia. Yeah I was too, And um, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.440 this one tends to fluctuate a little bit more depending 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.480 on these little civil wars that crop up in some 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.680 of these countries. Because like a place like Syria had 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.320 the biggest fall, they fell thirty places in a year, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.040 and then Sri Lanka rose thirty places because their civil 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.880 war ended. So oh yeah, man, if you want to 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.000 like change big time in this rating, start or finish 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.960 a civil war, that's thirty points right there one way 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.440 or the other. Um. So yeah, I think the United 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.760 States tends to rank pretty much somewhere in the middle, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.720 usually about the eighties. Yeah. Um, and the UK was 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.000 twenty nine. Just you know, that's another notable that is 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.440 very notable country or region. Uh. And you could probably 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.799 guess one of the things that one of the reasons 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.480 why the UK is higher than the United States is 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.320 because I think one of the indicators has to do 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.480 with access to guns a k. A. Ease of access 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.520 to weapons of minor destruction. Yeah, the UK's access against 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:56.719 is far more restricted. Um number of jailed inmates for 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:02.039 one thousand people. Uh. Military capability, Hey, US has got 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.520 that in aces. Yeah, well so does England though Uh 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.440 potential for terrorists acts. Yeah, I take that to mean 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.000 like maybe being a target for it. Uh, that's what 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:13.880 I took it as yea. And then some of the 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.520 other indicators they use our number of homicides per one 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.640 thousand people, um, how you get along with your neighbors 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:26.599 country wise, um, number of deaths from organized conflict, respect 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.000 for human rights, and number of heavy weapons so not 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.960 just guns and things, but scud missiles and like bunker busters. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.960 That's the Global Peace Index. And again it's Vision of 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.360 Humanity and NGOs UM annual data that they crunched together, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.719 which is pretty sweet, and that was there's just like 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.960 a little cheat sheet that we were working off of, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.719 but there's a whole publication that really goes into depth 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.800 if you're interested. And they pretty much have a lock 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.800 on what the most peaceful country in the world is, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:01.320 But the question still remains, what is the most peaceful 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.680 time in history? A lot of people ask that, Yeah, 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:10.080 and there's been several candidates. Um. Probably the most readily 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.279 identified as the packs Romana, which means the Roman Peace. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.120 This gets a lot of press, at least um thanks 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.640 to a seven I'm sorry. An eighteenth century historian named 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.760 Edward Gibbon, who wrote the History of the Decline and 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:28.159 Fall of the Roman Empire pretty light reading um and 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.880 given was the first to really say, hey, there's this 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.920 thing called the Pax romana, or is the first one 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.280 to popularly right about it and actually try to date 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.760 this period. It was about a hundred and fifty years 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.320 and it started. Um was it a hundred and eighty years? 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.960 I'm sorry, yeah, well they rounded up to two hundred Yeah, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.440 two hundred years things. Man, he puts it at twenty 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:56.160 seven BC, is beginning when Octavian, who was gayest Julius 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:02.359 Caesar Augustus, the great nephew of the stabbed one Julius Caesar, 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.400 and he was like, you know what, I'm in office now, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.200 and I'll know what all we've always done is just conquered, conquered, conquered, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.920 conquer and spread the empire. We got enough junk. Now 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.000 can we work on our what we have and just 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:21.600 like quit conquering and work on our infrastructure and just 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.840 being more peaceful and getting along within our own uh 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.080 land bounds right, making our people happy. We've got a 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.280 bunch of people, let's start focusing on them. And it 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.560 actually had a really big impact. The popular rebellions dropped 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:41.040 off pretty quickly in the Roman Empire. No, they point out, 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.360 but they I get the impression that they were a 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.360 lot more frequent and widespread than they were during the 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.920 pax Row model. Um. There there's these things called the 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.400 Gates of Janice, and they were built by the second 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.400 Emperor of Rome. I can't remember his name. Yeah, I 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.440 looked it up to I can't remember he. Uh. He 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.040 built these things and left them open, and while they 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.840 were open, somebody noticed like Rome was at peace, and 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.880 then another emperor later on closed them and Rome was 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.640 at war, and these gates would stay open or closed 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.640 for hundreds of years at a stretch, mostly open for 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.400 hundreds of years at a stretch, because they were always 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.480 at war. Yeah, and they became the symbolic, um, I guess, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.840 kind of indicator of how Rome was doing right then 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.840 as far as war and peace went. And so during 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.320 the pet Romana, the Gates of Janis were ceremonially closed 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.480 and stayed closed for a couple hundred years, which is 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.400 a big deal. It was opposite of how I thought 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.280 it would be. I thought you would close them during 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.640 times of war, But um I I couldn't get to 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.439 the bottom of it. Was definitely symbolic. But is it 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.400 symbolic of Rome had troops out there that they needed 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.120 to leave the gates open for or if the gates 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.000 for closed. Rome was focusing inward rather than outward. See, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.079 you thought more much more about it. I just thought, 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.160 if you're a war man, you better close the gates. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.680 You guys could come in. Um. There was also something 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.800 called the Aura Passus, the Altar of peace, that was 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.600 built during this time as well. And then the whole 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.320 thing came to an end thanks to a guy named Commodus. Yeah. 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.560 He was more into conquering. Yeah. He was Marcus Aurelius's son, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.520 and Marcus Aurelius was a really great general, we should say. Um, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.400 during this time, during the Pax Romana, like you said, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.640 there were still some popular rebellions. Um. There was one 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.920 in Hispania which is now modern day Spain. In Portugal. Um, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.960 there was there's a border between the Roman Empire and 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:38.520 Germania which is modern day Germania. Um. And then also 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.760 during the Pax Romana, Rome invaded England and subjugated it. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.400 So depending on who you were, the Pax Romana could 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:47.920 have been very violent. You may have come to a 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.200 violent and but if you're if you look at the 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.760 Roman Empire as a whole, this was a very peaceful time. 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.480 And Rome was pretty much running the world at the time. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.640 So this you could say was the most peaceful time 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.480 in world history, I think, compared to how Rome usually was. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.920 It was pretty peaceful. Yeah, but it wasn't all like 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:10.920 you said, daisies and uh honey bees. Did you know, 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:42.959 I had no idea where I was going? Um? Did 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.640 you know you know a vomitorium? Yeah, that's it's it's 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.760 a popular misconception, really not true. No, Um, Romans actually 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:55.240 didn't really use feathers to vomit up their meals. Vomitorium 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.360 was like a place of ingress and egress into um, 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.319 like a form or colosseum or something like that. It's 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.240 basically the place where everybody walked in. They called it 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.280 the vomitorium. So all those stories about eating to excess, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.160 bening and purging are not true as far as I know. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.840 The purging part is a misconception. Interesting. Yeah, they definitely 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:19.000 went to excess, especially followers of Bacchus. Yeah, I mean, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.520 can you believe that, like could you imagine, I'm just 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.080 gonna eat so much like lamb and beef and drink 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.000 mead until I can't move, and then I'll throw it 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.960 all up and I'll do it all over again, and 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.480 then will honor the God that I follow, which and 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.160 why I follow this sex with like eighteen people at 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.600 once ancient Roman, that place was a party. Rodney McDowell, 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.360 huh yeah. And Helen Mirren young was she? And that? Yeah, 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.319 she was in it and naked crazy quite a bit. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.760 I never saw it, Caligula, it's really not very good. 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.480 It's well, it's just long and dull, and you expect 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.720 way more than you get. As far as when I 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.120 was a kid, Colia was like the dirtiest thing ever, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.080 you know. Yeah, And then you watch it now you're like, God, 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.200 what a bore that clash of the Titans without the 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:17.520 good fighting without pants? Yeah, um, you jaded, bright uncle Agula. Yeah, 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.200 I am all right. So that is the pats Romana. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.560 We we put it up for consideration and we're striking 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.400 it down. The sound of it being stricken down up next, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.079 we have a time that you might not think was 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.800 the most peaceful, and that was the time of Genghis Khan. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:38.120 What Genghis Khan who we have talked about murdering what 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.080 like a million people? One point eight million people? We 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.520 put that one to rest. Yes we did, um, but 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.319 he did. We should probably go over it real quick. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.960 The reason he was he was known for killing one 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.080 point eight million people in an hour is because in 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.880 just one particular city, Nishapur, he had his people sack 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.360 it and then he went in and said, cut everyone's 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.120 head off and stack it into a giant pyram. And 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.520 everybody's man, woman, child, baby, dog, You got your head 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.520 cut off and stacked. That was jengas CON's orders. Jingis, 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.680 that's how you say it. Okay, I saw the thing 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.679 that fern bank. They kept saying jengas Con. So that's 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:18.400 how I'm saying it, not Janis, No, okay, Jengis. Well, 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:25.240 I'm gonna go with Gingis Khan, Gingi Kahan ging Juice. Alright. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.079 So um, sure there was a lot of conquering of 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.920 people's when you were bringing together the Mongol hordes. You 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.920 gotta do some killing. But apparently once all the killing 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.640 was accomplished, or not all of it, but enough of it, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.319 he was like, you know what, I think now we 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.560 really need to like take care of folks. Yeah, kind 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.760 of like protect people, kind of like when who started 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:56.400 the Pax Romana, Uh, the Great Nephew, Yeah Octavia's Yeah, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.640 yeah it was. It was very much like, Okay, you're 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.000 under our control now, which means you're now protected by 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.199 our laws, which was good for a lot of people, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.960 especially the Mongol hordes that he uh he basically brought 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.760 under his um his kingdom, I guess King Chip whatever um. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.960 And some of the some of the innovations that Jengis 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.880 Khan came up with where things like freedom of religion, 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.480 what yeah, women's rights. Um. He devised a postal system, 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.720 not the first, but he divides the postal system yeah, 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.560 sort of like the pony express that we talked about. 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.400 They had stations and horses and they would go from 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.160 station to station delivering mail. And if you listen to 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.600 the Postal Service episode, you know that that is something 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.280 that is intended to create culture and spread information, share 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.920 information easily. Um. Kubla Khan two hundred years after Jengis 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.000 Khan uh he established a system of printing presses. Two 0:14:54.080 --> 0:15:00.840 hundred years before Guttenberg sublicon it's uh, it's pronounced um. There. 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.040 So there is a lot of really great innovations as 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.120 far as like promoting individual and human rights um. And 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:13.000 they protected these things using really really strict punishment, so 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.560 much so that there's a very old legend that a 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.760 woman are saying that a woman could walk from one 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.400 end of the Mongol Empire to the other about a 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:25.080 million square miles, holding a sack of gold, and be 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:31.480 just completely left alone. That's awesome, it is because there 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.720 was a lot of you were you were going to 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.560 be punished pretty severely, but a lot of people would 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.960 point out, uh, if the state doles out capital punishment 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:47.800 or physical punishment pretty easy, pretty strictly. And can you 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.840 say that's very peaceful? Yeah? And can you say it's 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:55.520 peaceful even though like millions of people potentially were killed 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.240 in order to establish that that huge area of land, 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.480 you know, I mean, I guess afterwards maybe, but we're 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:08.640 gonna say no on Gingis con So, no to the 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.680 pox Romana, No to Jengis Khan's Mongol Empire founded around 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:18.440 a d win. Then Chuck, I'm gonna put up a 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:24.120 boat along with our buddy Stephen Pinker that says right now, 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.520 my friend, are the most peaceful times in world history? Man, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.720 that is crazy, chuck his think about it. During the 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:35.920 twentieth century we had two World wars, countless civil wars. Um, 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.640 We've had genocides, terrorism, We've had a lot of um, 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:47.600 lynch ings, lots of lots of death like violence, like 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.560 how can you call it homicide? Patricide? Matricide, brother and 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:58.400 sister side. That's a phil phil side, is it? I think? So? Okay? Um, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.720 so yeah, there's a lot of killing going on. But 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:05.880 evolutionary psychologist Stephen Finker, who I think we talked about before, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.359 haven't we. It's not really familiar. Yeah, we have, Uh, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.280 we talked about him in Um Emotion and Art. He 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.360 said that music is auditory cheesecake. That's right. Um, he said. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.120 You know what, things seem violent now for several reasons. 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.239 One reason is because of media coverage and you hear 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.240 about everything and you're inundated with it. So it's gonna 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.639 you know, if you watch the evening news, it's violence 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.680 upon violence upon violence. He says. If you go to 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.560 the hunter gatherer days where you think they're all this 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.920 out hunting and gathering of the men died at the 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:42.080 hands of violence compared to two of men today dying 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.440 at the hands of violence during the twentieth century. Yeah, 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.200 which is a lot more people, a lot more dudes, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.200 of course, so take that into account. But compared to 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.880 like the Middle Ages and in times like that, much 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.920 much more peaceful and less violent today. He makes the 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.920 point that Hobbs Thomas Hobbs, not Calvin Hobbs, which is 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.639 what I always want to say. Um. He that he 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.640 was correct and his whole idea that life was brooty, brutish, 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:16.280 nasty and short before government. Um. And that he points 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.359 to a times of like anarchy or a failed state 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.840 like in Guinea Bissau or Somalia where you have huge 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.680 escalations of violence. And he said the rise of the 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.879 state and the state monopoly on violence, which means like 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.840 the states is the only one that can execute somebody. Um. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.280 Has created this way for people to to get redressed 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.320 for wrongs against them, go to court and the government 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:44.800 does it for you. You don't have to go kill 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.119 that man and then he doesn't come kill your family, 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.440 and blah blah blah and back and forth. UM. So 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.840 that was one thing, one reason, um, why we've gotten 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.840 more peaceful. Uh yeah, he he thinks technology, UM, which 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.159 makes a lot of sense, has a lot to do 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.040 with it because we are connected now like we never 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.160 have been in world history, and connected to other countries. 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.399 And and I think people and this is me talking, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.399 I think people fear what they don't understand. And there 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.040 is a better understanding now than there ever has been, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.840 so there's not as much fear, and people oftentimes react 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.920 from fear with violence. Yeah. And what a guy named 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.560 Peter Singer came up with is called the expanding circle. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.240 It was It initially started with UM, you know, our 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.040 your family, and then clans, tribes, whatever. And as we 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.199 got bigger and bigger, and societies got bigger and bigger. Uh, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.679 this circle of who was okay in our book UM 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:42.119 expanded more and more until it was like one culture 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.520 warring with one culture. But then as we came to 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.520 understand other cultures a little better, that circle got bigger 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.760 and bigger, until now not only does it include UM 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.240 basically all humans, but other species of animals as well. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.080 Like they're okay, maybe we shouldn't kill maybe we shouldn't 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.000 eat octopi, you know, because they're intelligent and we know 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.760 they're intelligent because we understand them a little more. We've 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.520 we've gotten closer to them, we've been hugged by them. 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.440 That's a good point. And he goes on Pink or 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.399 Dust to talk about healthcare. It's sort of along the 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.720 same lines. Not only can are we better at saving people, 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:19.280 but it also has given us more value about saving people, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.600 And just the notion of saving human lives through medicine 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.600 has increased or decreased violence. That one kind of like 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.480 didn't quite click with me. It seems like super for me. 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.560 If you're gonna die at thirty or thirty five, that 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.879 would make life even with no chance of reviving you. 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.639 If like you, like fell in a puddle, yeah, um, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.639 that would make life more valuable in that sense. Whereas like, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.280 if people are walking around like well, a doctor could 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:48.600 probably fix them. If I hit him over the have 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.000 with this lead pipe, it might make people a little 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.040 more prone to use the lead pipe on somebody. I 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.239 don't know that lead pipe eaters think about that stuff. Well, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.159 but think about this, like, let's say we got to 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.959 the point where you had a chance being fully revived 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.920 and restored within a couple of days after being shot. 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.760 That medicine advances to that point, I'd be shooting people 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.560 all over the place exactly. So that's my point, you 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.600 know what I'm saying, Like it seems like that seems 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.560 counterintuitive to me, and I've been trying to wrap my 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.520 mind around it. And I'm also really worried that I've 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:20.040 just given my myself aways like a complete sociopath somehow 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.840 by not understanding that you know now that one didn't 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.240 hit his home as much with me either. I also 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:29.800 want to say too, with the government monopoly on violence, um, yes, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.399 the government used to have a monopoly on violence in 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.080 other ages as well, but that wasn't um, that didn't 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.840 have the companion of protecting individual and human rights like 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.720 we have today to where it's not just like yeah, 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.000 kill him for you know, next to nothing. Like Pinker 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.960 points out that during the Middle Ages when m violence 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:54.159 peaked and by his estimation, um, like you stuff that 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.879 we would a government would find someone for. Today you 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.720 would be killed for. Yeah, that's good, right. Uh. He 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.399 also makes some good points about things like the United Nations, 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:09.000 like the cooperation between countries these days is unparalleled, the 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:14.239 EU um sharing responsibility for international conflicts, like teaming up 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.600 with other countries to go you know, peace keep I guess, 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.520 or conquered, depending on which way you want to look 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.359 at it. Um common currency, I guess it was a 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.240 lot more violent back in the day when you had 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:32.800 everyone trading different things. Common currency would sort of bind 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.760 people together. Yeah, at the very least. Different currencies maybe 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:39.600 promote a sense of otherness too, you know, yeah, in 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.520 group out group stuff. I take an anthropology class once. 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:43.960 I don't know if I've talked about it before. The 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.600 first one I ever took great class, and the the 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.280 um instructor challenged the class to go a full day 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.199 without using any in group or outgroup language like us 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.320 them we they Wow, I bet that stuff. It's impossible. 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:02.600 You can't do it, But just paying attention to it, 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.200 trying just for a day really kind of brings out 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.960 how much you see other people in other groups. Is 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:15.760 different in other and and that's not necessarily a good thing. No, 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:17.840 I would I would like to strive to be more 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:22.520 open minded and inclusive like that. I would say, try that, then, yeah, 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:29.000 I think everyone should, though I agree, you got anything else. No, 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.040 there's a pretty cool thing UM called Stephen Pinker on 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:36.360 the Decline of Violence UM by Ethan Zuckerman. I can't 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:38.080 remember the name of the site it was on, but 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:39.639 if you search that, it will bring it up from 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.399 two thou seven. And it sounds like Stephen Pinker was 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.439 like preparing his notes for Angels of Our Better Nature, 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.280 that book he came out with where he argues we 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:53.000 just talked about, Um, that's pretty cool little primer, a 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.239 little brief rundown of it. I love Pinker And if 0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:00.560 you want to read this article, um, you should. You 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:03.679 can type in peaceful History in the search bart how 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:05.399 stuff works dot Com and it will bring it up. 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:07.840 And I said search bar, which means it's time for 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:45.240 word from our sponsor. It is time for a listener mail. 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.359 All right, We're gonna call this more on Condoms in 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.760 New York because you just can't get enough of that apparently. Uh. 0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.720 In one of our podcasts we talked about the fact 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.600 that you find condoms just playing around the street New 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:01.720