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Speaker 1: Hello, Texans, Broadcasting from the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis.

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Speaker 1: Mark Vandermer and John Harris with you tonight as we

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Speaker 1: have a great one for you, John McClain, who we

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Speaker 1: have on on Thursday nights. Usually we'll join us here

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Speaker 1: from the Combine and just a little under a minute

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Speaker 1: and we'll get Greg Cosell in here as well from

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Speaker 1: NFL Films. Talk about the quarterbacks in play because he

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Speaker 1: breaks down a lot of positions, but I always think

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Speaker 1: it's fun to talk about quarterbacks. And he'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the Texans wide receivers and some other things along the

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Speaker 1: way and making his way over here. John McClain, the

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Speaker 1: general from the Houston Chronicle and John, big news this

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Speaker 1: week with the Texans was that Tim Kelly will be

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Speaker 1: calling plays. The news broke a couple of days ago,

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Speaker 1: and you asked the question last question because Namy Bausick said, okay,

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Speaker 1: two more questions. Somebody fired one off and then I'm thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: what oh ahead, ask Hi about play calling. Hey, he's

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Speaker 1: not gonna change it, so I'll throw it out there anyway,

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Speaker 1: and Bill, can you give any more thought to then

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Speaker 1: Tim Kelly call plays and he goes, he hesitated, y'all

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Speaker 1: were there, and he goes, Timmy's gonna call the place

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Speaker 1: and I'm almost swallowed my cell phone slash tape recorder

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Speaker 1: and I had to keep it on and then to

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Speaker 1: tweet it. And of course that's a big news to

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Speaker 1: Texans fans and Texans media and today FC scioth because

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Speaker 1: they're gonna they don't know what Tim Kelly he's gonna

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Speaker 1: be as a play caller. Nobody does because you don't

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Speaker 1: have anything to go by, but it's gonna make it exciting.

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Speaker 1: And he did the same thing with George. God see,

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Speaker 1: you guys were there. He had him position coach, then

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Speaker 1: offensive coordinator, play caller, and then it didn't work. He

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Speaker 1: took it back over the year later George was gone.

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Speaker 1: And so he's been with Kelly. This is Kelly's ninth

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Speaker 1: yeer with O'Brien. He knows, two years as a GA

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Speaker 1: and then the seventh year, two years of gapin state,

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Speaker 1: seventhier here. So I know Bill thinks very highly of him,

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Speaker 1: and I know it's a long way to go, but

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Speaker 1: I know, based on what they've seen so far with

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Speaker 1: him in his career, people think he has a chance

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Speaker 1: to someday be ahead coach, just like they think Anthony

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Speaker 1: Weaver has a chance to be a head coach. Now.

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Speaker 1: Both those guys are getting their big breaks as play callers. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and the Texans will have two rookie play callers for

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Speaker 1: offense and defense. And by the way, I was standing

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Speaker 1: right behind you, General, because Mark and I were in

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Speaker 1: here and we got to notice that it started a

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Speaker 1: little bit early, so we got over there. I was

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Speaker 1: standing behind you and I thought you were gonna faint

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Speaker 1: on top of me. Like glad you were there, I

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Speaker 1: would have caught you. Okay, So let's go strengths and

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Speaker 1: weaknesses or the good and bad of this move? For

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Speaker 1: Tim Kelly, you said, we don't really have a lot

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Speaker 1: to go on, but we know Tim, We've got to

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Speaker 1: know him over the years. What do you think of

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Speaker 1: the positives and the negatives that we move like this?

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Speaker 1: The positives or he's getting a chance to be a

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Speaker 1: play caller. Everybody had to do it first time. He's

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Speaker 1: got O'Brien there to to rely on, to to lean on,

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Speaker 1: and Kelly's been avily involved in the game plans and

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Speaker 1: and the thing big for O'Brien, of course, when you

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about calling plays, and after they

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Speaker 1: come off the field, you don't have to go back

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Speaker 1: to the bench and talk to them, specifically the quarterback.

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Speaker 1: You can focus more on game management, and so he

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Speaker 1: won't have to go back to the bench like he

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Speaker 1: always does to talk to the quarterback and the other

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Speaker 1: positions if need be, that'll be handled by Tim who's

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Speaker 1: also going to coach quarterbacks. That was something else Carl

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Speaker 1: Smith coach quarterbacks, and now Carl Smith, going into his

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Speaker 1: thirty second NFL season as an offensive coach, is going

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Speaker 1: to help O'Brien with situations and those situations, game day situations.

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Speaker 1: A guy who's been in the league as long as

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Speaker 1: Carl has seen everything. So his focus on game day

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Speaker 1: is to be there on the headset with Bill guiding

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Speaker 1: him and giving him help. And so I think that

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Speaker 1: was a good move as well. And I'm excited for Kelly.

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Speaker 1: This is his big break. If he does a good

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Speaker 1: job of it, it'll enhance his chance to be a

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Speaker 1: head coach. People like you young guys. Now, I think

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Speaker 1: he needs to lose the cap in the news conference

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Speaker 1: with us because he reminds us of Freddy Kitchens. You

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Speaker 1: don't want anybody to be reminding anybody of Freddy Kitchens,

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Speaker 1: So lose that baseball cap, come in and look like

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Speaker 1: a head coach in candidate. And I think he'll do

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Speaker 1: a really good job based on everything I've been told

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Speaker 1: by people who are around him a lot. I remember

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Speaker 1: when he was at GA a couple of guys who

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Speaker 1: worked there made it a joke to keep coming in

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Speaker 1: earlier every morning to see if they could beat him,

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Speaker 1: and they could never beat him, and it made him

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Speaker 1: think he was sleeping on his desk and in his

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Speaker 1: chair because he was always there and that's paid off

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Speaker 1: for him. And having O'Brien there with him will help

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Speaker 1: him immensely, just like Anthony Weaver will have Romeo Cornell

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Speaker 1: there for him. It's funny to see the head coaches

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Speaker 1: where they come from. Not everybody goes that route. But

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Speaker 1: when you look at Matt Lafleur, and when you look

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Speaker 1: at Rob Salo, who's not a head coach, but he's

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Speaker 1: a decoordinator, he will be will be a coach. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean they start in very often in those types

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Speaker 1: of situations. And here's T. G. Yates, by the way,

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Speaker 1: former player and wasn't assistant last year now assistant quarterbacks coach,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be interesting to see how his

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Speaker 1: career develops from here. TJ. Brian gonna work with the

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Speaker 1: defense after spend most time with strengthened conditioning and kim Den,

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Speaker 1: who was already working with the defense, he is gonna

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Speaker 1: give more responsibility. And one of the things about it,

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Speaker 1: I asked O. Brian about, Okay, we were still a

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Speaker 1: defensive line coach, who's going to be working with him?

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Speaker 1: And he said, Bobby King who does linebackers, and Chris Rump,

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Speaker 1: the new new Houside linebackers coach, they would be working

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Speaker 1: with him too, And is it Matt O'Connell, Midel Darnald

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Speaker 1: who's been with him a while, Matt who helped him

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Speaker 1: last year, will be more of it, And so I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to see how it works. We're not gonna know

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Speaker 1: for sherlet first game. You know, we're not gonna see

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Speaker 1: anything in preseason, and so fans should be fired up

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Speaker 1: about that. And then having O'Brien and Cornell there for them,

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Speaker 1: that should ease the transition for them. Johnathan reminds me

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Speaker 1: in some sense, and I don't know if this is

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Speaker 1: what Bill set out to do. But when Bruce arians

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Speaker 1: took over at Arizona head some younger position coaches, and

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Speaker 1: what he did was he went and he took three

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Speaker 1: guys that he was comfortable with that were, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: up in years that he brought along that weren't going

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Speaker 1: to be position coaches, were position coaches with Bruce previously,

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Speaker 1: but he brought them along to help those young coaches

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Speaker 1: in their transition. And that kind of seems like what

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Speaker 1: he's doing with Carl Smith and with Romeo Cornell. Well,

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Speaker 1: Romeo course has been here in one of the all

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Speaker 1: time great coordinators, and Carl has been He was with

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Speaker 1: New Orleans I think eleven years and then Seattle was

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Speaker 1: at eight years, so seventeen and those thirty two were

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Speaker 1: with two teams. And people like him a lot, and

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Speaker 1: they like his personality. And I would think O'Brien, who

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Speaker 1: has a very strong personality in case you guys didn't

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Speaker 1: know that, that Bill has a lot of respect for

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Speaker 1: experience and Carl's got it, just like Brad Seely's got it,

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Speaker 1: Romeo's got it. There's no drop, there's no drawback to experience.

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Speaker 1: It's as we get older, that's the best thing we

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Speaker 1: can offer. John McLean running us at the NFL Scouting

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Speaker 1: Combine in Indianapolis. Now, this is an NFL convention of

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Speaker 1: sorts and for the media too, really, So as you

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Speaker 1: make your travels around town and talk to coaches, scouts,

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Speaker 1: media people, what's your vibe from the outside looking in

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Speaker 1: on the Houston Texans in twenty twenty that you know,

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Speaker 1: last year, everybody's picked the Colts, including me coming off

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Speaker 1: the playoff victory over the Texans. This year, I think

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Speaker 1: some people, because of what the Titans did, they'll pick

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Speaker 1: the Titans. Some people pick the Colts to bounce back,

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Speaker 1: and then the Texans probably win the division again. The

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Speaker 1: key with the Texans as it is every year. Can

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Speaker 1: they win the division and get beyond the second round

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. They should be better next season. I'm really

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Speaker 1: eager to see what happens with like a cornerback in

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Speaker 1: the drafting free agency their biggest need. If they get

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Speaker 1: another pass rusher, if they're happy to go into the

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Speaker 1: season with Will Fuller and Kenny Stills and last year's

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Speaker 1: of the contract, or they bring in another receiver for

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Speaker 1: when Fuller gets hurt and it was amazing I wrote this.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a Sunday before this past might

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Speaker 1: have been last one all Noah's last Sunday about all

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Speaker 1: these stats, not just points, how much better they were

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Speaker 1: when Fuller was in the game. They were so much

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Speaker 1: better in every stat except rushing. Bill relied so much

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Speaker 1: more on the running game without Fuller, and defenses know that.

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Speaker 1: So Fuller's health is vital, of course, but would he

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Speaker 1: consider considering how deep this class is and the success

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Speaker 1: of the receivers last year, like A J. Brown, who

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Speaker 1: were not taking in the first round and we're taking

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Speaker 1: in the second in the third round, what do you

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Speaker 1: use one of those pigs on a receiver knowing that

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Speaker 1: there's a good chance guy's gonna get to play and

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Speaker 1: then in twenty twenty one he might have a chance

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Speaker 1: to start. Or do you focus on corner and pass rusher.

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Speaker 1: I think if you satisfy some of those needs, maybe

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Speaker 1: both of those needs in free agency and not saying

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Speaker 1: that you have to go pay Yannick and Gockway or

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Speaker 1: somebody of that caliber, or Chris Jones from the Kansas

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Speaker 1: City Chiefs, but if you feel like you satisfy those needs,

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Speaker 1: because at the edge rushing position. You'll have Jacob Martin back,

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Speaker 1: You'll have a Duke Jet four coming back, You'll have

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Speaker 1: you'll have guys coming back. Now, do you have players

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Speaker 1: coming back? Are you those guys gonna turn into players

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Speaker 1: for you? Significant impact players for you or their bodies

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Speaker 1: right now? So if you satisfy that, I think, John,

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Speaker 1: you might be able to get one of those receivers

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Speaker 1: in the third round. In the fourth round, you might

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Speaker 1: be able to get one of those receivers. So I

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Speaker 1: absolutely think they'll take a look at this receiver group,

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Speaker 1: in particular because receivers in college now come in all

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Speaker 1: shapes and made and ready made. But they're come in

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Speaker 1: all shapes and sizes six, one, two, ten, all the

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Speaker 1: way up to some of the behemos we ended up

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Speaker 1: seeing yesterday. Chase Claypool from Notre Dame measured six four

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Speaker 1: two thirty. Collin Johnson ut six five and a half. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you're talking about those, so it's gonna be or

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Speaker 1: what is Steven Anderson? He's still smaller than those guys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was definitely smaller than those guys, was no question.

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Speaker 1: But John, would you say corner edge rusher? We kind

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Speaker 1: of I think we know those two. Beyond that, what

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Speaker 1: do you think are the needs of this team going forward?

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Speaker 1: Are they gonna resign Carlos Hide, you know, talk to

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Speaker 1: Carlos side. If they're not, they got to get a

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Speaker 1: running back, and uh, I think High will be back.

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Speaker 1: I think if they don't, he's gonna continue bouncing around

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Speaker 1: the NFL like a pinball. It's a good match. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna have to realize it's a good fit for him.

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Speaker 1: And if as a stalemate on contract and he goes

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Speaker 1: make it up in bonuses based on accomplishments, like if

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Speaker 1: he gets another thousand yards season for the second time

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Speaker 1: in his career, because O'Brien always runs the ball a lot,

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Speaker 1: as you guys know. So it's a good spot. I

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Speaker 1: think that with their two three and two fours, they

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Speaker 1: will definitely have a receiver in there somewhere, and they

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Speaker 1: got to focus on the defense. Another guy to keep

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Speaker 1: in mind on the pass rush. Charles the Many who

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Speaker 1: three sacks, is a rookie. With most guys making their

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Speaker 1: biggest improvement in their second year, and it's like Duke

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Speaker 1: as Ford's second year, it's Martin's second year in the system.

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Speaker 1: Those guys could have an impact on the pass rush.

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Speaker 1: But I still think they will either sign or draft somebody.

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Speaker 1: Here's something I can't figure out. They would like to

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Speaker 1: sign two extensions to Shaun Watson, Laramy Tounsil and Zach Cunningham.

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Speaker 1: But if you and by the time free agency starts

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Speaker 1: on March eighteenth at three o'clock, they should have a

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Speaker 1: good idea of what it would tell. So do you

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Speaker 1: hold money back for them and not be active in

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Speaker 1: free agency? If there's Saint Chris Jones was available, you

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Speaker 1: know that guy could name is Price being an inside

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Speaker 1: pass rusher. Say a guy like that, do you go

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Speaker 1: after him and then risk? Okay, well we'll let these

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Speaker 1: tonsil go into last year of his contract. We got

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Speaker 1: another year with the Sean because they don't have to

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Speaker 1: sign those guys. You know, to me, the must sign

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Speaker 1: is DJ Reader and they can always franchise him. And

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Speaker 1: if they get this new CBA done, you can't do

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Speaker 1: two tags if it goes into effect now. So I'm real,

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Speaker 1: real interested to see what they do in free agency

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Speaker 1: based on what they want to do with extensions which

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Speaker 1: will eat up money and the new primary contract. Negotiasre

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Speaker 1: Kevin is a Craig Coovic, he pannce Kevin's last name,

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Speaker 1: and who's the guy Bill said? They moved over from

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Speaker 1: ops to work with him and Andrew Brown. You talk now,

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Speaker 1: Kevin has been Chris Olsen's assistant for years. He's done contracts,

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Speaker 1: but now he's the guy in what should be the

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Speaker 1: most tumultuous, difficult season in Texans history for signing players

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Speaker 1: in offseason not unrestricted, because you know, does Watson wait

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Speaker 1: for Mahomes. Tounsil's gonna be the highest pay layman in

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Speaker 1: history anyway you look at it. And then Cunningham played

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Speaker 1: his best season and they would like to get those three.

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Speaker 1: If they get those three guys extended, that will be unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Mahomes gets done though this offseason, well they've said they will,

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Speaker 1: but you know he's gonna want not just I think

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Speaker 1: that his guy Lee Steinberg's waiting to see about the

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Speaker 1: new CBA and how much the cap goes up, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he's definitely gonna be the first forty meeting quarterback,

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Speaker 1: maybe more, and then Watson's gonna be second most. All right,

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Speaker 1: stick around general more is coming up with John McClain

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Speaker 1: from the Houston Chronicle here from the combine. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: more about what's going on around the league, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get Greg coast out in here next segment as

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Speaker 1: well on Texans Radio. Moving right along here at the

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Speaker 1: NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Mark vandermaron John Harris with

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Speaker 1: you on Texans All Access. Greg co Sell is coming

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Speaker 1: up in just a few minutes here, but let's finish up.

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Speaker 1: John McClain from the Houston Chronicles stuck around through the break, John,

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Speaker 1: the players that are not up for contract, you know,

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Speaker 1: Pat Sean, even Laramy, do you think there is a

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Speaker 1: reluctance from those players? Now? Obviously they're understricted players. I

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Speaker 1: gotta sign a contract. But do you think those players

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Speaker 1: that don't absolutely have to have an extension will try

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Speaker 1: and wait the CBA out or how do you think

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Speaker 1: players of that ILK will like Jalen Ramsey with the

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Speaker 1: with the Rams, how will they sort of play it?

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Speaker 1: Or do you do you think that the new CBA

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Speaker 1: doesn't play role in it? How do you think they're

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Speaker 1: gonna utilize the new CBA to their advantage or are

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Speaker 1: they gonna wait at all or just try and get

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Speaker 1: something done? Now that's up to their agents. Jimmy, for instance,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Saxton with Larry Tounsil expecting to be the highest

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Speaker 1: paid lineman in history, and do you wait or do

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Speaker 1: you take it now? To me? If you can be

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Speaker 1: the highest paid, now you do it. Yeah. And because

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Speaker 1: Tunsil's twenty five, you won't be twenty six to August,

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Speaker 1: and so you might have another contract after this. And

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Speaker 1: some of them are glad with the network TV new

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Speaker 1: one coming in next year that that will cause the

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Speaker 1: percentage for the players to go up even more. But

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Speaker 1: it's not like Zach Cunningham. Maybe he waits, but he

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Speaker 1: plays a physical, consistent position. He gets beat up every year.

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Speaker 1: If I'm Zach and I can get a deal, it's good.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm all over it. Excellent point, John A FC South.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned it briefly, but the Texans are the only

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Speaker 1: team without quarterback issues in the division. They're the only

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Speaker 1: team you can definitely say opening day starter is this guy,

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Speaker 1: because we really don't know about Tannehill in Tennessee and

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Speaker 1: even what's gonna go on in Jacksonville. It's probably one

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Speaker 1: of the two they have currently. Great minds think alike,

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Speaker 1: because I'm writing this for I think Saturday. You think

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Speaker 1: all those years of Texans head contract a quarterback issues,

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Speaker 1: and now they don't. Philip Rivers seems like such a

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Speaker 1: natural fit for the Colts. He had the Frank Reich

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Speaker 1: and his offensive coordinator with him in San Diego. And

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Speaker 1: he's got a great line. You know, he's a statue

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Speaker 1: needs to be protected. He's got a good enough running game,

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Speaker 1: good enough tight end. And what if they were to

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Speaker 1: use the top pick on, say, Henry Ruggs, the third

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Speaker 1: the fastest receivers, go with Paris Campbell who ran a

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Speaker 1: four three one in t Y Hilton and so and

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Speaker 1: then Tennessee. Ryan Tannehill led the league in completion percentage,

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Speaker 1: quarterback rating, and average yards per attempt in the last

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Speaker 1: year of his contract. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the talk by when Mike Raymond, John Robinson or asked

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Speaker 1: about it, they don't come right out and say we

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Speaker 1: love the guy, we want him back, because let's contract talk.

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Speaker 1: And now it's I don't know who's leaked it, but oh,

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Speaker 1: the Titans are one of the destinations for Brady. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: despination for Brady that people have includes a former Patriot,

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Speaker 1: in this case, Mike Rabel and even the Giants. That

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Speaker 1: was thrown out there because they're new coach Joe Judge

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Speaker 1: came from the Patriots. There's no way they're getting him,

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Speaker 1: bringing him behind a bad offensive line with a rebuilding team.

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Speaker 1: When they used the high number one pick on Daniel Jones,

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Speaker 1: who played well, but somebody's thrown that out there. I'd

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Speaker 1: be embarrassed to throw that out there, just like whoever

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Speaker 1: threw it out there with him and the Cowboys. Now

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Speaker 1: the Raiders, they got the great line, second best to Indian,

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Speaker 1: third best to Indian Dallas. They got a great tight

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Speaker 1: end in Darren Waller. They have great running back, young

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Speaker 1: running back Josh Jacobs. They got a pick, they could

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Speaker 1: get Jerry Judy or maybe even Ceedee Lamb, although I

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Speaker 1: think he's going to Arizona so they could get. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they want Rugs so they could. That is a very

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Speaker 1: attractive situation. And think about how much Brady's income would

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Speaker 1: go up not paying the taxes in Massachusetts when you're

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and so also closer to his mom

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Speaker 1: and dad in San Mateo, California, and they don't need

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Speaker 1: him to sell tickets. But based on Mark Davis throwing

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Speaker 1: so much money. At Gruden twenty million a year, I

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Speaker 1: could see him offering Brady two years at seventy million.

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Speaker 1: I want to get guaranteed must CTV. I want to

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Speaker 1: give credit where it's due. I actually was on a

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Speaker 1: trademall this morning, so I didn't hear it, but I

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Speaker 1: was actually I was watching it, and so I didn't

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Speaker 1: hear everything they said, but I saw the close captioning

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Speaker 1: and Golik and Wingo we're talking about this. And the

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Speaker 1: question got brought up, how many teams in the NFL

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Speaker 1: realistically would take Brady over the quarterback situation? And there

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Speaker 1: were so many they were like, oh, let's go the

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Speaker 1: other way. How many would not take Brady over the

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Speaker 1: current quarterback situation? And I was like, well, Hugh with DeShawn,

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Speaker 1: Kansas City with Pat Baltimore, with Lamar Seattle, with Russell,

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Speaker 1: the Packers, Rogers. I disagree with him totally. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a very small market for Brady because he's forty

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Speaker 1: three years old. He's been in a certain system. He

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Speaker 1: can't go learn a new system. So whoever signs him

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Speaker 1: is gonna have to adapt their system to him. It'd

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Speaker 1: be asdine not to do that, and we all know

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Speaker 1: he's not throwing the ball down to fill in a

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Speaker 1: vertical offense like Bruce Arians in Tampa. He's got to

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Speaker 1: be protected. That would rule out Arians because he sends

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Speaker 1: out multiple receivers and does five and seven step drops.

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Speaker 1: So there's to me, there's a small market for Brady,

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Speaker 1: especially with a team that has a chance at Borough.

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Speaker 1: Tagavaloa and and Justin Herbert pass them up for Brady.

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Speaker 1: Those teams are rebuilding, they need a young guy. A

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Speaker 1: thank you guys very much, all right, general, Always a

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Speaker 1: pleasure to catch up with John McLean and always a

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Speaker 1: pleasure to catch up with our next guest settling in

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Speaker 1: from NFL Films, our buddy Greg co Cell. Greg, how's

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Speaker 1: it going? You know, market's going okay, it's going okay.

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Speaker 1: It's my third day here. Start to workouts tonight, you know,

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Speaker 1: so it's going okay. I mean, so start the workouts, yes,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna be watching those I will be. What

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Speaker 1: do you think of the prime time schedule? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It kind of messes me up a little. Guys like you,

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Speaker 1: you don't like this at all. I mean, who's gonna

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Speaker 1: bring me my warm milk and cookies at nine o'clock tonight,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they're gonna be working out. Yeah, how

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Speaker 1: much do you make of the changes that they're making

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Speaker 1: with the combined drills? And some players go and maybe

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Speaker 1: it's through agents, advice, whatever the case might be, saying

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I might sit this one out. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of all that? Greg? Yeah, I haven't

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Speaker 1: specifically looked John at this at the drills. I'll see

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Speaker 1: them when I see them, So I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the changes are. I mean, obviously, I think they want

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Speaker 1: to really fit them into a certain time frame because

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Speaker 1: of the prime time. They don't want to go to

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Speaker 1: midnight or twelve thirty morning. They want to be done

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Speaker 1: by eleven. So I don't know. The big issue you're

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Speaker 1: going to face now that it's prime time is guys

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Speaker 1: working out. It's always been an issue. It didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to be as big an issue, but now that it's

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Speaker 1: prime time and they're looking for viewers. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: know too it can't work out, for instance, because of injury.

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Speaker 1: But Borrow's not going to do anything, you know, so

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Speaker 1: you start getting into, hey, we're putting it in prime time,

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Speaker 1: but the names that everybody knows may not work out well.

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Speaker 1: My take on whether it moves or not depends a

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Speaker 1: lot on that, because you would move it to draw

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Speaker 1: a crowd, But is there a crowd to draw if

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Speaker 1: you're not going to have a lot of these guys participating.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is still a working environment here. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot to literally do correct the league, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the draft, which is just a podium that you

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Speaker 1: can dress up right. And that's going to be fascinating

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Speaker 1: because normally when things like this happen, we don't go backwards.

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Speaker 1: In other words, it's prime time. I can't imagine next year.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to be primetime. No matter what happens

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Speaker 1: this year, they'll try to make tweaks and adjustments if

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Speaker 1: they feel things didn't work the way they wanted them too.

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Speaker 1: But I doubt we're going to go back to daytime.

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Speaker 1: I think this will be a primetime of moving forward.

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Speaker 1: I always thought the forties would be the best prime

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Speaker 1: time event. That is definitely the one to watch with

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Speaker 1: these quarterbacks, and thankfully we are one team in Houston

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Speaker 1: that and we need a backup quarterback, and well that's

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Speaker 1: that's a different It's a different question, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you about the Shawan a little bit. But with

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Speaker 1: these guys, Greg, what's the what's the separator? TWA Burrow?

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Speaker 1: I think those two are the kind of the two

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Speaker 1: made it that you know put at the top. How

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Speaker 1: would you separate those two? Which one do you like?

426
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 1: Number one? Which one number two? And how would you

427
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: put those two together? Because I know you've watched plenty

428
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: of those Yeah, and I would say that for me,

429
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: there's a pretty significant differentiation between the two. I would

430
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: clearly put Borrow at number one. I think Burrow has

431
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: everything you look for other than big time arm strength.

432
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: And different people will have different points of view about

433
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: the relative importance of m importance of arm strength, but

434
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: I think Burrow has everything else. He's really poised, he's composed,

435
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 1: he can play from the pocket with timing and efficiency.

436
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: He's got very good movement ability where he maintains his

437
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: downfield focus and can deliver the football. He's precisely accurate.

438
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: He's really good with his ball placement on a number

439
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: of different kinds of throws. So to me, Burrow clearly

440
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: is the number one. Two is an interesting guy. To me,

441
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: I don't think two is a great athlete. I think

442
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: that to me, and again this is all from tape study.

443
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 1: I think that the idea that two was going to

444
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: be kind of a Russell Wilson kind of player, I

445
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: don't see that at all to me. For two to

446
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: be a really good pro and reach his ceiling, he

447
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: would have to stylistically play like Drew Brees. I think

448
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: he'd have to be an efficient, rhythmic pocket player, throwing

449
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: the ball with great ball placement consistently. I think that's

450
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: ultimately what he would have to be. I'm not saying

451
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: he can't do it, but I would. I think that's

452
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of a question mark. A couple of

453
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: thumbnails on best of the rest. After that, Well, I

454
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: really like Jordan Love. I mean, you know you could.

455
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: Johnny loves him, Yeah, you could. I'm a huge fan.

456
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: I mean probably make an argument that I like him

457
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: more than two if someone really pushed me on it.

458
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: Big physical kid, kind of an over the top thrower.

459
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: He's got some work to do. I actually met his

460
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: quarterback coach yesterday. We talked for quite a bit. There's

461
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: some lower body mechanics issues. Normally you can work through

462
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: lower body mechanics issues as opposed, you're not changing the

463
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: way guys throw a football. But I really liked Jordan Love.

464
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: I think he's got good moving ability the way. I

465
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: think he's got the ability to be what I would

466
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: call a rhythmic ball distributor. I think he can be

467
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: one of those guys that consistently runs your pass game

468
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: but also has the arm to get the ball down

469
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: the field. So I Love to me is the most

470
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: fascinating quarterback prospect in this draft. All right, let's get

471
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: to the current guys, the guys playing in the league

472
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: right now. And I want to get to the MVP,

473
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, because doing what you do watching him, what

474
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: do you think of him overall? Well, I think you

475
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: have to put in the context of what their offense is.

476
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: They're the only offense in the league in which the

477
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: offense is built found nationally on the quarterback as a runner,

478
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: not as a ball distributors. The only offense in the

479
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: league like that. And I'll be fascinating what teams do

480
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: this offseason defense is now that they have a whole

481
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: season of studying that they know what Lamar Jackson is,

482
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 1: and they know what Lamar Jackson isn't they did an

483
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: unbelievable job playing to what he is and minimizing what

484
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: he is. And he's not a drop back passer. So

485
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: they were as creative as you could possibly be with

486
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: the run game and their blocking schemes with the quarterback

487
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: as a runner. No one had really done that kind

488
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: of thing in the NFL. But it all started from

489
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: the fact that their offense was built on him as

490
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,239
Speaker 1: a runner, not as a ball distributor. And that is

491
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: the key point. Now people say, oh, no, you're wrong,

492
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: You're through thirty six touch those are numbers. It's the

493
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: foundation of the offense. That's the way it was built

494
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: and structured. How long do you think they can keep

495
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: that going? That's a great point, And you know, I

496
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a definitive answer to that. I

497
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: think what's weird about it, Greg is when you watch him,

498
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: when you watch Lamar, he doesn't take a lot of hits, right.

499
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: He runs the ball a lot, right, but he doesn't

500
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 1: really take a lot of hits. But because you do

501
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: run the ball, all it takes is one hit, though,

502
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: and so you're kind of waiting for that. But as

503
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: a whole you think, I think of Cam Newton and

504
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: the cumulative effect of cam a two hundred and fifty

505
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: pounds bang bang bangs, all the hits he's taken. I

506
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: think keV taken a toll on him, but Lamar doesn't

507
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: take a lot of hits, and I do think that's

508
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: something to consider. But how long do you keep that going?

509
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: Because as soon as Lamar does get an injury, you know,

510
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: we saw it with Deshaun with the torn acl If

511
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: Lamar does get an injury, how much does it impact

512
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: how much he wants to run, how much he can run? Right? Well,

513
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: that's a great point. But I think what they're going

514
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: to do is they're going to start to build on

515
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: what they do offensively. Don't forget he started what half

516
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: a season as a rookie this year who was the

517
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: full time starter. Obviously they had great success. I think

518
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: they'll continue to build the pass game elements of what

519
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: they do with the hope that he continues to improve

520
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: as a passer. They know what he is as a passer.

521
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: He's not a great pastor. He's not a great natural

522
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: thrower of the football. He's got a good arm, that's

523
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: not the point, but he's not just a great thrower.

524
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: So they'll continue to build though, and hope they can

525
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: add dimensions and elements to their offense. But this year

526
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: I think the league struggled a bit to defend them

527
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: because it was a different offense than anybody else ran. Yeah,

528
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: no doubt what you see with our guy down to

529
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: Houston Shaw Watson in year number three. You know, de

530
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: Shaun's a fascinating guy to me because there are times

531
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: I watched him playing I think, man, this guy is

532
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: so good, and then there's other times I feel he

533
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: just needs detail works. He's a very talented kid. He

534
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: obviously can make special plays. I mean you just look

535
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: at that play he made against the Bills, you know,

536
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: essentially to win the game, you know, when he threw

537
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: it to Taiwan Jones. You know in those plays. The

538
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: thing about plays like that is I think they make

539
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: people believe that a guy is just a great, great player.

540
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he's not a great player, but

541
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: I think that ultimately there just needs to be a

542
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: little more consistency to his structured game, because that's the

543
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: way the position to drive. Had ten conversations already in

544
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: three days here about how the quarterback position is taught,

545
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: and nobody teaches the position, rolling the ball out and

546
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: saying let's go and make a play. Today, that's not

547
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: the way the position is taught. Sometimes it becomes that,

548
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: and you know what, every once in a while it does.

549
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: And if you can do that, that's awesome, right. But

550
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: I think back, you know, to the days let's say

551
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: a Troy Aigman, not then obviously to Sean a Traygman

552
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: or not the same player. But you know, I remember

553
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: Troy Agman being great because when it was third and

554
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: seventy hit Chan Overachick for eight yards. Those plays don't

555
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: end up on Sports Center, but you know what, those

556
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: are really important plays. Greg Gosell with us from NFL Films. Greg,

557
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: what about Mahomes? What are you seeing after the second year?

558
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: I know he won the Super Bowl, he was dinged up.

559
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't as great a year prolific wise, as last

560
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: year was as the twenty eighteen season, But what about

561
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: moving forward? He's it's one of those guys. I think

562
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: that's a little freak is because not many guys throw

563
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: it like he does, you know, And that's that's the

564
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: bottom line, because you know, he's kind of a loosey,

565
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: goosey player and a little bit of an undisciplined player,

566
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: and he may be one of those guys that can

567
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: just play that way. Uh. You know, obviously he plays

568
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: with instructure as well, because Andy Reid has some really

569
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: nice offensive designs and has for years and years, and

570
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 1: there's if he does a really nice job with that.

571
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: But there's also just kind of a looseness and I'll

572
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: even use the word recklessness to mahomes game that he

573
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: gets away with because he's I think he sees things

574
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: really really well, and his arm is just ridiculous, and

575
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: you know, people constantly talk about throwing from different platforms

576
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: and all that. You know, sometimes I almost feel like

577
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: he plays with people and he just throws it from

578
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: different platforms because he can. But you know, he's just

579
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: gets bored. Yeah, he's just one of those guys. He's

580
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: a special thrower. Obviously, moves well, and he just may

581
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: be different in the sense that he can play you know,

582
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: Lucy Goosey kind of way. Not everybody can do that.

583
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: I mean there are quarterbacks they can take fourteen step drops,

584
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: eleven yard drops. Ye throw at sixty five yards in

585
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: the air. You know, there's teach that. Yeah, he's one

586
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: of those guys, you know, all right, so evaluate Tom Brady?

587
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: How do you evaluate Tom Brady in twenty twenty, because

588
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: somebody's got to do it. Actually, a lot of people

589
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: have to do it. The Patriots, anybody who might want him,

590
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: they have to evaluate him. Now. So what are we

591
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: looking at now with Tom Brady? Well, I think there

592
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: were two things that struck me watching the tape. And

593
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: again we're talking about arguably the greatest quarterback ever and

594
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: we're not saying that all of a sudden he's a

595
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: bottom third quarterback. But again, if you're going to sign

596
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, what you should be doing, what team should

597
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: be doing, is nitpicking. That's when you just like quarterbacks

598
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: in the drift. You should be doing that. Yes, you know,

599
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: you don't look at twelve plays and go, man, he's great.

600
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: You know, you got a nitpick. So I would say

601
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: a couple of things stuck out to me with Brady.

602
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: Number one, I thought one of the things he was

603
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: phenomenal throughout his career is what I call pocket movement.

604
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: Not running out of the pocket, because he wasn't that guy,

605
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: but the ability to move within the pocket and navigate

606
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: the pocket and maintain his repetitive mechanics and still throw

607
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: the ball well right, I don't think he did that

608
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 1: quite as well last year. And the second thing I

609
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: thought the tape showed was I don't think his ball

610
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: placement was quite as consistently precise. He wasn't inaccurate, you know,

611
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't scattershot, he wasn't tossing it all over the yard,

612
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: but I just didn't think it was quite as consistently precise.

613
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: So to me, the tape showed those two things just

614
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: dropping off a little bit. All right, Greg, please stick around.

615
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: Next up, let's talk more about the AFC South quarterback situation,

616
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: Texans wide receivers, whatever else comes up in the conversation.

617
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: Greg co Sell stays with us on Texans Radio at

618
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. Mark Vandermer and John

619
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: Harris with you on Radio Row and Greg co Sell

620
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: was nice enough to hang with us through the break. Greg.

621
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: In the AFC South, obviously with the Sean were set

622
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: three other teams not as much as much. Let's talk

623
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: about one guy and Ryan Tannehill, who sort of maybe

624
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: flip things with the way that he played in Tennessee.

625
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: What did you see over the last ten weeks from

626
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Ryan Tannehill to make you believe or not believe that

627
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: he's the guy in Tennessee. Well, you know, it's interesting, John,

628
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: you asked me that because I thought Tannehill actually did

629
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: pretty well in Miami. It's not as if, you know,

630
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: he went to Miami and was terrible. You know, obviously

631
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, it didn't work long term, but he

632
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: had a couple of good years down there. He was

633
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: not a bad player. Tennessee's a little different. And this

634
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: is what you have to evaluate with Tannehill. Tennessee was

635
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: clearly run based. Their offense was clearly built on Derrick Henry,

636
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: and they used the play action pass game really really effectively,

637
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: and that helps to find reads and throws for the

638
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: quarterback really nicely. So you have to decide what is Tannehill?

639
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: Is that the kind of offense he needs to play

640
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: in or can he be more than that? And you

641
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: know that's a tough question to answer. He's talented, he

642
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: throws the ball really well, he's got very good movement.

643
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: He's an athletic kid. He played wide receiver in college.

644
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: So what is ten Hill? If you're signing Tannehill, what

645
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: Is your offense going to look like that? To me?

646
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: Is the first question you have to answer, because if

647
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: you believe that he can only function at a high

648
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: level in an offense like the Titans, and there's not

649
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: many offenses like that in the league. I know we're

650
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: so quarterback heavy here, greg O Sell with us, but

651
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: Rivers rumors about maybe Indianapolis, another AFC South team. So

652
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: what are you looking at with Rivers at this stage

653
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: of his career. I think Rivers is at the stage

654
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: where he needs a multidimensional offense where the run game

655
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: really is a starting point, and he needs a good

656
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: defense because I think Rivers is as smart a quarterback

657
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: as that's ever played the game before the snap of

658
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: the ball. He's like Peyton Manning in that regard. Before

659
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: the snap of the ball, he's phenomenal. I think his

660
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: throwing ability has waned a little bit. He's not the

661
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: same guy he was, So I think he needs to

662
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: be in an offense where, and this is a very

663
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: macro worldview point, you're not going to ask him by

664
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: choice to drop back thirty or five or forty times

665
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: a game. I don't think he's at that point his career. Obviously,

666
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: there are some games that play out that way and

667
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: you have to do it, But I don't think that's

668
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: the approach you want to take foundationally. So I think

669
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: he needs, you know, a fairly complete team in order

670
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: to be an effective quarterback. At this point, Greg, we've

671
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: talked about quarterbacks a lot, So let's talk about a

672
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: position that I know you've studied a bunch that the

673
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: Texans may or may not look at in this draft

674
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: because they've got a few of the best receivers in

675
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: the league. But you don't know every week that you're

676
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: going to have those receivers. And this rookie class about

677
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: to be a rookie class has got a boatload of receivers.

678
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: We know about the Judy's, we know about the CD Lambs,

679
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: we know about the guys at the top. Is there

680
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: kind of a second or third tier that might be

681
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: there might be a couple of guys in that group

682
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: that might make sense for the Texans because we know

683
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: this receiver group, it kind of runs the gamut. You

684
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: got the James Prochets from SMU at five nine, one

685
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: seventy five, got to play in the slot all the

686
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: way to the Chase Claypools who can be six three,

687
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: six four almost two four not a big receiver industry. Yeah,

688
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: So do you find some in that group that might

689
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: be around that second, third, fourth round area that might

690
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: be a fit for Houston. Well, it's funny you say that,

691
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: because that's why lists for receivers make no sense, because

692
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: you can't compare you know, Michael Pittman at six four

693
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: two twenty three with kJ Hammler at five eight or

694
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: seventy eight pounds. It's not a comparison. So you have

695
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: to decide, if you're the Texans, what are you looking

696
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: for at receiver? You know, if you decide you want

697
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: a receiver. You know, let's say you decide, hey, Will

698
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: Fuller's hurt too much. We love him, but he's hurt

699
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: too much. Okay, is Will Fuller an outside receiver? So

700
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: are you looking for an outside receiver to play opposite Hopkins? Now,

701
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: obviously every team nowadays is very multiple with their formations,

702
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: and guys do line up all over. But at the

703
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, are you looking for

704
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: an outside guy? While that changes then what you're looking for?

705
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: Then you're not looking for kJ Hammler. You know, do

706
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: you want a big guy or do you want a

707
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: faster guy? You know, do you love te Higgins, who

708
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: I really like, by the way, or do you love

709
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: Jalen Reeger another guy I really really like who's under

710
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: six feet. Came up pretty rocked up at two h six.

711
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: But he's you know, he's not a He's not a

712
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: big receiver in a strict sense. He's under six feet.

713
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: So you have to decide what fits your approach. You know,

714
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: what are you looking for? You know, do you feel

715
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 1: like you need a true slot? I mean, I feel

716
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: like they've struggled a bit with a guy that they

717
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: really feel I can play in the slot. You know,

718
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 1: justin Jefferson, the kid from LSU, he had one hundred

719
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: and eleven catches this year. A hundred of them came

720
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: in the slot. You know, is he a guy you

721
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: look at now, he's he's a certain kind of slot

722
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: because he's taller, he's leaner. He's not a superior athlete.

723
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: But you don't have to be a superior athlete to

724
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: play in the slot. So it comes down to how

725
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: do you see a receiver type within your offense? What

726
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: do you think of Fuller when you watch him on tape?

727
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: When he's healthy. Well he can I mean, this is

728
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: not a brilliant statement, but he can run. I mean,

729
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: and obviously he gives you that vertical dimension that you

730
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: really want to have. Because even though DeAndre can get

731
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: on top of corners at times, just because he knows

732
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: how to run routes and he knows how to use

733
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: his vertical stem and he's physical in his route stem,

734
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: he's not a true vertical receiver in a strict sense.

735
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: So Fuller gives you that dimension and every team would

736
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: love to have that dimension. The question with him as

737
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: he gets up to a second contract, right, he's still

738
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: on his first contract, is right? Is you know, is

739
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: you're going to resign him for a guy that there's

740
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: an availability issue? You know, I mean he's when he's

741
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: on the field, he makes some big plays, but there's

742
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: an availability issue. So you love what you do? Now

743
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: I hate it? How has it changed? How do you

744
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: see this evolution, this changing league, the way the game

745
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: is played. Do you like the way it's going? Other

746
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: things that you would change? How do you feel about it? Well,

747
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: I think tactics becomes cyclical. You know. One of the

748
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: things that that I've talked to a lot of people

749
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: about and I get asked about a lot, and of

750
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: course there's no, it's not a mathematical equation. There's no,

751
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: there's never two and two is four answer these kinds

752
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: of questions. So I've been asked a lot about quarterbacks,

753
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: and you know, are we now at the point where

754
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote pocket quarterbacks are going to be

755
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: not phased out? But are people not going to focus

756
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: on that the way they did? You know, fifteen, eighteen

757
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: to twenty years ago, you know, Carson Palmer being the

758
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: number one pick in a draft coming out of USC

759
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three. I'm fascinating to see where

760
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: Jacob each Eastern from Washington gets drafted because maybe twenty

761
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: years ago he's the number one pick in a draft.

762
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: You know, So what's the balance between being able to

763
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: play efficiently from the pocket, because at some point you

764
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: have to do that, versus having the ability to make

765
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: plays outside the structure, those as we call second reaction

766
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: plays which have become more and more part of the

767
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: NFL game. As I said, there's no answer to that.

768
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: So what's the balance? Every team, every coach will probably

769
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: look at that differently, because, as I said, when coaches

770
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: put together their pass offense. They don't just roll the

771
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: ball out. You know, it's all done structure. Hey, three

772
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: step drop, here are the route concepts. Here's how we protect.

773
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: Five step drop. Here are the route concepts. Here's how

774
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: we protect seven step shot play play action pass game.

775
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: Here are the concepts. Here's how we protect. That's how

776
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: it's taught. It's not taught with Hey, let's run around

777
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: and make some plays today. But yet we know that

778
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: that is a part of the game, and we see

779
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: really big, important plays being made that way. So you know,

780
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: that's one question I'm anxious to see. The other question

781
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: I think that sort of flowed from this season is

782
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: I think there was a little bit of a return

783
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: to the run game. And now we get into that

784
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: same discussion that we've been having for years, and there's

785
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: no answer again, is the value of backs. People are

786
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: gonna look at the Niners and say, see, backs aren't important.

787
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: They got three guys anybody can run the ball. Or

788
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna look at Tennessee, look at us. We got

789
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Carlos Hide in a deal where we were trading somebody

790
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't gonna make our roster and Carlos was gonna

791
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: make drowsy runs for over one thousand yards, and I

792
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: thought he actually had a very very good season by

793
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: the way. Absolutely, you know so, and no one's gonna

794
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: say Carlos hide and I like the back, but no

795
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: one's gonna say, oh man, he's a top two back

796
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: the league. You know he's a good player though, but

797
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: you know I when we say that. So again, that's

798
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: the next discussion, you know, you get into is because

799
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: there's a lot of good backs in this draft. There

800
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: may not be you know, the guy, so to speak,

801
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of really good backs. So I'm

802
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: really curious to see how the league sees them and

803
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: where they get drafted. All right, so we can follow

804
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: you on Twitter at at great co Cell amazingly enough,

805
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean it's amazing Id such a creative guy, you know,

806
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: and other things you're doing this time of year that

807
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: we have to watch out well, basically because I'm preparing

808
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: big time for the two NFL matchup draft shows that

809
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: we do, and they're actually harder to do than the

810
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: regular NFL shows because we don't just say, oh, here

811
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: are the top five guys at wide receiver. Let's look

812
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: at them. Here are the top five guys. We try

813
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: to think in terms of concepts, like one of the

814
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: things we're going to deal with. And I think this

815
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: is fascinating too, talking about trends is sort of the

816
00:40:54,920 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: multidimensional defender. You know, Zack Bawn was Scotson Well, I

817
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: haven't looked at him yet, but guys who and they're

818
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: all shapes and sizes. You know Tyranne Matthew playing three

819
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: or four different positions in the context of a sub

820
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: defense with the Chiefs and being really good at it.

821
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: You know, there were guys in this draft who kind

822
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: of are those kinds of guys and they're all shapes

823
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: and sizes, whether you're talking about Isaiah Simmons or Xavier

824
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: McKinney from Alabama, guys who can play all different spots

825
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: when you get to your sub defenses, I think, you know,

826
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: the closest guy maybe on the on the Texans to

827
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: that could be a Justin Reid, you know who's you know,

828
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: has corner skills but as a safety, but it's also

829
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: big enough that if you want to put him in

830
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: the box at times in a sub he can do that.

831
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: You know the value of that player is that is

832
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: that increasing. You know. So these are the kinds of

833
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: things we think about on the Matchup Show, because, as

834
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: I said, we don't just, you know, say oh, here

835
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: are the top five wide receivers. It's not a hot

836
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: take show. No, we don't do that matchup show. People

837
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: out there listening haven't seen it. You're missing out. You're

838
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: absolutely missing out. You and Matt Matt Bowen, who's been

839
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: on our show before, doing fantastic, fantastic job with that

840
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: show and make it so easy to learn and watch

841
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: football with an educated eye. After all. Oh, that's what

842
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: they're doing. Oh thanks, great, thanks, I mean, that's really

843
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: appreciate that that's what we try. It's really good because

844
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: I've always had an overriding belief since I created the

845
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: concept and back in the mid eighties that football is

846
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: not complicated. It's just detailed. And if I'm doing my

847
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: job correctly, I'm taking detail and I'm explaining it in

848
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: a clear, concise ways. That's kind of the approach I've

849
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Speaker 1: always taken. Greg, thanks so much for the time, as

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Speaker 1: always appreciate it, guys. Thanks all right, that's gonna do

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Speaker 1: it for the show tonight. Thanks to Greg ko self

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00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: for being on thanks to John McClain earlier. This will

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Speaker 1: be podcast on the Texans app soon enough, and wherever

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Speaker 1: else fine podcasts are available. We'll be back on tomorrow

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Speaker 1: at six o'clock from Houston, but with plenty of Combine content.

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Speaker 1: Have a great night everyone, and go Texans.