Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Sipher. I'my host, rams
Speaker 1: is Jah.
Speaker 2: They called me q Ward and that just so happens
Speaker 2: to be my actual name.
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, another one for you today, a big one
Speaker 1: for you. Crazy week. You say that every week, but
Speaker 1: unfortunate saying that every week. Unfortunately, Yeah, a lot to
Speaker 1: talk about, and the sad reality is that, unfortunately this
Speaker 1: is an hour long show, and so I already know
Speaker 1: that we won't be able to cover everything that's happened
Speaker 1: in this past week, but we will cover some important things,
Speaker 1: some things that are a long time coming, and of
Speaker 1: course we'll try to discuss some of the police interactions
Speaker 1: that have taken place on the streets this week. If
Speaker 1: we have enough time, we're going to talk about what
Speaker 1: happened in Virginia with you know, the police pepper spring,
Speaker 1: the Army lieutenant pulling him out of his vehicle, and
Speaker 1: of course we have to talk about what happened in
Speaker 1: Minnesota with the police officer mistaking her taser for a
Speaker 1: gun and how that resulted in another lost life for
Speaker 1: all of us human beings. And so please stay tuned
Speaker 1: because there's those and like fifteen more that we've discussed
Speaker 1: during this week, you and I and we just know
Speaker 1: that it's very sad. You have to understand that when
Speaker 1: we do this show, we have to watch all of
Speaker 1: these videos, we have to like live that trauma, and
Speaker 1: we do it with the intent of sharing it. And
Speaker 1: again it's not always possible to share everything, but we
Speaker 1: will do our best. But before we get there, we
Speaker 1: have something that is equally important. As I stated, long overdue.
Speaker 1: You know, we we have discussed, you know, things that
Speaker 1: have happened with our Asian American Pacific Islander brothers and sisters,
Speaker 1: and how the climate in the country has kind of
Speaker 1: shifted in such a way to where they are under
Speaker 1: attack more than they have been in recent years. But
Speaker 1: according to the history of this country, it's nothing new
Speaker 1: because they, just like us, are very easy target when
Speaker 1: things become convenient for the majority. But because of you know,
Speaker 1: we had to discuss voter suppression, we had to discuss
Speaker 1: you know, all these things that were happening, and you know,
Speaker 1: the way the schedule of the show works, we didn't
Speaker 1: get to have this conversation until now, but again just
Speaker 1: as important and so on today's episode we have Shela U.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for joining us, of course,
Speaker 1: of course, and she is a member of the AAPI
Speaker 1: Democratic Caucus as well as an activist and an artist.
Speaker 1: And I've seen some of your art as well, and
Speaker 1: so wonderful to have you on the show today to discuss,
Speaker 1: you know, the goings on with respect to your community. Now,
Speaker 1: because this is a radio show, not everyone can see
Speaker 1: what you look like, and so I'd like for you
Speaker 1: to give them a background of you know, your ethnicity,
Speaker 1: and then also, you know, talk about yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, your your place in the city and how
Speaker 1: you came to hold these positions and so forth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I come from Chinese Chinese parents. I'm Chinese American.
Speaker 3: I identify as Chinese American. My parents immigrated here from
Speaker 3: Taiwan with the intention to raise my brother and I
Speaker 3: here in Arizona, to give us better lives. I thought
Speaker 3: that the education system was better here. So here we are,
Speaker 3: and how I came to where I'm at right now,
Speaker 3: that's a long conversation.
Speaker 1: Some people they have a story that's like propelled them
Speaker 1: into like becoming an activist.
Speaker 3: Or whatever, and so yeah, okay, I think if I
Speaker 3: go back. I was thinking about it on the way here. Actually,
Speaker 3: I always root for the underdog because I get really
Speaker 3: frustrated when I see any kind of injustice happening. I
Speaker 3: think fundamentally, I have a sense of empathy and clear
Speaker 3: conscience around humanity and just moral direction, you know, just
Speaker 3: just on the just like flatline, Let's be good people
Speaker 3: to each other, no matter what the background is, you know,
Speaker 3: we all deserve a chance to live good lives. And
Speaker 3: I was a massage therapist for ten years and have
Speaker 3: always had art and music as a part of my life,
Speaker 3: but didn't really feel like I necessarily had the confidence
Speaker 3: to go out strongly. And this last year, twenty twenty
Speaker 3: Crazy year, I had the chance to be at home
Speaker 3: for two months with nothing to do but my art
Speaker 3: and music, and so I took that time to really
Speaker 3: explore and to have that space almost like remember like
Speaker 3: back in the day when you were a kid, like
Speaker 3: summertime and time didn't really exist and you're just out
Speaker 3: there doing your thing. Like I got reacquainted with that
Speaker 3: part of me, and having that spaciousness to sit and
Speaker 3: create and just be with myself and not feel obligated
Speaker 3: to anything else gave me confidence and then wrapped up
Speaker 3: into that, which I think is really key is the
Speaker 3: social unrest. Obviously, the Black Lives Matter movement was a
Speaker 3: really big component of just the whole year twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: I think was really key. Taking the time to listen
Speaker 3: to our current civil rights leaders Tana Sea Coats, I
Speaker 3: was reading even Kendy, you know, just trying to understand
Speaker 3: where I fit into this picture and then wrapped up
Speaker 3: into that was the pandemic and being then targeted as
Speaker 3: a scapegoat and recognizing like I'm just going to jump
Speaker 3: into it. Are okay, Okay. What I think is important
Speaker 3: for Asian Americans, if we are not already feeling this,
Speaker 3: I think we need to recognize that we now know
Speaker 3: what it feels like to have targets on our backs
Speaker 3: in the modern world, and understanding that this is not
Speaker 3: new for our black and brown brothers and sisters, and
Speaker 3: to recognize that we have to do a lot of
Speaker 3: soul searching to know that our struggles, though may appear different,
Speaker 3: are actually very similar. And it is racism, it's perceptions
Speaker 3: of power, it's power over its oppression. So that is
Speaker 3: big component of what I'm trying to reckon with within myself,
Speaker 3: and so I really want to say thank you for
Speaker 3: giving me the opportunity to come set of the table.
Speaker 3: I've been having these conversations with my Asian American friends
Speaker 3: about how this is new for us. Asian Americans have
Speaker 3: been silent, and there's a big history of why that is.
Speaker 3: We can go into that, I can talk about that,
Speaker 3: but it has prevented us from feeling safe or comfortable
Speaker 3: to speak out on matters, and right now is a
Speaker 3: reckoning and we have to take the time to speak up.
Speaker 3: So here I am hello.
Speaker 1: So and we appreciate it, of course, and you're always welcome.
Speaker 1: That's what this space is for. I do want to
Speaker 1: say that you know, this show is not designed to
Speaker 1: look in the past, and we're not looking backwards in
Speaker 1: terms of you know, who did what to who that
Speaker 1: sort of a thing. We're really looking forward generally speaking. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we have to account for the past and we have
Speaker 1: to really deal with it, but that's the space that
Speaker 1: we try to maintain here. So you know, there's really
Speaker 1: no worries. We're all about community and moving forward. So again,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you coming up. This table is your table
Speaker 1: as much as it is anyone else who is a
Speaker 1: part of the human race. It is a decidedly black space,
Speaker 1: but you know, my understanding is that all people are
Speaker 1: born from out of black people, and so this is
Speaker 1: a space for all of our children, if you will,
Speaker 1: So we're going to get there together. I do want
Speaker 1: to share a quick story, and that's that I met
Speaker 1: Shella at.
Speaker 4: A stop Asian hate rally slash candlelight vigil for the
Speaker 4: victims of the shooting in Georgia.
Speaker 1: And that was heavy, and I think that I don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm saying this, but I feel like I
Speaker 1: need to say it. It felt kind of news that
Speaker 1: might be a mouthful, that might be very sad, but
Speaker 1: it's almost like when we hear about black people losing
Speaker 1: their lives at the hands of white supremacy directly, indirectly,
Speaker 1: whatever the kid, the police brutality and justice, you know,
Speaker 1: and so forth, it's almost like a normal kind of pain.
Speaker 1: And because we deal with it so frequently, maybe it's
Speaker 1: that we know how to cry in a way that
Speaker 1: is I don't know, is that I don't want to
Speaker 1: deny anyone's feelings who's lost someone or who has felt
Speaker 1: their feelings. But what I'm trying to say is that
Speaker 1: this event, the Stop Asian Hate Slash Candlelight Vigil. The
Speaker 1: pain felt different, and I was there and I mourned
Speaker 1: with a people that were coming to terms with you know,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a new reality, and for black folks,
Speaker 1: it's not a new reality. It still hurts. And you know,
Speaker 1: I understand that all of us human beings, no matter
Speaker 1: what side you're on, we all love our dearly departed.
Speaker 1: But to mourn with folks who had not, really it's
Speaker 1: like kind of like we're just born to cry, you know,
Speaker 1: and then when you see people who are not, it's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, in your heart goes out in a different way,
Speaker 1: I suppose. But it was very meaningful to meet you
Speaker 1: there and some of the other folks that you work with.
Speaker 1: Of course, it was a beautiful event. I was glad
Speaker 1: that I was able to participate and listen to the leadership.
Speaker 1: I participated just by you know, holding a candle. I
Speaker 1: did not speak. It was not my place to do that.
Speaker 1: I was just there to participate, and it was beautiful
Speaker 1: and it was a time for me to learn, and
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that I learned by watching
Speaker 1: so many of the other folks that came out in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty to the blm rallies, or to the Wee
Speaker 1: Rising events, or to the other events that took place
Speaker 1: on the streets where there were black spaces and black leadership.
Speaker 1: It shared black ideas with black folks and everyone else
Speaker 1: who came to support. And in this space where I
Speaker 1: met you, it was just beautiful to see all the
Speaker 1: members of all but the members that put on the
Speaker 1: event from the API community, you know, take the microphone,
Speaker 1: speak with conviction and so forth, and so not only
Speaker 1: was it beautiful, it was I think it was healthy,
Speaker 1: and it was of course necessary. I want to read something,
Speaker 1: and please forgive me. I think it's very important. I
Speaker 1: had we call her our teacher, doctor Kimilla Westernberg. She
Speaker 1: was on the show when we were first able to
Speaker 1: broach the subject of you know, stop Asian hate, and
Speaker 1: she shared a passage with me that she wanted me
Speaker 1: to read on the radio. And I've been saving it
Speaker 1: for this episode, and so I want to share it
Speaker 1: with our listeners if if there are no objections. So
Speaker 1: this is from a woman named Isabella Wilkerson. It's from
Speaker 1: a book called Cast the Origins of Our Discontents, and
Speaker 1: it goes as follows. We in the developed world are
Speaker 1: like homeowners who inherited a house on a piece of
Speaker 1: land that is beautiful on the outside, but whose soil
Speaker 1: is unstable, loam and rock heaving and contracting over generations,
Speaker 1: cracks patched, but the deeper ruptures waved away for decades centuries.
Speaker 1: Even many people may rightly say I had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with how this all started. I have nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the sins of the past. My ancestors never
Speaker 1: attacked indigenous people, never owned slaves, and yes, none of
Speaker 1: us was here when this house was built. Our immediate
Speaker 1: ancestors may have had nothing to do with it. But
Speaker 1: here we are, the current occupants of a property with
Speaker 1: stress cracks and bowed walls and fissures built into the foundation.
Speaker 1: We are the heirs to whatever is right or wrong
Speaker 1: with it. We did not erect the uneven pillars or joists,
Speaker 1: but they are ours to deal with now, and any
Speaker 1: further deterioration is in fact on our hands. Unaddressed, the
Speaker 1: ruptures and diagonal cracks will not fix themselves. The toxins
Speaker 1: will not go away, but rather will spread, leech, and mutate,
Speaker 1: as they already have. When people live in an old house.
Speaker 1: They come to adjust to the idiosyncrasies and outright dangers
Speaker 1: skulking in an old structure. They put buckets under a
Speaker 1: wet ceiling, prop up groaning floors, learn to step over
Speaker 1: that rotting wood tread in the staircase. The awkward becomes acceptable,
Speaker 1: and the unacceptable will becomes merely inconvenient. Live with it
Speaker 1: long enough, and the unthinkable becomes normal. And so I
Speaker 1: did want to talk about some of the historic events
Speaker 1: that have taken place, and I know that we don't
Speaker 1: have time to go into all of them, and so
Speaker 1: I implore you, if you're listening to our show today to
Speaker 1: check out our social media. Everything is at Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: CIVS C C I P H E R. But in
Speaker 1: this moment, I'm referring to our Instagram or our Facebook page.
Speaker 1: And we posted earlier in the weeks some examples of
Speaker 1: some historic examples of discrimination against the AAPI community in
Speaker 1: mass by the government. It's not hidden, it's not written
Speaker 1: in a funny way. It's it's not you know, disguised.
Speaker 1: You know they like to disguise racism and legally and
Speaker 1: you know, bills and whatever legislature. No, it was outright
Speaker 1: written that way. And you know, I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: it feels to grow up with that history. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if a lot of folks know about it. But
Speaker 1: we the Black Delegation, have certainly done our best to
Speaker 1: hold this country accountable for things like that, and far
Speaker 1: be it from us to forget about those things right
Speaker 1: now when our brothers and sisters are in a time
Speaker 1: of need and we need government action and government protections
Speaker 1: and so forth. But I did want to ask you
Speaker 1: what was it that went through your head when you
Speaker 1: saw and I'm sure you did, that video of the
Speaker 1: man attacking the woman out in front of the hotel,
Speaker 1: or what went through your head when you learned that
Speaker 1: a person went into these this massage parlor and you know,
Speaker 1: what is it like to wake up on that morning?
Speaker 1: Because a lot of folks don't know what what that
Speaker 1: experience is like.
Speaker 3: Well, m it feels like an attack on your body.
Speaker 3: As a young Chinese American woman who has dealt with
Speaker 3: a number of sexualization over the years and having this
Speaker 3: is the thing about the Asian American experience is that
Speaker 3: so much are shoved under the table, and so most
Speaker 3: of the time we don't have spaces to deal with
Speaker 3: the trauma, deal with the pain. I'm really grateful I've
Speaker 3: had a group of Asian American, mostly women, that I've
Speaker 3: been able to hold space for each other because it
Speaker 3: had that particular week when I found out about the shootings.
Speaker 3: It was really painful. It was it made me walk differently,
Speaker 3: It made me carry myself differently. When I when I've
Speaker 3: walked into public spaces, it's like suddenly I'm I'm walking
Speaker 3: around with armor, and like my whole body is tense
Speaker 3: and whereas my natural demeanor is smiling, friendly. I like
Speaker 3: to say hi to everybody. But these experiences are forcing
Speaker 3: us to really question why I've had to recognize and
Speaker 3: take some time with myself and realize like part of
Speaker 3: how I carry myself and why I make a point
Speaker 3: to speak is because I want people to recognize really quickly,
Speaker 3: like hey, I'm from here. I don't have an accent.
Speaker 3: But the truth is not everybody can show up that way.
Speaker 3: Like my parents, they both have accents. It's it's harder
Speaker 3: to hide, you know, And especially right now we've got
Speaker 3: masks on, we're walking into spaces like there have been
Speaker 3: moments when I've left public places, stores, like walking at
Speaker 3: a home deep way. The other day. I actually ended
Speaker 3: up calling a friend because I was on the brink
Speaker 3: of a panic attack. It's like that feeling where I
Speaker 3: I don't know if something's about to happen, and you
Speaker 3: walk out of a public space and feel like, oh, wow,
Speaker 3: I just I survived. I didn't I survive without any
Speaker 3: racial slurs, without any dirty looks. And a lot of
Speaker 3: Asian Americans are feeling that way. We're feeling that way
Speaker 3: before these shootings because of the former occupant of the
Speaker 3: White House saying scapegoating Asians.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to say what he said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we know what he did, causing that discomfort.
Speaker 3: And so this, this is showing the true colors of
Speaker 3: what that kind of languaging does to this like underbelly
Speaker 3: of America. Right, I've been like sitting a lot with like,
Speaker 3: oh we really, we really exist in two Americas.
Speaker 1: Actually that was kind of what I was thinking. It
Speaker 1: might feel like. Now this is not the same, And
Speaker 1: this is only me trying to empathize, not trying to
Speaker 1: write the story. But I would imagine it's like one
Speaker 1: day waking up and feeling like a stranger in your
Speaker 1: own house. You know, you mentioned your parents, and I
Speaker 1: know what it's like to worry about your parents. That
Speaker 1: feeling sucks because you can't. You have to. You know,
Speaker 1: this is capitalism. We have to get out here and
Speaker 1: get busy, so you can't. You know, watch folks every day,
Speaker 1: especially people who are vulnerable, people who don't have the
Speaker 1: same fight in them, and you recognize that they're in
Speaker 1: a vulnerable stage, and so, you know, I think it
Speaker 1: really helps to know what that's like so that we
Speaker 1: can understand and better empathize. You know, I want to
Speaker 1: share something briefly. You know, before Q and I started
Speaker 1: the show, we had a conversation with my older brother
Speaker 1: whose mother is Korean. His name is raka Iris Science
Speaker 1: of the Dilated Peopils for folks who don't know, and
Speaker 1: he's the one who made sure that we built into
Speaker 1: the show, which we put down of course, but he
Speaker 1: wanted to make it a point that it was a
Speaker 1: space where we could also allow other folks to come
Speaker 1: to the table and share their stories. It was it
Speaker 1: was important that we rise in solidarity. And you know,
Speaker 1: his mother is one of those people. You know, she's
Speaker 1: an Asian woman. I know her. She used to change
Speaker 1: my diapers when I was little, you know so, and
Speaker 1: she still loves me, she loves my kids, you know everything,
Speaker 1: the kindest person and to know how vulnerable she was
Speaker 1: and it is now is particularly concerning. But also he
Speaker 1: made sure to mention some some resources that folks can,
Speaker 1: you know, check out if they want to be more supportive.
Speaker 1: So I want to read some of the things that
Speaker 1: he mentioned, and of course I want you to offer
Speaker 1: some resources for folks who can, who are willing to
Speaker 1: offer even just showing up and holding a candle, they
Speaker 1: want to donate money, any anything like that. But before
Speaker 1: we get there, you know, I checked out some resources
Speaker 1: on social media and if you're on Instagram, these will
Speaker 1: really work for you. One is Asians with Attitudes on Instagram.
Speaker 1: If you look those guys up there right on top
Speaker 1: of this, they have a lot of things that really
Speaker 1: shine a light into the AAPI community and experience that
Speaker 1: you otherwise would not know about. And we follow them
Speaker 1: from the Civic Sipher page and we've been able to
Speaker 1: have establish a dialogue and let them know that we're
Speaker 1: willing to support whenever we can. Another one is at
Speaker 1: Next Shark, which is another group that does the same thing.
Speaker 1: And then there's another one Asians never die. I like
Speaker 1: that word or I like that name. But that's another one,
Speaker 1: you know that he mentioned. And then of course we
Speaker 1: went on to have a conversation about the history between
Speaker 1: black people and Asian people in this country and how
Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of ways we've been able
Speaker 1: to support each other, but in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of growth that we need in
Speaker 1: that relationship so that we can really be there for
Speaker 1: each other in the ways that are really important. So
Speaker 1: you know, more to come on that, But before we
Speaker 1: go to break, I want you to mention any resources
Speaker 1: that you may know that books can take advantage of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, something I think is great is these bystander intervention
Speaker 3: workshops that have been coming out. I was on the
Speaker 3: Asian Americans Advancing Justice website. They're out of Chicago and
Speaker 3: they do online workshops and so a lot of them
Speaker 3: are flow right now, but stay on and like you know,
Speaker 3: check them out and make sure that you can see
Speaker 3: what they're doing. And then also in Arizona there's a
Speaker 3: z A A NHPI for Equity and they do a
Speaker 3: lot of great work to provide resources.
Speaker 1: More time, what was that.
Speaker 3: A Z A NHPI for equity. Okay, they've got a
Speaker 3: lot of great resources.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Okay, very good. So a lot to work with there.
Speaker 1: And if you're just tuning into Civic Cipher, I'm your host, Rams,
Speaker 1: It's Josh. They call me q Ward Special guests in
Speaker 1: the building. Shella, you was a member of the A
Speaker 1: A p I Democratic Caucus who is just a wonderful
Speaker 1: human being and helping share an experience with all of
Speaker 1: us that we may not know about. And of course
Speaker 1: resources to help support our Asian American and Pacific Islander
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. And uh, we also need to talk
Speaker 1: about the goings on of this week. Q I want
Speaker 1: you to do this because this week has been really
Speaker 1: tough for me. I know it's been super tough for you,
Speaker 1: but I want to share a story before I pass
Speaker 1: the mic off. You know, as as I mentioned when
Speaker 1: we started the show, we have to watch all of
Speaker 1: these videos. It's not like you know that if you
Speaker 1: if you know, you know that at a point you
Speaker 1: just don't need to see it. You know, the way
Speaker 1: the story goes, you don't need to see a human
Speaker 1: being get executed, or you don't need to see someone
Speaker 1: get hurt. It doesn't it's not cool to watch it.
Speaker 1: It's so taxing and draining emotionally on your spirit. And
Speaker 1: then once everything is drained from your spirit, you find
Speaker 1: that all that's left in that space is tears. And
Speaker 1: you know, you try to be as tough guy as
Speaker 1: you want to be. You know, I don't really try
Speaker 1: to be a tough guy, but you know, I'm old
Speaker 1: enough to feel what I feel and not makeing excuses
Speaker 1: for it. And I really do feel it. But this
Speaker 1: week I was. I picked up my son from school.
Speaker 1: You know, he's in kindergarten. You got out at ten
Speaker 1: thirty or whatever. And then we went to grandma's house,
Speaker 1: and I know she's listening, So I love you, Gotti.
Speaker 1: We went there and you my son got to hang
Speaker 1: out with his grandma, and then he went upstairs to
Speaker 1: play with his cousins and that was that. And so
Speaker 1: she and I are downstairs and we're talking. And if
Speaker 1: you know Gotty, she's a New Yorker Black, the most
Speaker 1: amazing person, just the light in so many people's lives.
Speaker 1: And I need you to know that because I need
Speaker 1: you to understand what happened. We got to talking, and
Speaker 1: I says, hey, Gotty, I got to step outside for
Speaker 1: a second because Q texted me a video that I
Speaker 1: need to watch because he said he can't watch any
Speaker 1: more videos. And got He asks me, well, what happened,
Speaker 1: and I says, well, the police pulled over a young
Speaker 1: man and the officer says she mistook her hazer for
Speaker 1: a gun. They shot the boy. The young man he's twenty.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight. I was an adult before he was born.
Speaker 1: I think I can have that, but you can't call
Speaker 1: him a boy. That's bad for your health. But they
Speaker 1: shot him and he died in his car. He tried
Speaker 1: to get away from the police, and we got to
Speaker 1: talk him, and you know, everybody asks what happened, but
Speaker 1: God he knows better, because God he knows that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's common for any creature endowed with consciousness to seek
Speaker 1: their customary freedom first and foremost, and anybody that challenges
Speaker 1: that narrative, I immediately don't have any more space for
Speaker 1: a conversation with you. But if I allowed for you
Speaker 1: to get that off in my space, the next thing
Speaker 1: would be, you know, why why is he running? You
Speaker 1: know all these questions right now, I don't know how
Speaker 1: true any of this stuff is, but I had to
Speaker 1: do some research, and what I found is that he
Speaker 1: had had he was too young to be carrying a
Speaker 1: gun once upon a time, which is the same crime
Speaker 1: that the guy in where was he when he shot
Speaker 1: those people? The protesters rittenhouse, I think is his name,
Speaker 1: and Kenosha there you go, same crime that he had.
Speaker 1: You know, he had he was too young to carry
Speaker 1: a gun, and you know I know that. Immediately folks
Speaker 1: minds go to, oh, and then he ran from the
Speaker 1: police before, perhaps for carrying a gun, And folks minds
Speaker 1: go to, Okay, well, you know, why was he carrying
Speaker 1: a gun in the first place? And I think right
Speaker 1: there the hypocrisy begins because at that point, what we've
Speaker 1: done is we've reframed this young man as criminal with
Speaker 1: criminal intent, which may or may not be the case.
Speaker 1: But I think to judge that is extremely unfair because
Speaker 1: as a citizen of the United States, the only person
Speaker 1: that could should judge him is an actual judge. Certainly
Speaker 1: shouldn't be judged, tried, and executed on the street. But
Speaker 1: I think that also that narrative fails to account for
Speaker 1: so many other things, not the least of which is
Speaker 1: that this whole country is gun crazy. The guns are
Speaker 1: the cause and the solution quote unquote to all of
Speaker 1: our problems. Guns and money. And you'll find if you
Speaker 1: get old enough, then money won't save you. And you'll
Speaker 1: find that if somebody pulls a gun out quicker than you,
Speaker 1: that a gun won't save you. Guns are not for protection.
Speaker 1: Guns are for murdering. Protection is a bulletproof best think
Speaker 1: about it. But you know, these are just my thoughts.
Speaker 1: The main thing that I think that folks have failed
Speaker 1: to come to terms with is the history of why
Speaker 1: a twenty year old child on his journey feel so
Speaker 1: afraid of the world that he needs to carry a gun.
Speaker 1: And my belief and what I've seen more often than not,
Speaker 1: even when I listen to music that glorifies these sorts
Speaker 1: of things, and when I watch movies, the types of
Speaker 1: movies that are about you know, the places where Q
Speaker 1: and I come from, Compton, Detroit, you know, cities like that,
Speaker 1: is that the idea there is I'd rather be caught
Speaker 1: with it than caught without it. And so you come
Speaker 1: from an environment where having access to a weapon like
Speaker 1: that may serve as preventative protection. You know, and I'll
Speaker 1: allow for that. Again, I'm not a gun person at all.
Speaker 1: You know that because we argue about it all the time,
Speaker 1: but you know, I've had to allow for that space.
Speaker 1: I walk my path and everyone else walks theirs. But
Speaker 1: that environment was not created by black people to be
Speaker 1: what it is. It's artificially constructed. We know in the
Speaker 1: history of this country that when black people have gotten
Speaker 1: together and hold their resources, our resources, and we've really
Speaker 1: sought independence, economic and otherwise from you know, the larger community,
Speaker 1: that it's often been snuffed out, literally burned to the
Speaker 1: ground time and again. And ghettos are the direct result
Speaker 1: of redlining, which we talk about on the show from
Speaker 1: time to time, and if you're not familiar with it,
Speaker 1: it is the illegal practice now of basically artificially inflating
Speaker 1: property values and providing loans for white people to move
Speaker 1: into white neighborhoods and denying anyone else, not just black people,
Speaker 1: but anyone else from doing the same. And what you
Speaker 1: see during the time where redlining was prevalent in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds in this country is a massive shift
Speaker 1: of wealth away from and there wasn't a lot to
Speaker 1: begin with, away from black folks to white folks, which
Speaker 1: a lot of white families still enjoy to this day.
Speaker 1: And then you have impoverished communities, you have ghettos, and
Speaker 1: in ghettos an impoverished community where there's lots of scarcity,
Speaker 1: you get behaviors that are or often borderline criminal. And
Speaker 1: again it necessitates some degree of protection from the environment
Speaker 1: that you're born into. And so this child carrying a gun,
Speaker 1: whether or not that's even true from an older traffic stop,
Speaker 1: you know, that's why he had a warrant from having
Speaker 1: a gun before and then running from the police before,
Speaker 1: in no way warrants his execution. In no way that
Speaker 1: we didn't have a gun at the time. I was
Speaker 1: trying to run away from the police, understandably so, because
Speaker 1: the police are very trigger happy in this country, and
Speaker 1: he lost his life. You know, we've seen that if
Speaker 1: you stay and cooperate, the police don't treat you good.
Speaker 1: We've seen if you run away, the police don't treat
Speaker 1: you good. There's really a no win situation. And so
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that I said that because
Speaker 1: as I was discussing this with Gotti, she looked at
Speaker 1: me with this horrified look on her face. And when
Speaker 1: I saw that look, I knew what was coming next
Speaker 1: because I saw the picture of the the boy, Dante White,
Speaker 1: and I knew that he bears a resemblance to her grandchildren,
Speaker 1: nearly all of them. And I says, whatever you do,
Speaker 1: please do not look at his picture, and she just
Speaker 1: started balling. And when you see an older black woman
Speaker 1: with the grays in her hair and the skin that
Speaker 1: has been aged by time, and you see that face,
Speaker 1: that beautiful face light up when she sees her posterity
Speaker 1: run in the house and kiss her and run upstairs
Speaker 1: to play their games, and she laughs and giggles in
Speaker 1: the kitchen and has a good good time. When you
Speaker 1: see that turned to fear and pain and you see
Speaker 1: the tears squeeze from her face, it's the most heartbreaking
Speaker 1: thing that you can imagine. And I wept with her
Speaker 1: in that moment, composed myself. I went outside and I
Speaker 1: watched the video. I made sure to stay outside long
Speaker 1: enough for the winds in the house to change. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to share that before I check in with you, Q,
Speaker 1: because that's how my.
Speaker 2: Week went, before I get into how my week went,
Speaker 2: Because the last couple of weeks have been really rough.
Speaker 2: I lost my father's first grandchild and my first nephew,
Speaker 2: first niece or nephew, and my father's children's line to COVID.
Speaker 2: This Thursday will be two weeks ago, and he just
Speaker 2: learned he was going to be a father. Typically, that
Speaker 2: be enough, except because of what we chose to do,
Speaker 2: because of this space that we chose to occupy, there
Speaker 2: is a level of trauma that we have to volunteer for.
Speaker 2: It's the only way we can responsibly do this show.
Speaker 2: So we see, hear about and read more of these
Speaker 2: type of things than most people. I got dressed coming
Speaker 2: here today, and when Grayson sees me get dressed, he
Speaker 2: knows that I'm about to leave him. So as soon
Speaker 2: as he sees me put on a shirt, he starts crying, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I know what this means. Dad, I'm three, but you're
Speaker 2: getting dressed. You're about to leave me? And he cries,
Speaker 2: And in the moment, it always seems silly, baby Daddy
Speaker 2: has to go to work. I'll be back. Except for
Speaker 2: a week. I couldn't celebrate my son out loud because
Speaker 2: my oldest brother is preparing to bury his son. So
Speaker 2: there was an inherent guilt, like I can't be out
Speaker 2: here joyfully lifting my son up. My brother will see this,
Speaker 2: and without trying, he's gonna think about the fact that,
Speaker 2: in the way that you're not supposed to, he's preparing
Speaker 2: to bury his first child. And then I just shared
Speaker 2: a picture with my colleagues here in the studio of
Speaker 2: Dante Wright and his son, and that guilt kicked in
Speaker 2: even more. His one year old doesn't even get to
Speaker 2: experience his dad. He won't have any memories of him.
Speaker 2: So when I'm walking out of the door today and
Speaker 2: my son starts crying, I can't even in good faith
Speaker 2: reassure him that I'll be back. Because what we're starting
Speaker 2: to learn is that there is nothing that we can
Speaker 2: do to avoid this wrath that's just out here looking
Speaker 2: for us. Dressing properly, pulling up our pants, speaking with
Speaker 2: a good dialect, using the King English, staying in between
Speaker 2: the lines on the highway, driving the speed limits, stopping
Speaker 2: at the red light, using your blinker, saying no to drugs,
Speaker 2: not drinking, not driving, complying yes sir, no sir, It
Speaker 2: does not matter. It will seek us out, and with
Speaker 2: everyone sitting at this table today, it will seek us
Speaker 2: out because of how we look, because of the way
Speaker 2: we entered the world, not because of any choices that
Speaker 2: we made or didn't make, not because we did or
Speaker 2: didn't listen to our parents, not because we do or
Speaker 2: don't obey the laws. Because the person carrying around this
Speaker 2: hate and resentment has made up their mind that their
Speaker 2: world is better with out us in it, and we
Speaker 2: just have to hope we're not the one they run
Speaker 2: into that day. And in this space, even the thing
Speaker 2: that says to serve and protect is scary, even more
Speaker 2: so because they have a gun.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: Now in the open carry state of Arizona, everyone might
Speaker 2: have one. They definitely, but the officer that got behind
Speaker 2: me when I turned off my street and route to
Speaker 2: the studio right now definitely does. And now I'm driving
Speaker 2: here terrified, and I've done absolutely nothing that happened right now.
Speaker 2: I didn't get pulled over. I just saw a police
Speaker 2: car behind me. And there's anxiety and fear and stress.
Speaker 2: And that's with a cop car behind me. Now imagine
Speaker 2: that cop isn't in his car anymore. He's standing next
Speaker 2: to yours. And it's dark. I don't have to imagine,
Speaker 2: and there's no one around totally. Don't have to imagine nothing,
Speaker 2: and you can do nothing to protect yourself. The safest
Speaker 2: thing you can do is rid yourself of your self pride,
Speaker 2: rid yourself of your dignity, and bow to this person,
Speaker 2: and then pray that that's enough. Be reverent, comply, be respectful,
Speaker 2: yes sir, no sir.
Speaker 1: Do whatever they.
Speaker 2: Say, even if you fully understand that your human and
Speaker 2: civil rights are being violated. Because the object is to
Speaker 2: not die today.
Speaker 1: We're not trying to avoid jail.
Speaker 2: We're not trying to avoid this ticket that in a
Speaker 2: lot of cases we don't even deserve because we had
Speaker 2: an air freshener hanging from our rear view mirror. Let's
Speaker 2: hope that this seasoned professional with a murder tool pointed
Speaker 2: at you is in a better headspace than you are
Speaker 2: as you sit there terrified. You're not comfortable, you're not rational,
Speaker 2: you're scared. But let's hope the person that does this
Speaker 2: for a living isn't more afraid than you, or that
Speaker 2: they just don't hate you because you're you and feel
Speaker 2: like killing you today with impunity, that's the part that hurts.
Speaker 1: There's no consequence, and your family and your friends almost know.
Speaker 2: That there's no consequence, and the event that they're charged,
Speaker 2: the charge will be lesser, and the event that they're convicted,
Speaker 2: the sentencing will be lighter. And in a lot of cases,
Speaker 2: neither of those things even happen. You have cities, states, municipalities,
Speaker 2: district attorneys that find no reason to even bring charges
Speaker 2: even when it's recorded on video.
Speaker 1: And that's something I want to talk about too. I
Speaker 1: think it was in Virginia. The lieutenant, he's driving, he
Speaker 1: bought a new vehicle. Right, he's driving, and it's when
Speaker 1: he's turn on their lights, right, it's on camera. He
Speaker 1: drives until he pulls into a well lit gas station.
Speaker 1: This is what he says. But because the police were
Speaker 1: behind him for a little bit, they treated it as
Speaker 1: a hostile traffic stop, I guess is what they did.
Speaker 1: And I want to talk more about this. But as
Speaker 1: far as this goes, the reason that they turned the
Speaker 1: lights on is because he didn't have a standard license plate,
Speaker 1: and they said they couldn't see his paper tag from
Speaker 1: the new vehicle in the wind in the back window.
Speaker 1: But as soon as they got into the to the
Speaker 1: gas station that was well lit, you could see it
Speaker 1: in the video. You could see the paper. It's a
Speaker 1: white square in the window.
Speaker 2: But do you know what also happens when you get
Speaker 2: into a well lit area, you can see that the
Speaker 2: motorist is black. The crime is the skin. It's not
Speaker 2: the accent. The crime is your face. You can't take
Speaker 2: it off. You can't speak well enough to change that.
Speaker 2: We all look how we look. That's the crime, right,
Speaker 2: even if there was no tag, no paper tag, no
Speaker 2: heart plate, no nothing. Dude is literally riding dirty. Right,
Speaker 2: he didn't just murder a building full of people with
Speaker 2: an assault rifle. Because when they do that, and they
Speaker 2: meaning white men in the United States, forgive, forgive the
Speaker 2: change in my tone here when they do that, Let's
Speaker 2: make sure they're okay. As a matter of fact, let's
Speaker 2: make sure the public knows that they're not. Let's feel
Speaker 2: sorry for them. Let's empathize because they must have been
Speaker 2: through so much. They had a bad day. Thank you,
Speaker 2: thank you, that right hurt. They had a bad day.
Speaker 2: So you talk about the idea of that new pain,
Speaker 2: and I think what you were describing as a callous.
Speaker 2: It's happened to us so many times that the wound
Speaker 2: has scabbed over, it still hurts, but it hurts different.
Speaker 2: But there is a feeling of wanting to protect our
Speaker 2: Asian American brothers and sisters for going through something that
Speaker 2: we've gone through so much that we're like, yo.
Speaker 1: Let me show you how to do this.
Speaker 2: Stand behind me, let me take this, and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: look at you and say that stand behind me. I
Speaker 2: got you. We got you. If you can hear us,
Speaker 2: we got you. If you're watching this on YouTube and
Speaker 2: you can see us, we got you. Because silence cannot happen,
Speaker 2: apathy cannot happen if one of us is going through this.
Speaker 2: All of us are going through this period because the
Speaker 2: fact that I can't confidently tell Grayson Anthony villaflor Ward
Speaker 2: that I will be home to him tonight is a problem.
Speaker 2: Because his father is an upstanding, college educated man with
Speaker 2: no criminal record, who is never consumed to drink, never
Speaker 2: tried or sold a drug. I should not have to
Speaker 2: worry for my life when I see a police officer
Speaker 2: who lied when he took the oath to serve and
Speaker 2: protect me.
Speaker 1: So I think that it's really important to share a story.
Speaker 1: And if you're just tuning in to Civic Cipher once again,
Speaker 1: host Rams's job. They called me q Ward and we
Speaker 1: have special guests with us. Shallow you again, a member
Speaker 1: of the AAPI Democratic Caucus, artist, activist, and all around
Speaker 1: awesome person. You know. I want to tell a story that,
Speaker 1: of course had a different outcome from the UH, the
Speaker 1: one that took place in Virginia, but similar in terms
Speaker 1: of the experience. And this is for me, another person
Speaker 1: who's never done a drug, another person who has never
Speaker 1: drank alcohol. I don't even say bad words. I call
Speaker 1: them bad words. And I'm thirty eight, you know, so
Speaker 1: definitely say bad words. But you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like I you know, definitely does not know me. You
Speaker 1: won't catch me doing that. It's just not in me
Speaker 1: like that. But anyway, you know, I think I have
Speaker 1: my head on my shoulders, you know again, college educated
Speaker 1: and you know, all the all the above, got a
Speaker 1: lot to live for, never been in any nonsense. But
Speaker 1: even if I was, you know, and let mean, somebody
Speaker 1: has the right to please before you start your story.
Speaker 1: Even if I was a criminal, a bailed out felon
Speaker 1: with a T shirt that said gang member on it.
Speaker 2: I do not deserve to be murdered in the street.
Speaker 1: Hard stop. So sorry. No, you're good. You're good. I
Speaker 1: think that needs to be said. So yeah, A quick
Speaker 1: story before we get out of here. Once upon a time,
Speaker 1: I was driving in my brother's car, who he had
Speaker 1: quote unquote inherited from my sister's boyfriend now fiance. Right,
Speaker 1: my sister's boyfriend had moved out of town and left
Speaker 1: the car and my little brother started driving it, and
Speaker 1: so it became his car. I have a small interest
Speaker 1: in a used car dealership, and so sometimes I switch
Speaker 1: cars and sell cars, and people want to buy the
Speaker 1: car i'm driving, and so that's what happened. So I'm
Speaker 1: driving this hear me on this. It's a two thousand
Speaker 1: and six and when this happened, it might have been
Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen eighteen somewhere in there. Two thousand
Speaker 1: and six Dodge Magnum black tent, black interior with twenty
Speaker 1: two inch rims on it. It is the most gang
Speaker 1: bangorist drug deal in this car. You look like you're
Speaker 1: just serving the block in this car. I cannot stand
Speaker 1: driving that car because I know how it looks. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm from California, right. I love lowriders. I think they're
Speaker 1: the coolest things in the world. I have a low
Speaker 1: rider bike downstairs in my house, and you know, I
Speaker 1: recognize it. To a lot of police it looks like criminal.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not cultural. It's criminal, but of course
Speaker 1: over here it's cultural anyway. Driving the car, and of
Speaker 1: course it's not a terrible looking car, it just looks like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm moving that weight as it were. So
Speaker 1: I had just driven it to I think somewhere in Chandler,
Speaker 1: I want to say, wild Horse Pass and I picked
Speaker 1: up ten thousand dollars cash.
Speaker 2: That's really appen, Oh wow, and it's getting good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So again, fortunately nothing happens. So I don't want to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, scare anyone. But yeah, so I got ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollars and I was wearing some they're like boot
Speaker 1: boots with zippers, right, I've seen those. Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: like kind of a cool style, I think. So immediately
Speaker 1: I take the ten thousand dollars because it's a brick.
Speaker 1: You know, when you get that money from the bank,
Speaker 1: it has the band around it and says how much
Speaker 1: it is. So I put it in my boot because
Speaker 1: why what else am I going to put it? It's going
Speaker 1: to fall out of my pocket and I know my
Speaker 1: boots have zippers, so boom, and then it just looks
Speaker 1: terrible to someone who's looking for something to you know, suspicious, right,
Speaker 1: But I had to pick up this money because I
Speaker 1: was completing a transaction and the person that I was
Speaker 1: meeting pays the cash. You know, there's no problem there.
Speaker 1: And usually having large sums of money is not the
Speaker 1: weirdest thing in the world when you work in the
Speaker 1: industry in which you know have interests. So I'm driving
Speaker 1: on the freeway in a car that's not mine, in
Speaker 1: a car that's not my brothers, and what happens is
Speaker 1: I'm right by the airport driving and the police get
Speaker 1: behind me and they turn the lights on. Right, so
Speaker 1: a medium uh oh, because you know, my sister's boyfriend
Speaker 1: is Jamaican, and Jamaican people, at least the ones that
Speaker 1: I know, they are take in some things which are
Speaker 1: now perfectly legal, you know, but he hasn't driven this
Speaker 1: car for years. So but you know, your mind goes
Speaker 1: to all the places because immediately literally you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is going to happen to me? Not even what
Speaker 1: did I do, but what is going to what could
Speaker 1: happen to me exactly. And so the mistake that I
Speaker 1: made was, you know, being on the freeway the freeway
Speaker 1: splits where I live by the airport, there's a split
Speaker 1: in the freeway and I'm supposed to be on the
Speaker 1: split on the right side, but on the left side
Speaker 1: it goes to a whole different freeway, a whole different direction,
Speaker 1: and I'm not. I don't go that way, So I'm
Speaker 1: lost if I go over there. But the police are
Speaker 1: behind me trying to pull me over. So just like
Speaker 1: the story in Virginia, I slow down, I turn on
Speaker 1: my hazards or blinker or something like that, so the
Speaker 1: police know I'm not trying to run away evading evading, correct,
Speaker 1: But I didn't pull right over because I would have
Speaker 1: been lost and it would have been dangerous if you
Speaker 1: would have seen it. So I'm waiting for the kind
Speaker 1: of the fork to arrive at the fork and then
Speaker 1: I can pull over in that area and they can
Speaker 1: get out and do their business. But then they start
Speaker 1: like honking the horn and flashing the lights at me,
Speaker 1: and so now I'm like really afraid because of that
Speaker 1: same thing, Like if they're upset, it's going to be
Speaker 1: very bad for me. So I pull all the way
Speaker 1: over right, and they, of course because I didn't pull over,
Speaker 1: immediately treated it like it was a hostile and traffic stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's like guns blazing this whole thing. So they
Speaker 1: get out. They got guns on me, and I know
Speaker 1: the drill because I don't know if I mentioned it
Speaker 1: on the show before, but I'm from Compton. So even
Speaker 1: before I was getting pulled out of the car, I've
Speaker 1: seen other people get pulled out of the car, and
Speaker 1: I know the easiest way to survive is you roll
Speaker 1: the window down and you put both of your hands
Speaker 1: outside of the window, facing away from the officer, just
Speaker 1: like that so they can see your hands. Yeah, leave
Speaker 1: them there until they approach the vehicle. Then you have
Speaker 1: your conversation. So that's what happened. They walked up. By
Speaker 1: the time they got to me, I could see that
Speaker 1: they put their guns away and the guy started talking
Speaker 1: to me. Of course, he asked me to step out
Speaker 1: of the vehicle. And I'm not the one to play
Speaker 1: that game because I want to live and I know
Speaker 1: how this goes, so like, okay, step out of vehicle.
Speaker 1: Of course, I called my sister and let her know
Speaker 1: what was going on. This was a few years before
Speaker 1: Facebook Live and all that sort of stuff, so that
Speaker 1: was what I did get out of the car, and
Speaker 1: of course they asked me all the standard questions, Have
Speaker 1: you been drinking any drugs? These sorts of things, And
Speaker 1: I tell them the answer, no, sir, I've never drank
Speaker 1: alcohol in my life. No, sir, I've never done any
Speaker 1: drug in my life. I don't even like taking medicine
Speaker 1: just in case I have to talk to you one day.
Speaker 1: I didn't say that last part isn't when I upset him,
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, like, that's really the reason.
Speaker 1: So you know, he later tells me, he's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that sounds like exactly like something a method would say.
Speaker 1: So that's why we pressed you on this. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, now I know not to say
Speaker 1: that I've never drank alcohol in my life and never
Speaker 1: done a drug in money, but you know, he could
Speaker 1: tell that I was not inebriated, because again I've never
Speaker 1: been inebriated. And then they started asking me where I
Speaker 1: was going and where I was coming from, which for
Speaker 1: some reason is important because that's what happened on the
Speaker 1: videos we saw this week. Some of the videos. So
Speaker 1: you know, I told him I'm leaving the casino. I
Speaker 1: had to, you know, conduct a business transaction. I'm praying
Speaker 1: that he doesn't check my shoe because and it's all
Speaker 1: over and they find that tenjis and pulling my boot,
Speaker 1: which they didn't find. But the whole time, I'm sweating
Speaker 1: because of that, I'm super nervous. And the thing that
Speaker 1: bailed me out, and this has been a get out
Speaker 1: of jail free card for me a couple of times
Speaker 1: over the years, is that I work on radio and
Speaker 1: when they called for backup, one of his partners recognized
Speaker 1: me as being a DJ, and then ultimately the first
Speaker 1: guy ended up apologizing and everything went well. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm saying that to say that I relate to the trauma,
Speaker 1: to the stress, and to everything that goes along with
Speaker 1: these stories. Unfortunately, we're out of time for this week,
Speaker 1: and so please do us a favor of visit the
Speaker 1: website civicsipher dot com download this in any previous episodes.
Speaker 1: I want to thank our guest Shelley you for coming
Speaker 1: to hang out with us.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thanking.
Speaker 1: And be sure to check us out next week. Both myself,
Speaker 1: Ramsa's jaw and q ward And until then, y'all peace, peace,