1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. This episode contains descriptions 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: of sexual exploitation and mentions of rape. Please take care 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: while listening. Last year, Bloomberg Sheridan Prosso went to visit 4 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: one of the biggest rubber plantations in Liberia. 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: It is a very large plantation. The total areas double 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: the size of Chicago, and it's just rose and rose, 7 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: hundreds of rows of green rubber trees after rubber trees 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 2: in all in rows, all very symmetrical. 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: It's called the Liberian Agricultural Company Plantation. It's one of 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: more than a dozen rubber and palm oil plantations in 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: Africa and Asia owned by the European company Sockfin. Sockfin 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: is far from the largest supplier of rubber and palm 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: oil in the world, but it's a major player in 14 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: parts of Africa. 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: It is outsized and turned of its influence and in 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: terms of its importance in the countries and in those 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: economies where it operates. So, for example, in Liberia, it 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: is the number two producer of rubber behind firestone, and 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: rubber constitutes two thirds of the country's exports. So it's 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: a huge employer and hugely important for that country's economy. 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Its palm oil winds up in products from food makers 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: like Nesley, and its rubber is bought by some of 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: the world's largest tire makers, including Continental, Bridgestone and Michelin. 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: The Sackfin plantation sheared and visited in Liberia produces about 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand metric tons of rubber every year. It 26 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: employs more than four thousand people, including a young woman 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: we'll call Rebecca. We're not going to tell you much 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: about Rebecca to protect her identity, but we can tell 29 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: you she's a mother of young children and she works 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: as a tapper. 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: The tapper is somebody who goes around from tree to tree. 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: They cut the bark of the rubber tree. They put 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: little cup on the tree. Think about collecting maple syrup, 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: it's the same idea. It's latex that kind of drips 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 2: out from the tree, goes into a cup. They coagulate 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: that and dry it and turn that into natural rubber. 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: That's where rubber comes from. 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: Like many of her coworkers, Rebecca has lived on the 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: plantation her whole life. It's the only employer in the area, 40 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: and she depends on working there to survive. 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: She grew up in an era where there were back 42 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: to back civil wars in Liberia. She doesn't have an education, 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: She doesn't have any money or any savings to be 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: able to go to a big city and get any 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: kind of other job and a restaurant or anything like that. 46 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: She doesn't even have the means to leave. 47 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: Full time employees of the plantation make five fifty a 48 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: day in US dollars, but Rebecca, like the majority of 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: people working there, is a contract worker, which means she 50 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: makes less money and has to pay more than full 51 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: time employees for food and school tuition for her children. 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: And she's also dependent on supervisor is choosing her for 53 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: work assignments each day. 54 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: Rebecca told me that when she turns up for work 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: in the morning, her supervisor says, you have to have 56 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: sex with me or you can't do your job today. 57 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: And sometimes she'll get a supervisor who doesn't ask that, 58 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: but there's more than one supervisor who does ask that, 59 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: and she's constantly, constantly just faced with the situation of 60 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: how do I feed my kids, how do I do 61 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 2: my job, and how do I fend off the advances 62 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: of this supervisor who keeps these supervisors more than one 63 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: who keep demanding that I have sex in order to 64 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: do my job? 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: How often does this happen to her? 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: When I was asking Rebecca these questions, I asked her, 67 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: tell me about the first time he asked you for sex? 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: And she said, well, he said he wanted me and 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: I said, no, I have my husband. And I said, 70 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: I was trying to get a sense of oh, is 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: that just one time? And she was quiet and I 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: said was it more than one time? She said yeah. 73 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: I said was it more than ten times? She said 74 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: more than And I said was it more than fifty times? 75 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: And she was kind of squirming uncomfortably in her chair 76 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: and she said more than And I said, so, how 77 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: many times have you been asked for sex in order 78 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: to do your job? And she said every day. 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: Today on the show, an investigation into persistent worker abuse 80 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: at Sockfinn, one of the oldest rubber and palm oil 81 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: companies in Africa, Why it's been so hard to stop 82 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: and a new law that could give corporations like Sockfinn 83 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: a big incentive to reform. I'm Sarah Holder and this 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: is the big take from Bloomberg News. Bloomberg Sheridan Prosso 85 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: spoke to eight women like Rebecca, who say they face 86 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: repeated demands for sex in order to work at Sackfinn plantations, 87 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: and eight more people, including a retired school teacher and 88 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: community advocates, spoke on the record about hearing directly from 89 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: women who had similar experiences. Sheridan says complaints about sexual 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: harassment at Sackfinn sites have been surfacing for years. 91 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: So, starting about a decade ago, some local engeos in 92 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 2: various countries, including Liberia and also in Sierra Leone started 93 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: publishing reports about bad conditions on these plantations, and they 94 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: brought those concerns to the management. Sackfinn said, well, there 95 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: haven't been any reports to the police, so it seems 96 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: like it maybe isn't true. And so for a long 97 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: time the company didn't take those allegations seriously because they 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: were applying kind of a Western lens to the idea 99 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: that if you were raped, you were coerced into sex, 100 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: or you had demands for sex by your supervisor on 101 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: a daily basis, as was reported to be happening there, 102 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: that you would go to the police. And that's not 103 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: what happens on a plantation in rural Africa. 104 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: None of the eight women shared and spoke with filed 105 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: a formal complaint about the sex for work demands they faced. 106 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: There aren't really police to go to that people have 107 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: access to to make complaints like that, and if you 108 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: do make a complaint, you lose your livelihood, you can't 109 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: feed your children, and so the repercussions that these women 110 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: have long faced for trying to come forward have allowed 111 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: the company for a long time to not really see 112 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: that there was a very deep and systematic problem at 113 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: many of its plantations. 114 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: Soffin has been producing rubber and palm oil since the 115 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: eighteen nineties. It got its start in the Belgian Congo 116 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: during the rule of King LEOPOLDI. 117 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Soffin is one of the only legacy institutions, one of 118 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: the only producers of rubber and palm oil that's been 119 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: around since the colonial era and is still operating as 120 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: countries gained their independence all throughout the nineteen sixties. In 121 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: that era in Africa, it lost a lot of its holdings, 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: but then it started regaining and expanding them into the 123 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: nineteen nineties and two thousands, when there was a wave 124 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: of privatization across Africa and Sackfinn then acquired a whole 125 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: bunch of concessions that were suddenly being privatized and at 126 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: the same time countries recovering from civil wars that wanted 127 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: to bring in foreign investors. 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: Today, Sackfinn has two owners. One of them is Vonceanne Bollerat, 129 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: who is sometimes called the rupert Murdoch of France. His 130 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: fortune is worth about nine billion US dollars and through 131 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: his holding company Bollerrat Se, he's the largest shareholder in 132 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: the French media company Vivendi. 133 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: It's a very large conglomerate and as part of the TV, 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: the radio and newspaper empire that he owns, he has 135 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: increasingly been pushing a kind of right wing ish conservative agenda. 136 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: Bollat is one of the wealthiest men in France and 137 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: through his holding company, he also owns about thirty five 138 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: percent of Sockfinn. 139 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 2: And he has long maintained that because he's a minority owner, 140 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: he says he's not responsible for anything that Sackfinn does, 141 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: and he's not responsible for its daily management. 142 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: That would be the other co owner. 143 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: So the person who is responsible for its daily management 144 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: is Ubert Fabrie, and he is a Belgian businessman. His 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: father was connected to the original founders of the Suckfinn empire. 146 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: Fabri declined to be interviewed for the story, and a 147 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: spokesperson for Ballerat and for his holding company also declined 148 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: to comment. Nonprofits had been raising concerns about Sackfinn's labor 149 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: and environmental practices for years. In twenty sixteen, some of 150 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: Sackfinn's customers started pushing for reforms. 151 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: And Nessley in particular started asking for Sockfinn to improve 152 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 2: some of its practices. So that pressure started happening from 153 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 2: consumer companies that realized that things were kind of changing 154 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: and that they also had to make sure that their 155 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: supply chains reflected kind of a broader commitment to sustainability 156 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: and good labor practices. 157 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: Sackfinn agreed to partner with a Swiss NGO called the 158 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Earthworm Foundation to develop some social responsibility guidelines and assess 159 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: allegations of sexual abuse and other issues. Over the years, 160 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: more and more allegations came to light, and in twenty 161 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: twenty three, Earthworms started conducting audits, interviewing hundreds of workers 162 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: at eight Sackfinn plantations. At all of the plantations it audited. 163 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: Earthworm found credible evidence substantiating these allegations of sexual harassment, 164 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: and there were a lot of other problems too. 165 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: So Sockfin has long faced allegations of paying workers poorly 166 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: and not equipping them fully with the productive equipment that 167 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: they need for their jobs, or deducting that equipment from 168 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 2: their pay. The company has recently conducted its own audits 169 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: to see if those allegations were true, and did find 170 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: that in some cases, workers were still working twelve hours 171 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: a day without overtime pay. 172 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: At five plantations, Earthworm found evidence to support some, but 173 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: not all, allegations of labor rights and worker safety violations. 174 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: The company says it's been taking steps to remedy these issues. 175 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: Lawsuits and complaints have also accused Stockfinn of causing environmental damage. 176 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: Access to fresh drinking water is a problem in many 177 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: of those plantations, according to the audits that have been 178 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: done recently. 179 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: The company has also faced allegations of appropriating farmland and 180 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: destroying villages without fully comb and saving the people the 181 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: company displaced. 182 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: So there are still these outstanding issues about land, about labor, 183 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: about environmental issues, and definitely about sexual harassment. And even 184 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: allegations of rape. 185 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: Sackfin has not disputed Earthworm's findings. The company says it 186 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: has taken steps to address sexual harassment, including issuing a 187 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: series of action plants. 188 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: Things like put up a sign no sex for jobs, 189 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 2: or strengthen our sexual harassment training policy. And when I 190 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 2: visited the plantation in late twenty twenty four, people told 191 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: me that there had not been any improvement because putting 192 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: up a sign that says no sex for jobs, offering 193 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: more training on your sexual arrassment policy, or strengthening your 194 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 2: sexual harassment policy was not the solution to this systemic problem. 195 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: A spokesperson for the company said in an email that 196 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: Sackfinn has obtained numerous environmental certifications and has quote a 197 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: deep seated commitment and drive to uphold the highest sustainability 198 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: standards coming up why a new EU law could soon 199 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: pressure Stockfin to change. In twenty twenty four, the European 200 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Union passed a piece of landmark legislation. It was designed 201 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: to hold corporations accountable for environmental, labor and human rights 202 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: violations throughout their supply chains, and it has teeth when 203 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: it goes into effect in twenty twenty seven, it will 204 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: allow regulators to find violators more than five percent of 205 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: their annual revenue. For context, Sackfinn's revenue in twenty twenty 206 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: three was about a billion US dollars. That's the last 207 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: full year we have data for because the owners took 208 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: the company private last September. Bloomberg Sheridan Prosso says the 209 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: law could have profound effects on the power dynamics between 210 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: the companies that own rubber plantations and the people who 211 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: work on them. 212 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: That's a whole game changer. This is the harshest law 213 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: that's ever been passed anywhere in the world, holding companies 214 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: accountable for what happens at the end of their supply chains, 215 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: anything that happens that affects people, that harms people at 216 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: the end of their supply chains, and that they can 217 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: be sued by the Rebeccas of Africa, by people in 218 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: Africa who can show direct harm from the company, either 219 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 2: negligently or willfully allowing these bad things to happen. 220 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: How has that changed how customers of sackfin have reacted 221 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: to these kinds of reports and allegations. 222 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: I think that the fact that all of the individual 223 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: countries of Europe have to put in place their own 224 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 2: measures that involve fines that involve potentially in the case 225 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: of deforestation import bands, the finds are pretty substantial, and 226 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: the threats of lawsuits are even more substantial. I think 227 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: it does seem that that is raising the sense of 228 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: urgency for the end suppliers that not just Sockfinn could 229 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: get sued under these new laws, but Michelin, Continental, Bridgetone 230 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 2: and potentially even Nesle could be sued too. 231 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Nesli doesn't purchase products directly from Sckfinn anymore, but Sckfinn 232 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: palm oil is still part of its supply chain. What 233 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: have these companies said so far when you spoke to 234 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: them about what you found? 235 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: Well, I mean Nesli says that they take a supplier 236 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 2: engagement seriously and they work with them to try to 237 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: establish best practices right and they for a long time 238 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: required their suppliers to be certified as environmentally sustainable. 239 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Sheridan also asked tire company leaders for their reactions to 240 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: the sex for work demands at Sackfinn's plantations. 241 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: Michelin said, first of all, they said they were not 242 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: aware of the sex for work demands that was going 243 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: on at Sockfinn's plantation, even though they directly source from 244 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: lack in Liberia, and even though those audit results were published, 245 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: including the action plans for how to deal with it 246 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 2: were published on Sackfin's own website, but they said they 247 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: weren't aware, and if they were aware, the CEO of 248 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: Micheline told us we would of course not be sourcing 249 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: from the company that allows that to happen. In the 250 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: case of Bridgetone, though they said that they did know 251 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: and that they have been working with the company since 252 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 2: they found out to try to also improve its practices. 253 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: But Sheridan says one of the issues she found in 254 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: her reporting is that action plans and best practices on 255 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: paper often failed to translate to change on the ground. 256 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: One of the things in particular was they set up 257 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: something called gender committees, and the gender committee at each 258 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: plantation is supposed to take complaints from the women and 259 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: to try to figure out how to deal with issues 260 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: of allegations and investigate them and see if it's true. Well, 261 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: in the cases of the gender committee, the audits themselves 262 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: found that many of them were ineffective. They didn't have 263 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: office space, nobody knew how to contact them, they'd never 264 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: actually operate. They were just set up in name only. 265 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: It's an open question whether the new EU law will 266 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: be able to change the long standing issues at Sackfinn plantations. 267 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: Have the advocates that you've spoken to, who have been 268 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: doing this work for a long time trying to raise awareness, 269 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: do they feel hopeful about that new urgency. 270 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: First of all, twenty twenty seven is a little bit 271 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: of a ways away, and for the people who are 272 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: working to improve conditions right now on the ground in 273 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, two years of sex demands for Rebecca 274 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: are too long to wait. 275 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: In the meantime, one plantation in Liberia has seen improvements, 276 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: but not by Sockfen. After Sackfin sold the Salala Rubber 277 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: Court plantation in August twenty twenty four, it's new owner 278 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: began addressing long standing worker complaints, including a lack of 279 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: safety equipment, medical resources, and generally poor living conditions on 280 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: their plantation. 281 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: The new owner is an Indian businessman who has worked 282 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: in Liberia for a long time. He goes by. 283 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: GT that's short for Upjets, saying such Diva, Such Diva 284 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: says he isn't aware of reports of sexual abuse or 285 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: harassment and hasn't read Earthworm's audits, but he also says 286 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: he's committed to Stockfinn's action plan. 287 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: So gd came in and immediately made some improvements in 288 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: What he did was immediately renovate worker housing and then 289 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 2: he bought medical supplies for the clinic hospital clinic that 290 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: had been completely emptied of supplies. He ordered an ambulance. 291 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: He renovated the school for the worker's children, and he 292 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: started feeding the children of the eight hundred workers on 293 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: the plantation daily meals hot meals at school. 294 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: Has he taken any steps to address the systemic issues 295 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: that are behind the sex for work allegations. 296 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: So one of the things he also did was he 297 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: changed the way that people are compensated, so instead of 298 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: having to meet a quota in order to get paid, 299 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 2: you get paid by how much you produce. So that 300 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: helped people not feel so drained as to try to 301 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: get so much work done, because part of the problem 302 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: is that in order to get that work done, men 303 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 2: were hiring women to do proofree chores for them. 304 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: Proof reachores like cleaning the cups used to collect latex 305 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: when it drips out of rubber trees. 306 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: But sometimes the men would say, well, now you have 307 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: to have sex with me or else I'm not going 308 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: to pay you, And so that was common on the plantation. 309 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: So GD changed that system too, and he now employs 310 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: cup cleaners as actual employees and they get one hundred 311 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: dollars a month instead of fifteen or a demand for sex. 312 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: Another thing is that there was a kind of a 313 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: debt service that people who needed money for like an emergency, 314 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: and so he did away with that. If you need 315 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: money for medical emergency, you can get it for free 316 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: and then it just gets deducted from your pay without 317 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: a huge interest, right. So there were various things like 318 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: that he has done to try to improve the conditions 319 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: of the people. And I think one of the things 320 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: that becomes clear is that maybe just a few management 321 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: changes on some of these plantations could actually result in 322 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 2: just a much better working system of much better conditions 323 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: for other workers there. 324 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: And did you get to talk to any of the 325 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: women post new leadership and did you hear about any 326 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: changes in their experiences of sexual harassment and abuse? 327 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: When I visited the plantation in November, it had only 328 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 2: been reopened for a week, and since then there have 329 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: been some issues about unrest still, some people who didn't 330 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: get their jaws back who wanted them, or there's been 331 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 2: it's dry seasons, or there's been some wildfires, and so 332 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: the conditions now are a little bit too unstable, but 333 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: we'll have to see over the longer term whether it 334 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: makes a difference. 335 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 336 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by David Fox. It was edited 337 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: by Tracy Samuelson and Robert Friedman. It was fact checked 338 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: by Audrenatapia and mixed and sound designed by Alex Uguera. 339 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Julianne Wilkinson and Henry Baker. Our senior 340 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: producer is Naomi Shaven and your editor is Elizabeth Ponso. 341 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: Our deputy executive producer is Julia Weaver. Our executive producer 342 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: is Nicole Beamster. Bar Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. 343 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and 344 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It 345 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: helps people find the show. We'll be back tomorrow.