Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there is Jerry Jerome Rowland,
Speaker 1: and it's Stuff you should Know. Back Together Again on
Speaker 1: the Cow about how panicalta, although this will be released
Speaker 1: after the other episode where we're back together again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so like us, That is typical. We'll screw up
Speaker 1: our own reunion, that's right. Yeah, we'll have to use
Speaker 1: the way back machine to get things right. Okay, I
Speaker 1: think we gotta tell everyone what's going on here, though
Speaker 1: hopefully you're listening on earbuds or headphones. If not, we
Speaker 1: encourage you too, because this is special episode where we
Speaker 1: were recording in three D audio, and I think we
Speaker 1: should explain what's going on in this room. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel like we're transgressing if we talk about it,
Speaker 1: and really, yeah, because it might do something to us.
Speaker 1: Uh No, I think we should describe this microphone. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a little scared of it, but go ahead. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm on one side, so Josh and I you know,
Speaker 1: we finally get back together to record and it's nothing
Speaker 1: like a normal experience, not even the same studio, different studio.
Speaker 1: We're sitting side by side, which is weird, although I'm
Speaker 1: just pretending it's a live show. Uh. And in front
Speaker 1: of us is this microphone with human ears? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: they're like plastic snow white ears. Yeah, like the creepiest
Speaker 1: white you could imagine. Yeah, it's and then they have
Speaker 1: like bolts going around and stuff too. It looks like
Speaker 1: it looks like I'm afraid of it. That's what it
Speaker 1: looks like to me. I don't like it one bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the idea is that we talk into these ears
Speaker 1: and it produces a different sonic experience for the listener
Speaker 1: at our expense, right, because it's three D audio week, right,
Speaker 1: it is. So I think a lot of our shows
Speaker 1: are doing this, right, I'm pretty sure almost all of them.
Speaker 1: So if you're like, man, this is the most amazing
Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard, just start go and start listening
Speaker 1: to my heart shows this week, because they're going to
Speaker 1: have a lot of cool stuff going. Yes, and I
Speaker 1: imagine many other shows other than ours will have make
Speaker 1: better use of the technology and not just talking to
Speaker 1: the ears. Talk to the ear. Hey, you know a
Speaker 1: little known fact, by the way, these ears are modeled
Speaker 1: after Stellmark's ears. Oh, it's part of his form. Looks
Speaker 1: like that's okay. So we're talking actually not about three
Speaker 1: D audio today, but instead we're talking about the IVY Leagues,
Speaker 1: which obviously is the topic you pick when you're doing
Speaker 1: a three D audio stunt. Right, Yeah, And I've got
Speaker 1: a couple of quick quotes, if you'll allow. I have
Speaker 1: two friends we share one who went to IVY League schools. Well,
Speaker 1: my friend Rob Elsie, who you do do not know.
Speaker 1: He was my roommate at Georgia for a year and
Speaker 1: I still know. Rob's still friends with him. He went
Speaker 1: to Harvard Law after going to Georgia, and he said
Speaker 1: this that I want to read it exactly. I don't
Speaker 1: want to paraphrase. He said, I always had the perception,
Speaker 1: if you were there in a grad school context, you
Speaker 1: weren't really considered part of the club. And then he
Speaker 1: expanded on that and he said, uh, you know a
Speaker 1: huge number of your classmates came from Ivy's as undergrad.
Speaker 1: So as a grad student coming in from Georgia, he said,
Speaker 1: it was almost like transferring to a new school in
Speaker 1: the middle of a school you're kind of vibe like, oh,
Speaker 1: you went to Georgia and now you're up here with us.
Speaker 1: But he did say it was really coolly diverse in
Speaker 1: law school. And he said, not just like ethnically diverse,
Speaker 1: but he said my class had a former New York
Speaker 1: City beat cop, a cardiologist from China, a former grade
Speaker 1: school teacher. He said, just a lot of really unique experiences. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I asked our other friend, John Hodgman, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right with the Yale of course, if he wanted
Speaker 1: to provide a quote, and he said this a Yale
Speaker 1: man never comments on a podcast. That's pretty funny. Um.
Speaker 1: I know. Hodgeman talked about being invited to I think
Speaker 1: the Skull and Bones club later in life. In one
Speaker 1: of his books, was the Skull and Bones or was
Speaker 1: it one of the other ones. I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 1: was good. I don't know, I don't know. It was
Speaker 1: a great story. It's one of their secret societies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm not surprised to hear that the Harvard Law
Speaker 1: School is pretty diverse because l Woods was there and
Speaker 1: she diversifies everything. I don't know who that is that's
Speaker 1: illegally blonde reference. Okay, oh man, the ear got it
Speaker 1: starting to complete a little bit, you know, it twitched
Speaker 1: into light. Also, before we really dive in, Chuck, I
Speaker 1: have to say, am I dreaming right now? Because we're
Speaker 1: sitting next to each other and it just is is
Speaker 1: beyond weird. I just have to go on about another minute, Like,
Speaker 1: we haven't recorded together in over a year, we haven't
Speaker 1: been in the same room together, and over here, I
Speaker 1: don't know I have been in a room with a
Speaker 1: person who's not my wife without a mask on, same here,
Speaker 1: without number one hyperventilating or doing it at all. And
Speaker 1: then the fact that we're going to be sitting here
Speaker 1: together for like hours. It's just mind boggling to me. Hey,
Speaker 1: get back to everybody a science, are you? Yes? It is,
Speaker 1: Josh and I will not die because of this. No, No,
Speaker 1: because we were backed. We're gonna grow that baby head
Speaker 1: out of our back that like the bosses around it happens.
Speaker 1: But other than that, we're gonna be good alright. Ivy Leagues. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I had, the Grabster
Speaker 1: helped us out with this one. Um, and I had
Speaker 1: no idea what the IVY League truly is like when
Speaker 1: everybody thinks of the IVY League, you think of, if
Speaker 1: you know what you're talking about eight schools, sometimes referred
Speaker 1: to as the Ancient Eight. There among the oldest schools
Speaker 1: in America. You got Brown Go Bears, Colombia Go Lins,
Speaker 1: Cornell Go Big Red, Dartmouth Go Big Green, Harvard Go Crimson, yea,
Speaker 1: the Crimson tide Um, Pennsylvania Go Quakers. Yeahs um Princeton
Speaker 1: Go Tigers. And then yeah, Hodgments all the model Hodgmans.
Speaker 1: And of those eight, seven of them were founded before
Speaker 1: the United States was even around. Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: kind of one of the cool things about the IVY League,
Speaker 1: which spoiler, it's really just an athletic conference. That's what
Speaker 1: I didn't know. Did you know that? You know, I
Speaker 1: think I knew that, But when I first started looking
Speaker 1: into this as a topic, you think of IVY League
Speaker 1: as a concept, rightfully, I think, because it is that,
Speaker 1: but at its root it is it's a sports athletic conference. No,
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird because one of the other things
Speaker 1: you don't think of when you think of the IVY
Speaker 1: League is sports. Yeah, not really, it's I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're in defensing, rowing, lacrosse, um wrestling, share backgammon, UM
Speaker 1: track and field, you might think of the I V
Speaker 1: S and in fact, like UM women's rowing has been
Speaker 1: dominated apparently by UM the IVY League's cry Brown and um, oh,
Speaker 1: I think it's Cornell women. If I'm not mistaken, I'll
Speaker 1: look I haven't written down somewhere else, So if that's
Speaker 1: not right, I'll correct myself or totally forget to correct
Speaker 1: myself as usual. Um. But yeah, for the most part,
Speaker 1: you don't think sports, even though they do play. It's
Speaker 1: a Division one A A conference also known as Division
Speaker 1: one FCS, so they're not Division one A like they
Speaker 1: wouldn't normally play like Georgia or or Alabama or something
Speaker 1: like that. All right, they play teams like UM, Howard University,
Speaker 1: Holy Cross, UM San Diego, like the kind of universities
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I didn't know they had a College
Speaker 1: for All team, Like that's the Division Division one FCS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and occasionally the IVY League will get a basketball team
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Yeah, I'm talking about it feels like
Speaker 1: once every fifteen years or so. Yale has had some
Speaker 1: pretty long good streaks, right, I don't remember Harvard and
Speaker 1: Princeton have had a couple of teams that like went
Speaker 1: to the March Madness Tournament and you know, it's h
Speaker 1: they're they're kind of fun to watch. It's a bunch
Speaker 1: of it's a three point shooting fests from from a
Speaker 1: bunch of white kids, is it. Yeah, yeah, those are
Speaker 1: fun though. I like three point shooting fests. So I
Speaker 1: really love the Golden State Warriors for a while there
Speaker 1: not these days though, No, no, yeah, I mean they've
Speaker 1: kind of hit on hard time, Chuck. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know. Oh I knew they did last year,
Speaker 1: but I thought they were coming back. So the thing
Speaker 1: is that was like what we're talking about sports? People
Speaker 1: are like, why are you talking about sports? This is
Speaker 1: how the IVY League episode, How the IVY League Works episode.
Speaker 1: So um, we're gonna basically stop talking about sports in
Speaker 1: a little bit. But you have to talk about sports
Speaker 1: because it's like you said, it's a sports league, but
Speaker 1: it's it's just just completely disingenuous to say, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's at the IVY League is a sports league. It's
Speaker 1: so much more than that has really so little to
Speaker 1: do with it being a sports league. It just so
Speaker 1: happens that these elite institutions that were elite long before
Speaker 1: the sport of football came around, happened to join into
Speaker 1: a conference together informed a yeah sports conference. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it it really is a concept, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's a grouping of schools, like you said, are among
Speaker 1: the oldest, the most prestigious. Uh, we'll talk about their
Speaker 1: elite status and whether or not that's true. It is
Speaker 1: whether or not they are elitists. They can be, but
Speaker 1: they're trying to fix that, Josh not you know, those
Speaker 1: ears can't see you. I don't know that's the point.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's where I mean, we'll get
Speaker 1: to all this, but it's where the presidents of the
Speaker 1: unit I did States and Supreme Court justices and CEOs
Speaker 1: of huge law firms and companies go to school. You know. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The idea is that if you make it into an
Speaker 1: ivy League school, you can basically write your own ticket
Speaker 1: from the United States, right. Yeah, And it's been that
Speaker 1: way for a really long time and for a really
Speaker 1: long time that that is just how it was. But
Speaker 1: then when they started to kind of expand and try
Speaker 1: to be bastions of higher education that serve also seoeconomic
Speaker 1: status is give the best and the brightest, regardless of
Speaker 1: your income a fast track to that. It became clear
Speaker 1: that that's not necessarily how it works. That in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, Ivy League schools really are just this
Speaker 1: conveyor belt for dynasties, you know that that just serve
Speaker 1: the highest echelons of society. But it is it's unfair
Speaker 1: to say that they aren't doing anything about that or
Speaker 1: don't do anything about it. They do try to counteract that. So, uh,
Speaker 1: if I were to write my own ticket, you know
Speaker 1: it would be Jay Walking. Really, I was gonna say Aerosmith.
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that kind of ticure. Man. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: you gotta expand your mind. Now I gotta pay some
Speaker 1: stupid Jaywalkee. Fine, and you're rocking out to Arios. Now
Speaker 1: you met the wrong direction with that, al right, So
Speaker 1: I guess we can talk about the origin of the
Speaker 1: name IVY League. Um, there is one. Well, there are
Speaker 1: a couple of stories that that are not true that
Speaker 1: you still hear people say are true in certain circles.
Speaker 1: None Ivy circles. Uh. It's that when they first got
Speaker 1: together to talk about forming a sports league, there were
Speaker 1: four schools, so they used the Roman numeral four, which
Speaker 1: is an I V and they called themselves ivy league.
Speaker 1: That is not true, or that I saw a kind
Speaker 1: of elitist lee. Um. It was the outsiders saw the
Speaker 1: Roman numeral four and called the ivy incorrectly, which is
Speaker 1: even more like even worse. But yes, that's just not true.
Speaker 1: There's another story that's a little closer to the truth
Speaker 1: that this one sport writer in the thirties um complained
Speaker 1: that he was gonna have to watch the ivy grow
Speaker 1: at some of these IVY covered institutions when he was
Speaker 1: assigned to cover I think a Columbia football game, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Columbia Penn game in nineteen thirty seven, and Casswell Adams
Speaker 1: was not too happy about that assignment. No, and so
Speaker 1: his his editor, guy named Stanley Woodward of the New
Speaker 1: York Herold Tribune, took that ivy thing and ran within
Speaker 1: created the ivy League. That story is probably not true either,
Speaker 1: but it does seem like Stanley Woodward is a good
Speaker 1: bet for the person who came up with the term
Speaker 1: ivy league, right, and then in nineteen thirty five was
Speaker 1: officially used in print from AP editor Alan Gould. But
Speaker 1: it seems like the It seems like it might just
Speaker 1: be as simple as the fact that these are schools
Speaker 1: that literally have a bunch of buildings with ivy colored walls,
Speaker 1: not colored, but ivy growing on the walls, right, which
Speaker 1: is this kind of um It has like a distinguished
Speaker 1: air to it. It's it lends like this umw super
Speaker 1: upper crust vibe ivy. Letting ivy grow up the walls
Speaker 1: of your institution. It's definitely like it's a certain thing
Speaker 1: and it creates a certain vibe. And that vibe just
Speaker 1: happens to be exactly what the Ivy League schools are
Speaker 1: all about. And I mean they even have like ivy
Speaker 1: planting ceremonies for incoming classes. Um. And I believe all
Speaker 1: except Yale let ivy grow still. But Yale, I think,
Speaker 1: starting back in the eighties started cutting their's back because
Speaker 1: it's actually not good for your building. Ivy roots get
Speaker 1: into masonry joints, they hold moisture. It's not a it's
Speaker 1: a bad jam basically, and it can really cut into
Speaker 1: your annual take from your endowment to fix those buildings.
Speaker 1: So Yale said no more. They have a little bit
Speaker 1: of ivy crawling up a couple of halls, but for
Speaker 1: the most part it's gone from the campus. I've got
Speaker 1: IVY on my part of one of my privacy fences
Speaker 1: between my neighbor and I built that privous defence when
Speaker 1: we moved in myself with my own hands, and IVY
Speaker 1: started growing and now as a complete wall of IVY
Speaker 1: and it looks awesome. Yeah, I think it's a mosquito farm,
Speaker 1: is what I've heard, but I don't want to. I mean,
Speaker 1: I trim it back, but I'm gonna leave it there
Speaker 1: because it looks really cool. It's also chipmunks love to
Speaker 1: live in there too, So how can you how can
Speaker 1: you do away with the chipmunk house? Can't get rid
Speaker 1: of their habitat? Where would they go? I know? Um,
Speaker 1: you want to take a little break. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go get a Q tip for this microphone. Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: be right back. I'm gonna go breathe into a paper
Speaker 1: bank for a little bit. That's so much stuff from
Speaker 1: Josh and shock stuff you sh all right, chuck. So
Speaker 1: we're back. Um. And So the IVY League, as we
Speaker 1: were saying, basically came out of the formation of the
Speaker 1: sports league itself. It was probably a sports editor named
Speaker 1: Stanley Woodward came up with the name UM. And what
Speaker 1: I think really just kind of underscores the IVY League's
Speaker 1: approached to sports is that the reason the IVY League formed,
Speaker 1: and it try there are some stops and starts in
Speaker 1: the beginning of the twentieth century, especially in like the
Speaker 1: thirties UM, where you know, not all eight were involved
Speaker 1: or at all eight were allowed in and some people
Speaker 1: were mad and all that, and it just didn't quite
Speaker 1: come together until the mid forties when they came together
Speaker 1: and formed the Ivy Group Agreement in all eight schools
Speaker 1: didn't and they basically did it to say, uh, we're
Speaker 1: really worried about this kind of growing influence of sports,
Speaker 1: and in particular football, we want to make sure that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen in our school. So they formed a sports
Speaker 1: league to better control roll football as far as it's
Speaker 1: balanced with academic life. That's what the IVY League Sports
Speaker 1: League was based on. Yeah, and I think there were
Speaker 1: some worries too about the danger of football early on,
Speaker 1: because you know, back then, actually I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of what the helmets were like. They were not much.
Speaker 1: They were basically like um, like a sheep skin wrapped
Speaker 1: around her head and then you hope for the best. No,
Speaker 1: I think that was post just leather heads years. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think that was still into the fouries.
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe the late fifties early sixties
Speaker 1: when they started like the helmet with the single ball
Speaker 1: but faces right, No, nothing like that. I remember at
Speaker 1: the college or the Pro Football Hall of Fame they
Speaker 1: have like the helmets through the years right when you
Speaker 1: kind of first come in, and it is pretty jarring
Speaker 1: to look at those early ones and drink that those
Speaker 1: guys were just so concussed. The widow maker, that's what
Speaker 1: they called that leather helmet with the ears. Yeah we're
Speaker 1: okay and protected. But yeah, I think they just took
Speaker 1: like the little wrestling ears and threw some leather on
Speaker 1: top of that. Uh so, Yeah, they signed the Ivy
Speaker 1: Group Agreement. They said football is dangerous and we don't
Speaker 1: want it to get in the way of school. And
Speaker 1: then in fifty four they expanded that to include all
Speaker 1: the competitions athletic athletically speaking. And then I think in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six they actually started playing these sports and
Speaker 1: they finally got around into it. Then yeah, and it
Speaker 1: was I think there was the Eastern Intercollegiate Basketball League
Speaker 1: was where they first played basketball in nineteen o one,
Speaker 1: and then they rolled that into the IVY League when
Speaker 1: they finally came around in fifty six. So they like
Speaker 1: to claim, uh that they are the oldest n C
Speaker 1: Double A Division one basketball conference because of that first
Speaker 1: UH was that the E I b L Um not
Speaker 1: the prettiest acronym I've ever seen. Um, But the that
Speaker 1: IVY group agree. And then later on the formation of
Speaker 1: the IVY League, UM, like I was saying, they wanted
Speaker 1: to balance academics with sports. There were basically like, these
Speaker 1: students are here to learn, but if they have time
Speaker 1: or they're interested in sports, shirt, we'll let them play sports.
Speaker 1: So they kind of um sketched out some rules that
Speaker 1: other universities and colleges would find to be utter madness. UM,
Speaker 1: no athletic scholarships whatsoever, Like if you you can't go
Speaker 1: to an IVY League school and an athletic scholarship, like
Speaker 1: financially it's supposed to be reserved for the the the
Speaker 1: brightest students of less means or lower means than the
Speaker 1: other kids. Right you also, UM, if you end up
Speaker 1: in a championship or a playoff or something. What do
Speaker 1: you have to do if you're the team, Well, you
Speaker 1: don't go. Uh, although I guess basketball is an exception
Speaker 1: because they have played in the March Madness tournament. But
Speaker 1: I know that if they if I mean must be
Speaker 1: on the football teams, probably not gonna make I know,
Speaker 1: it's not really a problem if you think about it.
Speaker 1: But if they did, supposedly they would have to skip
Speaker 1: the ball game. Uh. They don't allow grad students to play,
Speaker 1: although that's not the most common thing even at other schools.
Speaker 1: They also switched that this year because of the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: If you were a senior and you didn't get to
Speaker 1: play in but you're gonna be a grad student at
Speaker 1: the same IVY League school, they're letting you play one
Speaker 1: more year, which is like a huge till a first
Speaker 1: year at Harvard law student could play football Yeah and dominate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I dominate on the line and in case law. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then what's the other one. Oh, they don't allow
Speaker 1: red shirts, right, the practice of red shirting a student. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean, you're a pretty serious you have a
Speaker 1: serious sports program. If you're taking people and being like
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna be better as a junior and
Speaker 1: senior or as a freshman. We want to add an
Speaker 1: extra year onto your school. So where this red shirt
Speaker 1: around for the next twelve Monthent do not take it off.
Speaker 1: Real should be disqualified. You're not allowed. So and I
Speaker 1: mean these rules have been in place in SSPECTED for
Speaker 1: decades now, since the since the nineteen forties when they
Speaker 1: first came together. So um, that's not to say though
Speaker 1: that even even though they're not very good at football
Speaker 1: and not necessarily very good at basketball, that there aren't
Speaker 1: like any teams or any individuals that excel at sports
Speaker 1: and win national championships. Like I said, um, Brown and Yale,
Speaker 1: it was the Yale women who um dominate rowing. I
Speaker 1: don't know Brown, Brown and Yaka yeah yeah, um, but
Speaker 1: I think it said earlier Cornell. Right now, I think
Speaker 1: I said earlier Cornell. But it's it's Brown and Yale,
Speaker 1: who are um women who are both good at rowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah you could, if you're a wrestler, you could do
Speaker 1: pretty well at one of the schools. Yeah, you could
Speaker 1: end up on the Gray Fox team or if you're
Speaker 1: on the ski team, if you know, if your university
Speaker 1: has a ski team. Then that says a lot already.
Speaker 1: It really does. First of all, it says you're from
Speaker 1: the Northeast. But also it's is that you probably came
Speaker 1: from a wealthy high school that had a ski team. Yea,
Speaker 1: which is a thing that we'll talk about later on. Well,
Speaker 1: sure that these sports are for people with money generally? Yeah,
Speaker 1: basically that, um, because there's not a really good basketball
Speaker 1: team or football team there. I think their baseball teams
Speaker 1: are so so too. Hockey team to a little bit. That. Um,
Speaker 1: you basically have to come from a wealthy school district
Speaker 1: in high school to excel at sports in these universities. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that kind of sets us up
Speaker 1: for the big question is whether or not these are
Speaker 1: elitist schools. I think they're sort of in a I
Speaker 1: don't know about a pickle. I think they're in a
Speaker 1: constant pickle trying to be elite without appearing elitist. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a tough act, believe me. Yeah, Oh that's funny. Um,
Speaker 1: And they are elite schools, Like if you go to
Speaker 1: an Ivy League school, they say you have a five
Speaker 1: to sixfold advantage relative to random distribution of attainment of
Speaker 1: a top position in business or government. So you're five
Speaker 1: to six times more likely to be a CEO or
Speaker 1: to be that Supreme Court justice, right, especially if you
Speaker 1: go to business or law school. Right, but yeah, anything
Speaker 1: finance or law. I think eight of the nine current
Speaker 1: justices went there, except for Amy Coney Barrett, who went
Speaker 1: to Notre Dame Well the Catholic Ivy Yeah, that's true,
Speaker 1: I guess, um. Yeah, so yeah, if you're on the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, there's an extraordinarily high likelihood you are a
Speaker 1: graduate of not just an undergraduate of um An Ivy League,
Speaker 1: but also a graduate of an Ivy League law school.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just not done to have a Supreme
Speaker 1: Court justice who isn't so. Amy Comy Barrett definitely bucks
Speaker 1: that trend. Um. But presidents tend to be. I think
Speaker 1: thirty four of all presidents in the United States ever
Speaker 1: went to um An Ivy League school, either for undergrad
Speaker 1: or grad. And then five of the last six. Can
Speaker 1: you guess who number six is who did not go?
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Joe Biden went. He went to Delaware and
Speaker 1: he went to Syracuse Law. Yeah, because the previous president
Speaker 1: went to Wharton. Well, he went to Penn and then
Speaker 1: I think he went on as well. And Wharton's the
Speaker 1: business school at you pen, right, and just crushed it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Obama went to Columbia, that's right. Um, George w went
Speaker 1: to Yale because he was a legacy. His father went
Speaker 1: to you and he's a skull and bones guy to it.
Speaker 1: What about Clinton? Where did he go? Clinton went to
Speaker 1: Georgetown and then I believe he went to Yale. Law.
Speaker 1: I was so hoping he was a razorback you think so?
Speaker 1: I think I moved to Arkansas after that. They were like,
Speaker 1: what state can we take over? Um? So, as far
Speaker 1: as the education goes, you know, it's sort of one
Speaker 1: of those things where the education, of course is great.
Speaker 1: No one's gonna knock an IVY League school education with
Speaker 1: a straight face, so don't think we're doing that. But
Speaker 1: there is that weird effect where getting the job because
Speaker 1: you have that on your resume is a thing you
Speaker 1: can't you just can't deny that, right. It's just the
Speaker 1: reputation of the IVY leagues alone, Yes, sustain their reputation.
Speaker 1: Success breeds success exactly. So if you have a degree
Speaker 1: from an IVY League university. The doors are going to
Speaker 1: open for you just because you have a degree from
Speaker 1: an Ivy League university, Like you can stipend for position
Speaker 1: at a Wall Street law firm and be less qualified,
Speaker 1: probably as far as actually doing the work goes, than
Speaker 1: somebody who went to Georgia who's smarter and more capable
Speaker 1: than you. And you're probably going to get the job
Speaker 1: because you went to an Ivy League school, because they
Speaker 1: have the reputation. And the thing is, the Ivy Leagues
Speaker 1: are well away of this. They know that that it
Speaker 1: would be really easy to rest on their laurels and
Speaker 1: just you know, let anybody in as long as your
Speaker 1: parents have the money to donate, like a new wing
Speaker 1: of the library or something. The library I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it always donate a food all yeah, great, um.
Speaker 1: But the I think that they try to balance that
Speaker 1: out as much as possible, at least to some degree,
Speaker 1: because they know that eventually the reputation is going to
Speaker 1: fall because it turns out that all of the Harvard
Speaker 1: people are really actually dummies. The problem is is in
Speaker 1: the meantime, those people who are making their way to
Speaker 1: the top just by virtue of having gone to the
Speaker 1: Ivy leagues aren't necessarily the best in the brightest, and
Speaker 1: since they're aggregating at the top, that means the leadership
Speaker 1: is not necessarily the best in the brightest. And they're
Speaker 1: also recruiting and drafting and opening doors and creating policies
Speaker 1: that benefit people like them rather than necessarily everybody else.
Speaker 1: And then the final factor of this chuck is that
Speaker 1: because those people went to IVY League schools and the
Speaker 1: rest of us are just awed by Ivy League schools.
Speaker 1: The fact that they have Ivy League credentials means that
Speaker 1: their ideas, that those policies they come up with, that
Speaker 1: the that the decisions they make are inherently right because
Speaker 1: their IVY League credentials. So it's a big or borrows
Speaker 1: with like multiple tales going into multiple amounts, but it's
Speaker 1: all one big thing. It's a human centipede, and it's
Speaker 1: like a real right, it's a real um, it's a
Speaker 1: real like balancing act because the the fate of the nation,
Speaker 1: in a large part um not entirely, we'll get to that,
Speaker 1: but in large part rests in the in the hands
Speaker 1: of these these IVY League schools who are producing tomorrow's leaders.
Speaker 1: That's true there was a study that found that top
Speaker 1: executives are not dominated by these elite schools, but they
Speaker 1: are overrepresented. So, like I said, that five to sixfold
Speaker 1: advantage to get that top position in the business if
Speaker 1: you went to an IVY League school, I think they're
Speaker 1: all about on part though with like m I T, Stanford, Caltech, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, there are plenty of non IVY schools that
Speaker 1: also are kind of up there with them as far
Speaker 1: as um, maybe not representation, but at least um breathing
Speaker 1: in the same rarefied air. Yeah, there's a there's a
Speaker 1: stratum called IVY Plus which includes Stanford, Duke, University of Chicago,
Speaker 1: and m I T. As people consider that, and then
Speaker 1: there's also people who are like, well, don't forget Georgetown
Speaker 1: and don't forget you know, um, I think you see
Speaker 1: Berkeley is sometimes yeah, Berkeley probably, So there's in a
Speaker 1: few Northwestern maybe yes, um, if you if you step back,
Speaker 1: they would look at these schools on paper, some of
Speaker 1: these other schools probably blow IVY League schools out of
Speaker 1: the water as far as just like education, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: in specific areas, there are specific like if you want
Speaker 1: to to understand business, go to Warton Business cool. If
Speaker 1: you want to like practice law in any like to
Speaker 1: learn law, Harvard Law, Yale Law, those are really good choices. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you want to learn everything you need to know
Speaker 1: about the food service industry, go to Cornell. Uh. They
Speaker 1: have a huge like restaurant, Hospitality and food science division. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it's as good as it
Speaker 1: gets right. So um, But there's other schools that are like,
Speaker 1: like trying to go to Harvard for engineering rather than
Speaker 1: m I T. Like you'd be a dumb to do that.
Speaker 1: So in that sense, m I T blows Harvard out
Speaker 1: of the water. The thing is, it doesn't matter. It's
Speaker 1: m I T is not Ivy League school. Harvard is
Speaker 1: so Harvard has an extra veneer of prestige that the
Speaker 1: average dumb dumb will just be blown away by right.
Speaker 1: Georgia has a good journalism school, sure, great veterinary program,
Speaker 1: large animal vet Uh. Yeah. And then for guys like us,
Speaker 1: it's also a place where you could go and get
Speaker 1: a decent state school education and have a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cheapest forty ounces in the state. Oh man, Georgie used
Speaker 1: to be really cheap. I think tuition has gone up.
Speaker 1: But back when we were there, like it was like
Speaker 1: six dollars a quarter or something. It was ridiculous. Wow,
Speaker 1: that is that's cheap. I'll bet it's going up. And
Speaker 1: George has got a lot harder to get into as
Speaker 1: well since we were there, Like I don't think the other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I'm gonna start it, George. Uh. These schools too, Like,
Speaker 1: not only do you have to have a lot of
Speaker 1: money to go there, they are incredibly rich and wealthy schools. Um.
Speaker 1: They have endowments totaling for all of them combined a
Speaker 1: hundred and forty billion dollars, with Harvard's endowment alone being
Speaker 1: forty billion. I think the lowest is Brown's Piddley little
Speaker 1: four point two billion and ed conjectures here, But I
Speaker 1: think he's probably kind of right that. You know, when
Speaker 1: you have an endowment, it's not um, it's not just
Speaker 1: a big loaded bank account, but it's it's an investment portfolio.
Speaker 1: Could to make more money on that money. And if
Speaker 1: you leave a ton of money is a Harvard alum
Speaker 1: to their endowment fund and then you end up running
Speaker 1: a business, they might invest in your business or something
Speaker 1: like that. It's possible. I haven't seen anything, but I
Speaker 1: mean it makes sense. Then there's like such a you know,
Speaker 1: one hand washing the other kind of thing. Ivy like
Speaker 1: schools in particular, because they are these conveyor belts for
Speaker 1: a dynas one hand washing the other. Yeah, okay, you
Speaker 1: haven't heard that. I don't think so how else are
Speaker 1: you gonna write your own ticket rights? I've heard of one.
Speaker 1: You know, you scratch my back out, scratch yours. One
Speaker 1: hand washes the other, same thing. But how do you
Speaker 1: wash your hand without just with just one hand? That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Okay, I got you, don't. You don't
Speaker 1: in there right here? Kid it man, that thing's so creepy.
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for blood to start trickling out a
Speaker 1: one of them. That means we're doing a bad job.
Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Yeah, let's take another break.
Speaker 1: We'll come back and talk more about endowments, because it
Speaker 1: is a thing, all right, So much stuff from Josh
Speaker 1: and shock alright, Chuck, So we're talking about endowments. You
Speaker 1: said Harvard's alone is forty billion. They're will endowed just
Speaker 1: right exactly, um hanged, just just from that alone, just
Speaker 1: the fact that they have in their investment portfolio forty
Speaker 1: billion dollars they reaped I think two hundred nineties six
Speaker 1: billion dollars million. Sorry, they made two hundred ninety six
Speaker 1: million dollars in growth off of their forty billion portfolio. UM.
Speaker 1: I think in two thousand seventeen, that's great. It's good return.
Speaker 1: It is a great return, UM. And it was tech free.
Speaker 1: Had it happened in two thousand and sixteen, it would
Speaker 1: have been tax free those universities and times even though
Speaker 1: their private universities, their nonprofit universities, and their endowments were
Speaker 1: non taxed until ironically, the two thousand seventeen tax package
Speaker 1: was passed and there was one point five tax one
Speaker 1: percent tax on university endowments. Yeah, so Harvard made a
Speaker 1: big stink about how they had to cough up fifty
Speaker 1: million dollars in taxes that year. But if you're using
Speaker 1: all two nine million from that year for things like
Speaker 1: you know, building a new library wing, maybe a food hall,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Or if you're a teaching hospital, university hospital, um,
Speaker 1: you might build a new hospital wing or something like that. Supposedly,
Speaker 1: supposedly you're supposed to use a lot of this also
Speaker 1: to basically pay for free rides for UM low income
Speaker 1: students who who otherwise wouldn't be able to make it.
Speaker 1: That's what endowments are meant to be for. But just
Speaker 1: the fact that the these these UM universities has that
Speaker 1: huge adownmants make some targets for for ire and it
Speaker 1: just kind of underscores just how unlike the rest of
Speaker 1: us they are. You know, a hundred hundred forty billion total. Yeah,
Speaker 1: between the eight schools. That that definitely separates them in
Speaker 1: that respect. But the the from that adownmant though, they're
Speaker 1: they're investing in their students education. That's what they're supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing with the overall and there is a
Speaker 1: big difference. If you go to an IVY League school, UM,
Speaker 1: you are probably going to have about nine dollars invested
Speaker 1: in you personally, uh each year over the course of
Speaker 1: your career. If you go to an IVY League school,
Speaker 1: every resource you need, I imagine, yea, the professors are
Speaker 1: well paid, so you're gonna be the best of the best.
Speaker 1: The facilities are in great shape. Exactly, we're out of
Speaker 1: gas again, UM and a second tier school, and I
Speaker 1: use I just made air was choking tests, and so
Speaker 1: can the year. UM. The second tier schools, which is
Speaker 1: basically anything that's not like the top twenties maybe twenty
Speaker 1: five universities, but still really good schools. Phil spend an
Speaker 1: average of about twelve thousand dollars per student compared to
Speaker 1: what right now, So they are putting money into their
Speaker 1: students education, short of the endowment, but still forty billions
Speaker 1: a lot of money. It's a lot of money. As
Speaker 1: far as getting into an IVY League school, it is
Speaker 1: tough obviously. Uh. Their acceptance rates are anywhere from about
Speaker 1: three and a half percent to fifteen percent, depending on
Speaker 1: the year in the school. I think Harvard has the
Speaker 1: lowest rate. UH, Stanford Northwestern and Georgetown or non ivys
Speaker 1: with about the same acceptance rate. So it's not specific
Speaker 1: to IVY schools. UM. But there have been a couple
Speaker 1: of scandals in recent years, notably a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago with Lori Laughlin and who was the other actor, Um,
Speaker 1: the lady from married Yes, Suzanne Summers, Yes, sers, I
Speaker 1: can't remember her name. She was on Desperate Housewives, Felicity. Uh,
Speaker 1: boy Macy skated on that too, didn't he. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he was like good lucky. Yeah, prison, But that was
Speaker 1: the big revelation that parents who had rich parents, who
Speaker 1: had kids that were kind of not qualified to get
Speaker 1: into these schools. Let's say, we're very diplomatic. We're trying
Speaker 1: to make we're trying to get them into school by
Speaker 1: uh getting them in through the sports program. So we
Speaker 1: said that they can't offer scholarships, and that's true, But
Speaker 1: what they can do is a coach can go to
Speaker 1: the administration and say, hey, like, you know, I know,
Speaker 1: you saved us a few slots for admission at least,
Speaker 1: and they won't get a scholarship, but can you can
Speaker 1: you get Lorie Laughlin's daughter in here on a field
Speaker 1: hockey scholarship? And they're like, but she doesn't play field hockey,
Speaker 1: but she never has, Like, well, I know, but they
Speaker 1: made quite a donation to the new science wing or
Speaker 1: the field hockey wing. The coach that x me on
Speaker 1: the hockey. Hey, but this was bribery, and they you
Speaker 1: know she's is she in jail now or is she
Speaker 1: just out? I believe she's out. Her husband, you know
Speaker 1: she's out. Her husband may be out again now. I
Speaker 1: think they reduced a sentence to they threw the book
Speaker 1: at him for six months, and I think they had
Speaker 1: him served like a month or something, right, because they
Speaker 1: kind of fought things. I remember Felicity Huffman really just
Speaker 1: eight Crow apologized to herself at the mercy of the
Speaker 1: court of public opinion and the real court, which was
Speaker 1: definitely the right move. I think she was very ashamed
Speaker 1: and came out and said, so, where's Lori Laughlin's kind
Speaker 1: of like, I'm gonna fight this. It's like, that's not
Speaker 1: the right move. That was a great Lori Lawlin impression,
Speaker 1: by the way, but that was a very big deal.
Speaker 1: Like that kind of rocked the entertainment slash academic world
Speaker 1: for a little while. Yeah, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people didn't realize that IVY leagues have these coaches
Speaker 1: slots where the coach can say, let this kid in.
Speaker 1: I want them on my fencing team. Best fencer I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. You ought to see this guy with a foil, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, the idea that not only were these kids
Speaker 1: not qualified to go to an IVY league school, but
Speaker 1: they also weren't even any good at sports. They were
Speaker 1: just using this backdoor thing that's not good at all.
Speaker 1: What about that other the anti Asian bias scandal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the UM. You know, you talked about Harvard's acceptance
Speaker 1: rate being three point four percent. That was for that's
Speaker 1: low even for Harvard. It's not necessarily Harvard's fault that
Speaker 1: their acceptance rate is so low. They usually have about
Speaker 1: the same number in each class every year and have
Speaker 1: for decades. It's just that more and more people are
Speaker 1: applying to it. Apparently, there's there's academic coaches that UM
Speaker 1: basically just just help you fill out forms and tell
Speaker 1: you how to apply to different colleges, and they their
Speaker 1: their rise has been commensary with the flood of applications
Speaker 1: in the IVY leagues. So more and more people are applying,
Speaker 1: but the which means the acception rate is getting lower
Speaker 1: and lower, even though the class size has been the same.
Speaker 1: The point of that is that these classes are curated
Speaker 1: almost idea leagues. And if you just went on academics
Speaker 1: just a plus four point oh somehow their g p
Speaker 1: A was even above four point or four period. Oh
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, um, they you would have way more Asian
Speaker 1: children in the IVY IVY League schools, but you don't.
Speaker 1: So this this group sued Harvard and said you know,
Speaker 1: you have an anti Asian bias. And Harvard was like,
Speaker 1: it's not an anti astion biased. We more just sculpt
Speaker 1: each class. Not only did they look at a well
Speaker 1: rounded student with a bunch of different different like interest
Speaker 1: in pursuits and community service in addition to their grades.
Speaker 1: They try to look at a class like that to
Speaker 1: the as symbol what does this class look like? And
Speaker 1: you know, for what it's worth, they were I think
Speaker 1: they were sued by an anti affirmative action group and
Speaker 1: they said, um, they won, and then they won the
Speaker 1: appeal Harvard yeah, and yeah, Harvard won. Then they won
Speaker 1: the appeal and I think it's still in the courts
Speaker 1: for I guess another repeal. But um, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think they're it seems like they're trying to do
Speaker 1: that in the name of diversity, which is ironic because
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a minority, if you're Asian, your minority. So, um,
Speaker 1: I could see crying foul against that. But there, you know,
Speaker 1: there are lots of minorities, and I guess they're trying
Speaker 1: to create a diverse class at least that's what they're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they and one of the places where diversity really
Speaker 1: needs to be boosted. Though, is UM on socioeconomic status?
Speaker 1: Apparently there's UM. There's a group called UM Opportunity Insights
Speaker 1: dot org and it's some IVY leaguers who got together
Speaker 1: to kind of study how IVY leaguers serve American society
Speaker 1: and UM. They released these detailed reports every once in
Speaker 1: a while, and the most recent one says that UM,
Speaker 1: the middle middle income kids are being left out, that
Speaker 1: the like the IVY leagues are going for like the
Speaker 1: real like rags to riches success story to boost like
Speaker 1: their image, and as a result, they're also they're leaving
Speaker 1: out some of the middle where if you just took
Speaker 1: kids who were who had scored at least a fourteen
Speaker 1: hundred on the s A t um as as qualification
Speaker 1: and left income out of it middle income kids, would
Speaker 1: I think the representation would go up by like ten
Speaker 1: percent or something crazy like that. UM. But that's not
Speaker 1: the case. You have very very high income kids, like
Speaker 1: for example, if you're student, or if you're student with
Speaker 1: parents in the top one per cent of Amrican economic brackets, UM,
Speaker 1: you're seventy seven times more likely to attend an IVY
Speaker 1: league than a student with a parent and the lowest
Speaker 1: twenty which is crazy because there's only one point two
Speaker 1: million households in the one in the top one percent,
Speaker 1: but there's twenty one million households in the bottom twenty percent.
Speaker 1: But those kids in the top one percent are still
Speaker 1: seventy seven times likelier to go to an Ivy League school.
Speaker 1: That right there is do you just drop the mic?
Speaker 1: Right there? There's you? You just there's no argument like
Speaker 1: they serve the the highest chalons of American society and
Speaker 1: help the next generation stay in the highest echelons of
Speaker 1: American society. If you drop this mic, you're gonna injure that.
Speaker 1: Here another stat here. In seventeen, more than twenty percent
Speaker 1: of Dartmouth students were from the top one percent of
Speaker 1: earning families, and fourteen point four percent came from the
Speaker 1: bottom six of families by income. And at don't have
Speaker 1: the stat but I guarantee you that most of those
Speaker 1: fell between like the fiftieth and sixty percentile. I'd be
Speaker 1: curious to see what like the bottom ten percent looks like,
Speaker 1: but it's it's probably super super low. So um. I
Speaker 1: saw another study from the Opportunity Insights where they were
Speaker 1: saying like, Okay, the key here what you're looking for
Speaker 1: to raise people up out of the lower socioeconomic levels
Speaker 1: to the higher ones through a college education are two.
Speaker 1: There's two factors. One is access. They've got to be
Speaker 1: able to have access to that education. So how how
Speaker 1: many lower income students is this this U university accepting?
Speaker 1: And then mobility, which is how many go from the
Speaker 1: bottom quintile to the highest quintiles in their career in life? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like say ten years on? Yeah, right or yeah, over
Speaker 1: their lifetime there, Well, they found that I vs are
Speaker 1: not They're great at mobility. They can get people out
Speaker 1: of the bottom twenty pent in the top no problem,
Speaker 1: but so can second tier school and second tier schools
Speaker 1: have much greater access. It's much easier to get in,
Speaker 1: and they're also a lot cheaper over there. I think
Speaker 1: Harvard's like fifty grand a year now or something like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but although if you are in that bottom income bracket,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be getting grants out the wazoo, right, but
Speaker 1: it's hard to get in. Access is shut down. The
Speaker 1: mobility is pretty good, but it's also just as good
Speaker 1: as a second tier. Now, if you take away that
Speaker 1: moving people from the bottom twenty to the top. And
Speaker 1: you look at moving people from the bottom twenty percent
Speaker 1: to the top one percent, then Ivy leagues just below
Speaker 1: everybody else out of the water. There's a good chance
Speaker 1: that if you are from the lowest twenty percent of
Speaker 1: earners and do we're talking dollars a year less, there's
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two million households in the US that make that. Um,
Speaker 1: if you come from that quintile and you get into
Speaker 1: an IVY League school, there's a pretty decent chance you're
Speaker 1: going to be in the top one percent of earners
Speaker 1: ten years after you graduate. Yeah, what is this stat
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense here at the end, then Princeton students
Speaker 1: were pell grant eligible, but only one point three percent
Speaker 1: of their students entered poor and became rich later in life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: i'd be right. I don't. Yeah, I think different studies
Speaker 1: turn up different stuff. So that is just from a
Speaker 1: different study. And it also it has to do with
Speaker 1: the measurement. I mean, like maybe this is over lifetime
Speaker 1: earnings or something like that. Right, That's just that was startling. Um,
Speaker 1: there is a good quote here. I think we should
Speaker 1: read that. Uh, and it's it's sort of on the
Speaker 1: idea that just because you got into Harvard Um, your
Speaker 1: problems are solved as far as your connections and socially,
Speaker 1: and I think it has the reputation once you're if
Speaker 1: you're a student there, and if you are from one
Speaker 1: of those lower income families that sort of like Robbie
Speaker 1: coming from Georgia to their law school, they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you're still not really one of us. You got in
Speaker 1: and you're getting these grants. I know you're smart and everything,
Speaker 1: but you're you're not a blue blow like we are.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have a bunch of clubs that are expensive,
Speaker 1: have really expensive dues and secret societies, and we can
Speaker 1: still segregate within this school pretty successfully, and you're not
Speaker 1: gonna have the connections we're gonna have even though you
Speaker 1: went here with us. Uh In this one student from
Speaker 1: UH I think he was Haitian said in the Washington
Speaker 1: Post article, they're constant reminders they have to forge a
Speaker 1: place for myself within the world that has been constructed
Speaker 1: for someone else. So, you know, it's great that they
Speaker 1: are getting some of these kids in the school and
Speaker 1: trying to diversify, but that's only step one into truly integrating.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to Elwood's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get the reference. Now you got anything else? Have
Speaker 1: you not ever seen Illegally Blonde? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: It's all the way through Emily has for sure, and
Speaker 1: Legally Blond two is one of the better sequels ever
Speaker 1: Blonde Ambition, I think so. Yeah, she goes through the
Speaker 1: same exact thing, but this time in d C. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how I knew that. Um, well, you just
Speaker 1: pull it out of thin air. That's right, you got
Speaker 1: anything else? Got nothing else? Okay, everybody, let's ivy leagues.
Speaker 1: And that is also the end of our three D
Speaker 1: recording um career, at least after this listener mail, because
Speaker 1: I said, three D recording career. Hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: I'm over here now, I'm over here. Now I'm done here.
Speaker 1: Do you think that does anything? Probably? Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: made Jerry took all uh and then you gotta finish
Speaker 1: your part. Now, did you already forget listener mail? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I said, that's that's a listener man. How you did,
Speaker 1: I said, And that means it's time for listener mail?
Speaker 1: Because I said, you did say that. Yeah, I miss Mike.
Speaker 1: You all right, Well here I'll do it again. You're ready,
Speaker 1: we should leave this part in. Okay, don't even forget already.
Speaker 1: I Well, then I get I guess I did. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: since Chuck said I guess I did, that means it's
Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. Hey, great set up. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna call this feminism from Emily in Chicago. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: the area episode you mentioned doing at least a short
Speaker 1: stuff on Betty for Dan. I for one, think it's
Speaker 1: a great idea because she's done a lot of important work.
Speaker 1: It doesn't really get talked about. But I wanted to
Speaker 1: bring you, guys, bring up to you guys. If you
Speaker 1: decide to pursue an episode on her, you should know
Speaker 1: that she led a movement that was exclusive to white,
Speaker 1: middle class heterosexual women. The sixties and seventies was a
Speaker 1: time period it was really rich in movements for women
Speaker 1: of UH, for women people of color in the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 1: Yet all these movements, namely Second Way feminism UH in
Speaker 1: the American Indian movement, was guilty of this too. They
Speaker 1: excluded poor women, women of color, and women who identified
Speaker 1: as lgbt Q women in these groups were advocating for
Speaker 1: the same rights as the leaders of these movements, but
Speaker 1: oftentimes her voices were just straight up ignored. Betty for
Speaker 1: Dan was notorious for budding heads with and kicking out
Speaker 1: these types of women, like Rita may Brown, who was
Speaker 1: a great feminist writer. This wave of feminism in the
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies was definitely important and did deliver great
Speaker 1: strides for women, but not all women. I do wanna
Speaker 1: don't want to rain on anyone's breed here in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form, but just shed a bit of light
Speaker 1: on the many years, I'm sorry, many layers of these movements.
Speaker 1: It's important to celebrate the victories for women in minority
Speaker 1: groups during this period, but it's also important not to
Speaker 1: gloss over the mini flaws that were present. You guys
Speaker 1: are great. Your show is an absolute delight. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to listen to future episodes. Please keep up the
Speaker 1: good work, Take care of yourself, stay safe, stay healthy.
Speaker 1: Emily from Chicago, Thanks Emily. It's a great point. Totally
Speaker 1: great point. I've learned over the years and from being
Speaker 1: a history major, that things, even the most celebrated things,
Speaker 1: are rarely just perfect. Yeah. Us. Well, I mean maybe
Speaker 1: an exception of the rule. All right, great, Well, if
Speaker 1: you want to get in touch of this, like Emily
Speaker 1: from Chicago did and say hey, I'm blank from blank
Speaker 1: let us know, you can email to us at stuff
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