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Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: as always, Claude Harmon. This week, Dana dhlquis one of

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Speaker 1: the best instructors in the game. Dana, I think the

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Speaker 1: last time we had you on the podcast was kind

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Speaker 1: of around right after the Masters in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: doing some work with Bryson. Now, you know, you're given

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Speaker 1: as many golf lessons as anybody. I think you're kind

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Speaker 1: of embracing a lot of technology. I like the way

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Speaker 1: you think about the golfing want to get into obviously

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Speaker 1: talking about working with Bryson, which I think is really

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Speaker 1: really interesting. I've had him on the podcast. I mean, listen,

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Speaker 1: I love Bryson. I've known Bryson a long time. He's

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Speaker 1: a really interesting guy, both on and off golf course.

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Speaker 1: But golf is evolving from an instruction standpoint quite quickly,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you look at the four years

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Speaker 1: since we last had you on the podcast, just want

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Speaker 1: to get your thoughts about what you've seen in the

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Speaker 1: last four years, not only from technique theories, but also

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Speaker 1: kind of the way technology is affecting what we do

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Speaker 1: as instructors as well.

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Speaker 2: Sure, well, I think it's kind of refreshing when and yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's been four years. It blew by really quick. The

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Speaker 2: big advent is really the amount of data that's being collected,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the three D space and the force plate space. Look,

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Speaker 2: all the best golfers in the world all move differently.

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Speaker 2: Is that a good thing for the average player? That's

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Speaker 2: how I kind of look at it from a like

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Speaker 2: a scope. You know, the people that we're dealing with

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Speaker 2: this week are all extremely good athletes. They all move differently,

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Speaker 2: they hit different shots. But how do we transcend that

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Speaker 2: information to the regular golfer so they can improve? And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the important piece. The tech is cool,

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Speaker 2: but does it simplify things down so it's palatable. That's

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Speaker 2: the most important part with tech. It's not let's just

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Speaker 2: get a bunch of you know, complicated information and like

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Speaker 2: it used to be. I mean to be fair, like

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Speaker 2: the sample size now and let's say three D is

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Speaker 2: so vast because there's millions and millions of captures of

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Speaker 2: different players. And we also know because of you know,

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Speaker 2: checking ballflight and looking at track mand data or foresight,

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Speaker 2: we kind of know what patterns are presenting themselves. Now

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Speaker 2: I can't really illustrate it on a podcast, But we

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Speaker 2: need to kind of find where the center of the

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Speaker 2: bell curve is. I think that's the important piece. We

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Speaker 2: don't need to look at the outlier. The outlier is cool,

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Speaker 2: but the outlier is really what you see on social media,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I just not that I disdain it.

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Speaker 2: I find it to be neat. But I can't convey

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Speaker 2: that to my fifty year old buddy who needs to

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Speaker 2: take a lesson. I just can't.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people look at what

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Speaker 1: you and I do. You know, we work with four players.

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Speaker 1: We work with elite golfers. But I think people would

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Speaker 1: be surprised. Yeah, we work with competitive golfers, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think one of the luxuries that you have when

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Speaker 1: you're lucky enough to do what we do and work

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Speaker 1: with tour players at the elite level, work with major championships,

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Speaker 1: players that win tournaments. But we still give regular golf

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Speaker 1: lessons to people that are trying to break handicap barriers

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety eighty and stuff. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting something that you touched on their you know,

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Speaker 1: social media. I always say to golfers, nobody unfortunately, is

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Speaker 1: making YouTube videos and social media posts on grip stance, posture,

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Speaker 1: and alignment. But how much on a regular basis with

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Speaker 1: the tour players that we work with is sometimes, hey,

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Speaker 1: the ball went offline. Dude, you're just aimed a little

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Speaker 1: bit too far left, or shoulders are a little bit open,

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Speaker 1: moved the golf ball a little bit more forward and stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that I see

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Speaker 1: is because there is so much information out there and

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Speaker 1: it is so readily available, I've never seen more regular

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Speaker 1: handicap golfers going down the YouTube social media spiral. I

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Speaker 1: had a member at my club who's in his mid

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Speaker 1: to late seventies. He has you know, he's got two

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Speaker 1: knee replacements. He has no speed, he has no power.

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Speaker 1: His body is really compromised. And he's talking to me

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Speaker 1: about ground force reactions and I'm like, listen, we just

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Speaker 1: need to try and get the golf ball in the

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Speaker 1: air and hit the golf ball solid. Every time. Social

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Speaker 1: media and the amount of information that is out there, now,

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Speaker 1: how is that helping golfers and how is it detracting

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Speaker 1: from golfers improving?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I'll say it like this, that

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Speaker 2: it's not systematic, right, so it's it's a it's a

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Speaker 2: clickbait scenario, right, I just I think our whole I

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Speaker 2: mean not to get philosophical here, but like it is

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Speaker 2: very clickbaity, and that's fine. I think the benefit to that,

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Speaker 2: and I completely think it's important. It's a good way

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Speaker 2: for people to see how the information is being displayed

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Speaker 2: all some more importantly, how somebody communicates. You mentioned something

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Speaker 2: earlier about you know, the AI prospect maybe taking over industries. Well, sure,

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Speaker 2: but you know there is an importance for human beings

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Speaker 2: to have a human connection, to have communication, coaching, coaching. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we'll see where that heads. I mean obviously, like

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Speaker 2: you don't want to take stock advice for me, but

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Speaker 2: like I think from a golf swing perspective, that's how

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Speaker 2: I see it. But as far as to kind of

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Speaker 2: answer your question on it, like a deeper level, I

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Speaker 2: think the average person needs to look for something that's

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Speaker 2: you know, like repetitive, simple, and that makes sense. That

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Speaker 2: kind of like creates confidence in hitting a golf shot.

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Speaker 2: And when you step on the first tea, Like like

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Speaker 2: if I talk to a tour player, that's what they're

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Speaker 2: looking for. They're like, I have to commit to hitting

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Speaker 2: a golf shot under competition, intercompetition on the course when

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Speaker 2: it matters correct. Yeah. So if if they're thinking about

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Speaker 2: their right wrist, trail, elbow, the right hip, I guarantee

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Speaker 2: you their probably not going to hit the shot that one.

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Speaker 1: They're playing golf swing and not playing golf.

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Speaker 2: So that's the dichotomy of like social media versus And

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Speaker 2: there's plenty of others, but that's a big detractor from

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Speaker 2: how I should kind of maybe change my algorithm on

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Speaker 2: my golf swing Instagram feed. But I think it's I

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Speaker 2: think it's interesting like socially because there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of like captivating imagery. You know, you see people with

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Speaker 2: a shot tracer, you see like Bryson's a good example,

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Speaker 2: like he's communicating with the average Joe and then he's.

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Speaker 1: Talking an believable job with his social media candles. I

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Speaker 1: think Bryson is at the forefront of you know, we

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Speaker 1: hear a lot now of growing the game. I think

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Speaker 1: Bryson is at the forefront of trying to make golf

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Speaker 1: more accessible, make golf more fun, and bringing more eyeballs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah to golf. Yeah, and he has fun with it,

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Speaker 2: Like I think it comes across too yeah. I got

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Speaker 2: to watch him play a break course record video and

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Speaker 2: it was really neat to watch and it was completely authentic.

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Speaker 2: I think he missed by like one. I think HOGI

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Speaker 2: is the one that had the course record. He's never

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Speaker 2: seen the golf course. The conditions weren't good and Geebo

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Speaker 2: is there and get to watch the back and forth

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Speaker 2: on okay, like, I don't know what this win's doing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the surface area is on the

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Speaker 2: front edge of the green, but we're just gonna send it.

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Speaker 2: And we got up there. It was muddy stuff you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't find in a tournament, right, like, oh, it's just

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Speaker 2: terrible conditions. But it was very relatable to the average

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Speaker 2: golfer when they go out and say, oh, look, Bryson

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Speaker 2: is very good at hitting one shot one way very

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Speaker 2: very effectively, and then having the artistry around the green

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Speaker 2: to hitting one shot one way very very effectively, and

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Speaker 2: then having the artistry around the green to hit all

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Speaker 2: of those short game shots and whatnot. It's good to watch.

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Speaker 1: I also think that you know, the social media rabbit hole,

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Speaker 1: the YouTube rabbit hole, I think it's incumbent and p

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Speaker 1: on everyone listening. You have to find stuff that is

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Speaker 1: applicable to your game, right. I always used to say

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Speaker 1: when my dad said this once, you know, back in

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Speaker 1: the day when everybody was reading magazines, Golf Digest, he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, you read an article on Golf Digest. He said,

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Speaker 1: It's like going to see a doctor. You come in

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Speaker 1: and you've got a cast on your arm, and the

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Speaker 1: doctor says, how'd you break your arm? And the guy says,

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Speaker 1: I didn't break my arm, but I read that if

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Speaker 1: you have a broken arm, you put a cast on

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Speaker 1: your arm. Sure, And he's like, but your arm isn't broken. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you've got a cast on your arm. So I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that I hear a lot

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Speaker 1: of my regular students, your non tour players, competitive golfers,

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Speaker 1: is they're talking about concepts and things. You know. I

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Speaker 1: think we've gone through kind of fads and phases, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, for the last five years, everybody's trying to

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Speaker 1: show it out, shollow it out, lay it down, lay

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Speaker 1: it down, lay it down, all that stuff, right, And

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Speaker 1: I've got more players coming to me saying, listen, you know,

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Speaker 1: I really you know, my stock shot is I want

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Speaker 1: to hit a fade. I'm like, well, shallowing on out

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Speaker 1: and trying to get the golf club and center a

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Speaker 1: mass and all this stuff behind you that's not really

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Speaker 1: conducive to you can do it. Sure, it takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of eye hand coordination. It takes a lot of timing,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then now I think everything I see

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Speaker 1: on social media is ground force reaction, you know, vertical

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Speaker 1: force and all of that stuff. What's a good kind

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Speaker 1: of hack for everyone listening to decipher the information that

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Speaker 1: you can take to your game to help you play

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Speaker 1: better on the golf course. Because I don't think Dana

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Speaker 1: people realize, Yeah, we work a lot with tour players

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Speaker 1: on technique, but we're working way more on execut.

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Speaker 2: You shouldn't then we are on technique. Yeah, yeah, one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent like the shot that matters. So that's an

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Speaker 2: interesting kind of thing to think about because when you

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Speaker 2: let's just bring up three D for that example, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to piggyback this into the ground force conversation,

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Speaker 2: Amateur players need to minimize the magnitude of ground force

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Speaker 2: that they produce. That's number one. How do we do that?

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Speaker 1: Explain that a little bit better? Yeah, people that aren't

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Speaker 1: in the world.

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Speaker 2: That works, Yeah, so like Kyle Berkshire is creating a

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Speaker 2: large the world long drive. Yeah, so they're creating a

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Speaker 2: lot of force through the ground and they.

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Speaker 1: Move their feet to the way they kind of, yeah,

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Speaker 1: transfer their weight.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's a lot of vertical going on, and there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of horizontal. Now, you if you have a

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Speaker 2: lot of horizon, a lot of vertical, you have to

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Speaker 2: have the athleticism to control that. Now, in order to

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Speaker 2: do that, you have to train that. You have to

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Speaker 2: train the athlete piece.

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Speaker 1: Do me favor, dumb that down? Yeah, the vertical force and.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so vertical and well, let me take a step back.

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Speaker 2: It's really important that you match whatever you're doing on

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Speaker 2: the ground to your three D So your positions or

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Speaker 2: if you want to think of it that way, or

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Speaker 2: like on sports box that I use, your verticals would

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Speaker 2: be your lifts or your sways. And the reason why

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Speaker 2: is that's going to create a form of rotation. Whether

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Speaker 2: you're going to rotate around or you're going to rotate

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Speaker 2: side to side this way like tilting. Those things are

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Speaker 2: influenced by the body producing force into the ground. The

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Speaker 2: average player has a contact issue. That's so we have

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Speaker 2: to get good at minimizing those things. And now if

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Speaker 2: I have a whole bunch of horizontal right to left,

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Speaker 2: it's going to change where I'm hitting on the ground.

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Speaker 2: And if I go up and down, it's going to

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Speaker 2: do the same. I might cast it, I might you know,

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Speaker 2: pull down on or whatever it is. So you know,

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Speaker 2: amateur golfers need really to simplify it down and go, okay,

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Speaker 2: how does my body move in space in order to

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Speaker 2: stay somewhat center? Keep my head still? Okay, just keep

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Speaker 2: it real simple, and then make a contact with golf ball.

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Speaker 2: I mean that at the end of the day, that's

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Speaker 2: what it is. Now, when it gets to the ball flight,

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Speaker 2: you can, you know, choose to cut it, choose to

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Speaker 2: fade it, and there are principles to that, like if

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Speaker 2: you're too far forward with your head and your hips

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Speaker 2: are too far right at the top, I mean, you're

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Speaker 2: probably going to swing the left, like those little things.

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Speaker 2: But that's kind of where we are right now. As

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Speaker 2: far as the instruction industry, I find it to be

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Speaker 2: my responsibility outside of you know, tour players and regular lessons,

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Speaker 2: is to teach the younger generation not to do the

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Speaker 2: things that I did as mistakes because I've done plenty,

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Speaker 2: but to also kind of fast track them into you know,

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Speaker 2: get them out of the pro shop getting a lesson

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Speaker 2: so they can help their members or the people on

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Speaker 2: their drive range. That makes them stay in the industry

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Speaker 2: and having more relevant information or easier palatable information that

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Speaker 2: they can you know, I don't want to be too

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Speaker 2: complicated where it's like, oh, well, here's the face to path,

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Speaker 2: this is angle of attack. You know, here's your vertical

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Speaker 2: swing plane. I mean, you get into that, you kind

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Speaker 2: of lose it. So it goes back to the thing

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Speaker 2: of like, you know, why do you need to set

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Speaker 2: up with a face here and your feet here, Like,

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Speaker 2: because you're trying to control a face to path, But

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Speaker 2: if you're moving to side to side a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: or up and down a whole bunch, you're changing that aspect.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's where we need to kind of start.

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Speaker 2: And I mean that should be like the golden social

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Speaker 2: media posts right there, to be fair, but it gets

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Speaker 2: lost in the communication of things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we're also in an age. I

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Speaker 1: say this to my instructors that work on my team.

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Speaker 1: I say this in the seminars I give. It's something

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Speaker 1: that I'm really I think is really important. I think

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Speaker 1: we're really close to creating and there has been a

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Speaker 1: number of generations now with the advent of technology. The

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Speaker 1: technology is creating data collectors that don't know how to

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Speaker 1: do anything with the data. They can buy a launch monitor,

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Speaker 1: they can buy force plates, they can buy three D,

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Speaker 1: they can buy all of the tech. Yeah, well, then

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Speaker 1: what do you do with it. I remember a number

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Speaker 1: of years ago I was at Wimbledon and was at

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Speaker 1: a lunch and I was sitting next to Christian Horner.

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Speaker 1: This is long before Drive to Survive and all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff, But I was big into F one because

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Speaker 1: I lived in Europe and always been fascinated by the

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Speaker 1: team culture, the team principles, the engineer, the driver. And

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Speaker 1: he was asking me about golf. He said, you know,

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Speaker 1: what type of data do you guys use it? And

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, I think golf was just kind

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Speaker 1: of getting into This is probably seven eight years ago.

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Speaker 1: Golf was just kind of getting into the data age.

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Speaker 1: We were getting more launch monitors, were becoming your more prevalent.

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Speaker 1: Three D was becoming more prevalent. And I said to him,

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Speaker 1: as a golf is moving into the data age, and

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Speaker 1: he said, that's the world that we live in. An

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Speaker 1: F one and I said, you know, I remember this

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Speaker 1: was when Sebastian Bettle was driving for Red Bull. He

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Speaker 1: was leading a race three four laps to go. The

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Speaker 1: gap between the guy trying to overtake was pretty close,

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Speaker 1: and his race engineer came on to try and give

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Speaker 1: him some information and Sebastian screamed down the radio, shut

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Speaker 1: up and let me drive the car. Christian said, he

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Speaker 1: told me the lap the race, the guy that told him,

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Speaker 1: And he said, I had to go back in to

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Speaker 1: everybody on the non driver side and say, listen, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the information you're trying to give this driver, you're

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Speaker 1: trying to make him go faster, you're trying to improve

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Speaker 1: his performance in the team's performance. But there's times when

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Speaker 1: you need to have that information. Sometimes the information can

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Speaker 1: be too much. So I look at all the coaches

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Speaker 1: that were lucky enough to be around people like yourself

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Speaker 1: and all the people the fraternity of tour coaches. We're

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Speaker 1: the luckiest people in golf instruction because we get to

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Speaker 1: bounce ideas off each other, we get to ask about players.

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Speaker 1: We don't all agree on how we work with players.

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Speaker 1: Your analytical thinking and the way your brain thinks is

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Speaker 1: vastly different than mine. Right, I just my brain doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a numbers guy. I'm not a math and

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Speaker 1: science guy. Right. I look at some numbers on track man,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, it still doesn't make that three D

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Speaker 1: graphs when I look at I know enough to be dangerous.

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Speaker 1: But I got to TPI and spend time with Greg

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Speaker 1: Rose and Dave Phillips. You know, they're the masters and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, the biomechanist, Sacho and all of those guys.

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Speaker 1: I think there's room for everybody, but for someone like you.

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Speaker 1: How much information is enough? How much information is too much?

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Speaker 1: Because I see a lot of young instructors just over

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Speaker 1: the student with information. I remember when I was first

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Speaker 1: starting out. You know, my dad watched me give a

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Speaker 1: lesson one time, and he said, listen, the student doesn't

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Speaker 1: care how smart you are. The Only thing the student

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Speaker 1: cares about is fixing a slice and hitting it more solid.

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Speaker 1: They don't care about all your fancy words. My dad

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Speaker 1: is kind of the archetype. I think, the poster child

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Speaker 1: for keep it simple. I think, if you're just trying

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Speaker 1: to keep things simple and you're not using modern technology,

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Speaker 1: you're missing something. But I also think if you're only

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Speaker 1: using tech and you don't know how to make an omelet,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to be a three Michelin star chef all

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Speaker 1: the time and you can't make someone a cheeseburger or

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Speaker 1: an omelet. I think it's a dangerous place to be

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Speaker 1: in both. So for you as someone that I look

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Speaker 1: at and I marvel at your ability to take in

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Speaker 1: these big concepts and all of this data, my brain

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Speaker 1: just doesn't work like that. But the balance, Dana know

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Speaker 1: how much is too much? And what does the student

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Speaker 1: need to know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so every and I'm going to relate this to

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Speaker 2: regular lessons at home, not to you know, the tour,

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Speaker 2: because it is a little different. The average player will

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Speaker 2: generally let's say something's going on the swing on the

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Speaker 2: down swing, that means something is happening earlier than that.

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Speaker 2: So we find that it could be simple, could be complex,

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Speaker 2: it could be any of those things. We directly attack that.

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Speaker 2: Now it could be set up so good examples. Let's

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Speaker 2: say college players they show up and let's say their

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Speaker 2: upper body moves too far to the right. Why are

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Speaker 2: they wanting to do that? There's a reason. So we

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, with the tech, I can actually

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Speaker 2: create goals for them, maybe give them two, maybe give

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Speaker 2: them three that are all interrelated. They just sit there

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Speaker 2: and hit and keep those numbers those three versus green

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Speaker 2: or wherever I settle. Nothing more complicated than that. Why

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Speaker 2: I think that's effective is that in the long run,

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Speaker 2: they start seeing the pattern of how their body knows.

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Speaker 2: We all have patterns, how we walk, how we talk,

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Speaker 2: DNA signatures, Yeah, so you start seeing these things. I

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Speaker 2: just had a girl semi videos the other day that

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Speaker 2: plays in college, and she was left bending too much,

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Speaker 2: which means her left shoulders going down, her right shoulders

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Speaker 2: going up way too early, and then on the downswing

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Speaker 2: it was right bending action. And she's like, well, I

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Speaker 2: don't understand why the club like dumps under well in

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Speaker 2: the past used to do that. But then she would

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Speaker 2: rotate and her arms would come out and she'd pull

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Speaker 2: it or cut it, overcut it, and I'm like, look,

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Speaker 2: you know when you do that, you know, especially as

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Speaker 2: a female, like you're fighting hitting down on the ball

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Speaker 2: too much, You're you're gonna lose speed and you're loose distance.

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Speaker 2: So we neutralized it so I e. It looks six

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Speaker 2: months down the road, those patterns are still there, but

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Speaker 2: now she recognizes it. So now it's not a phone

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Speaker 2: call to me in desperate need. But she was like confirmation.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, yeah, look what I've been doing. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can see it now and then done. I think

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Speaker 2: that's the level of complication that no more than that

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Speaker 2: for the average player. Like, if the average player is

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Speaker 2: adding more than that, you're not going to.

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Speaker 1: Hit a golf balls, to be fair, you're playing, You're

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Speaker 1: playing golf swing. You're in technique mode. It's something that

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Speaker 1: I've really tried to talk about, you know, the last

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Speaker 1: three or four months on the podcast. You know, the

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Speaker 1: goal of all of this golf is not figure skating,

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Speaker 1: It's not gymnastics. If it was Nellie Corda, Tommy Fleetwood,

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Speaker 1: Adam Scott, Jay Knap, who you've don't work with the

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Speaker 1: aesthetic looking golf swings. I get asked all the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, who's golf swing? Do you really like? I

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Speaker 1: always answer it one or two ways, aesthetically or result base. Yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: I was giving lessons to a kid in Dubai recently.

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Speaker 1: Really a good player, one of the best players in

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Speaker 1: the UAE, and I asked them, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: could have Scotti Scheffler's golf swinger Tommy Fleetwoods golf thing.

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Speaker 1: This was last year November, which one would you take it? Like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Tommy Fleetwood's all day, And I'm like, Scotti Scheffler's the

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Speaker 1: number one ranked player in the world is on a run.

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Speaker 1: We've never seen anyone have. Like Aesthetically, Yeah, Tommy's golf

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Speaker 1: swings a joke. Unbelievable, how good it is, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So if this was figure skating gymnastics, Tommy Fleetwood's win

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Speaker 1: in a lot because he hits a five iron and

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Speaker 1: the judges would go nine to eight, nine nine. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it looks unbelievable, no one. He's trying to swing the

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Speaker 1: golf club like Scotti Scheffler. My uncle Billy said this

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Speaker 1: years ago. I think I've told this story before, but

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Speaker 1: Tiger and David Duvall were one two in the world.

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Speaker 1: They were hanging out together when David Duvall lost all

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Speaker 1: the weight. We're in Vegas, They're both hitting balls together.

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Speaker 1: It was unbelievably cool, you know, because very different golf swing, right,

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Speaker 1: And my uncle Billy's watching Tiger hit golf balls, and

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Speaker 1: he's watching David Duvall hit golf falls and he goes,

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Speaker 1: you know, the crazy thing is, there's nobody in the

403
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Speaker 1: world trying to swing the golf club the way David

404
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Speaker 1: Duvall swings it. And you know, he always used to say,

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Speaker 1: you look at two of the greatest ball strikers in

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Speaker 1: his opinion, Hail Irwin close stance, took it inside, came

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Speaker 1: over it, hit Fades Lee Trevino wide open, took it out,

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Speaker 1: dropped it, and he's like, no one is trying to

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Speaker 1: swing like two of the greatest ball strikers. Well, he's like,

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Speaker 1: everybody's trying to swing like Tiger Woods and Adam Scott.

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Speaker 2: Sure, you know.

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Speaker 1: So the balance for the listeners between function and aesthetics.

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Speaker 1: As an instructor, how do you go about that?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm the probably one of the more guilty guys

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Speaker 2: on the aesthetics, so I mean historically to be fair,

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Speaker 2: but that's why I asked it, because I know that

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Speaker 2: you have a very specific idea about the way the

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Speaker 2: golf swing should look. Yeah, it's it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: there's a there's a line in the sand that I draw.

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Speaker 2: Now I have to understand, Like the difference between now

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Speaker 2: and ten years ago is I'm wearing a lab coat now,

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Speaker 2: so I have some like authority to who's in front

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Speaker 2: of me, whereas before I probably didn't, you know, And

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Speaker 2: it just makes students listen better, I guess you'd say,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I would say that. The line in the

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Speaker 2: sand is like, are you a successful tour player that

427
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 2: is in a little slump. I'm not rebuilding your golf swing.

428
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Like it's just not happening because you were

429
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: successful at a high level. Now, if you were a

430
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: college golfer and you just got the yips and you're

431
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 2: hitting it everywhere, it's worth a discussion. You know, we

432
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: have to start somewhere. And because of my background, that's

433
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: just how I kind of see things. But we'll see

434
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: where this goes. Like I'm a very open person and

435
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: like I'll change on a whim if if the data

436
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: says that, hey, you know what, like ninety nine percent

437
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: of people are better off doing this than they were

438
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: doing that, I'll do it. Like I want people to

439
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 2: be better. I don't want my ego to get in

440
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 2: the way. And I think that's why we're successful. There's

441
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: something you said there about like different thinkers, which I

442
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: thought was good. It's good to have diversity of thought,

443
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: especially in the instruction industry. I think, yes, we communicate

444
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: different Look at like Scott Hamilton. You know, he's been

445
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: out there forever since I can remember, yep, and worked

446
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: with a ton of guys and has good relationships with

447
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: everybody he's worked with. I think that's the important piece.

448
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: And we're all friends. I mean, I'm friendly, I think

449
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: with everybody. But I think that's what kind of pushes

450
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: the needle forward and people look to us. I don't

451
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: want to sound arrogant here, but to confirm or deny

452
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: whether that information is relevant, right, And I think that's important.

453
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: You know, I gave a seminar to I was in

454
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: Thailand about a month ago, and I gave a seminar

455
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: to Taipga RD, a bunch of Thai PGA instructors coming in,

456
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: and I started off the presentation by saying, listen, I'm

457
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: going to tell you what I do why I do it.

458
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: But I said, the main reason why I do what

459
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: I do is because I've had success doing it over

460
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: a twenty five year career. And I'm not saying it's right.

461
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this is the way that I approach

462
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: working with players, and I do that based off of

463
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: the data points of success that I can point two, right,

464
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: you know, And I always say that, you know, specifically

465
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: now from a social media standpoint, Dan, I see so

466
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: many people in the instruction space doing everything they can

467
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: do to chop off other people's legs to make themselves

468
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: look taller, right, And I always say to players, listen,

469
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: if you're going to be hyper hyper critical of other instructors,

470
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: your players better be really damn good. Sure, they need

471
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: to be really really good.

472
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of the once again, it's kind of

473
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: the way the world is now, Like people want to

474
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: have relevance, you know, they're they're they're searching for a tribe.

475
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: They're trying to create a tribe. And when you're behind

476
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: a keyboard, it's it's it's a lonely place. So when

477
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: you start getting like, I don't read comments on my

478
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: I try not to ever, I'm like, well, it's just

479
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: it's dangerous because and I said this to some of

480
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: the other day, it's like, well, how did you do

481
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: that to make that that golfer do that in their swing,

482
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, I really kind of want to

483
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: pump the brakes because if I do that then people

484
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: are gonna jump in the comments. So you can't do

485
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: it that way. I just don't think that's healthy. It's

486
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: not a healthy thing.

487
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: It's funny. I will sometimes post videos of Yeah, when

488
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: I worked with Brooks, I post a video of them

489
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: and or or DJ. I post a video of them,

490
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: and people would the comments would be and then they

491
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: would take the video and put it on their page

492
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: and they I remembers a video of Brooks once when

493
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: I was working with both Brooks and DJ, and you know,

494
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: I put some video as side by something like oh yeah,

495
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: they're you look at how they shallow shallow it out

496
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: and really kind of lay that down. I'm like, we're

497
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: trying to do the one hundred and eighty degree opposite

498
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: of what you're using. This player's golf swing is to

499
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: kind of illuminate your points. The negativity around instruction I

500
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: think is at an all time high.

501
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: It is I think as a society that I mean, I.

502
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: Have a Twitter account, I've taken x Twitter, I've taken

503
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: it off my phone because all I just see is

504
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of people just arguing Justin Parsons. Sup posted

505
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: a video of Blades Brown the other day, and an

506
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: instructor who's been successful in the past and you know,

507
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: has worked with a lot of good players, you know,

508
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: just shit all over him. And I'm like, just In

509
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: Parsons one of the best golf instructors in the world

510
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: right now, he's working with major champions, just had got

511
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: on the Ryder Cup team, And in an effort to

512
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: try and be relevant, you're trying to make a point

513
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: about something that first of all, you don't know anything about, Yeah,

514
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: because you're not working with that player. Yeah right. I

515
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: always say that the only people that know what is

516
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: going on with golfer. Yeah, I'm talking in a golf

517
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: lesson with a fifteen to twenty five handicap, a college

518
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: player or a tour player. The only people that know

519
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: what's going on and what they're trying to work on

520
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: are the people in the room.

521
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah right.

522
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: The phrase that they use at the NFL. Hey, the

523
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: only people that know what's going on in our building

524
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: are the people in our building. Right. I don't think

525
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: it's helping, Yeah, golf instructor, I don't think it's helping

526
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: golfers get better.

527
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: No, No, And isn't that.

528
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: The goal of what we're all trying to do is

529
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: to help our golfers.

530
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, improve, I agree with that one hundred percent. I

531
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: think number one, I'm I guess you could say I'm

532
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: conservative in this viewpoint of lead by example. Yeah, at

533
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I can't control is outside

534
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 2: my control. I think that's it's like the biggest thing.

535
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: It's disappointing. The argument is that the debates moved the

536
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: industry forward, but it really doesn't. I've heard that before.

537
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: They're debating over you know, open form.

538
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: The Open that's a good example for him, is a

539
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: great example. People always say to me, did you go

540
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: to the Open four? I'm like, I went to that

541
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: thing once and it was just a yardstick competition to

542
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: see who could yell the loudest. I look at golf instruction,

543
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, at the tour level, and I always say

544
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: this to people when players are struggling, you never hear

545
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: another player throw another player under the bus, like you know,

546
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who the player is. But if that player

547
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: is struggling and they say, hey, you know that, are

548
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 1: you surprised about player? You never hear the player go, well,

549
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: that's because he's working all rustle. I remember a couple

550
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: of years ago when Jordan speak was struggling, Yeah, and

551
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, Cam was just getting absolutely crushed. I didn't

552
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: see any of us on the driving range, not walk

553
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: by Cam put their arm around them and go hey, man, yeah,

554
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: keep biting, keep grinding, you're gonna put People that are

555
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: outside that world are just like, oh yeah, you know.

556
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't know what these guys are working

557
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: all yeah, right, nobody knows what players are working. They

558
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: think they do.

559
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a there's no empathy, which is very disappointing

560
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: but not surprising. Yeah, I'm not surprised, And look like

561
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I think I look at it as a learning experience.

562
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: Like I think when I see that destructive behavior, which

563
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: it is, I think it's destructive behavior. Doesn't mean I

564
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: can control it. You know, I actually feel for both

565
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: sides when that's happening, because that's a character you know,

566
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: situation and that you know, talk it out kumba yah.

567
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, like it doesn't move your students in a

568
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: good spot either, like put your energy into your students,

569
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: I mean, don't do it as a keyboard Warrior.

570
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I want to talk about Bryson because

571
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: I think that it's a fascinating the fact that anybody

572
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: could work with Bryson DeChambeau is to me, is just

573
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: incredibly fascinating.

574
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: But Dana, give me some golf swings that you really

575
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: like that you look at and say, man, I think

576
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: this person swings the golf club well from an esthetic standpoint,

577
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: but also from a functionality. Stamper, give me five golf

578
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: swings that you look at and go, I really like

579
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: the way that. Give me some people that you haven't

580
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: worked with, okay, because I would love to kind of

581
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: get an insight to what you look at when you

582
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: look at a player and i've worked with him to say, man,

583
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: I really like the way they do this.

584
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna throw out the cliche because you and

585
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: I would agree, like an Adam Scott's like just a

586
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: different animal. Yeah. So you know, Blake Blades is a

587
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: good one. Eine Blades like a lot of power, you know,

588
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: the new generational move if you want to call it that,

589
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: that would be one. Gosh, what's another one that that

590
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: I think? I look at things that stand the test

591
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: of time too now more than ever, Like how consistent

592
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: somebody's been. I think you look at even like on

593
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: the Crushers team, you'll get somebody like Charles and you

594
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: look at something like Paul Casey. Both move it different

595
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: case Paul Flusher for forever twenty five years yea. And

596
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: he looks really good right now, Like I just was

597
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: with him yesterday walking, you know, on the course with

598
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: Bryson and him, and I mean, he looks really good

599
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: in his dress, really good in his pre shot, and

600
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: it looks like he's hitting the shots that you want

601
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: to hit, like when you have those combos. Great. One

602
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: of my all time favorites obviously is fred like fred Stripes.

603
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I still you know, I was very lucky

604
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: because my dad worked with Freddy Couples. Michael Dickie worked

605
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: with Freddy Couples. He used to give me the Ashworth

606
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: shirts he had right with the walking man, the big

607
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: logo on the sleeve and stuff. I used to wear

608
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: that that stuff in high school. I mean, you know

609
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: Jake Knapp, who you've worked with, there are a lot

610
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: of comparisons with Jake and Freddy in the way that

611
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: they swing the golf club in the way that they

612
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: move the golf club. For everyone listening, what are some

613
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: things that you could take from looking at Fred Couple's

614
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: golf swing and you could say, listen, that could help me. Yeah.

615
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: I think there's no over acceleration. I think that's one

616
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: thing great. I'm stealing that they know how to load

617
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: and unload the golf club. When you say over acceleration

618
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: to you, what does that mean? Yeah, So like they

619
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: both have a strong grip. It goes back, you know,

620
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: historically longer for Fred in the past, but Jake's longer.

621
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: And then as he comes down it's it's like slowing

622
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: the hands down, speeding the head up, lines it up

623
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: and smashes it and you know, he could be if

624
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: he wanted to. He doesn't try to do this. I mean,

625
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: he's not going to play a two hunter ball speed,

626
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: but I've seen it plenty of times, and so he

627
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 2: plays it like one to eighty five and just lines

628
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 2: it up and ships it down the fairway. So I

629
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: think for people to look at that, like, how does

630
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: a guy do that? Well, pretty simple, it's a big turn,

631
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: relaxed arms, doesn't try to overpower anything, and most importantly,

632
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: he kind of does the same thing every time. Like

633
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: he doesn't try to reinvent much. He likes to see

634
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: the ball do one thing and no different than anybody

635
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: else out here.

636
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: You know.

637
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: You look at Terrel Hatton, I mean Terrell.

638
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: He's Terrell Hatton's the poster child for early extension. Yeah. Yeah,

639
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: for a stripe stripe show. Yeah, you know. And I

640
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: was out recently, DJ went out to TPI and I

641
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: was we were talking, right, I was at lunch with

642
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: Gregen Dave and just trying to pick their brain and

643
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And we were talking about, you know,

644
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: trends and stuff like that. And you know, because I

645
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: think early extension trying to keep you know, the pelvis

646
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: back and stuff, you know, is something that I think

647
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: is part of the vernacular now it's part of the

648
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: mainstream and stuff. And you know, because Dave works with

649
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: John Rahm, he spends a lot of time and practice

650
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: shrums with Tyrol Hatton. And I asked Dave the same question.

651
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: I asked you it is golfsping do you really like?

652
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: And he said, you know what, I never would have

653
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: thought Dave would say, yeah, you know, Terrell Hatton and

654
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: he said, and I love Arrol Hatton's golf swing, and

655
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: he said he's the poster child for early extension, but

656
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: he matches it up. He does the same thing every time.

657
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: Can you, in your opinion, can you have swing faults

658
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: and survive and make them work?

659
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: It depends on what you say, like as a fault.

660
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not trying to throw like Web Simpson.

661
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Web under the bus here, but you know,

662
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: like he's a good example of like gets narrow historically

663
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: lines it up. It's really easy to take that. Or

664
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: maybe like Andrew Putnam, there's another one, like Putnam stripes

665
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: his irons, you know. And I had a conversation actually

666
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: with Mike about this. Mike, Michael Putnam. He knows what

667
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: the ball is going to do off the tee, so

668
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: he hits his irons good. He knows he's going to

669
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: hit a low pinch cut out there. He's gonna hit

670
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: it two ninety, he's not gonna hit it three twenty.

671
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: And he, you know, is relevant on the PGA twenty

672
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: does what he does. Yeah, And I think we need

673
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: to learn that that's okay. You know, now if you're

674
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: an up and coming seventeen year old kid, that you

675
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: know play at other sports and you need to. There's

676
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: potential there, sure, like go down that road and see

677
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: if it works. But you know, Putnam's very very good,

678
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 2: you know, hits his irons better than most guys I've seen.

679
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: I look at Saeith, right, Pagala another one. So yeah,

680
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: I think it's it's interesting like those individuals are part

681
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: of the sample size, They're just not in the middle

682
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: of that standard deviation. They're doing other things. But once again,

683
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: like what is the standard deviation? It's like, try to

684
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: stay pretty centered and maximize your rotation and deliver maybe

685
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: from the inside if you're an amateur and have fun,

686
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: you know.

687
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: Really good stuff. Bryson. I mean, we could do an

688
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: entire podcast on working with Bryson. First of all, what's

689
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: it like as an instructor working with Bryson? What's he

690
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: like to work with? What does he want? And how

691
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: do you do it? Because it's so he is he

692
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: is such a unicorn, Like there are unicorns and then

693
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: there are just to me, Yeah, he is way out

694
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: there on the unicorn spectrum. Yeah, So what's it like

695
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: working with him? And what does he want? What are

696
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: you guys trying to do? And what is that interaction.

697
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: Like, So the good news is that in certain areas

698
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: like look, I'm good at the golf swing stuff, I

699
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 2: can read those things and look at data and whatnot.

700
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: He wants a lot of that, sure, So I try

701
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: the best of my ability to make sure that I'm

702
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: surrounding the right people around him to make sure those

703
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: things are done. So like Ga Paul Nate, you know

704
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: in sports Box, like getting the right data collected.

705
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: DJ doesn't want data. Freddy Couples doesn't want data, right.

706
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: They are more kind of feel sure, you know, they

707
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: want to be able to play. They want the concepts

708
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: to be really really simple. They're not in my they're

709
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: not tacticians, right Bryson, yea. You can't give him enough data.

710
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, And it all comes back to committing

711
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: to the shot. Like for him, if he understands what

712
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: he's doing, he can commit to hitting the shot. So

713
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: it goes into equipment too, So that's another facet on

714
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: the equipment side. I'd defer that obviously, like Connor and

715
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: him and I from the peripherally watch and I'll give

716
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: my opinion, but you know, I'm not a I'm not

717
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: a club guy. So the refreshing thing to me. And

718
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: this is a little bit long term observation. Bryson's really

719
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: good because he knows he's really good. His identity is

720
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 2: incredibly good, and that's refreshing.

721
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: Every single For as crazy as his journey has been, yeah,

722
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: with the one length, with all of the stuff that

723
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: he tried to do with the golf balls, with the

724
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: drivers at the long drive and stuff, I don't think

725
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: he gets enough credit for. Like he's been good at

726
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: every single level he's played at his two time major champion,

727
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: he won the US Amateur, he had a great career

728
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: at SMU, he was winning tour events. He's been on

729
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: Ryder cops. Right. I mean it's not a fluke, no,

730
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: but sometimes it can look outwardly like it's a science experiment.

731
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's outward of the norm. And this it goes

732
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: back to that standard deviation graph, being that he's on

733
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: that side. He's pushing the industry in a direction that

734
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: he feels and we feel because there's a lot of

735
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: things that he's doing that I'm like, well, that's very

736
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: very smart.

737
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: Like give me an example.

738
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think, like you look at everybody swings different

739
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: club at speeds, right, so when the industry only produces

740
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: a driver that is built for let's say one seventy

741
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: ball speed, you could you preclude both sides so now

742
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 2: you can adjust it, you know, loft and shaft and

743
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: all those things. But there's other pieces there that I

744
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: can't talk about, but that are being experimented on in

745
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: order to help both sides, you know, because he's obviously

746
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: two hundred ball speed if he wants to do it,

747
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: no problem. So at those speeds, like the demand on

748
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: the driver is different and.

749
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: The demand on the golf one percent. I've listened to

750
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: Bryson over the last five years to talk more about

751
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: the speed that he's trying to hit the golf ball, yep,

752
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: and the interaction between the golf ball and the golf

753
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: club at the speeds he's trying to hit it. He's

754
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: I think he's finding things that we didn't think that

755
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: we would be able to ever have to worry about

756
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: from a performance standpoint, because no one ever thought that

757
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: you could perform at the speeds he's got. Yeah, So

758
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting that he in some ways, you know, I

759
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: look at Bryson as you know, I was around Bryson

760
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot when he was at Cobra Puma. I watched

761
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, Ben Showman and James posey On on the

762
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Cobra Trup. I mean, those guys need a Nobel Peace

763
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: Prize for you know, the work that they did and

764
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: what they tried to do with Bryson. But at times

765
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: it looked like it was a science experiment and stuff.

766
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting that he is pushing the

767
00:41:55,160 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: boundary so much that he is finding things that no

768
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: one's ever found before.

769
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Yeah, And it's refreshing to me for

770
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: somebody to be an innovator in a way. Look, I'm

771
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: not an innovator. I mean maybe in some aspects of

772
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: my life, but as far as golf's concerned, I'm going

773
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: to be transparently I'm not. It's like watching a builder

774
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: or a and I want to blow him up too

775
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: much here, but like an Elon type, you know, personality

776
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: and go hey, we can go to the moon, this

777
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 2: is how you do it, or we need to go

778
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: to Mars. This is how you do it, and where

779
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 2: things are right now, we can't do it now. He will,

780
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, go out and pull the right resources and

781
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: minds to have the conversation to move that forward. And

782
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: the thing that I have to make sure is that

783
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: we're playing golf now. From like, my line item is

784
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: pretty simple because I know what his golf swing needs

785
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: to do.

786
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: In your opinion, what does his golf swing need to do?

787
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: He hits it one way for the most part, like

788
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: just a stock draw. You know, it starts right, draws

789
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: backspen access. Let's say it's three to the right, three

790
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: back like something like that. But need to make sure

791
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: that's humming at all speeds. And if that happens, he

792
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: can then turn the artistry piece on because people don't

793
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: realize how good he is at chipping and putting.

794
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. Yeah, he's very bumpers. And the other crazy

795
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 1: thing Dan is you know it's chipping with seven six

796
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: iron Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's impressive with giant grips and

797
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:29,479
Speaker 1: you know.

798
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the athletic intuitive artist is in there, even

799
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: though he's wearing you know, a lapcoat, a lab coat.

800
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: So I find it to be a lot of fun.

801
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: And look, it makes everybody in the team better, you know,

802
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: because we all have different roles, we all think differently,

803
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 2: and we all care like we care about the project

804
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: moving in the right direction, which I think is important.

805
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: When Bryson gets off right, what are his signature DNA

806
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: things that you see on a regular basis, you know,

807
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: from DJ standpoint, set up gets off, ball position gets off,

808
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: alignment gets off. So a lot of the stuff Brooks

809
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: was kind of like that when I worked with Brooks.

810
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: You know, the set up, the ball position, at the

811
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: speeds they're going at right, they can start, get the

812
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: golf golf line, and then everything kind of works off

813
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: of that. Backswing for those guys would tend to get

814
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: a little bit too much inside down swing would tend

815
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: to get a little bit under path is getting too

816
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: neutral for the shape. They both wanted to fade it.

817
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: So when Bryson gets off, what are the things that

818
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: you see consistently that are kind of the things that happen.

819
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when things get off, I would say

820
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: that the swinger extroom doesn't go enough to the right. Okay,

821
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: it tends to move to left because of your drawer.

822
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 2: The release time, i'm isn't at the right time. So

823
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: we know, for you know, lack of a better word,

824
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: when those things are occurring, the precursors that allow those

825
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: things to occur and it's pretty quick fix to be honest,

826
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: like he's got it. I've I mean, look like he

827
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: stands on the range like this morning and you think

828
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: he hit one ball to the right. I mean that's

829
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: pretty dang good yeah for him. So yeah, the big

830
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: miss for him is where direction right right shot, So

831
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: it starts right and just goes further right, just doesn't

832
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: come back. Yeah, starts but once again, like it's a

833
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: it's a team effort. He's leading the charge. I think

834
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 2: the social media piece is really really important to him,

835
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: and I appreciate it because he is, you know, not

836
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: only the innovator in that space, but also he wants

837
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: to see the industry go more towards the kids, which

838
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: is really really refreshing.

839
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

840
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 2: Like I've always struggled with that where I live in

841
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: California because you know, real estate is through the roof.

842
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 2: There's no land. Everything's a private club, you know, So

843
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: if you don't have two hundred and fifty grand to

844
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: drop on a membership and get on a waiting list,

845
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: like you can't really do anything. You go to Rancho

846
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: Park right there by and try to get a mat

847
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: to hit balls. You know, it's just it's being crushed

848
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 2: and crushed and crushed. So with him, like if you

849
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: create a need, like a needing golf, like, hey, I

850
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: want to go play, and enough people want to go play,

851
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 2: and they grow up feeling like I want to go play,

852
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: and they're gonna build more golf courses and they're they're

853
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: they're they're not gonna want another Starbucks. They're gonna say, hey,

854
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: we're gonna put a driving range here. We're gonna put

855
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: a golf course here. We're gonna put a nine hole

856
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: part three lit driving range or whatever it is. That's

857
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: my big hope.

858
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: Lastly, what do you like about where the golf instruction

859
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: industry is right now? And what don't you like? And

860
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: where do you see the next five years going?

861
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: Good question. I'll start with what I don't like. I

862
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: think that's a safe step to take part of. It

863
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: is a fighting piece. But people are trying to once

864
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: again go back to trying to be a part of something.

865
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: And the more you're like that, you're and you're in

866
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 2: this like tribe situation. I don't want to say cult,

867
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 2: but like tribe situation.

868
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: Well there, I mean, I think within the golf construction

869
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: world and within the golf instruction social world. There are

870
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: camps and cults of people that are down this rabbit hole.

871
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: They can't see anything else, they don't want to see

872
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 1: anything else, they don't want to learn anything else. They think, listen,

873
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: this is the way you swing the golf club. You know,

874
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: we've got the data to back this up. Blah blah

875
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And then there's other people in this camp.

876
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 2: They're violently a post. Yeah, because it's like the political situation,

877
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 2: and well, that's that's what I mean. It's like it's

878
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: a very polarizing, polarizing human experience, and it's probably in

879
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: every industry, you know, probably the same in medicine and science.

880
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: But that part I would like to see. I think

881
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: people are better when there's a difference of opinion and experience.

882
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: And like if you only work with juniors and you

883
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: want to know how like somebody works with only tour

884
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: players or adults, like, that'd be nice to see that crossover.

885
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: And if you only teach like one technique or one principle,

886
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: look at the other principle.

887
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: You know, my dad always says, your two instructors, go

888
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: find the person that you disagree with. The most Yeah,

889
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: and go listen to them speak, seminal or podcast, whatever,

890
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: and see if you can take one thing out of

891
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: what you are violently against, yeah, and apply it in

892
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: a positive way.

893
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, I think that's healthy. That's a good thing.

894
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: And the other part, as far as like the positives,

895
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 2: is that I really do think that the governing bodies

896
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: within whether it be USGA, PJA, live, all of them,

897
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out like where to go next.

898
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: I do see a consorted effort across all spectrums. And

899
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: they do know that TV's changed, you know, you have

900
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: you know, subscriber services, you have a lot of different

901
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: things where you're trying to get eyes and.

902
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: Where people are consuming media change dramatically. And you know

903
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: since we last spoke, you know, on the podcast four

904
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: years ago. I mean if you look at how people

905
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: were consuming golf content, you know, you would never in

906
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: a million years think I just wouldn't have believed four

907
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: years ago influencer golf, Yeah, would be what it is

908
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: today and would be as popular as it is.

909
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like my pro shop, when I walk in there,

910
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: guys behind the counter, if they have a TV in

911
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: the corner and they're watching you know, YouTube golf. You know,

912
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: it's and they have their relatable characters, I would call it.

913
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of it, is the relatability

914
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: of Joey col Cutz or something like that. You know,

915
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: is relatable to maybe somebody who's in their forties and

916
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: you know, wants to go get a beer at the turn.

917
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: But when they look at Tiger, they're like, well, you know,

918
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 2: he's the chosen one, so we're not relatable to him.

919
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 2: So I think that's kind of the interesting leveraged situation

920
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: we're in right now. It's like, where is that going

921
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: to go? And where do you see instruction in five years? Well, instruction,

922
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: I hope. My goal, one of my big goals, and

923
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: this is actually a true goal, is to really take

924
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: this large sample size of data and condense it down

925
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: to the average person in a way. And I try

926
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: to convey it that this is just this is just

927
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: the data piece of it. You can do whatever you

928
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: want with it, like you need there needs to be

929
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: some like liberal right and left of things as you

930
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: go through that, and in doing such, you're going to

931
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: start seeing like and I think I think TPI actually

932
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: has done a really good job of this and conveying

933
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: the message that everybody moves differently and we need to

934
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: respect that. And you know, everybody's tall, short, wide, skinny,

935
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: and different movement patterns. Gate cycle however you want to

936
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: convey it, And where does that fall into the data,

937
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: Like is it something that you know, hey, this person

938
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: needs to move this way and this person needs to

939
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: move that way instead of just have them beat their

940
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: head against the wall for five years. You know, I

941
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: think that's what I would like to see. You think

942
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: tech will evolve and become more accessible and more user

943
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 2: friendly smartphones, I mean, you know the sports box stuff

944
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: that g HA has come up with, you know, I

945
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: think that's, you know, really really interesting stuff.

946
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we're just kind of probably at the

947
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: beginning of that. You know. I think we'll see more

948
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: use of AI try and figure out the data to

949
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: make the data easier to manage.

950
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole goal. Like if you went on

951
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: and I don't do this because you know, I'm not

952
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: of the age. I think I have to be probably

953
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 2: thirty to do this all the time. But I see

954
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 2: people do this, Like let me check on like Jim

955
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: and I and see what it says about this particular topic,

956
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: and it actually like simplifies it, like, oh, like the

957
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: first line, like if we're looking at let's say, like

958
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: club shafts, right, like what is the profile of a

959
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: club shaft going to do? And you go on Gemini

960
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: and it just says, oh, this one's going to do this, this, this,

961
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: and this. Now it doesn't say exactly that's going to do,

962
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: but eighty percent of the time it's going to that

963
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: first line is going to be pretty important. So you

964
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: look there. Now, I might confirm that with somebody who's

965
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 2: done club work for twenty five years, like, hey, have

966
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: you experienced someone in the real world, Yeah, exactly, so

967
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: like some of like Pat McCoy or something like that,

968
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: like what is what's his opinion? But yeah, I think

969
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: that's kind of what we're seeing. I'm I'm always an optimist.

970
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 2: I'm not ever, at least anymore. I'm pretty optimist about

971
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 2: where the things are going to be.

972
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: Dana, great to talk to you, man. Let's let's not

973
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: leave it for the next four years. And one of

974
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: the cool things about you know, you being out here

975
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: with Bryson on live is you know, I get to

976
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: kind of pick your brain because there's a hell of

977
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that you know, I don't know,

978
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: and you know, I think what the best thing that

979
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: you've said is, there's there's room for a lot of

980
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: different opinions, there's rooms for a lot of there's room

981
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 1: for a lot of different golf swings, and I love

982
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: the work you do and thanks for talking to me.

983
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: Thank you.