WEBVTT - The Prosecution 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:07.240 Before we begin, please be aware this episode contains discussions 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:11.280 around infant deaths and other difficult topics. Please take care 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:11.959 while listening. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.200 They told me that's stirring a lot more destinate. 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:22.599 I think, did you have any concerns that the glass. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.280 Arise in Mortality Day? 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:25.760 Yes? 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.400 So tell me about what concerns did you. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:31.800 I think we don't just. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:37.520 Notice till the teenagers and start there discours and last 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:38.960 competive previous years. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.720 I'm watching a short clip from Lucy Leppy's police interrogation. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.600 It's not long, but it's hard to watch. What strikes 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.200 me immediately is how small she seems in the room. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:01:00.720 She sits quietly, her shoulders rounded, her voice low. She 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:06.720 answers questions carefully, not defensively, not forcefully, but with a 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.319 kind of deference, as if she's already accepted that the 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:16.440 people across the table control what happens next. I hesitate 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.440 even to say that out loud, because I know how 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.520 dangerous interpretation can be. And I also know that plenty 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.240 of others convinced of Lucy let Bee's guilt have watched 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:31.200 this video and seen a wolf in sheep's clothing. I 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.400 was called that too, and I can still remember when 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.760 my own body took on that posture, that sense of 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.640 being trapped inside a process you don't fully understand, where 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:50.280 every word feels like it can make things worse. Yeah, 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:55.760 I mean, watching interrogation videos is not fun for me. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:05.000 Here you were asking why am I was dressed? I 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.920 was scared. It was after long hourity vening, middle of 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.400 the night. I were the innocent. They were telling me 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:16.079 that I was feel. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.560 My own interrogation began much the way Lucy's did. At first, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:23.720 I responded the same way, carefully, dutifully trying to cooperate, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.680 believing if I was calm, honest, if I just explained 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:34.720 myself clearly enough, the situation would resolve itself. And then 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.640 as the pressure built, something shifted. They accused me of 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:44.520 lying repeatedly. I became desperate to be believed, but all 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.560 I could do was repeat the truth, and that never 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.680 seemed to satisfy them. I'm telling you what I know. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:54.440 Why don't you believe me? I thought maybe it was 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.040 my bad Italian, that it was my fault. They were 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.720 getting so angry as they get me into doubting my 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:06.480 own memories, as they threatened me with thirty years in prison. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.880 As they slapped me, I didn't know what was true 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:13.160 or not anymore. 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.680 A part of me even began to doubt myself. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.040 That's where my mind goes when I watch this video 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.359 of Lucy, that feeling that the people asking me questions 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:31.040 aren't looking for the truth, but for confirmation of a 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:40.560 guilt they've already assumed. I spoke about Lucy's police interview 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.440 with journalist Rachel Levive, who covered the let Be case 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.240 for The New Yorker. Rachel had spent several weeks reading 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.840 the full transcript, and I wanted to know what she 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:50.680 made of them. 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:56.920 I could see sort of the disorientation of being accused 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.400 of something that felt like a very alien concept, and 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.360 just like not knowing how to talk about it. It 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:07.080 was like an incongruous thing in her life that she 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.520 had no language for even sort of comprehending how she 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.600 had got there. And I think you could see her 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.560 when she was in the police interview, just like not 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.560 quite getting it and sort of answering but not really 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.919 defending herself, just sort of trying to be a good student, 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.919 trying to be like an obedient nurse in a way, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.640 and also kind of giving the authorities the benefit of 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.880 the doubt, Like she seemed like someone who really did 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.000 trust authority, And it was almost as if she was saying, like, 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.440 if they think I did something wrong, maybe I really did. 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.200 I mean, I deeply empathize with that. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.360 That seemed to be the state that she was in 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.120 a lot for the police interviews at least, and even 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.520 for the trial, sort of like just a sense of 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.400 grief that she was finding herself in that position. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:57.040 The interrogation room and the courtroom are very different spaces, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:02.960 but they are connected. The assumptions formed in one quietly 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.159 set the terms of the other, and it was within 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:11.400 those terms that the prosecution presented its case. So when 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.600 Lucy let Bee finally took the stand, she wasn't starting 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.680 from zero. She was stepping into a story that had 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:24.320 already been written about her, and every pause, every careful answer, 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:30.400 every attempt to explain herself was now filtered through that story, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.480 not in the interrogation room, but in front of twelve jurors. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:41.839 This episode is about how that story was told. I'm 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.479 Amanda Knox and from Vespucci and iHeart Podcasts. This is 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:52.040 Doubt The Case of Lucy let Be Episode four the prosecution. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:11.520 It's October tenth, twenty twenty two. Rain drizzles over Manchester 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:17.320 Crown Court. Inside the air is heavy. For the first time, 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.880 Lucy letb steps into the court. After three and a 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:27.520 half years of investigation, thousands of interviews and mountains of evidence, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:33.120 police handed their case to the Crown Prosecution Service. Manchester 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.839 Crown Court sits right in the city center, a working 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:45.240 courthouse built for volume. It's not grand or ceremonial. It's practical, busy, 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.280 the kind of place where life changing things happen in 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.080 rooms that look almost ordinary. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:07:00.320 Manchester Crown Court is a relatively modern building. It is 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:05.480 slightly decaying, I have to say, long corridors not particularly 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:06.840 public friendly. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.200 That's kim pelling again. The journalist who was in the 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:11.360 court at the time. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:18.280 It's probably fifteen courtrooms in the building. I was in 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.840 Court seven. From my perspective as a reporter, gave you 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.280 a very good front, real seat. The stage was all 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:27.480 set in front of you. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:34.200 The public gallery is small, seats are scarce. Everyone is 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.320 packed into a room waiting for a trial that comes. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.440 Nearly seven years after the first alarms were raised. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:46.320 The public galleries was divided into two sides as you 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:49.920 walked through the entrance. The left hand side where I sat, 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.280 maybe I have fifteen or to push. So there was 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.080 three four seats available to the press and that was it. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.400 Let Bemum and Dad, John and Sue were on the 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.440 right hand side, and then on the other side were 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.760 the families of the victims and we were sat in 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.880 front of them on the front row of the public gallery, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.960 nearest to the dock. In the well of the court 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.560 was the judge, Mister Justice Goss, and then in front 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.800 of us were the various lawyers, including the League Council 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:33.600 for the prosecution, Nick Johnson, King's Council and Ben Meyers 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.200 for the defense Ben Meyers, King's Council. And then behind 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.320 them we had the Charity of twelve. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:47.400 And then the defendant, a face most people there knew 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.640 only through photographs printed after her arrest, frozen beneath headlines 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.120 describing the charges she now faced. 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.600 There was great anticipation ahead of let be coming into 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.760 the stock you were going to see in person, and 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.959 of course there's a great curiosity is to her appearance 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:07.840 and how she conveys. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.280 Herself for the first time. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.959 The jury of four men and eight women were able 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.520 to assess this so called monster for themselves. But for 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.240 Kim at least, what he saw was. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.400 Nothing that stood out, So she wasn't particularly expressive. She 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.040 looked tired and strained. It was hard to get a 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.200 handle on her from the start. Really, she didn't fit 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:37.080 the characterization of some of the accused of such monstrous crimes, unfortunately, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:43.040 rather banal realities that they had looked often just like anybody, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.680 any normal person that you just passed the street without thinking. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.839 The clerk asks her name. Lucy let Be confirms, and 0:09:52.880 --> 0:10:01.600 then the charges seven counts of murder, fifteen counts of 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:07.679 attempted murder. Twenty two times they're read out, and twenty 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:14.280 two times she replies not guilty. The judge rules all 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.160 twenty two charges are to be tried together. That would 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.280 mean after both opening statements, there would be twenty five 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.760 weeks of prosecution evidence before the defense could even counter. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.080 For us listeners, you may be interested to know that 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.480 in British courts there are highly experienced senior lawyers who 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.920 are given the title King's Counsel or often shortened to KC, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.640 with English prosecuting lawyers being part of the Crown prosecution service, 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.520 because theoretically, right at the top of the criminal judicial 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:54.880 system in Britain is the King. So in every case 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:59.679 it's always the monarch versus the defendant, and in this 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:06.160 case it was Rex, you know, like King versus Lucy 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:06.679 let Be. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.280 As I have already told you, a large quantity of 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.840 paperwork from the hospital was recovered. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.720 What you are hearing now is an actor reading sections 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.160 from the court transcript of Nick Johnson, k C, the 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:29.160 prosecutor in the case, giving his opening statement. Prosecutors don't 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:34.120 just present facts, They organize them. They decide what comes first, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:39.079 what follows, and how quickly the picture takes shape. Evidence 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:44.520 is paced, arranged and built over time. So in that 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:49.400 room the prosecution aren't just presenting evidence, they are telling 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:49.920 a story. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.959 In addition to the paperwork relating to some of the 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.480 children I have told you about and other children, they 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.560 also found some other interesting items. 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:07.880 Nick Johnson's opening ran for ninety four pages, three days 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:14.120 in court, three days of evidence previewed, themes introduced, and 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:19.600 a narrative laid carefully into place, and the image Johnson 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.240 chose to end on the one he left ringing in 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:30.040 the courtroom wasn't medical charts or expert testimony. It was 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.080 a post it note found in Lucy Letbe's home. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.559 There were some post it notes, you know what I mean, 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.600 those little yellow tabula notes with closely written words on them, 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.600 some of which included the names of her colleagues. On 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.559 some of the notes were phrases like why, how has 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.360 this happened? What process has led to this current situation? 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.400 What allegations have been made? And by whom do they 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:04.680 have retch evidence to support their comments. In her writings, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.960 she expressed frustration at the fact that she wasn't being 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.280 allowed back onto the neonatal unit, and she wrote, I 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.120 haven't done anything wrong and they have no evidence, so 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.200 why have I had to hide away? And her notes 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.120 also expressed concern for the long term effects of what 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.240 she feared was being alleged against her. There are also 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.360 many protestations of innocence, but I want to show you 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.960 one note in particular. There's all sorts of material on 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.920 this document, but just where that gross is now, just 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.680 to the right of that, it says I don't deserve 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.880 to live. I killed them on purpose because I'm not 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.800 good enough to take care of them. I am a horrible, 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:58.680 evil person. At the bottom, I am evil. I did this. Well, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.160 ladies and gentlemen, that, in a nutshell is your task 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.400 in this case. You have to decide on the evidence 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.280 whether she did do these things or any of them. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.440 It is important to remember that the prosecution brings this 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.400 case and therefore we, the prosecution, must prove it. And 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.200 in order to prove it, we must make you sure. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:22.120 Thank you, my lord. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:24.880 Here's kim pelling again. 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.800 The posit notes were, yeah, I'd said, they were a 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:32.560 key moment in that. I think it was purposefully done 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.000 to sort of say, I'm finally to the jury. We've 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.440 given you all this information as to how we think 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.640 she's the killer on the unit. And it is a 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.440 little bit more so, that's a very striking visual piece 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.760 of evidence for the jury. So we got that very 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.560 early on, and of course you look at that and 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.480 you think, ah, well, this could be game over already. Here. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:05.520 You know, this person's literally confessed to what she done. 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.200 By the time the prosecution finished its opening, the tone 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.640 of the trial had already been set before the jury 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.240 heard a single doctor, before a single scan or blood 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.840 result was put on screen. The question of what that 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:26.920 note meant, a confession or a fragment of despair twisted 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:32.160 into evidence would be argued later, but for now, this 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.480 was the frame through which the jury would begin to 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:41.640 hear months of dense medical evidence, timelines, collapses, charts, and 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.840 expert opinion, not in a vacuum, but under the shadow 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:52.480 of words already hanging in the room. I am evil. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:54.440 I did this. 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.120 Along with the handwritten notes recovered from Lucy Leppy's home, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.600 the prosecution would go on to present a wide range 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:14.320 of other evidence. They placed text messages and social media 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:19.600 activity alongside events on the neonatal unit, time stamped exchanges 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.520 that sometimes read like real time commentary and were used 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.880 to suggest how Lucy reassured her colleagues that sudden collapses 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:32.920 were simply natural deteriorations. In an attempt to deflect suspicion. 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.240 One of these text messages, Lucy wrote, it was the 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.120 hardest thing I've ever had to do. Just a big 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.120 shock for us, all hard coming in tonight and seeing 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:50.000 the parents XX. An exchange between one colleague read we 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.480 lost baby D, to which her colleague replies, what, but 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.120 she was improving? What happened? Wanta chat? I can't believe 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.760 you were on again. You're having such a tough time. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.960 In another exchange, a colleague wonders, what's happening on the unit. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.640 There's something odd about that night and the other three 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:15.719 that went so suddenly. Lucy replies, well, baby C was tiny, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.840 obviously compromised in utero, BABYD septic. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.639 It's baby A. I can't get my head around. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.119 The jury was also shown a chart that the Crown 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.960 said revealed that let Be was the one constant presence 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.560 across the deaths and collapses, including a shift from incidents 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.160 happening overnight to happening during the day once Lucy's own 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:46.399 shift patterns changed. But central to the case were the 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:52.639 medical records themselves. These medical records were used to establish 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.879 the baby's conditions before and after each collapse, to argue 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.760 that some recoveries were two it was sudden to be natural, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.160 and to allege that notes and timings had been altered 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:11.800 to distance Lucy let Be from critical moments. The prosecution 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.520 then laid out the different mechanisms by which they alleged 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:16.560 harm had been done. 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.280 There was so many different ways that they said that 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.560 let Bey had killed or harmed these babies, which in 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.680 itself was strange to begin with. 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.760 Sarah Napton, science editor for the British newspaper The Daily Telegraph, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.080 was following the trial closely. 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.640 But they said she had, over a period of over 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:42.560 twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, had been purposely inflicting harmon 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.439 babies in various ways. In some cases, they said she 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:50.160 had injected air into their bloodstream, which caused a blockage 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.840 en anati stable item and they went into cardiako restident 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.439 some of them died. In other cases, they said she 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.439 injected air into the stomach, which that has the effect 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.640 of making the stomach in large, and then that pushes 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.399 up into the diaphragm, which is controlling the lungs coming 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.159 in and out. So if the diaphragms constricted and can't 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.760 sutly pumped the lungs, then the baby can't get a 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.080 toxic generic and it collapses. In other cases, they said 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.320 she'd put insulin into feedbacks so that the babies had 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.880 too much insulin. There was another case where they said 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.280 she dislodged the tube of a baby, another case where 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.879 she'd injected milk into the baby's stomach to cause it 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.560 to vomit and destabilize. There was another incident when they 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.120 said she smothered the baby. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.320 In most serial murder trials, the prosecution points to a 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.840 single consistent method orm O. Here they were asking the 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:50.520 jury to accept seven different mechanisms of harm, from insulin 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:55.760 poisoning in two babies, air injected into the bloodstream of others, 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.679 physical interference with breathing, and in so cases, a method 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:06.520 they said had never before been described, forcing air into 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:12.840 baby's stomachs until they could no longer breathe. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:13.480 It was a. 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.240 Theory that had no clear precedent in the medical literature, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:22.240 and one that some doctors unconnected to the case said 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.159 that they had never encountered. But the Crown's expert witnesses 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.000 told the jury it was possible and that it had happened. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:36.440 Here the jury would hear from dozens of witnesses, not 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:43.359 just experts, but also nurses, doctors, and parents, But one 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:47.399 voice would become the spine of the medical case, and 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:52.320 he was the first expert witness called. Here are actors 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.240 reading court transcripts, Could. 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:56.280 You please state your full name. 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.000 Dr Evans, Dr Dewwie Richard Fans. 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:05.280 Thank you. You are I understand a consultant pediatrician. I 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.480 am Could you please inform the jury when you first 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:09.600 qualified medically. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.280 I qualified from the Welsh National School of Medicine in 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.959 nineteen seventy one and carried out my first pediatric post 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:21.639 eighteen months later. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:26.680 Now, as you may recall from earlier episodes, doctor Evans 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.399 or the Welsh Wizard, had never treated any of the 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.800 babies in this case. He had never worked at the 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.240 Countess of Chester Hospital. He was actually retired and had 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.840 reached out to police to volunteer himself as an expert 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:47.360 witness in this case. But his role was different. Doctor 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.720 Evans was there to look backward, to read the medical notes, 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:57.720 reconstruct collapses and tell the jury what those records meant, What, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.720 in his opinion, could explain what had happened to these 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.040 babies and what could not. 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.240 Having passed through the various stages of training, could you 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.160 confirm that you later became a National Health Service clinical 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:13.639 consultant pediatrician. 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:20.200 Yes, I was appointed consultant pediatrician in Swansea in nineteen. 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:26.840 Eighty Before any individual child was discussed, Before any allegation 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:31.520 was examined, the court spent hours establishing who he was, 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:37.639 his decades in neonatology, his role building intensive care services, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.960 his long experience as an expert witness in criminal and 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:48.760 family courts. This mattered because from this point on, much 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.080 of what the jury would hear about how these babies died, 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:58.199 whether their collapses were natural, accidental, or deliberate, would be 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:04.480 filtered through doctor Evans's conclusions. He wasn't just another witness, 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.000 He was the lens, and as the prosecution made clear, 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:13.200 they were asking the jury to trust that lens, case 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:18.720 by case, baby by baby as the medical foundation of 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:26.280 everything that would follow. The prosecution began with Baby A, 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:30.600 a premature infant who collapsed and died shortly after birth. 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:37.440 The allegation was air embolism, air entering the bloodstream. 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.919 So essentially, an air embolism is where a pocket of 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:46.080 air and air bubble is injected into a vane on 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.760 the body and things need to run freely so that 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.679 oxygen the blood can run to the heart and the 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.960 lungs and everything gets oxygen into that and then gets 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.840 the brain. If you have an air bubble in that system, 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.159 as you can imagine, it's basically forming a little buckage, 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.320 and that can cause no problem with the brain. It 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:06.520 can cause problem with the heart. 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:11.600 Here's actors again, reading court transcripts of doctor Evans's testimony 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:14.119 about Baby A's possible cause of death. 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.600 Yes, finally, on baby A, please, doctor Evans. The means 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.240 by which air could have been inserted into a baby's 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.200 circulation from what you know of the way in which 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.960 Baby A was being treated, What are the possibilities? 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:32.399 Well, there are only two really, sorry, there's only one. Really. 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.440 The air would have gone through an intravenous line, and 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.560 that can only occur in two ways, accidentally or on purpose, 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:45.280 and that's it. Some time ago I obtained a copy 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.200 of all the intravenous bits and pieces of equipment used 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.840 at the Chester hospital, which we're all familiar with. We're 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:56.720 all familiar with these lines from visiting people in hospital, 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.720 an intravenous bag line. I won't go through the whole bit, 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:06.200 but doctors, nurses, we're so obsessive about ensuring that air 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:09.600 does not get into the system. You know, we're absolutely 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:13.360 obsessive about it and always have been. And it's much 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:18.199 better now than so. Having rigged up the system that 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.040 was used in Chester, and it's in a room in 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:25.400 this court, in this building, so we could demonstrate it 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.720 if necessary, I rigged it all up. There's no way 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:34.600 air could have got into baby A by accident. You know, 0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:39.080 the fail safe systems, the monitoring, the alarm setups which 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:42.760 have been present for you know, a couple of decades. 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:47.160 I suppose ensures that this is not something that can 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:48.320 occur accidentally. 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:57.920 Thank you, no ambiguity, no alternative explanation offered. The problem 0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:02.200 with air embolism is that it leaves no DNA. It's 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:06.359 hard to prove. But here doctor Evans was pointing to 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:09.080 a red flag all over the baby's skin. 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:15.080 Dr Dowie Evans based his confusion of air embolism on 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.880 a skin rush, largely so in many of the babies. 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.560 There was a splitting pink rush that is recorded in 0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:24.200 some cases and the doctors talk about it in other 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:28.040 cases which had its mottled appearance, and it came and 0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:31.160 went and they said it was evidence of our embolism. Now, 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:33.040 one of the papers, or pretty much the only paper 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:35.160 they based that on, was a paper by a very 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.359 very eminent ponetologist and Canada called doctor shoe Lee's. 0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:44.679 Now remember the name doctor shoe Lee because his paper 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:47.320 and what he has to say about it will later 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:52.520 become vitally important. But for Now, doctor Evans was very 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:56.600 keen on emphasizing the importance of this study to the jury. 0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.040 Doctor Evans argue is that the paper supports what the 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:05.840 doctor is at the hospital suspected that these types of 0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:10.120 rashes are indicative of an air embolism. 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:15.320 So therefore what we've got here is bright pink vessels 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:21.160 against the generalely cyanosed cutaneous, you know, relating to the skin. 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:25.920 So the fact that it's bright pink, now that is remarkable. 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:31.600 It's very unusual. It shouldn't be pink, you know. Or 0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:36.240 if it's pink, why has the baby collapsed? It doesn't 0:27:36.280 --> 0:27:42.760 make sense. Their interpretation is absolutely correct. 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:48.080 Then there was baby E. Baby E had died of 0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:53.320 gastro intestinal bleeding. Doctor Evans was not asked to name 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:59.160 a precise cause. He was asked something narrower, whether there 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:02.400 was any evidence this could have happened naturally. 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:05.800 There is no evidence at all that this was a 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.439 natural phenomenon. It is not something I have ever seen 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:15.600 in my decades of neonatology and hands on clinical practice. 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:25.840 Again, certainty, not unlikely, not rare, not unexplained. In doctor 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:32.200 Evans's view, impossible to attribute to nature. This was the 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:38.560 pattern the prosecution established case by case, sudden collapse, no 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:45.600 natural explanation, expert opinion that deliberate harm was the only answer. 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:50.640