1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: should Know. I think this is a long time coming edition. 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how have we not covered Ann Sullivan 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: and Helen Keller at this point? It's kind of weird. 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. But this is the kind of thing 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: that's like, yeah, we still got a few years left 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: in this, you. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Know, totally. And we're not scraping the bottom of any 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: barrels here. 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: No, we're not even dipping into the top of the 13 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: barrel yet. Everybody, it's still full. 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Of pickles, that's right, or cream that has risen to 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: the top. 16 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: Oh, that's even better. Pickles and cream. 17 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: Right, But we're talking about Helen Keller and An Sullivan. 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: You probably know who these people are. But if you don't, 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: just very quickly we should say that I Sullivan was 20 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: a teacher of a young girl and others along the way, 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: but mainly known for her work with a young girl 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: starting from the age of six named Helen Keller, who 23 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: lost her sight in hearing as a nineteen month old 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: from what is likely bacterial meningitis, even though we don't 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: know for sure, and it's one of the great inspiring 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: stories of all time, and especially one that came early 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: on to show to the rest of the world who 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: at the time didn't think that people that had these 29 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: kinds of afflictions like blindness and being deaf, Like if 30 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: you had both of those, they were basically like, we're 31 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: going to send you to an institution because we can't 32 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: teach you anything. You know, you can't see, you can't hear. 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: We're sorry, yeah, And at those institutions they likely died. 34 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: A lot of them died just from neglect or abuse 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: or all sorts of different reasons, just because they were 36 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: unable to see or hear. And by this time, there 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: was education for the deaf, there was education for the blind, 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: but like you said, the deaf blind were considered like, 39 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: there's just no way you can teach them. And the 40 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: reason why is because the only senses they have are touch, smell, 41 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: and tastete that's about it. And that like they're just like, 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: we don't know how to teach anybody by taste, Like 43 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: you just can't do anything with them. So when you 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: really start to put yourself in Helen Keller's positions, totally 45 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: cut off by the world or from the world. It's 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: just mind boggling and as inspiring as it gets to 47 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: stop and think about what Ann Sullivan actually did and 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: then what Helen Keller was able to do after Ann 49 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: Sullivan did her thing. 50 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: Initially, Yeah, for sure, one of the great relationships and 51 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: partnerships of history. Yeah, world history and certainly American history. 52 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: There had been some schools in place, and there was 53 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: one recording did deaf blind person who had learned language. 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: It was a woman named Laura Bridgman. In the eighteen 55 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: thirty She worked with a guy named Samuel Gridley Howe 56 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: and he founded what's known as the Perkins School for 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: the Blind in Boston, which will come into play in 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: this story. But he taught her, and this is what 59 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: Anne Sullivan would teach Helen Keller, something called the manual alphabet, 60 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: which is as Lisa Simpson would say, Tapa tapa tapa, 61 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: where letters correspond to taps on a palm. And that 62 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: is how, you you know, very sort of slowly teach 63 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: somebody language without with them not being able to see 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: or hear. 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, they figured out how to teach somebody language just 66 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: through touch, which is impressive in and of itself. But 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: the fact that Laura Bridgman had learned that it was 68 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: a it was considered like a curiosity and anomaly like 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: this is not like that didn't extend to the idea 70 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: that you could teach deaf blind people anything generally. Right. 71 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And we should say that Ann Sullivan was vision 72 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: impaired herself, and that's how she ended up knowing Laura 73 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: Bridgman from that Perkin School for the Blind. 74 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: Right, And let's talk a little bit about Ann Sullivan. 75 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: She had an extraordinarily rough life man leading up to 76 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 2: about age fourteen. She was born in eighteen sixty six 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: to parents. Her mother was an invalid. Her father abandoned 78 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: them right after her mother died when she was I 79 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: think eight. By this time, she had lost most of 80 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 2: her vision. She had suffered an eye infection, and so 81 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: she and her brother Jimmy, they have no She's eight 82 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: and now she's in charge of her little brother. She's 83 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: blind and there's no one helping them any longer. There's 84 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 2: no one looking out for them. It's up to her 85 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: to look out for the both of them in any 86 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: way she can and so they had to move into 87 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: a public poor house in Tewksbury. 88 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: That's right, And we should point out she's vision impaired 89 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: at this I think until she was an adult she 90 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: suffered full blindness. Okay, but you know, rough life. This 91 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: poorhouse was awful. There were rumors and reports of cannibalism 92 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: at the shelter. It was filthy. They were constantly just 93 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: threatened and in danger, you know, health wise and otherwise. 94 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: And there was an inspection at one point of a 95 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: state board of charities, and a little teenage Anne Sullivan 96 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: actually convinced them she had no formal education, convinced a 97 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: government official who was on site there to send her 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 1: via tax dollars to that Perkin School for the Blind 99 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: in Boston, where she enrolled and would eventually graduate as 100 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: valid victorian of her class. 101 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to get that point across, when she 102 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: was fourteen is when she was sent to Perkins School. 103 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: She lived in a poorhouse for six years. Her brother 104 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: died four months after they moved there when he contracted tuberculosis. 105 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 2: She'd had an incredibly rough life. Her first formal education 106 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: came at age fourteen when she went to Perkins, and 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 2: six years later she was valedictorian again despite being uncited. Like, 108 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: her story in and of itself is incredibly inspiring, but 109 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: it just picks up from there. 110 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And the reason we sort of mentioned 111 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: the Perkins stuff because, like I said, that's where she 112 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: met Laura Bridgman, and notably, that's where she learned that 113 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: manual alphabet because she wanted to converse with Laura Bridgman. 114 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: So Keller, like I said, probably lost her her sight 115 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: and her hearing from bacterial meningitis is what they suspect. Yeah, 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: she was born in eighteen eighty. She was completely developmentally 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: on track when this happened at nineteen months old. So 118 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: her life just took a really unfortunate turn. And so 119 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: from the moment that she was nineteen months old until 120 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 1: she was six, she was you know what some people 121 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: might call in a trapped state. She was just living 122 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: in her mind, unable to communicate her parents. You know, 123 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: she reacted very frustratingly, probably not surprisingly, and got increasingly 124 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: violent with her tantrums. And by the time she was six, 125 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: her parents were like, I don't know that we can 126 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: handle this safely anymore. We don't want to institutionalize her. 127 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: So they reached out somehow. I think her mom had 128 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: just remembered, like reading something about Laura Bridgman and that 129 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: Perkins School, and I think this is before Helen was 130 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: even born, and so they, I guess hopefully, put in 131 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: a phone call to Alexander Graham Bell and said, first 132 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: of all, thank you for this invention. This is pretty 133 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: cool that we can call you the inventor. 134 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: He said, bully bully. 135 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: He said, bully bully. And then they said, but I 136 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: know you're active in death education, and I know your 137 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: son in law runs the Perkins School. What do you 138 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: think about our daughter. It's a pretty tough case. 139 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And he was like, this is I think this 140 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: is just the job for the Perkins School. So he 141 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: pulled some strings and that kind of makes it sound 142 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: like the Perkins School's in Massachusetts. Helen Keller's family was 143 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: from Alabama. It sounds like her family was wealthy. They 144 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: were not. Her father was a captain in the Confederate 145 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: Army during the Civil War. After the Civil War, her 146 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: family was left poor, so they were not wealthy. I 147 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: think they had land and everything like that, but she 148 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: was not nearly as destitute as Anne Sullivan. But I 149 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: think it's worth the point that as she grew and 150 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: started living her life, she supported herself. She didn't come 151 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,599 Speaker 2: from a wealthy family. 152 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. In the meantime, while, you know, when 153 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: she gets in to school there, Anne Sullivan had already 154 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: gotten a job offer from Perkins. She was a great 155 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: student there. She knew that manual sign language, and they said, well, 156 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: we should just work here. And so on March third, 157 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six, Helen Keller would meet Anne Sullivan and 158 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: later call that her soul's birthday. 159 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. So Anne Sullivan was sent by Perkins to t Scumbia, 160 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: where the Kellers lived in Alabama, and she when she 161 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: got there, i mean almost immediately, Helen through a tantrum. 162 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: So Anne Sullivan got to see firsthand, right off the bat, 163 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: like this is going to be tough. This girl has 164 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: learned because her parents are letting her do this. She's 165 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: learned to express herself through violence, through anger, through intimidation, 166 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: through the thread of throwing another tantrum if she doesn't 167 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: get her way or she can't someone's not listening to 168 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: her or something. And Anne Sullivan was a scrappy Irish 169 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: lass who identified very quickly like if I'm going to 170 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: get through this girl. That stuff has to end immediately, 171 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: and so they were like, she spent about the first 172 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: week essentially physically overpowering Helen whenever she through a tan 173 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: and by the end of the week had lost the tooth. 174 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: I think she'd been touched many times they went through it. 175 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: But apparently after just a week Helen learned like, Okay, 176 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 2: this lady's not going to put up with that. I 177 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: should probably try a different tack. And it seems like 178 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: from that point she had gained Helen's trust and now 179 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: they could start with Helen's education. 180 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you think about it. Helen Keller didn't. 181 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: She couldn't even figure out who this person was all 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: of a sudden, this new person in her life, yeah, 183 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: who is now physically restraining her. I mean that was 184 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: sort of Sullowan's philosophy. She talked about. The gateway was obedience. Basically, 185 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: eventually you'll get to love and knowledge, but at first 186 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: I have to I have to sit on this girl. 187 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: Right, you know. Yeah, I mean she's like, she broke 188 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: a tooth from me, give me a break. 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, very encouragingly. And this is something as one 190 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: who's always believed in the healing powers of the great outdoors. 191 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: Getting Helen outside was a very big deal and a 192 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: very good sort of second step because they could explore nature. 193 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: It calmed Helen down immediately, and that's where her senses 194 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: of smell and touch could really be engaged. 195 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: She's later said, Helen did that if you were deaf 196 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 2: and blind, then out in the sun is the best 197 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: place to be, oh, because you can really feel it, 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, So it didn't really occur to me, 199 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: like I knew that this is a really big deal 200 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: to Anne Sullivan was able to teach Helen Keller, but 201 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 2: it didn't occur to me until I was researching this 202 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: that that wasn't even the first step. The first step, 203 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: like if you're teaching a kid something there in school, 204 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 2: you're saying, Okay, now we're going to learn the alphabet. 205 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: Here's the alphabet. This is what you use the alphabet 206 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: for to spell words. This is what this word means 207 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 2: for this right, this is the word for this thing. 208 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: They know that you're teaching them, so they're understanding that 209 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: they're accepting that information. 210 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: That's still hard. 211 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 2: It is that's hard in and of itself. Yeah, there 212 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: was no way for Anne Sullivan to explain to Helen Keller, 213 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: I'm here to teach you language. Right, she had to 214 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 2: essentially figure out how to break through to Helen Keller 215 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: so that Helen Keller realized what was going on now 216 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 2: and could take it from there could start to learn. 217 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: So there was this enormous obstacle before Helen Keller could 218 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: even begin to learn, which was to understand that she 219 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: was being taught and to understand that what she was 220 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: being taught was language, that things had words associated with them. 221 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: This was brand new to her because again she was 222 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: nineteen months old when she lost her sight in hearing, 223 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: so she hadn't learned this stuff yet. 224 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's astounding that this worked, quite frankly, 225 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: and it's due to hard work. And as we'll see 226 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: the fact that Helen Keller turns out was brilliant. So 227 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: she starts Tapa tap a tap into Helen's palm. Every 228 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: chance she gets, she'd hand her a doll, Tapa tapa 229 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: tapa doll. She gives her some water, Tapa tapa tapa 230 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: w a t e R. And like you said, you know, 231 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: for a while, Helen's probably like, what is this person doing? 232 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: Tapping on my hand all the time. Eventually she's doing 233 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: it so much she learns to associate, like, oh, when 234 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: I get water, I'm getting these same taps. And eventually 235 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: there's like a literal aha moment where she gets it 236 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: and she's like, wait a minute, I understand this person 237 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: is representing a word for the thing that I'm experiencing 238 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: by tapping into my palm. And she said it was. 239 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: She said, Helen's face lit up like it was a 240 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: complete revelation. 241 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, this very famously happened at a water pump. They 242 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: were on one of their outdoor walks or hikes, I guess, 243 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: and they came upon the water pump and she said, 244 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: somebody was pumping water and Anne stuck Helen's hand into 245 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: the stream of water coming out of the spout and 246 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: was tapping the same letters wat er and just kept 247 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: doing it over and over and over and over. And 248 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 2: that's what finally, Helen just put those things together, just clicked, 249 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: like you said. And there's a statue of her that 250 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: was unveiled in the Capitol rotunda in two thousand and nine, 251 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: and it is of her as an eight year old 252 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: girl standing at this water pump basically commemorating that incredibly 253 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: just moving moment, but also incredibly unlikely moment that she 254 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: got it. She just got it, and now she was 255 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: able to start to learn from there. 256 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: That's incredible. So it went really pretty quickly from that point. 257 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: She learned thirty words by the end of that day, 258 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: had a vocabulary of a few hundred words within a 259 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: few months. And by the time this started when she 260 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: was six and then to seven, by the time she 261 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: was eight, she had taught her to read words by feel. 262 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: She was writing. She was composing sentences and writing in 263 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: block letters, which is an astounding rate of speed considering 264 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: her scenario. And maybe that's a good time for a break. Yeah, 265 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: all right, we'll be right back. Things are off to 266 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: a really quick start, and we'll see what happens next 267 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: with Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan. 268 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, So, like you said, Anne Sullivan quickly figured 269 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: out that Helen Keller was a gifted child. She just 270 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: had to learn how to learn, and once she learned that, 271 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: she just took off. Like you said, by the time 272 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: she was a teenager, she was reading i think five 273 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: different languages, she wrote poetry, and she was in public speaking. 274 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: She did public speaking as a teenager and what's called 275 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: the Chattaquah Lecture Circuit, which was a movement to essentially 276 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: bring culture and interesting topics to people who lived in 277 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 2: rural areas who otherwise might not be exposed to that 278 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, to give them something to talk about. 279 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: And she lectured on the circuit. She appeared on the 280 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: circuit with Anne Sullivan as a teenager. I think before 281 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: this though, she made her way to the Perkins School 282 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 2: right for her formal education. 283 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, there were three kind of big things that followed 284 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: education wise, between what is that like eight years between 285 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: eighty eight and eighteen ninety six, she went to that 286 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: Perkin School like you talked about, got that formal education. 287 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: She also went to a specialist at the horse Man 288 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: School for the death so she could learned to speak. 289 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: And then the third one they moved to New York City. 290 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: So and you know, ends along every step of the 291 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: way as we'll see obviously, so Helen could go to 292 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: the right Humusin School for the Deaf where it would 293 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: continue to sort of improve her speaking and she could 294 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: learn to lip read. And this is like Sullivan's there. 295 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: Tapa Tapa Tapa every step of the way. When she 296 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: goes on the lecture circuit, she's tapping questions like during 297 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: Q and A, and then Helen would tap the questions 298 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: back to Sullivan and she would translate for the audience. 299 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: As we'll see, this would lead to some suspicion that 300 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: it was all just an act, which is, you know, 301 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: fairly upsetting because what they did was remarkable. But this 302 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: would all end up with Helen Keller eventually wanting to 303 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: go to college. 304 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just stepping back for just a second, you 305 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: mentioned how she learned to lip read, and that doesn't 306 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: make any sense because she could she was totally blind. 307 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 2: She lip read by putting her thumb on say Anne 308 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: Sullivan's voice box around like under her chin. She put 309 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: a finger on her lips and then put another finger 310 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 2: on her sinus cavity, and through feeling what the lips 311 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 2: were doing and the vibrations the vocal box was making, 312 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 2: she could discern essentially what the person was saying. That's 313 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 2: how she learned how to lip read, and eventually that's 314 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: one of the ways that she learned to talk, although 315 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 2: she found it a failing of her life that she 316 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 2: was never able to speak clearly enough that just a 317 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: stranger on the street could understand her. 318 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like I said, she want to go to college, 319 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: she goes to She want to go to Radcliffe. It's 320 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: the Harvard's sister school. And so Anne Sullivan arranges for 321 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: her to go to a prep school to get her 322 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: ready for this, for the entrance exams and again translating 323 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: all the curriculum, tapping out those lectures, tapping out the 324 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: books like reading basically to her into her hand and 325 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: then translating back to the teachers. She's there every step 326 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: of the way when she gets into and attends Radcliffe College, 327 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: where she eventually would graduate Kuum Laudie in nineteen oh 328 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: four as the very first person with deaf blindness to 329 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: earn a college degree. 330 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: And like you said, there were scoffers who were like, 331 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 2: what is this. There's this woman who's like helping her. 332 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 2: Is this really a thing? And like you said, it 333 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: is upsetting. But the amount of study and attention that 334 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: was paid to these too, there's just no way they 335 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: could have kept up a fraud like this for fifty years. 336 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: It's quite clearly settled that Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan 337 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: really did all the stuff that they were thought to do. 338 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. And we don't want to get into this, 339 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: but we just so we don't get emails, we will 340 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: mention that, just like this week, there is a really 341 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: idiotic TikTok trend that started among Generation Z where they 342 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: have put forth that Helen Keller did not even exist, 343 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: idiotic and ablests. And so the only reason we mentioned 344 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: is so we won't get emails about it, but we 345 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: don't want to talk more about that. 346 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, good point. So we should say that that Helen 347 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: Keller and Ann Sullivan by this time they weren't just 348 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: famous among deaf blind advocates or blind advocates or deaf 349 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: advocates or anything like that. They were in that circle. 350 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: They also were in academia because they were studied. But 351 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: by this time she's a teenager still, I think her 352 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 2: early twenties, after she graduates from Radcliffe, they're world famous. 353 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: Like everyone knows who Helen Keller and An Sullivan are. 354 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. I mean they knew the Rockefellers, they 355 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: knew Henry Ford, they had met with US presidents, They 356 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: met Charlie Chaplin when they would eventually film starring themselves 357 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: as themselves in movie Deliverance in nineteen eighteen. They knew 358 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Mark Twain the book and eventually play title and movie 359 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: title the Miracle Worker came from Mark Twain. He's the 360 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: one that coined that term when he wrote a letter 361 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: to Anne Sullivan calling her that. But all this to say, 362 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I think that put a strain on Anne Sullivan's marriage. 363 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: During this period, she got married to a guy named 364 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: John Macy. He was a Harvard professor and he actually 365 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: helped Helen Keller write the Story of My Life, her autobiography. 366 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: But they, you know, they were married for a little while. 367 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: The marriage didn't work out, and I think a lot 368 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: of it probably had to do with just their fame 369 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: and their travels, and it was it was just a 370 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: strain on the marriage. 371 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 2: It seemed like, yeah, apparently I saw a documentary called 372 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 2: Becoming Helen Keller. It was really good, but it crushed 373 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 2: Anne Sullivan when John Macy left. Yeah, and you know, 374 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 2: Helen grieved along with her. She said it took a 375 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 2: really long time. Helen like almost exclusively referred to Anne 376 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: as teacher. So she was like, it took it took 377 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 2: teacher a really long time to basically get over that 378 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 2: she may she may have never really gotten over it. 379 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 2: But they they were a pair again at this point, 380 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: so they were in a movie. As you said, Helen 381 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 2: learns very quickly, like I like being on stage. This 382 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 2: is kind of fun. It's a rush. She apparently could 383 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: feel the vibration in the floor and through the air 384 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 2: when and knew when the audience was clapping. 385 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, interestingly weaken since through the vibrations and 386 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: through the air when a stuff you should know, tour 387 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: show is forty percent full. 388 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: That's right, man, that's right. But she loved that. She 389 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 2: thrived on that and it energized her so cool. Yeah, 390 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: she really liked it. She was also one of her 391 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: things was they would demonstrate, you know, how she learned 392 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: and how she communicated through Anne, but she would deliver 393 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 2: in like these these demonstrations, like inspirational messages. This is 394 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: the kind of message she's decided to take to the world. 395 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: Rather than like get a load of me, She's like, 396 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: you're paying me all this attention. Why don't you pay 397 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: attention to yourself and how great you can be too. 398 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 2: At the same time, she was shining a massive spotlight 399 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: on how few opportunities the disabled community in the United 400 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: States and around the world had at the time, and 401 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: she was directly responsible for changing those attitudes. 402 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: So by the time they hit the stage for real 403 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: and go on the vaudeville circuit, which is not something 404 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: I knew until we did this kind of research, it 405 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: was pretty amazing. They had a third member of their group. 406 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: Their star risen so much they were like, we need 407 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: an assistant, yea, and so they hired Polly Thompson in 408 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, and they were known as the Three Musketeers. 409 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: So now they were a trio traveling around on the 410 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: vaudeville circuit. They had a three act act where they 411 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: told their story. They did a twenty minute bit where 412 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: Anne had a monologue sort of giving you the background. 413 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: It was almost like a live podcast looking at it. 414 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: Keller would come in and demonstrate the process, like how 415 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: she learned to speak. They would kind of show people 416 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: how it happened, say some of those inspirational words like 417 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: you were talking about and then obviously with a translating 418 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: she would do a little Q and A. This sounds 419 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: a lot like our show, actually it is. 420 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were using the Helen Keller model of live shows. 421 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, except hers was sold out with rowing audiences. 422 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were performing in front of thousands and thousands 423 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: of people. 424 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 425 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: One of the things that Q and A there's a 426 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: list that they compiled, and this list was compiled after 427 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 2: they retired from vaudeville, so like these were they documented 428 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 2: questions and answers that they'd gotten. And one of the ones, 429 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: so there's one, what's your definition of politics? Was the 430 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: question one of the audience members asked, and Helen said, 431 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: the art of promising one thing and doing another. 432 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: Very famous, saying. 433 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: I saw another one too. Can you feel moons shine? 434 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: You know, like she could feel sunshine and she says no, 435 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 2: but I can smell it. 436 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: I saw that coming, So. 437 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: I mean like she was a great wit. And it's 438 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: like Anne Sullivan was translating this. Remember whenever we're talking 439 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 2: about like Helen Keller saying something or doing something, Ann 440 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 2: Sullivan is standing there holding her hand, tapping into her hand. 441 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: Like even though she learned braille and how to write 442 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: in block letters and all that, that was still a 443 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: chief form of communication. Because Anne Sullivan was so good 444 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 2: at essentially translating in real time what was going on. 445 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: Just say it once what Tapa, tapa, tapa. 446 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: I can't do it as good as you. It keeps 447 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: cracking me up every time you do. 448 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: So they eventually get off the vaudeville circuit in nineteen 449 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: twenty two. So they had a good run of a 450 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: handful of years. Anne was tired. Basically she was, you know, 451 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: older than Helen, and so she kind of lost the 452 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: pizaz for it. So they went home for the rest 453 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: of the nineteen twenties. They still lectured, they still traveled, 454 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: they still did lobbying and then fundraising and stuff like that. 455 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: Obviously working with all the causes you might expect, like 456 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: the American Foundation for the Blind. Also became very socially active, 457 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: and we'll talk at the end of you know, a 458 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: little bit about Helen Keller's later work as a social activist, 459 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: which was pretty vast. But they were traveling all over 460 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: the world at this point and everyone loved them. Maybe 461 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: we should take a break, though, because you know, like 462 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: every story of every great partnership, it was a little 463 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: more complicated than it might seem on the surface. Yeah, right, 464 00:26:37,960 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: we'll be right back, all right, So we promised talk 465 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: nothing salacious or anything like that. 466 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: No thankfully. 467 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: But you know, anytime you're working that closely with someone 468 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: over that many years, there're going to be some you know, 469 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: it can get complicated. And it was complicated for them 470 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: except with us, Yeah exactly. I mean they were lifelong partners, 471 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: but they were reliant on each other in a way 472 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: that maybe wasn't always the healthiest for either of them. 473 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: Like Helen wanted to get married when she was in 474 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: her mid thirties. She was engaged to a journalist named 475 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: Peter Fagan, but Anne didn't think she should, and so 476 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: she got together with her parents, who also didn't think 477 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: that she should, and they kept her from getting married. 478 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a quote from Helen who basically publicly 479 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: embraced that decision and was like, yeah, that was the 480 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: right decision. She said, love makes us blind. 481 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: Man. 482 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: She was sharp, she was super sharp. I'm seriously go 483 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 2: watch that for everybody. Go watch but Becoming Helen Keller 484 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: Think is about an hour and a half and it 485 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: is a really great documentary. 486 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: So, you know, I mentioned not healthy for either of them. 487 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: So Helen was dependent on Anne. Obviously, Anne was also 488 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 1: dependent on Helen because Helen was the one who had 489 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: the benefactors, and you know, they weren't cutting checks to 490 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Anne Sullivan. They were sort of helping to support Helen 491 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: Keller because everybody loved her and everyone wanted, you know, 492 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: a little piece of her by helping you know, out 493 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: with finances. But Anne was basically dependent on Helen financially 494 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: her entire life. 495 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, because, I mean they both made their money on 496 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 2: the vaudeville circuit and lectures. But Helen's books were pretty 497 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: especially The Story of My Life, her first autobiography. She 498 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: ended up writing fourteen books. Chuck, Yeah, it's incredible, but 499 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: it was a really widely read, big best selling novel, 500 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 2: So she definitely made money off of her books, and 501 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: I mean, Anne was just part of it. So I 502 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: don't think Helen ever held any of that over her head. 503 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: But she couldn't just be like, all right, so long, Helen, 504 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: good luck. I'm gonna go enjoy the good life eating caviare. 505 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, we did talk a little 506 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: bit about the controversy of people poopooing them at the time, 507 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: but we should say kind of specifically that like Radcliffe 508 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: didn't it seems like they begrudgingly let her into the 509 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: school right, and there were some snobs there that you know, 510 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: one of the quotes was, we should just say outright 511 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: that miss Sullivan is entering Radcliffe instead of Helen Keller, 512 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: a blind, deaf and dumb girl. So I just we 513 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: only mentioned that because it happened. It's really awful, because 514 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: what they did was nothing short of well miraculous. 515 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and even earlier than that, Chuck, I saw that 516 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the people who were the heads of 517 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: the Perkins School were essentially supported a smear campaign that 518 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: they were frauds because they felt that Anne Sullivan's success overshadowed, 519 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: you know, the wor that the Perkins School had done 520 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: in educating Helen Keller. They weren't getting enough credit essentially, right. 521 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 2: And then also there was a lot of classism to 522 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: it too, because these were wealthy benefactors who started the 523 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: school and ran it and Anne Sullivan was a poor 524 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: Irish girl who came from the bottom rung of society 525 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 2: at the time. Yeah, so what could she do? So yeah, 526 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: they were smeared like throughout their life. And they were 527 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: both aware of this, like this wasn't like kept from them. 528 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: They were two sharp women, so they knew that this 529 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: was everything that they did was questioned and they knew it. 530 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: But rather than shout back of their critics or whatever, 531 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: they just did more and more and proved over and 532 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: over again that this was a this was all legitimate. 533 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: That's what makes this story so wonderful. Is it actually happened. 534 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: And when you stop and think about what's actually going 535 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: on here, just past the narrative, it's like, I've become 536 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: an enormous fan of Helen Keller and At Sullivan. Just FYI. 537 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Your stan Yeah, I guess so. I love it. I 538 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: am too. I saw that Miracle Worker when I was 539 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: a kid, so it had a big impact on me 540 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: as a ute. 541 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: I've got it coming up. 542 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. Patty Duke fantastic. Yeah. 543 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: And Anne Bancroft, right, Yeah, they walk alike and they 544 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: talked alike. 545 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: So in the nineteen thirties, this is when Ann Sullivan's 546 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: health takes a turn for the worst. You know, she 547 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: had a tough go of it. She never had like 548 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: the best of health, but in the nineteen thirties it 549 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: really went downhill. She had completely lost her sight by 550 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five, and in nineteen thirty six she died 551 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: from a coordinary thrombosis. Helen Keller was right there holding 552 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: her hand. I can't imagine what she was tapping. Hopefully 553 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: that was between them and she was. Anne Sullivan was 554 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: the first woman to have her ashes interred at the 555 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: Washington National Cathedral. Wow, and was eventually laid to rest 556 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: at the Chapel of Saint Joseph of Arimathea in. 557 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: The in the National Cathedral. That's right, that's amazing. It 558 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 2: gets even better, as you'll see. This was a huge, 559 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: huge blow to Helen because she lost her best friend, 560 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: she lost her teacher, remember she always referred to as teacher, 561 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: and she lost her her first and probably strongest bridge 562 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 2: to the outside world. Fortunately, Polly had been around for 563 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: more than twenty years now, so she was more than 564 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: capable of stepping in and being the bridge between Helen 565 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: and the rest of the world after Anne died. So 566 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: it's not like Helen was, you know, just bereft. She 567 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: was just grief stricken. And one other thing too. There's 568 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 2: a New Yorker article from nineteen thirty called Helen Keller 569 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: at forty nine, and it's just this profile on her 570 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 2: while she's still living, and it's a really good, like 571 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: just a peek into her regular life. But she fed herself, 572 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 2: she did her own she dressed herself. She was very, 573 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: very independent. But when she was trying to communicate with somebody, 574 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: she had to have another person because other people couldn't 575 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: understand her. And then one other thing, Chuck, I realized, 576 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: I'm on a tie rate here. But the reason she 577 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: couldn't express herself in other ways is because she didn't 578 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 2: know sign language, because there was a movement at the 579 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 2: time that sign language was not a valid way of 580 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: communicating that everyone, including people who couldn't speak, needed to 581 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: learn how to speak. That was the only way of 582 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: communicating that was legitimate. So she needed somebody to translate 583 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 2: for her because she could never get that down pat 584 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: And like I said, her inability to do that haunted 585 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: her like a great life failing essentially, which is very sad. 586 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, super sad. There is some kind of kind of 587 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: light here in the form of a trip that she 588 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: took and wanted Helen. There had been an invitation before 589 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: and died from the Nippon Lighthouse in Japan to do 590 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: a speaking tour there, and Helen didn't want to leave 591 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: Anne behind because she was in poorth health at the time. 592 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: Apparently in Japan then about one point five percent of 593 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: their death and or blind citizens didn't were not able 594 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: to be educated or you didn't have access to that. 595 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 1: And so after Anne died, Helen honored her by going 596 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: to Japan and completing that trip with Polly as her companion. 597 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: They went to thirty three cities in ten weeks, spoke 598 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: in front of about a million people, and the next year, 599 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: clearly as a result of this, Japan started expanding their 600 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: public services for education and their accessibility programs for people 601 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: with all sorts of other abilities. 602 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: You said that Helen Keller went to Japan in nineteen 603 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 2: thirty eight. She went again in nineteen forty eight after 604 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: World War Two and was essentially the first ambassador to 605 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 2: begin healing between the United States and Pan after she 606 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 2: toured Hiroshima and came back and told everybody what she 607 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 2: saw nice. 608 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: So I think it was like a few decades that 609 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,439 Speaker 1: Helen Keller went on after Ann Sulliman passed. She lived 610 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: all the way till nineteen sixty eight, which I don't 611 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: think I knew she passed away on June first. I'm 612 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: kind of in her sleep. In nineteen sixty eight and 613 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: she was laid to rest with Anne Ann Polly, who 614 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: died eight years previous, at Washington National Cathedral, so that trio, 615 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: the Three Musketeers lived together in perpetuity, which is super sweet. 616 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is super sweet. And you mentioned The Miracle 617 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 2: Worker with Patty Duke and An Bankroft. They both won 618 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: Academy Awards for it. It's just a again, I haven't 619 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 2: seen it, but it's just this beloved story. It's great, 620 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 2: and it basically ends after she starts to learn, right, 621 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: like she's a young girl the whole time. 622 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, I mean I was a kid, So I 623 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: can't remember if there's like a coda or anything like that, 624 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: but it's yeah, it's about their sort of early days together. 625 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: And certainly, I mean there's more movies to be made. 626 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: If someone wanted to make a movie about her activism 627 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,359 Speaker 1: later in life, that would be really something, right. 628 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, we should talk about that because there's a narrative 629 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,720 Speaker 2: that formed around her that everybody wanted, which was Helen 630 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 2: Keller was this angelic, pure girl who overcame incredible odds 631 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 2: and proves that if you work hard enough, you can 632 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: accomplish anything. And she realized that that's what people wanted. 633 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 2: So that's kind of the part that she acted publicly. 634 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 2: But this was after she had tried to take the 635 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: limelight that she was in and cast it on a 636 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 2: bunch of different social movements that she was genuinely involved 637 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: in and like, genuinely cared about. There was a bunch 638 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 2: of them actually, So even after she kind of stopped 639 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 2: talking about the publicly, she was still involved in this 640 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 2: stuff for the rest of her life. 641 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, she was involved in the civil 642 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 1: rights movement fifty years before the Civil Rights era, during 643 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era. And you know, as you pointed out, 644 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: she was an Alabama kid whose dad was a Confederate officer, 645 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: and they didn't they didn't like her doing this stuff. 646 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: Not not her parents necessarily, but just people and other 647 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: family in Alabama. They didn't like it. They didn't like 648 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: that she was working with the NAACP. She was a 649 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: founding member of the ACLU and also a staunch socialist 650 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: and borderline communist at one point. 651 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was a member of the Socialist Party and 652 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: she appeared at rallies with Ann and then she found 653 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 2: that the Socialists weren't effective enough in defending workers' rights, 654 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: so she joined up with the Industrial Workers of the World, 655 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 2: which was more radical, contained lots of anarchists, and it 656 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: was like if being a socialist was a scandalist, like 657 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 2: being a wobbly was like really scandalous, and she was. 658 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: She was a card carrying member. She was also hugely 659 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 2: into women's rights. She was a suffragist because remember she 660 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 2: was very active before women even had the right to 661 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: vote in the US and I believe the UK. And 662 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 2: she also talked publicly about stuff that you weren't supposed 663 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 2: to talk about, but for really important reasons. 664 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean, who's going to tell Helen Keller 665 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: to stifle you know? 666 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Like she got away part of a 667 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 2: lot of stuff that someone who wasn't deaf, blind would 668 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 2: have not gotten away with. 669 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, she would talk about birth control and 670 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: public way before anyone would venereal diseases, for sure, especially gonorrhea, 671 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: because that at the time would cause blindness and infants 672 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: when a mother would pass it along at birth. And 673 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: so she was in like the pages of Ladies Home 674 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: Journal in the forties and fifties talking about rates of 675 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: blindness because of gonorrhea and that's just not the kind 676 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: of thing that appeared in those kind of magazs scenes 677 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: at the time. 678 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 2: No, And there's one other thing, being a women's rights advocate. 679 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: She's she had a quote that I saw in that documentary. 680 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: It was women's inferiority is a man made issue. Man. 681 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: She's just like a T shirt factory. 682 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: So let's yeah, nice, yeah, well let's make that a 683 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 2: stuff you should know T shirt huh. 684 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, give her credit, of course, yeah, yeah, 685 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: yeah dot dot Josh Clark. 686 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 2: Right, so, I mean, chuck, she couldn't possibly get any 687 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: better than this, right. 688 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean could she? She could have something else? 689 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 2: I do. I have two things. One, she loved dogs. 690 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 2: She always had a dog. In fact, when she was 691 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: living in Queen's later in life she had eight of them. 692 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 2: That's great in and of itself. But in the lead 693 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 2: up to World War Two, her sure books have been 694 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 2: translated into German and they didn't like that. The Nazi 695 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 2: part didn't like it. So her books were among some 696 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 2: of the ones chosen to be burned at Nazi rallies. 697 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: That's a that's a feather in your cat. 698 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 2: Heck, yeah it is. 699 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: So she was like to think that we'd have our 700 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: book burned. 701 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: I would like to think so too. Yeah, so she 702 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 2: was this amazing person that all of this other stuff 703 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 2: just gets overlooked because again, her story typically stops at 704 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 2: that water pump after she gets it right. And she 705 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: just led this incredibly full, rich life. What I guess 706 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,720 Speaker 2: she was like eighty years old when she died. And yeah, 707 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: Susan is an a genuinely amazing person. 708 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: I think Josh Clark is a crush. 709 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 2: Maybe you're a smitten kitten. I am Tapa Tapa Tapa. 710 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: Oh there we go. 711 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 2: Uh you got anything else? No, sir, Okay, that's it 712 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 2: for Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan and Polly Thompson. And 713 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: let me say one other thing, chuck, because it's not 714 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 2: talked about, like is just a matter of course. She 715 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: wrote her own stuff after like later in life, using 716 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,720 Speaker 2: Braille typewriters. So I mean she was just as fully 717 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 2: competent person. I'm just going to keep adding facts until 718 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 2: you start listener mail. 719 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: Hey guys, I love your show on data centers. I 720 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: was giving you one more chance. 721 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 2: Helen Keller was essentially a walking data center. 722 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,439 Speaker 1: People. But want to let you know people working from 723 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: remote locations using IBM terminals actually happened in the early 724 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,959 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and I was one of them. I worked 725 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: remotely from home writing my dissertation in nineteen eighty three. 726 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: My equipment was an IBM thirty thirty computer terminal, a 727 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: twelve hundred BAWD phone modem, a mainframe housed at a 728 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: remote location, in my case at Phillips North America, New 729 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: York City. The software I used was an IBM pro 730 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: called Script. I think I remember Script actually programs like 731 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, it's like I'm pre word perfect. 732 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm floppy disks right, Yeah, it had to be. 733 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: It was before word perfect would come into common usage. 734 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: But Script was basically using one step up from machine language. 735 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: For example, if you wanted to indent for a new paragraph, 736 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: you would type the period I N five to make it, 737 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, indent five spaces, or for double space it 738 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: was period. It looks like LL two and so on 739 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: for all formatting. If it sounds primitive and cumbersome, it was, 740 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: but far better than an electric typewriter, as you could 741 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: correct anything without using wide out. So it was progress 742 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: in a sense and actually saved a huge amount of 743 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: time for me. So it was long before two thousand 744 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: and eight that people got to work remotely, though it 745 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: was rather primitive. Thanks for another great episode that is 746 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: from Danielle Greenberg. 747 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 2: Very nice, Danielle. 748 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty funny. 749 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 2: It was funny antiquated, I guess is what you call 750 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,720 Speaker 2: it today, Danielle. 751 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 1: Right, that's right. 752 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 2: Thanks again, Danielle. And if you want to be like 753 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 2: Danielle and send us a great email that takes us 754 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 2: down memory lane in some ways, you can do that, 755 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 2: send it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 756 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 757 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 758 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.