1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,440
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:18,639
Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of I Heart Radio and

3
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: it's time for another female first, which means we are

4
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 1: once again thrilled to be joined by the amazing, fantastic Eaves.

5
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 1: Welcome you. Hello, Hello, Hi, how are you? How have

6
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,879
Speaker 1: you been? I am doing very well. I don't know

7
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,520
Speaker 1: what to say. It's hide outside. I'm trying to stay

8
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,199
Speaker 1: you know, outside as much as possible without melting mm hmm.

9
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,199
Speaker 1: Has been possible so far, so I'm excited about that.

10
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,400
Speaker 1: But you know, wow, that's a skill. How have you

11
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,520
Speaker 1: been pulling it off pretty well? You know, I mean

12
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: staying in the shade a lot. I was. I was

13
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: like outside in the car yesterday saying, how this feels impossible,

14
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: Like I am not even that close to the equator

15
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: and this is that far away from me, and it's

16
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 1: this hot. It doesn't really make any sense. But you know,

17
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna. I was saying, I prefer this to

18
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: being cold. But I feel like that also that has

19
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 1: a little bit more meaning because of climate change a

20
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: certain direction. So I had to double I had to

21
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:27,199
Speaker 1: think about that again for a second. Yeah, I mean true, true,

22
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,319
Speaker 1: I've been like the opposite. I prefer the cold, and

23
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: I've gone outside very very little, um, which makes me

24
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,320
Speaker 1: sad because I do love going outside. I mean, I'll

25
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,319
Speaker 1: be out there for like a minute and I know,

26
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 1: what is this? Go back inside does not compute? M hmmmmmm.

27
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,600
Speaker 1: What about you, Savantha, what are your Yeah? Well, I'm

28
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 1: on the same lines with as. I don't want to

29
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: say it too loudly either, because I feel like when

30
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: we do, especially in Georgia, the climates really test you. Like, yeah,

31
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,560
Speaker 1: you think you want to be warm, but hut. But

32
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: as we speak, I'm a little cool right now, to

33
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 1: the point that I'm like, where's my blanket? Which I

34
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: have are all year long in my office, so you know.

35
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 1: But yes, it's definitely been, um one of those times

36
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, but I don't love sweating either,

37
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 1: So which is it. It's a delicate balance. It's a

38
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 1: delicate balance for sure. Well. I am very very excited

39
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: to talk about who brought today. He's this very compelling story.

40
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: But before we get into it, I'm just curious where

41
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 1: you bothly on like the singing scale, Like how do

42
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,359
Speaker 1: you rate yourself? Do you enjoy singing. Did you ever

43
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,840
Speaker 1: think you're going to be a singer, Samantha, Do you

44
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,519
Speaker 1: want to go that's funny as our listeners pretty much? No,

45
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 1: I do love to just randomly sing. Do I think

46
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm great at it? No? Do I think I can

47
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,160
Speaker 1: hit a tune? And am I okay with harmonizing? Yes,

48
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: that's how I would keep it. Did I think I

49
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,639
Speaker 1: could be a star once upon a time, especially when

50
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,799
Speaker 1: you know Whitney came out with her Bodyguard soundtrack, I'm like, yeah,

51
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 1: I definitely could hit these notes. By the way, I

52
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 1: could not. I could not, but I really wanted to

53
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: try at that point in time, um and had those

54
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: small dreams and like, maybe I could be a singer.

55
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,359
Speaker 1: At least I could do the harmony, the background vocals,

56
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,959
Speaker 1: but that's about it. And yeah, now that I'm getting older,

57
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, yeah, I definitely couldn't do that.

58
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 1: I think singers are really amazing, and I'm all honestly

59
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,800
Speaker 1: just so often astonished at how many people can sing.

60
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 1: But it's not their careers. But I can blow people

61
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,600
Speaker 1: out of the water when it comes to singing. I

62
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: am not one of those people. I took chorus for

63
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: about a year or something like that in elementary school.

64
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: And I honestly have no idea why I was in it.

65
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 1: I think it was probably just because my mom put

66
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: me in it. But I wasn't particularly great at singing,

67
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: and I think that I can hold a note decently well.

68
00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 1: But I know that I don't have it because I've

69
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 1: heard people plenty of people who have it, and I

70
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,120
Speaker 1: got whatever that is. Um. So yeah, I sing in

71
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: the shower, I sing along with songs like I sing

72
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: in the car. I love singing like it feels great,

73
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: it feels expressive, and I like the way it makes

74
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 1: me feel. And sometimes I will even record myself singing

75
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 1: and listen him back to it and say, do I

76
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: sound like I think I sound? Because I'm always very

77
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 1: curious because I feel like I sound okay, but do

78
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 1: I have So I'll do that. Sometimes I'm like, okay,

79
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 1: that's how I feel about it, this basically okay, and

80
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,840
Speaker 1: then I'll move ali. So No, definitely, not any significant

81
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,600
Speaker 1: or noteworthy history of singing in my life. I love that.

82
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,840
Speaker 1: I too. I like singing like in the car around

83
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 1: the house. I love a good karaoke. Um. I don't

84
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,839
Speaker 1: think I'm very good but I have fun. I used

85
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,279
Speaker 1: to think. I used to think when I was a

86
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,080
Speaker 1: kid that I was a good singer and I was

87
00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 1: singing in the shower in a bit like oh, this

88
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 1: melodious voice. Now I don't think that. So I'm wondering

89
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,440
Speaker 1: if that's a shift in confidence or like perception. Like

90
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I was like, oh, yeah,

91
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm good and now like, let's temper the truth differ

92
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 1: with the truth. I don't know. Um, I mean I

93
00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,919
Speaker 1: but I never I used to think I could be

94
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 1: like a big time actor. I never thought I could

95
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: be a singer. There was never a moment where I

96
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 1: was like, I'm that good, but I did. I was

97
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,080
Speaker 1: jealous of it. I was really jealous of people who

98
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,599
Speaker 1: could sing. And I had friends and could just yeah,

99
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,359
Speaker 1: they would nail it, and they made it look so easy,

100
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,840
Speaker 1: Like why can't I do that. It's a talent, it's

101
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,239
Speaker 1: a skill. Um, but yeah, I do enjoy it. Well,

102
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: all right, now that we've got our past and experiences

103
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: out of the way, who did you bring for us

104
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 1: to discuss Today's Today we will be talking about Cissy

105
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: Auretta Jones, and that's why we were talking about singing

106
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,160
Speaker 1: because she was an amazing singer, and even so, there

107
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 1: were still a lot of people who criticized the way

108
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,159
Speaker 1: she's sang or her Olydian singing. But she was the

109
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 1: first Black American woman to headline a concert at Carnegie Hall.

110
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 1: So we'll be going through her history. It was long,

111
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: it lasted many decades, and it was very storied, and

112
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: she traveled a lot. She toured a lot, So I'm

113
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 1: excited to talk about her today. She is, like so

114
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 1: many of the people we talked about on other episodes

115
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 1: of Female First, a person who's popularity or interest has

116
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 1: waned over the years posthumously after her death. During the

117
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,280
Speaker 1: time she was alive, she had a lot, a lot

118
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 1: of fame in many places around the world, but her

119
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 1: notoriety after she died did wayne a little bit, and

120
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: then she came back into the view um of the

121
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 1: mainstream in certain ways. So yeah, I'm excited to talk

122
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 1: about her and share her story with everyone. Yes, yes, um,

123
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,719
Speaker 1: we're very excited to hear it too, And I'm glad

124
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,200
Speaker 1: she's getting more attention lately because it was just she

125
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,360
Speaker 1: did so much and it was just kind of tragic

126
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,440
Speaker 1: that Yes disappeared and you can't find any recordings yeah

127
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 1: of her. Um, So I'm glad people are some people

128
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: have been just fighting for so long, like do not

129
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: forget this person, not forget what she did. And I'm

130
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 1: glad more and more people are like catching on and

131
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 1: hearing this story and you have brought it to share

132
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 1: even more. So Yeah, thanks me happy. Yeah, Yes, shout

133
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 1: out to all the biographers who do the heart work

134
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: of making sure that these people's names stand people's minds

135
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: and in people's hearts every year. So really grateful for

136
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: all of them, obviously, So we'll get into her story.

137
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: She was born Matilda Sierreta Joiner in Portsmouth, Virginia, not

138
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,360
Speaker 1: long after the end of the Civil War in eighteen

139
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,720
Speaker 1: sixty eight or sixty nine. She was the oldest of

140
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: three children born to her parents, but her siblings die

141
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: when they were very young. Her father was Jeremiah Malchai Joiner,

142
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: and he was born into slavery in North Carolina, and

143
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 1: when she was born, he was a carpenter and a

144
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,400
Speaker 1: pastor as well as a choir leader at a church.

145
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: Her mother was named Henrietta, and she did laundry and

146
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: she sang in the choir as well. And she was

147
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 1: also from North Carolina. In her early life, Cecierretta was

148
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 1: called Matilda her first name, and also called Sissy, and

149
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: they moved to Providence, Rhode Island, to the east side

150
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 1: of the city. Not long after they moved to Providence,

151
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: though Henrietta and Jeremiah did stop living together. Henrietta was

152
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: played a huge role in Ceiretta's upbringing and they made

153
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: money by doing laundry and she would iron in her home,

154
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 1: and around eighteen eighty nine, the Csiretta's parents divorced, but

155
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: she was already singing at a young age. She sang

156
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: at school and at work, and as a teenager she

157
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,440
Speaker 1: began attending the Providence Academy of Music. Pretty early on,

158
00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,439
Speaker 1: she married David Richard Jones, who was a hotel porter.

159
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,800
Speaker 1: That was eighteen eighty three when they married, and marriage

160
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 1: records said that she was eighteen and he was twenty four,

161
00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: but they were likely both a few years younger than that,

162
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 1: and in April of eighteen eighty four, their daughter, Mabel

163
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:18,079
Speaker 1: was born, so she Cecaretta began singing at more church

164
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 1: concerts and performing with groups here and there. In eighty five,

165
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,320
Speaker 1: she performed with Flora Batson, who was another big name

166
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: in the singing community. She was a well known black

167
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,440
Speaker 1: concert singer, and Jones also sang a solo and a

168
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: play featuring black actor John A. R No as King

169
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 1: Richard the Third that year, and later that year it

170
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 1: was kind of a big deal when she sang in

171
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 1: a concert at the Providence Music Hall starring Marie Selca

172
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 1: or Selca, I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce that

173
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 1: part of her name, but she was a black vocalist,

174
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: and she also had a first. She was the first

175
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,840
Speaker 1: black artist to sing at the White House. But sadly,

176
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 1: Jones's daughter, Mabel did die when she was two years old,

177
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 1: which had an emotional toll on her and affected how

178
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: she showed up for her career. But she did go

179
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,400
Speaker 1: back to singing and she performed more with Flora Batson,

180
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 1: and she studied may have studied either at the Boston

181
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 1: Conservatory of Music or the New England Conservatory of Music,

182
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 1: but it does seem like she studied in Boston in

183
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 1: the late eighteen eighties. So she had a concert tour

184
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 1: starting in early eighteen eight for cities in the New

185
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,599
Speaker 1: England area, and she signed a contract with a management

186
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,600
Speaker 1: firm called Abbey Shuffle and grow. I feel like my

187
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 1: German is in My German is not the best, so

188
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,400
Speaker 1: police forgive me for that. She went on a tour

189
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 1: of the Caribbean and South America with the company of

190
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: black American singers called the Tennessee Jubilee Singers. So this

191
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 1: is she's still very young, but she's already doing a

192
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 1: lot of traveling with her singing career and getting really

193
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,079
Speaker 1: invested involved in it and working with a lot of

194
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 1: different people. Um. And it's unclear who was the very

195
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 1: first person to call her this, but several newspapers didn't

196
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: refer to her as black Potty, and those newspapers said

197
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: that her managers called her black potty, which, um, I

198
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: wasn't there, But to have my manager called me by

199
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,520
Speaker 1: some weird personification of somebody else, I just feel like

200
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: that's very strange in practice. But apparently that's what those

201
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: newspapers said. This was a reference to Adelina Patti, who

202
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 1: was a really popular opera singer in the nineteenth century,

203
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 1: and they called Jones that. For the rest of her career.

204
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: You'll see this referred to in articles about her and

205
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: in advertisements about the work that she was doing her

206
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 1: being called the black potty, and she even referred to

207
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 1: herself as that, But she did say that she didn't

208
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,959
Speaker 1: care for the moniker um. She said in the Detroit

209
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,960
Speaker 1: Evening News quote, I am afraid people will think I

210
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,959
Speaker 1: consider myself the equal of Patty herself. I assure you

211
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 1: I do not think so. But I have a voice,

212
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: and I am striving to win the favor of the

213
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 1: public by honest merit and heart work. Perhaps someday I

214
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 1: may be as great in my way, but that is

215
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,600
Speaker 1: a long way of hit, a long way ahead. So

216
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 1: she was pretty gracious about that back then, even though

217
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 1: she's commented on that moniker more later in life and

218
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: was just like, that's not for me. I didn't put

219
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 1: that on myself, but I got it. But she seemed

220
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: to accept it pretty gracefully, even though we've talked about

221
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 1: before our female first my disdame for this weird using

222
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: these these names to refer to somebody else of a

223
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,079
Speaker 1: different race, to say, yere of this race. But yeah,

224
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 1: so it was. It was something that was attached to

225
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 1: her and that lasted and worked well for branding. So um,

226
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 1: we know how important that is. Some other critics didn't

227
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 1: care for the name either, and that was for various reasons,

228
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: Like some of it was more from the direction that

229
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 1: he was coming from, like I don't I don't need that,

230
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: I don't need this weird comparison to another race. But

231
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: some people also thought that she didn't measure up to

232
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: Adolina Patti, or there was no need to draw those comparisons,

233
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,560
Speaker 1: or even that like she wasn't black. So while we

234
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,320
Speaker 1: call her black, she's quote unquote mulatto, some would say.

235
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: So there are various reasons people thought this, but the

236
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 1: black potty is one thing that people caught her. So

237
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: she and her husband, along with the company went to

238
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 1: Jamaica in August of eight as the first stop on

239
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,319
Speaker 1: their six month tour. They played in Panama, Barbados, Trinidad,

240
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: what was then British Guyana, Antigua, and St. Kits and

241
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: other places, and the audiences of these shows were mixed

242
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 1: when it came to race, and reportedly the manager made

243
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 1: some somewhere around four thousand dollars off of the tour.

244
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 1: And minstrel shows were a thing at this time associated

245
00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 1: with black face and this kind of silly performance on stage,

246
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 1: um caricatures and things like that, But she did perform

247
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 1: and Menstrell show sometimes and her first was probably in nine.

248
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,719
Speaker 1: By that point, her husband David was helping move her

249
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: career for a lot as her manager. But yeah, so

250
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,119
Speaker 1: he will come up over the years as being involved

251
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: in the work that she did, booking her shows, going

252
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 1: with her on tours, although that relationship did sour the

253
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 1: personal relationship as well as that professional relationship, and Secretta,

254
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 1: as part of another troop, later went back to the

255
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 1: Caribbean and to South America, visiting places like Haiti, Cuba, Granada,

256
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: and St. Thomas. But this time was a little bit

257
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: different than the other time. Her husband and a black

258
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 1: woman who was a former newspaper reporter named Florence Williams

259
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 1: managed the tour. Reports of their shows overseas were sent

260
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: back to the States and that helped grow her reputation

261
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 1: in and she talked about how she had gotten all

262
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: of these gifts from people around the world and the

263
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: countries that she visited. So this one thing that comes

264
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: up in her story a lot is a tear that

265
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: she got with diamonds in it. She got money, she

266
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 1: got gold medals and various gyms, and you can although

267
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: we don't have recordings of her. Everybody can go look

268
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: at pictures of her own line. They do exist, many

269
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 1: of them, and they're really fun to look at because

270
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: she looks very grand, she looks very regal, and a

271
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 1: lot of the pictures because she's wearing these long, flowing

272
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 1: gowns and dramatic capes, and in she you can also

273
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 1: see her wearing all of her medals, which is it

274
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 1: feels like the ultimate flex to me for her to

275
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 1: put all of her medals on her chest and take

276
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 1: a picture like that. But it's just reflective of this

277
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: part of her history that we're reading about and learning

278
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: about and hearing like she got all these medals, which

279
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 1: can sound very like we're trying to impress a certain

280
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 1: thing upon her biography that wasn't necessarily there. But she

281
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: really did get these medals, and she showed that she

282
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 1: got these medals, and there's actual documentation of that that

283
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 1: we can see today, so I think that's pretty cool.

284
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: But anyway, all of this happened by the time she

285
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 1: was in her early twenties, just her context, so she

286
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,880
Speaker 1: was doing a lot and going a lot of places,

287
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 1: clearly working very hard. In two she's sang at the

288
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,640
Speaker 1: White House for President Benjamin Harrison, and she reportedly sang

289
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: at the White House for later presidents as well. That

290
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: same year, she was in an event called the Grand

291
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 1: Negro to Believe at Madison Square Garden. It was in

292
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: a large venue, it had this mixed race audiences, and

293
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: she appeared as this prima donna in the show, and

294
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 1: she garnered a lot of us attention for it. She

295
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 1: later said about this appearance, quote, I woke up famous

296
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: after singing at the Garden and didn't know it. So

297
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: this clearly was a pivotal point in her story and

298
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: her becoming this little kind of larger than my figure

299
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 1: that she became. So in June, she and her husband

300
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: signed a contract with the manager named James B. Pond.

301
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 1: So that contract was supposed to be lucrative, paying her

302
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,159
Speaker 1: more than six thousand dollars a year, which would be

303
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: around two hundred thousand dollars today. So that is obviously

304
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 1: a large sum of money for then and for today,

305
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,439
Speaker 1: like and she was one of the highest paid entertainers

306
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: of her time black black American of black Americans. So

307
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,119
Speaker 1: that same month she was featured as a soprano and

308
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 1: in all Black performance at Carnegie Hall. Um, And there

309
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: are a lot of quotes about her voice. Obviously, we

310
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 1: can't hear it, and there's only so much that we

311
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,479
Speaker 1: can get out of words trying to represent what her

312
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: voice sounded like. But a lot of those quotes do

313
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: tend to mention how great her enunciation was. Like, even

314
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: if those people who were writing about her were hating

315
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 1: on her and didn't really care for her performance, they

316
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 1: were like, oh, her enunciation was really great. And some

317
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: of them would compare her voice to angels and birds,

318
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: which is an obvious comparison because the song birds exist,

319
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 1: so it makes sense. Um, But yeah, so um. They

320
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 1: also mentioned her manner and speaking to people. They would

321
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 1: say things like she's very lovely and that she is

322
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: a good conversationalist. So apparently people did take pretty well

323
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: to her demeanor outside of the stage. But that makes

324
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 1: sense as well, because it's all fitting as part of

325
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: the work that she was doing in the demeanor that

326
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: she was expected to carry in front of these large

327
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,919
Speaker 1: audiences at the time. Um. And I can give you

328
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,120
Speaker 1: a quote, for instance, about what one person said from

329
00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 1: the Saratoga Union quote. There is neither brass in her

330
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 1: notes north, thickness in her phrasing. Her annunciation is also perfect.

331
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 1: The exquisite christness with which she executes complicated skills and

332
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 1: rapid time delighted all with all she sings intelligently, without affectation,

333
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 1: and with much feeling. These newspaper articles talked about her

334
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,239
Speaker 1: appearance as well, but often they had this air of

335
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: being surprised that she was actually great at her craft,

336
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: even though not every person who was a critic of

337
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:35,360
Speaker 1: hers said that, you know, she was good at her craft. Um.

338
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 1: Some people did say she has natural talent, but you know,

339
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 1: the craft ain't so much there she could do with

340
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: more professional schooling, more training and things like that. They

341
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: would also do this thing where they were like, oh wow,

342
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't necessarily expecting that. I was just expecting her

343
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 1: as like as if her her race would proceed her

344
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: the work that she was doing, like it was the

345
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 1: race was reason that she had this grand reputation that

346
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 1: would precede her um, And they would do the same

347
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 1: thing that a lot of media does today with women

348
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: and with black women, comparing her to other female singers

349
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 1: like Flora Batson, for instance. But she was still well

350
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,239
Speaker 1: received in a lot of these places and she was

351
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: making money and she was able to support herself through

352
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: her work that way and doing what she loved in

353
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: terms of concert singing. So her manager, James Pond, set

354
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: her up to go on a tour with a troupe

355
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: of white European musicians. That meant that at the same

356
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,240
Speaker 1: time as they would attract an audience who wanted to

357
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: see white musicians, but they would also choose to perform

358
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: on stage with her, which is something that some white

359
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: musicians didn't want to do. UM White Americans, particularly Um

360
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: and under Pond, she was mostly performing for white audiences,

361
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: which up until that point her audiences were mostly black.

362
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: So she's staging with a bunch of different people, like

363
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: it would be an exhaustive list to go through all

364
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 1: of the concerts that she did. Was just so many

365
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: over the years and with so many people. But she

366
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: would continue to do voice lessons UM for years. She

367
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: did them with Luisa Capiani, who was a voice teacher

368
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: from Austria and lived in New York City. So musician

369
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: and composer will Marian Cook he wanted to put on

370
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 1: a black opera called Scenes from Uncle Tom's Cabin at

371
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: the Chicago World's Fair, which was also known as the

372
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: Colombian Exposition. Spoiler alert, that did not happen. That performance

373
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Um Jones did sing one night at the

374
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: Exposition though. Either way. There was a benefit concert at

375
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: Carnegie Music Hall and Secretta headline that concert, which marked

376
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: the first time that black Americans played in the main

377
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: hall at Carnegie and there in was Assistretta's first there there.

378
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: There wasn't much known commentary from Ssirata on how she

379
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 1: felt about the racial climate in the United States. There

380
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: was some she talked about in Europe, how she felt

381
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: like she didn't have to go through and black people

382
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: didn't go through as much there as they did in

383
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: United States, and saying that there wasn't as much racism there.

384
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: She did comment on things like when she how she

385
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: thought it was unreasonable at these segregated shows where black

386
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: people would be confined to the gallery and white people

387
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: were able to sit in the orchestra, even if that

388
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't really make sense because there were all these seats

389
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: in the orchestra and they get while the gallery was

390
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: packed and they were having to turn people away from that.

391
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: And also along the way things would happen even when

392
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 1: they were on their tours outside of the United States

393
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: of where they had difficulties finding hotels and getting turned

394
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: around from hotels when she was having a hot from

395
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: place to place um and stay in hotels along the way.

396
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: But either way, David concerts for her and Pond book

397
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: concerts for her, And at a certain point there was

398
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: controversy over that because when David booked some contracts concerts

399
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: for Ceceretta, Pond said that they had violated their contract,

400
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: so he sued them, and he even said that Ceceretta

401
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: refused to sing the concerts that he booked, and they

402
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: had a bunch of back and forth over that. There

403
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: was a whole court case with a lot of dealings,

404
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: and Sinceretta wanted damages of five thousand dollars saying that

405
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: nobody had been abiding by this contract that they had

406
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: initially agreed to in the first place. Like that was

407
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: basically Nolan Voyd after a certain point, and an initial

408
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: ruling did go into her favor her and David's favor,

409
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: but then another one right after that went into Pond's

410
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: favor with the different judge, and David couldn't book Sinceretta

411
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: to sing at that point and gigs could only be

412
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: book under Ponds management. The judge basically deemed her ungrateful

413
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: um for all that Pond had done for her hugely

414
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: successful career. And yeah, but so there was this contention

415
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: between her and her manager over this point, and Pond

416
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: did stop being her manager in mid four anyway, and

417
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: Rudolph Vocal would soon manage her for the rest of

418
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: her career not long after that. So her career continued

419
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: to be successful, but that was kind of a contentious

420
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,239
Speaker 1: split between her and a person who seemingly did have

421
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: played a huge role in her growing into this large

422
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: name that she was. So that's pretty complicated, but yeah,

423
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: she toured Europe for most of She went to places

424
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: like Germany, England, France, and Italy, and at a certain

425
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: point she began appearing in more vaudeville show US. When

426
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: she got to the back to the US, there weren't

427
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: as a mini concert opportunities for her at this point,

428
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: and this a enigma and mystery around Black Prima Donnas

429
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: at that point was kind of fading. But she moved

430
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: into a career as the star of the Black Petty Troubadours.

431
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: There shows were a mix of comedy of vaudeville, opera,

432
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: and burlesque, and they were sing quote unquote coon songs,

433
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: which was a thing at the time. UM, and have

434
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: all these skits as part of this super long, hours

435
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: long show and then Cinceretta would close them out with

436
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: this grand operatic performance. And that lasted for a long time. Um,

437
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: a super long time. And like I alluded to earlier,

438
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: she did fall from for divorce from David, saying that

439
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: he liked it to support her, he was cruel to

440
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: her and he had quote unquote continued drunkenness, and she

441
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: wanted her old last name back. She wanted to join

442
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: her back, and they granted her that, though she did

443
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: continue to use Jones and her stage name and the

444
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: Black Potty Troubadors eventually changed her name to the Black

445
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: Potty Musical Comedy Company, but that didn't last too long

446
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: and they broke up in nineteen fifteen. She had a

447
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: lot of travels over her life and did a bunch

448
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: of shows while she was part of It would be

449
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: impossible to condense her story with the Troubadoors into such

450
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: a short space because she did so many shows. A

451
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: lot of them were these one off nights. Sometimes she

452
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: would do weeklong engagements and places she went everywhere. She

453
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: was in San Francisco, she was in Atlanta, she was

454
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: in the Northeast, she was all these places that she

455
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: would tour with them and got good reception, got different

456
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: positive and negative reviews in the press, and a lot

457
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: of deaths within the Troubadors because these were these were

458
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: huge performances with a lot of people in them, dozens

459
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: of people, um. So she was also surrounded by things

460
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: like that drama with people who wanted certain kinds of

461
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: ownership and credit over things that were happening in the show,

462
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: and a split between the managers who were over the

463
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: Troubadors and them going their own separate ways. So all

464
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: of those things that you would expect was something involving

465
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: so many people and is an artistic endeavor and happens

466
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: in so many different places, and mind you, is occurring

467
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: while all these turbulent and like um, just really dramatic

468
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: things are happening in the United States and in the world.

469
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: Wars are happening, a lot of technological advancement like cars

470
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: being created, um planes, you know, all of these things

471
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: are happening all she is going through all of this.

472
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: So she did end up returning to Providence and taking

473
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: care of her mother after that split with the True Dodoors.

474
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: Her mother was sick. Um. There was a period when

475
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: towards the end of her career with the True Dodoors

476
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: when she got ill as well. After she returned to Providence,

477
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: she stopped performing on stage, and she ended up selling

478
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: a lot of her jury and property to support herself.

479
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: She died in nineteen thirty three, and I think her

480
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: story is very fascinating in terms of what she was

481
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: able to do at that time and how how much

482
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: confidence she had. And I really wish that I could

483
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: hear her voice, just so I could like hear what

484
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: everyone else was hearing at the time. And we're so

485
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: impressed by and that so many people had opinions about.

486
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: But it does feel like her story is so bitter

487
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: sweet because she there's this feeling of she didn't leave

488
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: this world with much, but that she left it with

489
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: a lot um. I don't know her character personally, but

490
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: from the way it's described, it seems like at the

491
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: end of her life she was the same as she

492
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: was throughout the rest of her life. And so she

493
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: had this grand experience where she was invited and welcomed

494
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: by all these dignitaries and performed with all these high,

495
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: high faluting people, and was in circles with people, um

496
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: who were notable when it came to abolition, um so,

497
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: some civil rights leaders, um. People like Paul Lawrence Dunbar, so,

498
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: huge artists, um so, people who were super culturally relevant

499
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: and did a lot of things that we remember them for.

500
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: But also all of the quote unquote normal people who

501
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: were in the audience and watching her and seeing her

502
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: rise to stardom and all these things that she was doing,

503
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: and her being on all these trains and being the

504
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: star of the show. It seems like such a glamorous

505
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: life in such a difficult time. I just have a

506
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 1: lot of complicated feelings around it, because she seemed to

507
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 1: be characterized as this person at the end of her

508
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: life who was a lot more mellow and calmer, like

509
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: keeping things a lot more low key at the end

510
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: of her life than she did before. Like she was

511
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: just she the neighborhood kids knew her and would come over,

512
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: and artists would visit her home, and she would be

513
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: in her garden, and she was respected a little bit,

514
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: well respected and feared a little bit and um, but

515
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: also the modest and economics for the way that her

516
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: money was at the time, all the savings that she

517
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: had burned through and having to sell these things and

518
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: make deals with people to be able to afford things

519
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: and take care of her mother. And she died not

520
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: long after her mother died. Actually, so yeah, it's at

521
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: leads me with this very bittersweet feeling of this very

522
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: this life full of riches in so many ways that

523
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily end in riches. But I'm hesitant to say

524
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: like she died in poverty because she didn't die in poverty.

525
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: She lived a life of wealth in so many ways

526
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: that are more than just the tangible ways that are

527
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: related to her monetary things, her belongings and the things

528
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: that you know, one could put their hands on and

529
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: say that that has a certain value. Like her life

530
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: definitely had value outside of those things. And you know

531
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: that's why I, like I am, you know, grateful to

532
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: be able to share her story and share so many

533
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: of these stories. Um. But headstone wasn't put on her

534
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: unmarked grave until and yeah, like like Annie said, earlier.

535
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: There are no known recordings of her singing, and people

536
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: are you know, still hopeful that that will turn up

537
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: one day because even though there was a black potty

538
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: wreck a labels, she didn't really have anything to do

539
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: with that. Uh yeah, but that's her story and I'm

540
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: happy to share it. Um. We're happy as always that

541
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: you brought it to us and you did all this

542
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: work and you put it together in such a great

543
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: way because it it is. It's an amazing, amazing story, um.

544
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: And there's so much, like you said, like this is

545
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: a condensed thing, but there's so much that she did

546
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: that was fascinating, and it's like hard to I kept

547
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: finding all these other rabbit holes I want to go down, like, oh,

548
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 1: I want to hear more about this. I learn more

549
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: about this in her life, um, and all of her accomplishments.

550
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: And then I don't know, when I was reading it,

551
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad you put you you have you shared your

552
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: conflicting feelings around it, because I was like, wow, she

553
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: it was buried an unmarked grave after all of the years,

554
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: and it was I think it was a go fund

555
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: me campaign. Um, it took that long when she did

556
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: have this big of an impact and people did know her.

557
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: That just sort of like I have have to have

558
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: those people fighting for you to still be remembered and

559
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: still be heard. And I'm glad, as I said at

560
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: the top, I'm glad people have been doing that um

561
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: for a long time and continue to do so. And

562
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: I am very happy to get Eves that you you

563
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: shared that story and now our listeners maybe can share

564
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: that story, and because it's one worth being told, maybe

565
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: someone can find a recording. I'm thinking maybe somewhere in

566
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: Europe has a hidden recording of her Grand Tour now

567
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: that have to be discovered. The HBO mini series you

568
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: keep bringing up would be the search for the lost recording.

569
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: That's the beginning. I would love it too, because I

570
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: I was, I was like, oh, I can't wait to

571
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: hear your voice. Couldn't find it anywhere. It's like, no,

572
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: even more haunting joke, it really is. I know that's

573
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: one of the biographers, like that's the one wish that

574
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: they had, And yeah, that's so haunting to know that

575
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: this amazing performances out there that was a show stopper.

576
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: Literally people were just odd and would sit there for

577
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: hours to listen to this and we can't hear it.

578
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's all of

579
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: that that goodness of hearing her voice has to be

580
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: confined to that time, even though thousands of people heard

581
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: her voice. It's like, we'll never get too but sometimes

582
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: hopefully we will, but right now and it's maybe one

583
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: person out there. Um. It kind of also takes the

584
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: lesson of taking people for granted and not realizing the

585
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: legend that is happening at that point in time, not

586
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: not realizing that and not recognizing what she was doing,

587
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: which just doing something that she loved and was really

588
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: really really well trained at and good at and talented

589
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: in um and did a lot of work to be

590
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: in that field. Um. And it makes me said that

591
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: we don't get to hear that. At the same time,

592
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: it sounds like yeah, you know, uh, some of the

593
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: treatment as a conflict as you have and like seeing

594
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: I'm glad to see that she continued to thrive as

595
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: in I guess I'm not thinking and being able to

596
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: be in her own privacy and to do what she

597
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: needed to do. But at the same time, all of

598
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: the harshness that she had to deal with, especially in

599
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: the United states. You know, it's like, yeah, we did

600
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: this to ourselves, so we punished, Like we're punished because

601
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: we couldn't recognize how amazing this was. And then those

602
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: the evils behind, which is kind of familiar today of

603
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: like the recording industry. That's kind of like comes back

604
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: to play and you're like, yeah, this is what happens

605
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: when things like this are neglected. I guess it does

606
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: feel to think about another place in which a lot

607
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: of these conflicting feelings come up for me, is and

608
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: how much she worked and up to I think it

609
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: was around forty five weeks out of the year, she

610
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: would be on tour with these troubadors, night after night

611
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: after night after night, you know, using her physical body.

612
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: Another part of this is that this was a very

613
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: it's singing, but it's a very physical thing that from

614
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: her moving from one place to the other, you know,

615
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: imagining the amount of sleep that she was able to get,

616
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: you know, how how she had to maintain her health.

617
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: But at the same time her health was so taxed

618
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: because of the work that she did, and just thinking

619
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: about how many years of consistent grind that she had

620
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: to go through, and also so much of the loss

621
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: that she was having to deal with when it came

622
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: to her, her children, her siblings, her mother who got

623
00:36:54,600 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: not long before her, And it feels like a lot

624
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: of weight for one person. But at the same time,

625
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 1: she had so much beauty in her life as as well.

626
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: Um that offered another narrative, you know, beyond the tragedy

627
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: in her life. But I just think about that too

628
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 1: in terms of she so anomalous for the time as

629
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: a black woman who achieved the kind of success that

630
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: she did in concert singing, even though she never did

631
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: opera because we didn't really touch on that, but opera

632
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: was and is can be such a very white space

633
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: and she didn't have access to that in many ways.

634
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, and and how much she had to grind

635
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: and push herself to these kinds of limits during that time.

636
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: It just I think about that in terms of what

637
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: people do today and what musicians and artists do today

638
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, Yeah, a lot of sacrifices were made,

639
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: for sure. Whenever we get to that, because I feel

640
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: like we've been talking a lot about celebrity and the past,

641
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: tom whenever we do that one about privacy and celebrity

642
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: and kind of demands on artists and the entitlement we

643
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: feel a lot of times we're on. Artists can talk

644
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: on this, talk about this some more. Yes, thank you, Eats. Well,

645
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: it was a pleasure as always to have you. Thank

646
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: you so much, um for coming on. Where can the

647
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: good listeners find you? Eaves? Y'all can find me on

648
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: Instagram at not Apologizing, I'm on Twitter at Eves jeff Co.

649
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: Or you can just go to my website Eve jeff

650
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: cot dot com and get the links to all of

651
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: those things. Yes, um, and you should do that if

652
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: you haven't done it already. You can also find her

653
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: on this very show, um, which are always excellentcyments. Oh yes,

654
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: this thing I am doing currently, Yes, yes, shows uh

655
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: and listeners. If you would like to reach out to us,

656
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: you can or email Stuff Media mom Stuff at I

657
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 1: hurt me dot com. You can find us on Twitter

658
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and stuff I've

659
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: Never told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.

660
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening stuffhe

661
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: ever told you. The production of I Heart Radio more

662
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: podcast from my Heart Radio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app,

663
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or Redila listen to your favorite shows,