Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 2: and speaker.
Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 3: and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 3: our careers and our families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1: Term career goals.
Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2: This episode is airing in early May of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: Sarah is going to be interviewing Tiffany Moon, who some
Speaker 2: people may know from her appearances on the Real Housewives
Speaker 2: of Dallas. However, she also has a career as a physician,
Speaker 2: done a lot of other interesting, fascinating things that she
Speaker 2: writes about in her new memoir, Joy Prescriptions. So we're
Speaker 2: very excited to talk to Tiffany. But Sarah, you were
Speaker 2: not a regular Real Housewives of Dallas viewer prior to this.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 3: No, I really haven't spent much time watching Real Housewives
Speaker 3: in general, and so I didn't necessarily know what to
Speaker 3: expect I knew that she would probably be super glamorous,
Speaker 3: but when I read her memoir, actually, like, I was
Speaker 3: really drawn in by just how interesting her entire life
Speaker 3: story and the trajectory and how The Real Housewives was
Speaker 3: like one piece of her history. But definitely, once I
Speaker 3: was finished, I was like, well, that does not define
Speaker 3: Tiffany Moon. So yeah, some people are probably coming at
Speaker 3: this from like knowing her from the show, and I
Speaker 3: can't came at it from a different angle, but I
Speaker 3: kind of think her story is probably fascinating from either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I should say, It was funny you guys
Speaker 2: were having such a challenging time coming up with the
Speaker 2: time to make the interview work because you are both
Speaker 2: still seeing patients.
Speaker 1: I mean she sees patients a couple of days a week.
Speaker 3: Correct, Well, they're actually the opposite days, so her like, oh,
Speaker 3: our days are my like podcasting days, and vice versa.
Speaker 3: So it actually turned out that the day that our
Speaker 3: family left on a spring break trip, I had taken
Speaker 3: off and was like a Thursday, which is not a
Speaker 3: day like usually I'm clinically, So it was like, woo,
Speaker 3: the stars aligned. I think we moved it like three
Speaker 3: times and it worked out, and it was my fault
Speaker 3: that we were moving it like not the Real Housewife.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well I should tell people Sarah's so conscientious
Speaker 2: that we got when I got the text that Sarah
Speaker 2: was like in the hospital with her cardiac event, She's
Speaker 2: also like R and I can't dinner view Tiffany because
Speaker 2: I'm here, and I'm like, huh, okay, well they'll probably understand.
Speaker 1: They did.
Speaker 3: They were so nice, like they really were the whole team.
Speaker 1: So are you much?
Speaker 2: I mean you don't really watch You've watched some reality TV,
Speaker 2: haven't you read that?
Speaker 3: Fun to do a little rundown of like some of
Speaker 3: our favorite reality shows over the years, So Dance Moms
Speaker 3: with Annabelle mostly, But yeah, is it cake is one
Speaker 3: that my kids enjoy?
Speaker 1: Is it cake? I don't even know what this is.
Speaker 3: Oh, they make a cake or maybe it's not a cake,
Speaker 3: and you have to guess if it's cake or not
Speaker 3: because some of these things look so life like. And
Speaker 3: then they get a knife and like if it cuts
Speaker 3: and opens in the cake, then it was cake.
Speaker 1: Laura, You've got to check this out or feel like
Speaker 1: you would do all right? Somehow I have my kids
Speaker 1: like is it cake cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 3: Really really old shows that I really loved were The
Speaker 3: Glee Project, which was a spin off of the show Glee,
Speaker 3: but they were like trying to find the next cast member,
Speaker 3: so it was like a performance reality show. I did
Speaker 3: watch The Real World for a few seasons, like twenty
Speaker 3: years ago, American Idol of course, and then a sleeper
Speaker 3: hit in my family has been Shark t Ooh okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: like we'll watch that weirdly at like hotels.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, you know, it comes on. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, it's like always on and everyone likes it,
Speaker 3: like all five of us, so great.
Speaker 1: It works about you, it works not that many.
Speaker 2: I mean I did watch the season finale of the
Speaker 2: first season of Survivors, so I had that Richard Hatch
Speaker 2: cultural point there, that cultural reference point.
Speaker 1: I haven't really watched it since.
Speaker 2: I do like remodeling and renovation shows, which I don't
Speaker 2: know if that counts as reality TV, but they are
Speaker 2: real he does.
Speaker 1: Usually you get their hunting for houses or something. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: I like the design and renovation stuff and seeing what
Speaker 2: people are able to do with the space and like
Speaker 2: what can be in vision and often people are able
Speaker 2: to stay in their homes that they thought they couldn't
Speaker 2: stay in their homes.
Speaker 1: It's just it needed to be renovated, and once.
Speaker 2: It was, it's like they don't actually want to sell it,
Speaker 2: which is amazing.
Speaker 1: I always love seeing that.
Speaker 2: But we're excited to hear what Tiffany has to say,
Speaker 2: so let's move to the interview.
Speaker 3: Well, I am so excited to welcome doctor Tiffany Moon
Speaker 3: to the show. This is such an honor to have her.
Speaker 3: I think she and her story are going to resonate
Speaker 3: so much with our listeners. She is definitely the first
Speaker 3: TV reality star we have had on the show. So
Speaker 3: with that, welcome, doctor Tiffany Moon.
Speaker 4: Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: So can you share. Let's just start from the beginning.
Speaker 3: And I actually really enjoyed reading your origin story. And
Speaker 3: I don't know that you need to get into all
Speaker 3: of that now, although we may revisit some of it,
Speaker 3: but give our listeners if they are not familiar with
Speaker 3: your TV career or your kind of hybrid creative and
Speaker 3: professional career, give us the story in like the three
Speaker 3: minute version.
Speaker 4: Okay, So I immigrated to the United States when I
Speaker 4: was six years old from China. I didn't speak a
Speaker 4: word of English. I had to go to ESL. I
Speaker 4: was a super huge nerd my entire life. We moved
Speaker 4: very frequently, and so it was hard for me to
Speaker 4: make friends, and so I found a lot of solace
Speaker 4: in reading and doing schoolwork. I ended up graduating from
Speaker 4: high school at the age of fifteen, going to college,
Speaker 4: moved out of my parents' house, lived in a dorm.
Speaker 4: So I graduated from college when I was nineteen, went
Speaker 4: straight into medical school, graduated from medical school when I
Speaker 4: was twenty three, got married a few years later, and
Speaker 4: then by the time I turned thirty, I had two
Speaker 4: kids because I had twins. And then somewhere like in
Speaker 4: my mid thirties, about seven years into being a full
Speaker 4: time academic antithesiologist, I sort of had this like is
Speaker 4: this all there is? Moment? Not that I was ungrateful
Speaker 4: or that anything was wrong, but I just felt like
Speaker 4: I had worked so hard my entire life to get
Speaker 4: to this place that was supposed to be the summit
Speaker 4: of this great mountain I had been climbing for all
Speaker 4: my life, and it just wasn't all that I lacked laughter,
Speaker 4: I lacked creativity, I lacked connection, and I just felt
Speaker 4: like I went to the operating room at six thirty
Speaker 4: every day, got off sometime between four to five pm,
Speaker 4: missed all the mommy and me things that my kids preschool.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I would have a sick child at home and
Speaker 4: my nanny was taking care of my sick child while
Speaker 4: I went to the operating room to take care of
Speaker 4: my patients, and I just felt torn all the time.
Speaker 4: So I decided to go part time at work, which
Speaker 4: then opened up a lot of new opportunities for me,
Speaker 4: such as going on the Real Housewives of Dallas, trying
Speaker 4: my hand at stand up comedy, becoming a social media influencer,
Speaker 4: and then writing my book. My husband jokes that I
Speaker 4: went part time with my anesthesia job, but then I
Speaker 4: just picked up like three new jobs.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of where I am now, which is amazing,
Speaker 3: and listeners to this podcast can appreciate that I have
Speaker 3: a far less glass version of that in my own life.
Speaker 3: Talk a little bit about your decision to go part time,
Speaker 3: because the way you just described it is not quite
Speaker 3: the order you talked about it in your book. You
Speaker 3: really really struggled with that, Yeah, Can you share how
Speaker 3: that played out?
Speaker 4: Yes. In my department at work, I had seen a
Speaker 4: couple of women go part time before, either because they
Speaker 4: wanted to be more present with their families, and sometimes
Speaker 4: it was because they got sick and they needed to
Speaker 4: have time off to go to their appointments and stuff.
Speaker 4: And the unsaid thing at my work was that if
Speaker 4: you go part time, you sort of fall off the
Speaker 4: rising star trajectory in terms of having leadership positions, committee roles, teaching, mentoring,
Speaker 4: that kind of stuff. And they would call it going
Speaker 4: on the quote unquote mommy trap, like that was what
Speaker 4: going part time was. And I had worked so hard
Speaker 4: my entire life. I went into the best anesthesia program
Speaker 4: in the country. I graduated at the top of my
Speaker 4: medical school class. I was running multiple clinical trials and
Speaker 4: writing manuscripts. I mean I was breastfeeding one of my
Speaker 4: twins and literally typing a manuscript with the other hand
Speaker 4: on a laptop like it was wild. I had that
Speaker 4: Bobby Pillow thing, and I was so scared that if
Speaker 4: I went part time, I would fall off that growth
Speaker 4: curve and drop down. And I just didn't want to
Speaker 4: sacrifice all the hard work that I had spent to
Speaker 4: get there, only to then be relegated to the mommy track,
Speaker 4: and so I was like full force ahead. And I
Speaker 4: also wanted to do everything for my twin girls. So
Speaker 4: if I wasn't at the hospital, I was at home
Speaker 4: trying to make them homemade food, take them to mommy
Speaker 4: and me like jimboree and swim classes and music and
Speaker 4: all that stuff. And I quite frankly burned myself out
Speaker 4: because I was trying to be everything for everyone all
Speaker 4: at once.
Speaker 3: And I think now that i've I mean, this can
Speaker 3: be common, but your story is even more nuanced, because
Speaker 3: I think it's very interesting how much you even though
Speaker 3: you had a good amount of financial security, although obviously
Speaker 3: that can always change, but you could have gone part
Speaker 3: time earlier. You had an influencer career that was probably
Speaker 3: growing at that time already, and yet you stopped yourself.
Speaker 3: I wonder, and this is kind of in the book.
Speaker 3: I'm like reading between the lines, but you can tell
Speaker 3: me with some of that more like answering to your
Speaker 3: family's expectations or sort of like your concept of what
Speaker 3: being good kind of meant and how did you reckon
Speaker 3: with that?
Speaker 4: It was both You're right that none of this was
Speaker 4: about money. I mean I don't want to sound inconsiderate,
Speaker 4: but like I didn't need to work right and certainly
Speaker 4: not work that hard and be full time running clinical trials,
Speaker 4: taking overnight trauma call and liver transplant call like I
Speaker 4: was doing like way more. I think this is the
Speaker 4: crux of it that I've come to, this realization after
Speaker 4: lots of therapy, is that growing up as a child,
Speaker 4: the only time that I ever felt worthy was when
Speaker 4: I was doing something and helping other people and or
Speaker 4: making money. So I think a lot of this comes
Speaker 4: from my family upbringing. My parents were very strict, typical
Speaker 4: Asian immigrant parents, you know, like a ninety six was
Speaker 4: not good enough. They would ask me like, oh, why
Speaker 4: did you get a ninety six, Like you missed a problem.
Speaker 4: Let me see that, Like how could you miss that?
Speaker 4: That's such an easy problem, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: And so even as a young adult, even now in
Speaker 4: my forties, I still struggle with my worth and I
Speaker 4: keep taking on more tasks in order to prove how
Speaker 4: strong and capable I am. And here I wrote an
Speaker 4: entire book about finding joy. But I still have moments
Speaker 4: where there's this little nagging voice in the back of
Speaker 4: my head that tells me if I don't continue to
Speaker 4: achieve and do things, that I won't be seen as worthy.
Speaker 4: And I have to remind myself all the time. It's
Speaker 4: not like I just figured it out and I'm healed. Now.
Speaker 3: That's interesting that you still consider it like a work
Speaker 3: in progress. Yeah, is it something you talk about like, well,
Speaker 3: you've mentioned therapy and then I guess like with family
Speaker 3: members and your husband.
Speaker 4: And yes, I think therapy has been so helpful because
Speaker 4: I had so many complicated feelings about my childhood that
Speaker 4: I kind of swept under the rug. In my family,
Speaker 4: we didn't talk about feelings or problems, Like even when
Speaker 4: my parents were fighting, they would just not speak to
Speaker 4: each other for days at a time. And I saw
Speaker 4: this as a child. It was very weird. So I
Speaker 4: credit a lot of my personal growth the last five
Speaker 4: to ten years to therapy. Also working with an executive coach.
Speaker 4: I used to make fun of women who had coaches
Speaker 4: because I'd be like, what are they coaching you for?
Speaker 4: Like you don't know how to be an adult? But
Speaker 4: like I've now swung the other way, and I tell
Speaker 4: everybody that they need a coach, no matter what line
Speaker 4: of work. You're in. And I think the third thing
Speaker 4: probably was learning to set healthy boundaries, because I grew
Speaker 4: up in a home where there were no boundaries, and
Speaker 4: I grew up wanting to be perfect and people please
Speaker 4: and always do more. And when I learned to set
Speaker 4: healthy boundaries and enforce them, I really feel like that
Speaker 4: changed my life.
Speaker 3: I love that We're going to take a quick break
Speaker 3: and we'll be back talking a little bit more about
Speaker 3: some of the lessons that you share in your book.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back, And one of the chapters
Speaker 3: that I really enjoyed was you talking about your college
Speaker 3: experience and then your med school experience. Maybe I enjoyed
Speaker 3: those because I followed somewhat of a similar path, although
Speaker 3: I did not do my college in two years the
Speaker 3: way you did. But then you came to a conclusion
Speaker 3: that I think you regretted some of the way you
Speaker 3: approached college. And talk a little bit about the concept
Speaker 3: of enjoying the process. Can you share how that played
Speaker 3: out and maybe some of the ways in which you
Speaker 3: feel like you're better able to enjoy the process today
Speaker 3: or what that might look like.
Speaker 4: Yes, So I always thought that there was a finish
Speaker 4: line and the faster I got to the finish line
Speaker 4: than I would win, but life is not a race.
Speaker 4: And because I went to college so early, like I
Speaker 4: never went to senior prom, I never had like that
Speaker 4: first crush experience, like I was basically in high school
Speaker 4: and then I moved out of my parents' house to
Speaker 4: go to the dorm and had to grow up very
Speaker 4: quickly with it in like a several months. And then
Speaker 4: I went to Cornell after my program in Texas, and
Speaker 4: I was just studying all the time. I was taking
Speaker 4: like seventeen to nineteen credits a semester. I was taking
Speaker 4: organic chemistry and physics and studying for the MCAT at
Speaker 4: the same time. Because god forbid I take a gap
Speaker 4: year between undergrad and medical school, Like no, I needed
Speaker 4: to go straight through. And that was just too much
Speaker 4: of a course load for someone, you know, So I
Speaker 4: missed out on a lot of those rich college experiences
Speaker 4: that other people talk about because I was just straight
Speaker 4: up going to class and study like that was all
Speaker 4: college was for me. I went to Cornell a total
Speaker 4: of four semesters, no summer school, no whatever, and basically
Speaker 4: just packed it all in. But because there was so
Speaker 4: much emphasis on like academic achievement and finishing early. I
Speaker 4: didn't get to study abroad. I don't really have besties
Speaker 4: from college because you need to spend time with people
Speaker 4: in order to nurture those deep friendships, and I just wasn't.
Speaker 4: I was like in the library studying all the time.
Speaker 4: And when I graduated, I was nineteen. So I tell
Speaker 4: people how I look at my life, my medical school
Speaker 4: was my college because when I was in medical school,
Speaker 4: I was nineteen to twenty three years old. That's more
Speaker 4: college age. And I'm telling you, like, those four years
Speaker 4: were probably the most fun years of my life, which
Speaker 4: when I tell normal people that, they're like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: this girl's such a dork, like she loved medical school
Speaker 4: so much. But my two best friends from this very
Speaker 4: day until this very day were my tank mates from
Speaker 4: Cadaver Lab, Lisa and Michelle. And so I think I
Speaker 4: replaced my college experience with my medical school experience. But
Speaker 4: I do wish that I could have just slowed down
Speaker 4: a little bit and enjoyed and stopped to smell the roses,
Speaker 4: because I was just a one track horse with blinders
Speaker 4: on focus at the finish line. And then the sad
Speaker 4: thing is you think it's going to be like confetti
Speaker 4: and streamers at the finish line. And you get there
Speaker 4: and it's kind of like meh, like, what's the next thing? Oh,
Speaker 4: I guess we'll start med school. Now, you know, what's
Speaker 4: the next thing? I need to do residency fellowship. Then
Speaker 4: I got to get a prestigious academic job. Like the
Speaker 4: finish line always moves, there's always another target. And so
Speaker 4: what I tell people now is like the joy is
Speaker 4: in the journey and not in the destination.
Speaker 3: And that that's true now, right, Like, cause I'm sure
Speaker 3: as you were doing Real Housewives it was like, okay, this, well,
Speaker 3: it didn't sound like you loved every minute of that,
Speaker 3: but you enjoy it.
Speaker 4: There was not a whole lot of joy in Housewives.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of drama, a lot of fighting,
Speaker 4: a lot of stupidity, but like joy not so much.
Speaker 3: And then not, well, that process might have been more
Speaker 3: tough to enjoy. But I guess even with something like that,
Speaker 3: which for some people might have been like the pinnacle
Speaker 3: of what they were aiming for, not necessarily you, but
Speaker 3: for some people they're still what's next? Now it's the book? Okay,
Speaker 3: the book's done. Now, what's next, and even with less
Speaker 3: glamorous things in their lives. I think a lot of
Speaker 3: our listeners can relate to that. How do you go
Speaker 3: about like enjoying your now as it is every day,
Speaker 3: mundane day to mundane day.
Speaker 4: Yes, So okay, these are like the three pillars that
Speaker 4: I try to focus on. It's connection, gratitude, and laughter,
Speaker 4: And that's what I have in the book as well,
Speaker 4: like each of the chapters that ends with the joy prescription.
Speaker 4: So connection is so important to me because I used
Speaker 4: to feel like I live life like on the very
Speaker 4: surface of the water, but never going deep enough to
Speaker 4: make those actual connections. It's you know, like passing by colleague, surgeons,
Speaker 4: nurses in the army like oh, hey, how is your weekend?
Speaker 4: Like where'd y'all go for spring break? It was just
Speaker 4: all very like surface level, and I was like, I'm
Speaker 4: not going to do that anymore. I'm going to like
Speaker 4: choose some people to interact with in a more deep
Speaker 4: and meaningful manner, you know, like we would have a
Speaker 4: new faculty on board, and after they settled in a
Speaker 4: little bit, I'd be like, hey, next time you're in
Speaker 4: between surgeries or whatever, like let me buy you a
Speaker 4: coffee and let's go sit and talk, and I'd be like,
Speaker 4: where are you from? Why did you come to Dallas?
Speaker 4: Why did you pick this job? And just get to
Speaker 4: know people a little bit better, Like I really feel
Speaker 4: like for many years I didn't have rich, deep connections.
Speaker 4: The second thing is gratitude, because I think we're all
Speaker 4: so busy and the world is a crazy place, and
Speaker 4: sometimes I would catch myself like just being complaining or
Speaker 4: woe is me? Things aren't going the way I wanted. Oh,
Speaker 4: I was supposed to go home at three pm, but
Speaker 4: they just put an ad on case in my room
Speaker 4: and I'd be all cranky about it. And I started
Speaker 4: like doing a lot of mindset work. I read so
Speaker 4: many self help books, listen to all the podcasts, and
Speaker 4: I started telling my brain that when things happen, that
Speaker 4: I get to do something, not I have to do something,
Speaker 4: you know, like when my alarm goes off at five
Speaker 4: and I'm supposed to go to the gym before I
Speaker 4: go to ther I'm like ugh. But then I just
Speaker 4: tell myself like, Nope, it's a privilege, Like I get
Speaker 4: to go to the jim you know, my body is able,
Speaker 4: and I'm working on not having sarcipedia when I'm older
Speaker 4: in osteoporosis, so I'm doing like weight bearing exercise, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a pain in the ass, it really is, especially
Speaker 4: at five point thirty in the morning. But like, I
Speaker 4: think it's a privilege, not a punishment. And I was
Speaker 4: listening to a podcast about a year ago and the
Speaker 4: woman on there said some people would take your problems
Speaker 4: and call them blessings, and I was like, oh, like,
Speaker 4: you're right, Like I've come so far, and sometimes I
Speaker 4: just catch myself complaining about the stupidest things. But then
Speaker 4: when I think about that line, it kind of like
Speaker 4: humbles and grounds me. And then the last thing is laughter.
Speaker 4: My twin girls are ten now, so they're not as
Speaker 4: goofy as they were when they were like three, four
Speaker 4: or five, and I could do silly things, but sometimes
Speaker 4: before get to laugh, or we just take ourselves so seriously,
Speaker 4: And anesthesia's not exactly like a fun funny specialty. I
Speaker 4: have like really sick people on the table, and so
Speaker 4: now I try to like intentionally cultivate laughter, whether that's
Speaker 4: like watching a one hour Netflix special, doing something silly
Speaker 4: with my kids, running around like just trying to find
Speaker 4: the funny in life's situations versus being like pissed off
Speaker 4: and annoyed.
Speaker 3: So it's a really interesting reframe. I'm like picturing you
Speaker 3: and the well, there could be things to make fun
Speaker 3: of in the oar. I could see my war.
Speaker 4: It's pretty serious. The laughter part actually doesn't really go
Speaker 4: in the or. You know, some of the surgeons they
Speaker 4: don't like my jokes, or the patients they're like, are
Speaker 4: you gonna put me to sleep? And I'm like, uh huh,
Speaker 4: maybe I'll even wake you up and they're like they're
Speaker 4: like that, No, we leave the jokes outside the.
Speaker 3: Or oh my gosh. Well, we're going to take another
Speaker 3: break and then we're going to talk about something I
Speaker 3: loved that you brought up, which is weaponized professionalism. All right,
Speaker 3: we will be right back. All right, we are back.
Speaker 3: And I was so fascinated by you talking about how
Speaker 3: you know, if I met you at work, I would
Speaker 3: be like, that is the coolest thing ever. She is
Speaker 3: like doing it all. She's so fashionable, she's so cool,
Speaker 3: Like let me follow her around, let me try to
Speaker 3: get surgery. So anyway, I would be very excited to
Speaker 3: work with you, and like in awe of all you've accomplished,
Speaker 3: but then you've noted that in some spheres, doing things
Speaker 3: that might be seen as more feminine, maybe maybe more superficial,
Speaker 3: are sort of like used against you. And I think
Speaker 3: the phrase from your book was weaponized professionalism, and I
Speaker 3: was like, ooh, and I do feel like this is
Speaker 3: something that disproportionately impacts I'm in. It might even disproportionally
Speaker 3: impact people of color, different ethnicities, And I'd love to
Speaker 3: know kind of what you've seen with this and then
Speaker 3: how you have learned to handle it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've dealt with a lot of that. I think whenever,
Speaker 4: as a female professional, someone else doesn't like something you're doing,
Speaker 4: they weaponize the word professionalism against you. Oh, that's unprofessional.
Speaker 4: So several years ago, like twenty twenty, actually, COVID Times
Speaker 4: is when I really started being more active on social media.
Speaker 4: Before that, I would just like look at other people's
Speaker 4: social media and maybe like some stuff, but I never
Speaker 4: posted anything on my page. And then in twenty twenty,
Speaker 4: because of the pandemic and all the elective surgeries at
Speaker 4: work had been canceled, we were only doing like cancer
Speaker 4: and trauma surgeries. I had more time on my hands,
Speaker 4: and so I started posting just really as a way
Speaker 4: to relieve my boredom and try to engage with a
Speaker 4: their human beings. And I got called into my supervisor's
Speaker 4: office at the hospital and I was told that some
Speaker 4: of my social media content was unprofessional. That was the
Speaker 4: word they used. I remember it very clearly. My male
Speaker 4: supervisor said, stop by my office when you get a chance.
Speaker 4: I'm like, ret row. So I go and I'm like, hi, sir,
Speaker 4: you wanted to talk to me and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 4: have a seat. So there's been some concern from some
Speaker 4: of our colleagues that some of your recent social media
Speaker 4: posts aren't professional. And I was like, okay, do you
Speaker 4: care to elaborate? He was very vague. He wouldn't tell
Speaker 4: me which post who brought. I was like, is someone concerned?
Speaker 4: Like have I offended someone? And he was like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, it's just not a good look because were
Speaker 4: supposed to be, you know, professionals, and people look up
Speaker 4: to us. And I'm like, okay, I'm dancing. I'm posting
Speaker 4: about skincare, beauty fashion. I had made this thing called
Speaker 4: quarantine fashion, and I pretended like the hallway of my
Speaker 4: house was a runway and then we made different outfits
Speaker 4: using like trash bags, toilet paper, like weird stuff, and
Speaker 4: it was a quarantine fashion show. Like it was all
Speaker 4: in good fun. It was all filmed during off time.
Speaker 4: It's not like I was engaging in dangerous or legal
Speaker 4: activities or whatever. And I just sat there in his
Speaker 4: office like absolutely flabbergasted that one people were watching me
Speaker 4: enough to care and then two like screenshotting it and
Speaker 4: sending it to him. Because I was like kind of upset,
Speaker 4: and I was like, look, unless you have a specific
Speaker 4: thing that I did, like giving me this blanket, your
Speaker 4: social media is unprofessional, like doesn't help me. Like I
Speaker 4: don't know what should I just stop posting altogether? And
Speaker 4: I was like, also, who told you this? Because he
Speaker 4: was like, oh, well, I'm not even on social media,
Speaker 4: so I don't really understand what's going on. And I
Speaker 4: was like, well, did you actually see any of the posts?
Speaker 4: And he said, well, some people screenshoted some stuff and
Speaker 4: texted it to me, and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 4: these people need something better to do. Obviously they're following
Speaker 4: and watching me, you know, and then they don't like
Speaker 4: something I'm doing and then they like report it under
Speaker 4: the guise of like, I'm concerned this may reflect poorly
Speaker 4: on our department, and I was like, get out of here.
Speaker 4: Like people like that, I can't stand them.
Speaker 3: There's something a little sinister about specifically, I don't know,
Speaker 3: targeting like more feminine, you know, because if it was
Speaker 3: a guy like picturing showing his like monster truck hobby
Speaker 3: and his fishing, like I just don't think the conversation,
Speaker 3: like no one would have minded right, Like.
Speaker 4: No guys are doing like that. You're chugging thing with
Speaker 4: the hose or whatever, and like having a con it's
Speaker 4: like a frat party, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 4: everybody thinks it's funny. But then like I model a
Speaker 4: dress made out of toilet paper and that's unprofessional, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. It's a double standard for sure.
Speaker 3: But ultimately you you must have worked it out. So
Speaker 3: did you tell them that, like, hey, let's pretend this
Speaker 3: was some other topic, Like what specifically do you have
Speaker 3: an issue with? Like how were you able to resolve things?
Speaker 4: I don't know that I resolved them. I basically said,
Speaker 4: unless you have more specific and constructive feedback for me,
Speaker 4: I don't know what more else I can do. And
Speaker 4: that was basically it, and I thought, Okay, there's a
Speaker 4: fork in the road here. I can either play small
Speaker 4: and tone down my social media because apparently I've made
Speaker 4: some people uncomfortable with it. But also I'm like, stop watching,
Speaker 4: Like if you don't like my content, you know, there's
Speaker 4: this whole button that says like block or unfollow or something,
Speaker 4: you know, like why keep watching my content? But then
Speaker 4: like report it to get me in trouble. That's so lame.
Speaker 4: And the other side of the fork of the road
Speaker 4: was like, hey, how about I just keep being myself
Speaker 4: and posting the things that I like and this is
Speaker 4: my life and I will not shrink or dim my
Speaker 4: light because it's a little too bright for you. And
Speaker 4: I went with that. I was like, I'm not going
Speaker 4: to play small. So in many ways, I kept doing
Speaker 4: what I was doing, and in many ways I doubled
Speaker 4: down and made even more content because I was like,
Speaker 4: I don't know it kind of like whenever people challenge me,
Speaker 4: I'm like, watch this. So I made even more content.
Speaker 4: I started getting brand partnerships, my follower count started going
Speaker 4: up and up. I was like getting invited to go
Speaker 4: to dinners at new restaurants, that were opening in town
Speaker 4: just because they wanted some people to go and post
Speaker 4: about it. And I was like, this is kind of
Speaker 4: a cool side gig, Like I'm so glad that I
Speaker 4: didn't decide to play small when all these losers were
Speaker 4: complaining about me, because now look at all these opportunities
Speaker 4: that I have.
Speaker 3: I think it's awesome. You said a boundary and then
Speaker 3: you went for it, and you're like, if you have
Speaker 3: feedback for my anesthesia performance, please let me know. I
Speaker 3: would love to hear about that.
Speaker 4: Yes, the funniest thing that ever happened was it was
Speaker 4: actually a woman. It's funny. There's like man on women badness,
Speaker 4: and then there's like women on women badness. One of
Speaker 4: my female physician colleagues screenshotted something that I posted, and
Speaker 4: I guess she meant to send it to someone else,
Speaker 4: but she sent it to me, talking crap about me
Speaker 4: like it yeah, oops, right, Like this was like before
Speaker 4: the days of like I think you can unsend an
Speaker 4: I message Now I don't really know how that works,
Speaker 4: but I screenshoted it anyway, and I have it like
Speaker 4: forever in my camera role. And then she tried to backtrack.
Speaker 4: She was like oh, I didn't mean, and I was like,
Speaker 4: you can't. You cannot backtrack from that. So I became
Speaker 4: very acutely aware that there were people in my department
Speaker 4: like actively trying to take me down. And that was
Speaker 4: a crappy feeling. But I have screenshots so if this
Speaker 4: ever goes anywhere, like, I have a whole folder of
Speaker 4: receipts on stuff like this.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, And you shared the acronym haters having
Speaker 3: anger towards everybody reaching success. Hadn't heard that before?
Speaker 4: Yes, I didn't come up with that. I borrowed it
Speaker 4: from a podcast or something else that I read. But
Speaker 4: that's how I think of haters. I do social media
Speaker 4: coaching for female physicians and other business leaders. I basically
Speaker 4: audit their social media page and look at what's working,
Speaker 4: what's not, give them content, ideas and just strategies to
Speaker 4: elevate their brand presence on social media. And often it
Speaker 4: comes up with my clients that when they post and stuff,
Speaker 4: there's always some haters in the comments, and so this
Speaker 4: is when I use that, and I'm like, haters stands
Speaker 4: for having ancher towards everyone reaching success, because anytime you
Speaker 4: kind of like come out of your lane a little
Speaker 4: bit and put yourself out there. There's going to be negativity. Like,
Speaker 4: that's how human nature works. So the way I explain
Speaker 4: it is like, say you play small, you go to work,
Speaker 4: you go to church, your kids have some parents that
Speaker 4: are your friends. So you have like one hundred people
Speaker 4: in your sphere of influence, right, and like five or
Speaker 4: ten of them you just don't care for. You don't
Speaker 4: get along, You generally try to avoid each other. The
Speaker 4: problem is when you start putting yourself out there, especially
Speaker 4: on social media, and now your sphere of influence grows
Speaker 4: from let's say one hundred to a thousand or ten
Speaker 4: thousand people now fifty to one hundred or five hundred
Speaker 4: to one thousand people don't care for you. It's the
Speaker 4: same exact proportion, but it's much more people. And we
Speaker 4: as humans always have a negativity bias, right, And so
Speaker 4: a lot of my clients, once they start getting the
Speaker 4: hater comments, I'm like, that's.
Speaker 1: Great, babe.
Speaker 4: That means you're doing something, that means you're growing. And
Speaker 4: they're like, doesn't feel great, and I'm like, no, trust me, Like,
Speaker 4: if you have haters, that means you are doing something right.
Speaker 4: It means you're putting yourself out there and not everyone
Speaker 4: agrees with everything. You don't agree with everything you hear,
Speaker 4: you don't like everybody that comes across your feet, and
Speaker 4: it's fine. So my goal, I tell my clients, I'm like,
Speaker 4: your goal is to get more haters, because that means
Speaker 4: you're growing. I mean, it's kind of a joke, but
Speaker 4: I want to normalize the fact that there will always
Speaker 4: be naysayers and we should not let that detract us
Speaker 4: from following our passion and continuing to put ourselves out there.
Speaker 4: If I had let all that stuff at work happen,
Speaker 4: I would have like not kept posting on social media.
Speaker 4: And now that's like one of my actual jobs and
Speaker 4: it's so fun and it gives me way more flexibility
Speaker 4: than working in the operating room, and it allows me
Speaker 4: to flex my creativity and laughter, which there's not much
Speaker 4: creativity or laughter in the operating room. So it's really
Speaker 4: enriched my life. And had I listened to the haters,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even be here. So the lesson to the
Speaker 4: listeners here is like, do not listen to the haters.
Speaker 3: I love it, I love it, love it. I love
Speaker 3: that you're still doing the hybrid. I love that you
Speaker 3: are working full time in different ways while still enjoying
Speaker 3: your time with your kids. This has been so much
Speaker 3: fun and I absolutely recommend your bo especially because I
Speaker 3: really feel like you share so much and it reads
Speaker 3: like a juicy memoir, not like Self Help to Me,
Speaker 3: which I thought like was a good thing. Before we
Speaker 3: wrap up, I forgot to warn you, but we always
Speaker 3: share one thing that we love on the show. Just
Speaker 3: anything making you happy this week.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: I remember your gratitude list from your book, which was
Speaker 3: kind of funny. So you could do something like what
Speaker 3: you put on there, or just anything. It could be
Speaker 3: like the weather, it could be like a product, anything.
Speaker 3: I'm going to start us off to give you time
Speaker 3: to think, and I'm just going to share. My love
Speaker 3: of the week is that I got to take my
Speaker 3: thirteen year old shopping for her birthday. And I don't know,
Speaker 3: I feel like that was one of those kind of
Speaker 3: things you envision when your kids are little, like, oh,
Speaker 3: my kid's gonna be a teen and we're gonna go
Speaker 3: shopping together. There's gonna be fun. And it really really
Speaker 3: was fun. We mostly got like ath leisure like Lulu
Speaker 3: and Alo, and it was great. I had a wonderful time.
Speaker 4: So what is so sweet?
Speaker 3: So what is your love of the week.
Speaker 4: Okay, well we just got a new dog. He's right here,
Speaker 4: let me see if oh, well your people can't see there.
Speaker 3: That's so exciting.
Speaker 4: We got a new dog. His name is Custom. He's
Speaker 4: laying on the floor next to me right now. He's
Speaker 4: such a sweet boy. He is a Belgian malinoaw. I
Speaker 4: don't know if you know what that is. It's people
Speaker 4: think he's a German Shepherd. They look similar, but it's
Speaker 4: not exactly the same. But he's so sweet. I haven't
Speaker 4: My other dog is like seven. And if Custom is new,
Speaker 4: you forget. It's like having a child, Like how hard
Speaker 4: it is in the beginning, you know, because he's like
Speaker 4: chewing everything and having accidents and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: But I don't know, he's like my son. I love
Speaker 4: him so much and I don't know what it is,
Speaker 4: but like, I just love animals. I just have away
Speaker 4: with animals. My friend calls me snow white because animals
Speaker 4: just gravitate towards me. I'm like the dog whisper, not
Speaker 4: so much with people, but but with dogs. Yes, So
Speaker 4: my obsession right now is my new dog.
Speaker 3: I love it. So just remind our listeners the name
Speaker 3: of your book and where they can find you.
Speaker 4: Yes, the name of my memoir is Joy Prescriptions. It's
Speaker 4: available anywhere where books are sold, or on joyprescriptions dot com,
Speaker 4: where before May sixth you can get over three hundred
Speaker 4: dollars worth of pre order bonuses. And if you guys
Speaker 4: want to follow me along on all my unprofessional antics,
Speaker 4: I'm across all the social media platforms at Tiffany Moon MD.
Speaker 3: Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, Tiffany.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Sarah, Well we are back.
Speaker 1: That was great.
Speaker 2: Sarah interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the brand new book
Speaker 2: Joy Prescriptions. So our question this week comes from someone
Speaker 2: who says her husband and she have agreed to do
Speaker 2: more date nights, but seem to tire of the typical
Speaker 2: dinner and we cannot stay up for a movie. Other ideas,
Speaker 2: including even home dates, are welcome. So, Sarah, what are
Speaker 2: you thinking would be fun in the offbeat date night category?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So, I always feel like a low key sport can
Speaker 3: be good, meaning like bowling, mini golf, something where there's
Speaker 3: a little like competition to keep it spicy, and I
Speaker 3: top golf is like a new thing. I mean that's
Speaker 3: like a specific chain, but like that's sort of like
Speaker 3: regular golf, but can be gamified, which would I think
Speaker 3: be fun on a date. I think anything that could
Speaker 3: be gamified, like even a museum, Like, okay, let's go
Speaker 3: to a museum together and then decide if we can
Speaker 3: each find like guess each other's favorites in a given room.
Speaker 3: Or my other idea was night of hedonism where you
Speaker 3: get massages and then go out for ice cream.
Speaker 1: Interesting and at home you had some ideas for at home? Yes,
Speaker 1: at home.
Speaker 3: Someone told me about this, I think in a Patreon maybe.
Speaker 3: But virtual wine tasting is a thing where you can
Speaker 3: get a box sent to you and then like they
Speaker 3: do a zoom and then you and your partner like
Speaker 3: taste wines like in together, but like with a like
Speaker 3: a Somelier leading.
Speaker 1: Interesting. This that's interesting. Huh yeah. Yeah, it's not like
Speaker 1: how do you virtually drink wine? I'm not sure. No,
Speaker 1: you drink the real drink the real wine. Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: That makes for a better date. Yeah, that's sounds fun.
Speaker 2: I think one idea is you know if it sounds
Speaker 2: like people are tired at this could be a problem.
Speaker 2: Like you've gotten through the work weekends, like Friday night
Speaker 2: is date night, but then like everyone's so tired they
Speaker 2: kind of want to go to bed. I wonder if
Speaker 2: you could get out of the idea of night or
Speaker 2: maybe like move your regular date time. Maybe for your family,
Speaker 2: it would work better if you hired a sitter for
Speaker 2: like four hours on Saturday afternoon, and you could go
Speaker 2: out to lunch, or go to the gym together, or
Speaker 2: go to an art museum, or go play top golf
Speaker 2: for whatever, but at a time when you would have
Speaker 2: a lot more energy. Or as we heard in our
Speaker 2: Cheap It Hot episode a few weeks ago, you could
Speaker 2: also hire that sitter to take your children out of
Speaker 2: your house and then you could do whatever you want
Speaker 2: in your house during that time on Saturday afternoons. I
Speaker 2: would also just suggest pro sports is a a different thing.
Speaker 2: If you've got any or minor league sports would work
Speaker 2: in major league, minor league, whatever. If you are in
Speaker 2: a reasonable size city, there might be something you can do.
Speaker 2: It turns out places have a lot of different teams.
Speaker 2: We've been doing the tour of Phillies Professional sports institutions,
Speaker 2: and that's made for a couple of fun activities for us.
Speaker 3: And that's a great one because like you have entertainment
Speaker 3: but on like a play or a movie, like, there's
Speaker 3: plenty of time to talk to each other.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2: But you know it might be helpful just to brainstorm
Speaker 2: ideas too, Like we could treat this as something of
Speaker 2: a project for the two of you instead.
Speaker 1: Of because I think sometimes this gets to the well,
Speaker 1: we have this center for Friday, like we have a
Speaker 1: regular Friday setters that what are we supposed to do?
Speaker 1: I don't know what do you want to do?
Speaker 2: So just some other time, like both of you, like
Speaker 2: brainstorm a short list separately, and then you come together
Speaker 2: and compare your lists and brainstorm together to add no
Speaker 2: more to the list.
Speaker 3: This would be a fun date night activity.
Speaker 1: Well that's true. You could make that into a date
Speaker 1: night activity as well. Let's play on our next date. Right,
Speaker 1: we're not doing anything tonight, but here's what we might
Speaker 1: do at our next time. We do this.
Speaker 3: Combine it with your virtual wine tasting.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true, that could work as well, or just
Speaker 2: forget the tasting, just pour a glass of wine it's
Speaker 2: all good, yeah, and who knows what you might come
Speaker 2: up with, but I think you know it's worth spending
Speaker 2: some time and then you'll have a couple ideas for
Speaker 2: there on Thurne Well, this has been best of both worlds.
Speaker 2: Sarah has been interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the book
Speaker 2: Joy Prescriptions, also known for her appearances on Real Housewives
Speaker 2: of Dallas. We will be back next week with more
Speaker 2: on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
Speaker 3: and you.
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work
Speaker 2: and life work together.