1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: where weeks were the big money issues in the world 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: of sports. I am Damien sasaur In for Michael barn 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Scarlett fu. Today we're discussing some controversy involving Phoenix Suns 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: owner matt Ishpia. Joining us now to discuss more. Bloomberg 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: News investigative reporter Polly Moss ends Polly, thank you so 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business Sports Thanks 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: for having me. So, Molly, tell us a little bit 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: about what is going on here. I mean, Ishbia just 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: purchased the Phoenix Suns for four billion dollars back in February. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: What's happening over there? Yeah, So the Sun's deal definitely 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: got a lot of attention, the biggest deal in the league. 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: And after that deal went through, I think a lot 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 1: of people heard Matteshpia's name, perhaps for the first time, 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: or perhaps they knew a little bit about the mortgage 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: industry and had heard about him before, But certainly being 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: the owner of a team of this magnitude and this 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: fame made him a lot more famous, essentially overnight. And 19 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: I think we also have to look at the sale 20 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: of the Phoenix Suns and a little bit of what 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: happens there. I think also added a lot more eyeballs 22 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: to this particular deal. How much of this is more 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: rampant than you know, just you know United Wholesale. Is 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: this something that is more industry wide? Is an endemic 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: to that industry? It seems like a pretty fast space. No, 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: I feel like I can't make a comment on the 27 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: industry as a whole only as we've looked at sort 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: of this one corner of it. So over the course 29 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: of our reporting, we spoke with more than two dozen 30 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: people who have worked at United Wholesale Mortgage in recent years. 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: And Ishbia actually he takes over the company that was 32 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: founded by his father, and in the time that he's 33 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: running it, it really grows very quickly and it becomes 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: one of the largest originators of US mortgages. And that 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: is quite a seat when you're thinking about the world 36 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: scargoes of the world of banks, americas of the world's 37 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: to become one of the biggest players in that space. 38 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: So in our reporting, we looked at folks who worked 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: throughout the company, but primarily in the sales division and 40 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: then underwriting division. And what we heard from those folks 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: was that they described it as a high pressure, lock 42 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the room environment of a company. And several of those 43 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: people said that in the underwriting division, managers were treating 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: black workers differently from white workers. And then more broadly, 45 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: some employees told us that they were dealing with sexually 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: offensive remarks in the workplace, especially among the sales staff. 47 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: You know, one point I do want to make here, 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: and you're reporting you said that none of the current 49 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: and former UWM workers said that Shba himself used racial 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: slurs or sexually harassed employees. But Wholesale was named too 51 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: Fortune's Best Workplaces for Millennials, just back in twenty twenty, 52 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: not that long ago, right, I mean, and this is 53 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: a company that's been around for forty years. So you know, 54 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: my question is is this something that is new? Is 55 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: this something that happened under Mats wash to not his 56 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: father's watch. I mean, is this and again, is this 57 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: something that you know we might kind if we dig 58 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: a little bit deeper, you know, say, is endemic to 59 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: the space and to the industry. I know you really 60 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: can comment on that, but you know a lot of 61 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: those you know, let's call it disgruntled employees might be 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: coming out of the woodwork, so to speak. Well, I'll 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: started saying that, yes, the company was definitely on the 64 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: Fortune Best Workplaces for Millennials list, and they have actually 65 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: earned other awards. So it's important to note that it's 66 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: holt important to note that the company was very direct 67 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: and they believe that the story that we worked on 68 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: portrays a story that is false and misleading. And they 69 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: say that they have operated for almost twenty years and 70 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 1: that they have great people and that these are only 71 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: disfrontled employees who are coming forward to talk to us. 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: That's definitely true. Tell us a little bit more about 73 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: you know what you're reporting uncoverage. You know what kind 74 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: of things took place at the workplace? Was it? I guess? 75 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: Was it racist? Was it sexual? Was it all of 76 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: the above? Was it drug use? So, in interviewing be 77 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: more than two dozen employees who we spoke with, some 78 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: actually told us that they were working in an environment 79 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: where the managers were braiding their supportins and in some 80 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: cases those managers were making sexually suggestive remarks. And the 81 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: employees who we spoke with said that that combination things 82 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: really contributes to a hostile workplace. And in addition to that, 83 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: some former employees told us that they had seen repeated 84 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: cocaine use among the sales staff, as well as by 85 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: executives and managers who had influenced over their careers. And 86 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is something that's basically going on for 87 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean how long, I mean, how far back was 88 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: this taking place. In our article, we detail one event 89 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: that occurs in December nineteen, and in that case, an 90 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: employee told us that he saw a manager basically do 91 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: cocaine in front of him, and that that was something 92 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: that the employee was a little surprised to witness. Interesting. 93 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: I kind of don't know how to respond that myself, Polly, 94 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: but it seems it seems from your reporting, and by 95 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: the way, I mean, I have to tell all our 96 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: audience you must read this article. It is scathing in 97 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: some of the things that you know, Polly and our 98 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: team have uncovered here, and you know, they've done obviously 99 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: a fantastic job of just you know, trying to doubt 100 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: their eyes and across their teas, you know, and taken 101 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: within the context of where we are today, Polly, you know, 102 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: for companies like UWM, you know, I mean, with all 103 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: of the layoffs that are taking place, I mean, what 104 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: could we expect to hear from Matt and his team 105 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: going forward? You know what type of response, if any, 106 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, should we expect. Yeah, the company has been 107 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: very clear. They say they do not polerate cocaine and 108 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: drug use. They know that they operate a drug free campus, 109 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: and more broadly, they said that the company that they 110 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: have is one that is built on mutual trust, respect 111 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: and kindness. So I think it is important to remember 112 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: in this that the company really stands by their their workplace. 113 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the folks who we spoke 114 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: with m he actually described it as an office in 115 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: which he wondered if people are thing in Vegas to 116 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: air to make the employees happy. So, you know, there 117 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: is another side of this. The company stands by their workplace. 118 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: And you know, we do hope to learn more about 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: not just a non banklender, but non bank lenders in general, 120 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: and we have included a tipline in our article loan 121 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: Tips at Bloomberg dot met. We'd love to hear from 122 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: your listeners if they have any experiences, if they would 123 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: like to share just their views on this whole space 124 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: in the American economy. I mean, pobably, just such a 125 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: great piece of work here. Thank you so much for 126 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: joining us, and you have been listening to the Bloomberg 127 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: Business of Sports podcast, where we explore the big money 128 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports. I'm Damian SaaS Our 129 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can download the show every Monday, 130 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday by going to Bloomberg dot com, slash Podcasts, 131 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: or ever you get your podcasts.