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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the Myth,

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Speaker 1: the Legend, a resident Badass of the Week super producer,

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Speaker 1: mister Max.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that was me, Bang, I'm banging at the Max.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you're Noel Brown and I'm Ben Bowley.

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Speaker 2: And we're both somewhat here here. Suit your suit.

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Speaker 1: I have the words, you know, I recently moved and

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Speaker 1: I've got to find that box with my shaving kit.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 4: You just use a scissor, you know. I'm at the

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Speaker 4: point where I could just use he's a scissor. That's

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Speaker 4: crazy calling it a scissor. I mean, it is one thing.

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Speaker 4: It's two things that one thing make. Like a pair

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Speaker 4: of pants. I like to call pants a pant.

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Speaker 1: I've heard fashion fashion forward people call them pants.

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Speaker 4: I thought you were going to say the way fascists

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Speaker 4: talk about pants. That's a whole different.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole different episode. But we are going to

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Speaker 1: talk about something. You and I are both huge, huge

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Speaker 1: fans of badasses, and there might be a little language

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Speaker 1: in this one because we can't bleep out saying Badass.

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Speaker 4: No, it's necessary. Honestly, think Badass is totally PG. I

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Speaker 4: think it's PG not even PG thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Well, we're about to talk with an authority on that

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Speaker 1: very question and many other subjects. Of full disclosure, we

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Speaker 1: have been fans of this guest work for many, many years.

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Speaker 1: You know him as the creator of Badass of the Week.

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Speaker 1: You also know him through his numerous books he's written,

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Speaker 1: including things like Epic, the Epic Fails series, Guts and Glory,

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Speaker 1: you name it, follow Ridiculous Historians Welcome the world expert

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Speaker 1: on badassory, Ben Topsy.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, thank you so much for having me on

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Speaker 3: the show. I'm gonna say that I'm ridiculously happy to

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Speaker 3: be here. Has that joke been made a bunch? Or

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Speaker 3: is never the first? Am already off the note? We'll

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Speaker 3: give you another shot.

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Speaker 4: No, It's It's pretty cool though, man, because we kind

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Speaker 4: of come from the same like Internet one point zero

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Speaker 4: kind of background like with how stuff works, you know,

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Speaker 4: and just this sort of edutainment sort of like realm

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Speaker 4: of like articles that are trying to explain either history

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Speaker 4: or science or whatever in an approachable way. So we're

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Speaker 4: definitely kindred in that respect. How stuff works was maybe

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Speaker 4: a little little more reverent. Let's just say the badass

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Speaker 4: of the week. But you gotta tell us. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you just said before we came on the you know

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Speaker 4: that you've been running the site for like going on

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Speaker 4: twenty plus years.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like nineteen years, been coming up on

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Speaker 3: twenty next year. So yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy to

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Speaker 3: be thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: What inspired it? I mean, I'm sure it's a question

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Speaker 1: get all the time, but like, what's the origin story?

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Speaker 1: Were you walking by somewhere and someone did something really badass?

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Speaker 3: No? I just you know, I studied history in college.

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Speaker 3: I've always just kind of loved these types of stories, right,

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Speaker 3: and you know, my dad was a big history guy,

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Speaker 3: so he was really into you know, he had like

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Speaker 3: this awesome like weapons and armor collection and would be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is an old like this is a Roman, you know,

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Speaker 3: replica of a Roman Gladius, and here's how you would

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Speaker 3: have fought with it. You stick them in like this.

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Speaker 3: And I thought that stuff was cool. And he'd start

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Speaker 3: telling me like fun little stories about things, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I kind of always think that anybody who loves history

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Speaker 3: had somebody who could make it real for you.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do a lot of talks at schools for

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Speaker 3: the Guts and Glory series, and I always say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of history is just a bunch

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Speaker 3: of old, dead white guys and you have to memorize

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Speaker 3: their birthdays. And so if you can make it more

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Speaker 3: than that, I think that's really cool. And that's something

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Speaker 3: that you know, for me, I was just I had

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Speaker 3: done history in college, and I liked these stories and

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Speaker 3: I would read them for fun. And I was working

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Speaker 3: some cubicle job, think like Neo and the Matrix or

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Speaker 3: like you know, office space they think is kind of

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Speaker 3: the best analogy to what I was doing, and I

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Speaker 3: just had free time and I would just post these

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Speaker 3: little things on the internet, and you know, I'd get

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Speaker 3: four hits a week on my website and it would

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Speaker 3: be me three times, and then my mom and you know, and.

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Speaker 2: Then when when did it kind of turn?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 4: Like when was that moment where you're like, oh, wait

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Speaker 4: a minute, now, what's going on here?

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Speaker 3: It kind of came out of nowhere. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: it really did. Like I remember the first time somebody

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Speaker 3: I'd never met before set me an email because this

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Speaker 3: is even this pre dates Facebook and YouTube and all

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Speaker 3: that stuff, right, two thousand and four, and so remember

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Speaker 3: somebody sent me an email. I was like, hey, your

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Speaker 3: website's pretty cool. I was like so happy. I printed

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Speaker 3: it out and like thumbtack to the cubicle wall. I

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Speaker 3: thought that was cool. And then uh yeah, then it

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Speaker 3: was that it was like I was getting ten hits

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Speaker 3: a week and one hundred, and then at some point

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Speaker 3: it's just kind of went nuts. And one day it

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Speaker 3: was just like I'm getting a million hits a month

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Speaker 3: on my website and I'm just some idiot typing stuff

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Speaker 3: up on my computer.

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Speaker 4: And you know, welcome, welcome to the club. We're all

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Speaker 4: just some idiot to somebody. We are very special, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, as a consumer all of us,

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Speaker 4: I think of podcasts and internet writing.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, there.

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Speaker 4: Are we have relationships with these folks that make them

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Speaker 4: almost feel like celebrities in our minds. Like there's a

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Speaker 4: handful of podcasts that I follow that if I met

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Speaker 4: the person who I spend you know, a bunch of

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Speaker 4: my week listening to, I would fanboy out, you know,

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Speaker 4: And it's not a famous person it's literally some idiot

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Speaker 4: on the internet, and like, this is my idiot.

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Speaker 1: Though you know, I fanboyed a little. We should be

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Speaker 1: we should be clear with the with our fellow ridiculous

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Speaker 1: historians tuning in today. It was off air, but I

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Speaker 1: fanboyd just because Ben. We're both named Ben.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Off to a great start and have been reading your

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Speaker 1: website for some time, and I think you really nailed

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Speaker 1: it when you said, we're sort of we're humanizing history, right,

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Speaker 1: We're giving you the soul behind the names and the dates.

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Speaker 1: And when we were talking and figured out we were

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to have you on thanks to the podcast

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Speaker 1: that you're working on with us. You gave us a

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Speaker 1: couple of different folks, a couple like a short list

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Speaker 1: draft picks of that ass is that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people may not have heard of. And there's one that

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Speaker 1: stood out to us for a couple of different reasons.

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Speaker 1: I might surprise people. We have to ask tai Jin.

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Speaker 1: Is that how it's pronounced?

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Speaker 2: Guess?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure there's accent marks there that I

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Speaker 3: wasn't able to find the character.

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Speaker 4: The most important and easier to pronounce part is the

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Speaker 4: kung fu wear wolf let's just can't be confused with

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Speaker 4: the CNA Ti Jen, which is good, yeah, or the

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Speaker 4: teen Wolf or the teen Wolf, although it probably was

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Speaker 4: a bit of a teen when he got started, but

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Speaker 4: I got it before we did dive into the story

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Speaker 4: of Tai Jen. Do you have like a badass checklist?

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Speaker 4: Like what what doth a badass make? Or what doth

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Speaker 4: make a badass?

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Speaker 3: That was a really hard one for me, right because

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Speaker 3: you know, I'd been doing the website for maybe ten

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Speaker 3: years or so, and when I guess it was the

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Speaker 3: book came out in two thousand and nine, so I

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Speaker 3: guess I've been doing the website for five years. And

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Speaker 3: I wrote the book, and I'd written forty chapters for

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Speaker 3: the first Badass book, and then my editor was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: well now you need an introduction where you define what

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Speaker 3: a badass is. And I was like, I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, this isn't read this story, isn't this

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Speaker 3: a badass? I don't know what to tell you, man, Like,

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Speaker 3: so I had to kind of sit there and look

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Speaker 3: at like, Okay, I've got Leonidas, I've got Vladdian Paler,

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Speaker 3: I've got Joan of Arc and I've got Horatio Nelson, Like,

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Speaker 3: what do all of these people have in common? Right?

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Speaker 3: You know, what does George Patton have in common with

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Speaker 3: Genghis Khan? I guess that's an easy one, but like,

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Speaker 3: you know, what does he have in common with Nicola Tesla?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, right, And so I had to really

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Speaker 3: sit down and think about it, and I think the

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Speaker 3: answer was perseverance of just just you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: really matter what it is you're trying to accomplish, as

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Speaker 3: long as you just go all out, like balls to

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Speaker 3: the wall all the time for it and you know,

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Speaker 3: get knocked down. Yeah, it's a nasty that's a that's

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Speaker 3: a that's a better word.

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Speaker 4: Because some of these figures you wouldn't necessarily consider like

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Speaker 4: the good guys of history. Some of these folks are

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Speaker 4: flawed and possibly quite on.

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Speaker 2: The evil side of things, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that was it, right? Jan of RK's

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Speaker 3: a Roman Catholic saint, and Vladian Tylor was criminally insane.

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Speaker 1: Right right? And this is like this is strange too,

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Speaker 1: because one thing that I really respect about your mission here,

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Speaker 1: Ben is that it never right. There's always like, once

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Speaker 1: you've got that metric, you're describing or that kind of checklist.

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Speaker 1: As Noel said, then you can find the most amazing

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Speaker 1: acts of bad assory in all corners of the world,

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Speaker 1: throughout all cultures. And that's something that you know when

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Speaker 1: you were starting this, did you think I'm gonna run

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Speaker 1: out of bad asses or did you think this is

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Speaker 1: gonna continue? I mean, I'm sure you get suggestions all

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Speaker 1: the time from people who are like, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: who is a badass? My uncle Larry.

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Speaker 3: I do get a lot of that. I get a

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Speaker 3: lot of Really, my grandpa fought in World War two,

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Speaker 3: and I have some letters from him whenld you write

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Speaker 3: about him and it's like, yeah, I mean maybe I'll

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Speaker 3: look into it, right, And so yeah, I get tons

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Speaker 3: of suggestions. I have just an inexhaustible list and forget

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Speaker 3: about just like you know, there's all there's the big

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Speaker 3: ones you have to hit, the main guys in women

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Speaker 3: that you have to talk about the great badasses of history.

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Speaker 3: But it was also weird behind the scenes stuff and

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Speaker 3: role players and little mini stories and things that get uncovered.

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Speaker 3: And on top of that, like people are doing badass

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Speaker 3: stuff all the time. So a lot of stuff has

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Speaker 3: happened since two thousand and four. That was badass that

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Speaker 3: I probably could just make this like a news show

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Speaker 3: about the badass thing that happened this week. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's all kinds of green happening all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, screenlt.

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Speaker 4: I think what has our cutoff been? Apartheid? Roughly ninety Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: mid nineties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I was sort of arbitrary, but we did the story

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Speaker 4: about this the gorilla that was sort of like a

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Speaker 4: hero gorilla in South Africa during apartheid, and I personally

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Speaker 4: was woefully underread on apartheid, and then realize what an absolute,

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Speaker 4: you know, monstrous event it was historically speaking, like on

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Speaker 4: the scale of something like a World war, like a

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Speaker 4: Holocaust situation, and then to realize that that was happening

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Speaker 4: like in our modern era. Basically we were alive for it,

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Speaker 4: and we were like, you know what, we're cutting it

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Speaker 4: off here.

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Speaker 2: Nothing past nineteen ninety four shall go in the show.

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Speaker 4: And of course we can move that scale as time progresses.

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Speaker 4: But I do think it's interesting the idea of what

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Speaker 4: is history? Obviously you always quote what is it?

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Speaker 2: Falconer? Yeah, history has never passed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the past, the past has thought over the past

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Speaker 1: isn't even pasted right something like that.

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Speaker 2: I mean history, we're in it right now, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're living it right now.

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Speaker 4: But there's you know, for the purposes of curating a show,

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Speaker 4: probably smart to have some rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but there is always stuff though, right, Like I mean,

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Speaker 3: a part time is pretty brutal, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of like examples of really deep and heavy and kind

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Speaker 3: of dark stuff to get in date like I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: it's kind of be on the scope of what I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to do with badass and what you guys, I think,

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Speaker 3: are probably trying to do too. But there are heroic

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Speaker 3: stories in there, right Like you can look at what's

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Speaker 3: happening in Ukraine right now. There's some really heroic stuff

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Speaker 3: happening right now. And even though it's kind of a

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Speaker 3: dark chapter. But yeah, what you said, right, you gotta

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Speaker 3: you gotta call it somewhere.

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Speaker 1: I think this is our way in guys, because another

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Speaker 1: thing that you do is you approach this with scholarship,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I'm sure in some

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Speaker 1: of those cases, you know, you said something really interesting,

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Speaker 1: he said, I will read the letter, you know, Like sure,

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Speaker 1: I'll read the correspondence I'll check it out. But you

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Speaker 1: also are very upfront about what can and cannot be confirmed.

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Speaker 1: You interrogate the sources as well. We respect that, and

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Speaker 1: that is in a way part of part of why

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about the Kung Fu wear Wolf.

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Speaker 1: It's just like what a name. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: when I was younger been my dream job was to

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Speaker 1: be a werewolf astronaut on the moon. I was not

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Speaker 1: a very clever child.

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Speaker 4: You got the beard. Now you're halfway there. I'm shaving

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Speaker 4: this as soon as I find.

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Speaker 2: And only then will I stop talking about God.

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Speaker 4: No, but where's That's the way Kung Fu were Wolf reads.

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Speaker 2: It's like a b move.

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Speaker 3: Really like so, I mean that's the sequel to the movie.

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Speaker 3: That's the sequel to the Kung Fu Werewolf movie? Is

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Speaker 3: kung Fu Werewolf astronaut or Koko.

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Speaker 2: Like Leprechaun? You know, like he went all kinds of places?

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Speaker 4: So I think now is the perfect time, Like you said,

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Speaker 4: then we talked about some of the research and how

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Speaker 4: you know, sometimes the sources can be a little thin,

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Speaker 4: but sometimes that's what makes a story into almost more

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Speaker 4: like lore than it is, like actually a historical account,

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Speaker 4: and I think we run into stories like that all

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Speaker 4: the time, and the Kung Fu Werewolf of Shaolin at

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Speaker 4: that part myself, is just such a tale, and I

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Speaker 4: think this is a great time to really get right

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Speaker 4: into it. So Ben, give us the broad strokes, like

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Speaker 4: how can PETI even set the story up?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I am going to preface this by saying

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Speaker 3: that the sources here are a mess. So I've started

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Speaker 3: up a podcast of my own Badass of the Week

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Speaker 3: through through your Guys' network, through iHeart and my co

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Speaker 3: host there she is a professor of history, so she's

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Speaker 3: kind of good at fact checking me on this as well,

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Speaker 3: which kind of helps. But okay, yes, for kung Fu

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Speaker 3: were Wolf tai Jin, Yeah, it's a mess. This is

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Speaker 3: a kind of a disaster of sources that are you know,

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Speaker 3: all over the place. You know, I'm gonna tell the

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Speaker 3: good parts that are in there, even though I can't

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Speaker 3: verify a lot of them, and I'll try to stipulate

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Speaker 3: where and when I'm kind of providing something that is

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Speaker 3: probably more along the lines of mythology and legend and

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Speaker 3: possibly the you know. The source here was some basically

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Speaker 3: action novel that was written in the late eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 3: and you know, maybe it's based off a true story.

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Speaker 3: It says it's a based off a true story, but

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Speaker 3: so does Tarzan, So I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know, you know, fair point.

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Speaker 3: So it's gonna be kind of a mess, but it

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Speaker 3: is going to be an opportunity for us to talk

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Speaker 3: were wolves, shellon, munks, kung fu, you know, anchient China uh,

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Speaker 3: and skincare issues or skin diseases.

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Speaker 1: So for everyone who's wondering how those threads come together,

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Speaker 1: they we gotcha.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So ti Jin he was born in the

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Speaker 3: province of Fuki in China in eighteen forty nine to

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Speaker 3: a family of peasant farmers, and he as a very

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Speaker 3: young child coming out he is afflicted with a real

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Speaker 3: life a disease that we now know today as hypertrichosis,

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Speaker 3: which you know, the beard thing is a great segue

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Speaker 3: into this because hypertrichosis just means it's a broad term

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Speaker 3: that just means a lot of body hair or a

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Speaker 3: lot of hair somewhere. So the clinical term for what

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Speaker 3: this child had was congenital hypertrichosis lanuguinosa, which is just

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Speaker 3: when you have you're just totally covered in hair everywhere

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Speaker 3: your entire body, entire body, face, like some people get

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Speaker 3: it on their eye lids. It affects men and women.

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Speaker 3: It's the real thing that people suffer from. There's maybe

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Speaker 3: only about fifty documented cases of it in human history,

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Speaker 3: but it is like genetics, so you people who have

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Speaker 3: it can pass it on, which is kind of any.

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Speaker 4: There was a family in Latin America. I want to say, yes,

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Speaker 4: I also had this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. His name was Petro's Gonzales, and he was a

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Speaker 3: small child that was on the Canary Islands and he

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Speaker 3: was found by an Italian king and brought to this

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Speaker 3: court in Italy and he same thing, had hair covering

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Speaker 3: his entire body, and the uh.

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Speaker 4: There's images of him wearing kind of like Elizabethan like

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Speaker 4: ruffs and stuff, right.

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Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, paintings of him so he

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Speaker 3: was so interesting. Yeah, they had they had paintings made

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Speaker 3: of him. So he's in sorry, excuse me, it wasn't Italy.

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Speaker 3: He goes to France, so he is presented to King

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Speaker 3: Henry the third of France, who's just kind of like

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Speaker 3: mind blown. I guess the French found this kid on

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Speaker 3: the Canary Islands, where like this is cool, took him

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Speaker 3: from his home and gave him to the King of France.

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Speaker 3: And the King of France was like, this is interesting.

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Speaker 3: That's a pretty That's something they don't see every day.

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Speaker 1: That's so weird too, just to think about being presented

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Speaker 1: to the king. It's like, you're the you're the king

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Speaker 1: of this world power, but you also somehow are still

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Speaker 1: doing a variety late night show, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's like and our next guest like get in a

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Speaker 1: Hillary situation.

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Speaker 4: Whoever brought him out had to have like some sort

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Speaker 4: of serious preamble. It's now presented for the pleasure of

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Speaker 4: his majesty, the seventh Wander of the world, the Wolfman

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Speaker 4: of Borneo.

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Speaker 2: Or whatever you know.

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Speaker 1: And then after and then we will be followed by

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Speaker 1: a cheese course, a juggler, and a.

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Speaker 2: Fool and then proceed to the vomitory. Exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's totally that though. I mean, that's one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: of what it was, right weird.

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Speaker 2: These people are are like children, that's all I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Garrett, And they didn't have TV. What are you

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Speaker 3: gonna do all day? You're rich? You got no, you

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Speaker 3: don't you don't work it? Right?

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Speaker 1: What are the presentations that grow wary.

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Speaker 3: You don't have like video games on your phone. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what you do. I don't know what to

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Speaker 3: do back then.

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Speaker 1: So there's this real guy and this guy is a

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Speaker 1: I've heard a little bit about this guy. So he

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Speaker 1: is who's originally enslaved, I think, which is how they

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Speaker 1: how they got him in the first place. But I

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Speaker 1: had heard and Ben, maybe you can, uh, you can

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Speaker 1: tell us how likely or unlikely this is. I had

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Speaker 1: heard this guy Petrus might have been a part of

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Speaker 1: the inspiration for stories like Beauty and the Beast. Is

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Speaker 1: there any Santaz?

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Speaker 3: So there's some of that. So he's interesting because the

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Speaker 3: King of France decides that he wants you were right,

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Speaker 3: he was enslaved, and the King of France wants him

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Speaker 3: to go to school. He's like, give him a formal education.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, this is a thing that comes up

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Speaker 3: a lot, and we're doing a little bit with the

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Speaker 3: Kung Fu werewolf thing, but like he's a he's a

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Speaker 3: real person. He's a human being, and people are kind

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Speaker 3: of are like, is he an animal? Is he what?

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Speaker 3: Is he's a missing leak kind of thing? Is here?

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Speaker 3: Is he had? Is he had is this some kind

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Speaker 3: of satanic thing happening? There is all kinds of weird speculation.

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Speaker 3: He's getting poked and prodded by all these doctors who

387
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Speaker 3: are trying to figure out what's happening here because we

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Speaker 3: now know that it's a mutation of the X chromosome,

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Speaker 3: but they weren't quite there yet in fifteen sixty five

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Speaker 3: or whatever, right, right, right, And so the King's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: let's give him a formal education and see if he

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Speaker 3: can learn, like just to see if we can do that.

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Speaker 3: And and he can. He's a person, right, He he

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Speaker 3: speaks French and Latin, he learns court etiquette, He dresses,

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Speaker 3: you know, in those fancy clothes we see. He marries

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Speaker 3: like he gets married to like a nice French woman

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Speaker 3: and has kids who are also harry a boy and

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Speaker 3: a girl, and they both have the same thing. He's

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Speaker 3: passed it on to them and they they're covered in hair. Also,

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Speaker 3: So there exists in places like yeah, like he got

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Speaker 3: his portrait painted, but there's.

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Speaker 1: Picture and he looks quite gangster in this. It looks

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Speaker 1: like is you know, you have to wonder how history

404
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Speaker 1: would treat him if there was a single drawing of

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Speaker 1: him smiling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is not.

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Speaker 1: He's always like, I mean, he had a hard life.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, he's here just kind of broody, I think.

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Speaker 3: Plus, back then you have to deal with like the

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Speaker 3: old timey cameras and the old portraits and stuff.

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Speaker 2: They're rarely completely still.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you got a hold totally still. Right, So even

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Speaker 3: if you had a smile, you can't keep like the

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Speaker 3: same dumb smile on your face for the twelve hours

415
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Speaker 3: it takes this guy to paint your portrait. You just

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Speaker 3: got to be able to stand there pretty motionless.

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Speaker 4: And so you you might argue that there is more

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Speaker 4: historical context and evidence around Gonzales than there is about

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Speaker 4: the Gung Fu wear wolf.

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Speaker 3: Right, way more, because I mean, we have people that

421
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Speaker 3: went to their house like they were they were operating

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Speaker 3: in Italy and in France. And he becomes known as

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Speaker 3: Don Pietro because he gets like, you know, everybody likes him.

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Speaker 3: Once he gets the chance to schmooze with the royalty.

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Speaker 3: They all like him. Get he has a family. They're

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Speaker 3: kind of like professional people who hang around medieval courts

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Speaker 3: in the fifteen hundreds or whatever. And yeah, and he

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Speaker 3: has kids, and people will go and draw him. There's

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Speaker 3: lots of drawings of his children and stuff, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: they do.

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Speaker 2: His kids have the same condition you mentioned that being genetically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, both of his son and his daughter had it.

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Speaker 3: And so there's pictures of a little girl wearing Elizabethan

434
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 3: costume and she's got hair all over her face and

435
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, right, like there's it's pretty wild. But yeah,

436
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 3: they hang around in castles, and in addition to Beauty

437
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 3: and the Beast, there's a chance that they kind of

438
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 3: lean into the the actual like werewolf mythology as we

439
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: know it, because wherewolf mythology dates back to ancient Greece, right,

440
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 3: the the the werewolves h the werewolf the original the

441
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 3: o g werewolf story is a guy named like Chaon

442
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: who who tried to appease Zeus by killing his own

443
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 3: son and offering the entrails to Zeus and that made

444
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,360
Speaker 3: Zeus mad and yeah, like you have presented incorrectly.

445
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: I need a different presentation.

446
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 2: Different organ please, like aanthropy right right, Yeah.

447
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 3: So he became like known as Zeus like chaos because

448
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: like Cane was the king of a place called like Hostra,

449
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: and the Zeus of that town turned people into wolves.

450
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 3: If you offered them in trails, or if you killed,

451
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 3: if you tried to eat people or stuff like that.

452
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: And the deal like that.

453
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: You pointing out. I like that you're pointing out the

454
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: Zeus of that town. Yes, I might surprise some people.

455
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: What do we mean by that?

456
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 3: Because there's a different different in different towns where everybody

457
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 3: was was capable of worshiping Zeus in their own special ways,

458
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 3: and so the different towns had the different chapels and

459
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 3: temples or whatever that that had different ways of worshiping Zeus.

460
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: And I can respect that styling on it a little bit.

461
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: We all crap our pants in this town for Zeus.

462
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and as long as you're putting money in

463
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 3: the offering plate, like he.

464
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: Don't care, thank you for coming to the annual.

465
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 4: Craping pants are our number one export is pants.

466
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: In pairs and singles and singles.

467
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, So that's where the like chanthropy comes from,

468
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: is that that Zeus. And the deal was you turned

469
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 3: into a wolf for nine years, and if you could

470
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 3: stay a wolf for nine years without eating anybody, you

471
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: got turned back into a human. What I don't know,

472
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: you don't like you or whatever?

473
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 4: Okay, people but there was no none of the whole

474
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 4: like transformation based on a lunar cycle was.

475
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: Nothing like that you were for you or a person

476
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 3: even like Saint Augustine at one point said, which is,

477
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 3: we're capable of turning people into wolves and back again.

478
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 3: But there was no hybrid mix except for like that

479
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 3: starts to show up around this time. And there's a

480
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: dude in who is in France at the same time

481
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 3: as Petris. He's named Giles Garnier. He's called the werewolf

482
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: of Dolay because he killed an eight, like a half

483
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 3: dozen children and people said he could like turn into

484
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 3: a wolf and back again. And he was this crazy

485
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: hermit that was killing and eating kids. And he is

486
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: existing close to Petrius Gonzalez around the same time as him.

487
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 3: And there's some discussion as to whether this is where

488
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: the wolfman hybrid idea comes from, but we don't know.

489
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something else we see in other countries

490
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: in Europe. Who's that guy Germany? Peter Stump I believe

491
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: from a previous previous thing we did on stuff they

492
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: don't want you to know about, like Canton Uh. He

493
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: is also an alleged you know, canibal serial killer very

494
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: nasty customer. But how does this Okay, so how does

495
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: this all work out for our boy Petris before we

496
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: even get to tij In. Like Petris is, he's gonna

497
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: get lumped in with these folks, right.

498
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: Not as much as you'd think, because I was trying

499
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 3: to find a link there too. He's more like the

500
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: beast and beauty and the beast, but this is kind

501
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 3: of like but he does exist in this world and

502
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 3: in this space where this is happening, and you know,

503
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 3: and there's also like there's it's also entirely possible. There's

504
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 3: no connection. Right when you were talking about Germany, like

505
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 3: the Vikings and the Germans, they wore like wolf press

506
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 3: into battle as berserkers. Yeah, and so that could be

507
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 3: where the wolfman thing comes from. We don't know for

508
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 3: sure any of this stuff, but but it is interesting

509
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: that this guy Garnier was literally burned at the steak

510
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: for being a werewolf during the lifetime of Petris Gonzalez.

511
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: So I don't know that's that's gonna be. That's gonna

512
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: be nuts too, for Petris and for the people in

513
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: the court because imagine, you know, at this time in

514
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: Europe you've probably seen a wolf. You've definitely seen a dude,

515
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: and so people working with the information at the time,

516
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: of course you would think he's a ware wolf.

517
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean remember the whole story of the Beast

518
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: of yea Brotherhood of the Wolf, Brotherhood of the Wolf.

519
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 4: Obviously wayt style on that story, but it's the same

520
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: thing we run into all the time, and stuff they

521
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 4: don't want you to know. When it comes to cryptids.

522
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 4: It's usually the misidentification of a commonly seen thing, or

523
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 4: there's some weird religious context that's wrapped up in it,

524
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 4: or some kind of paranoia or superstition that turns some

525
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 4: eyewitness account of like what is ultimately just kind of

526
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 4: a burly wolf into like some sort of monstrous beasts.

527
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: And that kind of thinking.

528
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 4: While it seems like surprisingly I guess this was during

529
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: kind of Enlightenment era, they were pretty nice to this guy.

530
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 4: I mean like they raised him up in the court

531
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: and treated him like a human if if he was

532
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 4: presented at first more like an oddity, that ultimately kind

533
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: of went away and you would not typically think of,

534
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: you know, historical Europeans being quite so open minded as that, right.

535
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: Right, right exactly, because that would be it was my

536
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: thought too. It's like, oh, this must be like, you know, related,

537
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: but no, no, I mean he seems like, you know,

538
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: he kind of was able to overcome people's initial reaction

539
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: to him and kind of just carve out in ordinary

540
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 3: life as a as a guy who lives in the

541
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: hangs out with the aristocracy of France and Italy, which

542
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: is cool, which is kind of a good segue back

543
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: into our guy ties in that we want to talk about.

544
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: I got to say this right before we switch. It

545
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: just hit me our boy Petris must have been an

546
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: amazing people person Like this guy must have had a

547
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: real personality that doesn't come across in the drawings, because

548
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: he must convince he convinced France that he was cool.

549
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, I know where wolves will be getting

550
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: a lot of bad press, right, but uh but the

551
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: were wolf of the people think of me as like

552
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: a where dude.

553
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, you can all hang seventeen charisma.

554
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's just there.

555
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: It's kind of fantastic.

556
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 4: So I think you you picked the exact right time

557
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: to segue back into and again we switchep this up

558
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: as talking about ti Jen, but I think in general,

559
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 4: where it was talking about cool where dudes, uh history,

560
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 4: and there aren't a ton of them, as he pointed out,

561
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 4: But Tijen, you know, he is born.

562
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 3: And was able to make at it was starting point

563
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: guard in high school. Right.

564
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 4: That was by the way, I was googling a little

565
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: bit about this stuff, and you know how it'll tell

566
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: you suggested or other people asked, it says what was

567
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: movie about high school were Wolf? And the answers to

568
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: is teen Wolf. Oh, it's also teen Wolf too, which

569
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: was which had a Jason Bateman was in teen Wolf Too,

570
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: that race from Memory Purpose. Yeah, he was a very young,

571
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 4: up and coming actor at the time. People forget about

572
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: that though. But ti Jen born in ancient China, again,

573
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 4: a civilization society very much focused on things like evil spirits,

574
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 4: things like malevolent forces, and probably a little bit of

575
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: a oh shit moment when you know your your wife

576
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: gives birth to a completely hairy infant. You might think

577
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 4: maybe it wasn't even human at all. I meant, it

578
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 4: comes out right who you've been hanging out with. But seriously,

579
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 4: what how did that go over in this birthing situation?

580
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's eighteen seventy six, so it's it's a

581
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: couple hundred years after Petris. So there's a photograph that

582
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: is purported to be of this guy. So he's he's

583
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: kind of like post Civil War is like the time

584
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: period that we're in. But we're also in very rural China.

585
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, and and I'd like to correct myself. I

586
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: did say ancient China, but I guess in my mind,

587
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 4: when you're in that rural part of that part of

588
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 4: the similar for all intensive purposes, you're operating with some

589
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: of the same machinery, both literally and figuratively, as you

590
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: were in those days.

591
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, either way, they didn't have access to the American

592
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: Journal of Human Genetics article of that kind of explains

593
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: that this is that this is the mutation on the

594
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: X chromosome. Yeah, you're right, you nailed it. They thought

595
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: demon this is the work of demons or something, and

596
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 3: so they left the baby out into the forest to die.

597
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: And that was the indid okay.

598
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: What they call exposure, yes, which which we've seen in

599
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: other other cultures. If a if a member of a

600
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: community is seen as too aberrant, or if they're seen

601
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: as maybe too much of a liability, then it would

602
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: be common or not infrequent for those people to be

603
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: left in the woods, and it was seen as more

604
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: humane than actually killing them.

605
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: And it's the stuff of myth and fable these when

606
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 4: these babies are found and then raised by wolves or whomever.

607
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: Exactly.

608
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but okay, so we've got so this kid infant

609
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: really is left out in wild in in rural China.

610
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: Obviously it's defenseless. Uh, given that it's just been introduced

611
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: to life, things aren't looking good.

612
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, as the parents of like a little a little

613
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: a little two year old, now, like I can't like

614
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: kids are kids are worthless for the first like six months.

615
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: I don't know how and I don't know how any

616
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: humans ever managed to like walk this earth and make

617
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: it past that first stage. But but yeah, so yeah,

618
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: two things happen. You die of exposure or you accidentally

619
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: create a Spartan warrior, which is what's going to happen here.

620
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: And we've got to uh, we've got to hold the

621
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: phone here, We've got a.

622
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: Pause holding it. Yeah.

623
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: Uh, we had such a good time that we we

624
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: knew we would have to spend more time with our

625
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: pal Ben.

626
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

627
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: More or less preemptive two parter, I would say, I mean, maybe, okay,

628
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 4: maybe we could. Maybe we didn't know going But then

629
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: as we started watching the clock and seeing how the

630
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: conversation progressed, and then it kind of neatly snipped out

631
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: into two sort of discreete conversations, we figured we would

632
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 4: do that and make it be Badass of.

633
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: The Week week Badass of the Week week on Ridiculous History. Big,

634
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams. Big

635
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: thanks to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister.

636
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: Oh h what my wolf? Y'all?

637
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: Big thanks to kung Fu Howls, big thanks to what

638
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: would that be? Where Wolf kung Fu would be like howlf.

639
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: Kung Fu pandas and monks Wu Tang you.

640
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: Know, unclear if any of these references land. These may

641
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: not have occurred.

642
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: It's okay, we're doing a little bit of stage setting,

643
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 4: a little bit of foreshadowing, but yeah, huge thanks to you, Ben,

644
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 4: and also to Badass Ben for being our guest.

645
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks.

646
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

647
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

648
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: It was