Speaker 1: John, How are you buddy? Hello, I'm good. How are
Speaker 1: you go ahead? I'm doing well. Have you got a
Speaker 1: Captain America sheld in the back? I do? Look a
Speaker 1: look for the sword. Yes it is. I don't even
Speaker 1: have one of those. That's amazing. And what's the one
Speaker 1: that's all chipped up on the side. No way, it
Speaker 1: was an actual fighting one, huh. I bought it. I
Speaker 1: got a bunch of stuff from the auction sports which
Speaker 1: I gave one away to charity for charity auction. That
Speaker 1: a couple of Stellars that I gave to the writing
Speaker 1: staff that I know Taylor actually has yours cat. No way, Wow,
Speaker 1: that's so took mine away from me. We've talked about
Speaker 1: this on the podcast quite a bit because I wrote
Speaker 1: so many in season one, I just mystically didn't have
Speaker 1: one every season in season one was just a little fragile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it turns out, John, it's such a pleasure to have
Speaker 1: you one. Thank you for taking the time to when
Speaker 1: Chats was happy to be a part of this all.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. Welcome back, folks, to return to the Shadows. Today,
Speaker 1: we have a very special guest, one of the magical
Speaker 1: people behind the scenes of our show who We truly
Speaker 1: could not have done this without John Rackett, our location manager. Welcome,
Speaker 1: thank you. I'm glad to be a part of the show.
Speaker 1: Come on the podcast and be part of the show.
Speaker 1: Hopefully I have to correct something technically. I think I'm
Speaker 1: one of the three long people that have been on
Speaker 1: the show longer than anyone else. Yeah. So the show
Speaker 1: started filming in August. I started in March of that year.
Speaker 1: There you go. You were hired before us. Yeah, actually
Speaker 1: we were. I remember when they were trying to cast it.
Speaker 1: Can I make it even weirder? I was a location
Speaker 1: scout on the movie WHOA. Well I did know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I knew that you were the location scout on the
Speaker 1: movie because I feel like we've spoken about that at
Speaker 1: some point, because we doubled some of the locations, right,
Speaker 1: like we changed them, but we Yeah, there was a
Speaker 1: couple that we used in too many thankfully. Yeah. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wow. There was a few things in season one.
Speaker 1: I remember that We're that we used in both that
Speaker 1: were very quickly in season two. Not locations, but like
Speaker 1: the swords. The swords were swords from the movie the swords,
Speaker 1: the props, the glass and the institute actually was recycled
Speaker 1: from another movie. No way, do you know what the
Speaker 1: movie was? Resident five? That makes sense because constantly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the there was a huge set we had where
Speaker 1: um Neiler runs through a tunnel of glass and they
Speaker 1: spent a lot of money on all this glass, so
Speaker 1: they put in storage and someone it came tyme to
Speaker 1: build this set. They went, we have this glass, and
Speaker 1: nobody thought that it wasn't the right glass. It wasn't gimbaled,
Speaker 1: which is why we had all those reflection problems and
Speaker 1: the heat, and just let and put everyone inside it.
Speaker 1: Who knew? Who knew? This is just the things you
Speaker 1: figure out when you're on set. But it was the
Speaker 1: It was the hardest thing is when we saw these
Speaker 1: trailers come in that said are on them, like what
Speaker 1: it's And then the stuff from the mortal instruments they
Speaker 1: basically just recycled as much as they could because they
Speaker 1: kept it all as well, you know, it's already got
Speaker 1: all the rings on it. And then season until we've
Speaker 1: got rid of it all and fixed it. Yeah, before
Speaker 1: before we dive headlong into a reunion that we've all
Speaker 1: been longing to have. John, why don't you tell everyone
Speaker 1: at home, what your position was on on Shadow Hunters,
Speaker 1: what you did, what your day to day was. So
Speaker 1: I was hired as the location manager for pretty much
Speaker 1: almost all the show, which I can cover later. Um So,
Speaker 1: my the job location edge is we basically take this
Speaker 1: script and the concept and the ideas that the writers
Speaker 1: the producers have in the production designer and find practical
Speaker 1: real world locations to film this and to make it
Speaker 1: part of the story, part of the character. Um So
Speaker 1: that literally was my job was to get the script,
Speaker 1: to break it down and pitch ideas that we then
Speaker 1: see whether they work or not. And then being television,
Speaker 1: we then since we had most of the scripts, we
Speaker 1: could see what we would go to enough times to
Speaker 1: necessary to build what was going to be on location,
Speaker 1: and then literally with the creatives try to find things
Speaker 1: that work for the story, the look. And then once
Speaker 1: we secure all that, the location department job changes very
Speaker 1: much from creative to logistics. Were then responsible for permits,
Speaker 1: permissions where the unit goes, where that everyone eats, where
Speaker 1: the bathrooms go, all the unsexy parts of the actual
Speaker 1: making of a production. But so it's interesting we've had
Speaker 1: a few a few different crew members on over the
Speaker 1: course of and very often that same phrase kind of
Speaker 1: gets recycled with crew right. Very often it's that you know,
Speaker 1: this is the unsexy behind this means part. But what
Speaker 1: people need to realize is that TV shows aren't made
Speaker 1: without these unsexy parts, like they just don't function on
Speaker 1: a TV show. That will remain nameless and how long
Speaker 1: ago will remain nameless because otherwise you can backtrack and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, he did this six years ago. It
Speaker 1: is exactly what it was. It wasn't six years ago.
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm talking about. But they didn't put
Speaker 1: they didn't have crew bathrooms. We were shooting on on
Speaker 1: a New York street and we were we were filming
Speaker 1: somewhere quite far away from that, and it it brought
Speaker 1: everything kind of to a halt when we figured it
Speaker 1: out like this or you know, this needs to change,
Speaker 1: and a couple of their actors were very very stringent,
Speaker 1: like this is something that needs to change, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't grinds everything to a hold all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: So without all of these, you know, I can't say
Speaker 1: it enough. Said again, I've said it before. I sound
Speaker 1: like a broken record. But without people like John, these
Speaker 1: shows don't get made. There's you know, the actors and
Speaker 1: the directors and the producers get so much credit for
Speaker 1: being on a TV show. But like John says, our
Speaker 1: job started months after his job started, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like and he and you could say, because
Speaker 1: you recycled so much stuff, you're in a way still
Speaker 1: on that job, like it's still thinking about shadow Hunter
Speaker 1: is like, oh, I wonder if we have some stuff
Speaker 1: there that we could use on this next thing. Take
Speaker 1: this next Yeah, you're absolutely right. Again. The location manager
Speaker 1: in the department usually is one of the first ones hired,
Speaker 1: and usually then the last one is there. So I
Speaker 1: you know, from Cradle Degrave, we're involved in every aspect
Speaker 1: my department. The bathroom thing that that grinds to a halt,
Speaker 1: A hundred and fifty people need to go somewhere. And
Speaker 1: the funny thing is here where we're based out of
Speaker 1: there's actually law we have to follow. How many there's
Speaker 1: there's actually I have a mathematical table that I have
Speaker 1: to keep of how many people we have, how many
Speaker 1: actual holes as the referred to, we have to have
Speaker 1: how many holes? And I've been on some shows where
Speaker 1: that number got huge and you know, the last thing
Speaker 1: you need is all of a sudden, the line up
Speaker 1: of thirty people trying to get into a porta job,
Speaker 1: because then where's the you know, we're trying to shoot.
Speaker 1: Where is the director? Well he's waiting in line. That
Speaker 1: doesn't fly. Well, I mean the you know, the biggest
Speaker 1: detriment to production is the loss of time. Time. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and that's I mean, truly, it's so many aspects of production,
Speaker 1: from the creative to the logistic, is all problem solving,
Speaker 1: and it takes creativity, and it takes you know, a
Speaker 1: knowledge base and experience and everything that you know, you
Speaker 1: clearly have become so well versed in to to figure
Speaker 1: it out. So, whether it's you know, as dumb said,
Speaker 1: the you know, the the unsexy parts of filmmaking or not,
Speaker 1: it's all so necessary and so instrumental to you know,
Speaker 1: doing the flips and things that we all love. Just
Speaker 1: you know, our biggest challenge sometimes is where they want
Speaker 1: to put lights. Yeah, you know, a DP points because
Speaker 1: I want to let on that roof. Well, we don't
Speaker 1: know if we can get up there. That's not our roof.
Speaker 1: We just can't just walk I just can't walk up there.
Speaker 1: With a cord. It takes time. And you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: as you said, it's it's a lot of little Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of little moving pieces for what everyone
Speaker 1: ends up watching on screen that they don't see behind stage.
Speaker 1: And my department is one of the ones that actually
Speaker 1: interacts with everyone's. Yeah, there's not an aspect of production
Speaker 1: that somehow doesn't cross like even where the hair and
Speaker 1: makeup decides to sit put their chair down. It has
Speaker 1: to be location that can end up being you know,
Speaker 1: something to do well. So that sort of leads into
Speaker 1: my first question. We we get these cheat sheets, we
Speaker 1: get these brilliant cheat sheets and it's called all this
Speaker 1: information and like, um, you know, stuff that we should
Speaker 1: ask and whatever. And I listen, I look at that
Speaker 1: zero and I just I think of questions and that's
Speaker 1: what I do. It's very similar to how I work
Speaker 1: on set. John, Um, but so question nuber one. So
Speaker 1: the and this is always fascinated me. And I've never
Speaker 1: really found the time to ask the question because when
Speaker 1: we're shooting on like a busy street, like you know
Speaker 1: in Toronto, Young, I think we had shut down for
Speaker 1: a second there. What what's what does that entail? Because
Speaker 1: that's you know, we're shutting down a huge section of
Speaker 1: the metropolitan area of Toronto, And for anyone who's been
Speaker 1: to or lives in Toronto, they have sort of a
Speaker 1: semi one way system, so every other street kind of
Speaker 1: goes one way throughout the metropolitan So shutting down one
Speaker 1: of those really does make a huge fucking issue. It's
Speaker 1: a real problem in Toronto. So tell me tell me
Speaker 1: a little about that, sure. I mean, the greatest thing
Speaker 1: is that we're based is a city where the actual
Speaker 1: city is a good partner with us in production. We
Speaker 1: we tell them what we want to do and they
Speaker 1: kind of help us figure out the best way to
Speaker 1: do it. So when we did shut down the section
Speaker 1: of Young Street, which is a main artill year road,
Speaker 1: we always knew from the beginning that's going to have
Speaker 1: to be on a weekend. We the only the only
Speaker 1: way they let us do it is on a Saturday
Speaker 1: or a Sunday when there's less traffic or you're less
Speaker 1: impediment to business. So it then just literally becomes us
Speaker 1: working with the city, the fire department, transit everyone to
Speaker 1: make sure that we're not impacting our schedule works for their's.
Speaker 1: The neighbors and residents all known got on board and
Speaker 1: let us do what we did, which is basically shut
Speaker 1: down a block and a half of a major street
Speaker 1: and rewrote traffic. The funny thing was, that's actually one
Speaker 1: of the few locations where that was Matt Hastings episode.
Speaker 1: He and I got into a disagreement over that one,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad I want Early on in that season,
Speaker 1: he walked into my office and said finale Avengers Battle
Speaker 1: on the streets and he walked away. But you would
Speaker 1: do routinely, would just throw things to give us ahead.
Speaker 1: So we started pitching stuff, and we took them downtown
Speaker 1: and went where there's this corner, there's this block, there's
Speaker 1: this block. And they didn't want to work on a
Speaker 1: Saturday because it required shifting schedule. And then the idea
Speaker 1: was would just build it in the parking lot with
Speaker 1: green screen, just green screen, which to me is like
Speaker 1: a knife in the heart because it's never gonna look right.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna have these effects. Can do the world,
Speaker 1: but you can't get that sense of scale um as
Speaker 1: much as you want to try. And what happened was
Speaker 1: this cat you had to you had a conflict that
Speaker 1: meant you had to work with you had a Saturday
Speaker 1: available because we had to get you off something faster.
Speaker 1: At that point, Oh, that's what I was going to
Speaker 1: a maze runner. Yeah, and that's literally why all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, no one was fighting about being on a Saturday.
Speaker 1: And that was like the back of parking lot. And
Speaker 1: I literally politely argued and said, it was the dumbest
Speaker 1: idea you're gonna have. We can do it now, we
Speaker 1: should just do so we did, and it was really
Speaker 1: it looked phenomenal, and we staged the traffic. We staged
Speaker 1: the traffic jam, which was even smarter because parking lots
Speaker 1: are expensive downtown, so that traffic jam was pretty much
Speaker 1: most of the cruise cars parked down the middle of
Speaker 1: the street. That's right. I didn't know the buses, most
Speaker 1: of the cars there because although if you think about it,
Speaker 1: that scene, it's just two minutes long traffic jam New
Speaker 1: York City, although a lot happens in it, so the
Speaker 1: cars never have to move. So we just basically stacked
Speaker 1: crew cars, put in picture cars, because if you watch
Speaker 1: the scene, no vehicles ever moved through it. No, that's true,
Speaker 1: that was right, you know, it was free the day,
Speaker 1: the scene looked brilliant. It did. Oh yeah, it's one
Speaker 1: of it's one of the best scenes and it gets
Speaker 1: you know, replayed and re edited over and over again.
Speaker 1: That's in my personal reel. I got footage from from
Speaker 1: them for it. Yeah, that's amazing. Well because it has
Speaker 1: that scale and because you feel the city and you
Speaker 1: feel that kind of open expanse of space, and then
Speaker 1: we got the drone to go around the buildings that
Speaker 1: just look brilliant. So again in that case, much like
Speaker 1: any world closure, the city really was helpful with us
Speaker 1: when we explained what we wanted to do and they
Speaker 1: gave us the permission and the storefronts all you know
Speaker 1: that we covered up. We're all happy that was really
Speaker 1: put out. Canadians are nice as well. That it's a
Speaker 1: big part of experience, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: we we we did. We filmed the most recent show
Speaker 1: I just finished was we filmed in New York and
Speaker 1: we did a lot of stuff on the streets and
Speaker 1: there was there's a lot of like so we we
Speaker 1: do things and John obviously Cat you guys all know
Speaker 1: about this, but for the listeners at home who may
Speaker 1: not know about this, It's called a lock off, which
Speaker 1: John mentioned briefly, and you literally lock off for both
Speaker 1: traffic cars and traffic walking walking traffic. You lock off
Speaker 1: two sections of the street, the top and the end,
Speaker 1: and people can't travel through those. But correctly, if I'm wrong, legally,
Speaker 1: we're not allowed to stop pedestrians from walking right correct
Speaker 1: A police officer can or a barricade, but you can
Speaker 1: ask someone to start, but they get to you. I
Speaker 1: know New York like the back of my hand. No
Speaker 1: New Yorker is gonna starting to go right through. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was very colorful morning scenes. Yeah, no kidding. We
Speaker 1: had a couple like we had a great steady cam
Speaker 1: operator Patrick, and there are a couple of moments where
Speaker 1: someone said something a little colorful to me on the
Speaker 1: way and camera just go straight up to the sky
Speaker 1: like we're not seeing any of that. This is a
Speaker 1: Netflix show. We got now would bring it back down
Speaker 1: when when we're ready to go. But yeah, New York
Speaker 1: is a less now with the opposite though, with you
Speaker 1: Cat when we did the when Matt wanted to get
Speaker 1: a scene of you walking through a crowded streets literally,
Speaker 1: remember that I was there that day. There was three
Speaker 1: of It was a camera operator, a grip Matt, myself
Speaker 1: and a costume person and we just threw you in
Speaker 1: morning traffic, morning rush hour, pedestrian traffic, but mostly them
Speaker 1: all going the other way so that they were looking
Speaker 1: at the camera and it worked. It was like the
Speaker 1: opposite work and nobody cared because they were just going
Speaker 1: to rush to get to work. Yeah, because there's you know,
Speaker 1: you put up a little sandwich placard on the street.
Speaker 1: That didn't do that? You didn't, I thought. I thought.
Speaker 1: We literally, we literally created a wedge behind the camera
Speaker 1: of our body so people would have to go around it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So for the listeners at home, this
Speaker 1: was the scene where and I think it's season two,
Speaker 1: episode one, when Clary has decided to run away from
Speaker 1: the Shadow World because she feels like she doesn't belong
Speaker 1: anywhere and run them back to the Bigland Academy of Art.
Speaker 1: I know she loves to run away various times. Um.
Speaker 1: But it was by Union station in Toronto downtown, which,
Speaker 1: as you know, if anyone has ever been to Toronto
Speaker 1: or has ever been near a Union station in any
Speaker 1: city in the morning, it's so the streets are packed
Speaker 1: and you know, you can't you can't get between people's shoulders,
Speaker 1: and it made for such an amazing scene because you
Speaker 1: just had this sea of coats and people and faces
Speaker 1: and yeah, I remember it was such kind of guerrilla filmmaking,
Speaker 1: but in the best west that was it. We love that.
Speaker 1: Though we've again we've said on this podcast we're sort
Speaker 1: of approaching the end of this season now, so we've
Speaker 1: we've talked extensively about the show. So if I'm repeating
Speaker 1: myself listeners, I apologize, But we've spoken quite extensively about
Speaker 1: the difference between shooting, for example, on a green screen,
Speaker 1: especially the three sixty green screen, which is quite hard
Speaker 1: work because on a show like ours is very hard
Speaker 1: work because we're imagining these things that we haven't even seen.
Speaker 1: It's not like a dragon, it's like a mythical beast,
Speaker 1: and we don't know what the fun that thing is
Speaker 1: gonna look So you're imagining this thing or this world
Speaker 1: or whatever you know, eden whatever it is. We have
Speaker 1: no concept of what that's going to look like, which
Speaker 1: is really hard work. And at least for me, the
Speaker 1: most exciting days are out on the street there because
Speaker 1: I can see everything, I can visualize everything, and it
Speaker 1: takes that this little element of difficulty out of my
Speaker 1: work day. Um, it adds difficulty to your work day.
Speaker 1: It takes a little out of it keeps you employed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the true the location becomes a character in the store.
Speaker 1: It does. If you think of like iconic movies, of
Speaker 1: iconic scenes where they take place, even if it's fictitiously,
Speaker 1: you know, created like Toronto became New York, It's still
Speaker 1: a character and everything. Absolutely. And you know, if for
Speaker 1: anyone who's read the books, and for anyone who you
Speaker 1: know has watched the show, the city of New York
Speaker 1: in in any piece of media becomes such a huge
Speaker 1: character in it and and takes on kind of a
Speaker 1: life of its own and is a you know, mythical
Speaker 1: being in and of itself. But it felt as though,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure this is largely due to you, we
Speaker 1: found such a great rhythm on the show of having
Speaker 1: most of the time in studio and on stages when
Speaker 1: we had our own space and our own stuff, and
Speaker 1: then having being able to use the rest of our
Speaker 1: resources to go out and do some really major, huge locations.
Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't know this when I moved
Speaker 1: to Toronto, but even some of the locations we used
Speaker 1: in the pilot, like the Distillery District and that nightclub
Speaker 1: and all those things. Those are pretty prominent and usually
Speaker 1: very busy Toronto locations. And say when when the the
Speaker 1: when the Distillery District was pitched by McGee, a lot
Speaker 1: of us just kind of hung our heads, going, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a real pain to go there, but fine, because
Speaker 1: the those who don't know what it was an old
Speaker 1: distillery that got gentrified and surrounded by condeminiums and shops
Speaker 1: and restaurants. It's the residents that's always an issue. But
Speaker 1: we we did. We made it work. It was just
Speaker 1: it wasn't our favorite place to pitch. Truthfully. The hardest day,
Speaker 1: and on the first episode is the pre shoot day.
Speaker 1: The park we are in was just I don't even
Speaker 1: and I even I don't even know remeter, I haven't
Speaker 1: even made it. But that was like we had a
Speaker 1: pre shoot day of a Clary flashback with a demon
Speaker 1: coming out of water. That was the fountain didn't work.
Speaker 1: We had to we had to bring in We had
Speaker 1: to literally crack a fire hydrant to put water in
Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah. Yeah, the the actual mechanics of the
Speaker 1: Parks fountain didn't work. They couldn't get water to it,
Speaker 1: so we actually got to crack a hydrant with permission
Speaker 1: and run this thing up. Um. But the nightclub, you
Speaker 1: mean the nightclub with the incessant fire alarm. They kept
Speaker 1: going off. Forgotten about that right three times that one
Speaker 1: night because every time they opened the doors, the smoke
Speaker 1: would uh below the atmosphereic smoke that we used to
Speaker 1: make everything look pretty and sexy. When you go, you
Speaker 1: fill the room so it's like a pressure room. And
Speaker 1: we opened the doors, that smoke would fly out and
Speaker 1: go two floors up, and then in the same building,
Speaker 1: go into the intake and set off the fire alarm
Speaker 1: because the owner of the building didn't want to disable
Speaker 1: the system until the third call from the fire department
Speaker 1: and then he flicked the switch. But that was you know,
Speaker 1: Finding the club was interesting because we tried to avoid
Speaker 1: certain things from the from the movie, so it's a
Speaker 1: different we found about the club. We don't have had
Speaker 1: the little alley way and stuff. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: jump ahead to the last episode. I really fought I
Speaker 1: wasn't on the last two. I was kind of there
Speaker 1: for you. I was doing another show waiting for season
Speaker 1: four to get Greenland, and it didn't. I was in
Speaker 1: the same building doing this horrible Christmas movie for free Form.
Speaker 1: I couldn't leave, so I was still kind of involved.
Speaker 1: And when I saw the last two scripts, I kept
Speaker 1: arguing that the very very last scene of the show
Speaker 1: should have been in the same alley from the first
Speaker 1: episode of the Nightclub, saying it's this, It's that, the end,
Speaker 1: is the beginning, is the end. It just never ended
Speaker 1: up happening because of their schedule, and I kept arguing,
Speaker 1: what I'm going it makes more. Even Todd agreed, but
Speaker 1: it just wouldn't work. Just couldn't figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that happens a lot. There's stuff that we really think
Speaker 1: might work and pitch and it gets being creative and
Speaker 1: it's other people's inputs. Other things end up being decided voices.
Speaker 1: It's nuts, Like it's you know, auditioning for us is
Speaker 1: is it's sort of a similar process, Like you impress
Speaker 1: one person who's normally the first person who meets, like
Speaker 1: a casting director or a casting associate. Great, you've impressed
Speaker 1: that person. Then maybe you impressed a series of producers
Speaker 1: or the director. But then there's the money people. Then
Speaker 1: there's like the heads of the studio, the heads of
Speaker 1: the network. Like this is group tests. You remember what
Speaker 1: tests used to be, like our tests for Shadow Hunters.
Speaker 1: You sit in a theater, you sit in like an auditorium,
Speaker 1: and you have forty people who work for Disney and
Speaker 1: free Form and then people who work for Constantine, all
Speaker 1: of the people who have these sort of career defining
Speaker 1: moments in their hands, and if one of them says no,
Speaker 1: that is then thrown into question. It's a real big
Speaker 1: like we don't know, and it's it's not prefer that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I prefer that to the zoom screen tests. I preferred
Speaker 1: to zooms. But now I'm sort of getting into a
Speaker 1: bit of a rhythm with zoom. I think I'm like, anyway,
Speaker 1: that's boring, that's this isn't about John. We need to
Speaker 1: another time. We always during COVID, I was on a show.
Speaker 1: We decided to do an in person production meeting with
Speaker 1: COVID protocols, which basically involved seventy I have of us
Speaker 1: standing in a studio around the perimeter yelling at one
Speaker 1: or another. That is very quickly. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: know how one gets to be a location manager. How
Speaker 1: did you find this career path and what what led
Speaker 1: you to this job? Okay, so I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: go back in time. I was living the dream, living
Speaker 1: at my parents, my parents based, but working at a
Speaker 1: record store if you remember where those oh yeah, highlight.
Speaker 1: My sister actually was in the film industry for a
Speaker 1: while as an assistant director and she was on a
Speaker 1: TV show where they had fired their fifth office pit
Speaker 1: and said, well, my brother can do it if these
Speaker 1: people can. So that's how I got into the business.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know what I wanted to be and
Speaker 1: and my office was next to the locations office, and
Speaker 1: they all sounded like there, you know, bat shit crazy
Speaker 1: and having a lot of fun. And I started talking
Speaker 1: to them. And the first job I got, you start
Speaker 1: at the bottom, like a location p a setting up tables, chairs,
Speaker 1: garbage cancer. The first job I was given was given
Speaker 1: by a location manager named Richard Hughes, who was the
Speaker 1: other location manager on Shadow Hunters, because I made them
Speaker 1: hire him. So that was it. I just started. I
Speaker 1: fell into it. Um I did a good job, people
Speaker 1: started hiring me more. Someone on the show and said, hey,
Speaker 1: do you know how the locations got And I went no,
Speaker 1: and they went, while you grab a camera and take
Speaker 1: some photos. So I scouted for a long time, worked
Speaker 1: my way up to an assistant location manager, and then,
Speaker 1: funny enough, while I was waiting to start officially because
Speaker 1: I scouted for the movie in pre production, took the
Speaker 1: directors around and then there was a lull until they
Speaker 1: we're going to get green light. That was where I
Speaker 1: actually got an offer to location manage my first show ever,
Speaker 1: which was a show for Netflix called Hemlock Grove. It
Speaker 1: kind of just fell into it and and you know,
Speaker 1: I have an aptitude for it, I guess, and it's
Speaker 1: something I enjoy doing. And you know, what was going
Speaker 1: to be a part time job just to make some money,
Speaker 1: has not been a twenty five year career. Wow, that's amazing, awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like the puzzle. I like the creative puzzle and
Speaker 1: then the logistical puzzle. Cool. So, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot of problems solving on both ends.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of juggling because people have to
Speaker 1: realized while we're doing one day and we're also setting
Speaker 1: up three more and then you know, wrapping out yesterday.
Speaker 1: So it's a constant movement, especially on television. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't have a funk man. We moved so quickly on
Speaker 1: that show, like for the for the amount that we
Speaker 1: did with like you know, flat packing sets, so like
Speaker 1: indoors for people listening at home indoors. When these sets
Speaker 1: are also inside, they look spectacular, they look like the
Speaker 1: room like it's actually amazing. The second you leave them,
Speaker 1: they are like plywood like like they are sticking out,
Speaker 1: and they're all designed to go completely flat very quickly,
Speaker 1: go in the back of a truck, and then go
Speaker 1: to somewhere else. That's they're designed to do. And so
Speaker 1: we had that with sets coming up and down. We
Speaker 1: have the stunts, we had c g I everywhere, and
Speaker 1: I think the longest episode were the longest episode other
Speaker 1: than the pilot, which took a month. But we never
Speaker 1: spent more than two weeks on an episode, which is
Speaker 1: insane when you think absolutely episodes. Yes, sixteen days per episode,
Speaker 1: sixty eight to get it ready, eight to get it done.
Speaker 1: And people realize, although you have eight days to get
Speaker 1: it ready, you really only have six because if by
Speaker 1: day seven and eight you're not ready to lock everything
Speaker 1: in your Yeah, because six and seven it was five
Speaker 1: and six would be like your tech scouts right, like
Speaker 1: you're actually physically going to easily. And so you know
Speaker 1: you're lucky on season when it was you know, you
Speaker 1: get the earlier we get scripts that everyone gets them,
Speaker 1: the better it is for us, the more we can
Speaker 1: get ahead of things. But then you know, we don't
Speaker 1: see the director of that episode until the first day
Speaker 1: of prep, and he might have different ideas for everything
Speaker 1: that we've already agreed on. We were lucky on Shadow
Speaker 1: Hunters that we didn't have that much. But I've been
Speaker 1: on some shows that the director Watson and everything gets
Speaker 1: wiped out that you spent the last two weeks pre
Speaker 1: planning because he's got a different idea. Can you imagine,
Speaker 1: Oh what a nightmare thought that I will not I
Speaker 1: will not name. But this director, that was what he
Speaker 1: was known for and he enjoyed doing and he enjoyed
Speaker 1: coming in and causing chaos and he would just sit
Speaker 1: there and giggle. We have no room for chaos, goblins
Speaker 1: and television. No, we were we were lucky. I mean,
Speaker 1: we had scripts as early as we could. Um, Susan
Speaker 1: three was even better because I was at that point,
Speaker 1: you know, we knew Todd Darren. I met the writers
Speaker 1: of Comic Con. They actually gave me access to their notes,
Speaker 1: so I was one of the few people that had
Speaker 1: I knew more about what you guys are going to
Speaker 1: go through than anybody else because I actually had access
Speaker 1: to hit their handwritten notes and their meetings. Just because
Speaker 1: work it's more collaborative. Is nothing worse than we get
Speaker 1: a script and it's like, well we really don't have that.
Speaker 1: If we can pitch, like tell me what you're looking for,
Speaker 1: we could pitch something else. Because there was an episode
Speaker 1: they wanted to shoot it on the Staten Island Ferry,
Speaker 1: you know, like we don't have the Staten Island Ferry.
Speaker 1: That remember getting mixed and I remember being like, fun
Speaker 1: would be a cemetery. Yeah, it was the cemetery in
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah. And then there were some scenes where
Speaker 1: it's like it's you know, how many times can we
Speaker 1: be in a park? Can we just think of something else? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: The most example is that one season that we had
Speaker 1: ended up shooting at the St. Lawrence Market. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that was actually scripted to be in a park. Wait,
Speaker 1: I remember that it was at a park and we're
Speaker 1: driving with Matt we're driving on the locations go back
Speaker 1: to look at some stuff. It was not Mike L.
Speaker 1: Murray myself. It wasn't actually like I can't remember who's
Speaker 1: doping that um, But Matt was in the van. We
Speaker 1: drove by St. Lawrence Market. He went, what's that St.
Speaker 1: Lawrence Market? You want to go take a look? Sure?
Speaker 1: And he looked at me in can we film here?
Speaker 1: I went, yeah, they're closed on Mondays. Can then can
Speaker 1: we shoot? And we did. Ended up changing that whole
Speaker 1: scene to be in that market with you know, flying
Speaker 1: demons and stalls being broken open well, and then ended
Speaker 1: up being so much cooler. I don't know if you remember,
Speaker 1: Don that was the scene that there was a big
Speaker 1: race demon that I was changing. Get me right, the
Speaker 1: big big trailer line, Yeah, I remember, But even even
Speaker 1: the werewolf being tossed into the cabin, the windows being smashed,
Speaker 1: there were so much that came out of just one
Speaker 1: spot that we drove by and thought this would work
Speaker 1: better than and see. I love what you mentioned about
Speaker 1: the writer's notes, because this is something that we talked
Speaker 1: about a lot on the podcast. But that's just another
Speaker 1: example of you know, often on TV shows, people don't
Speaker 1: end up sharing or in anything in entertainment or most workplaces,
Speaker 1: people don't often share resources or information as much as
Speaker 1: they could. But simply by telling you what's going on
Speaker 1: and keeping you in the loop and giving you information
Speaker 1: and having that sort of round table, open door policy
Speaker 1: that we had on Shadow Hunters with all the departments,
Speaker 1: it added so much to the show and it allowed
Speaker 1: everyone to do work that was so much more elevated
Speaker 1: because we were just informed. And that's you know, that's
Speaker 1: something that that I wish was more common of, you know,
Speaker 1: just having anyone being able to get information. Honestly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just shows how it can be when it's fully collaborative.
Speaker 1: It just becomes more enjoyable, more of an art form,
Speaker 1: more of everyone putting the best they came out there,
Speaker 1: Even like the Garden season three, that was two months
Speaker 1: of us trying to figure out what that was going
Speaker 1: to be here between this sets a dad, we build it,
Speaker 1: what do we need and then settled on the ruins
Speaker 1: that we ended up being there. That's so cool, amazing
Speaker 1: that actually, So that collaboration leads me to my next question.
Speaker 1: So talking so again people at home, there are many
Speaker 1: many instances where we've built a set, and the set
Speaker 1: has a front door, so as soon as you leave
Speaker 1: that front door, you're outside somewhere, and that has to
Speaker 1: be unless we build an outside set that has to be,
Speaker 1: which the Hunter's Moon had. You know, we built that
Speaker 1: entire street, which is incredible, like the whole street of Chinatown,
Speaker 1: like like two blocks each way or a block each way,
Speaker 1: which is just fucking wild. Um. But like the Jade
Speaker 1: Wolf is a good example. When you leave the set
Speaker 1: of The Jade Wolf, you're on the docks, which is outside,
Speaker 1: which obviously for us was relatively easy. But what is that? Like?
Speaker 1: What does that dance with you? Between I set there? Right?
Speaker 1: Like I imagine those guy or not set back? Who
Speaker 1: who builds sets? I mean construction based on the art consartment,
Speaker 1: But usually that the question is when they go outside,
Speaker 1: what is outside? So you know, and usually you try
Speaker 1: to go to the script to pull it as much information.
Speaker 1: What city is it in? Where does it take place?
Speaker 1: What's around there? And if you can't, then that's when
Speaker 1: you have conversations with the showrunners, you know, other producers,
Speaker 1: the designer, you know, where in because it was New York?
Speaker 1: Where in New York? Is this okay? So what does
Speaker 1: it want to look like? Like which part of the
Speaker 1: city are we thinking of? Because that even drives things
Speaker 1: like the subway set, what subway sign will beyond there?
Speaker 1: So you walk out a door, you know, let's take
Speaker 1: Season one the locked in the Antique Shop, which is
Speaker 1: a place that we all hated. Um, we needed a
Speaker 1: two story building that looked interesting, and we actually found
Speaker 1: this wretched place that the owner was a hoarder on
Speaker 1: the third floor. But thankfully we never went back through again.
Speaker 1: It was right that you up and it was a nightmare. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you no longer lives there and it's now being turned
Speaker 1: into some swanky condominium with still maintaining the base of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's what is outside is. This is an
Speaker 1: important lookwise because it also drives what set decal dressed
Speaker 1: at what you know picture cars will be there, because
Speaker 1: I mean, I spent a lot of time in New
Speaker 1: York and I was always arguing all from Brooklyn, the
Speaker 1: caps can't be yell that they're supposed to be great
Speaker 1: because you get the stock cars that are you know,
Speaker 1: they're not crowndexed or this. So if you wanted to
Speaker 1: make it real, you really kind of get a sense
Speaker 1: of where, like you know, where was the institute? Which
Speaker 1: churches it really is supposed to be. Are we going
Speaker 1: by what's in the books? Are we going by what
Speaker 1: we decided by the stock shots that we bought, because
Speaker 1: that drives everything. So yeah, even just opening the door
Speaker 1: becomes a big, huge thing, right. I did a movie
Speaker 1: um where It's not Out Actually was all done on location.
Speaker 1: We weren't in the studio a tool. We had two
Speaker 1: different sets for breaching and clearing a room and played
Speaker 1: at U S. Marshals for breaching and clearing a room,
Speaker 1: and then we go down into the basement. So the
Speaker 1: upstairs room was one set and the basement was a
Speaker 1: completely different place. And when we got there we realized
Speaker 1: that the door opened the other way. Like, this is
Speaker 1: a real fucking problem because we can't change it. There's
Speaker 1: nothing we can do. Go and rewatch the movie. The
Speaker 1: door is They took it completely off the hinges and
Speaker 1: it's just rested already opened on the other side. That's
Speaker 1: happened to me in the past. We've shot the stage
Speaker 1: component first, and we go on the location the doors
Speaker 1: in the wrong side, so we have to move the door.
Speaker 1: You move the door, Yeah, like, if you have the time,
Speaker 1: you hang it the other way. Yeah, no choice, it's
Speaker 1: it's I can't remember if it was Spielberg or Scorsese
Speaker 1: who said recently it's being on being on a set,
Speaker 1: being a director, when it would acted, you know, locations, whatever.
Speaker 1: It is, like, it's problem solving. That's what you do
Speaker 1: and you need. The better you get at it, the
Speaker 1: quicker you get at it, the more you're going to
Speaker 1: progress in your career, Like you get good at solving
Speaker 1: whatever this issue is. What is this issue? It's a door. Great,
Speaker 1: we take it off, We put it on the other side. Amazing, done,
Speaker 1: that problem is taken care of. You know, is it
Speaker 1: nighttime or daytime? We need to fix that problem. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: we do it like this and it's fixed, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's sort of other shows. You show up on
Speaker 1: a set and the director goes, oh, I don't want
Speaker 1: to look that one anymore. I want to look that way,
Speaker 1: and it's just we're not, okay, great, how do we
Speaker 1: do that quickly? Are An actor comes on set and
Speaker 1: because I just feel like I need to walk over
Speaker 1: here on this line, and everyone the face of knowing
Speaker 1: for yeah every time, but I mean I did a
Speaker 1: show where I did a show where our director of photography,
Speaker 1: which it wasn't able to ever come scouting with us.
Speaker 1: And here we show up each day going why are
Speaker 1: we here? Well, no, I don't like that. I want
Speaker 1: to be over then I want to be down the street.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, yeah, well, y's not we show up.
Speaker 1: That decision has been gone through several people, and several
Speaker 1: money has spune, equip people getting things ready. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and then the simple things as well, like this, This
Speaker 1: question then needs to go back to the writers, and
Speaker 1: we were in Toronto, the writers were in l A.
Speaker 1: So if we show up at eight in the morning,
Speaker 1: it's five in the morning in l As, they're not
Speaker 1: up yet. So how do we answer that question? Do
Speaker 1: we wait for five hours and lose a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars an hour while we're renting this set? Like no, Yeah.
Speaker 1: That was the funny thing in season one is that
Speaker 1: the people that were behind behind the scenes hadn't really
Speaker 1: on episodic television a lot, so they didn't see the
Speaker 1: benefit of having a showrunner or directing producer. And that's
Speaker 1: what the explanation was. At six in the morning, when
Speaker 1: we have to figure out whether this is blow or green?
Speaker 1: Who were calling right? And they went on like, well,
Speaker 1: you have to have someone here who can creatively have
Speaker 1: the power to make that Half those writers are here
Speaker 1: with us. Um you know which one I've been on.
Speaker 1: I did a series called The Expanse where half the
Speaker 1: producing team was always in towns. We always had right away.
Speaker 1: Very different of mine is on the Expense Dominique Tippa Yah.
Speaker 1: One of my first big movies with Dominique, and the
Speaker 1: funny thing was for Science. One of the producers was
Speaker 1: actually an astrophysicist. Actually he decided you don't want to
Speaker 1: do that and wanted to be a movie producer and
Speaker 1: that he could always answer like all the techy questions
Speaker 1: right off the bat. We never questioned if he was
Speaker 1: making it up because we just assumed you was right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you need to have someone there that can
Speaker 1: make that call. And if you know, that's why the
Speaker 1: directing producer on television shows is such a valuable and
Speaker 1: an important position to a absolutely like Matt on Season
Speaker 1: two and three just steered the ship from the box
Speaker 1: all the time. He was just so good at being
Speaker 1: able to just make executive decisions and at any at
Speaker 1: any juncture. But on that note, I have to ask
Speaker 1: what is and it can be maybe on shadow Hunters.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is a two part question on shadow Hunters.
Speaker 1: And then just in general, what is the wildest problem
Speaker 1: that you've encountered or thing, most unique thing you've had
Speaker 1: to find and how did you solve the problem? Okay, wildest,
Speaker 1: there's two, U, there's two. One was what show it was?
Speaker 1: We were going to film at this really ratty divy
Speaker 1: house at the end of the day and we found
Speaker 1: out that was bed bugs in one of the rooms.
Speaker 1: We had to get. We had to get the bed
Speaker 1: bugs and it turned out it was in the son's room,
Speaker 1: who was a bit of a slob in the mattress.
Speaker 1: But we had to get an exterminator to come in quickly,
Speaker 1: which is hard to do, and they found no no,
Speaker 1: no wordable lie. They found a father and son Christian
Speaker 1: exterminating team. Wow, never heard of that before. And I
Speaker 1: mean they got the job done in the crew and
Speaker 1: the crew was informed and said, look, if you really
Speaker 1: don't feel safe and don't go in. But we did
Speaker 1: did the job. The most bizarre one Resident Evil three.
Speaker 1: We needed to do a scene on a beach with
Speaker 1: a helicopter with the right at the beginning, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've done. I'm a flashback to a scene from another one.
Speaker 1: Yet she walks through an airplane, gray garden. There's a
Speaker 1: helicopter and a bunch of flashbacks. The helicopter never flies.
Speaker 1: The director fell in love with this tree in this
Speaker 1: beach three and a half hours away from Toronto, in
Speaker 1: the sam Bank Provincial Park. The producers thought for us
Speaker 1: to find another spot that was closer. No, he had
Speaker 1: to have this tree, this beach, and we had been
Speaker 1: in discussions with the park to provincial park like a
Speaker 1: state run park, with a park superintendent about The plan
Speaker 1: was we're gonna fly this helicopter and landed just because
Speaker 1: it's easier for us to fly it there than put
Speaker 1: it on a trailer and crane. Everything was fine, but
Speaker 1: four weeks before we're supposed to film, the park superintendent says, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't land a helicopter there. We've been
Speaker 1: talking about this for five weeks, so I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1: So we go back to the producer whose answer was
Speaker 1: fix it. So we ended up we I was the
Speaker 1: assistant on the show, ended up going through the part
Speaker 1: like park law, literally going through like what's called the
Speaker 1: Parks Act of Ontario to find out why I can
Speaker 1: land one here and not here, and it was because
Speaker 1: it was by the water and had a row. It
Speaker 1: was bizarre stuff, but we found a loophole thing at
Speaker 1: the Minister for Parks and Recreation could amend that law.
Speaker 1: So then we did. We literally found a way to
Speaker 1: get someone. It's not easy to get in front of
Speaker 1: politicians to get it. Turned out someone from Toronto City
Speaker 1: Council was going to be an event a car with
Speaker 1: them to some conference and we kind of gave her
Speaker 1: our notes and they pitched it and explained like this
Speaker 1: is we need to just this is why we're doing this.
Speaker 1: And all I remember getting is a phone call from
Speaker 1: the park superintendent three weeks later going I don't know
Speaker 1: what you did, but you got your permission. And there
Speaker 1: is literally a line in the Act that at that
Speaker 1: time there was a three day window of change. The
Speaker 1: law was amended for three days only to land a
Speaker 1: helicopter on this beach. Now did anyone from the crew
Speaker 1: know that when they show up, No, that the producers care. No.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, by Boss and
Speaker 1: I are like, we changed law and it's still in there.
Speaker 1: It's still a little byline because obviously with all law
Speaker 1: of things, every all changes are in there. But we
Speaker 1: literally have to change provincial law to put a helicopter
Speaker 1: in the scene. You change the law of Canada for
Speaker 1: film that I'm waiting for a federal one that hasn't
Speaker 1: happened yet. That's the next step, is it's problem solving.
Speaker 1: It's no is an easy answer for people to give,
Speaker 1: and at some point it might be no, but you
Speaker 1: just try to find any way to work at it properly.
Speaker 1: Like we didn't violent anything. We just found that there
Speaker 1: was a way to change that well exactly. And that's
Speaker 1: that's the fun of that sort of creativity is uh
Speaker 1: fun at the end. Yeah, during and worried you're gonna
Speaker 1: lose your job while it's happening. But yeah, sometimes you
Speaker 1: do have to go back and say, look, the answer
Speaker 1: is no. There was sometimes some places I'm around shadow
Speaker 1: hunters they wanted to go to and it just didn't work.
Speaker 1: We couldn't do what they wanted. You know, you kind
Speaker 1: of go with it. But we're pretty lucky most times
Speaker 1: that we either got what we wanted or we were
Speaker 1: able to creatively find a way out. Well, none of
Speaker 1: the locations that we were on ever felt as though
Speaker 1: it was the second choice, or felt as though it
Speaker 1: was makeshift in any way, shape or form. It know.
Speaker 1: The stress at the beginning of season two was when
Speaker 1: they said we want to go back to the boat.
Speaker 1: You know, I was gonna ask, I was gonna asks.
Speaker 1: The first boat was sold because there was a good
Speaker 1: span of time between seasons. They had sold it for
Speaker 1: scrap and it was being hauled, I believe, and I
Speaker 1: think it sank somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Yeah, they'd buy a lot of scrap
Speaker 1: boats and shipped them overseas and they did out of it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't make it. How did they get And
Speaker 1: there's just like down a massive river somewhere out So
Speaker 1: Lake Ontario was the bottom of the Great Lakes. Eventually,
Speaker 1: if you just kept going east, you get into the St.
Speaker 1: Lawrence Canal through Montreal and straight out to the Atlanta
Speaker 1: which wow, I didn't know that. I just assumed it
Speaker 1: was like a reservoir. There's no cargo predominantly big ship
Speaker 1: just go to Halifax. But Montreal they stopped there two
Speaker 1: smaller ones like the ones we were on that go
Speaker 1: to to Toronto, Hamilton's through the canals to Lake Erie.
Speaker 1: They they go all the way to northern Ontario or
Speaker 1: you know, Minnesota, basically drop off grain or whatever whatever.
Speaker 1: We're lucky to find another ship and hope that no
Speaker 1: one would notice on that by much that it was
Speaker 1: a completely different I didn't notice. I was on both
Speaker 1: of those ships. I didn't notice. I didn't notice. I
Speaker 1: think there was like a crane missing there. There was
Speaker 1: a crane on the second in the second boat. There
Speaker 1: wasn't on the first. Yeah, that's the only thing I
Speaker 1: noticed though, because I literally fought underneath it. I had
Speaker 1: a fight scene under it, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't think this was there before. But I drink a lot,
Speaker 1: so who knows, maybe it was missing. I don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: if any any shadow hundreds folks out there, if anyone
Speaker 1: ever finds the boat, maybe we'll have to have like
Speaker 1: a you know, dive to the most Yeah, scuba expedition
Speaker 1: for the fun. But tell us, John, tell us more
Speaker 1: about the boat debacle. So how do you have what's
Speaker 1: the pro sets of finding not one, but two boats
Speaker 1: that can be used to film very very much. It
Speaker 1: was we were just fortunate at the time that there
Speaker 1: were these There was that one both boats were basically
Speaker 1: moored for maintenance, and you know, both ship lines were
Speaker 1: open to us coming on there because I mean it's
Speaker 1: it's money for them for literally doing nothing. Um both
Speaker 1: and both have been filmed friendly in the past. It
Speaker 1: just it was just extremely lucky that both boats were
Speaker 1: just more there basically what I think the first one
Speaker 1: didn't even have an engine. Yeah, it was just it
Speaker 1: was basically just tied up. And the second one too,
Speaker 1: it was it was down for repairs that we're going
Speaker 1: to take you know, a couple of months. See, otherwise
Speaker 1: we would have had to probably go to like you know,
Speaker 1: the next next place over would have been Hamilton, that
Speaker 1: might have had a boat, but just having one in
Speaker 1: the exact same spot, well by a couple of feet, um,
Speaker 1: was just completely you know, good luck for us to
Speaker 1: start the season that way. And it just happened to
Speaker 1: have a beautiful skyline of Toronto that you can delete
Speaker 1: this the sand Tower and pop in the Empire State
Speaker 1: Building and you're good to go. Yeah. My favorite is
Speaker 1: when shows forget to do that. Yeah, across there's like,
Speaker 1: there's so few of them in our show. But every
Speaker 1: now and then you see like the t from the
Speaker 1: Tim Horton's and I'm like, angle those in New York.
Speaker 1: Oh No, it's so when we show stuff on screen,
Speaker 1: we have to get clearance from the studio what names
Speaker 1: we could show. But the problem is a lot of
Speaker 1: the clearance that we use is from the States, so
Speaker 1: they don't recognize Canadian brands. Like there's one scene where
Speaker 1: you guys are I think you're walking in the second
Speaker 1: cup sign you know, Tim Hortons, and we're just like
Speaker 1: they wouldn't let it. They didn't have an issue with it,
Speaker 1: but we're just interesting. I just found this out on
Speaker 1: I was just working for Netflix. Um, I guess because
Speaker 1: it's streaming or because Netflix has a deal in particular.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the reason was, but they said
Speaker 1: Netflix doesn't have to do you don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: You don't have to get clearance for anything. We were
Speaker 1: using iPhones, we were all using Apple products. We didn't
Speaker 1: have to pay Apple anything. Yeah, clearance clearance is a
Speaker 1: weird thing that it's It's if you line up for
Speaker 1: clearance people and ask them as in question you're gonna
Speaker 1: get four different answers, right, So, fus I was to
Speaker 1: tell you, are you allowed to use Major League Football's names,
Speaker 1: the players, the teams in a movie, you'd say without
Speaker 1: their permission? You'd say no. But there's an entire movie
Speaker 1: called Concussion where they never once asked for permission, and
Speaker 1: literally because because they didn't actually lie, it was all factual,
Speaker 1: they were allowed to get away with it. Well, I
Speaker 1: wonder if that's that must be very fluid now as well,
Speaker 1: because I know my brother is a is a coach
Speaker 1: for the Ingrad rugby team in the R and D department,
Speaker 1: and I know they're bringing in versions of technology now
Speaker 1: with different things where they talk about things like this,
Speaker 1: if you do something like this, like if you move
Speaker 1: forward with this technology, the information from this will belong
Speaker 1: to the player, not to the club. It will belong
Speaker 1: to the player directly. So when you start doing like
Speaker 1: with the movement of things like n f T s
Speaker 1: and whatever, if you n FT a touchdown from a
Speaker 1: football team or whatever, then you can't reference that. Again,
Speaker 1: you can't reference the guy's name without having to pay them,
Speaker 1: because they have they have monetized their one thing and
Speaker 1: made it you know there's which is really interesting. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it did. That's you. I can't imagine that you're wrong
Speaker 1: in any way because for different people different Yeah, no
Speaker 1: clearances when they start involving our department, just that we
Speaker 1: just kind of lose our minds because it's really it's
Speaker 1: someone else to deal with it. I can get a
Speaker 1: sign off from the owner of the building. You want
Speaker 1: to change the sign great, Please don't ask me to
Speaker 1: get clearance from a subway, right, yeah, just call it
Speaker 1: something else. Just walking down the street eating a sandwich.
Speaker 1: We had a scene like that. We had a scene
Speaker 1: in the morning when Matt wanted to finish his coffee
Speaker 1: and they were like just drink it in the scene
Speaker 1: and like we're walking onto the scene, they're like wait, wait,
Speaker 1: wait wait, and they ran off and they put a
Speaker 1: like a heat sleeve on it cover up the logo.
Speaker 1: Whatever the fine go. Do you think nobody wants to
Speaker 1: game a throne Starbucks moment where they can only imagine
Speaker 1: how to pay Starbucks of fortune to get that in
Speaker 1: or to pay them off like they was an accident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but most times nothing ever happens, right, It's let's just
Speaker 1: you're doing something disparagingly with the bread and most companies
Speaker 1: really don't care rate branding for them. Yeah, like Starbucks
Speaker 1: so good that it was in a mythical land years ago,
Speaker 1: starks Bucks, starks Bucks. That's a very good cat, very
Speaker 1: not just a hat rack. You know, you, John, are
Speaker 1: one of the folks on the crew that have really
Speaker 1: been active on Twitter and with the fandom and all
Speaker 1: of that. So, as you know, the Shadow fam is
Speaker 1: a magical being of its own and they are angels
Speaker 1: on this earth. So let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your experience with the fandom and uh, you know, being
Speaker 1: at the comic cons and and what's what's that been
Speaker 1: like for you? Okay, So, first and foremost, I am
Speaker 1: a fan of stuff, like I know currently I am
Speaker 1: still you know, I consume the content. I attend, you know,
Speaker 1: New York and San Diego comic con. I run a
Speaker 1: panel at San Diego about location scouting. But it's I
Speaker 1: would being immersed in within the people that you know,
Speaker 1: pay my salary. But the Shadow Family just they've always
Speaker 1: been you know, pleasant, if they're they've got great hearts.
Speaker 1: I've been happy to meet a few of them, more
Speaker 1: than a lot of that person not just you know,
Speaker 1: they're not rude on social media, they're engaging. Because I've
Speaker 1: been at all the appearances, like all three New York's,
Speaker 1: the two San Diegos, and the amount of times I'll
Speaker 1: get like the worst not the worst. The weirdest one
Speaker 1: was the third time It's at New York when we
Speaker 1: were at Madison Square Gardens. They had everyone show up
Speaker 1: early in corrals like Penn's to keep the line to
Speaker 1: the cue going. So I was in one of the
Speaker 1: first ones and I start getting Twitter notices asking if
Speaker 1: that's me there, and I'm like yes, and people were
Speaker 1: there respectful and I'm not to start pointing out that
Speaker 1: I'm in the crowd, not that I wouldn't mind, but
Speaker 1: they've been great. I still communicate with quite a few
Speaker 1: of them. Half my Instagram is shadow Hunters fans Um.
Speaker 1: There was a time I turned out I was in
Speaker 1: London for a conference when you guys had a convention
Speaker 1: and end up meeting a few people that I've met before. Oh,
Speaker 1: they they're they're great. You still stay in touch with
Speaker 1: a few of them. I mean I still send them
Speaker 1: Christmas some of them Christmas cards. Yeah, I mean they've
Speaker 1: they've been good to me in It's been fun being
Speaker 1: part of the community. I love the Shadow fan They're
Speaker 1: they're great. I mean, I can never say, you know,
Speaker 1: I know the definition of you know, fan comes from fanatic,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but I don't think that's necessarily the the
Speaker 1: apt definition anymore. I think they know. I mean, we
Speaker 1: can't and I both have experienced a fair share of
Speaker 1: the fanatic version of it, which is and with I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's the same with you, Cap, but
Speaker 1: with me, very often it's it's partners that get the
Speaker 1: rough end of it, Like my my girlfriend gets the
Speaker 1: rough end of it every now and then, and then
Speaker 1: you sort of go through it and you go, this
Speaker 1: is like three people of the millions that we've met
Speaker 1: and the millions that watched the show over the course
Speaker 1: of like, I'm not gonna and I'm sort of this
Speaker 1: is my old age coming through, and so my gray
Speaker 1: hairs are adding to my knowledge. I saw this thing recently,
Speaker 1: is I'm not going to give you. I'm not giving
Speaker 1: you the privilege to take away of my happiness. You
Speaker 1: don't deserve that. There's so many people who strive for
Speaker 1: our happiness, and we strive for theirs, and just makes
Speaker 1: the world go around, the full year and yang of
Speaker 1: the world. These this this minute percentage of people that
Speaker 1: want to be negative in some way. I'm not giving
Speaker 1: you permission to take my happiness away from you anymore.
Speaker 1: That's not yours. You don't get that privilege. It's not
Speaker 1: for you. And like you say, the vast majority of
Speaker 1: people have been so supportive, without whom we wouldn't be here,
Speaker 1: not only doing the podcast, wouldn't have done the show.
Speaker 1: The show wouldn't have kept going about people who enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: And that was always the fun of joining all those
Speaker 1: conventions and seeing the fan base grow, moving from the
Speaker 1: basement of the jabits to swear gardens, and that many
Speaker 1: people just that that love the show, we're involved in it.
Speaker 1: It's it's still great when I go into a convention
Speaker 1: and still see people dressed up. Yeah, it's so wild. Well,
Speaker 1: and it's incredible too, is that you know you get
Speaker 1: to see over the years Domina I have met and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you too have seen this. We've met so
Speaker 1: many folks who you know, they were fourteen or fifteen
Speaker 1: or twelve when we first met them, and now we
Speaker 1: still every year we go to conventions or see on Twitter,
Speaker 1: we get to hear about their you know, university, or
Speaker 1: their jobs or the progress they've made in their life,
Speaker 1: or get to watch these people grow into themselves in
Speaker 1: so many amazing ways and see the fandom support them
Speaker 1: and see these friendships grow and blossom and developing through people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like people who have connected through a mutual love of
Speaker 1: the either these stories or you know, you guys did
Speaker 1: the locations whatever. It is like seeing people develop these
Speaker 1: relationships within that is really sweet. Like we've seen people
Speaker 1: get into romantic relationships from like two people who are
Speaker 1: separate at these conventions that we've gone to and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're holding hands and we're like
Speaker 1: on a panel like, hey, those two, I think those
Speaker 1: two hang up now. And then they asked us a question.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Shah, I wasn't listening. I'm sorry paying attention whatever.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's a fandom that it's never like
Speaker 1: on most of I've never had been on a show
Speaker 1: that I had it that was such passion and became
Speaker 1: its own community and published books and stuck together and
Speaker 1: you know, just the whole campaign just trying to save
Speaker 1: the show. Still We still have a bench in New
Speaker 1: York in Central parkos and hated to as which is wild.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen. I still haven't seen that. I used
Speaker 1: to walk down there all the time. It's it's it's pumbling.
Speaker 1: It isn't there isn't it really is, because I've walked
Speaker 1: past it a few times and it's like, that's just odd,
Speaker 1: but in a great way, like nothing I've worked on
Speaker 1: has a bench that that that that the studio realized
Speaker 1: how much fandom loved the show of product and decided
Speaker 1: to put money towards something. Well, that's why we came
Speaker 1: up with that idea, you know. It was we were
Speaker 1: the show and I was talking to Harry about it,
Speaker 1: and we're like, well what if we did you know,
Speaker 1: what if we did this and and made you know,
Speaker 1: not a monument but a spot that people could go
Speaker 1: and remember the show in the place that it existed.
Speaker 1: And the studio was kind enough to help out. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't realize the studio put towards it.
Speaker 1: That's really nice. Yeah, free Form came in and helped
Speaker 1: us with it because it you know, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not a small expendi. It's also a place where fans
Speaker 1: can always know where to meet when they if they want. Recently,
Speaker 1: I was gone already from New York. But we we
Speaker 1: did it at this commit We had a convention that
Speaker 1: sort of fell apart. Yeah, I'm aware. I had my
Speaker 1: plane ticket in hotel and I had already checked the
Speaker 1: flight in and it was literally that morning when I'm watching,
Speaker 1: I'm getting tweets from fans that know me, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's going okay? And I reached out and like, I
Speaker 1: have this ticket, I could go. I just feel guilty
Speaker 1: because it's your money that I'm going to be spending,
Speaker 1: So try to be supportive on what you guys did.
Speaker 1: There was brilliance. I used, you know, making lemonade. That's
Speaker 1: really all we did. But so the first day I
Speaker 1: met fans in the hotel and then I left because
Speaker 1: I had to go to a bachelor party. It was
Speaker 1: only supposed to do that one day anyway. And then
Speaker 1: the next day everyone met around the bench that's where
Speaker 1: Anna and everyone went and go. When and saw everyone
Speaker 1: was like, look we're going to meet around the bench.
Speaker 1: That's go and hang out and you know, do what
Speaker 1: we can um and it was nice. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it was mental. It was a mental mental thing to happen,
Speaker 1: but it was nice to have, Like you say, this
Speaker 1: is this is sort of our spot in in which
Speaker 1: that could have been what that was horrible, at least
Speaker 1: something good came out of it. Exactly. That's what the
Speaker 1: Shadow Firm does. You know, anytime something happens, good or bad,
Speaker 1: they always find a way to make something good out
Speaker 1: of it. And I will forever be in awe of
Speaker 1: this community. John, I gotta ask, what are your favorite locations? Like?
Speaker 1: I don't want to say one because that seems like
Speaker 1: an impossible that could be like trying to do stuff
Speaker 1: on my my laptop whilst also speaking into microphone and
Speaker 1: freaking idiot. Um, let's say top top two or top three?
Speaker 1: Is that too much? Gonna hate the first one? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: because anyone who knows me in town is gonna expect
Speaker 1: the answer. Um. I am a very big fan of
Speaker 1: the former hern generating when that funk the herd? How
Speaker 1: have we not spoken about that? Beautiful? It looks amazing
Speaker 1: it I've spent I've spent a massive amount of my
Speaker 1: career in that building. Everyone has. It's so funny we
Speaker 1: had zach Levi I do you remember when we saw
Speaker 1: zach Levi. I come up and he was like, we're
Speaker 1: filming in this place more it's it's like the heroine
Speaker 1: or the herd, and I was like, you're filming in that?
Speaker 1: He was like, dude, I'm in the super suit. I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, let's tell you bright try
Speaker 1: and stays We're going to show where We rented it
Speaker 1: for a year. Show was that the second season of
Speaker 1: c for Apple TV. The first couple of episodes we
Speaker 1: literally built where those columns are, like where the tunnely
Speaker 1: aspect of it is. We literally turned that into ten
Speaker 1: blocks of a city four years in the future that
Speaker 1: with like two story buildings and rope wires and future.
Speaker 1: So the sea was the Jason momoister as an Apple
Speaker 1: where there's a viral a plague that turns everybody blind
Speaker 1: and then you now cut into the future where everyone's
Speaker 1: basically blinded, being each other with swords and sticks, like
Speaker 1: their technology doesn't at all. It sounds like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: first season was shot in Vancouver. They season two and
Speaker 1: three in Ontario. UM, but the idea was it was
Speaker 1: an entire world where everyone is sightless, so you know
Speaker 1: there's ropes where they can use their sticks to get
Speaker 1: around in the designer it was it was actually another
Speaker 1: show where we were all very open and collaborative and
Speaker 1: creative because we were building a world, but they needed
Speaker 1: this big space that worked. And the designer came in
Speaker 1: and the producers they loved the space because we could
Speaker 1: build a world. It is I mean it is. It
Speaker 1: is gothically beautiful and can become anything. Really is it?
Speaker 1: Is it the prettiest pills in the world. No, But
Speaker 1: I take any director in the place, they all lose
Speaker 1: their minds. Well, it's just the way the light bounce
Speaker 1: is and there's so many lines and angles and shadows
Speaker 1: and you know Ravens one we used the outside for Renlis.
Speaker 1: It has multiple of looks. That's that's why I like it.
Speaker 1: Um trying to think of what else. I mean, the
Speaker 1: conservation area that we did lake Lynn and also the
Speaker 1: garden Rockwood is another favorite of mine, just because topographically
Speaker 1: it's very different. It always looks good on camera. Other
Speaker 1: ruins were the whole lake Lynn thing. We were up there.
Speaker 1: We were up there for like a week when we
Speaker 1: and it was just like every day was gorgeous. We'd
Speaker 1: get there in the mornings and like the ice had
Speaker 1: covered everything. They were like ferrets running across the ice
Speaker 1: and it was just like the most breathtakingly beautiful place.
Speaker 1: And then the ice melted and we got to see
Speaker 1: the lake and it was absolutely stunning. Yea. And they
Speaker 1: got to go back and spend two nights with fake
Speaker 1: snow and on the red gown. Well, and even the
Speaker 1: there was that one scene we were chasing at gold
Speaker 1: now or at sunset with that fight scene in the
Speaker 1: woods and just the way that the sun was setting
Speaker 1: to with the trees and how the drone got to
Speaker 1: drive through and everything. It just limestone, fast row. Just
Speaker 1: it looks great. Fly to fly, yes, that's the words
Speaker 1: you're looking for. Drive on air or fly. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not a drone operator. I don't know the terminology.
Speaker 1: If I had to pick two of those would be
Speaker 1: the two. But we were lucky to be in a
Speaker 1: lot of really visually great places that worked. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: all thanks to you, clearly thanks to I'm one of
Speaker 1: many many people that make it all happen. I mean
Speaker 1: thanks to you and your team that works with me.
Speaker 1: But even then it's just you know, it's on screen
Speaker 1: it's it's the set dressing, it's the cinematography, it's the
Speaker 1: special effects. We're all cogs in this machine that put
Speaker 1: this town blow up. There, we're going to marry up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what the heart and soul of shadow Hunters was.
Speaker 1: Everyone committed to that. You know, I'm you know, being
Speaker 1: a cog in the machine, but also trying to help
Speaker 1: the machine run better simultaneously. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: you see so many incredible things happen in that show.
Speaker 1: Kidding definitely, but I mean, like I said, even you
Speaker 1: know the church that we did with the Church of Talta,
Speaker 1: with that ballroom scene that we had to dress every
Speaker 1: single time we went into that place. Yes, that was
Speaker 1: I got to see so little of that because I
Speaker 1: had the fucking head on the whole time. I could see,
Speaker 1: like the eyes I could be, had the dress and
Speaker 1: build that every time. Oh my god, that's right. But
Speaker 1: oddly enough, that was a recycled location that was the
Speaker 1: same one we used in the very first episode as
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Academy of Art. No, was it really Yea,
Speaker 1: that was the same church, same building. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: That's insane, wow, unbelievable, Like I said, I asked to
Speaker 1: find something in Matt's eyes that was decrepit ballroom, and
Speaker 1: we just couldn't find anything that worked perfectly. But this
Speaker 1: we could make that space work. And I mean I
Speaker 1: remember it took them like eight hours of just putting
Speaker 1: the cobwebsite every time that every time it appeared in
Speaker 1: the script. Again, it was just like it's more just
Speaker 1: having to match what was seen before and tell John, Tell,
Speaker 1: tell the people at home how you do cob webs,
Speaker 1: because obviously we don't leave spider holes. That's like it's
Speaker 1: like this nozzle. It's almost like a insulating foam sprayer
Speaker 1: and they just sprays out like strands of I don't
Speaker 1: know what the dries up. Yeah, it's like hot blue
Speaker 1: being rejected. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a hot blue gun.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that because the cob webs there were
Speaker 1: like over everything from the air coming down it was
Speaker 1: and it was like two guys in respirators just spraying
Speaker 1: all this stuff. And then someone had to come in
Speaker 1: with dust to age and all the dust it Oh,
Speaker 1: I remember the dust we had. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember them. In Lilith's apartment, everything was covered in
Speaker 1: a layer of dust and had to be redusted constant
Speaker 1: all the time, like when you take rafters. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that's right. Oh man, Yeah, no kidding, well, John,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Before we let
Speaker 1: you go, I do I just want to ask, what's
Speaker 1: what's next, what's coming up? What do you headed towards?
Speaker 1: What do you want to do? What's it like? Uh?
Speaker 1: My dream job went to New York this year. I
Speaker 1: can't say it out loud. There was a Marvel show
Speaker 1: that was going to be coming up here that because
Speaker 1: the cast didn't want to relocate, end up going in
Speaker 1: New York. Um, they don't know. Toronto. Toronto is amazing.
Speaker 1: The studio was all for it. It was just the
Speaker 1: one one of the key actors really is insisted on
Speaker 1: not leaving New York City, got it. I guess I'm
Speaker 1: happy to be I'm you know, content to be employed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I've been lucky enough to be consistently working.
Speaker 1: It's just a bit of a quiet time right now.
Speaker 1: So I'm just waiting to see what's next. It's a
Speaker 1: couple of projects I'm waiting to see whether they're ready
Speaker 1: to go. And it's so funny trying to into people
Speaker 1: like what a quiet period is, Like people not in
Speaker 1: the industry who are like, odd, I just heard that
Speaker 1: they're doing this. You should audition for this, And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you just hearing that it's happening means it's like in
Speaker 1: the beginning stay ages of pre production. I'm that's not
Speaker 1: gonna hite my desk for a year, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, It's not going to stop filming for a
Speaker 1: year and a half. Like there's all two years even
Speaker 1: Like that's not it's just not how this works. January
Speaker 1: by the time that they've already started exactly in the
Speaker 1: can and just sitting there, it's done. Yeah. That's the
Speaker 1: thing is it's pre pandemic. We had the artificial streaming boom,
Speaker 1: which is why it was it was busy, and then
Speaker 1: COVID hit and then afterwards it was just insanity. And
Speaker 1: now we've gone back to what the rhythm used to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been doing this long enough to know
Speaker 1: December January you don't really work February March. It's cyclical up.
Speaker 1: Just getting back used to that. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: the pandemic changed, Yeah, it changed quite a lot. You
Speaker 1: know why wasn't we were in the middle of a show.
Speaker 1: The dropped tools. I was. They kept me employed part
Speaker 1: time the whole time because we literally just walked away
Speaker 1: from million dollar sets that we're all out like. C
Speaker 1: was a very huge show with a lot of the
Speaker 1: massive sets that were built. They just walked away, and
Speaker 1: then we came back and hellishly took what was supposed
Speaker 1: to be a television series and decided we wanted to
Speaker 1: shoot it with one director and do it like a feature.
Speaker 1: How many episodes do you do? Eight? So we also
Speaker 1: then had season two. They decided, Okay, we're gonna block.
Speaker 1: We're gonna block, shoot it like a like a feature.
Speaker 1: So a hundred and seventy four days. By the way,
Speaker 1: you have four weeks of prep. Holy well, Jason Momoa
Speaker 1: schedule was so tight that we had to shoot too.
Speaker 1: It was it was a slog. I mean, that was
Speaker 1: that job. Those two seasons was twenty seven months of work. Unbelievable,
Speaker 1: but hey, working, you know, working somehow you accomplish it though.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. The film again, it was a huge
Speaker 1: show with big explosions and big stuff, and you know,
Speaker 1: we were outside a lot, which was nice, especially in
Speaker 1: the winter. Yeah, no kidding, how quite describe it to people?
Speaker 1: Like shooting in New York and they're bringing me my
Speaker 1: jacket every time it gets close to zero celsius. I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't want about you guys. Four years I did four
Speaker 1: years and so on. I don't want. So it was
Speaker 1: a conference in one location conference in London called Focus
Speaker 1: I go to every year because I go on to
Speaker 1: a trade association and it's in the first week. It's
Speaker 1: usually it's the first Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in December and
Speaker 1: I show up there and everyone there is stick with
Speaker 1: your coats and I'm like, it's the springtime. What are
Speaker 1: you're talking about? Yeah exactly. Nice. Yeah, you're in your shorts,
Speaker 1: like ready to go for the beach like Canada. I
Speaker 1: don't even own one of those. Yeah exactly. I mean
Speaker 1: I was in Santa Fe shooting you know, a Western
Speaker 1: this year, and yes, it's cold, but you know, I'm
Speaker 1: wearing so much Fabrica on that show. I'm like, guys,
Speaker 1: come on, I have so many layers. This is this
Speaker 1: is nothing, this is me I was. I was in
Speaker 1: Atlanta right before Christmas and it was everyone there is
Speaker 1: complaining how cold it is, and like it's one degree
Speaker 1: celsius what you're talking about that We're good. I don't
Speaker 1: worry about it anyway. John, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being a proud of us than sharing the stories. Um,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. I mean for us it means
Speaker 1: such a such a lot because people get this insight
Speaker 1: about the geniuses who really put this show together. So
Speaker 1: thank you for not only being on the podcast, but
Speaker 1: for being such an integral part of our show. Absolutely
Speaker 1: and my pleasure. It's got a highlight for me. It
Speaker 1: means so much to share these dories because Dom and
Speaker 1: I can talk about it all. We want to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: John told us this, and John said that and he
Speaker 1: did this thing. But to hear it from you and
Speaker 1: to hear your perspective and your insight, and I learned
Speaker 1: so much today. Thanks so much. I'm happy to talk
Speaker 1: about the show anytime you have questions and complaints about
Speaker 1: why we shot stuff in where I can always give
Speaker 1: you the you know what, next time we do a
Speaker 1: mail bag episode. Alright, angels, here's the deal. Next time
Speaker 1: we do a mail bag episode, if you have any
Speaker 1: questions for John drama that was decisions for what was
Speaker 1: made and when and where and why certain people if
Speaker 1: people understand I get start up early enough that we're there.
Speaker 1: When they discussed why certain people get hired in season one,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of drama season one that I
Speaker 1: remember some of it. That's why certain people weren't asked
Speaker 1: back and going to go. And we've got another episode
Speaker 1: to film right after this. But again, John, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Thank you, John, Thank you. Hi Return to
Speaker 1: the Shadows as hosted an executive produced by me Dominic,
Speaker 1: Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Linggley. Our
Speaker 1: senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producer
Speaker 1: is Hannah Harris and Kristin Familiar, and our intern is
Speaker 1: Sam Kat's. Original music by Alex Kinzy performed by Alex
Speaker 1: Kinzy and Kathryn McNamara, and the episode was mixed by
Speaker 1: Seth A landscape