Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Speaker 1: Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffor, joined as always
Speaker 1: by my trusted colleague Weston Hodkowitz. We're coming to you
Speaker 1: hear from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. It
Speaker 1: is Tuesday. Draft Day is Thursday, a little more than
Speaker 1: forty eight hours away. The Chicago Calebs will be on
Speaker 1: the clock to select their new quarterback. Lots to get
Speaker 1: to today and kind of our draft preview, we're gonna talk.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw some questions at you, talk some different scenarios.
Speaker 1: But a couple things I want to touch on first.
Speaker 1: One is that one of our topics on the last
Speaker 1: show was how Brian Gudakuntz makes various offseason moves and
Speaker 1: signings so that he doesn't box himself into a corner
Speaker 1: in terms of glaring needs in the draft. And not
Speaker 1: long after we turned the cameras off last Thursday, an
Speaker 1: offensive tackle named Andre Dillard signed on the dotted line
Speaker 1: for the Packers, a former first round pick Packers are
Speaker 1: gonna give. This will be his third NFL team. He's
Speaker 1: with The Eagles. Then started a bunch of games with
Speaker 1: the Titans last year. Now he's in Green Bay with
Speaker 1: another shot in a sense to kind of try to
Speaker 1: revive his career a little bit. No guarantees that a
Speaker 1: player like this is going to make the roster, but
Speaker 1: just another example of how Brian Gudakouts goes about things
Speaker 1: in the offseason to build the most well rounded depth
Speaker 1: that he can so that he's not forced into doing
Speaker 1: anything during the three days of the draft.
Speaker 2: A win win for both sides. Now, I don't know
Speaker 2: the parameters of the contract, but to bring you up
Speaker 2: to speed a little bit on Dillard, he was a
Speaker 2: former first round pick with the Philadelphia Eagles. They loved
Speaker 2: his athleticism, that's the way Philadelphia likes to build out
Speaker 2: their line. Well, as it turned out, he had some
Speaker 2: injury things, they had some other stuff happen on the
Speaker 2: offensive line that he never really got a shot in Philly.
Speaker 2: So what that led to was Tennessee really rolling the
Speaker 2: dice last year on him as an unrestricted free agent
Speaker 2: game of three or twenty three million dollar contract, and
Speaker 2: it didn't go very well for him last season. But
Speaker 2: I think when you look at where he's at his career,
Speaker 2: I don't really know if he's ever had the chance
Speaker 2: yet to be the player that everybody thought he could
Speaker 2: be coming out of Washington State in twenty nineteen. And
Speaker 2: the reason I say that is you look at the
Speaker 2: way Green Bay builds offensive lineman. Yes, athleticism definitely matters.
Speaker 2: Look at what happened a couple of years ago with
Speaker 2: Sean Ryan and Zach Tom those guys shot through the
Speaker 2: roof testing wise at the NFL Scouting Combine. Dillard had
Speaker 2: an incredible run at the combine in twenty nineteen. It's
Speaker 2: what made him a first round pick. The Packers have
Speaker 2: done so well developing the raw attributes of players, and
Speaker 2: when you have somebody that was as talented as Dillard,
Speaker 2: I want to see him get a shot in green Bay.
Speaker 2: So from Green Bay's perspective, they needed to add another
Speaker 2: body to that room. They lost three so far this offseason,
Speaker 2: guys that played mini snaps for them over the last
Speaker 2: five years. So they had to make a response. They
Speaker 2: had to have an answer for Dillard. This is an
Speaker 2: opportunity to compete at a position that's going to be
Speaker 2: completely wide open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it's a It's a tremendous opportunity for a
Speaker 1: guy like Dillard to get a to get a reset
Speaker 1: on a fresh start, and we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 1: One other thing to ask you about quickly before I
Speaker 1: start tossing some questions at you. We heard from general
Speaker 1: manager Brian Gouda Kunstan Monday. He spoke with the media
Speaker 1: the annual pre draft news conference. Just your initial thoughts, reactions,
Speaker 1: anything that you heard in that roughly thirty five minutes
Speaker 1: that he was answering questions that stood out to.
Speaker 3: You thirty four or four on my recorder. Michael, okay, but.
Speaker 1: But maybe it's in change.
Speaker 2: Maybe you started earlier than I did. But no, I
Speaker 2: actually thought it was a very enlightening overall press conference.
Speaker 2: I thought he touched on a lot of things. Again,
Speaker 2: he's not going to sit there and give you the
Speaker 2: draft board and what they're thinking going into.
Speaker 1: The Yeah, it's not a PowerPoint presidentation to the media.
Speaker 1: Here's our here's our draft boards. You know exactly what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do.
Speaker 2: I understand why you can't even do that afterwards, because
Speaker 2: there's certain things you don't want to give away.
Speaker 3: But man, that'd be fun.
Speaker 2: Like on the week after the draft, you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: so that's what we're doing. By the way, I'll answer
Speaker 2: this question, but did you see what the Arizona Cardinals
Speaker 2: did that they put out the video they put out
Speaker 2: I think last night no fascinating video with their GM
Speaker 2: which they filmed him the entire time while he was
Speaker 2: negotiating the trade at number three and then when they
Speaker 2: were trying to move back up. It was almost like a.
Speaker 1: You're talking this is last year, last year, last year's.
Speaker 2: It's like a higher stakes version of what Brian did
Speaker 2: in eighteen where he moved back and then he had
Speaker 2: to go back up to get Giara get Jiri. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was really interesting. I mean, the guy's working
Speaker 2: the phones, he's talking to multiple teams. If you have
Speaker 2: a chance, check it out. The Cardinals, I believe, put
Speaker 2: it out on their Instagram and on their Twitter page.
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating look into just how hectic that is
Speaker 2: while the clock is ticking on their pick. But that
Speaker 2: being said, from Brian being able to discuss with us
Speaker 2: sort of his insight, you always gain more about what's
Speaker 2: happened in the past than what's going to happen in
Speaker 2: this draft. And I thought he did an excellent job
Speaker 2: at one explaining the success that Green Bay's had the
Speaker 2: last three years with these drafts. How a lot of
Speaker 2: these draft picks they've had has tied into that they've
Speaker 2: picked twenty four times the last two years. They're going
Speaker 2: to pick eleven more times as it stands right now
Speaker 2: going into Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Brian did say he'd
Speaker 2: be happy to add more picks to that though, if
Speaker 2: that's how it would work out. But the other thing
Speaker 2: I thought was cool was like him explaining his rational
Speaker 2: in the second round, because about a week ago, Mike,
Speaker 2: I brought this to you while I was working on
Speaker 2: Insider Inbox. The Packers traded back from forty five to
Speaker 2: fifty and by doing that last.
Speaker 1: It was two trades, two trades to go back five
Speaker 1: spots in the second round last year.
Speaker 2: They gained the fifth round pick that eventually became Dantavian Wicks,
Speaker 2: and they gained the sixth round pick that eventually became
Speaker 2: Carl Brooks, and by doing that they got Jaden Reid.
Speaker 2: What was the most illuminating to me, because this reminds you,
Speaker 2: and it's something you were touching on with Gudacuns too.
Speaker 2: What the Packers draft board looks like is not what
Speaker 2: ESPN dot COM's.
Speaker 3: Draft board looks like.
Speaker 2: Right. He mentioned that, Yeah, we took a risk that
Speaker 2: we might not get Jaden Reid. There's going to be
Speaker 2: five players you're not gonna get that you probably had
Speaker 2: on your board at that point in the race. But
Speaker 2: they like Tucker Craft. They didn't have Tucker Craft rated
Speaker 2: that differently from Luke Musgrave. So if Jaden Reid isn't there,
Speaker 2: they would have been filling fine with taking Tucker Craft
Speaker 2: where they did. Instead, he ends up being there in
Speaker 2: the third round. Yeah, and the rest is history. That's
Speaker 2: the type of stuff that happens every single year. It's
Speaker 2: very rarely discussed, but you know, especially as you get
Speaker 2: farther into this draft, there's gonna be guys that certain
Speaker 2: teams have at ranked one hundred and there's gonna be
Speaker 2: guys that are.
Speaker 3: At two hundred for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it all depends on the way things scout. I
Speaker 2: just felt like for the thirty minutes that Brian talked,
Speaker 2: we gain a lot of clarity into what his process
Speaker 2: is like and obviously these big decisions that are gonna
Speaker 2: be made in a.
Speaker 3: Couple of days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one thing I've learned over the years, and
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to understand sometimes exactly what a
Speaker 1: draft board looks like when somebody trades back, saying Brian's
Speaker 1: first draft when he traded back a whole bunch of spot,
Speaker 1: but then, of course his plan all along was to
Speaker 1: move back up to take Jay r Alexander. But I've
Speaker 1: learned that when somebody just trades back a few spots,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's three or five, maybe even six
Speaker 1: or seven spots, it's because they have a handful of
Speaker 1: guys rated almost equally on their board and they would
Speaker 1: be happy taking any of them. So rather than just
Speaker 1: you know, roll the dice and pick one guy because
Speaker 1: a certain number gets rolled, they're like, hey, if we
Speaker 1: can pick up an extra pick later in the draft,
Speaker 1: move back and we know that one of these guys
Speaker 1: that we have rated equally is still going to be there.
Speaker 1: You know, boom there it is. Now the follow up
Speaker 1: question that of course Brian's not going to answer to
Speaker 1: your scenario last year, is okay, so you had Jaden Reed,
Speaker 1: you had Tucker Craft. Was there anybody else that was
Speaker 1: sort of on that same line that you would have
Speaker 1: been comfortable taking after you traded back a couple times.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of how this thing. That's kind of
Speaker 1: how this thing works. And you're exactly right as much
Speaker 1: as whether you're watching NFL Network or watching ESPN, and
Speaker 1: you've got you know, mel Kiper's best available, and you've
Speaker 1: got you know, whoever does it now? Daniel Jeremiah, I
Speaker 1: guess is one of the main guys on the NFL network.
Speaker 1: Daniel Jeremiah is best available. That's not what There are
Speaker 1: thirty two teams in this league, and there are thirty
Speaker 1: two different draft boards. They've all done their own evaluations,
Speaker 1: they have their own opinions, they have their own roster needs,
Speaker 1: and teams work need into the equation of their evaluation
Speaker 1: at different levels. You know, some some you know weight
Speaker 1: that even more. Some don't wait it as much. So
Speaker 1: everybody's board is an individual thing and that's what's so
Speaker 1: fascinating about how this unfolds. So that leads me to
Speaker 1: my first question. I want to ask you since we're
Speaker 1: talking about trades and and kind of how that works.
Speaker 3: GOODA.
Speaker 1: Kuntz is going into this draft with eleven picks. How
Speaker 1: many picks ultimately over the course of the three days,
Speaker 1: do you think he's going to make how.
Speaker 2: Many picks the packers will make the they will make
Speaker 2: a dozen picks. They will have twelve picks when it's
Speaker 2: all said and done. I don't see Green Bay moving
Speaker 2: down from eleven now. I mean that doesn't say they
Speaker 2: couldn't trade up at some point, but I feel like
Speaker 2: the eleven is going to be locked in and it's
Speaker 2: going to be about how much do they add on
Speaker 2: the back end of it. Because here's the main reason
Speaker 2: for that, the five in the top five. I think
Speaker 2: it was you that pointed out, but somebody mentioned it.
Speaker 2: I think with the press conference, with that, with those
Speaker 2: picks and the value of those picks, you can use
Speaker 2: them to move up, maybe even in the first round, certainly,
Speaker 2: But by doing that then you're then for going a
Speaker 2: pick that Brian Gudukunz himself said is very difficult to obtain.
Speaker 2: Teams don't want to give up top one hundred picks.
Speaker 2: They just don't. It's too good of a lottery ticket.
Speaker 2: You don't know what kind of player you're going to
Speaker 2: get out of that. And as I've talked about add
Speaker 2: nauseum now an inbox, it's those picks in the second, third, fourth,
Speaker 2: and sometimes fifth round that end up building championship teams
Speaker 2: because you're only going to get that one first rounder.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get a couple extra swings after that.
Speaker 3: Can you make them count?
Speaker 2: I think the Packers take twelve players. I feel like
Speaker 2: one thing that has definitely changed in the Goudakuns era
Speaker 2: from the Ted Thompson era is ted. For a time
Speaker 2: there was just kind of giving away those seventh rounders.
Speaker 2: Not giving away, but he was just throwing him into trades.
Speaker 2: I remember he did a couple with the New England
Speaker 2: Patriots just like, okay, take a seventh rounder. Everybody gets
Speaker 2: a seventh rounder. And I think part of that was
Speaker 2: he wanted to get started on undrafted free agency. He
Speaker 2: wanted to get the college thing figured out. But Brian
Speaker 2: has taken an opposite approach. He likes taking those seventh
Speaker 2: round picks. He likes building those up. Last year they
Speaker 2: took what three or four. That's a valuable commodity too.
Speaker 2: And I don't think necessarily youre going to see as
Speaker 2: many of those throw in trades as you did in
Speaker 2: the past.
Speaker 1: I think, and I wonder, and this would be maybe
Speaker 1: a question to ask Brian at some point. I wonder
Speaker 1: if just if the whole the college free agency thing
Speaker 1: has just gotten that much more competitive maybe in recent years,
Speaker 1: to where those seventh round picks are a little bit
Speaker 1: more valuable because you can you can get a guy
Speaker 1: that maybe you were planning to sign as an undrafted rookie,
Speaker 1: but now you don't have to compete with anybody for him.
Speaker 1: It's like you just use that seventh round pick to
Speaker 1: get him, So teams aren't necessarily as willing to just
Speaker 1: to toss those around. I will keep I I just
Speaker 1: wonder that speculation.
Speaker 2: I'll keep using the Anthony Johnson Junior topic.
Speaker 3: Last year.
Speaker 2: I was one of two people, I think it was
Speaker 2: me and Jason Wildey were the only one on his
Speaker 2: conference call last year, and he mentioned because there was
Speaker 2: just so much chaos happening with the guys and picks
Speaker 2: and conference calls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, four seventh round picks yes year.
Speaker 2: For in Johnson Junior said He's like, no, I was
Speaker 2: already I was signed up with somebody already. I would
Speaker 2: already basically agreed to a college free agency deal with
Speaker 2: another team. And then the Green bit Packers came swooping
Speaker 2: and they said we're taking this guy. And then Lo
Speaker 2: and behold, he's a player that ends up playing three
Speaker 2: hundred plus defensive STAPs, has four spots starts, and now
Speaker 2: is actually in that conversation to start alongside Xavier McKinney.
Speaker 2: So those are valuable things to have in your back
Speaker 2: pocket if you need to be able to revisit them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to answer the question, I actually think the Packers
Speaker 1: are going to end up with eleven picks, but I
Speaker 1: don't think Brian Gudukunz is just gonna sit and pick
Speaker 1: at every spot. I agree with what you said and
Speaker 1: the way Gutakunz does view those second and third round picks,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't that long ago we saw him take
Speaker 1: two second rounders and move up to get Christian Watson.
Speaker 1: He's made moves like that before. I think he's going
Speaker 1: to end up with eleven picks, but it's going to
Speaker 1: be a mix and match of a trade up here,
Speaker 1: a trade down there, and he's ultimately going to end
Speaker 1: up with a draft class of eleven. But he's not
Speaker 1: just going to sit and pick at all eleven spots.
Speaker 2: Most fascinating thing about last year's draft, Mike, they traded
Speaker 2: back twice in the second round. You and I we
Speaker 2: were scrambling. They did not trade again the rest of
Speaker 2: that draft y. Once they got to the third round,
Speaker 2: they just picked where they were.
Speaker 1: Then they picked where they were sitting. Yeah, next question
Speaker 1: for you Weston. In the first round, the Packers currently
Speaker 1: own the number twenty five overall pick, trade up, trade down,
Speaker 1: or sit and pick at twenty five? What do you
Speaker 1: think mister Guta Kuntz is gonna do?
Speaker 2: See here's what's funny, because I just got done talking
Speaker 2: about Oh you don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much they're gonna trade.
Speaker 2: I don't know where they're I think the one thing
Speaker 2: I've seen with Brian is if there is a guy
Speaker 2: that he likes in the first round, he's gonna go
Speaker 2: get that player.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: So this answer is contingent on whether or not that
Speaker 2: player is available or that player falls. But if you're
Speaker 2: asking me to put down my just play money chips
Speaker 2: on a move here, I would say they actually do
Speaker 2: trade up. I wonder because when I've been doing these
Speaker 2: drop and these mock draft simulators, and who's to say
Speaker 2: who the Packers are really truly interested in? But there
Speaker 2: always ends up being one guy that falls. I just
Speaker 2: did another one just now and Leatu Latu is actually
Speaker 2: the guy that and this for the first time popped
Speaker 2: up is available at twenty five. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: whether it's one of these offensive linemen, whether it is
Speaker 2: a Cooper Dejene, whether it is one of these cornerbacks,
Speaker 2: or whether it is maybe like one of the top
Speaker 2: edge rushers or a Byron Murphy. The second, if somebody
Speaker 2: like that is coming into your orbit, is that where
Speaker 2: you go and make a play. I don't think they
Speaker 2: move up twelve spots to get a player. It's going
Speaker 2: to take way too much equity. Yeah, but I could
Speaker 2: see it trying to leapfrog somebody if there's a player
Speaker 2: available that they cover.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: For me, I'll just start by saying I have no
Speaker 1: idea what Brian is going to do.
Speaker 3: That's a lie.
Speaker 1: And but I could see I could see any one
Speaker 1: of the three possibilities happening. You know, I think I
Speaker 1: think any of them are on the table. I think
Speaker 1: it's going to depend on what the board looks like,
Speaker 1: how it unfolds. I would say, after the first fifteen
Speaker 1: to sixteen picks, then what does it look like? Because
Speaker 1: I agree with you, if he trades up, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's going to be a massive jump like you
Speaker 1: know of fifteen or sixteen spots or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I could see a jump of you know, seven
Speaker 1: or eight spots for example, something like that. I could
Speaker 1: also see him trading back. I could see him sitting
Speaker 1: and picking. This is this is what I've decided for
Speaker 1: those who want my opinion, this is how I see it.
Speaker 1: If Brian Gudukunz is trading up, I think he's trading
Speaker 1: up for either a corner or a defensive lineman. You're
Speaker 1: talking about dejen Quinion Mitchell from Toledo, or defensive lineman
Speaker 1: like Byron Murphy or like Johnny Newton from Illinois, something
Speaker 1: like that. If he's trading back, I think it's because
Speaker 1: he's got his eye on one of those off the
Speaker 1: ball linebackers like an Edger and Cooper, maybe a Peyton Wilson.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't think he needs to use the twenty
Speaker 1: fifth pick to get that guy. But he can't wait
Speaker 1: until forty one to get him. He feels like if
Speaker 1: he wants that guy, he's gonna have to get him
Speaker 1: somewhere in between there. But he'll trade back and get
Speaker 1: some more draft assets. For later on. If he's gonna
Speaker 1: sit and pick, he's gonna take an offensive lineman because
Speaker 1: I think there are going to be choices at offensive
Speaker 1: line at pick twenty five, because the top of this
Speaker 1: draft appears to be so deep at offensive line, at
Speaker 1: least compared to some other Did you.
Speaker 2: Read what I wrote an inbox about Graham Barton in
Speaker 2: Amarus mem Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you think?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll let people in on this. I can't do
Speaker 2: things out of topic. I have to actually explain it
Speaker 2: on the show. Basically, the point I make because somebody said, well,
Speaker 2: if you have an elite tackle or an elite prospect
Speaker 2: at interior alignment, how do you view them? Me personally,
Speaker 2: when you take somebody like Barton, who is a college
Speaker 2: left tackle who has been the best offensive lineman for
Speaker 2: Duke for a number of years now, but is projected
Speaker 2: to be inside, I actually view them the same because
Speaker 2: the way I look at it, again, if you're not
Speaker 2: at Alabama, if you're not at Georgia, if you're not
Speaker 2: at one of these power national championship contender programs, I
Speaker 2: want you to be the best offensive lineman on your team. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you have to play left tackle, but
Speaker 2: I want you to be the best offensive lineman. Barton
Speaker 2: is absolutely that. What I'm curious about is that so
Speaker 2: many times we've heard these We've heard these pre draft
Speaker 2: pundits project a player at a certain position and that
Speaker 2: does not end up being the case. David Baktiyari, a
Speaker 2: five time All Pro left tackle, was supposed to play
Speaker 2: center in the National Football League. He wasn't big enough,
Speaker 2: is what people said, and then there he is.
Speaker 1: Or guard or guard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's those type of moves that I look
Speaker 2: at where when you see Zach tom do what he did,
Speaker 2: or Elton Jenkins do what he did, I just think
Speaker 2: you got to get bodies in there. Now. The thing
Speaker 2: I don't know is when you are six foot eight
Speaker 2: and you are three hundred and forty pounds and you
Speaker 2: run a five forty like Amarius Mims, but you only
Speaker 2: have this limited workload, I don't know how Brian Goodikuin's
Speaker 2: judges that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a big that's kind of the
Speaker 1: big mystery.
Speaker 3: But that's but isn't that what's interesting about this?
Speaker 2: You have a guy like Barton who has this huge
Speaker 2: workload and all this tape in what Duke was able
Speaker 2: to accomplish the last few years a team that has
Speaker 2: not historically had a ton of success.
Speaker 3: R is so credentialed.
Speaker 2: I think people everybody agrees he's going to be a
Speaker 2: starter for years in the NFL. Just where's it going
Speaker 2: to come at? Whereas Mims is this raw, high ceiling
Speaker 2: prospect that you might need some time to develop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough pickle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mims to Mims to me is a is a
Speaker 1: classic Brian Gudakun's Green Bay Packers offensive lineman pick, because
Speaker 1: because they would they would be like, yes, only eight
Speaker 1: starts in college, but they see all the traits, they
Speaker 1: see the upside. They're like, this guy, maybe he needs
Speaker 1: a little bit of time, but then you know he
Speaker 1: can he can be the next Brian Blaga and play
Speaker 1: one of the tackle spots for ten years and you
Speaker 1: never worry about him. Right like that that, I think
Speaker 1: they would potentially view him that way, But of course
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe maybe they see a lot more
Speaker 1: flaws on tape and he's not he's not as high
Speaker 1: on their board as maybe he is on other team's board.
Speaker 3: You know what I love about it? Though?
Speaker 2: Then this is why I'm so intrigued by the idea
Speaker 2: of an offensive lineman in the first round, even though
Speaker 2: I know fans it isn't the sexiest pick, right. It's
Speaker 2: the fact that you look at what Rashid Walker did
Speaker 2: as a seventh rounder, you look at what yash Naiman
Speaker 2: did as an.
Speaker 1: Undrafted draft to develop.
Speaker 2: When you take somebody that has so many tools and
Speaker 2: you put him into this program with what Adam Stenovich,
Speaker 2: Luke Buckkiss, what they've been able to develop with offensive lineman,
Speaker 2: I just think that's really intriguing because it's been a
Speaker 2: minute now since the Packers have actually had a first
Speaker 2: round pick that they chose in that offensive line round.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I'm gonna take care a little bit of
Speaker 1: sponsor business here, and then we're gonna keep going because
Speaker 1: I got more questions for you. Today's show is going
Speaker 1: to be a little bit longer, justin our producer, sorry,
Speaker 1: a little longer than usual, but we're only doing one
Speaker 1: show this week because with the draft on Thursday, we
Speaker 1: will wait until the following Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Justin, I hope your mom's lunch is still in refrigerator
Speaker 2: not at your desk, because it's gonna get warm.
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Speaker 1: much talking about the first round now, but as far
Speaker 1: as perhaps later in the draft. A couple questions throwout you.
Speaker 1: The first one is Brian Gudukunz has shown no hesitation
Speaker 1: whatsoever in stocking a position, doubling up, maybe even tripling
Speaker 1: up at a position when the depth on the roster
Speaker 1: calls for that. Do you see him doing that in
Speaker 1: this draft? And if so, at what position or positions
Speaker 1: might the Packers come away with multiple selections?
Speaker 2: Okay, so hear me out on this, because I understand
Speaker 2: the Packers have a need at cornerback. So it's not
Speaker 2: like I'm saying, oh, what a you know, epiphany Wes
Speaker 2: is having here? But I thought last year showed that
Speaker 2: you can never get comfortable at a position. Absolutely jyr Alexander,
Speaker 2: Eric Stokes, Keishawn Nixon, Rasoul Douglas. How many times did
Speaker 2: we say last year, Mike and I know that Stokes
Speaker 2: was coming back, but how many times did we talk about, man,
Speaker 2: where are they going.
Speaker 3: To put all these guys?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they never once had a deal with that during
Speaker 2: the season. They maybe for a week just because of
Speaker 2: how injuries affected that position. And then as soon as
Speaker 2: it looks like Stokes is going to be back, Jaws back,
Speaker 2: and then Stokes is out, and then Rasool is traded
Speaker 2: and this domino effect that never stopped last year taking
Speaker 2: Carrington Valentine in the seventh round when they didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: need a cornerback. When Brian always talks about, you know,
Speaker 2: we're not just gonna take players just because there's a
Speaker 2: need there.
Speaker 3: We want to have competition.
Speaker 2: I thought Valentine was the best example of a guy that,
Speaker 2: even though it was a stack position, came in and
Speaker 2: earned his reps with the number ones in training camp. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: so I could see them easily taking a cornerback high
Speaker 2: and then going back at it, whether it be in
Speaker 2: the fourth round, the fifth round, day three some point.
Speaker 2: I just think there's enough value there especially with the
Speaker 2: interior with a slot position as either the nickel or
Speaker 2: the dime.
Speaker 3: I just think you have to have options there.
Speaker 2: Safety. I'm sure they're gonna take one. I love this
Speaker 2: draft class for a second round Nick Collins type safety
Speaker 2: if it's there. I don't know if there's necessarily a
Speaker 2: first round pick there, but I think there's definitely a
Speaker 2: second round one.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: I just feel like that's what has to happen. I
Speaker 2: could absolutely see them taking another receiver. But the only
Speaker 2: thing about that is I look at receiver a lot
Speaker 2: like cornerbacks. I'm not saying you need to get it
Speaker 2: to where Mike McCarthy had it, where it's okay, it's
Speaker 2: Jordan Nelson, Randall Cobb and DeVante Adams and nobody else
Speaker 2: gets on the field. But I want to see more
Speaker 2: Dantavian Wicks next year. I want to see him on
Speaker 2: the field. I want to see Jayden Reid. I hope
Speaker 2: that Christian Watson's healthy in Romeo Dobbs out there, and
Speaker 2: you have a bow Melton, you have so many guys
Speaker 2: to incorporate already that I feel like when you talk
Speaker 2: about competition and having competition, the Packers have competition there
Speaker 2: with how they've invested in that position the last two years.
Speaker 2: The competition is there next year if things are going
Speaker 2: well for Romeo or things are going well for Watson,
Speaker 2: and those guys are potentially coming up on contracts and
Speaker 2: you want to deepen it out again. I felt like
Speaker 2: that was one area where the Packers kind of came
Speaker 2: up short during DeVante Adams progress into an All pro.
Speaker 2: Is they just they weren't drafting receivers at that time consistently.
Speaker 2: Then you can dip in. But for me, I look
Speaker 2: at being able to give Jeff had a secondary coach,
Speaker 2: giving him more options on the back end.
Speaker 1: I see. I see potentially various spots where Guta Kunz
Speaker 1: could be doubling up in this draft. I definitely think
Speaker 1: in the secondary, and you know, when you're talking about
Speaker 1: a guy like Dejean who could play corner, could play
Speaker 1: could play safety. But I could see multiple corners, I
Speaker 1: could see multiple safeties being drafted. The spots that actually
Speaker 1: jump out to me as possible double ups, though, I
Speaker 1: think I think Gutakuntz is going to take multiple off
Speaker 1: ball linebackers because there there is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a shortage there with with how Jeff Hafley's going to
Speaker 1: play this defense and then I think offensive lineman. I
Speaker 1: you know, not saying specific positions, but I think he's
Speaker 1: going to come away with multiple offensive linemen in this draft.
Speaker 1: Because what was it you had the stat Excuse me,
Speaker 1: my voice is given out on me.
Speaker 3: I could say it. I could say the stat right now,
Speaker 3: if you want to clear your voice. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Since nineteen thirty six, the first time that everybody congregated
Speaker 2: down at what was it the Fister down in Milwaukee,
Speaker 2: the first draft they ever had back to back drafts,
Speaker 2: the Packers have never had two in a row without
Speaker 2: taking an offensive lineman, right, And I think that's an
Speaker 2: important thing to remember because last year they had all
Speaker 2: those draft picks, thirteen picks, they did not actually take
Speaker 2: an offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was pretty amazing actually, and it made sense.
Speaker 3: Everybody came back. Literally everybody was back.
Speaker 2: They had like fifteen guys with like NFL experience. But
Speaker 2: that's not the case now. You have to be able
Speaker 2: to deepen that reservoir.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another one for you. Brian Gudokunz mentioned at the
Speaker 1: scouting combine in Indianapolis, and I believe he reinforced it.
Speaker 1: At the owners meetings in Orlando. He's talked about trying
Speaker 1: to get back into the game of drafting quarterbacks. Do
Speaker 1: you think he does that? And when do you think
Speaker 1: perhaps he turns in that card for a quarterback six round?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: And I look at I brought up the Matt Hasselback
Speaker 2: thing again an inbox on Tuesday because somebody was asking,
Speaker 2: you know, Sean Clifford looked great last year, but what's
Speaker 2: his ideal, Like, what's the ideal course for him without
Speaker 2: Jordan Love getting hurt? And I said, it's making the
Speaker 2: most out of every single opportunity you make. Get as
Speaker 2: small as it may be, and it might be a
Speaker 2: thirty seven yard pass in a meaningless game to Bo Melton,
Speaker 2: but it is showing that you have that command of
Speaker 2: being able to develop. I love what Brian said about
Speaker 2: getting back in the development of quarterback that game, because Mike,
Speaker 2: one of the things I said over and over and
Speaker 2: over again, and I could see you getting blue in
Speaker 2: the face. You were tired of hearing it because it
Speaker 2: just got so redundant. But the draft pick of Jordan
Speaker 2: Love was an investment in twenty twenty. Everybody looks at
Speaker 2: this as Okay, you spent the pick. They didn't need
Speaker 2: a quarterback, no, but they did. And even if Aaron
Speaker 2: Rodgers would have played till fifty that was an investment
Speaker 2: that you could potentially that was a savings bond that
Speaker 2: you could eventually cash back in because of how important
Speaker 2: the quarterback position is in the National Football League. That's
Speaker 2: what I want to see them get back to, especially
Speaker 2: in these drafts have double digit picks, everything is going
Speaker 2: to be a crapshoot. Yes, you might find a Carl
Speaker 2: Bradford or a Rashid Walker or a Carrington Valentine, but
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't. And if you think there's a quarterback
Speaker 2: there with some intangible, some attribute that you really want
Speaker 2: to take a deeper look at, absolutely bring the man. Because,
Speaker 2: as we learned a couple weeks ago at the NFL
Speaker 2: Owners meetings, the emergency quarterback is back.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 2: Does it matter if they're on the fifty three man
Speaker 2: roster or not. You have that option now to bring
Speaker 2: him up as like this forty ninth man. Of course,
Speaker 2: your other two quarterbacks can no longer play in the game.
Speaker 2: There is more value there with the third quarterback than
Speaker 2: there was last season. So I feel like it's something
Speaker 2: that I would definitely move forward with if you have
Speaker 2: that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he takes a quarterback as well. I
Speaker 1: would say anywhere from the fifth rounder later. I don't
Speaker 1: see it happening in the fourth round or sooner.
Speaker 3: Because then you're locking yourself into a roster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think but I think fifth rounder later,
Speaker 1: I could definitely see another quarterback. I would love to
Speaker 1: know if he can find another Sean Clifford in the
Speaker 1: fifth round. Man, you you don't hesitate there.
Speaker 2: You take that guy absolutely, because Sean earned that roster
Speaker 2: spot last year. He wasn't that he just was a
Speaker 2: fifth round pick and he's locked in. No, he played
Speaker 2: better than everybody in that area. But the thing I
Speaker 2: really like that I think could be really valuable for
Speaker 2: them is if you are taking it in that later
Speaker 2: day three section, now you have a guy that can
Speaker 2: earn that spot.
Speaker 3: I'd love to see the last time a.
Speaker 2: Fourth round pick at quarterback ended up getting cut in
Speaker 2: that training camp. No, you're kind of locked into them
Speaker 2: being on the rosters. Too much investment there at too
Speaker 2: big of a position. Yeah, So I'd be very interested
Speaker 2: to see how that plays out.
Speaker 1: All Right, a couple more questions for you back into
Speaker 1: sort of some first round discussion here, and this is
Speaker 1: not necessarily pertaining to the Packers, but I want to
Speaker 1: get your thoughts on a couple things. Where does the
Speaker 1: first trade happen in this draft? Or Okay, so you
Speaker 1: think you think former Packers personnel executive Elliott Wolf, who's
Speaker 1: now running the Patriots draft and who has the number
Speaker 1: three overall pick, you don't think he's trading that pick
Speaker 1: to the Vikings.
Speaker 2: I love Elliott. He knows a lot more about football
Speaker 2: than I do. Think you got to take a quarterback.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you have to, but I'm saying you
Speaker 2: have to. The Patriots have been through a lot the
Speaker 2: last three years, and to have a guy in mac
Speaker 2: Jones that was a runner up for Offensive Rookie of
Speaker 2: the Year. It gets you to the playoffs and have
Speaker 2: that castle crumble the way it did. I think you
Speaker 2: need somebody that's going to be able to give you
Speaker 2: a boost. And I feel like you need somebody that's
Speaker 2: going to be able to reinvigorate that fan base.
Speaker 3: It starts with a quarterback.
Speaker 2: Now, if Robert Kraft and that establishment has told them, hey,
Speaker 2: Elliott you got five years to work with here. If
Speaker 2: you don't like any of these quarterbacks, we'll try it
Speaker 2: again next year. But the fact of the matter is, Mike,
Speaker 2: I think five of these quarterbacks are going to go
Speaker 2: on the top fifteen. I think four of them are
Speaker 2: going to go on the top ten. I just feel like,
Speaker 2: if you're the Patriots, you have to make that move now.
Speaker 1: So you think it's the Cardinals at number four are
Speaker 1: going to make the first trade.
Speaker 2: Unless they feel like Marvin Harrison jewing right, that's the
Speaker 2: wild character.
Speaker 1: Do they feel like, do they feel like they should
Speaker 1: pair Kyler Murray with Marvin Harrison Junior and use that
Speaker 1: four pick there, And because then the Chargers at five,
Speaker 1: the Chargers are trading out of that spot. Somebody, somebody's
Speaker 1: going to trade up to five and get their quarterback,
Speaker 1: and the Chargers are going to move back and get
Speaker 1: more draft.
Speaker 2: If somebody's Because here's the thing, let's say this is
Speaker 2: the way I think about it. I think Elliott takes
Speaker 2: the quarterback, whether that's Daniels, whether that's Drake, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 2: Somebody panics them for the fourth one. I feel like
Speaker 2: somebody sells the farm to get that fourth.
Speaker 1: Quarter, and it's going to be an offer the Cardinals
Speaker 1: can't refuse.
Speaker 3: That's that's that's right. You have a master's degree.
Speaker 1: Yep, I'm just do it.
Speaker 3: The Chargers are going to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. That's that's the thing. And that's
Speaker 1: where the I think you and I both agree because
Speaker 1: my last question here, I was going to throw at
Speaker 1: you the first non quarterback to be picked, Marvin Harrison Junior,
Speaker 1: that it has to be right.
Speaker 2: Because if there weren't all these quarterbacks, he'd be the
Speaker 2: number one overall pick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, I don't.
Speaker 2: I've said this to Justin actually, our producer. I said
Speaker 2: this a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3: I believe to him.
Speaker 2: Don't overthink it with Marvin Harrison Junior. Right again, I
Speaker 2: don't know how his career is going to play out,
Speaker 2: but he is the Andrew Luck of the receiver position.
Speaker 2: This guy has been billed as a number one overall
Speaker 2: pick for two years at Ohio State. It just so
Speaker 2: happens that quarterback is in a position you have to draft.
Speaker 1: This is this is the first this is the first time,
Speaker 1: and I don't follow. I admit I don't follow this
Speaker 1: the the all the non packer draft stuff as much
Speaker 1: as a lot of other people do. But this is
Speaker 1: the first time I can remember a receiver being talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, being taken in the first like five or
Speaker 1: six picks that I'm I'm as sold on him as
Speaker 1: a lot of the draft knicks are since Julio Jones,
Speaker 1: when the Falcons traded up to the number six spot
Speaker 1: and took Julio Jones and they didn't look back, and
Speaker 1: a lot of people criticize them for it because of
Speaker 1: what they gave up to take a wide receiver, But man,
Speaker 1: did that one work out for them? And if to me,
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison Junior feels like the next Julio Jones in
Speaker 1: that draft scenario. Obviously, they're different types of players.
Speaker 2: And you were the one that pointed out all the
Speaker 2: misses there have been with receivers over the last fifteen
Speaker 2: to twenty years.
Speaker 1: It's an ugly list.
Speaker 2: But Michael, the guys that are the legitimate prospects, the
Speaker 2: guys that everybody is hitching their wagons to. You don't
Speaker 2: get those guys in the third or fourth round. You
Speaker 2: don't find Megatron that late. You don't find Julio Jones
Speaker 2: that late if Marvin Harrison is the next one of
Speaker 2: that kind, right, you have to take, you have to take,
Speaker 2: and maybe the Cardinals will. But I'm just saying like
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where I feel like, once
Speaker 2: those first three quarterbacks are on the board, it's like
Speaker 2: your fantasy draft. Ye, people are gonna be like, oh, crap,
Speaker 2: I gotta get this somebody. I gotta get my running
Speaker 2: back before I don't have one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, if it does play out that way, it's
Speaker 1: going to be fascinating to see if the Patriots, if
Speaker 1: Elliott Will sits at three and picks and takes the
Speaker 1: third quarterback off the board, then what what would the
Speaker 1: Cardinals potentially have to get in order to give up
Speaker 1: the opportunity to take Marvin Harrison Junior? That I think,
Speaker 1: because I think becomes the fascinating question here. All Right,
Speaker 1: we've gone overtime today. But there is one other thing
Speaker 1: we need to touch on, because you and I have
Speaker 1: talked about this that the construction as much as field,
Speaker 1: as much as there are these off season mile posts
Speaker 1: like the Combine and the owner's meetings and everything, it
Speaker 1: always feels to me like the draft is when you
Speaker 1: really turn the page to the next season. So that
Speaker 1: is here. The next season, twenty twenty four truly is
Speaker 1: upon us in the NFL, and you and I are
Speaker 1: both a little sad because we're going to be here
Speaker 1: in Green Bay at twelve sixty five Lombardy without one
Speaker 1: of our favorite people in this building that we've gotten
Speaker 1: to know over the years, because long time equipment manager
Speaker 1: Red Battie has announced his retirement. He stopped in and
Speaker 1: visited us in our makeshift office down here in the
Speaker 1: bottles of lambeau Field last week to sort of say
Speaker 1: final goodbye. It won't be a final goodbye, We're going
Speaker 1: to see you and all that, but Red Baddy isn't
Speaker 1: going to be here on a daily basis anymore, and
Speaker 1: that I think makes us all sad. But congratulations to Red.
Speaker 1: I tip my hat to that man. He is. He
Speaker 1: is as interesting, as genuine, as enjoyable a human being
Speaker 1: as I've ever been around, and we're sad to see
Speaker 1: him go.
Speaker 2: Nobody that has worked in this building, I would say,
Speaker 2: since the renovation earlier than that personifies the ideals of
Speaker 2: the Green Bay Packers more than Gordon Red Baddie, And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this, Michael, it just so happens that
Speaker 2: on Thursday, it's my eight year anniversary with the Green
Speaker 2: Bay Packers.
Speaker 3: You've had to deal with me for that long.
Speaker 2: I think every single one of those gray hairs up
Speaker 2: there has been a byproduct of you editing my content.
Speaker 2: But nobody made me feel more welcome in this building
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen read t Bone. Tom Bakin is just
Speaker 2: a little hair behind him. But that equipment staff, they
Speaker 2: are salt of the earth people. There's a reason why
Speaker 2: I've said over and over again that equipment story, the
Speaker 2: travel essay story that I did last year was one
Speaker 2: of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had as a writer,
Speaker 2: because I was documenting people that I legitimately consider friends
Speaker 2: and the hard work that they put in to keep
Speaker 2: this thing going. There's so much that happens behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: happens on a sideline that you do not see as
Speaker 2: packer fans. Red is the guy that made a lot
Speaker 2: of that stuff happen, and he mentioned to us sixty
Speaker 2: five and fifty that's what he was looking at. Sixty
Speaker 2: five years fifty years in equipment, and then he decided
Speaker 2: to hang it up. So he's going to have a
Speaker 2: well deserved and well earned retirement. But there are so
Speaker 2: many stories, so many memories that he leaves me with.
Speaker 2: And I only had the eight years working with him
Speaker 2: as a coworker. I can only imagine what other people's
Speaker 2: stories are like. But to read, I say thank you,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate everything he did to make me feel
Speaker 2: like I was a legitimate part of this thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I enjoyed. I've been here for eighteen seasons now
Speaker 1: going into my nineteenth, and I enjoyed every single one
Speaker 1: of them. With Red, anytime you walk past him in
Speaker 1: the hallway, you stop and you listen to a Red
Speaker 1: Batty story because maybe it's only ten seconds long, but
Speaker 1: it's going to put a smile on your face for
Speaker 1: the rest of the day because that guy, he's got
Speaker 1: stories and he knows how to tell him.
Speaker 3: And if I hope he never loses that, no, he will.
Speaker 1: In his human touch with other people.
Speaker 2: Ten seconds usually more like ten minutes. But if it's
Speaker 2: ten seconds, still equally as good.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well with that, we will call it a rap.
Speaker 1: On this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow
Speaker 1: all of our coverage of the team and all of
Speaker 1: our coverage through the three days coming up here of
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. We will have the bulletin stories when
Speaker 1: the picks are made, we will have profile stories digging
Speaker 1: into the picks even further. We will have the larger analysis.
Speaker 1: We'll have instant reaction videos, three Things videos. There'll be
Speaker 1: photo gallery highlight videos of the players the Packers select.
Speaker 1: Everything is going to be out there for you on
Speaker 1: packers dot com. Be sure not to miss it. For Wes,
Speaker 1: I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in. Everybody. We
Speaker 1: will see you next time.