WEBVTT - Cascadia Forest Defense 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:08.600 Robert doing the grunge so we can start the badcast. Um, 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:10.440 I think we should just start the podcast with you 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.440 asking Robert, do you want to grunt? So we can 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.840 start the podcast. Um that that seems avant garde. I 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:18.479 don't know what I'm on guard means, but this is 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.279 it could happen here, a podcast about how things are 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.960 falling apart and how maybe maybe they don't always need 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:25.919 to be falling apart, maybe we could do better. Uh. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.720 Speaking of doing better, you know one thing that sometimes 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.120 helps us do better getting getting in the face of 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.040 people fucking shut up and being like, hey, that's not 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.400 that's not cool. Don't be doing that, Garrison, that's your leading. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:45.040 Take it from here. Yeah, Hi, so we I've been 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.879 I've been trying to keep better a better job of 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:53.960 like following ecological defense movements happening both in the States 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:55.880 and in other countries. I know there was there was 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.160 a big one up in Canada recently. There was a 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.680 huge one in Germany too, just the other day. Yeah, 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:04.960 I know the one, the one in Canada. There's a 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.800 uh the uh, I forget, I forget what the actual 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.480 indigenous group is called. Um, maybe maybe someone else So 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:21.600 the the um house no sauti um yeah, the people 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:26.280 who who who took back their land and blocked the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.920 road off and now the to and the wet suit end. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.000 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. Um there we go, yeah, 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.920 basically taking their land back, blocking off the road. And 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.640 now our samep is getting called in and we'll see 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.640 how that develops. And in Guatemala there's protests against Canadian 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.520 mining um in Maya indigenous community that have have have 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.600 gotten pretty heavily militarized at this point. There's fun, there's 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.040 a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. Lot 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.160 of stuff on the psychological defense side of things, UM 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.600 include including in you know, the Pacific northwest here with 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.240 all of with all of the forests and and as 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.960 such in this area and part of this kind of 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.720 exploration into into ecological defense, I wanted to talk with 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.160 some people who are a little a little bit more 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.360 well versed uh in this type of thing than I am. 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.280 So I've there's the two people have agreed to talk 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.600 with us, um salmon cat, both people who work who 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.079 work on the kind of thing from like an activism standpoint, U, yeah, 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:38.360 say hi, hello, hey y'all. So very very thankful that 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.040 they are going to be talking with us today, So 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.240 I thought we could we could probably just start by 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:48.000 kind of discussing what forest defense is and how it 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.639 kind of has a history specifically in this area, but 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.760 but kind of more broadly, Like if if people listened 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.160 to the Earth First episodes, you know, that kind of 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.359 that covered like anti pipeline stuff, but we didn't really 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.880 get much into like forest if ends and you know, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.720 like the traditional like tree sits and that kind of thing. Um. So, 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.800 so yeah, what's what's up with defending the forest? What's 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.560 what's what's going on with that? Um? Yeah, thanks for 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:16.160 that great intro. UM. I mean, forest defense is I 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.919 think probably the most characteristic um type of direct action 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.320 in this bioregion. And here we're talking from Cascadia right now. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.720 I actually moved out here from the East Coast ten 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.600 years ago specifically to get involved with forest defense because 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.000 this place has an incredibly rich history UM of people 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.520 basically just throwing down, risking life and limb to stop 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.160 Jane Saws from taking down some of the oldest and 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.880 most special forests out here. UM. And so I'd say, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.360 you know, for forest defense, direct action is in a 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.160 lot of ways rooted right here, UM, in this bioregion. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.440 And obviously, UM, like all kinds of movements, things have 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.560 changed over the course of time. UM back in the eighties. UM, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.640 when in seventies, when forest defense was really really kicking 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.960 up and stopping all growth logging specifically out here, when 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.040 it was kind of like rampant old growth, UM, clear cutting. Um, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.720 it really took the shape of trying to focusing on ecology, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.200 focusing on the integrity of these ecosystems, and basically like 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.200 doing everything possible to stop the chainsaws. And UM. Now 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.239 obviously a lot has changed. We have the Northwest Forest 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.159 Plan and some policies which are doing better to kind 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.120 of like protect old places and old forests. But at 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.720 the same time, the same ship is happening. Um. You know, 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.520 the timber industry is great at using euphemisms to kind 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.560 of cover up it's clear cutting anyways, and finding policy 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:42.040 loopholes to target some incredible places. And now I think, UM, 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.240 where we're at with like the direct action movement is 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.279 we're in the context of climate change, so we're not 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.880 just defending forests for the stake of these like incredible 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.280 ecological strongholds, but we're also defending them because we recognize 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.000 that forest defense is climate defense. This is a like 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.320 environmental justice issue, it's a human issue, it's a community issue. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.680 And so now direct action, I think is um, you know, 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.360 happening not just the name of our forests, but in 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.960 the name of our communities in our future. UM. That 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.480 it's just as rich um now as it has ever been, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.599 and especially right now and especially since which I know 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.240 we'll get into. People have been throwing down all over 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.960 this fire region to protect what's left of our forests. Yeah, 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:24.640 and I think it's it's good to get into kind 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.200 of why how the fires have impacted this because one 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.200 of the shady things that has been done is we 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.440 had I think most people in the country are where 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:37.160 Oregon had unprecedented wildfires this year, and we had unprecedented 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:42.800 wildfires last year, and we're going to have unprecedented wildfires 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.280 every year for a while. UM. And whenever these fires 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.039 run through, they don't like destroy every tree in their wake, 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.560 but they char them. And logging companies then come in 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.479 under the guise of like, well, we have to make 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.719 this area safe so that like the fires don't burn 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.320 here next year, so we've got to cut down all 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.560 of these trees uh um and and clear cut this 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.280 part of area of public forests. So like, as you're 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.440 driving around in forests that you used to be able 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.440 to do stuff, and you'll find areas that are just 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.920 like blocked off because mining companies are coming or logging 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:14.880 companies are coming through and clear cutting all of these 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.160 trees that could very easily recover from the fire um 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:20.960 or that weren't even burned by it. But we're just 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:22.839 like in this area that they said, Okay, well we 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.880 have to clear this out in order to make it safe. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.920 And it's kind of this way to like back door 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.719 and the guise of fire protection like expand logging. Yeah, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.000 and just to add to that to the logging companies 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.200 love to say that the reasons we have increased wildfires 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.560 because there's an overgrowth in the forest because of the 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.640 Northwest Forest plant, because there's more protections for the forest. 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.360 Fires are happening worse because we're not getting there bogging 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.920 the forest and removing all the fuel. M hm. So 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.000 you have like this two part thing that like Kat 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.599 just mentioned, where like on the one hand, companies are like, 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.880 we need to log more to prevent wildfire, which is bullshit, 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.120 and we can talk about why. On the other hand, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.320 after fire has burned through an area, they're like, we 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.159 need to log because we need to help the forest 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.800 recover ecologically. Also, we need to salvage all of the 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.400 timber before it rots and goes bad, and like all 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.080 of these reasons and so basically it's just like fire 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.520 has become the excuse to just like log preemptively and 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.920 log after the fact. And yeah, it's a total total 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.880 ship show. Yeah, I mean the think this this kind 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.560 of falls into capitalists trying to use climate change is 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.800 just another way to find things to extract and things 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:35.960 to grow on. Right, it's they're they're going to try 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.280 to find their own way to sneak in when all 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.040 of this you know, ecological disaster is happening to you know, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.240 sell you whatever green safe product is going to help 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.920 against the collapse, or you know, package things in a 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.720 way that makes it seem like it's solving this you 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.000 know problem, but it's actually it's part of it's part 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:57.920 of the satan thing from the yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, right, 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.920 it's it's you see that's in every single industry and 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.720 it's always it's it's going to be like this because 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.600 this is the only way that capitalism knows how to 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.600 address this issue is by just turning it into another 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.920 turning it into another thing to consume and another thing 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.440 to sell in package. Pretty pretty grib Yeah. And there's 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.360 I mean, there's cascading effects too, because they cut down 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.320 these trees under the guise of making it safe for 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.280 the next fire season, but which also makes a big 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.200 chunk of land a lot more vulnerable to like mud 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.720 slides and the torrential raining that we're having right now. Um, 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.760 and it's also going to get more common, because that's 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.079 how fucking climate change works. It's it's just like the 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:42.040 comprehensive fury comprehensive. And let us be clear too that 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.480 logging doesn't actually work to prevent wildfire, you know, even 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.360 you know, they say that it does, But the kind 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.800 of logging that they do in the name of wildfire 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.600 prevention just looks like clear cuts. And we have a 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.280 pretty robust body of science now showing that those kinds 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.000 of activities actually make fire hazard more severe for local communities. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.280 So that's like one of the things they're doing, and 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.600 we've been calling it just gaslighting, Like they're gaslighting all 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.000 of us by saying, you know, there's nothing to see here, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.720 there's nothing to see here. We're taking care of you all. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.040 You know, we're barely logging at all. And then we've 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.160 got community members on the ground, um, despite the closure 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.200 orders who are like, actually, there's a lot to see here, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.120 and you all are like completely devastating the landscape and 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:30.720 further harming our communities. Um. So yeah, it's total gaslighting. Yeah, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.560 an Oregon has both in terms of like watching fires 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.080 and watching logging, some like rules that are not in 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.480 place in other areas, especially for like even for for 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.160 press and the like. Like it's it's actually hard to 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.520 get in to look at this stuff, um without you know, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:52.080 breaking some sort of law technically, which is not at 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.040 all shady. Um yeah, yeah, I feel like that's another 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.200 important thing. And maybe cat can jump onto is just 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.280 um basically, I mean, I think what people aren't understanding 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.800 is that after the fires, the these federal forest managers 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:14.040 closed gates and essentially are converting public land into private 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.320 land by you know, using the threat of violence to 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.160 kick people out if they go onto their public land. 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.959 And since and they say until at least, the only 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.360 folks allowed behind these gates are cops and loggers. And 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.360 so this is like literally, um, you know, the enclosure 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.280 of our public lands and like the privatization of our 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.560 public lands so that cops and loggers can do whatever 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.800 the hell they want. Yep. And it's the kind of 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.800 thing I mean, it's the kind of thing that people 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.640 if you're if you're if the if the Bundy's and 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.160 that group actually meant the stuff they were saying, like 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.880 the rhetoric they were putting out, it's the kind of 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:53.960 thing they would be piste off about. Two Because you're right, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.000 it is the enclosure of public land by the government 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.760 um and corporation without any kind of consent from the 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.800 people who are supposed to be the collective owners of 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.600 that land. It's it's a again, something that a lot 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.640 of people should be angry about, who aren't angry about 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.280 because there's been this huge propaganda campaign in the Northwest 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.320 about timber unity and the like and like supporting the 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:23.720 timber industry um by destroying like the single greatest gift 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.719 this entire part of the world has. Uh, It's it's 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.520 pretty frustrating, yea. Anyway, I have to we have to 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.480 actually have a quick break so I can go watch 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.719 my soccer game at the Timber Stadium. Uh, completely unrelated. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.240 So I'm going to drive out to Wheeler, Oregon myself. 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.560 But we all have different things to do during the break, um, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.360 but also in the break, I guess we can probably 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.880 do an ad break here, because why not? All right, Yeah, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:12:03.800 everybody loves ads, and we're backed still talking about force defense. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.400 I wanted there's something that people should probably know before 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.079 we go further about the way that that Oregon works. 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.440 So for a while, Oregon is a place where you 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.960 can't get elected, um in a lot of parts of 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.600 a lot of populated parts of Oregon if you're a Republican. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.840 So the Republicans just plain ice um and and pretend 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.680 and like throw out some some social justice a language 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.800 while while still doing all of the extract of stuff 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.120 they were going to do anyway. And that's the story 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.120 with like Ted Wheeler, um in his family. So Ted 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.319 Ted Wheeler, the mayor of Portland, comes from Timber money. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.760 His father was a major Republican donor. Not that the 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.480 Democrats don't have a lot of extractive history behind them, 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.480 but like it's it's very obvious what's happening with the 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.480 Wheelers where um, they were huge Republican donors and huge 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.720 backers of the right, and then Oregon had this kind 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.840 of switch politically, um, and so Ted Wheeler just started 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.280 throwing out nice social justicey language. But the whole you know, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.439 he's he's I'm sure going to make a run for 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.360 governor at some point in the near future. And you've 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:13.360 got this like this dressed up very extractive logging industry 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.240 and politicians that always find a way to kind of 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.040 make it seem palatable to the liberal majority. Um. And 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.640 they've gotten pretty good at that because it doesn't I 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.679 don't know. I think maybe we're coming to the end 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.880 of this period, but like I haven't, I haven't seen 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.360 up until this last year a lot of widespread kind 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.400 of outrage about the clear cutting UM. And they also 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.200 hide it pretty well. Like if you're driving through these 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.720 beautiful public forests in Oregon, the areas that are right 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.400 along the road will generally be pristine and you'll see 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.760 old growth and everything. But sometimes you can see, as 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.760 you like turn a corner or something that like, oh, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.880 that old growth only goes back a couple of a 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.440 couple of dozen yards and then it's a clear cut 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.079 UM and they'll they'll they'll hide it so that it's 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.400 it's not as obvious because they know what upset people. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:06.280 So there's this, there's this kind of surprisingly, um surprisingly 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.960 thorough campaign to do as much of this as possible 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:15.560 without upsetting people, um, which which means there's a potential 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.040 to upset people, which means there's a potential to actually 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.080 stop this if enough people get upset. But it's you know, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.360 you're you're you're going against folks who have thought a 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.280 lot about how to do this in a way that 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:30.000 isn't going to upset the apple cart. So how do 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.680 you upset the apple cart? I guess that is what 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:38.240 I'm asking. Well, I think one way that we upset 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.880 the apple cart is by bringing people out to these places. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.520 And you know, in the action that happened on Tuesday 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.320 that looked like disrupting and disobeying a federal closure order 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.520 in order to bring people out to these places, um, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.600 you know, basically metaphorically walking behind what you were describing 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.680 the beauty strip along the highway and seeing what's behind it. Um. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.520 And you know, as we were saying earlier, unfortunately because 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.240 of all these federal closure orders after the fire, that 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:09.320 looks like risking um, you know, repercussion, state repression, arrest 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.920 even um, in order to just lay eyes on it. 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.280 But that is the way that we chipped the apple cart. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.480 We get people to see these places so that it 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.160 cuts through the gas lighting that the industry is doing 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.320 and people can literally viscerally feel and see the damage. Um. 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.880 And there's no way to convince them that that's okay 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.200 once they see it. And how do you do go 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.080 about like finding people to bring into this, convincing people 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.440 to come Like, what does kind of that effort look like? 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:38.720 You want to answer this one cat, You did a 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.400 ton of recruitment, Yeah, totally. UM. I think a big 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.240 part of it is getting them while they're young. UM. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.800 I think that like young people right now are already 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.880 pretty radicalized, um, compared to ten years or so, probably 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.160 because of I think George Floyd and Black Lives Matter 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.160 and social the use of social media and those movements. UM. 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.720 So I am a college student and we're seeing like 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.960 so many people coming in and ready to throw down, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.760 like they just cannot wait to get involved, and we'll 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.280 kind of just show up to anything. UM. So I 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.440 think that that's like a major tactic for sure. UM. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.640 And then also making sure that when you have like 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.280 a an action that you're recruiting people for that it's 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.680 I'm very easy to plug in. It's like very accessible, 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.520 um and kind of just like having it organized very 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.120 well so it's not daunting to come in. Do you 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.200 want to add to that, sam, Well, just to like 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.040 share a little more about like how we did that 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.560 with this particular action that happened on Tuesday. Um. Basically, 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:42.640 you know, we it was a Tuesday, brainy, freezing middle 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.160 of the forest planning this action, did not think and 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.760 behind a federal closure order, so everyone on site risking 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.360 arrest um and planning this action, it felt like we 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.920 would be lucky as ship if we got ten people 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.960 out there. UM. But I will say, um, it was 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.520 easy as ship to get fifty people out there. And 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.840 that's because people care. UM. And you know, I think 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.119 we did. In terms of organizing strategy, we used the 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.119 affinity group model, and so we had a core you know, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.200 there was a core group of organizers, and those organizers 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.440 recruited through affinity groups and their affinity groups and UM 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.160 that helped to keep kind of information secure and um, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.639 you know, everything tightly organized. But UM, people want people 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.280 were really desiring to get together and do something, especially 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.000 in the past couple of years of COVID, people are 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.800 just like eager to do something. UM. And on top 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.280 of that, you know, we we promised that this isn't 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.840 just an opportunity to potentially get arrested, but this is 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.560 an educational opportunity and a movement building opportunities. So while 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.199 the road was blocked with a slash pile and a 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:51.240 fire truck, there were workshops going on. There were hikes 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.080 going on in the forest that's supposed to be cut. UM. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.840 There was discussions about know your rights trainings and affinity groups. 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.240 We had um a band um playing on top of 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.960 a fire truck, and there was a dance party and basically, 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.159 you know, we're like building community and solidarity UM in 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.760 a positive way while sucking shut up. I think that's 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:18.040 the key. And I mean, where do you uh, how 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.560 do how do you have like what is the let 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.000 me think of a way to phrase this. What is 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.600 kind of the next step here because they haven't started 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.359 logging this area yet, but they're kind of doing like 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.520 the pre prep work. Um, what do you what do 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.639 you think actually can be done to to halt it? 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.000 Like is it? Is it a problem? Like because it 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:41.680 seems to me that it's there's got to be like 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.359 a mix of tactics there to actually get them to stop. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.120 And you're dealing with a number of different um threats, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.080 including not just at the state level, but these federal 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.840 closure orders. Like what is I don't know what what 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.280 does the path forward look like to you? Yeah, So 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.879 there's a preliminary injunction being forth by some nonprofits and 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.160 so this is a really good example of different tactics 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.119 coming in and so um, the preliminary injunction is basically 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.280 to state that what they're doing before services doing is illegal. Um. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.800 But before that that can be passed, they can come 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.199 in at any point and log the area. And so 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.960 that's where direct action comes in to slow them down 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.159 and halp them as much as possible until the courts 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.200 can process that injunction. And that feels really huge to 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.879 Like what Kat just said is like where is the 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.400 place of direct action in forest defense? This is like 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.520 the golden moment for direct action while there's like an 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.159 open legal case that we're waiting on a judge to settle, 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.600 and the timber industry is like coming in ready to 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.880 moot out the case by logging before it can even 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.360 be decided. And like to just add a little bit 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.320 more backstory to on. Like another reason why people are 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.320 so pissed about this, um is that you know, this 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:57.440 watershed has been I think like beloved and also embattled 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:02.159 since the eighties. Like the infamous Eastern Massacre logging event 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.480 happened in the same watershed. Where could you explain, Yeah, yeah, no, 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:14.600 totally um item. A timber company was planning to clear 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.720 cut log old growth forest out there and started moving 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.840 on it on Easter um in the snow, and a 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.880 bunch of bad US direct action activists set up a 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:29.200 five tiered blockade on a logging road to hold off 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.000 the logging and successfully did for um days and days 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.160 until a bunch of them I think over a dozen 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.920 folks got arrested, thrown in jail, and the forest was 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.400 clear cut. Um. So hence you know the Eastern massacre 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.159 name um. But a ton of folks who you know 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.560 still work in forest defense in the spy A region. 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.200 We're there and remember that story, and we're with us 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.760 UM when we were out there this week telling that story. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.080 And you know since then, between and now, people have 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.399 been showing up again and again and again in this 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.640 watershed as it is so special to try and fight 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.480 off logging. And myself and Cat have been a part 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.200 of efforts over the past handful of years to um 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.439 fight off a number of logging projects out there. We 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.639 were successful in doing that. We actually like snacked the 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.080 Forest Services grubby hands off of a bunch of oil 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.800 growth because our scrappy friends spent days exploring this watershed 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:25.960 and documenting, doing like site specific science citizen science documentation 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:27.800 and giving it to the Forest Service. And we fought 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.720 them and one and protected a bunch of the forest. 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.520 And then the fires came through and they closed the 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.159 gates and they secretly changed all of these contracts to 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.000 include clear cut logging. And so that is why there 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.560 is an open lawsuit because we believe it's illegal what 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:46.120 they're doing. It's sketchy and illegal, yeah, but it does 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.600 it does illustrate like kind of the depth of the 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.000 fight necessary, not just in forest defense but at all 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.359 efforts of kind of resisting the extract of industries that 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.280 are driving a lot of climate change. It's it's not enough. 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.080 It's never enough to win the first victory. They're going 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.000 to find some way to to to swoop around to 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.840 the flanks and try to take it away from you 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.080 like they're doing right now. Um, which is exhausting. Um, 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:15.000