Speaker 1: Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jordan Runtug. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Our latest chapter chronicles the Thin White Duke, David Bowie's
Speaker 1: most infamous and unsettling character. He's been described as a
Speaker 1: dapper yet deadly European aristocrat, an icy, amoral zombie, or
Speaker 1: an emotionless ari and ubermas, depending on who you ask.
Speaker 1: David himself would describe him as quote a nasty character indeed,
Speaker 1: which is pretty much all you need to know. The
Speaker 1: Duke makes his grand entrance on the title track to
Speaker 1: Bowie's landmark ninety six album Station to Station and today
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to talk to a guy who's responsible for
Speaker 1: much of the searing guitar work, Mr Earl Slick. Now,
Speaker 1: in case you didn't know, Earl is a bona fide
Speaker 1: rock legend, and Bowie's just a part of his remarkable resume.
Speaker 1: That's him playing on John Lennon and Yoko Owns Double Fantasy,
Speaker 1: and he's also played with David Coverdale, Robert Smith, Ian Hunter,
Speaker 1: and so many more, not to mention his own solo
Speaker 1: work until the Pandemic. He was about to mount a
Speaker 1: tour with Sex Pistols founding bassist Glenn Matlock. He was
Speaker 1: just twenty one when he got the gig to play
Speaker 1: with Bowie on Diamond Dugs Tour, filling the spot recently
Speaker 1: vacated by Mick Ronson. He went on to become one
Speaker 1: of Bowie's go to guitarists and most frequent collaborators, playing
Speaker 1: on Young Americans Station to Station, Heathen Reality and also
Speaker 1: the Secret Sessions for the Next Day in He's also
Speaker 1: performed with them on stage for an untold number of
Speaker 1: gigs spanning thirty years. I was so happy to talk
Speaker 1: with him about Bowie and also another mutual favorite, the Beatles,
Speaker 1: and also lots and lots of guitars. Andy gearheads out
Speaker 1: there need to check out his line of guitars on
Speaker 1: guitar Fetish dot com. I swear this is not a
Speaker 1: paid endorsement, but they're so damn cool. You may not
Speaker 1: be able to sound like Earl Slick, but at least
Speaker 1: you can kind of look like him. Oh yeah, while
Speaker 1: we're on the subject, I have a confession to make.
Speaker 1: In addition to being a guitar god, Earl Slick is
Speaker 1: a pretty snazzy dresser. I didn't want to feel under dressed,
Speaker 1: so I wore a leather jacket for our zoom call,
Speaker 1: and I realized after the fact that it crinkled throughout.
Speaker 1: Rookie mistake. Apologies in advance. Let that be a lesson
Speaker 1: to any aspiring journalists out there. Don't try to be
Speaker 1: cool or at very least condition your leather jacket. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy. I guess I guess should say
Speaker 1: before diving into all the Bowie stuff, I guess the
Speaker 1: best place to begin is a one day in particular,
Speaker 1: and I'll say February nine, a very special day for
Speaker 1: for music lovers everywhere. It sounds like that's where it
Speaker 1: all started for you my generation and players probably, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean for me definitely so a weird thing because
Speaker 1: we really weren't terribly aware of the Beatles up to
Speaker 1: that point. You know, I was what twelve or thirteen
Speaker 1: years old something like that, you know, um, and I
Speaker 1: really hadn't gotten into I wasn't a music fan per
Speaker 1: se yet, you know. But after seeing that show that night,
Speaker 1: it was weird, man. I mean, it's hard to describe it.
Speaker 1: I mean you you see it, you know, like way
Speaker 1: second hand or you know, but if you were there,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like something you've never seen before,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and it just and
Speaker 1: the and the weird thing about it was, is it
Speaker 1: hit everybody at the same time, the same way, like overnight,
Speaker 1: it happened. Literally, what was it? Was it just the
Speaker 1: the the exuberance, was it the sound? Was it all
Speaker 1: the above? Well? What was it that really spoke to
Speaker 1: you about? Just seeing them? You know, trying to put
Speaker 1: myself back in my head back then what we saw
Speaker 1: it hit a nerve, really hit a nerve. And the
Speaker 1: next day when we up to school, that's all anybody
Speaker 1: was talking about. And you know, we all. I mean
Speaker 1: at the time, my hair was very short. I remember
Speaker 1: before I went to school, I got a comment I'm
Speaker 1: trying to brush down a little bit, you know, I
Speaker 1: had a really short air, and so did everybody else.
Speaker 1: And and then within days of us seeing that, we
Speaker 1: were all putting to nobody could play anything, but we
Speaker 1: were putting bands together. Okay, you'll be the bass player,
Speaker 1: you'll be the guitar player. This guy, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, we were we it was instantaneous. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then what also appam was is because that the way
Speaker 1: that they presented the band, especially on the TV show,
Speaker 1: you already had picked your favorite beatle, you know, that
Speaker 1: was a big thing. You're Paul Guy, or you are
Speaker 1: John Guy, You're Wringled Guy. Are you a George guy?
Speaker 1: You know that that? And um, yeah, you know, you
Speaker 1: know anything. It was too is that grown up and
Speaker 1: being in grade school in the fifties and into the
Speaker 1: early sixties. Uh, it wasn't like there was anything of hours,
Speaker 1: you know, other than you know, kids playing Little League
Speaker 1: and ship like that. There wasn't anything that was really ours,
Speaker 1: you know, And and um, it was also very very
Speaker 1: straight laced period of time. So even as much, if
Speaker 1: not more than the music, it was the clothes they
Speaker 1: were wearing, the haircut they had, the screaming, the whole thing,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was like, holy shit, who were
Speaker 1: some of your when you first picked up a guitar
Speaker 1: instead of playing who are some of your guitar guiding lights?
Speaker 1: The bow Didley's and the Chuck Berreys and the Likning Hopkins.
Speaker 1: Who who really, uh were the people that you really
Speaker 1: wanted to emulate when you're first starting when I first started, Um,
Speaker 1: because the Stones were not very far, you know, it
Speaker 1: was it was pretty be a few months and then
Speaker 1: the Stones hit. Uh with the Beatles, it got me
Speaker 1: inspired to pick up a guitar. But the Stones is
Speaker 1: what really did it. I mean, it started off with
Speaker 1: you know, Brian Jones, Keith Richards, and then in short
Speaker 1: order I found myself gravitating right to Chuck Berry Bo Diddley. Uh,
Speaker 1: oh you know it went. I went there. That's where
Speaker 1: I net. But obviously think about it, I'm listening to
Speaker 1: the Stones, oh, the yard Birds to which came after that,
Speaker 1: the Ones I gravitated towards because the Beatles got my attention.
Speaker 1: But what really sort of drove it home or the
Speaker 1: British blues based bands, And because of them, I started
Speaker 1: to explore where they got it from. It was my
Speaker 1: love from the blues came from that. So it's late sixties,
Speaker 1: early seventies and your plan ends out on Staten Island,
Speaker 1: bow Jack, And how did you go from playing Staten
Speaker 1: Island to playing with Bowie? Can you take me through
Speaker 1: that that journey? Uh? You know when we started off
Speaker 1: playing on Staten Island, Um, we did what all kids
Speaker 1: then did anyway. You know, you you started off putting
Speaker 1: together these little bands, and you'd be playing at people's
Speaker 1: like parties in the basement, and then you start up
Speaker 1: playing high school dances, and then you know, you started
Speaker 1: uh thinking about playing in the bars, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: and it just progressed, and then at one point we
Speaker 1: realized that there was life outside of Staten Island. So
Speaker 1: we started getting gigs in in the city, in the village,
Speaker 1: and I just started meeting people, you know, and um,
Speaker 1: one of the guys that was part of our little
Speaker 1: crew on Staten Island was a guy named Hank de
Speaker 1: Vito and he played um pedal Steel, which which was
Speaker 1: kind of odd, but he was he was in a
Speaker 1: different crowd of people, uh too. And and he was
Speaker 1: actually playing with Michael Caman, the you know, the big
Speaker 1: film dude before he was a big film dude. And
Speaker 1: I met Michael threw him, and uh, I I got
Speaker 1: I got the gig with Bowie because I took a
Speaker 1: road to gig with somebody else. That's how I got
Speaker 1: the gig, because my instincts told me. And also I
Speaker 1: was getting bored with the whole Staten Island thing. I'm
Speaker 1: going man. Somehow I put together that, you know, if
Speaker 1: we're just gonna keep doing cover songs and I don't
Speaker 1: even like and playing in these bars, uh, we're gonna
Speaker 1: get stuck here. I'm gonna get stuck here. So I
Speaker 1: started hanging out with with Hank more often, and then
Speaker 1: I met Michael threw him, and then Michael took a
Speaker 1: liking to me, so he would use me on sessions
Speaker 1: here and there, you know, when I was really young
Speaker 1: and UM. At one point I asked Hank because because
Speaker 1: they were doing UM, Mike had a band called the
Speaker 1: rock and Roll New York Rock and Roll Ensemble, right
Speaker 1: and and they had directed contract at one point. They
Speaker 1: were broken up by now, but but Michael was doing
Speaker 1: solo gigs. But these were real gigs, like you know,
Speaker 1: you flew on the airplane to get there, and you
Speaker 1: stayed in the hotel, you know. And he had part
Speaker 1: of Paul Butterfield's rhythm section was in the band. Uh
Speaker 1: and UM. David Sanbor was a sax player, So I
Speaker 1: took the ROADI gig on and UM. At sound checks,
Speaker 1: I always worked my guitar with me, and at the
Speaker 1: sound checks, I started jamming with the band and and
Speaker 1: really hit it off jam and with Sandborn, and at
Speaker 1: one point Sandborn suggested to Michael that I should be,
Speaker 1: you know, playing in the band. So Michael offered it
Speaker 1: to me, and so me and Michael became very close
Speaker 1: and we would do that and some other projects. So
Speaker 1: when the Bowie when he had met Bowie and seventy four, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's right when McK ronson had quit and David was
Speaker 1: looking for a guitar player and he mentioned it to Michael,
Speaker 1: and Michael threw my name in the hat. So that's
Speaker 1: how I got the gig. And the audition, it sounds
Speaker 1: like the audition it was pretty unusual. It almost sounds
Speaker 1: like something out of like James Bond meeting Blowfeld or something.
Speaker 1: You go to the studio and it was just like
Speaker 1: an empty studio, right yeah. Yeah. Uh. I've never done
Speaker 1: an audition before, so I didn't really know what to expect.
Speaker 1: But what what I what I thought was that I'd
Speaker 1: show up and it'd be a band in there, and
Speaker 1: David Bowie would be in there, and it might be
Speaker 1: other people and I would get my chance to play.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought. But that wasn't what happened. I
Speaker 1: got to r C A Studios, recording studios in New
Speaker 1: York City, and um, when I got there, David's personal
Speaker 1: assistant met me, and um, I didn't I didn't see
Speaker 1: anybody but her and and she shuffled me into the
Speaker 1: main recording room and there was an amp there and
Speaker 1: some headphones because oh, just put the headphones on. So
Speaker 1: I put the headphones on, and uh, I get instructions
Speaker 1: from this disembodied voice, which which was which was Tony Visconti.
Speaker 1: They were mixing Diamond Dogs. So I put the headphones
Speaker 1: on and he said, We're just gonna play some tracks.
Speaker 1: Just play along. I didn't know what these tracks were.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything. So that's what I did for
Speaker 1: a little while. Twenty minutes maybe no key, no anything,
Speaker 1: just play, just just play nothing. Yeah, wow, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I don't know. Twenty minutes later, half our waiter, Uh,
Speaker 1: they go, wait a minute, and then Bowie walks in
Speaker 1: the room, said Hi, We sat down, he grabbed the guitar.
Speaker 1: We just noodled around and shot the ship for a
Speaker 1: little while. And then I was done. And you know,
Speaker 1: they said, uh said, we'll give you a call in
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks. Because we're auditioning more guys.
Speaker 1: I said, okay, whatever. Um. As it turns out, they
Speaker 1: did call me the next day, so I didn't have
Speaker 1: to wait. You know, they liked your right away. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well that must have been a strange tour to start on,
Speaker 1: just because I mean, you know, do you think the
Speaker 1: Diamond Dogs tore you think of the choreography, the staging,
Speaker 1: the just everything being almost like a Broadway production? How
Speaker 1: was that for you? Did you feel confined? Was it
Speaker 1: almost like, wait, this isn't the rock show, this is
Speaker 1: like a Broadwick style thing? Or was that was that fun?
Speaker 1: We're both both, Um, the fun part was just the
Speaker 1: fact of the kind of guys I was working with,
Speaker 1: you know, the band, you know, because Sanborn was brought
Speaker 1: into that man, Mike Garson was already in the band.
Speaker 1: Uh oh, Tony Newman and Herbie Flowers were a rhythm section,
Speaker 1: you know, So these were guys, These were the top dudes.
Speaker 1: But as far as the gig, when it was fucking weird,
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't. I mean, first of all, rock bands
Speaker 1: didn't do those kind of shows back then. That was
Speaker 1: something kind of new. There was no Pink Floyd Wall,
Speaker 1: nothing like that so um wrapping my head around being
Speaker 1: part of that. It felt like, first of all, uh,
Speaker 1: David had well you know what the Diamond Dogs tour was,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what the show was. So there
Speaker 1: was a set, they were costumes, it was all this stuff,
Speaker 1: and like right before rehearsals, I find myself if David
Speaker 1: Sweet in the city, where the where the address? And
Speaker 1: getting all my hair cut off. I'm trying on these
Speaker 1: clothes that they had made, and it was all like
Speaker 1: I'm going, Wow, I finally got in this really famous
Speaker 1: big rock band and the first thing it does make
Speaker 1: me cut my hair and yours they did all backwards. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was an interview you gave where somebody asked you,
Speaker 1: you know, what was your favorite on stage moment, and
Speaker 1: you just said, any show with Bowie, just pick a gig.
Speaker 1: What was it about being on stage with with with
Speaker 1: with Bowie? I guess through the years that that was
Speaker 1: so special. What was it like to read him on
Speaker 1: stage and just that interplay, Like, you know, coming from
Speaker 1: where I was before I got to get with Bowie,
Speaker 1: I had some miles on me because you know, I've
Speaker 1: been playing live for a while before I got that gig.
Speaker 1: So I've done everything from a lot of bars too.
Speaker 1: With Caman, you know, we were doing maybe two thousand seaters,
Speaker 1: so I add a little bit of that, but not
Speaker 1: to the extent of that, I mean to be honest
Speaker 1: with you. When I got in the Diamond Dogs tour, Uh,
Speaker 1: the atmosphere around Bowie what was it was definitely in
Speaker 1: the realm of the Beatlemania thing because that's when because
Speaker 1: he'd already finished Ziggy, right, the Ziggy thing had come
Speaker 1: and gone, and he was huge. That's when David was
Speaker 1: he really that was when he really broke through. So
Speaker 1: all of that was there and the size of the crowd,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty thousand seats, you know, and this huge
Speaker 1: organization of Rhodies and staff and the band and and
Speaker 1: it was like wow, you know. So the excitement level
Speaker 1: was there twenty four hours a day, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know he um being the dynamic performer there that
Speaker 1: he was um, you know that that energy really just
Speaker 1: permeated the whole thing. I was you're mentioning the band Earlier,
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to speak to to Mr Ken Scott,
Speaker 1: co producer on all those great albums, uh, and he
Speaker 1: spoke a great deal about David's sort of his his skills,
Speaker 1: brilliance at putting people together and choosing people for what
Speaker 1: they were able to do and letting them do what
Speaker 1: they were good at and their skill set, and putting
Speaker 1: everybody together and having this sort of almost social alchemy
Speaker 1: in a way. Uh did you experience that with him?
Speaker 1: I mean just with with putting bands together, in groups
Speaker 1: of people together. Uh? Yeah, what was he like as
Speaker 1: a as a as a leader, Yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: wasn't evident at the time because at that point I
Speaker 1: had didn't have enough experience to realize what was going on.
Speaker 1: But in hind stight and then all the years are
Speaker 1: after that, I think why David's bands and his records
Speaker 1: were the way they were is that everybody that was
Speaker 1: involved was there for a specific talent that they had,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It wasn't like we were
Speaker 1: session guys. You know, I had my thing and this
Speaker 1: guy ad his thing, and and that's why you were there.
Speaker 1: You were not there to put on different hats. You
Speaker 1: were there to be I just wore the Earl Slick hat.
Speaker 1: Tony Numan wre the Tony Newman hat. We were there
Speaker 1: for specific and it wasn't just how he played, It
Speaker 1: was the whole package. You know, there were certain things
Speaker 1: that that he wanted, that that he saw your personality,
Speaker 1: your the way you dressed, the way you carried yourself.
Speaker 1: You're playing he package. That's why you were there. Midway
Speaker 1: through the Diamond Dogs tour, go into the studio in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia and start cutting what would become Young Americans very
Speaker 1: very different sound, going from this kind of glam rock
Speaker 1: sound to you know, Philly soul and and and just
Speaker 1: R and B and and funk. How did you feel
Speaker 1: about that at the time? Do you feel about that shift?
Speaker 1: Did it's a blindside you in a way? Or what
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Yeah, it kind of did
Speaker 1: because I was no stranger to R and B. Because
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I played a lot of it. Uh,
Speaker 1: when we were doing a lot of the clubs in
Speaker 1: New York back before Bowie, when when I was doing
Speaker 1: all that, you played, you know these bar gigs, Um
Speaker 1: some bar gigs they expected you to do like the
Speaker 1: top twenty hits whatever they were. But there were specific
Speaker 1: clubs in the city that um they really uh, their
Speaker 1: whole thing was about let's let's say, uh what you
Speaker 1: call soul, you know, so you would play James Brown
Speaker 1: stuff and then you do Memphis stuff like there would
Speaker 1: be Eddie Floyd and Sam and Day. So I played
Speaker 1: a lot of it, you know. Uh, but when we
Speaker 1: did David's think it was more more of the pop
Speaker 1: kind of R and B stuff. And also it was
Speaker 1: such a departure from the rock and roll stuff that
Speaker 1: I was disappointed because it really didn't leave me much
Speaker 1: room to do much as a guitarist, mostly for people
Speaker 1: like Carlos Alamar and kind of getting that type of
Speaker 1: guitar playing in there that territory tho he shines. You know,
Speaker 1: Do you have any any favorite memories from that session,
Speaker 1: because well, but this one I wanted I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you about because I know Fame is on that album.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you about playing with with with
Speaker 1: John Lennon. But I was doing a little research and
Speaker 1: there's some debate about whether you actually played with John. Well, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm told I was there. The credits say I was there.
Speaker 1: John Lennon said I was there. I don't remember. Oh man,
Speaker 1: did he did? Did he? He bust your chops for that.
Speaker 1: Later when when you're playing double Fantasy, absolutely Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had fun with that. You post have loved that,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure that doesn't happen very often to him. No,
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that I had the balls
Speaker 1: to tell him that I didn't remember he liked. Oh. Man,
Speaker 1: I mean when you're when you're first starting to play
Speaker 1: with somebody of a Bowie or a Lennon caliber, when
Speaker 1: you first entered the room with him, how do you
Speaker 1: how do you connect with those guys initially? Because I
Speaker 1: imagine after you know, five ten years of that level
Speaker 1: of fame, they must have some degree of protection I'll
Speaker 1: call it armor. How do you get through that and
Speaker 1: just just just get to hang with them on a
Speaker 1: on a personal level and kind of get them to
Speaker 1: upset that down? You know, everybody's a little different from
Speaker 1: the next guy. With David Um, oh well he would
Speaker 1: be well obviously the first person of that caliber that
Speaker 1: I was exposed to to work with and um on
Speaker 1: a personal level. Man, this is this is this is
Speaker 1: a funny one because it's hard to describe it in
Speaker 1: a way. Uh, he was in his own world, you know,
Speaker 1: So it wasn't like you would get in a band
Speaker 1: with the guys and all of a sudden you're hanging
Speaker 1: out and doing that once you know. You know when
Speaker 1: we first started, you know, he called me out of
Speaker 1: the Blue Sea, I'm going to see Roxy music tonight.
Speaker 1: You want to go to the show? Yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But that was by design in hindsight, because he liked
Speaker 1: elements of that, and so if if if he invited
Speaker 1: me to a show, a lot of times it had
Speaker 1: to do with him wanting me to see that show
Speaker 1: because it may relate to what we were doing, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But you know when you meet people,
Speaker 1: when you work with people like that, Um, like I said,
Speaker 1: they're all different. Uh. John Lennon was like being in
Speaker 1: a band. Would wanted the dudes? You know, it was
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it hit, It hit a personal
Speaker 1: note right out of the gate, where with Bowie it
Speaker 1: didn't end as time went on. With David, Um, I
Speaker 1: didn't really pursue a friendship thing, you know what I mean. Um,
Speaker 1: My instincts told me that, and my instincts were right
Speaker 1: because one thing about David, Uh, I don't think you
Speaker 1: could you could be his friend. I don't think he
Speaker 1: was capable of it. Whereas John was just with everything
Speaker 1: he had going on or just as a person just
Speaker 1: you think it was. Uh. In the later years, um,
Speaker 1: there were there were more occasions because we knew each
Speaker 1: other so long as the years went on and so
Speaker 1: well that we would have like personal conversations and it
Speaker 1: was and also in the later years, the drugs were
Speaker 1: gone from all of us, so it was you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, it lent u up more to having
Speaker 1: something other than a cocaine fueled hangout. I guess I
Speaker 1: suppose on that topic, one of my favorite albums of
Speaker 1: all time bar none is Station the Station. And for
Speaker 1: that album, there's a lot of mythology that surrounds that album. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, according to law Bowie around that time is
Speaker 1: almos like this Brian Wilson figure is kind of mysterious figure.
Speaker 1: What were those sessions actually like when when you were
Speaker 1: in the room with him? Was because I imagine me
Speaker 1: it's it's such especially the title track, it's such a
Speaker 1: complicated track. I imagine that the planning that must have
Speaker 1: gone into that must have been immense. Funny, there was
Speaker 1: no planning going to that track that that that when
Speaker 1: we went to make that record. Uh, A lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff was the maturial was basically half written. It
Speaker 1: was a work in progress to night. The title track
Speaker 1: was two if not three, separate pieces that he had
Speaker 1: floating around that we basically as we were going through it,
Speaker 1: he was just pulling like half finished things and we
Speaker 1: were going him together. And that's how that track happened.
Speaker 1: If you listen to what you could hear it, it's
Speaker 1: like a mini opera. It's like a quick one that
Speaker 1: he's away or something. It starts off with that real
Speaker 1: dirty dirge at the beginning. Then it's all up temple
Speaker 1: at the end, and it's got that little weird thin
Speaker 1: like dude in there. It was. It was chunks glued
Speaker 1: together and somehow he managed to turn it into a
Speaker 1: a song. You know, huh. It's amazing how we could
Speaker 1: be that out there yet still not alienate people. Like
Speaker 1: it's still is so accessible and so just. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could say about everything anything he ever does. I mean,
Speaker 1: he definitely he brings you along for the ride, but
Speaker 1: he never really alienates. I don't think no. I think
Speaker 1: you're right, um, you know, I think what you have
Speaker 1: to take into consideration is where our whole society was
Speaker 1: at the time, where the music business was at the time,
Speaker 1: where the fans were at the time, how how how
Speaker 1: young we were at the time. You know, it was
Speaker 1: a different world entirely. That world is not even remotely
Speaker 1: close to this world in terms of music and bands.
Speaker 1: Different I mean not even different ballgame, different world. You know,
Speaker 1: there was no with him, which is one of the
Speaker 1: things I wanted. There was never some you didn't go
Speaker 1: in the studio when we started station. There wasn't some
Speaker 1: kind of big plan like this is the kind of
Speaker 1: record we're gonna make, and this is how we're gonna Nah.
Speaker 1: We just went in there and and it. I don't
Speaker 1: think this is funny about what I thought about Station,
Speaker 1: the station many times as I go, you know what,
Speaker 1: we didn't really make a record. The record happened. We
Speaker 1: were just there. I mean, if that makes any sense,
Speaker 1: the spontaneity, just organics build up around you. Yea, what
Speaker 1: did you play on that was that you st jr Uh.
Speaker 1: Some of it's that, A lot of it is uh.
Speaker 1: I think it was this nineteen seventy or seventies. That
Speaker 1: was the early seventies um Less Paul black One and
Speaker 1: I had UH also in nineteen seventy for Less Paul
Speaker 1: Anniversary model A white one. Man, what was your ring
Speaker 1: back then? I mean this that sound is just oh
Speaker 1: my god. I've playing at all by myself. I've been
Speaker 1: trying to figure out and I and I am completely lost.
Speaker 1: Simple as it gets. Man, it was just a one
Speaker 1: Marshall half stack and and you know before I don't
Speaker 1: know if we're gonna talk techie shot here, but it
Speaker 1: was before they were using the master volumes to drive
Speaker 1: the the distoration. So to make that and break up
Speaker 1: you had to crank it. And that was it. That
Speaker 1: was the rig. That and um my pedal board on
Speaker 1: Diamond Dog's tour. My pedal board consisted of one n
Speaker 1: x R Phase ninety pedal. That was it. Wow. So
Speaker 1: it was it was straight into the amp. Wow, that
Speaker 1: is wild. Oh man. But I mean, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: it was all. It was all in your fingers. Then
Speaker 1: at that point, it wasn't like well yeah yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean when you you know, you learn how to play
Speaker 1: guitar and you have the tools in front of you,
Speaker 1: your main tools. Right in that case, it was just
Speaker 1: a guitar and amp. It wasn't like we started off
Speaker 1: with a pedal board. So basically you had to get
Speaker 1: what you wanted to get with a guitar amp and
Speaker 1: your fingers and your ears. I can't mention station a
Speaker 1: station without stay good lord. That is an absolutely incredible track.
Speaker 1: I mean, how did that that track build up around you?
Speaker 1: That track? Um, it's funny. Uh, you're probably you're you're
Speaker 1: a bowie dude. Um, you're familiar with John I'm Only dancing. Okay.
Speaker 1: He wanted to redo it. He wanted to get a
Speaker 1: new arrangement for it and record it. And um we did. Actually, uh,
Speaker 1: we did some rehearsals for that album, not per se
Speaker 1: like uh, it was more of a loosen the band up,
Speaker 1: you know. We booked a rehearsal place and and and
Speaker 1: basically he brought these chunks of ideas and he just
Speaker 1: wanted to fool around with him to get a feel
Speaker 1: to see what we were doing. And so we started
Speaker 1: messing around with John, and um, he wanted a new arrangement,
Speaker 1: So he said, can you come up with a lick
Speaker 1: or something and we could use that maybe in base
Speaker 1: a new arrangement of John I'm Only Dancing off that lick.
Speaker 1: So the lick was born and then instead of being John,
Speaker 1: it turned into stay if if you you play right
Speaker 1: a little bit, A little bit. Um, if you listen
Speaker 1: to John I'm only dancing and then listen to Stay
Speaker 1: back to back and listen to the chorus and listen
Speaker 1: to the chords the same. I never put that together. Wow,
Speaker 1: do it? It's the same. It's the same. Bit. So
Speaker 1: what was gonna be a rearranged ghon IM only dancing
Speaker 1: turn into Stay? That is? I mean, that track is amazing.
Speaker 1: Is there a song that you did with David that
Speaker 1: that you're the most proud of? Yeah? I mean through
Speaker 1: the years, I wouldn't say this anyone, but, um, you know,
Speaker 1: like as far as albums go, because of the way
Speaker 1: it all went down and what I contributed to its
Speaker 1: Station would be my go to Bowie album for me. Um,
Speaker 1: and I I can always go by the ones I
Speaker 1: love to play. Those would be and off of that album. Uh.
Speaker 1: I love playing all of them. But I always loved
Speaker 1: doing Station live even more than Stay. I love doing Stay,
Speaker 1: but because Station is such a weird trip. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then over the years, uh, when we when I
Speaker 1: started making records with him again in the two thousand's,
Speaker 1: the last album we did, last album he did band
Speaker 1: album that he did was the Next Day and I
Speaker 1: love Valentine's stay on that. That's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: And we never played that live because it wasn't written,
Speaker 1: but we were still playing. Oh that that solo on that,
Speaker 1: that that Dave Davies lick is so great. I love
Speaker 1: that picked up on that. Oh my god, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's I think my favorite track on on the Next
Speaker 1: Day that. I mean, that's such a funny period to
Speaker 1: have worked with him, from you know, seventy four to
Speaker 1: I Mean, something I love about David's music is that
Speaker 1: it just it evolved so rapidly, like the Beatles, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean the Beatles, you go eighteen months you got
Speaker 1: Rubber Solda, Sergeant Pepper. Same with David. How did he change?
Speaker 1: What changes did you pick up on when you started
Speaker 1: working with him again in the in the two thousands.
Speaker 1: Had he has his approach to music changed dratstically or not? Really? No, Um,
Speaker 1: the way he recorded and did all that with us
Speaker 1: didn't change. The only thing that did change was the
Speaker 1: technical part of it, because with the new recording techniques,
Speaker 1: if we weren't always all in the same room at
Speaker 1: the same time recording those new records, like when I
Speaker 1: did UM the next day, I didn't play on I
Speaker 1: played on I think two basic tracks. Uh, because I
Speaker 1: was I was in the room when he brought Valentine's
Speaker 1: Day in and played it on acoustic and left it
Speaker 1: to me to come up with what I came up with,
Speaker 1: you know, because he you know the way he would
Speaker 1: do it. A lot of times he would just come
Speaker 1: and playing an acous He goes, what are you hearing?
Speaker 1: You got any ideas off the cuff? I said, I
Speaker 1: hear kinks all over that fucking thing, and he's and
Speaker 1: you know, he lit up. And so that's what we did.
Speaker 1: So it's like you had mentioned earlier that he brought
Speaker 1: people into the fold for specific reasons of what they
Speaker 1: did and and so to get the best out of somebody,
Speaker 1: you you you don't steer them in some kind of
Speaker 1: weird direction like or or a direction that you don't
Speaker 1: think that they can go in or you know, bottom
Speaker 1: line is is you know what the guy does and
Speaker 1: start there. So from that point of view, Uh, his
Speaker 1: working methods with me, let's say, never changed. I spoke
Speaker 1: with a lucky enough to speak with Gail and Dorsey,
Speaker 1: and she was talking about how he would he would
Speaker 1: push but gently. He would push you right into outside
Speaker 1: your comfort zone, but in a way that helped you
Speaker 1: grow and not try to make you something that you weren't. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what he had, He had a really good
Speaker 1: understanding of what he could and couldn't get out of somebody.
Speaker 1: He is instincts told him when we did Station to
Speaker 1: station that I could be pushed further in the direction
Speaker 1: we took that record, and he was absolutely right. You
Speaker 1: played with David off and on for nearly forty years.
Speaker 1: Did he ever articulate, either through words or actions, what
Speaker 1: it was that he loved about your playing, like why
Speaker 1: he kept coming back to you or was it really
Speaker 1: just the whole package and feel? No, it was an
Speaker 1: understanding and uh and he did say things are remember
Speaker 1: when we um the first day uh in in the
Speaker 1: summer of two thousand and twelve, when we went in
Speaker 1: to do the next day, I hadn't seen him for
Speaker 1: a few years, and they walked in the studio and
Speaker 1: he said, oh, rock and roll is still here. So
Speaker 1: he liked that element of me, you know, because he would,
Speaker 1: you know, you would he would insinuate little Keith things
Speaker 1: with me. You know, you were the Keith to his
Speaker 1: his mix. Yeah, you know, because if you look at
Speaker 1: all the guitar players over the years, I don't think
Speaker 1: there wasn't a David Bowie guitar type of a person. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to take me and compare
Speaker 1: that to Fripp or Blue or even Mick, and me
Speaker 1: and Mick were more in the same page, but still
Speaker 1: the element was different. You know, on the serious Moonlight
Speaker 1: Tour and the Reality Tour, you were playing songs from
Speaker 1: throughout his discography some three years, and he obviously changed
Speaker 1: to sound a great deal. Was it ever a challenge
Speaker 1: to play songs that spans so many different styles and
Speaker 1: genres and in many cases were played by different people,
Speaker 1: You know what, it would have been a challenge if
Speaker 1: I had to cover those guys bases. A matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I would have been screwed if I had to do that,
Speaker 1: because it's all it's a different ballgame, uh. And that's
Speaker 1: why we had two completely different kind of guitar players
Speaker 1: on the stage. You know, Jerry Leonard and myself don't
Speaker 1: play it at all alike. And and he also, Jerry
Speaker 1: loves all that electronics stuff and all that, So you know,
Speaker 1: he covered that and I covered the other stuff, so
Speaker 1: you weren't being pulled in a direction where you were
Speaker 1: just gonna drown in the middle of all that ship.
Speaker 1: Is there a m a snapshot in your mind that
Speaker 1: you have that really just sums up or encapsulates, uh,
Speaker 1: your time with David, all your your years with him
Speaker 1: in the studio, around the stage. Wow, it's a hard question.
Speaker 1: And that's an awful long time and an awful lot
Speaker 1: of memories, I'm sure. Um. The only thing I could
Speaker 1: say out of all those years was as compatible as
Speaker 1: we were as guys on and off stage, it was
Speaker 1: one thing that will stand out. It's a good question,
Speaker 1: by the way, Um, one thing that will stand out
Speaker 1: is how locked in and connected we were at times
Speaker 1: on stage and in the studio, and how maybe from
Speaker 1: the outside looking in people would perceive things that air differently,
Speaker 1: were as as close as we could get at those times.
Speaker 1: We were that far away most of the time. That
Speaker 1: makes sense, existing in the same orbit. But never Yeah,
Speaker 1: once in a while though, that that really direct connection
Speaker 1: would happen and some magical ship would come out of that,
Speaker 1: you know, especially you know, and and more on stage
Speaker 1: than in the studio, but even in the studio would happen.
Speaker 1: But you know, we were we we were by no
Speaker 1: means uh operated the same way, but we did have
Speaker 1: some similarities. And when it came to uh, personal level stuff,
Speaker 1: neither one of us And I'm still like this, we
Speaker 1: we we're not the easiest people to get close to,
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way, which is probably why after
Speaker 1: all the little years, me and David never had a
Speaker 1: personal problem ever. And I'm not going to mention any names,
Speaker 1: but boy, there was a couple of situations over the
Speaker 1: years where that went wrong for some people. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't by design from my end. I just my instincts were,
Speaker 1: don't get too close to this motherfucker is it can
Speaker 1: go wrong. A lot of heat there, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you had an understanding it was,
Speaker 1: and that's probably something he appreciated about you. It probably
Speaker 1: had so many people that were trying to get to him.
Speaker 1: You know what, You're absolutely right, and that was never
Speaker 1: stated verbally, but I know, damn well that was appreciated.
Speaker 1: And what I appreciated was the fact that he never
Speaker 1: hid the fact that he could be the most inconsistent
Speaker 1: person on the planet. Uh, whereas you know, you'll come
Speaker 1: off a tour, like serious moonlight tour. And he says, oh,
Speaker 1: because we finished that in the end of the year.
Speaker 1: It was like December or something like that of eighty
Speaker 1: three and and um, so we're getting ready to jump
Speaker 1: into and he goes, hey, it's slicky here. We're gonna go.
Speaker 1: I'm back in the studio in January. So you got
Speaker 1: like a month off and we're back in never heard
Speaker 1: from him, and you just and that was okay. And
Speaker 1: you know what, man, it wasn't really okay okay, but
Speaker 1: it was no surprise. It wasn't like I went, wow, man,
Speaker 1: what happened? Then I go up there he goes again.
Speaker 1: So I would move on and do something else, knowing
Speaker 1: that if and when we ever connected again, we'd be
Speaker 1: right back to that good spot that we always had.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. I was gonna ask
Speaker 1: if you just fall right back into place after all
Speaker 1: those years, like a you know, like a coffy par
Speaker 1: of shoes or something. Yeah, because you know, and I've
Speaker 1: seen this and you've seen this too in life. Is
Speaker 1: um when things like that happened? Right? Um? For instance,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I'm I'm told we're going in
Speaker 1: the studio in a month, and I don't hear anything
Speaker 1: from him. Sure, I was a little piste off, you know,
Speaker 1: But thinking about it when we did reconnect again, First
Speaker 1: of all, nothing was said about it. There was no
Speaker 1: reason to say anything about it. And it's like it
Speaker 1: never happened. And it was like when we did the
Speaker 1: next day, I hadn't heard from him for a while,
Speaker 1: and unbeknownst to me, he'd been in the studio on
Speaker 1: and off for a year before he called me to
Speaker 1: do that record. And this is how weird this ship is.
Speaker 1: I ended up on that record by a complete twist
Speaker 1: of faith because you know, I had been in touch
Speaker 1: with the other band members because we were all friends,
Speaker 1: and they've been in recording, like Jerry Lennon was doing
Speaker 1: the guitars and Sterling was playing and uh, because they
Speaker 1: had to sign an agreement and shut up, they couldn't
Speaker 1: tell me they were doing it. And these are my buddies, right, Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, you don't get piste off about it.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. But so, and I've told
Speaker 1: this story before, you might I might be repeating myself up,
Speaker 1: I am, you can stop me. But in July. No,
Speaker 1: actually it was around April or so, maybe April or
Speaker 1: May of two thousand and twelve. I was in New
Speaker 1: Jersey sitting in at this blues club and I went,
Speaker 1: I have a friend. He said, the doctor. And uh.
Speaker 1: He also, this guy does everything. He's a surgeon. But
Speaker 1: he built his own airplane. Okay, he does this kind
Speaker 1: of ship and he flies it. I've been in the
Speaker 1: plane with him. And he built a Cobra. Yeah, Shelby,
Speaker 1: yes man. So it was a really nice day. You know,
Speaker 1: it must have been around the spring, because I remembered
Speaker 1: that it was. The trees were already and and he said,
Speaker 1: let's hey, let's drive to the to the to the
Speaker 1: gig in this. I said, fuck, yeah, cool. We get
Speaker 1: in the car. Something had been done wrong with the
Speaker 1: fuel system. Long story short. We're driving the car and
Speaker 1: I start seeing smoke come up the hood and cars
Speaker 1: not running very well. We get out of the car
Speaker 1: and within sixty seconds the car has gone. It went
Speaker 1: up in plane and so. And this is in the
Speaker 1: middle of the air afternoon in Montclair, New Jersey. Right,
Speaker 1: it was a very It's all of doctors and lawyers houses, right,
Speaker 1: and you know there's a fire department, the cops, and
Speaker 1: there were some pressed people there and one of them
Speaker 1: pinned me because, you know, figured out who is this
Speaker 1: guy figured it out? So it the incident hit the
Speaker 1: internet within an hour. You know. It's not like you
Speaker 1: have to wait for newspapers to be printed anymore, you know.
Speaker 1: He tweeted it right out and David saw it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I got an email from David the next morning
Speaker 1: is hey, man, I saw the news when happened you okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine, nobody got hurt. Blah blah blah. Oh cool,
Speaker 1: all right, great calculator. You know, within a few hours
Speaker 1: I got another email, so how are you doing? What
Speaker 1: are you up to? Right? I'm getting these over a
Speaker 1: period of about a day or two. I'm going, okay,
Speaker 1: he's fishing. Finally, I said, okay, is there anything you
Speaker 1: want to talk about on the This is all through email,
Speaker 1: no phone calls, and and then he drops the bomb
Speaker 1: on me about making the record. So had I not
Speaker 1: blown this fucking car up, likely would not have been
Speaker 1: on that record. And that that's not me exaggerating opportunities
Speaker 1: coming in strange shapes and size as I guess that
Speaker 1: is so Bowie. You know. That's why after all those
Speaker 1: years when things would he didn't work out where he
Speaker 1: said they were going to, I didn't. I never took
Speaker 1: it personally. One thing about being around that guy. If
Speaker 1: you had thin skin, you were in the wrong band.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like he. It wasn't like a vindictive,
Speaker 1: mean guy. It's just, you know, if you were gonna
Speaker 1: get your feelings hurt because you were asked to play
Speaker 1: on a record and and and nobody botted to call
Speaker 1: you that you're in the wrong place. It was the
Speaker 1: wrong industry too, when you were in the wrong industry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know it was it was all the time,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh you know, why the hell did you know?
Speaker 1: Because we had a blowout in seventy at the end
Speaker 1: of seventy five early seventies six, after we did the station.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm not on that. That's why I disappeared.
Speaker 1: But it had nothing to do with him. It was business.
Speaker 1: It was our managers and it exploded. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: a personal thing. I mean, it did get personal, but
Speaker 1: that wasn't the root of the problem. Uh So why
Speaker 1: after that whole explosion. Does he call me back in
Speaker 1: to cover the basis for the series Moonlight Tour? You know,
Speaker 1: there's a reason. Maybe it's the same reason he didn't
Speaker 1: call me for the other album. Who knows. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing that I never really put
Speaker 1: any thought into, because why you just trusted. Yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you remember the the last time that you you made
Speaker 1: music together with him? Yeah? It was on the next day,
Speaker 1: and um, the last This is funny because it was
Speaker 1: a funny day. The last track I did we had cut,
Speaker 1: I don't know. We we did some basic tracks. Oh
Speaker 1: you could set the world on fire, or we will
Speaker 1: set the world on fire. And we'd cut the basic
Speaker 1: track a few days earlier, and we needed to do
Speaker 1: the solo. I said to do my solo. And I
Speaker 1: was distracted by some tech stuff that was going on,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't locking in that well, you know, and
Speaker 1: I knew it, you know, And so he started to
Speaker 1: get uh, he started getting impatient and the way that
Speaker 1: was not normal for him, right, and it piste me off.
Speaker 1: So I blew up at him, and so we had
Speaker 1: this little blow up. I was in the studio in
Speaker 1: the main room with my headphones on, and he's in
Speaker 1: the control room and we were I really went off,
Speaker 1: and there was VISCONTI was in the room and a
Speaker 1: couple of the texts were in the room. The text frozen, terrified,
Speaker 1: froze they I don't I think they were afraid to
Speaker 1: to breathe. And um. So after that, David just threw
Speaker 1: his hands up, right, and so I go to viscontry. Okay,
Speaker 1: Tony's try it again. All right, try it again. I
Speaker 1: nailed one time through, right, So as I played a
Speaker 1: last note, here's David popping up. I can see through
Speaker 1: the glass and he's waving his arms and he HiT's
Speaker 1: the key, HiT's the intercom going slicky. That was incendiary,
Speaker 1: and that was fucking great. That's done. Come on here,
Speaker 1: So I come in. I talked to myself, you know what,
Speaker 1: this fucking guy pissed me off on purpose? Did you
Speaker 1: do that on purpose? And he just looked at me
Speaker 1: with this kind of like you will never know. So
Speaker 1: that was my last memory of the last day that
Speaker 1: we have worked together. Off the Record is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. If you liked what you heard,
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts,
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: One