1
00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel Podcast. I'm Paul swing you,

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,720
Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma wits. Each day

3
00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,560
Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,480
Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple

6
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

7
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: that Bloomberg dot com. Least, let's bring out a good friend,

8
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,799
Speaker 1: Carl Ricky Donny. He's the chief US economist for Bloomberg Economics. Carl,

9
00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 1: you listen to Chairman j Pal. You know, what do

10
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 1: you take from the Fed's actions this morning? Well, defense

11
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,560
Speaker 1: actions which we expected them to come in with some

12
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: additional measures to support main Street, but this did go

13
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 1: beyond those expectations. The FETE is really showing UH to

14
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,560
Speaker 1: to use Mario drags word, that they're doing whatever it takes.

15
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: So those who thought the FED maybe running low on

16
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: ammunition prior to this crisis are getting a very rude

17
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: uh and welcome awakening, I should say, as we see

18
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: them really pulling out all the stops, showing tremendous dynamism

19
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,319
Speaker 1: and creativity and also aggressiveness in terms of providing support

20
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: to UH financial markets really across the spectrum. There's some

21
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: concern just going forward about the political ramifications for the

22
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve as they choose which bonds to buy and

23
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: backstop and which not to what's sort of the precedent

24
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 1: when it comes to the Fed's role in this capacity

25
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,399
Speaker 1: and the fallout afterwards. Well, there's there's really no precedent

26
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: for what we're seeing the FED doing at the moment.

27
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 1: The FED tries to just step into general markets and

28
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 1: not pick winners and losers. So they won't be saying

29
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 1: we'll buy company X and UH and skip company why. Instead,

30
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: they'll purchase a broad spectrum of the securities, whether it's

31
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,080
Speaker 1: in the mortgage market, corporate bond market, and also these

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: additional lending facilities. So I think as we think about

33
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: political outcomes here, UH, certainly the FED will be viewed favorably.

34
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: Favorably post crisis when we're looking back to a second

35
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: quarter swoon and economic activity that could rival some of

36
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,519
Speaker 1: the contractions we saw during the Great Depression and unemployment

37
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 1: rate that's the highest since the Great Depression, and an

38
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 1: economy that comes out the backside of that, UH actually

39
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,240
Speaker 1: functioning reasonably well with certainly casualties. UH. There will be

40
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 1: bankruptcies and UH and and businesses that are shuttered, but

41
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 1: come through that much more readily than the experience than

42
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 1: prior experiences where we saw that kind of economic dislocation. Carl,

43
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 1: Every economist who I've spoken with applaudse what the Federal

44
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 1: Reserve is doing right now, saying that they're acting quickly

45
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: and aggressively at a time of incredible stress that's affecting

46
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 1: individuals both on a health and financial UH. Financial manner

47
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: that is unprecedented in many ways. There is a question though,

48
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: going forward of the Federal Reserves rule and how they

49
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 1: extricate themselves. And when you say that they buy broad markets,

50
00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,799
Speaker 1: one way they're trying to do that is with e

51
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 1: T s and I'm wondering how that changes the dynamic

52
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: at a time when exchange fitted funds, at least in

53
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: credit markets have taken on an outsized role and can

54
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,080
Speaker 1: be viewed as winning or losing based on what the

55
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,639
Speaker 1: FED does. Sure, if if there's a big market and

56
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,080
Speaker 1: there's signs of strain, the Fed is absolutely step stepping

57
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 1: in to help bus stabilize financial conditions. What we're seeing here.

58
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 1: We really shouldn't think of this as economic stimulus. Certainly,

59
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: the FED has cut industrates to zero, and all the

60
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 1: measures they're taking should help to prop up the economy,

61
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,080
Speaker 1: won't see lockdown ends. But what really what the FED

62
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 1: is doing here is financial market stabilization, right, So they're

63
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: not picking winners and losers and industries or credit sectors

64
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 1: or whatnot. They're looking at core components of the capital markets,

65
00:03:54,320 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: the municipal market, corporate bonds, also small businesses and whatnot,

66
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: and they are stepping into stabilized conditions so that liquidity

67
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 1: strains don't become solvency strains, uh in the in the

68
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 1: longer run. So, Carl, it's it's fairly cleared. I think

69
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,040
Speaker 1: that most observers at the US economy right now is

70
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: in a recession. How does Bloomberg Economics kind of map

71
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: out the remainder of the year in terms of GDP? Sure? So, well,

72
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult to map out what the recovery

73
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 1: looks like when you still can't see the bottom and

74
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,520
Speaker 1: we don't know how far we're going to fall. So

75
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: until we see some signs of stabilization in the economy

76
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: in those earliest indications will be something like the number

77
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,799
Speaker 1: of unemployment claim filings starting to recede. We haven't gotten

78
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: there yet. Right each week, we're seeing millions and millions,

79
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,839
Speaker 1: six million filings UH in the in the latest week alone,

80
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: So until we see jobless claims start to pull back,

81
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: then we don't really know how high the unemployment rate

82
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 1: is going to go. So based on our projections U

83
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,480
Speaker 1: we're about fifteen million filings of jobless claims so far,

84
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,600
Speaker 1: if we get to twenty million by the middle of April,

85
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 1: so with next week's data, we're looking at an unemployment

86
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,839
Speaker 1: rate heading to about fifteen percent or potentially higher in

87
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 1: the second quarter. That kind of baseline expectations how many

88
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,360
Speaker 1: workers were shut out of the economy gives us some

89
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,440
Speaker 1: context to understand how deep the economic dive will be

90
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 1: in the quarter as well. Right, it takes a certain

91
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: number of workers to bruce a certain amount of GDP,

92
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 1: So if we know unemployment has gone from three and

93
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 1: a half to fifteen, then we can map out what

94
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 1: that looks like for GDP. Wow. Carl ka Dona, chief

95
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: US economists for Bloomberck Economics, thanks so much for joining us.

96
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 1: We always appreciate your commentary and thoughts on particularly today

97
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: that you know that we got the jobless claims LEASA

98
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: and then the this this really aggressive uh move by

99
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,479
Speaker 1: the Fed. I think looking back, as Karl suggested, you know,

100
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna look back and say on this and say,

101
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve really really formed. Well, they were aggressive, Uh,

102
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,839
Speaker 1: they were early, um, and they were consistent um, and

103
00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,919
Speaker 1: they really thought outside of the box here. So the

104
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 1: Fed is certainly trying, uh it's most to keep ahead

105
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,599
Speaker 1: of this, Paul. Today is a historic day. I think

106
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 1: that we all are going to look back on today

107
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: as reaching a tipping point with the Federal Reserve absolutely

108
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 1: solidifying its role at the forefront of trying to save

109
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,480
Speaker 1: the economy of the world's biggest economy. What we've seen,

110
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: I mean that that to me, I feel like is

111
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 1: a fair assessment of what we saw today. I think

112
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 1: you're right least I think they were. You know, they've

113
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: been early, I think relatively speaking relative to fiscal policy certainly,

114
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 1: and they've certainly been aggressive here and again another two

115
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 1: point three trillion dollar package today, really focusing on small

116
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: and midsized business as well as state and local municipalities. Yeah,

117
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: it also raises some philosophical questions about the Central Bank

118
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 1: to the world, which it increasingly has becommon. When we

119
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: talk philosophical questions, no one better to talk to them

120
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 1: with than Barry rid Holts, who is a Bloomberg Opinion

121
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,599
Speaker 1: contributor as well as the co founder of rid Holts

122
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 1: Wealth Management and of course the host of Masters in

123
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: Business on Bloomberg Radio. Barry, I want to talk about

124
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,720
Speaker 1: the FEDS rule here J Powell kind of drawing the

125
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: distinction between lending versus giving money and saying that they

126
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 1: were a lender, and the congressional leadership they were the givers.

127
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: And yet it does seem like Congress moves just by

128
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 1: nature of the body and by design slower than the

129
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,920
Speaker 1: FED can. And the FED has taken the central role.

130
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: What are the consequences for the FED steps and the

131
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 1: measures that we have seen so far? So let me

132
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: just push back a tiny bit against your question, because historically,

133
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,400
Speaker 1: outside of the O eight oh nine crisis, we have

134
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 1: seen Congress move quickly. They moved fairly quickly in the

135
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 1: Great Depression, they moved fairly quick immediately after Pearl Harbor,

136
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 1: after September eleven, so they can step up to the

137
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 1: plate when necessary. They really were just a wall in

138
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: O eight oh nine. And in fact, the biggest distinction

139
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,200
Speaker 1: between the crisis and the O eight crisis is that

140
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,720
Speaker 1: it is both monetary and fiscal in its response. And

141
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 1: I think J. Powell added exactly right. The said is

142
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: the central bank bankers to other bankers, and they're there

143
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: to make sure that the loans flow and that there's

144
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 1: plenty of liquidity. If you're going to give money away

145
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 1: or spend money, well that's a decision that must come

146
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: from Congress. So Barry, give us a sense of kind

147
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 1: of how you think all this FED action is really

148
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: going to impact the markets markets. Obviously it's a risk.

149
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,640
Speaker 1: On day today we're seeing the equity markets trade up

150
00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: in response to the FED move here, how do you

151
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 1: think that the actions were really plat in the market

152
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 1: over time? So all my technical friends are looking at

153
00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,680
Speaker 1: what's taking places more or less a dead cat bounce. Hey,

154
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: we'll bounce the lows and that's when the snapback rally

155
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,840
Speaker 1: will run out of steam and then we'll either retest

156
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: or make new lows. I understand how they feel that way.

157
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm not a in that camp, because if we do,

158
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, just today Fiser came out with testing a

159
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,440
Speaker 1: new treatment for this. If we can actually get to

160
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 1: the point where we see the light at the end

161
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: of the tunnel and the lockdown ends, well the FED

162
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: will have done their job, Congress will have done their job,

163
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 1: and we'll start moving towards a more normal footing. It's

164
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,920
Speaker 1: going to take a while, but it's not oblique, and

165
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 1: there are signs that you know, there is a natural

166
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,560
Speaker 1: end to this crisis. Comment. There has been a general

167
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: feeling that the Federal Reserve is acted appropriately given the

168
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,199
Speaker 1: magnitude of the shock uh that we're seeing right now.

169
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 1: Still a lot of questions remain about how the Federal

170
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: Reserve will extricate itself from this program, as well as

171
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 1: how it chooses which exchange did funds to buy. We're

172
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,199
Speaker 1: seeing For example, h y G, the biggest hiled bondy

173
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,439
Speaker 1: t F in the United States, surged the most in

174
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: October two thousand and eight. Today, are you concerned about

175
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: questions of moral hazard and choosing winners and losers that

176
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 1: will inevitably dog the FED following this? Sure? Always and

177
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 1: and in fact, you know, we don't even have to

178
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: wait five years to look do a post mortem on this.

179
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,679
Speaker 1: There was no reason for the Fed to go to zero.

180
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: It looked like they were panicking. They could have cut

181
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: a half half a point and left it there. It

182
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 1: makes it that much more difficult to extricate themselves. I

183
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 1: give Ben Bernankee high ratings for how he managed the

184
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,959
Speaker 1: period from O eight oh nine. He was he was

185
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:51,480
Speaker 1: way too accommodative beforehand and arguably stayed on emergency footing

186
00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 1: way too long. It's very easy to show up at

187
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 1: the party, uh with the punch bowl, which is what

188
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: the Fed is doing. It's much more challenging to take

189
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 1: that punch bowl away. We'll see if J Powell is

190
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 1: that are any better than Janet Yellen or Ben Bananke

191
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 1: at bringing rates back to more normal levels. It's very,

192
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,959
Speaker 1: very difficult to do. So Barry is he is he

193
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 1: kind of take a look at this market place here

194
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: again where we've had a number of updates here, how

195
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 1: are you really thinking about it? Here? Are you thinking

196
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: that this is a a real move or it's just

197
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 1: kind of a bounce within the context of a bear market.

198
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 1: So I love to think in opposites. I love to

199
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,120
Speaker 1: stake out of position and then try and say, okay,

200
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: what is the exact opposite position, and might that be right?

201
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,840
Speaker 1: You know, the real optimistic perspective is this is an externality.

202
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,280
Speaker 1: This is a one off event, and once we get

203
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,800
Speaker 1: through it, we'll go back to business as usual and

204
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 1: the priorable market will resume its former trend and the

205
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,880
Speaker 1: economy will will recover and everything will be fine. You know, historically,

206
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,679
Speaker 1: look at seven, not only was that the day, but

207
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 1: Pique the trough. It was more than and that uh

208
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 1: down draft never derailed the economy or the bull market.

209
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 1: So best case scenario, this is sort of like that

210
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. We're in a recession that lasts a

211
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: long time. The drawdowns continue. This is a dead cat bounce,

212
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: and we make new lows below doubt twenty and maybe

213
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: down to I don't know, pick the number two thousand

214
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: on the smp UM, and it will take a while

215
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,959
Speaker 1: to heal from this. The truth reality usually falls between

216
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: either extreme I doubt that this will all disappear once

217
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: it's over, once we get a treatment and a vaccine.

218
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: It's not all going to go away. There's a lot

219
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: of damage in the economy revealed by the collapse and

220
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 1: I also doubt that this is a seventies era decade

221
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,560
Speaker 1: long problem. This will take a couple of years to

222
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,079
Speaker 1: fully recover from UM. But you know, you're starting to

223
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 1: see some positive signs of this peaking. We still have

224
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,439
Speaker 1: a lot of work to go, but it doesn't feel

225
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,000
Speaker 1: like this is gonna last forever. Barry Dholts, thanks so

226
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 1: much for joining us. As always, Barry Ridholts, founder, Redholt's

227
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 1: Wealth Management is also Bloomberg Opinion calumnists and host of

228
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: Masters of Business podcasts. Well as we talk about the

229
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve is two point three trillion dollar extra bailout

230
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 1: money for credit markets and beyond, we have perhaps buried

231
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 1: the lead, which is that six point six million individuals

232
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 1: in the United States filed or I guess we're able

233
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,680
Speaker 1: to file for unemployment claims in the past week, bringing

234
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: the total three week claims figure too well above fifteen

235
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 1: million people. The jobless rate on track to exceed, well

236
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 1: exceed ten per cent for the first time since the

237
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,440
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, leading to a question of just how bad

238
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: is it and how quickly will some of these individuals

239
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 1: be able to get their jobs back? Joining us now,

240
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,920
Speaker 1: Hayden Brown president and chief executive officer of up work,

241
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 1: based in Mountain View, California, which up work is a

242
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,320
Speaker 1: job placement agency that focuses online, which is perfect for

243
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 1: the environment that we're living in. We're all in our

244
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,200
Speaker 1: on our screens and in our cyber worlds. Hayden, thank

245
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Do you have

246
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 1: a sense of how quickly people are able to sort

247
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 1: of reroot their skills find jobs, say in you know,

248
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 1: warehouses or other necessary rules as they wait this period

249
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: of tumult out. Certainly this is affecting different parts of

250
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 1: the economy, varied differently. You mentioned work workers and warehouses

251
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 1: and those types of jobs. I think they're just getting

252
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: pummeled and there's not a lot to do to move

253
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 1: those online. But in other sectors of the economy where

254
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 1: the work is more about knowledge work and digital work,

255
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: we're seeing clients and freelancers on our platform just moving

256
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 1: rapidly to expand their remote work deployments and get more

257
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: and more talent through online platforms like upward. So interesting, Heyden,

258
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: do you think this is maybe accelerating a trend which

259
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 1: may have already been there, which is kind of the

260
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 1: work from home type of situations and maybe expand new industries,

261
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 1: new functionalities. Is this something that you think will be

262
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 1: a longer term trend when we come out on the

263
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 1: other side of this, Paul, I think you're right about that.

264
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: This has definitely been a long term trend where more

265
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 1: and more workers have been demanding freedom and flexibility and

266
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 1: how they work and really clamoring to get more of that,

267
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 1: and employers have started to see some of the benefits.

268
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: But the current crisis has no doubt accelerated massively people's

269
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 1: adoption of both the tools and technology that enable remote work,

270
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 1: as well as the cultural and behavioral things that people

271
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: need to do to really collaborate successfully together remotely. So

272
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: I think that those patterns of behavior will be here

273
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 1: to stay, and this is going to be a seismic

274
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,520
Speaker 1: shift that lasts well beyond the current crisis. Hayden, what

275
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 1: does the research show as far as the percentage of

276
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 1: the workforce that can go online at this point? You know,

277
00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: the numbers on that vary, But what we've seen in

278
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 1: the US already recently m I t to the study

279
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 1: where of the workforce or more has moved from commuting

280
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: to offices to online, and so I think there have

281
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: been some myths where people felt like this is something

282
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 1: that they potentially couldn't do. But we've seen you more

283
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: than an eight fold increase in people moving their work

284
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,800
Speaker 1: online in the last couple of weeks alone, which I

285
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: think does indicate people are realizing there's a lot more

286
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 1: they can do online than maybe what they previously saw it. So, hey,

287
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,960
Speaker 1: didn't you know it's interesting here? You know a lot

288
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: of we get the jobs number of jobless claims again

289
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,560
Speaker 1: this morning. You know another staggering number six point six

290
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: million people that you know, cumulatively about sixteen or seventeen

291
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: million people over the last three weeks. What can recently

292
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 1: downsize employees do to maybe try to secure a new

293
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 1: job quickly given all the uncertainty that's out there. Yeah,

294
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 1: I think one of the first things for people to

295
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: focus on is making sure their skills are up to date.

296
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,800
Speaker 1: This is a great opportunity for reskilling or brushing up

297
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 1: on knowledge of tools and technology that really are required

298
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 1: both for the digital economy that just exists today, as

299
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 1: well as for working remotely. The second thing that people

300
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 1: can do is coming onto online work platforms like a

301
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,199
Speaker 1: work assembling a really detailed profile that showcases what they

302
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,479
Speaker 1: can do, an examples and testimonials from past clients or

303
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,399
Speaker 1: employers of of how great their skills are. And then finally,

304
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 1: I'd say, as they reach out to perspective future clients,

305
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: really be tailored and how they approach those clients and

306
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: and address the specific needs that clients have outlined in

307
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 1: a scope of work or a post in that they've made,

308
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,880
Speaker 1: so that the it's clear that the worker has really

309
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 1: thought through and is ready to commit to those specific

310
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: needs of the client, not just kind of is generally

311
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 1: skilled in the area. Taking a step back, I'm wondering

312
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 1: how much hiring there's actually going on right now, given

313
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 1: the fact that we talk so much about the actual

314
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,440
Speaker 1: jobless claims that are blowing all historical precedents out of

315
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: the water. Yeah, I think it's really kind of two

316
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 1: different stories out there today. You know, there are sectors

317
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,439
Speaker 1: of the economy that essentially are frozen and hiring and

318
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 1: so much activity has come to a screeching hope. But

319
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 1: then what we're seeing is a lot of businesses they're

320
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 1: just really working on business continuity and they still are

321
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,640
Speaker 1: moving forward. They are hiring, they are trying to get

322
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: work done, and they're just trying to figure out how

323
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 1: to do it in this new context and frankly figuring

324
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: out that a lot of the traditional ways that they were,

325
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 1: for example, hiring traditional staff just aren't working in a

326
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 1: world where we're you know, sheltering in place, and that

327
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 1: the changes have been so rapid, and so I think

328
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: a lot of businesses there is light in the edge

329
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: and at the end of the tunnel for them, but

330
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 1: they're just having to adapt to new channels to find

331
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 1: talented individuals outside of kind of the normal ways that

332
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: they've done that. So, Hayden, what is your sense, you know,

333
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: we we've seen these historic numbers, as Lisa's just referencing,

334
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 1: what is your sense of how this labor market might

335
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: play out over the next you know, year or so.

336
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 1: It's obviously gonna be really ugly here. We're going to

337
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,880
Speaker 1: get unemployment, you know, some numbers for suggesting today maybe

338
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,959
Speaker 1: as high as fifteen percent. But do you think it's

339
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: going to play out over time? It definitely as hard

340
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 1: to say where this is going to go, and we

341
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: don't feel like we're at the bottom yet, so it's

342
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 1: going to be a rough couple of quarters. I think

343
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 1: been back. Some of the trends that we're watching are

344
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 1: really around the freelancing trend in America, which has been

345
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 1: a big trend on the rise. More than fifty seven

346
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 1: million Americans were freelancing last year, contributing over a trillion

347
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: dollars to the economy. So I think in this time

348
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: of crisis, people are increasingly turning to alternative where they

349
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: can drive income through freelancing, either part time or full time,

350
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to make ends work ends meet,

351
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 1: and I think we'll see that trend continue to be

352
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 1: both accelerated by the crisis and kind of endure even

353
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: after things start to recover. It's interesting that that you

354
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: talk about freelancers because people have been talked about the

355
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: gig economy and how people who are in that area

356
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 1: have suffered disproportionately because their income has been cut off

357
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: that much faster. Do you expect it to actually come

358
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: back online that much more quickly, or perhaps even before

359
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 1: the shutdowns end, just because jobs are so much more

360
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: fungible and flexible on in an online world. Absolutely, So,

361
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: I think that people will realize that they need to

362
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: be very cautious about a lot of their hiring and

363
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: we'll look to freelancers as an alternative where they can

364
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 1: get really skilled talent and not have the same level

365
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 1: of long term commitment. Frankly, uh. And they're going to

366
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 1: realize also that this is a great way that they

367
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: can tap into skilled people that actually are not in

368
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: their own backyards, and they can find freelancers across the country,

369
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: across the globe who can help fill a lot of

370
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: the skills gap that they have been facing even before

371
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: this crisis. And it certainly is going to continue to

372
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: increase as they work to evolve into even more digitally

373
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: oriented businesses and workplaces. So I think that the freelancing

374
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: trend is definitely going to continue to accelerate and we'll

375
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: rebound even more quickly once the recovery starts happening. Heyden,

376
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: where just give us a sense of where corporate America

377
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: is in terms of working from home? I know, you know,

378
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: certain companies really embrace it, a lot of other companies

379
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 1: not so much. Kind of where do you think we are?

380
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's going to play out given what

381
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 1: we're experiencing right right here. I think all what we're

382
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: seeing from our customers is everyone is scrambling to figure

383
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: out how they can obviously work from home more successfully.

384
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: And we're trying to help them because we've been actually

385
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 1: doing work from home for twenty years inside of our

386
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: own company as well as running the largest online platform

387
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: that lets people work from home. So uh, clients are

388
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: reaching out to us right now and asking questions about

389
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: how they can expand the types of work that gets

390
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: done working from home, even if they had previously you know,

391
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 1: smaller populations of employees or freelancers doing this kind of model.

392
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: And so with that appetite and when I think a

393
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts to business continuity even outside of this

394
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: specific crisis, a lot of the companies are talking to

395
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: us about how do we create more of these flexible

396
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: talent benches that help us maintain continuity even in situations

397
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: where people have to work from home in mass and

398
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: that's I think going to be something they care about

399
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: again well after this current crisis passes. Haydon Brown, thank

400
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us to really appreciate your

401
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: thoughts on this whole working from home concept which is

402
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: now being embraced by many many U S workers. Haydon Brown,

403
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: she's the CEO of up Work, giving us her thoughts

404
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: on kind of some of those jobless numbers, Lisa, and

405
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: that's growing, growing UH evalence of people working from home,

406
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: and now it's being forced on a lot of people,

407
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: it's being forced on a lot of UH companies, and

408
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: I think everybody's trying to adapt and he's trying to

409
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 1: optimize the situation. Well, as we've been talking about, the

410
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve stepped up once again with a very aggressive

411
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: financing package, liquidity package for the marketplace two point three

412
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: trillion dollars. We can't say the same about Congress. Is

413
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,479
Speaker 1: commerce goes back and forth on a set another fiscal

414
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: stimulus plan, back and forth that Democrats Republicans really at

415
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: odds today not able to move that forward. To get

416
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,719
Speaker 1: the latest, we welcome Billy House. He's a coggressional reporter

417
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg News. So, Billy, what's the latest on this

418
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: latest round? Is A two billion? Is five billion? Where

419
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: are we? Well? That just happened in the last half

420
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 1: hour that Senate UH could not come in agreement on

421
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: which one to do. UH. Democrats would not go along

422
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: with expedited approval of Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leaders.

423
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: Two billion our version that's reflective of Treasury sectory of

424
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: Nutin's proposal. Instead, Democrats want twice as much. They want

425
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: more money for at additional aid for state and local

426
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: governments and hospitals and other matters, not just small businesses.

427
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 1: Billy taking a step back. We've been talking a lot

428
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: about the Federal Reserve's response, and some people have been

429
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: drawing parallels or perhaps contrasts with Congress and how they've

430
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: acted and how they've been a lot slower. What's the

431
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: sort of consensus on whether they've acted quickly or whether

432
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: they've been behind the eight ball. Well, I mean, when

433
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: you look back two weeks ago at the massive two

434
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: trillion dollar stimulus bill, you don't have to give them,

435
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: I guess, credit for acting swiftly on that, even though

436
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: in just a matter of days from it being proposed

437
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: to pass by both chambers and then signed by the President.

438
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: There were some wrinkles in between, but that was very

439
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: swift and that was within a week. Uh, they didn't

440
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: pivoted to winning a larger infrastructure package, but and realized

441
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: they needed this added stimulus boost for small businesses and

442
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: were to do something quickly on that. But now they

443
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: hit this sprinkle, and it appears that nothing's going to

444
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: be resolved till next week. So I got you gotta

445
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: give mixed marks. At the same time, the Fed today

446
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: may have given them a little breathing room with the

447
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: actions they took on helping small businesses. So, Billy, is

448
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: the sense that you know it really assistant question of

449
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: to or is there other issues involved there as well?

450
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: There's issues on how that aid would actually work within

451
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: the programs for instances. For instance, Democrats want more tailored

452
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: UH directives to minority owned businesses, women owned businesses UH,

453
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: and in their bill they would actually classify farms also

454
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: as a small business that had been uncertain. So I

455
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: mean there are more distinct directives within the language and

456
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: the Democratic bill in the Republican bill, Billy. There's also

457
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: a question about the existing legislation that you mentioned. It's

458
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: been passed a two trillion dollar bill. A lot of

459
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: people did say they moved quickly. However, there have been

460
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: a series of stories throughout a variety of different news

461
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: channels talking about the kinks in the system, the fact

462
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: that banks have been reluctant to lend out to companies

463
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: they don't have prior relationships with or without more better

464
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: guidance as far as how to get those loans back stopped.

465
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: What's the latest in rolling that out? And that's that's

466
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: exactly what the Democrats were saying on the Senate floor today.

467
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: There were a couple of most of the lawmakers in

468
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: Washington are not in town. Thanks for listening to the

469
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen

470
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

471
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa

472
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: abram Woy. It's I'm on Twitter at Lisa A. Bramwoits

473
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: one before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide

474
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio.