1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is My name 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: is Noel. I am. Then you argue and that makes 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. This podcast 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: has been a long time coming. Why don't we open 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: up the show with first things? First? Shut up corners. Okay, 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: it's shout out corner today. We'd like to start out 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: with a shout out to Tom's sort Aden and everyone 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: else listening in Norway. Wow. Yes, and uh, we have 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 1: a phrase here that I watched a YouTube video on 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: and how to say it correctly? Um, here we go, 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: Hi vordin gorda. Hopefully that's at least somewhere at least 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: one of the three of us pronounced it correctly, and 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: with our three pronunciation skills combined, maybe it made you 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: know some kind of sense. I think it's supposed to 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: be said at least three times faster than that, But 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't, I don't know how to do that. 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: We sounded like a very drunken person trying to speak 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: Norwegian shout out to you. Tom, Who's next, We've got 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: Nate Clump and Nate, you're probably working on a bike 23 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: right now while you're listening to this, and we can 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: only hope that this is the easiest fix that you're 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: gonna have all day and you get a little time 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: to go do something for yourself. Consider it, you know. 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: I mean some people they like the long processes so 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: they can listen to more podcasts. Oh yeah, you're right. 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: I hope that the current bike that you're working on 30 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: is the hardest job you've ever done, so you can 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: finish this podcast and they end right, they end together, 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: just perfect, because that is very satisfying. It's like when 33 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: you pull up to your house and that NPR story 34 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: and you don't have to have that, you know. It's 35 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: like when you walk to the microwave and then it 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: stops right as you get, right as you approach it. 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Am I the only person who pretends them diffusing a 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: bomb at the last second When I stopped a microwave. 39 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: I always like to open the door with only a 40 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: single second remaining. That's just like a no C D 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: Thing's and our final shout out for today's shout Out 42 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Corner goes to Marie ferminjured, I hope you're saying that correctly, 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: and her mom Sabrina, we had a question about this, 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: right mat Yeah, Marie, we're wondering are you really five 45 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: years old? Or is there something you don't want us 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: or your mom to know. Yes, shout out to you, Marie, 47 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: and we hope you enjoy the food that your mom 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: has prepared for you. We we assume that it is 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: most nutritious and delicious. And with this we end our 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: shout Out Corners. And that brings us to today's episode 51 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: of We're traveling from the Shout Out Corner across the globe, 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: taking you with us to the Upper Peninsula or the 53 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: lower Peninsula. No, to Michigan, to Michigan just by the 54 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: Great Lakes, which is weird because Michigan, if you look 55 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: at it as a child, I can see how it 56 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: would be very confusing to anyone to say, why is 57 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: that one state? Yeah, most of what I know about 58 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: Michigan has come from two places. One the wonderful Sufian 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: Stephen's record Michigan, which is where he grew up. And 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: if you want to hear a really excellent epic sweeping 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: orchestral piece of music. That's a good place to start, 62 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: and every song has kind of like personifies a different 63 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: part of Michigan. That's where I learned about the Upper 64 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: Peninsula and all that UM. And then the second place 65 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: I learned about it, which is very pertinent to our 66 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: topic today, was the movie Roger and Me, which was 67 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: Michael Moore's first documentary where he who you know, he 68 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: grew up in Michigan Flint as well UM, and he 69 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: pursues the then CEO of the General Motors Company, Roger Smith, 70 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: to bring him take him to task for UM shutting 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: down all of the manufacturing facilities in Flint, which was 72 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: the heart of that city's economy, and it just, you know, 73 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: plummeted the city and its residents into poverty, and a 74 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: lot of the issues that we're talking about today likely 75 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: began back then in terms of infrastructure and things not 76 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: being you know, looked after sure, as the money just 77 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: wasn't coming in anymore to the to the counties, into 78 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: the city, which is an unfortunate story in a country 79 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: where the manufacturing base was being off shore at such 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: a precipitous rate for a time. Yeah, that you have 81 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: family in Michigan. Yeah, I have family the A couple 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: of them live right outside of Detroit. I think they're 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: on the northern side of Detroit, but I'm not exactly positive. 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: And then I've got a whole another section that live 85 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 1: just north of Flint, so basically north and south of Flint, 86 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: so roughly twenty miles on one side, forty or so 87 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: miles on the other side. So they I spoke to 88 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: them this week actually, right before we're recording this, just 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: to kind of get some idea of what they're seeing, 90 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: if anything there, and both said that they haven't seen 91 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: really any effects. They didn't even learn about it until 92 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow talked about it on her show. So how 93 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: far how far outside of Flint are they? Twenty miles 94 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: north and then I think, I don't know exactly, but 95 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: closer to Detroit on the south. It's a different water system, Yeah, 96 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: completely different water system, and they don't know a lot 97 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: of people personally. One thing that my cousin said is 98 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: that Flint is such a place where you don't really 99 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: go to Flint if you're not from Flint. It's which 100 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: is a kind of a sad thing. Um, but when 101 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: you live in that community. You just live in that community. 102 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: And if you don't, you don't write not a big 103 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: tourist space. You're saying, sure, yeah for anything. Well, one 104 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: thing that Flint, Michigan has, unfortunately in common with many 105 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: other cities across the US, and this will be a 106 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: US centric podcast, one thing that all these cities have 107 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: in common is a terrifyingly bad infrastructure situation. For quite 108 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: a few people, in the post World War two era, 109 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: the United States was seen as the shining beacon of success, 110 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: despite of course, the enormous internal problems the country had 111 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: with discrimination, prejudice on gender and ethnicity and creed and religion. 112 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: The thing was there was it was a booming economy 113 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: where someone could have what today would be seen as 114 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: maybe a minimum wage job, but still afforda house, maybe 115 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: one spouse stays at home, afford to raised kids. And 116 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: one other thing that was amazing was this infrastructure. The 117 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: fact that unlike so many other countries, you could hop 118 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: into the car that you bought probably was still an 119 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: ownership society back then, and you could just drive from 120 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: one coast to the other and then back right. No 121 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: border controls unless you you know, you go to Mexico 122 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: or Canada, and there's this huge nation with these great roads, 123 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: and that is no longer the case. In recent years, 124 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: this thing has, this infrastructure thing has declined dramatically. According 125 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: to the American Society of Civil Engineers, people who are 126 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: paid just to look at this stuff, one and nine 127 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: of the bridges in the US was rated structurally deficient 128 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: as and that gave the bridges a score of a 129 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: C plus, which is actually one of the better scores 130 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: that the United States infrastructure got. Yeah, that's the worst 131 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: part relative to other parts of the US infrastructure that's 132 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: relatively good. They have a we have a quote from 133 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: them that the a s C said at the time, quote, 134 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: our infrastructure systems are failing to keep pace with the 135 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: current and expanding needs and investment and infrastructure is faltering. 136 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: And there are signs of hope. The a s c 137 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: s report card that they issued gave a slightly improved 138 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: grade to infrastructure overall compared to two thousand and nine. 139 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: But that's here's the problem. It's not just a road 140 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: or a bridge, you know, it's something that politically is 141 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: difficult for to get people to vote for. No one 142 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: wants to pay attacks for something like that, until you know, 143 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: the hurricane hits and the levies break or the bridge collapses, 144 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: and then everyone's looking to point fingers in place blame, right, 145 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: why didn't you do this? Why didn't you Why didn't 146 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: you make us vote the way you wanted has to vote? 147 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: I mean, and it makes sense because it is unpopular 148 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: when it comes to getting the job done. No one 149 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: wants a lane of of you know, busy intersection closed off. 150 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: No one wants to be late to work because there's 151 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, work being done on the you know, the 152 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: road they drive on. No one wants to you know, 153 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: have their street dug up and pipes you know, ripped out, 154 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: and you know, and we're moving on, obviously to you 155 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: know the big subjective today, which is water systems. And 156 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, you got to think about these systems that 157 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: were in place, you know, just long, long ago, and 158 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: we've had to kind of just keep repairing and patching 159 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: and fixing these things little by little, because can you 160 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: imagine what it would take to just put up let's 161 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: just put a whole new water system into our you know, 162 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: metropolitan city, right, especially when we consider how funding arrives 163 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: those things, we won't get too, won't get too bogged 164 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: down in those details, but just for just for some perspective, 165 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: the the Infrastructure report Card that we're mentioning projects that water, 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: the funding we need to safely restructure the US water 167 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: system is gonna total out to a hundred and twenty 168 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: six billion. We have forty two billion of that and 169 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: these are two thousand ten dollars, so appreciate the inflation there, 170 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: and that means that the Uncle SAM is eighty four 171 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: billion dollars short. On an unpopular thing. At the dawn 172 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: of the twenty one century, most of our drinking much 173 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: of our drinking water infrastructure is nearing the end of 174 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: its life. These things, because you know, these things are 175 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: constantly in an eroding environment. Water is moving all the time. 176 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: A lot of this stuff is really old, back before 177 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: we understood the safety implications. So we have some good 178 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: and bad news. So there's an estimated two forty thousand 179 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: water main breaks per year in the U s alone, 180 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: assuming that every single pipe would need to be replaced, 181 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: the cost over the coming decades could reach more than 182 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: a trillion dollars. And that's according to the American water 183 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: Works Association, which is crazy, but there's good news. Yeah. Well, 184 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: the good news is that in a lot of places 185 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: in the US, the sinking water that you're going to 186 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: get from a fountain that is meant for human consumption 187 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: is pretty high. It's potable. Yeah, overall, it's pretty good stuff. 188 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: Even though the pipes and the mains that are running 189 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: underneath the city and throughout it are are pretty old, 190 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: frequently more than a hundred years old. And when they're 191 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: that old, they need replacement, especially depending on what they're 192 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: made from. Like there are some older wooden pipes that 193 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 1: still exists. There are some pipes that may or may 194 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: not contain a little bit of lead in them. Uh, 195 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: there are huge issues with that. And this is because 196 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: the water is treated, right, I mean it right, the water. 197 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: The water treatment system is one of the biggest parts. 198 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: And the good thing about this is that getting sick 199 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: from drinking the water is a pretty rare thing in 200 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: this country. Right. That's where we're gonna that's That's a 201 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: great way to set up this point because for quite 202 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: a few people in the US, traveling to another country 203 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: is is difficult and it's expensive. You know, they're they're 204 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: two oceans on either side, and as a result. Sometimes 205 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: in the international community, people who live in this country 206 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: are accused of not having an entirely realistic understanding of 207 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: how how stuff works, although I hate to say it 208 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: that way, in other in other parts of the world. 209 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: And with that being said, you know, one one of 210 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: the things that I think escapes a lot of people 211 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: is just how profoundly important safe water is to any civilization. 212 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: You know, there are places around the world where you're 213 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: just not gonna drink the water. And it's not it's 214 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: not because you are not acclimated to bacteria or whatever 215 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: is in there. It's because no one can drink the water. 216 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: And this this sort of sanitation is a huge deal, 217 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: and we are conscious of that, folks. But we are 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: also conscious of the increasingly deteriorating system in here in 219 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: the US. So we have examples for you. In October 220 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: two twelve, her Acane sandy not large coastal sewage plants 221 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: offline and caused nearly forty two million cubic meters that's 222 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: eleven billion gallons of sewage to go into the water supply. Ah, 223 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: what do you do from from you know, can you 224 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: imagine being the people tasked to fix that? All right? Guys, 225 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: let's pump this out of here. Well, it's water, and 226 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: now it's just got sewage in it. Huh. In January, 227 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: a storage tank in West Virginia that held the chemical 228 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: used in coal production leaked into the Elk River and 229 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: it's spilled an estimated forty cubic meters, which is ten 230 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: thousand gallons, just upstream of the water intake for Charleston, 231 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: the state capital there. Now here's the problem. Almost three 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were without tap water for at least 233 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: four days when that happened. Now you have to think 234 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: I've been without I think you guys may have gone 235 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: through this. Here in Atlanta somewhere, we've been without tap 236 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: order for a few days because of some small thing 237 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: or a main leak or something like that. It's crazy 238 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: how much of a wrench it throws into your world 239 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: when you don't have running potable water. Actually, in my 240 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: hometown in Augusta, Georgia and North Augusta, which is the 241 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: on the border of Georgia and South Carolina, but it's 242 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: like right over the bridge, they're really closely on one another. 243 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: Um they have been having all these boil advisories lately, 244 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: and they haven't quite determined what the problem is, and 245 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: they keeps coming up. It's very strange. And I mean 246 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: even just think about that, just like adding that step 247 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: having to boil your water and then when you got 248 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: to cool it again, I guess you can ice it 249 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: or would you wait to leave it out and put 250 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: it in the fridge. I don't know what. And it 251 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: just seems like a whole you know. Or do you 252 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: go out and you buy privatized water from someplace in 253 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: a in a jug or in and it's not cheap, 254 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: so I don't know, it's it's crazy. So one of 255 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: the big points that we're obviously making here, folks, is 256 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: that while the situation in Flint, Michigan may have been 257 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: one of the first to really garner national attention, it's 258 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: not really unique. It's not especially exceptional in terms of 259 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: uh substandard infrastructure. These kind of these kind of breaks 260 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: are happening in in the modern age. This is not 261 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: necessarily an isolated incident. And we're going to dive into, 262 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: maybe that's a poor choice of words, the situation in Flint, Michigan. 263 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor, and we're back. We're 264 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: back in Michigan, we're back in Flint, Michigan, specifically where 265 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: things started to go wrong in recent months. You have 266 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: no doubt heard about the crisis with lead contamination in 267 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: the city of Flint, Michigan. We have a little bit 268 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: of a timeline that can walk you through here. In 269 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, Michigan takes over the Flint budget. They 270 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: take over the town's budget because there were years of 271 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: rampant poverty spurred in part by the loss of auto manufacturing. 272 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: Like you mentioned earlier, no Flint is in a financial 273 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: state of emergency. Michigan takes over and when they take over, 274 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: the governor at the time, Rick Snyder, appoints an emergency 275 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: financial manager. And this manager was, according to a congressman 276 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: named Dan Kildee, this manager was hired to do one thing. 277 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: I'll actually read the quote. You had one job, man, 278 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: one job. Simply do one thing and one thing only, 279 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: and that's cut the budget at any cost. Yikes. So 280 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: one option for a budget cutting thing is to stop 281 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: paying Detroit for that Sweet Lake Huron water and start 282 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: using water from the Flint River because that's safe, right, 283 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: And so they do a study. This is all the 284 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven the study finds that for Flint River 285 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: water to be considered drinkable, it would need to be 286 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: treated with an anti corrosion agent, and water treatment will 287 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: cost the state about a hundred dollars a day. Adding 288 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: this treatment, by the way, in retrospect, would have present 289 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: prevented of the town's later problems. So these complaints are 290 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: mounting over the years. Let's let's fast forward to a 291 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: little bit more recently. In two thousand fourteen April, Flint 292 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: officials to combat these rumors about just how terrible water 293 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,239 Speaker 1: is in Flint, they publicly drink the river water in 294 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: front of the media. Yeah, the mayor right right, yes, okay, 295 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: So at this point the Mayor's drink the water on television. 296 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: Everyone's you know, maybe not everyone, but it looks like 297 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay. We're gonna switch over to the 298 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: Flint River. We're running it through a treatment plant. It's 299 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: gonna be okay. So in April, work team that happens. Now, 300 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: this is meant to be just a temporary solution, right, 301 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: This isn't there. The idea isn't to stay on the 302 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: Flint River water forever. I mean, are they trying? How 303 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: how are they going to raise the money to pay Detroit. Yeah, 304 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: this is just a budget cutting move. If it's a 305 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: budget cutting move. So eventually they're going to get the 306 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: water from Huron. From Lake Huron, which they're right next to. 307 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: I mean it's not right next to it, it's not 308 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: far away. So they're thinking maybe two years they can 309 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: make a state runs supply line. Problem is that in 310 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: comparison to Lake Huron's water, h Virginia Tech researchers find 311 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: that Flint River, the Flint River water supply is nineteen 312 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: times more corrosive. So then in May is when the discolored, 313 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 1: bad tasting, bad smelling water starts actually making its way 314 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: into Flint residents homes via their their faucets. This stuff 315 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: is brown, Yeah, this stuff is objectively brown. This stuff 316 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: looks like soup and not not you know, not a 317 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: good soup, none, a nice biscu or something. And it's 318 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: not one of those things where maybe there's a little 319 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: junk in the system where you turn on your faucet 320 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: if you haven't turned it on in a long time, 321 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: and it kind of goes out and then you get 322 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: the nice water. You can get a little bit of 323 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: rust or something like that, and then it clears out, No, 324 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: it's not like that. But not to mention the fact 325 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: that the city officials continue telling the residents it's fine, Okay, 326 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: it's fine, attention to the soup in the water, go well, 327 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: And and then there are there are large swasters of 328 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: the population that have to continue using this water because 329 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: they cannot afford to have another water source, at least 330 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: in some way. Well, there's not another water source. They'd 331 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: have to buy bottle That's what I'm saying. So they 332 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: don't have they don't have the means to go out 333 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: and buy bottled water. So we're talking like not even 334 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: a boil advisory and into place at this stage. No, 335 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: the water, the water is fine. None is the party line. 336 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: In January twelve of two thousand and fifteen, to try 337 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: E steps in to offer help, notably their water and 338 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: Sewage department says Flint people of Flint financial tycoon or 339 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: tyrant of Flint. We will reconnect the water supply and 340 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: wave the connection fee, which was four million dollars at 341 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: least per the Governor's Office of Detroit. But what happens next? 342 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: Remember that emergency manager Jerry Ambrose, Yeah, he said no, 343 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: we're good guys. And and he was just talking about 344 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: the additional costs that would be involved if they wanted 345 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: to take that water from Detroit. And I think they 346 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: were looking at around a million dollars a month or 347 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: something like that. Um And they're also saying the city 348 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: itself doesn't have a connection directly to that Detroit system, 349 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: since that that was I guess sold by Flint as 350 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: part of some some deal that they were making with 351 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: another county right exactly to Genesee County. I believe it's 352 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: called so there they are in at this point, I 353 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: want to say, I don't want to demonize Ambrose too 354 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: much because it's got to be a tough thing. There's 355 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: no money. They're asking you to spend straw into gold. 356 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: They're asking you to make soup from rocks. And you 357 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: should have listened to our alchemy episode. He should have. Yeah, 358 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: he should listen to the Alchemy episode. He would have 359 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: learned something. That's when the e p A starts talking 360 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 1: about lead. Uh. The e p A and Michigan's Department 361 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: of Environmental Quality say, hey, there's a there's a lot 362 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: of lead in here. There's an unhealthy amount of lead. 363 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: A dangerous amount of lead. And that's in February, a 364 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: little more than a year ago. So then in July, 365 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: there is an internal memo in the e P a 366 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: Vironal Protection Agency that gets leaked, and this memo shows 367 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: the high levels of lead in a particular case, one 368 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: woman's home, high enough that her son actually got lead poisoning. 369 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: And this is according to Michigan Radio dot org um 370 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: and the site also said that the memo was leaked 371 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: by the a c l U who actually reached out 372 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: contacted the person who wrote the memo. At this point, 373 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: of course, the party line is still the water is fine. 374 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: The water is fine, folks, water is fine. What do 375 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: you want it to be gluten free? What do you ask? 376 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: Then I think it was the regional EPA manager who 377 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: came forward and said, and look, you guys, it's too 378 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: it's too early to make any conclusions, especially based on 379 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: this one memo. So we're just gonna continue continuing on 380 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: right exactly. So then let's go to August of Virginia, 381 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: tech researchers launched their own investigation and they find, uh, 382 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: they find these elevated levels of lead as well, and 383 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: they go public. Then in September of that same year, 384 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: the Department of Environmental Quality looked at the research Virginia 385 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: was doing and disputed the claims about corrosion and uh 386 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: lead poisoning or leaching, at least specifically. And then there's 387 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: actually a pediatrician, Dr. Mona Hanna, a Tisha who is 388 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: seeing these elevated levels of lead and children from certain 389 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: parts of Flint seeing them double triple uh. And here's 390 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: a quote from a very helpful CNN dot com timeline 391 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: that we are pulling from a lot of these details. 392 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: Uh quote. When my research team and I saw that 393 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: it was getting into children, and when we knew the consequences, 394 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: that's when I think we began not to sleep. Jeez. 395 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: So in October of twenty fifteen, the governor at the 396 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: time announces a plan to reconnect Flint to Detroit's water. 397 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: Flint's water switches back to Lake Huron. However, by then, 398 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: the corrosion, that's that's the issue. So the pipes are 399 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: old and the pipes are lead pipes. That was not 400 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: as much of a problem when there was a less 401 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: corrosive water source, given that the Flint River was so 402 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: much more corrosive than Lake huron. What they find is 403 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: that they're still going to be elevated levels of lead. So, 404 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: in other words, because of the higher corrosiveness of the 405 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: water in the more polluted water source, which was the 406 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: Flint River, it's causing the lead in the pipes to 407 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: actually leach into the water itself to come detached. It 408 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: could be the cleanest water ever that flows through it 409 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: now and it doesn't matter. You're gonna have some some issues, 410 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: yeah exactly. But you know, if you're using this uh, 411 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: more polluted water that has different, you know, materials in 412 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: it that could that could accelerate this process, that's when 413 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 1: things become pretty dire. At this point, you know, a 414 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: lot of the there's really no turning back. I mean, 415 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: it's very very difficult to reverse what damage has already 416 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: been done. And these Virginia Tech researchers actually continue to 417 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: find elevated lead in Flint water, even though they're at 418 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: lower levels, but they are it's still much higher than 419 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: they should be. The next month, the federal lawsuit is 420 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: filed by the residents of Flint, Michigan. They filed the 421 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: lawsuit against the governor, the state, UH, the city, and 422 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: several other defendants they say that the Department of Environmental 423 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: Quality was not, in fact treating flint water with an 424 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: anti corrosive agent. That's a violation of federal law. This 425 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: means that, as Nolan I point out earlier, the water 426 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: was eroding, the iron water mains turning at brown. About 427 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: half of the lines to Flint homes are made of lead. 428 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: And this this is exactly what happened. That's our that's 429 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: our sequence of events. That's what they allege in the lawsuit. 430 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, this doesn't happen all the time 431 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 1: in lawsuits, of course, but it turns out that they 432 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: were telling the truth. Uh. The chief of the Department 433 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: of Environmental Quality quits December. So these things happen, and 434 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: just month after month. Then as we get to sixteen, 435 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: the governor reached out for the federal Emergency Management Agencies, 436 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: helped FEMA, her good old friends at FEMA, and UM 437 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: even of activating the Michigan National Guard to actually help 438 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: get water, bottled water to people who were in need. 439 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: And to me, the most mind boggling element of all 440 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: of this is that there were multiple points along this 441 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: process where they could have started to to mitigate some 442 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: of these problems, but instead all you see is Nope, 443 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: it's all good. We didn't do anything wrong. Everything's fine. 444 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's all about just defending that initial decision, 445 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: that cost cutting decision to change the water source. Because 446 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: in politics, you know, somebody wants to get a pat 447 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: on the back for saving some money and doing the 448 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: right thing politically speaking, not necessarily, you know, for the 449 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: people to Flint, and you know, I mean, I'm sure 450 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: their hearts were in the right place, but when you 451 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: realize you've made a mistake of this magnitude, you got 452 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,719 Speaker 1: to come clean. Right, So slate rights. That's our question 453 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: for today. What is the stuff they don't watch to know? 454 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: What is the cover up? What is the corruption? Is 455 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: there any? And the answer is unambiguously yes, yes. Uh. 456 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: Michigan new last year that Flint's water might be poisoned, 457 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: but decided we'll just keep this on the hush. Let's 458 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: just keep this on the down low. You like how 459 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm going into my quiet story voice. Yeah, so jumping 460 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: around a little bit. But in uh, in January of 461 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, when as as you had said, Matt, 462 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: when Governor Snyder came clean about the dangerous levels of 463 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: lead and flint and called it a state of emergency. 464 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: It appears that a study released in September of concluded 465 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: that the change put flint children at and I'll quote here, 466 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: a significantly increased risk of lead poisoning. Before we go further, 467 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: let's talk about why lead poisoning is a big deal. 468 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 1: So lead poisoning, which also has a couple of interesting 469 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: names painters, colic and plumbism, like plumber, but plumbism. It's 470 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: it's a it's something that happens when you have increased 471 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: amounts of lead in your body. Lead interferes with a 472 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: lot of the processes that our bodies depend on, and 473 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: it can damage your heartbones and testines, kidneys, your reproductive 474 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: your nervous system. It's all kinds of bad news. Here's 475 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: one of the big things. It's very, very dangerous to 476 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: expose children to this. Children of vulnerable because their nervous 477 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: systems are still developing. So studies show that it can 478 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: cause significant learning disorders that are permanent, as well as 479 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: behavioral disorders. In severe cases, it can cause seizures, and 480 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: in the worst case, it can cause death. So for 481 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: this kind of exposure, what we're hearing is permanent damage 482 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: done due to a cover up. Essentially, it seems to show, 483 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: also according to the a c l U, that the 484 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: Department of Environmental Quality rigged test results in the water 485 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: in the summer of after reports about problems had already 486 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: been published. They cite the work of the Virginia Tech 487 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: folks were mentioned, who were headed by a guy named 488 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: Mark Edwards, an engineering professor who studied flint closely. So 489 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: according to uh Dr Edwards, the city officials broke federal 490 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: laws by failing to collect water samples from homes at 491 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: the highest risk, and they also failed to conduct follow 492 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: up tests as required on homes that had high levels, 493 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 1: and the d e Q, the Department of Environmental Quality 494 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: officials who are supervising this, according to Dr Edwards, made 495 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: a move to reject two samples collective by the city. 496 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: Samples that as just maybe there is a coincidence, would 497 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: have pushed the test results above a level the city 498 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: was a prior to alert residents. So it seems that 499 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: it seems that management already knew, for lack of a 500 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: better word, and cooperated with one another two cover this 501 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: up or to delay the release of the news. What 502 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: this all means is that um oh, and there's not 503 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: an emergency manager now that ended in April. But what 504 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: this all means is that this could potentially be a 505 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: criminal case. And I wanted to ask you guys, who, yeah, 506 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: should someone be prosecuted who? I mean? I would say 507 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: it would be the guy that that resigned the d 508 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: e Q and the e P a regional aspect. But 509 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: it's so tricky because I mean, you have to prove 510 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: at what stage they knew, you know, that they were 511 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: not acting in good faith, that they were literally acting 512 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: outside of the scope of their job and obfuscating you know, facts, 513 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: I mean, And that's that's really hard to prove, isn't it. 514 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: You know, It's strange because we do function in a 515 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: court of public opinions so often nowadays. But for it 516 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: to be rule of law, there there has to be 517 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: a provable trail, approvable paper trail, audio conversations. I guess 518 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: Skype calls if anyone is still foolish enough to conduct 519 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: an important conversation on Skype, Sorry Skype, but you know 520 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: the deal, I would yeah, because most of the people 521 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: who made incorrect decisions here probably had no idea that 522 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: what they were doing was going to lead to a 523 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: domino effect to where in the end children are getting 524 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: lead poisoning, a pretty heavy lead poisoning. Right. They probably 525 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: thought they were making small, small level decisions to save money. 526 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: If not, cutting corner is a bit right at least, 527 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,239 Speaker 1: that's what in my opinion, that's what I'm seeing. And 528 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: it's a it's a really difficult situation because we know that, 529 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, Flint being one of the most um financially, 530 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, distraught areas in Michigan, which as a state 531 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: has some real serious problems. I mean Detroit, you know, 532 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: declared bankruptcy and they're only just now really starting to 533 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: rebuild and pull themselves out of that after all these 534 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: worries they were going to have to sell off the 535 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: contents of their art museum and you know, things like 536 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: that is to stay afloat. And as we know, Flint 537 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: has a real history of dealing with these issues ever 538 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: since Roger and Me, which was in nine nine, um, 539 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: that is when they lost a lot of their manufacturing jobs. 540 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure I have a feeling that some 541 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: of that could have come back, but you know, you know, 542 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,959 Speaker 1: it's never the same, and we know Flint has been 543 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: having these kinds of problems for a long time. And 544 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: for you know, to be a member of the government 545 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: in a city like this where you're you know, Hamstrong, 546 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: with lack of funds, lack of you know, really power, 547 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: having to defer to you know, Detroit and say help us. 548 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very difficult situation to find yourself. 549 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: And I do not envy any of those people. And 550 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you gotta make hard decisions and sometimes 551 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: you mess up. But if they we're covering their own 552 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, Tucases took us as trying to protect their 553 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: own jobs, to pick their own jobs, you know, which 554 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: compared to some of the folks that this really affected, 555 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: pretty cushy. You know. I'm glad you bring up that point, 556 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: because this takes us beyond Flint. This is the this 557 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: is the larger stuff they don't want you to know. 558 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: For today's episodes. There's an amazing book written called Lead 559 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: Wars by authors David Rosner and a guy named Gerald 560 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: Marc A. Witz. And in Lead Wars they note that, yes, 561 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: Flint's problems are being addressed. It's in the national media now. However, 562 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: they're not Flint has highlighted the problems with lead in pipes. 563 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: There's a bigger thing. Lead is a neurotoxin, and it 564 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: can be found on walls, in the soil, in the air, 565 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: and even a small exposure can again impair brain development. 566 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: It can cause hyperactivity, dyslexia, a d d i Q loss. 567 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: So when we talked about how far back we knew 568 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: lead was bad for you, Rosina argues that it goes 569 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen tens, in the nineteen twenties when 570 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: doctors were documenting children who had lead on their fingers 571 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: as a dust and put their hands in their mouth 572 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: and began going into seizures. Don't need a lot of 573 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: this stuff. But the average can of paint from the 574 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties to nineteen fifty contained like lead carbonate, which 575 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: is so and it's all it's slap dashed all over 576 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: the walls of older places. There were advertising things that 577 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: said lead as much cleaner than wallpay paper, like how 578 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: slick it is use lead. Uh. There was even a 579 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: scandal in d C about lead and drinking. And it's 580 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: tough for us to predict how far this will go. 581 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: We do know that it over like that. It it 582 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: tends to affect people in disadvantage communities minorities more than 583 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: it affects other parts of the population. I mean, and 584 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: there are safeguards in place, like I know, for example, 585 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: when I bought my home um several years ago, they 586 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: have to disclose you know that because of the age 587 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: of the home, that that's possible that lead paint was used, 588 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: and then you have to do things to ensure that 589 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: there's no lead paint remaining. I mean, you know that's 590 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: up to you, I guess, but they let you know that, hey, 591 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: there's as possible as lead paint here. It reminds me 592 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: of you know, the high school that I went to. 593 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: There was a whole period where they realized, oh, there's 594 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: a lot of s best us still in this building 595 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: and it was a huge deal or they had to 596 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: like bring in these crews and pull this stuff out. 597 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: But like you said, I mean a lot of these 598 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: these folks are renting. You know, maybe their landlords haven't 599 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: taken the steps to do some of these things, or 600 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: maybe they got around it somehow. What what Rosner Markowitz 601 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: said that I recommend highly this interview they did with 602 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: MPR and the book itself. They found an active conspiracy 603 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: by the lead industry. And I know it might sound 604 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: ridiculous for me to say big lead, but that's exactly 605 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: what it was. That that was similar to, uh, some 606 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: of the stuff the tobacco industry did. When the carcinogenic 607 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: effects of cigarettes and dip and all this other stuff 608 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: came to light, the lead industry went around the country 609 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: saying telling doctors, yeah, having completely proved the lead is 610 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: the cause of children going into convulsions and kids dying, 611 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: so you need to do some more sophisticated studies. You 612 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: need depths, rays, you need like a variety of other 613 00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: techniques or whatever. But the problem is this led to 614 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: a vastly underestimated number of lead poisoning cases, because if 615 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: they were not recognized, it looked like maybe that a 616 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: high fever or another kind of thing. But what the 617 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: lead industry did to take this conflation of symptoms and 618 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: use it to their advantage was to say, uh, lead 619 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: poisoning was overstated and the doctors were misdiagnosing children. And 620 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: now that leads us to a situation we have today 621 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 1: where an infrastructure is in danger and where where if 622 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: something unexpected or bad happens, the results can quickly get 623 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: out of control. So listeners out there, what do you think, 624 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean, what where do you who? Where do you 625 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: think that the responsibility falls in situations like these? Um? 626 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: Are there any folks out there that are Inflint right now? 627 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: I know, Matt you said you have family there. We'd 628 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: love to hear from anyone that's experienced the stuff firsthand. Um, 629 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: because it is, like you said, ultimately a problem that's 630 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,439 Speaker 1: bigger than Flint. But Flint really puts a spotlight on 631 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: what can happen when these aged aging infrastructures go. You know, 632 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: let our left unrepaired and the continued to deteriorate. Yeah, 633 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: or are you in Cleveland and someone in your family 634 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: is dealing with lead poisoning from government housing on the 635 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: walls there from the lead paint. So let us know. 636 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: You can reach us on Twitter where we're at conspiracy 637 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: stuff on Facebook where where stuff they don't want you 638 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: to know. And if you go to that Facebook page 639 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,439 Speaker 1: you can watch us live every once in a while 640 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: on Friday's we'll we'll do a live show there. We 641 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: also are on Periscope every once in a while. You 642 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: can find us through our Twitter accounts and those are 643 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: a lot of fun because you can ask questions in 644 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: real time, and we have a lot of fun just 645 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: kind of like fielding them and we're back and forth, 646 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: and it's a really cool way to kind of hang 647 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: out with everybody, have special guests every once in a while, 648 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: and if you don't want to do any of that 649 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: stuff and you just want to talk to us, you 650 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: can send us a good old fashioned evening. We are 651 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: conspiracy at house stuff works dot com.