1 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: have a classic episode for you about IPAs. 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Yes, and I have to say, in typical Saber fashion, 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: I've forgotten we'd done this episode, and when I saw 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: your message about it, I thought you were suggesting a 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: new topic. 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: Oh freaked out. 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, Oh I don't have the capacity for 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: that right now. 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: But we've already done it. Yeah, congratulations. That was a 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: problem for past Danny. 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so so IPA's India palel beers. We did this, 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 2: And to be fair, we did this episode back in 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: October of twenty eighteen, which was a minute ago. Yes, 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: thank you, Lauren. Hey, yeah, no, just it's a true fact. 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: It's a true fact. 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: I was just I was just looking through stuff and 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: and alcohol was sort of up in the rotation, and 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: uh yeah yeah. So I was like, oh, this is 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: a good one. It goes places, it's interesting, and we 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: don't do myth busting ourselves, but there are some myths 25 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: that are busted. I think that this one. I think 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: that like late twenty eighteen was circa the height to 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: like the slight downturn of IPA's being completely unavoidable in 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: every brewery. I think it was like right before sours 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: suddenly became the unavoidable thing in every craft brewery, and 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: the hour trend has continued as of twenty twenty five. 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: This year, sours have had fastest growth of a style 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: in terms of new launches this year, but IPAs are 33 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: still the best selling style of craft beer. It is 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 2: just a powerhouse. And this is even in the face 35 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: of like changing drinking habits, which has also been a 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: big thing since October of twenty eighteen. Like beer sales 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: in general have been a bit down the past couple 38 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: of years due to a number of factors, but for example, 39 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: sales of non alcoholic beers in bars and restaurants is 40 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 2: up by about a third, and IPAs are leading that 41 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: category with a one hundred and seventy percent growth rate 42 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 2: year over year. Wow, Yeah, they're a big dew. Yeah 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: they have been for a while. They certainly have. And 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: so without further ado, let's let former Annie and Lauren 45 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: take it away. Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Annie 46 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about IPAs. 47 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: IPA's which, in case you didn't know, Super India pale ale. 48 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: Yes, it's a beer style and it's a very popular 49 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: beer style. It's sort of like v beer style of 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: the American craft scene, which is why we wanted to 51 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: talk about it during this Ashville stravaganza that we are 52 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: embarked upon. Did your trademark that not yet? You better 53 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: get on it. People are gonna want that. I'm sure 54 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: they are. 55 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're rushing to the patent offices. I think that's 56 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: how it works. 57 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Sure. 58 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: Well. I was telling Lauren before we started recording that 59 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: I've always been a person who said I don't like IPAs, 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: But doing the research for this episode, I realized I 61 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: do like IPAs. But there was kind of this ipa 62 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: arms race where they were everywhere and bad ones were everywhere. 63 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was too many. 64 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: Yes, So I think I just don't like bad ivas. 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: But there are some IPAs out there. For me. There's 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: one I always get because it reminds me of the 67 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: day I broke up, which is a weird thing that 68 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: I do. 69 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: But it's a good. 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: Iva. 71 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: That is an interesting bit of nostalgia. It is, isn't it. 72 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: I like it? Oh? Yeah, I remember that. We've been 73 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: researching nostalgia all day. Yeah, and so I'm like, okay, 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to follow up with you about this later. 75 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: Oh, excellent, dive into my psyche. That's a dark podcast, 76 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: all right. Moving on from that, let's get to our 77 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: question IPAs. 78 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: What are they? Well, India pale ales are a style 79 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: of beer made from a light roasted malt and lots 80 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 2: of hops, which lets the hops really shine and creates 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 2: these bright, bitter flavors. But let's get a little bit 82 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: more granular than that. And that's almost a pun because 83 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: I'm about to talk about grains. I'm working on it. Yeah, 84 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: so okay. Beer. Beer is an alcoholic beverage made from 85 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: malted grain, water, and yeast. You boil the malt in 86 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: water to release sugars, then add the yeast, which eats 87 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: those sugars and poops carbon dioxide alcohol and flavor Ooo yeast, 88 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 2: please poop again. Yeah. You can also add other stuff 89 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: to flavor beer, like hops, to balance those sweet flavors 90 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: from the malt and the yeast. Most modern beer does 91 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: contain hops, and hops are the flower of this climbing 92 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 2: plant that adds flavors to beer, especially bitter flavors and 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: super bonus. Inhibits the growth of unwanted microorganisms, especially bacteria, 94 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: in your beer. They also help stabilize beer's foam. And 95 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: I really want to do a whole episode on hops. Now. 96 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: This is a very pared down version of what it is, 97 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: but u Yes, hops can be added to beer right 98 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: at the beginning of that boil with the malt that's 99 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: going to extract the maximum amount of acids from the 100 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 2: hops and thus the maximum bitterness. Or you can add 101 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: them towards the end of the boil for more delicate 102 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: oil based flavors, or after the boil entirely when the 103 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: liquid has cooled, for even more of those fresh oil 104 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: based flavors. That third one is called dry hopping. By 105 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: the way, if you've ever seen that phrase and not 106 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: understood what it meant, now you know. Now you know. 107 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: Knowing is half the beering. You can also use a 108 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: combination of these three hop processes, and all will yield 109 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: slightly different results with different varieties of hops, but in 110 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: general hops equal bitter. 111 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: Yes, we made a video with a local distillery that 112 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: is not right brewery called Orpheus, and they let us 113 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: try straight up hops. 114 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: And it was quite bitter. It was, Yes, I have 115 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: video evidence of it. Oh yeah, I think for a 116 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: good like twenty minutes after I tasted that tiny little 117 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: granule of hop, like, I was like a cat trying 118 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: to like wipe the scent off of my face. Oh no, 119 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: what have I done? 120 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like bitter soap. It was like soap, 121 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: but even more bitter. 122 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I actually sort of enjoyed the sensation. 123 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: But that just says something about me probably. Any Way, 124 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: How bitter are we talking about here? Yeah? How bitter? Well, 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: let's talk about IBU or international bitterness units or bittering units. 126 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: SCIENTI. 127 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: That is a good way to know what beer you'll 128 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: like on a menu. I'll tell you that. It's certainly helpful. 129 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: It's a scale that's meant to help brewers and drinkers 130 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: gauge how bitter a beer will taste. You might have 131 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: seen it listed next to beers on menus or on bottles. 132 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: We certainly saw this in Ashville. And it's a measurement 133 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: of sort of one type of bitterness in beer. The 134 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: parts per million of several bittering compounds that beer contains, 135 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: and these compounds tend to come in with hops. Most 136 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: beers you will drink range from like five to one 137 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty IBus, with the higher scores indicating higher 138 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: content of those bitter and compounds. IPAs, because of their 139 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: hop content, tend to veer towards the upper end of 140 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: that and interestingly, IBus like Scoville units, technically go to infinity. 141 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: Oh oh no, there have been beers measured with over 142 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: two thousand IBus. Did people survive after drinking them? I 143 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: haven't read reports back, but I assume that they Yeah, 144 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: I've read reviews, so they did live to tell the tale, 145 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: at least temporarily, at least for a little bit. Yeah, 146 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: but a lot of other factors in your beer will 147 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 2: influence how bitter the beer will actually taste to you. 148 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 2: You know, all kinds of things can go into the experience. 149 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: Like a stout can technically have a higher IBU rating 150 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: than a pal ale, which you would think of you know, 151 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: I don't know anyway, but yeah, ib's can give you 152 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: a good rough idea. 153 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the food also can determine how bitter it 154 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: is to you too. If you're enjoying it with food. 155 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, good spicy food is good with 156 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: an ipa. I hear. Oh it's lovely, Okay, great, Yeah, 157 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: and Fitton Glenn talked about that when we were in Asheville. 158 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 4: I really love a super hoppy ipa with spicy Mexican 159 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 4: food because I mean, laggers are great with Mexican food, 160 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 4: but you can't taste them once you've got those chili's 161 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 4: on your palette, whereas a bitter beer will actually cut 162 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 4: the intensity of the chili, so everybody of chili is 163 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 4: like that much more intense, which I love. 164 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 2: She's a beer historian and we had a great conversation 165 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: with her. But yeah, let's talk about some of those 166 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: styles of IPAs, because there are a bunch. There are 167 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: a bunch. 168 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: There are more than we included, and more than I've 169 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: ever heard of, honestly. But here here's a good rundown 170 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: of them. 171 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: First, we've got traditional IPAs. Those are going to be 172 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 2: your English IPAs, made with English yeast, malt, and and 173 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: they tend to be a little bit more gentle on 174 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: the bitterness, even perhaps toasty and stone fruity. No, not 175 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: in an ipa. My goodness me monsters. They stand in 176 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: stark contrast to most American IPAs, the West Coast ipa 177 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,599 Speaker 2: being the original. The original. 178 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: These are usually fruitier, citrusier, floralier, pineer pineer. 179 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, usually very bitter and hoppy. Then you've got East 180 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: Coast IPAs because of course, like I have some competitions 181 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 2: you do. These are more like English IPAs. They're a 182 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: little bit more balanced between the sweetness of the malt 183 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: and the bitterness of the hops, but are not to 184 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: be confused with. 185 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: New England IPAs, also called hazy IPAs, and these are 186 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: a relatively Newish style of ipa that are typically a 187 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: bit juicier and hazier. There was a whole thing where 188 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: the Brewers Association had to update their IPA guidelines to 189 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: include juicy and hazy IPAs since the clear color was 190 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: a part of the way beer judges would mark a 191 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: beer an ipa. This happened in twenty eighteen. Oh wow, 192 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: so very recent breaking news. The hops associated with these 193 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: IPAs are Mosaic, Citra and Galaxy, which are also relatively Newish. 194 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: The yeast use in New England IPAs are different as well. 195 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: They produce more esters and in part a bit of 196 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,359 Speaker 1: a sweeter, fruitier taste. Then there's the double imperial IPA. 197 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: A double or imperial. Yes, yes, not the double imperial, 198 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: all those that kind of does exist. Yeah, I guess 199 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: you could do a quadruple IPA if you wanted to 200 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: think people have goodness. We haven't. 201 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: We didn't include it, but I believe it exists. The 202 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: double or imperial came about as American brewers got more 203 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: and more heavy handed with their hops, and we got 204 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: a new category of IPA. 205 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: Then, of course triple IPAs, which are even more hops, 206 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: even higher abvs. And I think I've used that a 207 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 2: couple of times without explaining it. ABV stands for alcohol 208 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: by volume. 209 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, there are session IPAs, which are lower ABV, lighter, 210 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: easier drinking. 211 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: Belgian IPAs, which are usually not from Belgium, but they 212 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 2: will use Belgian yiese strains after bottling to create carbonation 213 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: and that kind of Belgianese sweet flavor. You've got. Black 214 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: IPAs aka Cascadian dark ales. These are dry and dark, 215 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: with a kind of chocolate or coffee bitterness in addition 216 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: to the usual citrus bitterness thanks to some roasted malt. 217 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 2: You've got white IPAs, red IPAs, brown rye, oat, lactose, bread, fruit, 218 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: and sour. Anything that you can do to a beerd 219 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 2: you can do to an ipa, and then it creates 220 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 2: a new little subcategory. It's sort of like gremlins. It's 221 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: sort of they just sort of all just pop off 222 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: from the main. 223 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: Well happens if you give a gremlin an ipa after midnight. 224 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: I shout out to think someone researched that. 225 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: Now. 226 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 2: Other terms that you might come across in IPA's are 227 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: single hopped and fresh hopped. Single hopped is what it 228 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: says on the box, Just a single variety of hops 229 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: were used in making that beer instead of a blend. 230 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: And fresh hopped beers are a maid using hops that 231 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: have been picked within the past twenty four hours, so 232 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: they have like a lot of fresh, bold flavor, and 233 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: they're usually meant to be consumed right away to get 234 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: like that just mouthful of grass that you might be 235 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: looking for. Sure. 236 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: One of our first stops when we went to Asheville 237 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: was that Sierra Nevada's brewery. 238 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: They're outpost in Asheville. 239 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, and I can't remember, I know I 240 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: got one that when I tasted it. It could evolve 241 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: and in my head, but the hops tasted very fresh 242 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: and like bright and grassy. 243 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: It was nice. 244 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're into that sort of thing, it can 245 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: be quite nice. 246 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: If you're not, it can be quite disgusting, very brave racing, indeed, 247 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: But that did not stop folks from making IPAs. I 248 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: don't think we can stress enough how much growth IPAs 249 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: have experienced in the past few decades. In the early nineties, 250 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: bartenders might not have known what you were talking about 251 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: when you asked for one. Craft brewing has a lot 252 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: to do with our increased societal awareness around IPAs and 253 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: our increased options. 254 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the growth of craft beer and IPAs have 255 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: gone pretty hand in hand. If you look at the 256 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 2: period of twenty eight to twenty fifteen, the production of 257 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: craft beer in the United States tripled in volume during 258 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: that time. IPAs in two thousand and eight were just 259 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: eight percent of the craft market, but sales of craft 260 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: IPAs rose thirty nine percent over the course of twenty 261 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: twelve alone, becoming sixteen percent of the market by the 262 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: end of that year, and then they rose again fifty 263 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: percent on top of that over the course of twenty fourteen. 264 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: At the end of twenty fourteen, they were twenty three 265 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: percent of the craft market and they were not done growing. 266 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: Of the US craft beer market, IPA's accounted for thirty 267 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: percent of that and twenty fifteen just up and up 268 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: and up. 269 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: This means that production of IPA's multiplied by more than 270 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: ten times in just seven years, and they are still 271 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: the biggest category of craft beer in the United States. 272 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: We got a lot of IPAs, we do. But how 273 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: did this happen? I don't know, No, I do, yeah, 274 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: pretty much. Yes, Yes, we've got some history for you, 275 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: but first we've got a quick break for a word 276 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, 277 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: thank you. 278 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: I would wager that a lot of you listeners have 279 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: probably heard some version of the IPA's history. 280 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: A lot of you have. 281 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Probably heard some version of the same type of story. 282 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: But I'm going to be straight with you, listeners, I 283 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: don't know for sure how much of that is true. 284 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those serious mysteries of history kind 285 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: of kind of things. But we're going to walk through 286 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: some of the legends here. 287 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are certainly some facts where all of 288 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: this spring. 289 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: From yes with. 290 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: So, yeah, we'll go over the main stories you're likely 291 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: to find about the IPA. 292 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: But first a little bit of setup. Yes, So, by 293 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: the mid seventeen hundreds, pale ales were all the rage 294 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: in England thanks to this new heating technology. Prior to 295 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: that time a wood or pete or charcoal were they 296 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: fuel sources used to roast malt, and this gave beers 297 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: a dark color and sort of deep smoky flavors. But 298 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: back in the sixteen hundreds, folks working with coal had 299 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: derived a new fuel called coke, which burned hotter and 300 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: faster than anything anyone had seen before. It drove industrial 301 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: development from iron to steel to glass and also made 302 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: its way into brewing. Malt could be finished without so 303 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: much smoke by using coke. The resulting malt was paler 304 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 2: and tasted cleaner than malts roasted with wood or whatever, 305 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 2: And so the resulting pale ales using these malts were 306 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: more expensive, but very posh and let the flavor of 307 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: any hops you added shine through more clearly. 308 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: Right, But when it comes to India and the British 309 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: Empire's presence in India, the temperature there was not ideal 310 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: for beer brewing no, it was too hot. On top 311 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: of that, the journey took about six months from Britain 312 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: to India, so you had to factor in that travel 313 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: time to whatever you were planning on surviving that trip 314 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: in good. 315 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: Shape because there were no refrigerators. 316 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: Yes, good reminder when it comes to beer, that means 317 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: more hops. Hops act as a preservative. A brewer out 318 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: of seventeen eighties London, George Hodgson, came up with the 319 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: idea for a heavily hopped beer called october Ale, which 320 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: normally would have been aged sort of like wine when 321 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: it reached India. Turns out well, it improved with age 322 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: hizah because India was so much hotter than Britain. It 323 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: eventually was modified to be paler and lighter, or, depending 324 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: on what story you hear, the extra hops mass the 325 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: fact that the beer is rotten. Brew Master George Sapiro 326 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: over at C. H. Evans Brewing Company said of the 327 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: higher alcohol content in this ipa the october Al quote, 328 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: it probably kept the people on the other end happy 329 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: that they were drinking it. You'll get intoxicated much faster 330 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: and maybe forget you are posted far from home in India, 331 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: or it could be because alcohol is a preservative, could 332 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: be sure. 333 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: Sure. That's one version of the story. 334 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: Another version is that dark Porters, which were popular in 335 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: London where the weather was cooler, were the beer that 336 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: British posted in India were stuck with for a while, 337 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: and stuck with because porters aren't exactly the best the 338 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: drink of choice, we'll say for hot weather situations. 339 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 2: Do you think of them more as a cool weather beer? Sure? Yes. 340 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: And on top of that, they arrived lukewarm, which apparently 341 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: was not ideal either. Hodgson was a supplier and he 342 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: tried all sorts of things to improve the quality of 343 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: his product and keep his eighteen month contract that he 344 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: had with the East India company. He sent unfermented beer 345 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: and would add the East once it derived at its destination. 346 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: That didn't really work. He sent beer concentrate to be 347 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: deluded when it arrived. 348 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 2: It didn't really work. 349 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: Then he came off the idea of sending a pale 350 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: ale that October Ale instead. The name comes from a 351 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: month and time it was brewed. It was invented as 352 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: a way to lessen the reliance on wine from France. 353 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: You know, in case you're feuding with the French. 354 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: As England does occasionally occasionally. 355 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: Because this beer was meant to sub for wine, it 356 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: was brewed to be very rich and sort of soften 357 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: in flavor as time passed. There was even tradition among 358 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: rich people of having a batch brewed up when their 359 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: first son was born for him to drink when he 360 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: turned eighteen. 361 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: I love this idea, by the way. Yeah, I'm not 362 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: sure about babies, but man, if I have any, you're 363 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 2: doing this for sure. So put one in the positive column. 364 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 2: One mark plus. I guess I could just make a 365 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 2: beer and save it for eighteen years. But you could 366 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: maybe after eighteen years of doing this show Oh oh heck, okay, 367 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: plans for the future. 368 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: Yes, These beers were loaded up with fresh hops up 369 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: to ten pounds of barrel. Hodgton took inspiration from this 370 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: and shipped some of this style of beer to India, 371 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: and the first batch arrived to that country in January 372 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty two. Folks were so excited about it. Quote 373 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: Hodgston's warranted prime picked ale of the genuine October brewing, 374 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: fully equal, if not superior to any ever before received 375 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: in the settlement. 376 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 2: That's pretty that's strong. Arting. 377 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, as other bigger brewers started imitating Hodgson and the 378 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: beer grew weaker, you know, to save money and all 379 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: that stuff, pale ale for British consumption went up. But 380 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: Hodgin's sons Mark and Frederick did not mess around. If 381 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: they got even a whiff that another brewer was looking 382 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 1: to make a similar product to theirs, they'd release a 383 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: ton of their beer and lower their prices to deter 384 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: any competition. They did away with the middleman. And here 385 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 1: the middleman is the East India Company, and they shipped 386 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: their beer directly to India. 387 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: Oh but I have a feeling that somebody didn't like this. 388 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: That's somebody being the East India Company. 389 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: Your feelings all correct, Lauren. In the eighteen twenties, the 390 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: East India Company's director Campbell MAJORA Banks, and I laughed 391 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: aloud when I read his name the first time, and 392 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: I just laughed aloud again. 393 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: Apologies to mister MAJORA. Banks. 394 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: He got his hand on a bottle of Hodgin's October 395 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: beer and took it to a competitor and asked them 396 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: to make a replica. The competitor, Allsop, thought the beer 397 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: was gross. Legend has it he spit it out when 398 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: he first tried it, but he did set about making it, 399 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: and he's spared no expense. He tasked the guy behind 400 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: his malts to find the freshest, lightest, and finest hops 401 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: in all the land, which were then barely kilned. Another 402 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: legend goes that the brewer tried to test batch in 403 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: a tea kettle to make sure you didn't waste any 404 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: of these really expensive hops, and the test was a success. 405 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: One fellow described the beer as quote a heavenly compound 406 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: with an amber color and a very peculiar fine flavor. 407 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 2: But possibly a lot of. 408 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: This isn't true. It is the popular origin story of 409 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: the IPA. Records do show that at least by the 410 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: seventeen sixties, brewers were being told that it was quote 411 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: absolutely necessary to put extra hops in beer that were 412 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: destined for somewhere warmer like India. Pale Ale was being 413 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: advertised in India by seventeen eighty four, and about a 414 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: decade later you could find advertisements for Hodgston's pale Ale. 415 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: Specifically whether or not it had those extra hops, that's 416 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: hard to say. The first known or recipe for an 417 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: ipa didn't appear until eighteen twenty one. 418 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: Quote. 419 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: It is well known that, other things being equal, the 420 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: liquor keeps in proportion to the quantity of hops. Fresh 421 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: beer may have from a pound to a pound and 422 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: a half to a barrel of thirty two gallons June 423 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: beer two pounds and a half. Beer for the month 424 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: of August three pounds, and for a second summer three 425 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: and a half. For India voyages four pounds. Hogton recipe 426 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: was called quote the best and most sought after in 427 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: India in eighteen twenty nine. 428 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: Ten years later and it. 429 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: Was described as Hodgin's Ale, the universal and favorite beverage 430 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: of our vast Indian territories. The first written instance of 431 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: IPA that we know of was an eighteen thirty five 432 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: AD for Hodgson's quote. 433 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: East India pale Ale. 434 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: Then in eighteen sixty nine we get the first written 435 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: documentation claiming that Hodgson invented the IPA quote. The origin 436 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: of India Ale is by common consent, accredited to a 437 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: London brewer named Hodgson. The brewer where pale Ale was 438 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: first brewed, according to popular opinion, was the Old Bow Brewery, 439 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: or it could be Bo Brewery. 440 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 2: Oh I'm not sure, not sure about a lot of things. 441 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: And a lot of historians aren't sure about that popular 442 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: opinion thing. 443 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, because there were a couple other breweries that had 444 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: started making I think bass had one kind of early 445 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: on and one other that I'm forgetting the name of. 446 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: But yeah, they were popular in India. They were, and 447 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: they became popular back home as well thanks to a 448 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: shipwreck in eighteen twenty seven. This is another one of 449 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: those legends that I'm not sure the veracity of, but 450 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: I'm tickled by it. So a hall of Ipa was 451 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: headed out to India, the story goes, but the shipwrecked 452 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: and the Irish sea and the salvaged cargo was auctioned 453 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: off in Liverpool. And after that people got a taste 454 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 2: for it, and it was produced widely for home markets 455 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: as well as overseas. I hope that's true. No, right, 456 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 2: that's great. I remember when we. 457 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: First started this show we wanted to talk about shipwrecks. 458 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but oh they're great. 459 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: I think was it because of Champagne? I think so. Yeah, 460 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 2: this is the first one, then, great Champagne stories about shipwrecks. 461 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: This is true. The pressure underwater, keeps it in the bottle. 462 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: It's been pulled up from the Titanic. 463 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: It has Perhaps we will one day do our shipwreck 464 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: episode finally, but first we must finish this IPA episode. 465 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: Oh I suppose what about IPAs in the US of A. 466 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: We'll get into that after one more quick break for 467 00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. 468 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: And we're back. 469 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. 470 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: So IPA's in the USA. They were being brewed in 471 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: the US by eighteen seventy eight. Of note is New 472 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: Jersey's Ballantine or Balentine Brewery, who were making the same 473 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: IPA until nineteen ninety six. Yeah, but we got to 474 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: talk about refrigeration. Oh, pretty important, yes, yes, because once 475 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: it came around India, pale ales were sort of viewed 476 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: as a thing of the past. 477 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: Well, we don't need to worry about those anymore. 478 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: Right, No need for a beer to survive a journey 479 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: on a boat unrefrigerated for six months, posh, poppy cock. 480 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: The popularity of the Czech pilsner didn't help either. I 481 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: read in a lot of places that the pilsner was 482 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: so popular it endangered a lot of other beers. 483 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, all of the research into micro organisms that were 484 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: happening at the time, and all of these clean beers 485 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: that came out, people had never tasted anything like them 486 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: because they had never been able to make such a 487 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: clean beer before, so that they were like, oh this, 488 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: I want more of this. 489 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: And all the time, pale ales still were around, but 490 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: India pale ales not so much. The temperance movement increased 491 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: abb taxes. There are a lot of things working against 492 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the IPA. Yeah, and that didn't change until the nineteen 493 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: seventies when Americans got into brewing in a big way. 494 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: First in nineteen seventy two when the Oregon State University's 495 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: USDA Breeding program released the Cascade Hop. That was an 496 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: important step. Kraft Brewers said about bringing all kinds of 497 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: old school European style beers, the IPA being one of them. 498 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: Also importantly, this was the time when laws came in 499 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: allowing craft brewing to happen. 500 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: Yes, very important, but with more hops and more alcohol 501 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: because America, that's what we were doing with IPAs. San 502 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: Francisco's Anchor Brewing brewed what's seen as the first modern 503 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: American IPA in nineteen seventy five, called Liberty Ale The 504 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: first awards for IPAs in the US were given out 505 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine. The first official double IPA came 506 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: out in nineteen ninety four, by the same brewer that 507 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: released Plenty the Elder six years later. The beer is Plenty, 508 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: the guy is Pliny. Yes, we never know anymore. 509 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: I think it's Pliny as the beer and Plenty is 510 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: the guy. 511 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: It's all a mystery. We didn't Lenny Plinny. We did 512 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: a video on it. We tried it. Who knows anyway? 513 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: That happened six years after the first double IBA came out. 514 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: Since then, we've seen IBus of one thousand, apparently two 515 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: thousand IPAs with abvs of fifteen to twenty percent, IPAs 516 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: with four percent abvs, sour IPAs, milkshake IPAs. The IPA 517 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: this space for brewers to experiment, to push that bitterness envelope, 518 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: a way to push back against big beer, although big 519 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: beer has gotten on the IPA train too. 520 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. 521 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: And then, in that weird cyclical way that history works, 522 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: the American style IPA made its way back to Britain, 523 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: and now the British are making IPAs again as well 524 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: as of this. 525 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: Year, researchers created a genetically modified strain of yeast that 526 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: can produce the bitter flavors of IPAs without you needing 527 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: to add any hops to the brew. Hmm and liked 528 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: speaking of big companies. So what the researchers did. They 529 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: spliced in genetic code from mint and basil. The yeast, 530 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: eat the sugars in the malt and poop these bitter 531 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: compounds along with the alcohol and carbon dioxide. And the 532 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 2: researchers are thinking that commercial breweries could use yeasts like 533 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 2: these to create more consistent product in bulk, because you 534 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: wouldn't have to worry about the availability and the consistency 535 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: of hops, which, you know, being a natural product, have 536 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: natural differences. Crapped crap mm hm. I mean that sounds 537 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: a little bit heretical to me, but you know, I 538 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: don't know. Science is still cool. Science is cool. And 539 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: as we talked about at the top of the show, 540 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: IPAs really boomed after the turn of the twenty first century, 541 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: and since then a lot of digital inc has been 542 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 2: shed concerning the popularity of the style. In twenty sixteen, 543 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: one Andy Sparhawk, which is a great name, he was 544 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 2: writing for craft beer dot com and he said that 545 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: IPAs are like surrealist art. They're very obvious and very 546 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 2: bold and can be a good entrance to interesting beers. 547 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: You know, once you start in on IPAs, you can 548 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: start looking for more subtle and by his metaphor more 549 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: abstract flavors. Oh sort of liked that. Yeah, and it's 550 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: a much nicer way than many other people put the 551 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: American obsession with IPAs. This is true. And today, yeah, 552 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: craftloggers and sours are taking a bite out of IPA sales, 553 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 2: but industry experts still think that like the next IPA 554 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: is more IPAs. 555 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,479 Speaker 1: Yes, and I know right now I think the session 556 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: IPA is really popular, and that's the lower ABV and 557 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: sometimes it has fruit in it as well, so it's 558 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: kind of like sours meat ip Sure, I do love it. 559 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: It's this field for experimentation and really trying new things, 560 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: pushing the envelope. 561 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that more other styles are coming up. 562 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: I felt like for a good couple of years there. Yeah, 563 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: like any brewery that I walked into was nineteen IPAs, 564 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: yeah and a pilsner, and I was like, I don't 565 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: want to drink any of these right now. Yeah, I 566 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 2: do love a variety. I think that's I do. 567 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: Yes, doing the research for this one, I made the 568 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,719 Speaker 1: mistake of needing the comments. 569 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: Oh, and people have some. 570 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: Serious thoughts about IPAs. I mean people have serious thoughts 571 00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: about everything. 572 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: Oh sure, woo. Yeah, that's wonderful. It's wonderful that there 573 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: are many beers and everyone can have opinions about them. 574 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: This is true that we'd love to know if any 575 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: of you listeners are making IPAs. 576 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you have any strong opinions about them, 577 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: one way or another. If you have a favorite one 578 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 2: that we need to try. 579 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: Yes, oh, always send recommendations always. I got an ongoing list. 580 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and this was a very thirsty episode like 581 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 2: this was. I was doing most of the research for 582 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: this early in the morning, and I was still like, man, 583 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 2: I could use an IPA right now. 584 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: Morning beer used to be a tradition and it still 585 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: is in some places. And that brings us to the 586 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: end of this classic episode. We hope that you enjoyed 587 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: hearing it for the first time, second time, who knows 588 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: how many times, as much as we enjoyed bringing it back. 589 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Also spoiler alert, I have not started brewing 590 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: any beer, let alone a beer to age eighteen years 591 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: for savers eighteenth birthday. I've had other stuff going on. 592 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: We have a long to do list, to be honest, 593 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: we do, we do. Maybe we'll get on it sooner 594 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 2: or later. Yeah, yeah, right right now. I'm really into 595 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: rebooting my fish tank. So that's but beer brewing will 596 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 2: be in here somewhere not related to the fish tank. 597 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 3: All right, well, I want updates on both, Lauren, We'll do, 598 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 3: We'll do, yes, well, in the meantime, listeners, if you 599 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 3: would like to contact us, if you have done any 600 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 3: beer brewing. 601 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you have opinions about IPAs or sours 602 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 2: or anything else. If you have a fish tank, if 603 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: you oh yeah, oh my goodness, I want to hear 604 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: about your I want to hear about your fish or 605 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: other forms of aquatic life, all of these things. Please 606 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: let us know. 607 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 3: You can email us at Hello at saborpod dot com. 608 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on 609 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 2: Instagram and blue Sky at saber pod, and we do 610 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. 611 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit 612 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 613 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers 614 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 615 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 616 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: your way.