Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 4: These are our stories done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Hello, It's me Kara Klank and I'm Liza Trigger.
Speaker 2: And this is That's Messed Up an SCVU podcast. And
Speaker 2: this is a big one. It's our tenth episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what's up.
Speaker 1: We basically are gonna recap an episode of that Law
Speaker 1: and Order SVU, then we're gonna do a deep dive
Speaker 1: into the true crime that was based on and then
Speaker 1: we're going to have an interview. And today's interview is, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's a barn Burner. So I think we should keep
Speaker 1: this intro short.
Speaker 2: What does barn burner mean? I only know it from
Speaker 2: Big Business Huge.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's just like it's gonna be. I
Speaker 1: think it's gonna rock you guys world. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: you've probably already seen our Instagram and know who it is,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna make you eight. We just wanted to
Speaker 1: say a couple of things. What do we want to
Speaker 1: talk about Lisa.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a disclaimer in this episode, I do
Speaker 2: say fucking a lot, and it's because it's the fucking
Speaker 2: worst crime I've ever probably researched, and so I get
Speaker 2: you know, I don't have a great vocabulary, So that's
Speaker 2: where I know I say fucking.
Speaker 1: I disagree. I think you have a great votecab. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're reverse to that F word.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're listening to this podcast. But
Speaker 1: just keep in mind that Lisa, Lisa, Well I just
Speaker 1: said Lisa. Just keep in mind that Lisa will be
Speaker 1: saying that word quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Did I tell you that one time I was performing
Speaker 2: and what's the blushi that's alive?
Speaker 3: Jim?
Speaker 2: He brought me up on stage as Leslie. You are
Speaker 2: so not a Leslie. No, no, no, not at all. But
Speaker 2: I will always remember that. And we also need to
Speaker 2: give a a reminder that Sister Peg today is very
Speaker 2: very important.
Speaker 3: You're going to listen to this crime.
Speaker 2: It's very heinous, very fucked up, and this man is
Speaker 2: actually up for parole in March because of COVID and
Speaker 2: early release, so we have all the information right to
Speaker 2: the parole boards. So just keep that in mind as
Speaker 2: you're listening that like this man might have a chance
Speaker 2: to be let out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and stick around to get our info about how
Speaker 1: to help us out with that.
Speaker 2: And I know we need to keep this fast, but
Speaker 2: I do have to say I did post on my
Speaker 2: Instagram this week that I did see a coyote on
Speaker 2: my walk this week or a fox, I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but it was very dangerous.
Speaker 3: Also could have been a large dog or cat.
Speaker 1: No one is really positive, No one is positive, but
Speaker 1: it was The story was harrowing. Lisa starts running like
Speaker 1: a serial killer is chasing her. It was it looked
Speaker 1: like the opening of an SVU. It literally looked like, Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: what's going on? What's that up ahead? Character starts running,
Speaker 1: phone drops cut till Livia Benson like standing over the body.
Speaker 2: And honestly, anyone that didn't reach out to me not
Speaker 2: my friend anymore? How dare you watch that and not
Speaker 2: text me?
Speaker 5: Wait?
Speaker 1: I had to fast forward the stories to find out
Speaker 1: what happened.
Speaker 3: I was just like, I can't watch this in real time,
Speaker 3: like it was stressing me out.
Speaker 1: Anyway, speaking of stress, we also just want to give
Speaker 1: a trigger warning at the top of this episode. This
Speaker 1: is a this crime is truly a very very brutal
Speaker 1: and yeah, just if anyone you know, just to keep
Speaker 1: in mind. Obviously we always talk about upsetting stuff on
Speaker 1: this podcast, but just a little extra trigger warning for
Speaker 1: you today.
Speaker 3: And then it is Black History Month.
Speaker 1: Happy Black History Months everyone, and we wanted to just
Speaker 1: give a couple of res of black conceived and starring shows.
Speaker 3: And media that we love. I mean, I am.
Speaker 1: Obsessed with two shows both on HBO, one called I
Speaker 1: May Destroy You. Or if you live in the UK,
Speaker 1: I guess this is probably available to you a different
Speaker 1: way because it is a British creator. It's called I
Speaker 1: May Destroy You, one of my favorite things I watched
Speaker 1: all last year. And then obviously Insecure I think is
Speaker 1: like the modern Sex and the City. But honestly it's
Speaker 1: it's a little I don't know, it's different and better.
Speaker 3: It's more relatable.
Speaker 2: I have watched to show that I'm like, this is
Speaker 2: this is my friend Grip, Like I don't, I feel
Speaker 2: very related to the characters. And there's a fellow comedian
Speaker 2: who's fully nude and we see his ass and that
Speaker 2: was thrilling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out to Langston Hermann.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Reggie, I was singing Reggie, I forgot we see Langston's
Speaker 2: Ass too.
Speaker 3: So many butts.
Speaker 1: And then I wanted to shout out two movies that
Speaker 1: I haven't actually seen yet but are on my list
Speaker 1: and I want to see asap. One is already available
Speaker 1: on Netflix called Maul Rainey's Black Bottom. I've heard nothing
Speaker 1: but amazing things about this movie. And another is written
Speaker 1: by two of our friends, the comedians, the Lucas Brothers,
Speaker 1: and it's called Judas and the Black Messiah, which I
Speaker 1: believe is if it's not out, it's coming out in
Speaker 1: the next week or so on HBO Max. And then,
Speaker 1: speaking of Netflix, if you don't follow the Strong Black
Speaker 1: Lead account on Instagram, I would follow it. It's really
Speaker 1: fun and they promote black shows and memes and it's
Speaker 1: really fun. I really I've been following it for a
Speaker 1: long time and I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Amazing And now I'll do my list. This is it's
Speaker 2: very fun. I feel like I want a Glamour magazine.
Speaker 2: So my favorite Instagram account that I'm really obsessed with
Speaker 2: right now is called Embracing Black Culture, and it's just memes, videos,
Speaker 2: funny things, just fun. I was reading about how like
Speaker 2: black History mounch shouldn't just be about like trauma and
Speaker 2: watching things about you know, enslaved people. You can have
Speaker 2: a good time and watch bad boys and so embracing
Speaker 2: black culture is great.
Speaker 3: Also, I love Pat McGrath.
Speaker 2: She's a makeup artist and she's probably one of the
Speaker 2: best makeup artists to ever exist. And her makeup is
Speaker 2: very expensive, but she's very cool and so you can
Speaker 2: follow her and look at her cool looks. I do
Speaker 2: have her lipsticks, no big deal pre pandemic of course.
Speaker 2: And then this wasn't on my list because Insecure was
Speaker 2: on my list. But Langston Kerman has a podcast called
Speaker 2: My Mama Told Me and it's about conspiracy theories. And
Speaker 2: then I want to give a shout out to my
Speaker 2: friend Larry Owens. He was in a Strange Loop that
Speaker 2: was off Broadway when Life was Open and I saw
Speaker 2: it and it was the best show ever because I
Speaker 2: saw Hadestown that week too.
Speaker 3: I am very cultured and.
Speaker 2: Hadestown won seven Tony's and when I saw Strange Loop,
Speaker 2: I went Hadestown, who like it meant nothing to me anymore.
Speaker 2: And you obviously can't go see it, but you can
Speaker 2: get the soundtrack on you know and listen to.
Speaker 1: The music, and you can follow Larry on Instagram and
Speaker 1: I'm sure when the world comes back he'll be doing
Speaker 1: something awesome with the show.
Speaker 3: And Michael R.
Speaker 2: Jackson, who wrote Strange Loop, won the Pulitzer, So it's
Speaker 2: a Pulitzer winning musical and it's so fucking good.
Speaker 1: Awesome, And now let's get on with the show, all right,
Speaker 1: let's get into Slaves, episode twenty two of season one.
Speaker 1: This is the season finale of the first season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to be in season one, but also horrified.
Speaker 2: Like a lot of episodes, I feel like I keep
Speaker 2: saying this and I will continue to say this throughout
Speaker 2: the podcast, but this one is haunted.
Speaker 1: Me for Yeah, this one is wild. So lets everybody
Speaker 1: strap on. I mean, I don't we don't need to
Speaker 1: say trigger warning. You should know that this whole podcast
Speaker 1: is a trigger warning. There's like a ton of horrible
Speaker 1: shit in this episode, but we're going to try to
Speaker 1: make it light and fun for you.
Speaker 3: And just over re knows.
Speaker 2: Benson has shoulder length hair with Rachel's style layers.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's dark like it's probably the closest to
Speaker 1: her natural hair color. Like it's very dark, and it's
Speaker 1: like before she started kind of doing like the tanning
Speaker 1: that she does. I mean she has a little bit
Speaker 1: of a bronzer on now all the time. Right, she's
Speaker 1: very pale, like light pale at the beginning.
Speaker 3: I don't I actually don't remember. I okay, I'll yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: just agree Lisa. So she's pale.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So everybody this when you when you start
Speaker 1: this episode. This is the episode where they all get
Speaker 1: a psych evaluation and they're pissed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are starts.
Speaker 2: Dare you say, find out if we're competent and able
Speaker 2: to work?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but how dare you care about our mental health?
Speaker 1: Like, so that's where this episode is twenty one years ago.
Speaker 1: Definitely not treating mental health the same as they probably would.
Speaker 2: Yes, the psychologist is Broadway legend Broadway star Audra McDonald.
Speaker 1: Yes, a legend. She is a psychologist that is evaluating
Speaker 1: all them. So that's a runner throughout the show that
Speaker 1: we'll keep checking in on. This is pre iced Tea,
Speaker 1: So it's Benson, Stabler, Munch, and Detective moniqu Jeffreys played
Speaker 1: by Michelle Hurt. So she was in the whole first season.
Speaker 1: So basically the cold open. A fruit vendor comes into
Speaker 1: the squad room. He's a Romanian fruit vender, and a
Speaker 1: Romanian woman has like begged him for help and says,
Speaker 1: I'm trapped in a situation I cannot escape from and
Speaker 1: hands her hands him a piece of paper with the
Speaker 1: name Constanta Kodrescue written on it, and he and says
Speaker 1: to the fruit vendor, tell her she was right, I
Speaker 1: need help, okay, and then he goes, this happened three
Speaker 1: days ago, so it took him a minute to get
Speaker 1: to the copy.
Speaker 3: His wife made.
Speaker 1: Its, As so many things happen in life, the wife
Speaker 1: makes the man do it.
Speaker 2: I just can you even imagine a woman comes to
Speaker 2: you to store crying desperate for help, one name on
Speaker 2: a page and your mother tongue and you were like,
Speaker 2: I'll forget about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's probably pranking me, Like I just can't this
Speaker 1: am I on put cannon camera, like come on. So
Speaker 1: the cops go to see this woman Constanta could Rescue.
Speaker 3: She completely denies knowing this woman.
Speaker 1: At first she's then she's like she's my niece, but
Speaker 1: we're not close. And then she says her name is
Speaker 1: Elena could Rescue. She hasn't seen her in three years.
Speaker 1: She came to New York on a student visa. Now
Speaker 1: they're calling it NYU. I realize kind of at the
Speaker 1: beginning that they're probably allowed to refer to NYU if
Speaker 1: it's just someone coming to the city to go to
Speaker 1: NYU or like, oh, I'm a I'm an NYU grad,
Speaker 1: Like they can say that they can't have like rapes
Speaker 1: and murders take place there.
Speaker 3: That's why they happen at Hudson University. That's amazing, amazing
Speaker 3: little tidbit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what I think we'll have to
Speaker 1: ask like a writer or producer once we get one
Speaker 1: of them on this On this pod, Benson gives constant
Speaker 1: to her business card, like if you come up, if
Speaker 1: you think of anything else, call me, And we find
Speaker 1: out that she never showed up. This girl never showed up.
Speaker 1: Elena never showed up to NYU at all. So meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Craigan is getting grilled by Yes, Broadway Legend, Dodger McDonald
Speaker 1: literally in my notes also so Broadway Legend and caps.
Speaker 1: Craigan gets a little bit hyped about his alcoholism. He's like, yes,
Speaker 1: I got the urge to drink. And then she goes
Speaker 1: do you think you will? And he goes ask me tomorrow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's one day at a time. That's the
Speaker 1: whole thing with alcoholism with aa Yeah, that's constitution a
Speaker 1: man who has a problem with alcohol and works looking
Speaker 1: at the most heinous crimes day in and day out.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler are questioning this like wacky balloon animal
Speaker 1: clown who's got like a deep New York accent and
Speaker 1: who will not stop to talk to the cops, Like, well.
Speaker 3: That's a classic.
Speaker 2: But it's okay, you're carrying lumber, you're washing a dish,
Speaker 2: but to make bloon animals NonStop? Yeah, talking about an
Speaker 2: endangered woman is that's that's it's a nice standard.
Speaker 3: For season one. And he's like yeah, scenes are like
Speaker 3: he's so New York. He has seen Elena.
Speaker 1: He says she's a nanny, but he also said that
Speaker 1: she seemed like totally fine. Meanwhile, the cops get a
Speaker 1: call that a body's been found off the Henry Hudson.
Speaker 3: Parkway, the West Side Highway.
Speaker 1: Shout out to my old highway, and the body has
Speaker 1: Benson's card in their pocket.
Speaker 3: It was rolled in a rug and thrown out of
Speaker 3: the car.
Speaker 1: I mean Henry Hudson's like a very busy highway. I
Speaker 1: don't know how you just like stop and throw a
Speaker 1: body off the side. But okay, maybe in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night. Is it always possible? It always has
Speaker 1: people on it. I've taken I've been taking cabs like
Speaker 1: bombed home on that highway for sure. But the body
Speaker 1: is Constanta, the person they have literally interviewed earlier that day.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty quick turnaround.
Speaker 2: I also have an issue with this scene. They like
Speaker 2: try they pry her jaw open. Well, yeah, that's the
Speaker 2: next scene. Oh the folly artist gotta was really working hard.
Speaker 2: They they I don't understand why we needed to hear
Speaker 2: as the jaw gets creaked open.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Benson is Stabler go to the medical examiner, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, this is pre Tamratuni and the medical
Speaker 1: examiner is Lance Reddick, famous actor from Corporate on Comedy
Speaker 1: Central from Bosh Love him, you love Bosh, I love
Speaker 1: I have Ah my god, I'm not I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: That's because everyone that watches Bosh is my parents' age.
Speaker 3: But like it is. I like it because it's in
Speaker 3: LA and I get to like.
Speaker 1: See a lot of LA. I like the Twists. It's
Speaker 1: fun watch the l word.
Speaker 3: Hey, yeah I should. I absolutely should.
Speaker 1: My best friend's been telling me to watch that forever.
Speaker 1: Happy birthday to hers today. Anyway, Warner doesn't join until
Speaker 1: season two. So we've got a cute, skinny young Lance
Speaker 1: Reddick and he basically is telling her something has stopped
Speaker 1: her heart. Only an injection would make that possible. But
Speaker 1: he can't find the puncture somehow. Benson is like, what
Speaker 1: about under the tongue? I don't know how she knows that.
Speaker 1: They never really explain it.
Speaker 3: She's a great detective. Hey, yeah, but what in a
Speaker 3: medical examiner? No, to check under the tongue.
Speaker 1: That's why Maybe that's why gets brought in second season,
Speaker 1: So because she rolls her eyes when it's there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like, yeah, I could have told you that. Yeah. Like,
Speaker 3: so there is a puncture woe under the tongue.
Speaker 1: So this is where the jaw gets and so yeah,
Speaker 1: when he prize opened the jaw, Liza did not appreciate
Speaker 1: the folly work happening there. It's just this creaky, horrific
Speaker 1: noise that is making me like twitch right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did not need an exactly an exaggerated jaw open noise.
Speaker 1: Well it stuck with you, didn't it. It did, so
Speaker 1: maybe the folly artist is going for an Emmy. So
Speaker 1: we find out that like Elena's father was killed also
Speaker 1: back in Romania. Munch gives us a little all Roads
Speaker 1: lead to Romania joke. Elena turns out an American businessman
Speaker 1: in Bucharest who brought her over to the United States,
Speaker 1: and Concanta and Elena fellow out over it like they
Speaker 1: haven't spoken and all this time.
Speaker 2: And the thing is, I want everyone to be safe.
Speaker 2: I'm on the ant side.
Speaker 3: You don't.
Speaker 2: You don't trust an American business man anywhere.
Speaker 1: Who's bringing you over to the United States for free
Speaker 1: out of charity?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, we'll bring you to a free country
Speaker 2: for are a favor or because they think you're a
Speaker 2: cool girl.
Speaker 3: Now, you know.
Speaker 2: And you don't ever want to blame the victim. But
Speaker 2: and it happens so often, But because people are desperate
Speaker 2: and they want to be here. But do not trust
Speaker 2: an American that's trying to do something nice for free.
Speaker 1: Yeah ever, yeah that's us.
Speaker 3: Put it on a T shirt.
Speaker 1: Do not trust an American trying to do something for
Speaker 1: you for free. So we get a quick we get
Speaker 1: a quick glimpse of Benson with the shrink. She admits
Speaker 1: she's the child of rape, which we've heard earlier in
Speaker 1: the season, and when the therapist asked her, what would
Speaker 1: you be if you couldn't be like a sex crimes detective,
Speaker 1: she's like at a loss and honestly looks like she's
Speaker 1: about to cry because there's like nothing else she could do, honestly, comedy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I stay on a woman who knows her career path.
Speaker 3: I think it's fine. I don't know why that's such
Speaker 3: a huge because.
Speaker 2: They want women to have kids, you know, that's class
Speaker 2: Just like, why do you do this?
Speaker 3: What would you have been a kindergarten teacher? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like what it's weird, So it makes it okay. So
Speaker 1: we're back at the lab. Constanto is found in a
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars rug. So that's like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a red flag right there. That's like, you know,
Speaker 1: no one's wrapping up victims in a five k Really,
Speaker 1: I don't know how much rugs cost. Well, the rugs
Speaker 1: in my house are four hundred dollars. I mean they're
Speaker 1: not a lot, but that sounds like a lot to
Speaker 1: make thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: No, but a rug.
Speaker 1: You're on it every day. It's supposed to last you
Speaker 1: for years. You know, five thousand dollars. That's an expensive rug.
Speaker 1: They find one hair in the rug.
Speaker 3: They go to Air Bucharest, not a real.
Speaker 1: Airline, and find Elena's flight from three years earlier when
Speaker 1: she arrived, and the person that purchased it for her
Speaker 1: was named Randolph Morow. Okay, they go to his They
Speaker 1: go to the house of him. They find Elena. She
Speaker 1: is acting like cool as a cucumber. Nothing's wrong. She's
Speaker 1: there with a kid. I'm the nanny. I gotta make dinner.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she's cool as a cute ca Okay,
Speaker 2: there's an underlying of nervous. Yes. She's like, you're right,
Speaker 2: it must be ready. He's gonna come home. I have
Speaker 2: to clean. He doesn't like people here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, lead, well, but you're also you know what happens
Speaker 1: in this episode when you're rewatching. I'm just saying like
Speaker 1: she okay, she's not cool on the cool of the
Speaker 1: cucumber scale.
Speaker 2: She's like, listen, he's coming home at six. You can
Speaker 2: talk to him too. We're fine. I need to, you know,
Speaker 2: come cook dinners. Version of a Romanian nanny being cool.
Speaker 2: That's her your impression, Listen. She just was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Everything's fine, like a little bit like that, but yes,
Speaker 1: you do, you do sense, like you sense that she's
Speaker 1: really nervous and wants them to get out of the
Speaker 1: house because she's gonna get in trouble if like they
Speaker 1: come home and dinner, yeah, and dinner's not ready. So
Speaker 1: Audrey McDonald brings up to the cops like, oh, she
Speaker 1: could have Stockholm syndrome, which we all know about Stockholm syndrome,
Speaker 1: and I get.
Speaker 3: They explain it.
Speaker 1: Expositive, like they do a full exposition on the show
Speaker 1: to explain what Stockholm syndrome is. But it's like four
Speaker 1: people in Stockholm were taken into bank robbery, kidnapped and
Speaker 1: like within six days they were like completely emotionally fused
Speaker 1: to their captor and like refused to press charges and
Speaker 1: testified it in their captor's defense.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, I didn't know it was called Stockholm
Speaker 2: syndrome because of a stock in the place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Stockholm, Sweden. Yeah wow, Yeah, so that's where that
Speaker 1: came from. They talk about how the way you kind
Speaker 1: of get someone to submit to you is like threats
Speaker 1: of death and violence interspersed with random acts of kindness.
Speaker 1: So it's like you're you're dying for that person's like
Speaker 1: kindness and affection because their violent side is.
Speaker 3: Stre there also become your lifeline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like they're the reason you have food ever, right,
Speaker 2: or you have anything. Yeah, so your like love to
Speaker 2: them becomes an act of survival yeah, and not weakness.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So we see Munch's session with the shrink. He's making
Speaker 1: jokes about blow up dolls. I mean, you know, Munch
Speaker 1: is he's the least of the crew. Yeah, that's I
Speaker 1: would say, that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 3: Over month, Munch.
Speaker 2: Would just be like making weird jokes. I feel, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you'd have to be on top. I think
Speaker 2: it's like a lot of effort. You'd be like reading
Speaker 2: a book. But we do learn I'm sorry that Munch
Speaker 2: has been married multiple times, some beautiful, dumb spoiled women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we meet his wives throughout, Like Carol Caine plays
Speaker 1: one of his.
Speaker 2: Wife, but she doesn't seem like a dumb, spoiled Yeah,
Speaker 2: she seems like I think they move away from the
Speaker 2: narrative a little as they introduce those wives later in
Speaker 2: the season. But I just love this unfuckable, melancholy like
Speaker 2: conspiracy detective getting like young twenty five year old dumb bitches.
Speaker 3: I I just don't get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like, you don't have the money for
Speaker 1: those dumb women like they they're.
Speaker 3: Gonna want more. Yeah, and that's probably why he ended
Speaker 3: up in divorce.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Back at the Morrow's brownstone, the neighbors say that
Speaker 1: Elena has only been with the family for a year.
Speaker 1: They say that the wife is a vet and that
Speaker 1: the husband is a Wall Street guy. So now we
Speaker 1: finally get to meet Randolph Morrow. This guy who is
Speaker 1: the uh one who bought Elena this ticket? It's Andrew McCarthy,
Speaker 1: classic actor from a lot of movies. I grew up
Speaker 1: with Weekend at Bernie's.
Speaker 3: Like a comedy, and in this he is stands up
Speaker 3: on my a.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I've actually seen him in a stage production
Speaker 1: of A Long Day's Journey in Tonight. He's like a
Speaker 1: dramatic actor, so I think that he's very well like
Speaker 1: New York theater a little bit too.
Speaker 2: And that's like, oh, I hope he's not as evil
Speaker 2: as he portrays. I hope act I mean you sense
Speaker 2: evil and vicious from his immediate moment on screen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely gives you a control freak psycho vibe,
Speaker 1: like the minute you see him, like he makes the
Speaker 1: he doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't like where Benson sits. He
Speaker 1: keeps trying to get her to move because she didn't
Speaker 1: sit where he wanted her to sit, like it's creepy.
Speaker 1: And then his secretary comes in and he does that
Speaker 1: whole what did we say about the blinds?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: I hate like when someone talks to you like you're
Speaker 1: a child, you know, like even though I would never
Speaker 1: talk to a child that l Like, what did we
Speaker 1: say about the blinds? I'm gonna say that to my kid?
Speaker 1: What did we say about throwing our milk across the room?
Speaker 1: Trust me, it doesn't work. She does it every goddamn day,
Speaker 1: all right, not less about me. So on the way
Speaker 1: out of the office, they questioned him in his office
Speaker 1: and he's very confident, and it's just kind of like,
Speaker 1: what's the big deal Elena came to work with us?
Speaker 1: My neighbors don't know anything to just say that she's
Speaker 1: been around a year, like.
Speaker 3: They don't know anything.
Speaker 1: So uh, Bentson on the way out plucks a hair
Speaker 1: right off his suit, just as like, oh, you got
Speaker 1: something there and plucks a hair. You have to have
Speaker 1: the root intact. So it's like a little crazy that
Speaker 1: he had a perfectly intact hair with a root follicle
Speaker 1: attached on his seat.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like I'd be a bad detective
Speaker 2: because I thought she was just fucking with him because
Speaker 2: he's the order and just like to like him a little.
Speaker 3: What it was, it was a double.
Speaker 2: Also get evidence like that is why Olivia's That's why
Speaker 2: she's that's content.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, it turns out Constunta was killed with something
Speaker 1: called I think they're saying bututhanasia, Like it sounds like
Speaker 1: euthanasia with a B in front of it, bututhanasia.
Speaker 2: Oh we miss some maloney joke I want to say.
Speaker 2: In the office, he goes, when they're leaving, he goes,
Speaker 2: but the couch was comfortable she refused to sit on,
Speaker 2: So I thought that was.
Speaker 1: You know, okay, So content was colesing called buthin asia,
Speaker 1: which is used to put animals to sleeve. So now
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to put two and two together
Speaker 1: that this man's wife is a vet. So they go
Speaker 1: see doctor Morrow. She is completely fucking zonked on pills.
Speaker 1: Like she just seems like a total like space case.
Speaker 1: She's very cagey about talking about Elena. She's like, we
Speaker 1: have our routine, Like she's just very not doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like a person in her right mind. The vet tech
Speaker 1: thevet assistant is Michael Kelly aka Doug Stamper from House
Speaker 1: of Cards. If you watch House of Cards and I
Speaker 1: would have sex with him. Yeah, he's in a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff.
Speaker 2: He was a bad guy in House of Cards and
Speaker 2: I was still like, you get has that silly bald
Speaker 2: with the hair.
Speaker 3: Around What is that called?
Speaker 1: I always just call it like Bozo the clown, But
Speaker 1: his doesn't really like that because it's not fluffy.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I think guys should just go completely bald.
Speaker 1: That this is a tangent, but you should just go
Speaker 1: completely bald ifyct same people.
Speaker 2: Her heads are really oddly shaped and I understand their
Speaker 2: grasp for their hair, I guess anyway.
Speaker 1: And also Michael Kelly later plays a guy who rapes
Speaker 1: women on a schedule to impregnate them.
Speaker 3: Later in SVU, do you remember that episode now that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these women keep getting visited by the same rapist
Speaker 1: on a calendar, and it's because he is like master
Speaker 1: race trying to impregnate like do eugenics essentially, and like
Speaker 1: breed mean.
Speaker 2: Is I know you don't love when they bring people back,
Speaker 2: but this vetec could be the same person takes a
Speaker 2: complete turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah they could, I guess we see jeffries in with
Speaker 1: the shrink. Now she's like really jazzed up about having
Speaker 1: a near death experience recently. She's like, this job basically
Speaker 1: ends in my personal life and I was celibate up
Speaker 1: until this incident where I almost died, And now she's
Speaker 1: like seeing a bunch of different men, and she volunteers
Speaker 1: a story about going home with a guy that she
Speaker 1: meets at a bar who she ohs was a suspect
Speaker 1: in a case recently, and.
Speaker 2: They get mad at her for this, But like, if
Speaker 2: the person is found not guilty, anyone brought in, you
Speaker 2: can't date like a suspect. Like, yeah, I just feel
Speaker 2: suspect is a real broad thing. But maybe those are
Speaker 2: just the rules.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe those are the rules.
Speaker 1: Don't fuck suspects Also, if you couldn't fuck suspects, you
Speaker 1: literally couldn't fuck like anyone in New York. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: the Vetex shows up. He Michael Kelly shows up to
Speaker 1: tell them that, yes, doctor Morrow has been stealing buthan
Speaker 1: Asia from work. It's like, I guess because of being
Speaker 1: a veterinarian is a stressful job. Like they steal drugs
Speaker 1: a lot. Doctor Morrow. They get her in for questioning
Speaker 1: and she's like, sexuality is about reaching our limits and
Speaker 1: transcending them. Like she seems like a woman in la
Speaker 1: that would sell candles or something. Doctor Morrow admits to
Speaker 1: sedating and killing Constanta. She's like, she came to our house,
Speaker 1: she threatened our routine, so she killed her raptor in
Speaker 1: a rug and dumped her off the West Side Highway.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you could do this when you're
Speaker 1: like basically in a k hole, but I guess she
Speaker 1: somehow did it. The cops run to the Morrow house
Speaker 1: to arrest Randolph.
Speaker 3: They break in.
Speaker 1: He's burning photographs that are like really graphic of torture,
Speaker 1: and they find a torture closet in the bathroom which
Speaker 1: is like just you know, a face mask and like
Speaker 1: shackles and all this.
Speaker 3: They bring Marow in for questioning.
Speaker 1: He is like, yeah, he's just like douche chills, Like
Speaker 1: he just really is like so creepy with how confident
Speaker 1: he is and acting like he's done nothing wrong. Olivia
Speaker 1: leaves so that Stabler can take a run at this guy.
Speaker 1: And I think it's notable how many times that happens,
Speaker 1: Like there are so many times throughout the course of
Speaker 1: this show that Olivia has to leave the room because
Speaker 1: being a woman is just aggravating the man so much,
Speaker 1: like just her being a beautiful woman. I think, who's
Speaker 1: smart and in their face. It's like they disarm men
Speaker 1: by having them just go head to head with Maloney
Speaker 1: because like the woman is like, oh yes, Maloney always
Speaker 1: is like ah, I fucking hate that dumb yeah, and
Speaker 1: how stupid men are that It's like, of course Maloney
Speaker 1: would hate this woman partner, and yeah, they give in
Speaker 1: right away to talk shit of coormus. They just are
Speaker 1: like misogynists psychopaths who need to talk man to man
Speaker 1: with Stabler. So he tells Sabler how he loves to
Speaker 1: torture women, but it's consensual, so a judge will not
Speaker 1: grant the warrant and said that NYC and New York
Speaker 1: is filled with whips and bondage.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean there's a crime.
Speaker 1: Doctor Morrow is in the hospital detoxing from a long
Speaker 1: ketamine addiction, and Benson and Stabler break her down by
Speaker 1: saying that her daughter could be the next victim.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we learned the wife was part of the torture,
Speaker 2: like she was abused.
Speaker 1: Yes, And then she was like, the reason I allowed
Speaker 1: this is because it moved him off of me. And
Speaker 1: then the idea of him moving on to her daughter
Speaker 1: is so scary to her that she gives them information.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler are still interrogating Andrew McCarthy and they're
Speaker 1: like taking turns basically almost kissing him. They're like right
Speaker 1: up in his face and like he keeps moving his
Speaker 1: head side to side, and they're both right there with
Speaker 1: their mouths like.
Speaker 3: Right next to him.
Speaker 1: And he brags about how he controls Elena, how she
Speaker 1: doesn't eat, sleep, or urinate without his his say so,
Speaker 1: and then Stabler kind of messes with him a little
Speaker 1: bit and is.
Speaker 3: Like, we force you to move her, didn't we? And
Speaker 3: he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He smirks, so basically he's talking about her in the
Speaker 1: present tense, so we know she's alive and we know
Speaker 1: that she is probably in the house because he does
Speaker 1: not feel nervous about the whole moving Elena thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's an arrogant smirk. It's this thing
Speaker 2: of like, oh you think I moved her, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: better than you and that and that's that's the hoisted
Speaker 2: by your own petard. And then that's the smirk that
Speaker 2: gives Stabler the recognition to be like, oh, never mind, yeah,
Speaker 2: we didn't.
Speaker 3: Fucking yeah. It's amazing. You love that phrase, I because
Speaker 3: it happens so much.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like, it's the best way to describe
Speaker 2: it when your confidence is what brings you down.
Speaker 3: So they basically rush back to the Morrow house.
Speaker 1: They pull like a bunch of wooden like slabs off
Speaker 1: of the bed and pull out this coffin.
Speaker 3: Where Elena is being kept under the bed.
Speaker 1: She's like gasping for breath, and so they've rescued Elena.
Speaker 3: So that's what's so heartbreaking of this scene.
Speaker 2: So we realize she's been kept in a coffin, a box,
Speaker 2: wood box underneath the bed, and her first reaction is
Speaker 2: I was quiet. Tell him I was yeah, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't make any noise. I didn't make any noise.
Speaker 3: Tell him, I didn't make a sound. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we wrap up the episode with Stabler is in
Speaker 1: with his session with the shrink, and you know, he says.
Speaker 3: You ever see a child with mils with no soul?
Speaker 3: I have? Okay, So that's just a little bit tough
Speaker 3: way to go out.
Speaker 1: And he does say he thinks about killing the people
Speaker 1: who do the crimes that he sees every day.
Speaker 3: So then the shrinks therapy is a witch hunt. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we end with Alder McDonald going up to Craigan
Speaker 1: with her findings and saying everyone was mostly okay, but
Speaker 1: I have to recommend that one person be removed from
Speaker 1: duty immediately. They want you to think it's maloney because
Speaker 1: what he said is kind of crazy that he dreams
Speaker 1: about killing killers, but actually that's probably normal, and we
Speaker 1: find out at the first episode of the next season,
Speaker 1: season two, that it's Jeffrey's. She is no longer I
Speaker 1: guess trying to fuck suspects is a deal breaker at
Speaker 1: the Old SVU, And at the end of that episode,
Speaker 1: Iced Tea walks in and a bull's outfit colored and
Speaker 1: walks into the squadroom and into our hearts and he
Speaker 1: never had an he hasn't left sin No.
Speaker 2: And what's wild is you know, it says it's haunted
Speaker 2: us forever, that box under the bed, But when even
Speaker 2: discussing the episode, we don't see the stuff, like even
Speaker 2: the whole talking it's not like we see her getting
Speaker 2: whipped and chained, and it's still something that's so horrific.
Speaker 3: Yes, like horrific. She was under that bed for like that.
Speaker 1: Well, also you have to think back to the fact
Speaker 1: that they said that she wasn't working for them until
Speaker 1: for only a year, So for the first two years
Speaker 1: he had her, he was probably breaking her down so
Speaker 1: that she would be able to nanny his kids and
Speaker 1: be out in public and not fully like turning her
Speaker 1: into a slave.
Speaker 3: So that's like, so this is the episode.
Speaker 2: It's like, what you don't know is what's the scariest,
Speaker 2: like because the actual episode is not the job being open.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's not that graphic and it's not that violent.
Speaker 2: It's just like it breaks my spirit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well well, honeyway get ready, get ready to have
Speaker 1: your spirit broken. Even farther as Lisa takes us through
Speaker 1: the true crime that this was based on.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back, welcome back.
Speaker 2: This is an insane crime Colleen Stan And before I start,
Speaker 2: I want to say she is like the bravest, strongest
Speaker 2: human I've ever ever read about in my life, Like
Speaker 2: everything she's been through.
Speaker 3: And then I watched the documentary Girl in the Box.
Speaker 2: There's two p arts, and she goes back to the
Speaker 2: places where she was held captive. She goes back to
Speaker 2: the houses, she goes through everything she stood trial for
Speaker 2: three days, like said, everything that's happened to her. She
Speaker 2: has gone back to his parole hearings to speak like
Speaker 2: the fact that she has a life, a child relations.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is like truly amazing. So before I start,
Speaker 2: I just want to say Colling stan Is shout out,
Speaker 2: you're a Stan for Colleen Stan. Yeah, she's like incredible.
Speaker 2: The other thing I want to say that I hate
Speaker 2: is this guy, mister Hooker.
Speaker 3: His last name is Hooker.
Speaker 2: He is up for parole early in March because of
Speaker 2: COVID and they're trying to release popular like older populations
Speaker 2: for COVID.
Speaker 3: And I hope this man dies. And so if you
Speaker 3: think this man deserves parole after you listen to this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, put in our notes the way to contact
Speaker 2: the parole board and what to do to make sure
Speaker 2: that they don't release this man.
Speaker 3: I don't think. I can't imagine the.
Speaker 2: Judge when he was set in he said, I would
Speaker 2: like to say, I consider this defendant the most dangerous
Speaker 2: psychopath I've ever dealt with. So I don't think they're
Speaker 2: going to release him. But just the fact that he's
Speaker 2: up for parole in March and with COVID and I
Speaker 2: just don't I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes me nervous. It makes me nervous for everyone.
Speaker 3: And I know because he is supposed to be up
Speaker 3: for parole again until like twenty thirty. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but walk us through what happened so that we've's dangerous,
Speaker 1: psychopathic Colleen.
Speaker 2: It's the seventies. She's a spirit. She goes to live
Speaker 2: in Eugene, Oregon.
Speaker 3: Beautiful part of the country. I've been to Eugene. It's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: It's like a hippie central. I mean, she had kind
Speaker 2: of a show life. There was she said, average life.
Speaker 2: This happened in California. You know, there was a little
Speaker 2: bit of like she had a sister.
Speaker 3: She had parents.
Speaker 2: The parents were divorced, which mild drama. You know, she
Speaker 2: fell in love, got married, divorced really young, but nothing
Speaker 2: that crazy and whatever.
Speaker 3: So it's the seventies.
Speaker 2: She's in Eugene and she decides she want to surprise
Speaker 2: her friend for her birthday four hundred miles away, and
Speaker 2: she wants to hitchhike. And hitchhiking wasn't that crazy as
Speaker 2: it is now, and obviously is a dangerous thing to do,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't that wild of an option.
Speaker 1: I think the seventies are the reason that people don't
Speaker 1: hitchhike now because everybody was just doing it willy nilly,
Speaker 1: and it's truly like just serial killers.
Speaker 3: Just out fishing. Like yeah, and.
Speaker 2: And I related to this, and it was like this
Speaker 2: could be met because I would want to surprise my
Speaker 2: friend for her birthday.
Speaker 3: That's something I loved. You to take a megabus, You
Speaker 3: wouldn't hitchhike. Yes, I would take a megabus.
Speaker 2: But I understand this, And what's scary is, well, we'll
Speaker 2: get to it, but the surprise element. And I remember
Speaker 2: one time I felt unsafe with a fret. A few
Speaker 2: of us on the train's platform and a man was
Speaker 2: being weird, and I made sure to keep saying, text
Speaker 2: the cousin, make sure she knows. There was no cousin, right,
Speaker 2: but we were like, make sure she knows we're coming,
Speaker 2: she knows we're meeting her. And then the guy we
Speaker 2: were with, fucking idiot, was like, what I thought.
Speaker 3: We're going home. We're trying to.
Speaker 2: Ourselves, but you know, you don't want any You want
Speaker 2: to make sure that people are waiting to know.
Speaker 3: People know where you are and you're expecting you, because
Speaker 3: I bet they were like, what are you up to?
Speaker 2: And she's like, I'm surprising a friend and that's like horrific, yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's.
Speaker 3: Like no one knows that you were on your way
Speaker 3: was a surprise.
Speaker 2: She There were two other offers to get into cars.
Speaker 2: One was like a giant group of guys and she's like.
Speaker 3: No, thanks, thanks.
Speaker 2: The other one was this couple and they weren't going
Speaker 2: far enough, so she's like, don't worry about it. And
Speaker 2: then this couple was a young man, a woman and
Speaker 2: a baby, so of course that seems safe. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a baby, a baby, and so it's an eight
Speaker 2: month old baby. It's a blue dodge, and so she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to get into this car.
Speaker 3: This makes sense.
Speaker 2: She did have an uneasy feeling. She wasn't feeling good.
Speaker 2: She saw him look at her in the rear view mirror.
Speaker 2: She didn't like it. And she kept rejecting those feelings.
Speaker 2: And she kept saying, they're nice, they're nice, shut up,
Speaker 2: shut up. And this is so important. I feel women
Speaker 2: do that way too much. I've done it and and
Speaker 2: things that aren't as important as this, you know, but well,
Speaker 2: actually a tattoo for life where you ignore your instincts
Speaker 2: and we're taught to ignore instincts or that were and.
Speaker 3: Don't be rude. Yeah, don't be like make the make
Speaker 3: the situation like easy, like okay.
Speaker 2: And she said they asked a lot of questions about her.
Speaker 2: She didn't say anything about them. I can see myself
Speaker 2: doing that chatting, chatting, chatting and not asking a question. So,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's really hard to watch this and
Speaker 2: see how easily it could happen to so many different people,
Speaker 2: because I for sure can see myself just answering questions
Speaker 2: and not asking anything back. So she went to the
Speaker 2: bathroom in the gas station, and she said she heard
Speaker 2: a voice going jump out the window and run jump
Speaker 2: out the window, rent, and she ignored it, and she says,
Speaker 2: you know, she relives that over and over, of course.
Speaker 2: And then when she got back in the car, she
Speaker 2: saw there was like a wooden box in the car
Speaker 2: that wasn't there before watching the porn. I watch, I
Speaker 2: know exactly what this is, and a wooden head box.
Speaker 2: But she he doesn't know that, and so she goes,
Speaker 2: that's weird. Then the family goes, we're going to go
Speaker 2: look at some ice caves, which seems, you know, fine,
Speaker 2: we're in whatever. She goes, Okay, I didn't know there
Speaker 2: was ice caves. I don't see any signs. They must
Speaker 2: know where the nature is. Janice goes to the stream
Speaker 2: with this baby. He jumps in the back seat, knife
Speaker 2: to her throat, handcuffs her hands behind her back. She
Speaker 2: was so scared she could not believe this is happening.
Speaker 2: He said, are you going to do what I tell
Speaker 2: you to do? She said yes. He put a gag
Speaker 2: in her mouth and put like a leather chin hood
Speaker 2: thing on her and said like she couldn't open her
Speaker 2: mouth or do anything. He laid her down and put
Speaker 2: the box over her head. So she has a wooden box,
Speaker 2: a gag, and this leather thing and she there's patting
Speaker 2: all over her face. She can't breathe. And then he
Speaker 2: puts a sleeping bag over her body, so now you
Speaker 2: don't know where it is. And she hears the wife
Speaker 2: and child come back, and in that moment, she goes,
Speaker 2: oh my god. The wife knew everything that was going
Speaker 2: to happen, and she said nothing, like what the fuck,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? And they're driving forever, forever, forever, you know,
Speaker 2: to confuse her. I'm sure she does hear the traffic
Speaker 2: of the city, so she knows she's back in the city,
Speaker 2: but she's like, what are they doing?
Speaker 3: She just doesn't understand why they're doing this to her.
Speaker 2: Obviously, he marched her into the basement. He stood her
Speaker 2: up on something, and then he took off all her
Speaker 2: clothes and he handcuffed her wrists like Jesus' style, like
Speaker 2: on the hooks on the ceiling, and released the box
Speaker 2: from under her. So she is now suspended, suspending, and
Speaker 2: she said it's like the worst pain she has ever experienced.
Speaker 2: And she's just hanging there and he starts whipping her
Speaker 2: and she's crying. I mean, it's like, it's awful. I
Speaker 2: can't imagine being someone experiencing anything like that.
Speaker 3: He told her to shut up and hang there.
Speaker 2: She was always blindfolded, always gagged, always restrained in some way,
Speaker 2: and she never saw anything but the bottom of the
Speaker 2: floor for months, like only what she could see from
Speaker 2: the bottom of the blindfold.
Speaker 3: She never saw anything.
Speaker 2: And then one time she saw all these BDSM magazines
Speaker 2: and then the couple was like fucking. So while she's
Speaker 2: like in pain, suspended, they're like fucking and She's like,
Speaker 2: who the fuck are these people? And she said she
Speaker 2: was really naive, like she was twenty but she did
Speaker 2: feel naive. And I'm going to get ahead of myself
Speaker 2: for a little bit and just let you know she
Speaker 2: lived through this for seven.
Speaker 3: And a half years.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, they kept her captive for seven and
Speaker 2: a half years.
Speaker 3: Just like if you're.
Speaker 2: Listening to this now and you're like, holy shit, just
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying, the strength of this woman, because
Speaker 2: it's really fucked up.
Speaker 3: So the man is Cameron Hooker.
Speaker 2: He's twenty three years old, Janie, the woman is nineteen
Speaker 2: years and they are married. They are and what we
Speaker 2: learn is later on that they started dating when she
Speaker 2: was fifteen years old, and so he did this to her,
Speaker 2: And I think that's I was thinking a lot about
Speaker 2: like statutory ray and like the age of consent and
Speaker 2: all of that, and I think that's why it's important.
Speaker 2: They were saying, how you know, she's so young, and
Speaker 2: she might have not had any sexual understanding before that,
Speaker 2: and so this jet that could have been what she
Speaker 2: thought sexual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is it's violence.
Speaker 2: Never had a sexual positive experience, And that's why pedophile.
Speaker 1: Like, that's why you groom young victory. That's like what
Speaker 1: this is all about.
Speaker 3: How them do the things you like, no matter how
Speaker 3: to brave.
Speaker 2: And that's why we're we have to be so protective
Speaker 2: of young people and predators. You know, he unhooked her,
Speaker 2: he put the head back in the box, He shoved
Speaker 2: her into a crate from the head down, chained her
Speaker 2: wrists and feet in the crate, and he just left
Speaker 2: her there. She was freaking out, and she just said
Speaker 2: it was so hard because all night she had to
Speaker 2: gasp for air.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she couldn't breathe.
Speaker 2: And so I think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs in
Speaker 2: this way where It's like, all of a sudden, everything
Speaker 2: she's focused on is just survival, so she can't even
Speaker 2: think outside of anything besides, like, I need to breathe.
Speaker 3: I need to breathe. They need to breathe.
Speaker 2: And everything was so hard, and she was so exhausted
Speaker 2: by the time morning came, gasping for air. He removes her,
Speaker 2: puts her on the table, ties her. Und you know,
Speaker 2: there's just like a lot of torture happening. The friends
Speaker 2: really like the roommates are worried. The friend is worried.
Speaker 2: The parents haven't heard of her. So on the fourth
Speaker 2: day she's missing, the roommate's file a missing person's report.
Speaker 2: Days turned into weeks. The families, of course sad. The
Speaker 2: parents start their own search. They keep redriving her journey,
Speaker 2: filing missing person reports in every town that they can.
Speaker 2: At one time they realized they stayed in a motel
Speaker 2: just blocks away from her. Oh my gosh, and just
Speaker 2: no fucking idea, the sister said. The police did what
Speaker 2: they can with like the little clues they have, I mean,
Speaker 2: can you do she just hopped in a car and
Speaker 2: vanish and they would, you know, contact the mother once
Speaker 2: in a while, but then at some point I think
Speaker 2: everyone the trio went cold, Yeah, and they just thought
Speaker 2: of the worst. So now we're at two months in captivity.
Speaker 2: She and every night suspending her, whipping her, stretching her,
Speaker 2: you know, controlled when she ate slept, bathroom, just everything
Speaker 2: was about her. There was a bedpan in a chair like,
Speaker 2: and he watched her do everything, and she learned to
Speaker 2: survive as to obey m M.
Speaker 3: And that's what happened.
Speaker 2: And one time he put a knife to her throat
Speaker 2: and said, go ahead and scream and I'll cut your
Speaker 2: vocal cords. And God spoke to her in that moment
Speaker 2: and said, do not scream. He is telling you the truth.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I'm someone that doesn't really believe
Speaker 3: in God.
Speaker 2: I'm like not into religion at all, and then hearing
Speaker 2: this story, it's like I thought about Bruce Almighty and everyone.
Speaker 3: I don't know if anyone's seen.
Speaker 2: That movie, but everyone wishing God stuff and wanting things,
Speaker 2: and it's like he's busy with people like this, and
Speaker 2: I don't know about like, if there was a God,
Speaker 2: why would he let someone be in this? But like
Speaker 2: listening her talk about her spiritual journey did really you know,
Speaker 2: not change my mind, but I understood, like what God
Speaker 2: is for, and it's for it's to help people out
Speaker 2: of situations like this and find the lights. So it's like,
Speaker 2: stop wishing for dumb shit, like he's busy. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: what I kept thinking, Like he's keeping her alive. He
Speaker 2: built a more permanent cage under the stairs and that
Speaker 2: became her workshop, and he would put her to work
Speaker 2: there so she would like crack open walnuts or whatever
Speaker 2: he made her do. But she was so happy because
Speaker 2: she had room, so like being in a cage under
Speaker 2: the stairs was freedom.
Speaker 1: So she's just sitting yeah, like happily cracking walnuts like
Speaker 1: this is the life.
Speaker 3: For months, months, I mean fucking months.
Speaker 2: And then so January, we're at eight months in camp
Speaker 2: activity and the documentary goes and there's a darker turn
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, could it get darker?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: So basically this is where it does get darker. He invents.
Speaker 2: She doesn't know this, but he says, there's an organization
Speaker 2: called the Company, and it is a human sex trafficking
Speaker 2: slavery organization. They're giant, powerful underground. This is a contractor
Speaker 2: my slave for life if you try to do anywhere,
Speaker 2: go anywhere. The company will get you. You will get
Speaker 2: your family, They'll get your family. And she signs this
Speaker 2: contract to be a slave forever. It's kind of like
Speaker 2: did you see the Little Mermaid? Yes, kidnapped in plain sight?
Speaker 2: I think is what it's called.
Speaker 3: No, Oh my god, you gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: Like they would basically be like aliens are coming and
Speaker 1: like we're the only ones that can stop it, and
Speaker 1: like it's not the same thing as the company, but
Speaker 1: it's like they got people really invested in this, like
Speaker 1: grand conspiracy, and was like you're part of it.
Speaker 3: We need to do that, you know, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: was just thinking about it. Is it Cloverfield Lane with
Speaker 3: John Goodman?
Speaker 5: I don't know?
Speaker 2: That was a fucking that was there was a twitter
Speaker 2: that was.
Speaker 3: A good movie. Whatever.
Speaker 2: So she asks what happens if I don't sign it?
Speaker 2: And he said, I'm going to make you wish you
Speaker 2: had so, and she knew what he is capable of,
Speaker 2: and he signed it, and he gave her a new
Speaker 2: name and everything, a nightgown to wear, and he started
Speaker 2: letting her out to do chores. She was obviously looks
Speaker 2: sound speak when you're spoken to and that's it, sir master.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, ma'am. All of that. She ran away.
Speaker 2: She believed that the company would catch her and nail
Speaker 2: her to playing some lever in the woods.
Speaker 3: So she was very committed here.
Speaker 2: What was weird to Colleen was Janice treated Colleen like
Speaker 2: she was the other woman. Like Colleen wanted to be there,
Speaker 2: like Janice was competing and.
Speaker 3: Jealous and and and like not to if you're going
Speaker 3: to mention this, but like I know where exactly where
Speaker 3: you're going out.
Speaker 1: Just they had a contract, They had an agreement together
Speaker 1: right about what he could do with her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically like because Janie was his victim for so
Speaker 2: long and she was just tired, she said, go get
Speaker 2: another slave. But my post like fucking is just for
Speaker 2: me because basically it was like, if you get yourself
Speaker 2: another slave, I want another baby, Like you can fuck
Speaker 2: me and get me pregnant and you can beat this
Speaker 2: other person. So it was survival for her because obviously
Speaker 2: we hate this woman. Janis like, it's really hard not to.
Speaker 2: She's also abused. This is super layered and so it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's hard. But the dark turn is he blindfolded her
Speaker 2: Gager took her upstairs and he started to rape her,
Speaker 2: and she was praying.
Speaker 3: To God she wanted to get out of this.
Speaker 2: And then the wife was super mad that their deal
Speaker 2: was not being upheld. Yeah, so he was really mad
Speaker 2: and the wife was even more mad. But he started
Speaker 2: raping Colleen when Janie was away or in secret or
Speaker 2: late at night, and he would make sure to always
Speaker 2: wear a condom to make sure that he did not
Speaker 2: impregnate her. So now we're at April, eleven months in captivity,
Speaker 2: he moves the family. This is where it becomes very
Speaker 2: SVU episode. So eleven months after captivity, he moves the
Speaker 2: family to a mobile home that's further away from people.
Speaker 2: He didn't like that there were neighbors in this house.
Speaker 2: The problem is there's no basement, and this is where
Speaker 2: he builds the under the bed coffin box that she
Speaker 2: spends twenty three hours a day, and it's under a waterbed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you're just sitting there, thirsty and gasping for
Speaker 1: air for twenty three hours a day, under the sloshing
Speaker 1: of a waterbed of these of these monsters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Janice gave birth to their second baby on that waterbed.
Speaker 2: She heard all of it, and she said that he
Speaker 2: let her out to look at the baby and then
Speaker 2: put her back in the box. And she was saying,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's about she goes one smell, one moment,
Speaker 2: one sound, and I'm back there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And there was a bedpan in the box and she
Speaker 2: had to like kick it up with her leg until
Speaker 2: she can hold it and then move it under her butt,
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom and then kick it back to
Speaker 2: her feet and then just be in the box.
Speaker 3: Silent because he doesn't want any You can't hear about
Speaker 3: it anymore. I know, I'll stop.
Speaker 2: It's really like I said, it's just so then she
Speaker 2: started taking care of the girls.
Speaker 3: She started and this, you know, going out for jogs.
Speaker 3: So she's now she's allowed fully out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, now you know, jogs around the neighborhood, taking
Speaker 2: care of the kids. People said she's a living babysitter.
Speaker 2: Even the little kids had no clue. He'd sometimes take
Speaker 2: her out of the box and put her in the
Speaker 2: bathroom with a chain around her neck, and.
Speaker 3: Again that was like a great vacation.
Speaker 2: And he gave her a Bible then, and that really
Speaker 2: helped her and guided her so we will will fast
Speaker 2: forward march for four years in captivity, the abductor let
Speaker 2: her phone home and tell the family that she was visiting.
Speaker 3: And this is the most power trip fucked up. This
Speaker 3: is what's.
Speaker 2: Confusing to I'm sure everyone always why did you run away?
Speaker 3: Why didn't you tell someone? Why didn't you? And later
Speaker 3: we'll meet the prosecutor.
Speaker 2: But she's like, yeah, she's acting crazy, because who's not
Speaker 2: gonna act crazy after all?
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course she's gonna not act normal.
Speaker 2: How do you expect someone to act normal after going
Speaker 2: through all of this and the expectations we put on
Speaker 2: victims is so fuck But this is really fucked And
Speaker 2: this is what the defense used in evidence when we
Speaker 2: get to the trial. He dropped her off at her
Speaker 2: family's house overnight and left. She didn't say a word.
Speaker 2: Then that's how confident he was in his power over her. Woeaw,
Speaker 2: she took like photos with him, hugging, laughing. She yeah,
Speaker 2: he let her hang out with the family. She was
Speaker 2: just so scared of the company and the family being
Speaker 2: hurt that she didn't say anything. And she went back
Speaker 2: with him and those photos and that experience was like
Speaker 2: what the defense tried to use to you know, say
Speaker 2: that she was and then to explain their relationship.
Speaker 3: That was her boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that's why they took these romantic pictures
Speaker 2: together and the family. And the thing is the sister
Speaker 2: was like, the clothes look weird. She's lost all this weight.
Speaker 2: She knew this is again instincts, but the mom took
Speaker 2: her aside, and so stop pressuring her, stop pushing her.
Speaker 3: She's in a cult, and what if she doesn't come back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they wanted to play nice to make sure
Speaker 2: they could see her again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then even the dad is like, I can't believe
Speaker 2: I didn't write down the license plate. Right. If I
Speaker 2: just wrote down the license plate, we could have gotten
Speaker 2: her right there. Because after that visit, they didn't see
Speaker 2: her again for three and a half years. So it's
Speaker 2: just so fucked up. But she got, you know, at
Speaker 2: least she got to see the family. But she believed
Speaker 2: everything about the company, and they're obviously all upset that
Speaker 2: they haven't been able to see her, and then she
Speaker 2: thought the worst was over.
Speaker 3: But no, he like didn't like.
Speaker 2: That she got to see her family, and he locked
Speaker 2: her back into the box for like twenty three hours
Speaker 2: a day because he gave her too much power, he thought,
Speaker 2: so she was back to fucking being in a nightmare
Speaker 2: situation again, more freedoms. He started letting her sleep on
Speaker 2: the floor, he started letting her go to church, and
Speaker 2: she got a job at a motel cleaning. Now the
Speaker 2: wife finally breaks and she goes to the pastor and
Speaker 2: she doesn't expose everything, but she just says we're in
Speaker 2: a love triangle, and the pastor goes, God would not approve.
Speaker 2: So the wife goes to the motel and says, listen, Cameron,
Speaker 2: there is no company. Cameron's not part of a company.
Speaker 2: It's all lies. The contract was fake, and obviously Colleen's
Speaker 2: whole world is rock. Oh my god, She goes, how
Speaker 2: did I believe this? She starts crying a bunch. We're
Speaker 2: on August tenth, nineteen eighty four. She's like, how did
Speaker 2: you let me do this for so long? Why didn't
Speaker 2: Janis say anything? So, while Cameron worked, Colleen boarded a
Speaker 2: bus for home, and like a final act of defiance,
Speaker 2: she called.
Speaker 3: Him and goes, I'm not yours anymore, Like.
Speaker 1: Go fuck yourself. I control my life, not you. He
Speaker 1: bawled like a baby.
Speaker 2: She got on a bus and left, so he was crying,
Speaker 2: and She's finally free. The joy was overwhelming. She kept
Speaker 2: being like, I bet everyone on the bus can just
Speaker 2: see how fucking happy I am. But she feels foolish
Speaker 2: and guilty obviously, because like, how did I believe that?
Speaker 2: How did I let him do it so for so long?
Speaker 2: Why didn't I run away? I can't even imagine all
Speaker 2: the feelings. She moved in with her dad, but she
Speaker 2: refused to go to the police. She's like, I'm done,
Speaker 2: I'm back, I'm happy. I want to be living my life.
Speaker 2: I want to put it behind me, And she refuses
Speaker 2: to go to the cops, like she's just not interested
Speaker 2: in that. She talked regularly to Janice, though, and Janice
Speaker 2: begged her to go to the police, but she just
Speaker 2: didn't want to.
Speaker 3: Jane inspect her too. Why didn't Janis just go?
Speaker 1: She does fear of implicating herself because she was part
Speaker 1: of it exactly.
Speaker 2: Oh, but she was like scared constantly. She went to
Speaker 2: work with her dad all the time. So three months later,
Speaker 2: you know, she's going to church, she's trying to date again.
Speaker 2: She gets a job cleaning Janice then takes the two daughters,
Speaker 2: leaves the guy she was crying and Janie goes to
Speaker 2: the police and she finally turns on him and this
Speaker 2: I know, it's like, how does this get worse? But
Speaker 2: she also admits that there's another victim.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, one little thing was that at the very
Speaker 1: beginning of being in captivity, when she was in the coffin,
Speaker 1: like under the bed, they put a picture of this
Speaker 1: other woman who had been missing, whose body was never
Speaker 1: found there and said like, this is our first victim.
Speaker 3: If you do anything, you're going to end up like her.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Well, I knew that the photo was there, but she
Speaker 2: didn't know what it. I didn't realize that they were
Speaker 2: that they told her. I think they told her.
Speaker 1: I think that was like a deterrent, like don't don't go,
Speaker 1: don't try anything.
Speaker 2: But there was Emily, Yeah, she said that, like like
Speaker 2: with the coffin and the panels, it's just so hard
Speaker 2: to understand. There was like her purse and then this
Speaker 2: photo of this girl. Now this is where it just saw,
Speaker 2: so Mary Elizabeth. They called her mar Liz. She went missing.
Speaker 2: He wanted to do everything the same. It's the same thing,
Speaker 2: the hitch hiking, the wood box, on the head all
Speaker 2: of that. But his plan was to cut her vocal
Speaker 2: cords so she wouldn't make noise.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she died, Oh my god. Okay, with
Speaker 1: this homemade surgery he wanted to do. And that's when
Speaker 1: it hit Colleen when he was like, if you make
Speaker 1: a noise, I will kill you, and God, being like
Speaker 1: don't do it, it finally hit.
Speaker 3: Her like he's done it before. Yeah, but poor Marlz.
Speaker 2: And the body has never been found, and you know,
Speaker 2: Cameron's not going to tell anyone.
Speaker 3: He's riding in jail, like I said.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Janis tried to find where the body was,
Speaker 2: but like, it's just it's an expansive desert land. You know,
Speaker 2: it's fucking California off of a highway.
Speaker 3: But oh are they were they in California. They weren't
Speaker 3: in Oregon anymore.
Speaker 2: No, it's all in I'm sorry, it's Red Bluff, California.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, and she's from Riverside, California. It's all California. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she was just in Eugene for a little bit of
Speaker 2: her hippie time. All right, So we can't find Marlz.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't want to make generalizations about all
Speaker 2: police on this show, but they fuck up a lot,
Speaker 2: and here is a situation that makes us frustrated and
Speaker 2: want to not like cops. They don't like that Janice Is.
Speaker 2: They're like one cop Legit was like she's a nutbag.
Speaker 2: They used a word that was so fucked up, like
Speaker 2: you know, she was just yes, she's a beaute, like yeah,
Speaker 2: So they were like mad. They are like, well, is
Speaker 2: she reliable?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And that's why I get so mad when people ask
Speaker 2: victims like why don't you go to the police, And
Speaker 2: it's like because the police are mad if you're stressed.
Speaker 2: They don't believe you if you're not stressed, And it's
Speaker 2: like there's no way to be a perfect victim.
Speaker 3: They always find a way to like fuck with you.
Speaker 2: But they were just mad, and they couldn't really rely
Speaker 2: on Janie to be a good witness, but they gave
Speaker 2: her immunity and they gave her a deal in she
Speaker 2: was way more open.
Speaker 3: But it came down to Colleen.
Speaker 2: They needed Colleen to get this person because Janis is
Speaker 2: a fucking lunatic. Oh yeah, they said, basket case. The
Speaker 2: men are just like, she's a fucking basket case, we can't.
Speaker 3: Put her on the stand.
Speaker 2: And then when Colleen is on the stand in the future,
Speaker 2: the prosecutors like it just sucked because she was so calm,
Speaker 2: calm and collected and detached that the jury needs a
Speaker 2: little tears in anger to believe her. So it's like
Speaker 2: the cops don't believe you if you're hysterical, and then
Speaker 2: the jury needs you to cry or they don't think
Speaker 2: it actually happened to you.
Speaker 3: And Colleen was very clear.
Speaker 2: She goes, I knew I couldn't get hysterical because then
Speaker 2: I can't do my job, and my job was to
Speaker 2: explain every single thing that happened to me to put
Speaker 2: this motherfucker away.
Speaker 3: So he's charged. You know, they go to jail.
Speaker 2: Christine Maguire, she is the prosecutor, and she was the
Speaker 2: only female prosecutor in like all the fucking land, and
Speaker 2: thank god she got this case.
Speaker 3: It just came on her desk. That's on dirty.
Speaker 2: But she knew she had a lot of work against her,
Speaker 2: and one she had to prove that Colleen was really
Speaker 2: held against her will, because the defense was going to
Speaker 2: say she loved it. So the box was brought into
Speaker 2: the courtroom, and this is where I talk about her
Speaker 2: strength so much, where it's like all the device, the torture,
Speaker 2: everything was brought in and they blew up a giant
Speaker 2: phote because he took photos. He's a fucking sicko. So
Speaker 2: there were photos of her just like young naked, hanging, suspended,
Speaker 2: whipped up, and to the point where there was one
Speaker 2: juror in this documentary, Debbie King, who was like one
Speaker 2: of the guys in the jury box, was like, oh,
Speaker 2: can we take that photo down?
Speaker 1: Like just looking at you can't even look at it,
Speaker 1: let alone be locked in at one hundred degree box
Speaker 1: for twenty three hours a day like in the keat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't handle the shit that women have to go.
Speaker 1: I'm like almost a promise.
Speaker 2: But the prosecution brought models and like volunteers to get
Speaker 2: into the box and just show how everything was used.
Speaker 3: Janie does go on the stand.
Speaker 2: She talks about how this is happening to her since
Speaker 2: she was fifteen years old. He hung her up while
Speaker 2: she was pregnant. No, and like did fucked up shit
Speaker 2: to her. It's just the most it's just like fucked up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you think the worst, worst, worst, It's like Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy and this.
Speaker 2: Guy, yeah, and just thinking like, is there someone now
Speaker 2: that's like in a situation like this, and how do
Speaker 2: we protect people and how do we get these psychopaths
Speaker 2: out of the world. I don't know, but she was direct,
Speaker 2: cold and matter of fact and she needed to do that.
Speaker 2: But Christine Guire gets it, and we're so lucky she
Speaker 2: was the prosecutor.
Speaker 3: She legit.
Speaker 2: Is like what Christine understood was all of that emotion
Speaker 2: was beat out of her. She couldn't show emotions, she
Speaker 2: couldn't cry, she couldn't scream. So she got the ability
Speaker 2: to show emotion be out of her because that was
Speaker 2: for survival. And then the defense goes at her like
Speaker 2: you're a trollop, you were hitchhiking, you deserve this, you
Speaker 2: went with your fail you loved it, and they start
Speaker 2: being like you called him when you were free, and
Speaker 2: she did, She's fucked. She wrote him love letters. There
Speaker 2: is evidence to kind of showing. And then when he
Speaker 2: went on the stand, he was very much like I
Speaker 2: did kidnap her, and I did torture her and I
Speaker 2: did raper But then she liked it.
Speaker 3: So I don't even know what kind of defense.
Speaker 2: That even, Yeah, but Colleen said she was nervous. She
Speaker 2: was sitting there in the trial being like and can
Speaker 2: you also imagine how strong she has to relive this
Speaker 2: with him staring at her.
Speaker 1: Well, and at one point a little thing I read
Speaker 1: about this they talked about how he was building an
Speaker 1: area in his house, like a basement or something to
Speaker 1: have more slaves. He wanted to have more slaves, and
Speaker 1: that was reminding me of Kimmy Schmidt, like that guy
Speaker 1: who told them you can't come out there's a comment.
Speaker 1: There's like, uh, there's a big comment coming towards the
Speaker 1: world or whatever, and you have to keep doing like
Speaker 1: pumping this crank so you can stay alive. I mean,
Speaker 1: they made that, They made a situation like this into
Speaker 1: a comedy.
Speaker 2: Which is pretty that's a big talent. Yeah, because you
Speaker 2: know we're where this is supposed to be like a
Speaker 2: fan fix show. But this is very hard to make
Speaker 2: a light of, you know. But she was so quiet
Speaker 2: during all this that the kids didn't even know she
Speaker 2: was in the house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're both chatters. I mean I would, I don't.
Speaker 2: I think that's ever. Even the cops. Everyone in this
Speaker 2: documentary is like I couldn't do it. Yeah, I would
Speaker 2: be dead a long time. Now, how do you survive?
Speaker 2: I would have I would have been like, this isn't
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Colleen is.
Speaker 2: Such a hero on top of all this, And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm glad Jannis came forward because, like you mentioned, he
Speaker 2: was building a new place to torture people and he
Speaker 2: was gonna grab another chick, Like, yeah, there was no
Speaker 2: way he was not gonna grab another young woman. He
Speaker 2: was building more superior torture devices and more secretive and
Speaker 2: outside the house, so they really saved women's lives.
Speaker 1: Like you want to really understand how someone gets to
Speaker 1: be like this man, Like how does that happen? What
Speaker 1: switches in your brain that you need to torture people
Speaker 1: for your pleasure?
Speaker 3: It's so weird. Yeah, I mean it's we could read
Speaker 3: a book.
Speaker 2: Well, and I was having personal dilemmas because I was
Speaker 2: like the porn I watch uses all of these equipments,
Speaker 2: but it'size of course, but it is like, what is
Speaker 2: that and why wasn't that enough for him?
Speaker 3: Like why does it need to be full on?
Speaker 2: Because I was like I wonder if it was me,
Speaker 2: if I could be like I'm kind of into this,
Speaker 2: can you just be a little nicer to me? I
Speaker 2: don't I don't know what I would do. But obviously
Speaker 2: the jury is like, why are you jogging, you're shopping,
Speaker 2: you're going to church? Why didn't you do anything? And so,
Speaker 2: and she felt like she was on trial. Colleen legit
Speaker 2: was like, are they gonna fucking believe this?
Speaker 3: Like is this gonna fucking happen?
Speaker 2: Like she was not very happy, and Christine knew she
Speaker 2: had a really big hill to climb, and she was
Speaker 2: able to explain like, of course she loved him. He
Speaker 2: gave her a Bible, food, water, and she learned that
Speaker 2: with her love she got freedom. The more love she gave,
Speaker 2: the more freedom she got, the more grateful she was,
Speaker 2: the more love she had for him. Yeah, he had
Speaker 2: complete control. And to me, it's like, how dumb is
Speaker 2: this jury? Like why don't you get why do you
Speaker 2: expect her to be like I'm out of here, Like
Speaker 2: she's been whipped for years in silent It's just like
Speaker 2: so fucked up, I'm so fucking mad. So doctor Chris
Speaker 2: Hatch is the forensic psychiatrist, and thank God for him,
Speaker 2: he explained all of the questions that the jury had
Speaker 2: before they were even able to.
Speaker 3: Like discuss it.
Speaker 2: So he talked about Stockholm syndrome, corsion, brainwashing, how does
Speaker 2: it affect a person to be broken like that?
Speaker 3: How do you course people to not leave and all
Speaker 3: of that. So he really.
Speaker 2: Helped bring this trial together and there was five and
Speaker 2: a half weeks of deliberation.
Speaker 1: Everyone was pretty numb. It took a toll everyone here,
Speaker 1: the jury deliberating. We oh know, the whole trial, little trial.
Speaker 1: Only two and a half days of deliberation on Halloween.
Speaker 2: Ooh, spooky, thank you for making it funny. Yeah, nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty five, two and a half days of deliberation, which
Speaker 2: seems a lot. But he was found guilty on ten
Speaker 2: out of the eleven counts, and they said that he
Speaker 2: just did an off shocks like he was shocked. And
Speaker 2: his defense also that was that the two women were
Speaker 2: lesbian lovers and they're just trying to kick him out
Speaker 2: and they've turned on him. It's just like God, I
Speaker 2: bet there was one guy on the jury that was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, they seemed kind of demonic. But he
Speaker 2: was sentenced to one hundred and four years in prison.
Speaker 2: And that's what the parole thing is making me so mad,
Speaker 2: being like, if you get three digit years in.
Speaker 3: Prison, you don't get to come out for COVID.
Speaker 2: And the judge again said this is the most evil
Speaker 2: thing ever. And you know, they still haven't not found Mary,
Speaker 2: which is upsetting. But I'm just so thankful for the
Speaker 2: prosecutor and that it was a female. I'm so thankful
Speaker 2: for the forensic psychologist and that Colleen was so brave
Speaker 2: and was able to testify in such a way. But
Speaker 2: she did it, like I said earlier, feel guilt in
Speaker 2: all of this and anxiety, and the psychologist told her
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you did or said while you
Speaker 2: were in captivity, because you survived and you lived.
Speaker 1: And Olivia Benson says that to all the victims, like
Speaker 1: when they come to her, they're like, I should have screamed,
Speaker 1: I should have run, I should have done that, and
Speaker 1: Olivia Benson always says, you did what you had to do.
Speaker 2: You survive and that's why, you know, with like not
Speaker 2: the hatred of police, but like the issues with police
Speaker 2: right now, it is so nice to hear about these
Speaker 2: forensic professionals, detectives, prosecutors that go above and beyond for
Speaker 2: victims and this psychiatrist could have been on the stand
Speaker 2: and left and he took the time to make sure
Speaker 2: to let her know, and she said that freed her,
Speaker 2: that that took so much weight off her shoulders. Again,
Speaker 2: not a fairy tale. She does have a child. She's
Speaker 2: so excited about it. She's been married four times. She
Speaker 2: said it is hard for men to because they feel
Speaker 2: helpless where it's like she's like, I'm gonna have these
Speaker 2: problems forever, and men think it's going to be great
Speaker 2: and we get married and like these issues continue and
Speaker 2: they just can't handle it. But she loves Jesus, she
Speaker 2: loves being with her family, and I do want to
Speaker 2: say it. Does it not only psychological trauma. She's had
Speaker 2: surgeries because of her shoulders, she has back pain, spinal pain,
Speaker 2: Her body took a physical toll after all of that.
Speaker 3: Insane.
Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen, he tried to get early parole. They
Speaker 2: made sure that did not happen, and she did attend
Speaker 2: his parole hearing, which is amazing. They tried to get
Speaker 2: Janis to comment and well the jail obviously obviously the
Speaker 2: fucking psychopath did not want to. Janis had a weird
Speaker 2: qu why she didn't want to participate in the documentary.
Speaker 2: She said, no matter what I would say, the media
Speaker 2: would twist my words and that would portray me as
Speaker 2: a violent person. I am the gentlest person and I
Speaker 2: always have been.
Speaker 1: Okay, and I don't know's a victim, but I mean
Speaker 1: she's probably like I never laid a hand on this girl,
Speaker 1: but she also just never did anything. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess in the end, the reason it didn't last
Speaker 1: forever is because she stopped it. Janice, do you look
Speaker 1: at it that way?
Speaker 2: I just wonder what is she I just wonder what
Speaker 2: she wants to say that she can't say because she
Speaker 2: thinks people would.
Speaker 3: Turn again, would twist it. Yeah, that's like a mystery
Speaker 3: to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I read also that they live. Colleen and Janis
Speaker 1: live very close to each other. They don't they don't know,
Speaker 1: but they don't speak.
Speaker 3: They don't. Yeah, it's like, of course they don't.
Speaker 1: What are they like to get on the phone and
Speaker 1: be like remember that time, Like their whole history together
Speaker 1: is traumatic and horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just want to leave. You know, this
Speaker 2: has been an intense one. But she just really hopes
Speaker 2: her story helps people, so they can move on because
Speaker 2: she wants to move on. And yeah, so that's why
Speaker 2: she feels it's important to come forward as a survivor.
Speaker 2: And that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, thank you everybody for sticking with us through
Speaker 1: that tough one.
Speaker 3: But thanks for the info. Lisa.
Speaker 1: We're going to have an interview with someone from the show.
Speaker 2: All right, guest time, motherfuckers, and it is a really
Speaker 2: big deal.
Speaker 3: This was a very thrilling interview.
Speaker 2: We've been waiting with scheduling everything for kind of months
Speaker 2: to be able to talk to our guest.
Speaker 3: And you know, I put on eyeliner. I was thrilled.
Speaker 2: I was ready, and then my internet stopped working.
Speaker 1: We literally talked for twenty five minutes before on Lisa's
Speaker 1: perfect Internet, and then the moment that this guest popped
Speaker 1: into the zoom room, she was gone.
Speaker 3: I was gone. I was panicked.
Speaker 2: I tried to fix things hotspots, unplugging, plugging, and nothing worked.
Speaker 2: And so I did get to talk to him, which
Speaker 2: was amazing, and I called into the zoom So if
Speaker 2: you don't know that, that is an option.
Speaker 3: To our team. So I was still thrilled to hear
Speaker 3: his voice.
Speaker 2: I was fully in but as soon as the interview ended,
Speaker 2: I did cry pretty hysterically for a little bit, and
Speaker 2: then and then for three days was in a dark depression.
Speaker 2: And then people were like, what's wrong, And because of
Speaker 2: everything going on in the world, I couldn't be honest
Speaker 2: and be like, well, my internet went out and that's
Speaker 2: what costs a full nervous breakdown. But it was incredible,
Speaker 2: and Kara did get to look.
Speaker 3: At him the whole time.
Speaker 1: I did so without further ado. We are I mean,
Speaker 1: this guest truly. We've had some amazing guests on this podcast.
Speaker 1: This guest truly needs no introduction. You know him, you
Speaker 1: love him. He's your favorite alcoholic captain. He has been
Speaker 1: on three hundred and thirty one episodes of your favorite show.
Speaker 1: Long Order, SPU guys, please check out our interview with
Speaker 1: Dan Florik aka Captain Kraigan. You've been on three hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty one episodes of our favorite television show. I
Speaker 1: can't believe we were even able to come up with
Speaker 1: a list of questions for you. That wasn't just lines
Speaker 1: of us screaming We're so excited.
Speaker 5: That's good.
Speaker 1: So I guess you just mentioned before we officially got
Speaker 1: started Lisa is via phone right now, and we were saying,
Speaker 1: this reminds us of the episode nine one one We're
Speaker 1: Benson's on with the Little Girl, and you said one
Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes. So that was one of our
Speaker 1: first questions for you was do you have favorite episodes
Speaker 1: or episodes that have like haunted you?
Speaker 6: Oh wow, well that's a big question. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 6: there are favorite episodes. Nine to one one is one
Speaker 6: of them. There's one in this first year, Hysteria was
Speaker 6: one that I thought was very very special. But also,
Speaker 6: you know, the big problem is I don't remember all.
Speaker 5: The names right. Of course, the episodes.
Speaker 6: To a certain extent, you know, there are usually one
Speaker 6: word in the kind of together and I even remember
Speaker 6: looking at it might have been this one's slaves. Yeah,
Speaker 6: there was something I had with Stabler where I said,
Speaker 6: well let me get this straight. So there might have
Speaker 6: been something with a woman by some guy somewhere.
Speaker 5: In New York.
Speaker 6: That's kind of every episode, yeah, right, you know, certain
Speaker 6: ones mean more to me. I mean I remember a
Speaker 6: couple that where I was featured more, you know, And
Speaker 6: of course those are always ones they stay with me.
Speaker 1: We both just recently rewatched Russian Brides, which was one
Speaker 1: where you were heavily featured because you were and you
Speaker 1: sort of gave a lot of dramatic backstory about Craigan
Speaker 1: while you were undercover, and that was like a really
Speaker 1: that felt like a very you centric episode.
Speaker 6: Well, that is one of the favorites Russian Brides is
Speaker 6: there were so many things about that, and as the
Speaker 6: episode developed then I was involved more and more. And
Speaker 6: I love the fact that if you go back to
Speaker 6: see I can't even remember if it was SVU or
Speaker 6: the original where I have the story about where my
Speaker 6: wife died in a plane crash.
Speaker 1: I think that's an original because I believe that in
Speaker 1: the encyclopedic history of your character of Kragan that happens
Speaker 1: in original. And then that's when you moved to SVU
Speaker 1: later and that you sort of allude to that being
Speaker 1: why you don't drink anymore.
Speaker 6: Right, And I think that's a big part of it,
Speaker 6: which is also enslaves that comes up. But you know,
Speaker 6: I had to start digging back about all this stuff.
Speaker 6: I do remember that right now we're talking about three
Speaker 6: different things. But I will say that was a big
Speaker 6: part of it, that when my wife died, it was
Speaker 6: a big part of the story that I always thought
Speaker 6: I would be the one who would have to make
Speaker 6: the call say, or you know that I'm gone as
Speaker 6: a cop. And it was that my wife who was
Speaker 6: a flight attendant, as I remember. And again you brought
Speaker 6: up also the alcoholism, which I think was always a
Speaker 6: big part of his character.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, we've had some listeners send in photos of
Speaker 2: you at the precinct drinking cartons of milk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we were wondering is.
Speaker 2: That to aid in the alcohol storyline? Or does Kragan
Speaker 2: love milk? Did you love milk? How did that come about?
Speaker 3: You know what?
Speaker 6: These are things that sometimes are just written into an episode.
Speaker 6: There were a few things. I would drink milk, but
Speaker 6: I wanted to drink it out of the carton. I
Speaker 6: would drink tea, but I never used the handle on
Speaker 6: the cop. These were just personal choices. I think it
Speaker 6: was really just about this is a guy who's fighting
Speaker 6: with it, and it's in this episode. And that's what
Speaker 6: came back to me. Right, we all have to sit
Speaker 6: down and do the psycho balves. And I remember Audre
Speaker 6: McDonald is brilliant and amazing in a Broadway legend, but
Speaker 6: she was the shrink, if I remember, and there was
Speaker 6: something in there where I go like, why don't you
Speaker 6: just ask the question? You want to know if I
Speaker 6: drink or if I challenged to drink. And anyway, that
Speaker 6: was a big part of it that I remember, as
Speaker 6: much as Andrew McCarthy, who was brilliant in it, who
Speaker 6: kind of adopted this woman, you know, but held her
Speaker 6: as a slave. Anyway, I'm all over the place right now,
Speaker 6: but my point is drinking milk was not about you know,
Speaker 6: alcoholism or anything. It was just the way he drank
Speaker 6: certain things that weren't alcoholic.
Speaker 1: It was funny because people were writing us in their
Speaker 1: ideas like, oh, he probably has heartburn because of all
Speaker 1: these years on the job, and like, you know, the
Speaker 1: these theories about why you were drinking the milk. But
Speaker 1: I guess it was just written into the script that
Speaker 1: Craigan likes milk.
Speaker 6: Well, Dan Florick had heartburned. But we could make that
Speaker 6: work too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned you before. We've talked to another cast
Speaker 1: member who told us that you were a real prankster
Speaker 1: on the set.
Speaker 3: We wanted to know if you would care to comment
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, how far did we go with this.
Speaker 6: The point is this, This is what I will say. Okay,
Speaker 6: you guys, you know and love SVU, so you know
Speaker 6: what we deal.
Speaker 3: With, right.
Speaker 6: So I felt there had to be a little bit
Speaker 6: of a gallows humor. So we had to find places
Speaker 6: where we could release and laugh and have a good
Speaker 6: time without ever ever making fun of what we were doing.
Speaker 6: So I will say that yes, whenever we could, well,
Speaker 6: if I could place a what becussion, it would happen,
Speaker 6: but things along those lines.
Speaker 5: And also you could plan mistakes in the lines, you
Speaker 5: know what I mean, just just to have a little
Speaker 5: bit of fun, especially in the.
Speaker 6: Most dark moments. And I just think it was necessary,
Speaker 6: that's all. But I was if there was anyone who
Speaker 6: was the prankster, yes it would have been me. I
Speaker 6: also thought I was very very careful about where I
Speaker 6: would do that.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you had discretion.
Speaker 1: Did you any specific little pranks come to mind, like
Speaker 1: something you did to Mariushka.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 6: I think usually with Marishka it wouldn't be anything like
Speaker 6: the quote what becussion thing. I would sometimes do a
Speaker 6: line wrong on purpose, just a thrower, and it was
Speaker 6: always treasure, you know, and she knew and that was it.
Speaker 5: And she gave it back by the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you mentioned Audrey McDonald, who we are a
Speaker 2: big fan of. Are there other guest stars that came
Speaker 2: in that you were super excited to work with or
Speaker 2: had a great time with on set.
Speaker 5: Having done the original and s FORU?
Speaker 6: There have been so many amazing guests. John Ritter, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 6: Henry Winkler, Julie Bowen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are all great episodes.
Speaker 6: Yes, and that was an early one too, and she
Speaker 6: was terrific. There's dozens and dozens of people who were
Speaker 6: guest stars who have become huge stars. And I guess
Speaker 6: this is what I'll say, all these episodes between the
Speaker 6: two shows, over four hundred episodes, I worked with people
Speaker 6: who became big stars. I worked with people who should
Speaker 6: have become big stars. And it was always I think
Speaker 6: it was Joe Stern who said early on, you know,
Speaker 6: we don't hire stars, we make stars. And there have
Speaker 6: been so many people who have, you know, gone on
Speaker 6: to great things after this show. And I've always found
Speaker 6: any given episode, any scene, I mean, to me, they're treasures,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. It's not about somebody, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean, It's about.
Speaker 5: How good was that? In that day.
Speaker 6: That moment, it became a place where people wanted to
Speaker 6: be a guest star on the show. And that's where
Speaker 6: I think it became. I think that people are naysayers
Speaker 6: used to call it a Law and Order special guest
Speaker 6: star unit. But I thought it was a really good
Speaker 6: thing for us, and I thought that all kinds of
Speaker 6: people who normally even didn't do television wanted to be
Speaker 6: on our show because look, it was a really it's
Speaker 6: a smart show. It's a smart, challenging, interesting show, and
Speaker 6: the guest star usually gets the best role in the episode.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: We heard also that you lived in La the entire
Speaker 1: time that you were filming the show.
Speaker 3: So how did that work? Are you like the highest
Speaker 3: level on Delta of any person in the world? Like
Speaker 3: do you just flew back and forth? Like what was
Speaker 3: the story?
Speaker 5: There were a lot of miles.
Speaker 6: I got a lot of miles, But I lived in Venice, California,
Speaker 6: bought a place in New York, and so I lived
Speaker 6: in both places pretty much half a year. There were
Speaker 6: a couple million miles. I haven't used them all yet,
Speaker 6: Oh my god. And the truth is, I can't wait
Speaker 6: to get back to New York. And I have so
Speaker 6: many causes and people that I support in New York
Speaker 6: and I can't wait to get.
Speaker 2: Back the years between Law and Order and SVU. Were
Speaker 2: you surprised by the offer to be the captain on
Speaker 2: this new show was in the works for a while.
Speaker 3: Do you remember how that came about?
Speaker 6: Well, I was in prison, and no, you get it.
Speaker 6: It was it was a surprise. Dick Wolf called and
Speaker 6: he said it was going to be a show called
Speaker 6: Sex Crimes and he wanted to bring back the captain.
Speaker 6: And then in the interim there was it became Law
Speaker 6: and Order Special Victims Unit. At that moment when they
Speaker 6: first called me, it wasn't going to be, you know,
Speaker 6: part of the Law and Order brand, it.
Speaker 5: Was going to be a new show. Wow, and it
Speaker 5: was going to be called Sex Crimes.
Speaker 3: I think they made a good move.
Speaker 5: Oh, I think they did too.
Speaker 6: Again, my initial take was I didn't want to do it,
Speaker 6: and then it just clicked and I said, Okay, I'm in.
Speaker 6: And I think it worked out that way. But some
Speaker 6: of those episodes, especially in that first maybe ten twelve years,
Speaker 6: some of the best stuff I think I've ever done,
Speaker 6: and the best the show has been.
Speaker 2: That's my take, how did you feel when you got
Speaker 2: the script for the Delia Ganzel storyline and being framed
Speaker 2: with Carissa, Like were you excited to do all that?
Speaker 3: Because those are very meaty episodes, and.
Speaker 1: I think that was like so shocking for fans because
Speaker 1: you're sort of like beloved as this like Dad of
Speaker 1: the Precinct and then you're like framed with a dead
Speaker 1: sex worker in your bed, like it's it was.
Speaker 3: I mean, that whole arc is crazy.
Speaker 2: It was a season finale, so then we had to
Speaker 2: wait months and months to see what happened.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was nuts.
Speaker 2: I just that was a really crazy storyline that we love.
Speaker 6: It was and I'll tell you what this is. Well,
Speaker 6: I want to put this carefully. This is always about
Speaker 6: when contracts are coming up and that kind of thing,
Speaker 6: and it's like, if you're not going to work it out.
Speaker 5: Then Craigan did it? You know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Whatever, And actually it goes to slaves and I'll go
Speaker 6: there because that was the thing. I remember when we
Speaker 6: all sat and talked with the shrink, somebody was going
Speaker 6: to go and that's how that thing was kind.
Speaker 5: Of set up. Wow. Wow, So and I think we
Speaker 5: all know what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's but that's very interesting that that because
Speaker 1: like we really liked that sort of runner of Audra
Speaker 1: McDonald interviewing all of you, and you know, there's this
Speaker 1: how you all handle the job, and that's just an
Speaker 1: interesting sort of business.
Speaker 3: Uh, the other side of it to consider.
Speaker 2: We also find it really funny how much everyone hates
Speaker 2: therapy and the psychologist, especially Stabler, Like they're just so
Speaker 2: mad when they have to get analyzed, and I it
Speaker 2: just always made me laugh a lot.
Speaker 6: Well, and you know what's fascinating about all of this too,
Speaker 6: that's why Stabler was ultimately gone. I mean in the storyline,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, he's shot too many people,
Speaker 6: that punched too many people and all of that. But
Speaker 6: it's TV, right, I Mean I don't know much about it,
Speaker 6: but I understand he's coming back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's doing a spin off called I think
Speaker 1: there's going to be a low order organized crime that
Speaker 1: he's the head of, and so I think him coming
Speaker 1: back to SVU.
Speaker 3: Is like a little bit of a tease to that.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 3: Sure, So that's what a lot of fans are waiting.
Speaker 6: On and I understand that, see, and that's the cool
Speaker 6: thing about fans and they're very forgiving. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 6: he punched out more people than anyone in the history
Speaker 6: of NYPD, but they found a way to bring him back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: We always like talk about whether, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: will Stabler be a little bit more woke coming back
Speaker 1: into the like after all these years, Like, will he
Speaker 1: be a little bit more sensitive?
Speaker 5: And well, he has to be more woke. I wouldn't
Speaker 5: go as sensitive.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the fans, and I am assuming the SVU
Speaker 2: fans are pretty intense. Are there any stories you have
Speaker 2: of in the wild of fans approaching you or any
Speaker 2: wild interactions?
Speaker 6: You know, I'm always surprised when somebody because my everyday life,
Speaker 6: I don't think about this and it has been a while,
Speaker 6: but even while I.
Speaker 5: Was doing it.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm an actor, you know, I've done five
Speaker 6: hundred episodes of television. I've done a couple dozen movies.
Speaker 6: I've done almost one hundred plays. When people will stop
Speaker 6: me and just look and go captain, And I even
Speaker 6: have a moment.
Speaker 5: Where I'm like, excuse me.
Speaker 6: But the other side of that is that I get it,
Speaker 6: and like I said, SVU is part.
Speaker 5: Of my DNA.
Speaker 6: You know, there's all these episodes, and I may be
Speaker 6: recognized two or three times a week, or two or
Speaker 6: three dozen times a week, and I think the good
Speaker 6: thing is this, for the most part, I had a wonderful,
Speaker 6: wonderful time and a wonderful experience. And so if people
Speaker 6: are pleasant, I'll sit and talk with them and I'll,
Speaker 6: you know, I'll talk about whatever episode they want to
Speaker 6: talk about. It's a part of my life and it
Speaker 6: mattered to them. And I can't tell you how many
Speaker 6: times people have come up to me and said SVU
Speaker 6: brought our family together. They'll say that they didn't always
Speaker 6: get along as a family, but they would always watch
Speaker 6: SVU and then they could discuss it. And I think
Speaker 6: all the law and orders, but especially SPU, who was
Speaker 6: perfect for that, meaning there was usually at least two, three,
Speaker 6: four or.
Speaker 5: Five takes right.
Speaker 6: You would have the cops, you would have the das,
Speaker 6: you would They all had a point of view, and
Speaker 6: depend on how you looked at it, each one could
Speaker 6: be correct right. And I think that made for wonderful discussions,
Speaker 6: and especially with families.
Speaker 1: Swinging over a little bit more to the funny parts
Speaker 1: of the show, because you get so many of these
Speaker 1: deadpan one liners like I feel like you have so
Speaker 1: much of the comedy in the show, almost like you'll
Speaker 1: be like Olivia there the mother's demanding she'd be questioned
Speaker 1: in a penis free environment, you know, like you get
Speaker 1: all these like gar I wrhy.
Speaker 3: This one too.
Speaker 2: I wrote It's all fun and games till somebody loses
Speaker 2: a penis.
Speaker 5: Well, yes, I enjoyed those very much.
Speaker 6: What I will say is I think Jerry orback got
Speaker 6: the those lines like the original.
Speaker 5: Yes, but I do like that because.
Speaker 6: They did give me a lot of those lines, and
Speaker 6: I think that was pretty That was one of the
Speaker 6: favorite parts for me, you know, because a lot of
Speaker 6: it was kind of dry. I was just saying, well,
Speaker 6: I had the episodes where I said, I was just
Speaker 6: directing traffic. I would say, well, ask this, ask the uncle,
Speaker 6: ask the monkey's uncle, do it again, you know, and
Speaker 6: that's all he did. But the ones where I really
Speaker 6: got something to do and that were spicy like that,
Speaker 6: I always enjoyed that always. Well, here's the other side
Speaker 6: of this. I talked to all of these people, we
Speaker 6: met with these people. We walked into a room and
Speaker 6: it was Florida ceiling file cabinets of the most well,
Speaker 6: heinous is the word they use, right. Cases we couldn't
Speaker 6: even show you most of these cases, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean? This world is really, really, potentially pretty horrendous,
Speaker 6: and that's why I always felt whatever we could do again,
Speaker 6: I'll use the phrase shina light on these things where
Speaker 6: we could make a difference, and that to me was
Speaker 6: always very important.
Speaker 2: And you have I feel like I've learned so much
Speaker 2: about the show, and I mean through the show, I've.
Speaker 3: Learned so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do want to mention a lighter moment in
Speaker 2: the show's history. And I don't know if you know
Speaker 2: that this is one of your most famous moments. It's
Speaker 2: a gift. It's the background on my cell phone. Actually
Speaker 2: it's you with the monkey, and the monkey coming out
Speaker 2: of the basketball and giving you a hug.
Speaker 3: And we would like to know if you have any
Speaker 3: memories of that.
Speaker 5: Well here, I'm going to give you a three things.
Speaker 5: Two things.
Speaker 6: Yes, right, I am dating the monkey. They know the monkey.
Speaker 6: Wait a minute, let me see if I can find this.
Speaker 6: Hold on, hold on real quick, I don't think is
Speaker 6: it here? Give me a second. Okay, can you see this?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Kara takes screenshot.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, wait, hold on, Dan, Dan, Dan,
Speaker 1: hold on, I'm just taking a quick picture of this.
Speaker 3: This is amazing.
Speaker 1: He has basically an oil painting of him and the
Speaker 1: monkey right now.
Speaker 6: But what I'm going to say, when I left the show,
Speaker 6: that was one of the things that was one of
Speaker 6: my favorite gifts.
Speaker 5: Who that I was done. That monkey's name was Kimba.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 6: And I actually had to have playdates with Kimba so that.
Speaker 3: He would get used to you and stuff.
Speaker 6: Yes, because you know it was the fake basketball and
Speaker 6: all that stuff, and when it was thrown then when
Speaker 6: he had to fake basketball and I had to open
Speaker 6: it and he had to come up, and so he
Speaker 6: had to get to know me. And his favorite snack
Speaker 6: was gummy bears. So we would meet and we would
Speaker 6: have playdates three I think three playdates, and I would
Speaker 6: give him gummy bears.
Speaker 5: And the other thing is this, we have to get this.
Speaker 5: He would do this.
Speaker 6: He would slap my head all the time and steal
Speaker 6: my glasses. I was wearing glasses when we weren't shooting,
Speaker 6: and I remember the trainer said, you have to tell him, no,
Speaker 6: you have to treat him, you know, like you would
Speaker 6: a dog that you were training.
Speaker 5: So I had to say, you know, Kimba, no.
Speaker 6: So anyway, we got to know each other and other
Speaker 6: than him pooping on me a couple of times because
Speaker 6: he had to wear those what do you call like
Speaker 6: ger animals in the rehearsals, in that moment, I got
Speaker 6: to tell you, I think they cut the line which
Speaker 6: broke my heart when the monkey came out. The line
Speaker 6: in the script was I said, the monkey's okay, and
Speaker 6: I think they cut the line. But he knew me
Speaker 6: well enough that his arms reached right up and he
Speaker 6: hugs me, and I was I cried.
Speaker 3: I was like, dude, that's amazing.
Speaker 5: We're bonding.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which comes out to anyway, I'm doing a whole
Speaker 6: thing right now with me working with animals. That's a
Speaker 6: whole different thing. But that's a big part of it
Speaker 6: because that episode was called Wildlife and there were many
Speaker 6: many animals involved. But I got to tell you, well,
Speaker 6: it's kind of odd to say one of my favorite
Speaker 6: actors I worked with is a monkey. I think he's
Speaker 6: a baby whiteface gibbon if I'm remembering correctly.
Speaker 3: But Kimba, Wow, you know so much about Kimba. That's amazing.
Speaker 6: Well, I like I say, we didn't kiss r it
Speaker 6: was he was a really sweet little dude, and for me,
Speaker 6: it was a moment in an episode. And you know,
Speaker 6: I rehearsed with him as I would have with Mariska
Speaker 6: or Chris Well. I nefverely gave them gummy bears, but
Speaker 6: the point was in that moment. I just thought, Wow,
Speaker 6: that went well. And it has always been a sweet
Speaker 6: thing for me. It's been one that people actually loved
Speaker 6: that and remember it.
Speaker 1: I mean, Lisa can't forget it. It's the background of
Speaker 1: her phone every time she gets a vocal call, she
Speaker 1: sees you and Kimba. This is amazing, This is like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. We couldn't have asked for a better story.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: We would like to know if you committed a crime,
Speaker 2: who would you like to be your defense attorney? Oh?
Speaker 5: Wow, you mean from the show?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okay, wow defense attorneys? Wasn't Mariscus husband and defensive?
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm going to go with him because most of
Speaker 6: them I didn't have a good time with, So I
Speaker 6: think Peter.
Speaker 5: I would go with Peter.
Speaker 3: Okay, Trevor Langon, is your answer great.
Speaker 2: Yes, if you called nine one one, which detective would
Speaker 2: you like to show up?
Speaker 6: You know, depending on what it was, it would have
Speaker 6: to be Elliott Stabler because just because yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: And then I just I like to know your favorite
Speaker 2: craft service snacks, like the things they they knew they
Speaker 2: needed ready for you.
Speaker 6: Well you know what they were. Oh wow, there were
Speaker 6: so many. Now here's one I'll give you very quickly.
Speaker 6: It was We used to call it a maloney meal
Speaker 6: because he wanted it was like ground turkey, brown rice,
Speaker 6: and a green vegeta. But for me, I liked this
Speaker 6: crazy mix of popcorn and pepper and chini.
Speaker 3: Oh interesting. I mean, you know I'm gonna try it immediately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you gotta try it.
Speaker 5: I'm serious.
Speaker 3: Try it, Lisa.
Speaker 1: Yes, I can't believe that we got to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I mean a true dream.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. It was. It was beautiful. It's
Speaker 3: just amazing. I just can't Yeah, I guess I'm stuttering.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: We are going to post on our Instagram the photo
Speaker 1: of Captain Craigan holding the oil painting of him and
Speaker 1: the monkey from the episode Wildlife aka Kimba, and to know.
Speaker 3: That Kimba likes gummy bears. It's like, am I Kimba?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: I just like we're all Kimba. We are all Kimbla, and.
Speaker 2: We need pepperaccini and popcorn. That's going to be our
Speaker 2: And when we after all this COVID mess, when I
Speaker 2: finally get to see you in person, we're having a
Speaker 2: pepperaccini popcorn.
Speaker 1: We should just have a craft services party we're together,
Speaker 1: where we eat everything people have recommended to us, Yes,
Speaker 1: all all of the craft services.
Speaker 2: Also, I loved learning that so many of our cliffhangers
Speaker 2: that keep us wanting more are truly contractual things and
Speaker 2: away like.
Speaker 3: Like that, like we're like, what did mony? What happened?
Speaker 3: And it's like it's a contract, you dumb bitches.
Speaker 2: So like I did like learning that if if Dan
Speaker 2: Fluoric didn't behave like would he would he have gotten
Speaker 2: away with the cry or he didn't commit the cry?
Speaker 2: But you know it's just like interesting, you forget about
Speaker 2: the business.
Speaker 1: Would they have sent Captain Craigan off having murdered a
Speaker 1: sex worker?
Speaker 3: That would have been the end of his contract? But
Speaker 3: that was an amazing interview.
Speaker 1: We are kind of like still shocked and the episode
Speaker 1: was so harrowing. Obviously, there's not so many since to learn, Like,
Speaker 1: not that many people are going to encounter the evil
Speaker 1: that this man Cameron Hooker is. But Colleen stan is
Speaker 1: a true I mean like hero, like an example of
Speaker 1: strength beyond anything I've ever heard of.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't even know what to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are fucking bad. And always trust your gut.
Speaker 2: I think that's something to always keep in mind with
Speaker 2: big things, little things always, just like I think as
Speaker 2: women especially we've been taught to not listen to our
Speaker 2: voices or that we're emotional or that we're wrong and
Speaker 2: like second guess ourselves and just an always reminder that
Speaker 2: your gut is real and true and always try to follow.
Speaker 3: It and fuck being polite, fuck being polite. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: That's kind of it for us. For our post mortem today,
Speaker 1: let's hop into what would Sister Peg Do? On this
Speaker 1: week's what would Sister Peg Do? Which is our little
Speaker 1: segment where we give you guys a resource or an
Speaker 1: organize that you can lend your eyes, ears, or wallets too.
Speaker 3: This week, we.
Speaker 1: Strongly strongly would urge you to write to the California
Speaker 1: Pearle Board and to Governor Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California,
Speaker 1: to express your concerns about the potential early release of
Speaker 1: Cameron Hooker, who is the man who held Colleen stan
Speaker 1: captive in a box for seven years. So this is
Speaker 1: not a person that can be among us in society.
Speaker 1: And I've read interviews with Colleen where she confirmed that
Speaker 1: she does not believe that he will ever be rehabilitated
Speaker 1: and she does not feel safe with him being out.
Speaker 1: So in our show notes, we have phone number, mailing address,
Speaker 1: and emails where you can contact the California Pearl Board
Speaker 1: and the Governor, just expressing that you would like to
Speaker 1: contest him being released early for COVID nineteen purposes.
Speaker 2: And a reminder from our episode Counterfeit that Craig Pyre,
Speaker 2: a murderer, is also up for parole, same stacke and
Speaker 2: same information.
Speaker 3: So yeah, why don't you knock out both of them?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, great idea. And that's what would susterr PEG do
Speaker 3: for this week? Lisa? What's our episode next week? So
Speaker 3: our next.
Speaker 2: Week's episode is amazing. It is mean from season five,
Speaker 2: episode seventeen, and you can watch it Hulu, Peacock and
Speaker 2: always you know you can subscribe, leave us some stars
Speaker 2: have fun.
Speaker 3: We have an email you.
Speaker 2: Can let us know what episode you'd like us to
Speaker 2: chat about, or please tell us if you're related to
Speaker 2: anyone that's ever been on SVU, or if you've met
Speaker 2: anyone from SVU.
Speaker 3: We're very interested. See you next week.
Speaker 2: Guys, That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If
Speaker 2: you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes
Speaker 2: you like us to cover, shoot us an email at
Speaker 2: That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up and
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally
Speaker 1: at Kara Clank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please
Speaker 1: see our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s
Speaker 2: view super fan Hannah Kyle Craton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie
Speaker 1: Snelson are engineers.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaire for our theme song.
Speaker 1: To our artistic queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of
Speaker 1: our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at exactly right media.
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Speaker 3: Dun Simples