WEBVTT - 4D Printing is 1 D Better 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.400 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:15.080 Forward Thinking. Hey there everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.120 the podcast that looks at the future. It says, I'm 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.200 just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control. I'm 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.560 Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren Vocon, and I'm Joe McCormick. And 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.000 you know, on this podcast once or twice we've talked 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:33.400 about three D printing, right, yes, additive manufacturing. Well, Joe, 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.000 I I'm not surprised you don't remember. So much time 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.599 has passed now. Three D printing, of course, is like 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.360 you said, Lauren, it's additive manufacturing. It's when you're using 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.919 a device to create some sort of object, three dimensional object, 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.640 layer by layer, and it's uh, it's it's somewhat of 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:56.240 a painstaking process, but it's less wasteful than subtractive manufacturing, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.280 which is where you would take a block of something 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.280 and then carve away all the stuff you don't want, right, Yeah, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:07.000 And it gives you the ability to design virtually with precision. Right, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.720 you can prototype stuff, you can print it out, you 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.120 can test it see if it has has any merit. 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.000 If not, you can go back to the drawing board 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.920 a lot more cheaply than than traditional prototyping would have worked, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.520 and much faster too. Because you don't have to sit 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.680 there and try and carve it away and then send 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.559 a mold or or some sort of other model off 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.360 to be manufactured in a more uh sturdy format. You 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.120 can actually test things out very rapidly, and it really 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.479 helps you when you're developing something brand new. Okay, well, 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.120 I want to talk about this idea that popped up 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.560 this year. I think it popped up this spring. Um. 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.640 It's called fort printing. And you know, Joe, you're not 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.440 the only one I want to talk about this. In fact, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.360 almost instantly after we uploaded our three D printer video, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.760 we had someone commenting, what about four D printing? What 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.440 is for D printing? Well, I assume it must be 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:05.600 one better. Yes, it's better than three by a whole one. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.920 It's it's it's at least better than three. Um. Okay, 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.120 so for D printing maybe better than three D printing. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.840 But what it really breaks down to it comes from 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.560 this guy named Skylar Tibbots, which is an awesome name. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.640 Yeah uh. And most people became familiar with this idea 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.640 through a Ted talk he had that sort of went 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:37.000 viral in the popular science media sphere. UM And in 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.360 this Ted talk he introduces this idea of for D printing, 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.000 and essentially what it is is combining two major concepts. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.160 It's three D printing with programmable materials. So when you 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.160 think about things that are programmable, one would be like 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.480 computer software, and that means that it has a function 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:00.800 that unfolds across time. So you you give some sort 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.600 of input and the software takes that input, performs some 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.880 form of operation upon that input, and gives you output 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.440 as a result. Right, it's a it's a sequence of 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:15.120 events in linear time. UM. And so what if you 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.240 could create materials, just three D materials like a block 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.200 or a sheet that also we're programmable, meaning they had 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.600 they had functionality, not not not not reality, No, it's 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.040 for real. What on the nano scale. That's what happens 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.720 all the time within your own body. Now you're blowing 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.640 my mind. Yeah, Well we'll get into those metaphors in 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.080 a bit. But basically, what we're talking about is a 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:44.200 piece of plastica UM that can change its own shape 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:49.120 or physical properties in response to a stimulus over time. Right, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.360 So you put something like this in your mind, a 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.680 string of black plastic. It's just a tube. It doesn't 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.880 do anything as far as you know. But submerge it 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.520 in water and it curls up to spell a phrase 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:09.120 in cursive like, uh, Jonathan, the programmable material skeptic is 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.080 stupid that I would not at all be shocked to 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:18.120 find that. And then you can just remove it, Okay. 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:19.960 So you could remove it from the water and it 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.719 might revert to its original state, or you could apply 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.960 a different kind of energy, say instead of water, you 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.880 could apply solar energy to it, or heat, or you 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.719 could applying cone. Yeah, exactly. Um. So you shake it 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.159 up and it curls into a pre arrange shape. And 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.159 the way this works is just basic physical design. It's 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:46.400 got um it's got inherent tendencies towards certain shapes, and 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.680 when it encounters this energy. It doesn't have an electric motor, 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.880 it doesn't have any moving parts or chemicals or anything 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.200 like that. The molecules just realign to this other shape. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.840 They have an affinity for right. And in the case 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.880 of that first example, with submerging something in water, what 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.440 you're really doing is is printing a single object with 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.599 different materials from a three D printer UM. And those 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.680 different materials have different water absorption properties, and so when 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.080 when you get them wet, they do different stuffs right, right, 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.200 So that makes it bend in a different way. So 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.719 on the macro scale we see it end up taking 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.960 a particular shape. On the micro or nanoscale, lots of 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.200 complicated things are happening so that those structures form the 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.719 shape you're looking at right. Um. And so what Lauren 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.360 just introduced is where three D printing hits this. So 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.520 I was talking about programmable materials, but what for D 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:44.120 printing says is, hey, you can print programmable materials pretty 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.440 easily with a three D printer UM. And this could 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.000 be useful in a lot of ways that we'll talk 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.800 about in a bit, uh. But but essentially the idea 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.000 is you're using a three D printer to put together 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.760 a thing that changes over time given a certain amount 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.040 of energy applied to it and particular form. It's kind 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:02.440 of if you want to think of it in the 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.240 terms of programming as far as software goes, You know, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.840 anyone who's programmed knows the if then statement, right, if 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.120 X then Y, that kind of idea. So in this case, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.200 it would be if certain type of energy is applied 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:22.000 to this material, then take this particular shape. That's kind 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.080 of the if. Then a programmable materials, you've you've printed 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.040 something that, by its very nature, when something specific is 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.680 applied to it, it will change shape in a predetermined way. 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.040 It's not like this is going to change shape in 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.000 in ways that we didn't intend. You're you're designing it 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.680 from the get go so that it will acquire a 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:47.760 specific shape. Yeah, so you can imagine more useful applications 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.640 for programmable materials like this than just spelling out insults 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.839 in cursive. You could think about furniture, say yeah, so 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.040 so let's say let's say I go to my favorite 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.160 furniture store. I key uh, because of course there's the 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.880 wonderful Jonathan Coulton song about it. Anyway, I decided to 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.719 go and I buy something, and I bring it back 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.520 home and I open it up and then I look 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.080 at the quote unquote simple instructions, and I realized that 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.320 the rest of my weekend is gone. As I try 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.800 and put this together, and invariably something goes on the 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.720 wrong way or backwards or whatever. But let's say that 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.600 we have reached a point where we have this self 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:27.200 assembling style of material, this programmable material that not only 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.840 will take its specific shape once you've applied the right 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.280 kind of energy, but we'll even interlock with other parts 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.760 that are that are made out of that same sort 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.840 of material. They've got this great part in that Ted 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.240 talk you were you were referring to, where they show 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.840 this material that's broken up into little bitty pieces inside 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.120 a beaker, and when you shake the beaker, you're you 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.000 are introducing random energy into the system. It starts to 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.560 come back together and form a a full unit as 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.600 opposed to a bunch of little pieces. And this is 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.800 done basically with with with with magnets and stuff like that. 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.360 I mean on at the current moment. These are more 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:09.680 ideological um experiments than really deep chemical experiment and it's 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.080 not and it's not something that you know, the the 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.000 average person is going to have at their disposal any 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.720 time and say like the next year or two years 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.400 or whatever. But the principle there is that maybe in 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:25.000 the future, instead of buying a box that you come 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:26.400 home and you open it up, it's got all these 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.960 different pieces and then you spend the next if you're 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.320 me seventy two hours trying to put it all together. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.520 You get something that when you add heat or you 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.040 shake it up, it ends up actually taking the shape 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.640 of whatever it is you specifically wanted, and it saves 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.360 you a lot of time and energy and effort, and 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.400 it really all the way down the line, it means 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.440 that things get simpler in design. Yeah, you could just 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:53.840 merely dunk a plastic sheet into water, or say, expose 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.080 it to sunlight or electricity from wall socket and it 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.720 reconfigures itself into a coffee table. Right. And I've seen 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.440 some great video that was also either part of the 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.840 Ted talk or just related stuff that's in the the 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:12.000 lab that Scalar Tipots works out of, where, for example, 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.960 they showed a a sheet of plastic. It wasn't it 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.920 wasn't just a rectangular sheet. You could actually tell that 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.160 it was meant to fold up into a cube and 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.800 then submerged in water and then it very slowly because 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.079 I think the video is sped up by fifty times 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:31.600 normal speed, but very slowly. No, but it does, it 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.480 does configure itself into the shape of a cube, which 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.120 is pretty cool to see. Now if you're watching that 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.440 and you're thinking this is sped up at fifty times 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.400 normal speed, and all this sheet is doing is turning 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.880 into a cube. It's hard to grasp how this could 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.160 have applications, but it's really just a proof of concept 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.880 at that stage. Right. This lab that we're talking about 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.280 the tipots friends, UM, it's called the self assembly lab. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.760 It's at M I, T and UM. They're they're defining 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.200 self assembly as a process by which disordered parts build 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.400 an ordered ructure through local interaction. UM. So, so what 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.679 they're really focusing on is non electronics stuff. I mean, 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:10.520 I think that the interesting future applications are all involving 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.160 some form of computerization. And they have played around a 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.839 little bit with with robots, which I'll talk about in 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.200 another moment. But but but but yeah, there, you know, 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:24.160 trying to eliminate the need to simulate and then build, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.520 or to build and then adjust, um in the long run, 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.920 by by running these thought experiments and seeing, you know, like, well, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.000 what what can we how can we use physics and 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.160 chemistry to get stuff to do what we want it 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.240 to for us rather than us having to go in 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.240 and physically change things. Yeah, it's important to remember that 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.000 while the examples of this we've seen are pretty basic. 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:52.040 This is extremely primitive technology and well sort of respectively, 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.800 in this field, it's brand new. Yeah, yeah, it's it's 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.080 really just collaborations at this point between architects and artists. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.120 And there's a company called UH status is I think, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.040 and an Autodesk, and in a bunch of other industry 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.079 three D printing and UH and other tech leaders are 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:12.880 are getting in on this and going like this is cool, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.199 what can we do? Yeah? And then you know, there 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:20.199 are some great potential benefits to this, for example, cutting 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.160 way down on the amount of resources and energy and 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.800 money that takes to go into manufacturing, building out infrastructures, 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.160 that kind of thing. And that's in fact, a large 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.040 part of Skylar's talk is to to on on the 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.880 Ted Talks. I call him Skylar, sometimes I just call 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:45.800 him sky Yeah, that's fair. So anyway, there's he really 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.680 points out that that they're they're taking a long term 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.280 view of this potential approach and saying this is something 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.880 that could be you know, we love to use the 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.200 word disruptive, like this could be disruptive and these these 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:03.600 established chains of things like manufacturing where UH it simplifies 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.480 stuff and saves lots and lots of money in the 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.400 long run, also saves energy, which, of course that's really important, 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.120 you know, as we're still trying to develop a way 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.120 of producing energy that meets the world's needs without making 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:23.959 it an uninhabitable place. Then saving it it matters a lot. Yeah, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.360 because infrastructure right now, the way that we do it 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.640 is is so rigid. It's rigid by design because it 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.920 needs to be, because we we need it to last 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.960 a long time and and be sturdy and whether the 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:35.760 elements and all of that kind of stuff. And so 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.920 do we want to start talking about applications about like 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.280 like like like what if instead of having UM giant 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.120 metal and concrete sewer pipes or water pipes, UM, we 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.880 could have forty printed water pipes that could actually adjust 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.480 to demand. Yeah, this is a concept that Tibots himself 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.800 talks about UM in one of his talks. I think 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.959 it's the Ted talker, Okay, yeah, but he talks about 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.360 UH piping UH. And that's a perfect example because a 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.320 lot of the UH materials they've already come up with 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.920 respond to water. And so the idea he has is 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.640 a pipe that undulates, so it could expand when there's 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.160 more demand for water, contract when there's less demand for water, 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.679 or it could even undulate to push the water along 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.000 without the need for turbines to to move the water through. Yeah, 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.079 you would reduce the requirement for things like pumping stations 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.720 to to be able to get water exactly where it 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.800 needs to go. I think a lot of people when 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.280 they're turning their faucets on don't realize the incredible amount 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.840 of engineering it took to make that a possibility. Yeah. Um, 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.800 but if the pipe itself could just work like say 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.959 you're esophagus does when you swallow something. You know how 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.720 you can swallow even when you're upside down. It's because 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.120 of that muscle motion and softly swallow when I'm upside down. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:52.960 That's why you see me staying on my head whenever 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.800 I met lunch, I know, hanging from the ceiling, drinking 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.559 blood in your apartment in the darkness. We call you 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.400 we gotta let's keep it on the download days. But 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.920 your esophagus, when you're drinking blood like that, your esophagus goes. 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.360 I think it's called peristalsis Is that correct? The name? 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.160 I just call it miller time anyway, It's a muscle 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.000 contraction that pushes what's in your mouth down your throat 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.320 and towards your stomach um. And yeah, and if pipes 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.120 work that way, that could be really useful. Another application 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.040 that that I think is interesting is in space exploration. Yes, yeah, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:29.800 In fact, that was one of the other points, is 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.320 that this idea, that this could allow you to put 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.880 together things, uh in environments that are traditionally difficult or 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.640 dangerous or deadly to human beings. So, whether it's in 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.040 the Antarctic or in the outer reaches of space, if 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.120 you need to be able to take some materials and 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.119 build out structures, then something that would be self assembling, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.640 just given the right kind of energy would be really useful. Yeah. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:15:00.320 Let's say we want to establish a Mars colony for humans, Okay, 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.560 and we have talked about that in the past obviously, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.560 so that's a that's a big step right now, but 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.280 clearly people are looking towards it, So it's a good 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.240 thing to think about how we would actually do it. 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.200 We put some astronauts down on the surface of Mars, 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.680 they need a protective structure in which to live. Uh, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.640 where does that come from? Right? I mean, and it's 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.960 not going to be exactly easy to do construction on 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.680 the surface of Mars. Yeah, they're they're already limited by 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.920 the fact that they're in space suits. They can they 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.800 really don't need to be spending extended periods of time 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.200 out on the surface of Mars in the first place, because, 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.920 as we've established in a previous episode, Mars is trying 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.920 to kill you. So you want to spend as as 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.760 little time on the surface, especially unprotected as possible, because 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.280 you're still prone to things like radiation, let alone the 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.760 toxic environment of Mars. So one possible application would be 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.280 to have this four D printed stuff to help make 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.160 at least the shell of some of the habitats that 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.480 you would want, right and there the various uh um well, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.280 like the Mars One Project talks about using rovers to 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.280 help build stuff and construct things, which on its face 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.120 seems really really complicated to me. Like I I have 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.560 a hard time believing that we could build robots that 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.200 would be sophisticated enough to help doing that. But but 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.000 if they're using stuff like this, that could really go 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.960 a long way the process share, you know, cut down 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.480 a little bit on that programming and or the durability 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:34.240 of the robot itself, right. Yeah. Also, I'm just thinking 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.160 about how unwieldy it is to transport construction materials. I mean, 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.360 if you've ever seen like a truck on the way 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.600 to a construction site and all the junk it's got 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.040 trying to fit together on the bed um and clearly 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.160 you couldn't it couldn't already be put together because there's 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.680 no space then, right, so you have so you just 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.000 flow the entire house. You just put rockets on the 0:16:55.000 --> 0:17:00.040 bottom the whole house, on the oversized load on the 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.600 back of it as it's flying off. Instead, you get 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.600 there with your for D printer and you've got just 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:12.520 bulk material basically that's not as unwieldy to transportenttridges that 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.080 hold the hold the stuff that you're printing out. Yeah, 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.240 and it there on the surface of Mars, goes ahead 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.520 and prints out the parts that you need, and so 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.439 they can reconfigure and interlock however you need them to 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.000 make the structure you're going to live in. Yeah. Yeah, No, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.720 that makes, you know, far more sense to me than 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:35.280 trying to rely on essentially a slightly more sophisticated version 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.080 of the curiosity rover. Right. I mean, I think about 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.760 the Curiosity Rover, and it is an amazing piece of technology, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.439 don't get me wrong. I think that is one of 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:48.679 the most phenomenal achievements for NASA post Moon landing. But 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:53.679 that being said, I can't imagine it building a house. Yeah, 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.159 it doesn't. It doesn't have and it's not like you 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.119 could guide it easily because the amount of time it 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:04.320 takes to get data from what minimum fourteen minute time laps. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.760 It all depends on the position of Mars and Earth 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.480 in relation to one another. And also, I mean even 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.240 which side of Mars is facing which side of Earth. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.679 I mean, all of that plays apart, right, So you know, 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.679 you wouldn't be able to in real time guide the robot. 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.000 It would have to be able to do a lot 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.840 of this autonomously, right, And that's the kind of thing 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.080 that autonomous robots aren't actually that good at. I mean, 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.600 you might be sitting there thinking like, oh, but robots 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.600 build our cars and stuff all the time, but but 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.680 that's in a very specific environment and in which things 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:36.640 have been very specifically laid out for. It does one job. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.760 It only has one job, and if you had if 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.879 you had changed that up somehow, it's not like the 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.479 robots could adjust to the new layout, right, It's not 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.119 like they could suddenly uh realize that things were different 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.159 and react to that. It's just they would try to 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.840 keep doing what they usually do on top of all that. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.639 I mean a rover for construction. I mean, think about 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.040 how exactly much work can you get done with a 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.879 solar powered bulldozer. I mean, one would wonder what kind 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.000 of I mean, there might be some other form of 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.679 power sell aboard it, but I wouldn't know. I mean, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.679 because that just is the way that Mars one has suggested. 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.120 But yeah, I think using like a four D approach 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.280 would cut back on that. Now, whether or not four 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.760 D afford D approach would be sophisticated enough to meet 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.080 the needs of the Mars one colony by the time 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.280 they actually start to launch things at least according to 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.320 their own launch plan, that that's a different story. I 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.600 just think that that would be a more It seems 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.919 like a more promising approach to me than what I 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.199 have read so far. I'd be very skeptical about it 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.760 developing that fast, but I do think that leads us 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.840 to the interesting question of how it advanced. Exactly can 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.520 this kind of thing get, Yeah, let's have it. Let's 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.000 have a discussion about that. I've got I've got an 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.359 alternative to this too that i want to talk about, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:54.879 but I'll tag that on at the end. I want 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.520 to talk about what what do you see, Joe as 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.960 like the the let's let's imagine that this this approach 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.840 really does pan out, that we learn uh, a lot 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:08.960 of the different advantages and a lot of different ways 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.400 of utilizing this. What do you see as some future 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.640 like really far future applications. Right now, we've got basically 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.600 art projects. Where else can it go? So right now, 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.879 you can make a string that curls into this knotted 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.480 up shape, or say a sheet that folds into a cube. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:30.240 But if you were to shrink that way down and 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:34.640 make billions of them, and make millions of different kinds 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:39.400 of them that all interact in ways that produce complex 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.000 macro effects. What you're talking about is something that's not 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.400 all that similar from how living things work. I mean 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.560 what a human body is, or what an insect is, 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.400 or pretty much any living material right yeah, is long 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:59.680 chains of molecules that they're polypeptides that are the I 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.440 mean no acid sequence in them. Determines what shape they 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.720 curl up into, and the shapes they curl up into 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.680 interact in interesting ways that produce macro effects. First with 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:16.480 with hydrogen bombs, hydrogen bombs, hydrogen bonds, goodness, migracious, and 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.960 uh and then and then in tertiary structures with them 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:22.159 with with sell fites and all kinds of other stuff. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.720 And you know, when we had this quick discussion before 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:27.800 we came in here to record, I pointed out that 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.640 when you think about nature has had billions of years, 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.760 really millions and billions of years too to really experiment 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:39.680 and see which of these these shapes are the ones 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.520 that work. Because anything that doesn't work doesn't live, and 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.280 if it doesn't live, then you're you discard that and 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.120 you go on. So it's not like it's necessarily any 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.520 sort of intelligent experimentation. It's just that by the very 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.959 nature of the way life works, we see which shapes 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.639 are the ones that actually end up being uh advent tageous. 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.800 So the question is can we catch up with you know, 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.800 billions of years of evolution in twenty to fifty years 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.200 of R and D well, I mean, that's the years 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.040 that's that's our standard that's our standard prediction. Right. I'm skeptical, 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.520 but I think it's a really interesting idea, and I 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.399 think that in theory it's not impossible because of what 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.240 I just said about how you know you can create 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:29.600 incredibly complex and powerful things without micro chips or electro 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.840 mechanical motors. Yeah, it does. We had this discussion earlier 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.399 as well about let's say that you are using this 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.600 four D stuff and it's able to take on multiple 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:45.560 shapes depending upon whatever seth circumstances are applied to it. Right, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.840