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Speaker 1: Trust me. Trust for trust me.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a squat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, do you.

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Speaker 1: Think that one person has all the answers? Don't welcome

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Speaker 1: to Trust Me? The podcast about cults, extreme belief and

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Speaker 1: the abusive power from two women who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am Lola Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth. Today

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Speaker 1: we are talking to two current members of the FLDS

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Speaker 1: fundamentalist Mormons who believe in plural marriage and are members

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Speaker 1: of a polygamous community. We'll hear what everyday life is

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Speaker 1: like with eleven kids, what is and is not forbidden,

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Speaker 1: and why members have been evicted from their homes.

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Speaker 4: And we'll also talk about why there have been no

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Speaker 4: new marriages in the community because their prophet, Warren Jeffs,

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Speaker 4: who arranges the marriages, is in prison.

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Speaker 5: Woo yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we'll get to that in a second, but for now, Megan,

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Speaker 1: what's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 4: Oh, the cultiest thing that's happened to me this week

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Speaker 4: is definitely my new relationship with Pinterest. I have been

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Speaker 4: sucked in to this very charismatic website lair and they

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Speaker 4: can't get off of it.

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Speaker 1: I've been there, man, I have really been there. What

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Speaker 1: are you pinning? What am I not pinning?

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Speaker 5: Wela?

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Speaker 1: You have special boards, Yes, I have special boards for

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Speaker 1: special things. Okay, Well tell us about the boards.

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Well, one of them's for writing, one of them is

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Speaker 4: for dreams, and one of them is for like life,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Like messages, Yeah, inspiration, inspiration, inspirational for sure,

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Speaker 4: inspirational like written words over sunsets.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I have never pinned one of those. Oh, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I have a million of them. And yeah, I mean I.

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Speaker 5: Just love it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, does it have control over your life? Would

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Speaker 1: you say? No? It doesn't sound like you're in a

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Speaker 1: colt Megan. Sounds like you just really like this website.

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Speaker 5: That's true. Do you have you done any what's the

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Speaker 5: cool thing that's up?

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Speaker 1: Well? At the time of recording this intro, uh, the protests,

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Speaker 1: the post George Floyd protests have been happening. And something

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Speaker 1: happened in a protest that I thought was just so

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Speaker 1: interesting because it was a perfect example of how we

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Speaker 1: just kind of follow what other people are doing, so

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Speaker 1: we So there was a big protest in a park

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Speaker 1: in LA and I've never been in this park, but

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Speaker 1: I generally whatever I entered the park, I see that

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people are walking in a specific direction,

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Speaker 1: and then more people join them, and more people joined them,

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Speaker 1: till literally hundreds of people are walking south away from

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Speaker 1: where I was. I didn't know where, like the actual

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Speaker 1: speeches were happening or anything, but I'm like, Oh, all

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Speaker 1: of those people are walking that way. I have to

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Speaker 1: follow them because they must know something that I don't.

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Speaker 1: So I start following them and keep following them, and

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Speaker 1: then we keep walking until we are no longer in

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Speaker 1: the park. Oh wow, and the protest is in the park.

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Speaker 1: And I turned I was by myself, so I just

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Speaker 1: turned to like some random girl and I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: but isn't the park. Aren't we leaving the park? So

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Speaker 1: now we're like basically at the grove, like not at

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Speaker 1: a park abor And she just like gave me a

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Speaker 1: weird look and was like, oh, like nobody wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to me about it. And I was, but I

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Speaker 1: just kept going until finally one of the actual organizers

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Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter starts like coming back the other way,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, what are you guys doing the march

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Speaker 1: back there? Going hundreds of us men. No, hundreds. I

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Speaker 1: mean it just was like, it's so interesting to me

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Speaker 1: because I think of myself as somebody who's like, at

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Speaker 1: least trying to recognize when I'm just doing something because

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Speaker 1: other people are doing it. But in a situation like that,

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Speaker 1: you just like assume if I had had just one person,

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Speaker 1: one other person who'd been like, no, I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: we're leaving the park. This isn't this can't be right,

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Speaker 1: would have gone back. But because it was just me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I don't crazy, And it makes

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Speaker 1: me think of the the doing about the ASH experiments.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you must because you have this psychology,

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Speaker 1: but I mean give it to me. The experiments. I

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Speaker 1: want to say this sixteen seven years I don't know, uh,

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Speaker 1: some decade in which they lined people up and had

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Speaker 1: them look at like drawings of lines and compare which

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Speaker 1: ones matched the like original line of the lines of

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Speaker 1: different lengths, which one was like the same length. The

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Speaker 1: answer was very obvious, but the other people in the

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Speaker 1: row were plants, so they had the other people who

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Speaker 1: are not the test subject say the wrong answer, say

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Speaker 1: the length of a line that is obviously visually incorrect

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Speaker 1: and a fair amount of the time I can't remember

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Speaker 1: the exact number, but like a significant amount of the

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Speaker 1: time the person when they can see with their own eyes,

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Speaker 1: that's not the same length. If they hear three other

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Speaker 1: people say the wrong answer, first they say it, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you want to believe that you're exempt from that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to believe you would never do that.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I know for a fact that I would do that.

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Speaker 5: I have for a fucking fact.

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Speaker 1: I want to believe I'm better than that. You no,

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Speaker 1: And I find that in situations like that, I'll like,

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Speaker 1: I will have the question, I'll be like, this can't

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Speaker 1: be right. But then unless I have some backup, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm still going along with it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, nobody in that line was like this is

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent normal, but they still are like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I guess these other three people yeah.

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Speaker 1: But they were like, there's some person I want to

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Speaker 1: say it's like sixty forty or or something like that.

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Speaker 1: There's a fair amount of people who who answered what

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Speaker 1: they thought was correct, and I just I want to

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Speaker 1: believe I'm one of those people. But this, this particular

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Speaker 1: moment indicated to me that I am not yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So before we dive in here, I want to give

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Speaker 1: a disclaimer because I know that this is going to

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Speaker 1: come up. The prophet that these two women believe in,

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Speaker 1: who you've probably heard of, is Warren Jeff's and starting

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, he was convicted of a

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Speaker 1: number of things, but including arranging marriage with underage girls,

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Speaker 1: as well as sexually assaulting two miners whom he considered

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Speaker 1: his wives. He had over eighty wives, but the ones

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Speaker 1: in question were fifteen and twelve. He's been in prison

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and six. Members of the group believe

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Speaker 1: that child abuse is wrong, unequivocally wrong, but they think

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Speaker 1: that Warren was framed by the government as a form

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Speaker 1: of religious persecution, and they have a long history of

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Speaker 1: being criminalized over the years, repeatedly rated and even arrested

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Speaker 1: on mass in nineteen fifty three, just for practicing plural marriage,

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Speaker 1: not any other crime. While I personally don't think that

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Speaker 1: there's a government conspiracy at work here, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think Megan does either. No, the stipulation of this interview

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Speaker 1: were that we were not going to be judgmental, and

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Speaker 1: we were not going to make this an interrogation and

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Speaker 1: I know as you listen, you're going to want us

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Speaker 1: to hit them really hard on this, But I know

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Speaker 1: these women personally. They've been traumatized and stigmatized by the media,

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Speaker 1: which is always very negative. So we are not here

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Speaker 1: to talk about that, and we'll get into it a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Don't worry, but Warren Jeffs is no longer

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Speaker 1: in contact with their community, and he hasn't been for

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Speaker 1: some time. So we are more interested in humanizing and

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Speaker 1: having a conversation with two very nice ladies who are

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Speaker 1: family friends of mine. We are here today with two

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Speaker 1: current FLDS members. We have Esther and Laurie.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 6: Hello.

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Speaker 1: So before we begin, a little background on what FLDS is.

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Speaker 1: So it stands for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ

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Speaker 1: of Latter day Saints Fundamentalist Mormons. It's a Mormon offshoot

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Speaker 1: church known for polygamy, sister wives, the iconic images you've

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Speaker 1: seen of them in pastal dresses, and the rest of

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Speaker 1: Warren Jeff's and it's primarily based in a tiny rural

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Speaker 1: community called Short Creek on the border of Arizona and Utah,

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Speaker 1: but they also have applaus in Texas, Colorado, South Dakota

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Speaker 1: and Canada. I actually wrote an article about this community

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Speaker 1: for Vice when I visited years ago, but I did

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Speaker 1: not understand what was going on there yet, and a

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Speaker 1: lot has changed since then. So the Mormon Church originally

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Speaker 1: believed in plural marriage polygamy, and the FLDS was sort

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Speaker 1: of branched off from that church when Mormonism basically outlawed

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Speaker 1: plugamy and decided to go with mainstream comply with mainstream

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Speaker 1: law nineteen forty.

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Speaker 2: Two eighteen eighteen ninety.

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Speaker 4: I guess I did know, I Wikipedia thing did happen

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Speaker 4: in nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Forty, nineteen seventy, eighteen twenty five. Well, there were these

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Speaker 1: other groups that believe that polygamy was still right even

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Speaker 1: though the government was saying that it was not.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was part of the stipulations of Utah becoming

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Speaker 3: a state.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: There are many different branches off of the Mormon Church

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Speaker 2: that call themselves fundamentalists as well, But our particular group

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Speaker 2: is kind of defined by the more old fashioned ways

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Speaker 2: of dress. We tend to take all of the revelations

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Speaker 2: and doctrine as revealed by the prophet Joseph Smith. We

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Speaker 2: take it at face value and we try to implement

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Speaker 2: in our lives exactly as it came from him, no modifications.

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Speaker 1: Right, So Justic Smith was the original founder of mormony, yes,

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Speaker 1: or anyone who doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Know, and we are we are the only ones of

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Speaker 3: all the fundamentalists Mormon groups, we're the only ones that

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Speaker 3: use the term FLDS.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to describe your visual appearance if you

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Speaker 1: guys don't mind, go ahead. Esther is wearing a turquoise,

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Speaker 1: very cute color, turquoise long sleeve dress. And how do

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Speaker 1: you guys describe.

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Speaker 2: The I know that a lot of people refer to

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Speaker 2: as FLDS poof.

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Speaker 1: After has the poof and a very cute blue dress,

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Speaker 1: and Laurie is wearing a similar dress, but in a

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Speaker 1: very cute green. They look great next to each other.

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Speaker 4: Do you guys make the dresses or does somebody in

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Speaker 4: the community make the dresses or are these like dresses

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Speaker 4: just from a store that happened to fet the rules?

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Speaker 3: My sister made this dress for me.

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Speaker 1: Nice, I want someone to make dresses for me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So there is a there is a store in

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Speaker 2: Cedar City now and it's called Prima Clothier, And you

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Speaker 2: can actually go and you can order in any size

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Speaker 2: or color dresses like ours. They're shown by the people

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Speaker 2: of our faith. How much are they They run about

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Speaker 2: sixty five dollars.

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Speaker 6: I think, ooh, steep.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, if you guys were were not in this religion,

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Speaker 4: is there like a certain fashion that you're really drawn

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Speaker 4: to that you're like, that's what I would dress like?

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Speaker 3: This is when I would dress. I prefer to be covered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think there's a particular fashion that really

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Speaker 2: attracts me. Before we had the option of, you know,

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Speaker 2: buying dresses like ours off the rack. You know, we

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Speaker 2: just go for the long sleeved and the long skirt

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Speaker 2: just simply because we'd be leaving and covering our bodies.

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Speaker 1: I apologize for my crop top.

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Speaker 6: You're funny.

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Speaker 3: We don't expect everyone else to dress like us.

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Speaker 1: So you guys have definitely seen me in crop tops before.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that seems like it would be well.

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Speaker 4: In the religion that I was raised in, I had

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Speaker 4: to dress pretty similar and the hair, the poof was

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Speaker 4: very much a part of our lives and my mom

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Speaker 4: that's just what she actually wants to wear. And I

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Speaker 4: always wanted to wear jeans and T shirts and whatever, so.

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Speaker 1: I had a hard time even with the mainstream warmon

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Speaker 1: wardrobeer relations because they don't they at least when I

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Speaker 1: was growing up, you weren't allowed to wear sleepless anything

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Speaker 1: or show your midrif or short skirts and I felt

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Speaker 1: so restricted. So, ladies, what's an average day like in

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Speaker 1: the FLDS.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that everybody's life is the same.

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Speaker 5: Sure.

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Speaker 3: For me, I have eleven children, and I mean every

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Speaker 3: day is different. You know, there's a lot of excitement,

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Speaker 3: a lot of activity that goes on.

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Speaker 2: Like she said, every person's every day is every different.

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Speaker 2: I have five children, three girls and two boys, and

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Speaker 2: we have left the community because we were evicted, and

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Speaker 2: so that's why.

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Speaker 6: We live in Bayo now, Okay.

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Speaker 2: And we live a homestead life basically. So we have

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Speaker 2: cows and we have chickens, and we have a dog

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Speaker 2: and we you know, we've rented a place on ten

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Speaker 2: acres and it's very very rough. It's you know, out

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Speaker 2: in the weeds, away from everyone else and it's just quiet.

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Speaker 2: So we can go and just be who we are

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Speaker 2: and you know, have our farming experience and learn how

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Speaker 2: to grow things and live off the land. And we

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Speaker 2: don't bother anyone out there, and it's it feels safe.

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Speaker 1: Are you guys in current plural marriages.

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Speaker 3: I've never been in a plural marriage myself, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not even in a single marriage.

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Speaker 2: I am the only wife currently of my husband. So

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Speaker 2: I've never personally been in a plural relationship, but I

255
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Speaker 2: am product of a plural relationship. Oh so my father

256
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Speaker 2: had two wives and they were sisters by biologically sisters,

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Speaker 2: and so I came from a large family thirty one.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And what's that like?

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Speaker 2: I think it's like heaven because it's it's my life.

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Speaker 2: We lived in a our family was very very close.

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Speaker 2: It didn't matter who was your mother. The only thing

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Speaker 2: that really mattered is that we had a father and

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Speaker 2: he loved every one of us and we are a

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Speaker 2: family and that's that's how we lived.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Every child was precious to every adult, and every adult

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Speaker 2: was respected by every child. And it was just you know,

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Speaker 2: like I say, it had its challenges, life does, but

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Speaker 2: it was heaven.

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Speaker 1: How are you too different? Because I know my mom

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Speaker 1: was saying last night that you you even between you two,

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Speaker 1: you have your agreements, and I'm curious what those are.

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Speaker 3: We have different lives. I mean, I walked out of

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Speaker 3: my marriage seven and a half years ago and she's

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Speaker 3: still in.

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Speaker 1: Hers Why did you walk out? Can I ask?

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Speaker 3: Well? There was it. It went really well for a

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Speaker 3: lot of years, and you know, obviously I had eleven children,

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Speaker 3: and it just got to the point where it just

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Speaker 3: was not working. Yeah, there got to be some abuse,

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Speaker 3: a lot, I mean a lot, too much alcohol and

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Speaker 3: it I was seven months pregnant when I walked away. Wow,

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, and it was it.

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Speaker 3: Most people don't realize it, but it had absolutely nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with the church. I didn't talk to one person.

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Speaker 3: I didn't talk to the bishop. I didn't talk to

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Speaker 3: anybody except I called my father and I said I'm done.

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Speaker 3: I can't handle this anymore. And my brothers came and

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Speaker 3: we gathered up my children and walked away.

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Speaker 1: That takes so much courage to do that in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night like that, with all of those kids.

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Speaker 1: That's really impressive.

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Speaker 3: And I've never regretted it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, is something like that, how do I word it?

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Speaker 4: Is divorce looked down upon in the religion, or if

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Speaker 4: you're walking away from something like that, it's.

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Speaker 3: We are taught that we can think for ourselves. You know,

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Speaker 3: we don't have to if the man is doing something

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Speaker 3: that we feel is wrong, we don't have to stay there.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Wow, yeah, that's more literal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is crazy. So the people you know in

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Speaker 1: the community who are still practicing plural marriage? Are there

305
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Speaker 1: many who are still practicing there?

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Speaker 2: There are quite a few families still living in in

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Speaker 2: plural situations.

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Speaker 3: There have been no new marriages.

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Speaker 1: Why is that?

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Speaker 3: Because we believe that our prophet is the one that

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Speaker 3: appoints the marriages. And he's been imprisoned for thirteen years.

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Speaker 5: So nobody can get married.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not saying nobody can get married, but they

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Speaker 2: have effectively made it so that we cannot communicate with

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Speaker 2: him in prison. And so you know, if Heavenly Father

316
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Speaker 2: were to have a marriage that, you know, a couple

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Speaker 2: that he wanted to put together, he would do that

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Speaker 2: through his profit. And his profit is in the prison

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Speaker 2: and can't physically see to that.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's been forbidden to have contact with the

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Speaker 1: outside world.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, people, sure on why we can't contact him?

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Speaker 2: Why we can't You know that if we were to

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Speaker 2: show up at the prison and ask to see him,

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Speaker 2: they would not let us see him.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people say he still controls

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Speaker 3: the community.

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Speaker 1: But there's no.

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Speaker 6: Contact to make phone calls to people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure there's probably a very select list

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Speaker 2: of maybe you know, very very close families. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if even the ladies that were married to him

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Speaker 2: are able to converse with him on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: Wow, did he select your marriages?

335
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Speaker 2: Heavenly father did, But yes it was by appointment. We

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Speaker 2: call it marriage by appointment, and so mine was.

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Speaker 1: And did you feel like happy with that toye?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't feel well forced.

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Speaker 2: Because number one, the way we're raised, we don't court

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Speaker 2: as young people. So you know, we tend to as

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Speaker 2: best we can with whatever space we have, separate the

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Speaker 2: sleeping quarters of boys and girls because we want, very

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Speaker 2: young in life, to help the children understand very clearly

345
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Speaker 2: about morals being moral, and that the boys don't go

346
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Speaker 2: where the girls dress, and the girls don't see the

347
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Speaker 2: boys while they're you know, taking care of their personal

348
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Speaker 2: toiletries and that just so that they get a real

349
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Speaker 2: clear idea of what is morally acceptable. And then you

350
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Speaker 2: don't have you know, siblings touching wrong and you know

351
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Speaker 2: all those kinds of problems that come with that, And

352
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Speaker 2: so it's actually quite natural for us to have a

353
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Speaker 2: marriage by appointment because from the earliest, earliest recollection, you're

354
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Speaker 2: you're taught to, you know, carry a very high moral standard.

355
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Speaker 2: So to to just, you know, dump you out in

356
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Speaker 2: the world and say, hey, go find a mate, wouldn't

357
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Speaker 2: he That would be horrid.

358
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Speaker 1: That's what I'm feeling with rying. I've been dumped out

359
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Speaker 1: in the world.

360
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Speaker 2: But the beauty of the thing is is I didn't

361
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Speaker 2: have to select who I'm married to. I didn't have

362
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: to choose him because he was handsome. I didn't have

363
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Speaker 2: to choose him because he was rich. I didn't have

364
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Speaker 2: to choose him because he was you.

365
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Speaker 6: Know, charming.

366
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Speaker 3: You learn and grow together.

367
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Speaker 2: Heavenly Father knew him, he knew me, and he knew

368
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Speaker 2: that we would be a really good cup.

369
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Speaker 1: So I think we are.

370
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Speaker 2: We've been married twenty years. There must be something to

371
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Speaker 2: it solid.

372
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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's more than I'll ever do.

373
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Speaker 2: So we have that comfort of knowing that our relationships

374
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Speaker 2: are based on something more than you know, looks or personality.

375
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Speaker 6: Or you know.

376
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Speaker 3: But to be clear, we're not forced into it. If

377
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Speaker 3: we don't feel good about that appointment, we have the

378
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Speaker 3: right to say no.

379
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Speaker 2: If we know that person to be not so good

380
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Speaker 2: of a person, or if that person has done things

381
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 2: that we know about that we're not comfortable with, then

382
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: we totally have the right to say I'm not comfortable

383
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Speaker 2: with that choice, and I'd like to think about it,

384
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: or I'd like to wait, or I just simply I'm

385
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: not going to marry him.

386
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Speaker 1: What if we have that right?

387
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Speaker 5: What if you fall in love with somebody before.

388
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Speaker 3: There's been many people that have gone to the Prophet

389
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Speaker 3: and said, hey, I like this person or this is

390
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 3: who I want to marry, and he'll put them together

391
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 3: if that's what they want.

392
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Speaker 6: Oh see, I.

393
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Speaker 2: Think that our heavenly father is very, very loving and giving,

394
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Speaker 2: and he understands what we his children are going through

395
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: in this mortal experience. And often they'll find out find

396
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 2: it's mutual, but they don't openly express that affection for

397
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: one another until they've you know, prayed about it and actually,

398
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, done some praying and some meditating and they

399
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: can totally go to the Prophet and say, you know,

400
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 2: this is how I feel about this person. And there's

401
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: been times where they've been put together, and there's been

402
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: times where he said, you know, Heavenly Fathers doesn't think

403
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: that's a real good idea, and they found out years later.

404
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 4: Why do you ever get mad that Heavenly Father set

405
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 4: you up with such a jerk?

406
00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: No, because it wasn't all bad. It kind of progressed

407
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 3: that way over the years. I can't be grateful enough

408
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,479
Speaker 3: for my wonderful children.

409
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Speaker 5: Are you interested in being married again?

410
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 3: I would definitely want to be married again. I think

411
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 3: my children do need a father, but I want it

412
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 3: to be someone who has the same moral standards and

413
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: faith that I have.

414
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell us a little bit about what is

415
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: going on with the evictions in Short Creek, which is

416
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: the home base of much of that FLBS.

417
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: So what has happened there is that the state has

418
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: decided to remove the religious Trust. And the original intent

419
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: of the trust was to enable the families there to

420
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 2: live what we call the United Order, and it's a

421
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: type of communal living where everyone works together for the

422
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: good of the whole, and that has lived and practiced

423
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: in the Short Creek Valley since the trust was Even

424
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 2: before the trust was created in nineteen forty two, they

425
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: took the trust, they reformed it, took outfully religious intent,

426
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: put it into the hands of X members of our faith,

427
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: and now the board is totally completely occupied by X

428
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 2: members of the faith.

429
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Speaker 6: They are at liberty to.

430
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Speaker 2: Decide who gets to stay on the trust used to

431
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 2: be religious land or be evicted.

432
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: So basically, the FLDS had a trust that owned about

433
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollars worth of property, which

434
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: included all the houses the members lived in. Once the

435
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: state of Utah took over the trust in two thousand

436
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: and six, they appointed ex members to redistribute the homes

437
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 1: because for current members, joining the trusts would be a

438
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: violation of the FLDS religion. And basically what that means

439
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: is people are getting evicted from their homes that they've

440
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: lived in for a long time.

441
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 2: Yes, and up to this point mostly members in good

442
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: standing of the faith are the ones that are being evicted.

443
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Speaker 3: The homes that people are being evicted out of are

444
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: the homes that they build built. Oh wow, they built

445
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 3: the home with their own money, there were no mortgages,

446
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 3: and then they get evicted out of this home and

447
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 3: it's all they've ever known or had. Wow.

448
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 4: So in my mind, it's it's kind of like a

449
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 4: piece of land. I'm thinking kind of like Amish, because

450
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: I know what that looks like is that it's like

451
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 4: a community on a piece of land that's very self regulated.

452
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 4: And that's kind of what you guys are saying. You

453
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 4: lived on you all worked that land, and now they're

454
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 4: kicking some people off of it.

455
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 5: Is that correct?

456
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 3: Yes?

457
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 5: Wow?

458
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 3: Wow?

459
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 4: And so they're not getting any money for their homes

460
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: or any anything back for what they built.

461
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: As I understand it, the reason for the trust taking

462
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 2: or excuse me, the reason for the state taking trust

463
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: was because there were complaints by ex members who had

464
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: left the faith that they were not getting compensated for

465
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: the homes that they built on the land as a

466
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: consecration when they were members got it.

467
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 4: So now, is it like there's a huge community of

468
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 4: people who have never had quote unquote normal jobs who

469
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 4: have to go find that life now.

470
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: Not necessarily, because I mean a lot of people have

471
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: had jobs all their lives. As soon as they were

472
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: old enought to get a.

473
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 4: Job, so they would off the community. Yes, yes, I see, okay, okay.

474
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: And also there's a lot of businesses in the community,

475
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: so a lot of the people you know in the

476
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: computer community would work at family owned businesses. You know,

477
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: there's a good deal of construction companies that were based

478
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: out of the Short Creek area where they will They've

479
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: gone all over the nation. It's not isolated like Amish

480
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: where we need it, where we don't communicate with the

481
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: outside world. I mean, we've had contractors with million dollar contracts,

482
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: so there's you know, more exposure. We have a definite lifestyle.

483
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: How would you describe that lifestyle?

484
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 6: Simple and modest.

485
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, for the most part. I mean we you know,

486
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 3: we we don't just shun technology. Yeah, we all have

487
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: our cell phones. We all have we have.

488
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: Our technological friends.

489
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

490
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: I think I'm friends with you on Facebook.

491
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: Esther.

492
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: So do you guys watch like movies and TV and

493
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: stuff like that on your phones or.

494
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: Is that once in a while.

495
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: That are you supposed to?

496
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody is. They kind of We kind of givered

497
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: ourselves a little bit. You know, we're not just just strict.

498
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: If you do this, then you're done right.

499
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: I was surprised last night because we went to dinner

500
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: with my mom and I offered them a taigh iced tea,

501
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and then I was quickly like, oh wait, it has

502
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: caffeine in it, because mainstream Mormons don't drink caffeine. And

503
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: they were like, we drink caffeine, We drink alcohol.

504
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: Really, you guys.

505
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 5: Get to drink alcohol. Wow.

506
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: My husband and I actually make homemade wine.

507
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

508
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: You know, we don't usually have a line and everything

509
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: on this side of the line is bad and everything

510
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: on this side of the line is good. You know,

511
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: life doesn't work that way. You know, it totally depends

512
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: on the person, the circumstance, and that's kind of how

513
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: we determine, you know, about the movies and about media

514
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: and about technology, and you know, in a family like

515
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: my family, we've got a lot to do. We've got

516
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: animals to take care of. We homeschool, my daughter's really

517
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: into sewing. My husband loves to cook, he likes to can.

518
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: We don't usually have movies in our home because there

519
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: are so many other things to do that, you know,

520
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: sit down and watch a movie is like what time?

521
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 5: Yeah?

522
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: So, why do you think these ex members are making

523
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: these choices to make people leave their homes.

524
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: That is a very good question, one that I don't

525
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: know that I have an answer for, but I know

526
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 2: that when you're a member of something and you are

527
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: contributing to it, it doesn't feel like you're sacrificing anything

528
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: because you're a contributing member and you're actually getting the rewards.

529
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: But when you step out or you stop a relationship

530
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: that you have put a lot into, sometimes we forget

531
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 2: what we have received from that relationship as well. And

532
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: I think that this must be kind of what they're feeling.

533
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: Are they moving into the homes?

534
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: Some of them are moving back into the evicted the

535
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: homes that have had the members evicted out. For some

536
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: of them, it's just because it's cheaper housing. Some of

537
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: the ex members that have actually been the builders of

538
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: homes and have left the faith and left the community,

539
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: we haven't seen or heard from them. They haven't even

540
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: contacted the Trust. Well.

541
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: Something that I've noticed that I think is really interest

542
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: saying when talking to my mother about all of this stuff,

543
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: is that there are people who leave and they have

544
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: strong beliefs about maybe who who Warren is That differ

545
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: from your beliefs. But whatever they may believe about Warren specifically,

546
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: or about Lyle his brother, or these men maybe who

547
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: have been in charge, even if they don't trust those

548
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: specific men. It's interesting to me that they it seems

549
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: like they also have a lot of resentment toward the

550
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: members who were not engaging in the behaviors that they

551
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: believe the other people were engaging in. Like, you guys

552
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: didn't do anything to anyone, you know, And as far

553
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: as I know, you're against child abuse?

554
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 5: Is that absolutely?

555
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 6: Absolutely you're not.

556
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: They are not pro child abuse. They just have different

557
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: beliefs about what happened than you know, people who leave

558
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: or the media and why. It's it's interesting to me

559
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: that they would want to punish the families, those children

560
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: because there are children who have to leave their homes. Correct.

561
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 2: Oh.

562
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, It's been devastating to see children having to carry

563
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: their belongings out of their home because they're being evicted.

564
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: There's even been schools being evicted and the children had

565
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: to pick up their books and their desks and walk

566
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: out the door while they when the eviction team came

567
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: and locked up there school. Wow, but we did just

568
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: get a school back from the UEP.

569
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: Yay with the help of your mother, Yes, go mom.

570
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: My mom is silently sitting in the corner. Did you

571
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: bring that blanket with you?

572
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 5: Oh?

573
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: She's on a very comfy chair with a blanket. It's

574
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 4: like she's in a ski lot.

575
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 5: I love it.

576
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 6: Well, she deserves it.

577
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, she can relax on lit.

578
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 2: While she worked very, very very hard to help us

579
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: get this school back from the trust, they really didn't

580
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: want to give it back. The idea, or the comment

581
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: of the fiduciary in the very beginning, was that he

582
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: wanted to cripple the community and he was going to

583
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: do that by attacking the financial arm.

584
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 6: Is what he called it.

585
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: So cy he targeted the businesses. I'm not sure if

586
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: he actually used that word, but I do know that

587
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 2: in a comment that he made, he used that he

588
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: was waging sociological warfare on the FLDS people. Wow, And

589
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: I felt like that was a pretty bold comment for him.

590
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a crazy thing to say.

591
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: Is he an ex member, No, he was just the

592
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: state appointed fiduciary that was supposed to be over seeing

593
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: the trust.

594
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: Well, let's go back to lifestyle stuff, because I feel

595
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: like that's interesting.

596
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

597
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: I was just going to say, on the last step

598
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 4: that we were talking about, I was thinking in my mind,

599
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: I was like, in la terms, it's like if you

600
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 4: were married to somebody and they got you a lot

601
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 4: of gifts, and then you get divorced and they're like,

602
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 4: I want all my gifts back.

603
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: My ex boyfriend literally on Christmas took his gifts back.

604
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: What on Christmas? The ones he gave you on Christmas?

605
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry. Christmas night up, when we were asleep,

606
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: he took all the presents he'd given me and packed

607
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: them in his suitcase. Why because we had a huge

608
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: fight and he had some issues.

609
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: Wow, this is not a Hallmark man.

610
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: And we broke up the next morning and he indeed

611
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: took all of my gifts back.

612
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, he took your gifts back before you

613
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: broke up?

614
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Well, he he had decided we were like I think

615
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: I had. I had been like, hey, if we keep

616
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: fighting like this, we're gonna we have to break up.

617
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: And then he was like, yeah, we're breaking up, you know,

618
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: as in a really reactionary way.

619
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 6: Did he keeped the gifts you gave him?

620
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: Cool question? I can't remember. So I gave him gifts.

621
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: The whole thing started because I gave him gifts and whatever,

622
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: it's a whole long story. Anyway, I'm sorry. He gave

623
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: me a laptop he had actually given me a laptop

624
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: for my birthday a week before, and he took the

625
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: laptop back.

626
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 5: Wow.

627
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 4: So I think we can all agree that's exactly what's

628
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 4: happening in your situation.

629
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: Anyway, don't do that. That's a bad thing. What were

630
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: you going to ask about lifestyle? My perception of the

631
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: FLDS before I knew you guys, was that it was

632
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: really really restrictive and really really contained and really closed

633
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: off to outsiders. There were all these stories about going

634
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: into outsiders, going into Short Creek and being followed by

635
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: SUVs to like scare them off or whatever. Squad the

636
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: God squad.

637
00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, before then, we didn't have the mom squad.

638
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: Now we have the Mom's Squad, and I'm sorry, we

639
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: totally up play.

640
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 5: I bet.

641
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: Wait tell us about that. What does that mean?

642
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: Well, Mom's Squad is something that we started calling ourselves

643
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: after we started following the evictions. When they started evicting,

644
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: very very heavily. They were doing in the neighborhood of

645
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 2: twenty evictions a day for us, and that went on

646
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: for almost a week, and so we got our cameras

647
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: out because in previously evictions, some people were actually met

648
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: at the door by officers with a gun to evictim

649
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: and there were no cameras, nobody was there to document it.

650
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: And there were evictions where they simply hauled everything from

651
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: the house and set it out on the street. You know,

652
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: they walked in, they said, ten minutes is all you have.

653
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: Anything you can get out of the house in ten minutes,

654
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: you can keep. The Mom's Squad is when they started

655
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: evicting real heavily like.

656
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 6: That, nobody would believe us.

657
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: We didn't have pictures, we didn't have any kind of

658
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: documentation to show what was truly going on with the evictions.

659
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: So we got together and we started watching and the

660
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: eviction team would just go up one side of the

661
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: street and down the other side of the street. So

662
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: we got our cameras out and we started filming, and

663
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: it made them real uncomfortable, thank goodness.

664
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: It actually got to the point where we would take

665
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: some of our children and go sit out by the

666
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 3: highway coming into town and watch for the locksmith.

667
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 6: Wow.

668
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: And then we'd call your mom and say, hey, come on.

669
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: And so that's where we got the Mom's Squad. So

670
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: our children got some exposure to the evictions. And after

671
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: you know, four or five sixty seven it kind of

672
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: got to the children. You know, they're like, maybe a

673
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: friend lived at that house, Well, why are they taking

674
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: Stephanie's house. It was hard to explain.

675
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 6: That to them.

676
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: You know, we have to be careful not to let

677
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: the children feel like that it's because you are bad

678
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: or because they don't like you.

679
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 4: So one of the questions that I have is, do

680
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 4: you guys explain to the children what they are accusing

681
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 4: the men of.

682
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: No, we generally keep quiet about, you know, the charges

683
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: of sexual abuse.

684
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 6: Number one.

685
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: We don't want to frighten the children, right, but number

686
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: two is a lot of those charges, to my knowledge

687
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: and to my experience, are faults. My children's father is

688
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 2: a very, very kind and all inclusive father. He likes

689
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: to include the children in everything, and it would be

690
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: devastating for them to feel like they couldn't trust him.

691
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 5: Right right.

692
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 4: I was also wondering what does that do to your

693
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 4: faith when you're like, why is God doing this to us?

694
00:36:59,200 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 6: Like?

695
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 4: What does how do you feel? Like, like what's the

696
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 4: purpose of this? Have you guys figured that out?

697
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 6: Yet?

698
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: Personally, I look at it as a test. You know,

699
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: we know that He's in control and that at some

700
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: point things will get better as long as we are

701
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: keeping our faith in doing what we in our hearts.

702
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: No is right.

703
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: How have things changed in the past like ten years

704
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: in the community, Because they've changed a lot, right, I feel.

705
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: Like they really have. You know, there's been a lot

706
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 3: of businesses that we're flds that have shut down, a

707
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of the people have moved away.

708
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 3: You know. In the last five years, nearly all of

709
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: my siblings have moved away from the community. And before that,

710
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: every one of us lived there.

711
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: Was that hard.

712
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: It's been really hard because it takes away this port system.

713
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,959
Speaker 3: You know, it's just it's hard to describe what it's

714
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 3: done to the children, to everybody. The support system's gone.

715
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: You know, the friends are gone, the people that were

716
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: helping you homeschool your children because we do homeschool our children,

717
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: and it's just gone. Now there's only four of my

718
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: family members still in the community.

719
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 4: So when you say in the community, does it if

720
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 4: you move away from the community, are you leaving the

721
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 4: church as well, or are you just living in a

722
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 4: different part of It're just living.

723
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: In a different part of the world, Like already moving

724
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: away from the community.

725
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: Got it?

726
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: The faith is not dissolved, but you know, physically as

727
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 2: to geographic location, the community has been very much dissolved.

728
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: I remember when I first visited the town years ago,

729
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: before my mom I think had even ever been there.

730
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 1: It seems like entirely FLDS. And now when you go there,

731
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: there's like a bar. I think there's a drug like

732
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: a weed store or something. There's like it's you know,

733
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: it's become a lot more secular, and there are a

734
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: lot more outsiders there. Where did everyone go? Where are

735
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: they Well?

736
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: A lot of the larger families and the families that

737
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: were able to do it financially, actually moved out before

738
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: the eviction notices came to their door, simply because they

739
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: could save their children that trauma. You know, if they

740
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: could kind of see it coming and find a different community,

741
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: and you know, they could get work because you know,

742
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: all of the adults are having to take jobs to

743
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: pay mortgages and pay rents, which is something they never

744
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: had to do before. Everything your life was a consecration

745
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 2: to the way you lived and and you didn't have

746
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: to pay any fees for that, right.

747
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: The homes and Short Creak are large homes. Yeah, so

748
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: there were many people in these big homes. Many you know,

749
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: a lot of families had fair or four mother and

750
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: sometimes more than that. And when the evictions came and

751
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 3: they had to move out of the community into the

752
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: outside world, they couldn't find a home big enough for

753
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 3: the whole family, and so it split up the families.

754
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: The children had to separate from their siblings.

755
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: Right because a house that big. Paying for a house

756
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: that big outside of the community is crazy. There are

757
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: big houses and they have to be.

758
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: Some of the homes in our community would have twenty bedrooms.

759
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: There was one home that my mother actually lived in

760
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 3: for a while that I don't even remember how many

761
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: bedrooms it had. There was close to forty bedrooms. And

762
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: in that home when it was evicted, there were one

763
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty people. WHOA that had to go find

764
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: homes elsewhere.

765
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: How did they all fit?

766
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,479
Speaker 4: So there was like three people a room. I can't

767
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: do math four people four times.

768
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: There were four good size one hundred.

769
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: And sixty Yeah, wow, WHOA, that's so many people.

770
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 4: I kind of I mean, I know a little bit

771
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 4: about this because it's different. But I watched that TV

772
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: show Sister Wives where they had to move to Las

773
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 4: Vegas and they all couldn't live together anymore, and it.

774
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: Was really sad. Yeah, I've never seen it.

775
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 5: Oh, it's really it's really good.

776
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: How do you guys feel about it, Sister Wives.

777
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 3: I've never watched it. I've heard little bits here, okay,

778
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 3: and I'm sure, but I know that they're very different

779
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 3: from us.

780
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the families moving out, some of them did have

781
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: to separate. It's really really put a strain on the

782
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: social structure.

783
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 3: And a huge financial burden having day come up with

784
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: that many homes for one family.

785
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, one family will have somewhere in the neighborhood of

786
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 2: one to four rent payments or mortgages.

787
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 1: Wow.

788
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 6: To accommodate whole family?

789
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: Was stuff?

790
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 1: Was food provided for everyone previously? Or how did that work?

791
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: Because that's a lot of mouths to feed.

792
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 3: Well. In my situation, clear up until the food stamp

793
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: fraud raid an investigation, because I had left my husband,

794
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 3: we were being supported by the storehouse and by the bishop,

795
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 3: and my utilities and everything were being taken care of

796
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 3: because I was a single mom with eleven children. And

797
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: when they came in and raided in the investigation, they

798
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: took all of the assets of the store house, all

799
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: the funding you know that was supporting the single moms

800
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: and the the church with.

801
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: The church church founds, right, So it goes from this

802
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: community where everyone's supporting everyone to suddenly one mom has

803
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: to take care of all of these kids by herself

804
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: and like pay all these payments that they didn't have

805
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: to pay. I mean, what a lifestyle change it's been.

806
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: I don't even know how to discription how big I've

807
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: changed it's been.

808
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds so hard.

809
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 5: Is there anything good coming out of it?

810
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 3: Yes, we met Lola and her mom.

811
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: And it's so good my mom and I've made and

812
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: trust me, these are good things.

813
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: For context, my mom lives in Short Creek. My mom

814
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: and my stepdad live there. Actually my brother right now

815
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: as well, and they've been doing a lot of work

816
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: to help in any way that they can, which has

817
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: been really cool to see. But my mother is not

818
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: is not a member of that fails. She is just

819
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: a nice lady. What else do you think would surprise

820
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: people to know?

821
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 3: Well, let's see my oldest daughter, who's twenty, by the way,

822
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 3: she has her own car, she has her own you know,

823
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: she has a cell phone, she has a job in

824
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 3: Saint George, and I don't know if she's gonna want

825
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 3: me to tell everybody this, but she has an is

826
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 3: fan account.

827
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, that's adorable.

828
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 5: Who doesn't like for real?

829
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 6: Oh?

830
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: I love that?

831
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 4: So so you guys are encouraged to marry inside of

832
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 4: the faith pretty much. But if Shawn Mendes came along,

833
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 4: you would be fine.

834
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: If he can buy houses for every Yeah, you can

835
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: buy the whole thing.

836
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I honestly don't know what she would do

837
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: if she actually met him. I mean she went to

838
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 3: a meet and greet and we went. I did go

839
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: with her to a Shawn Mende's concert.

840
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, why thing? Did you like it? Do

841
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 1: you have fun?

842
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. I I do like his music. I

843
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: love in my blood.

844
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: I know I like this.

845
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 5: Oh good the treadmill.

846
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 3: It was really amusing to me going to the concert

847
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 3: and watching. However, they stared at us because.

848
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: We just went, yeah, do you do people treat you

849
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: strangely or differently?

850
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 3: Like most people that I have run into are very respectful.

851
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 3: They see us in that it's almost like, I don't know,

852
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 3: it's it's really different.

853
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: A good deal of them will will approach us and

854
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: say how how they admire the way we're rested, and

855
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: so that's that's refreshing, that's so nice, because you know,

856
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: in the area around Saint George, you know, we're very stigmatized.

857
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: There was actually even a time when somehow, some I

858
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: don't know where the idea had come from, but the

859
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: idea was that.

860
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 6: We were a terrorist group, oh man.

861
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: And that people dressed like us were hiding guns under

862
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: their skirt when people would, you know, almost get frightened

863
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: look when they saw us, and we didn't understand what

864
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: was going on until finally someone's like, oh, it's because

865
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: they think you're a terrorist group and they think you're

866
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: hiding guns under your skirt, and they think, I'm like,

867
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: where in the world did they get that idea?

868
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: Where did they get that idea? Where do you think?

869
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: I think that it might have somehow centered around the

870
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 2: arrest of Warren Jeff's because one of the ways they

871
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: used to get his sentencing so high for so long

872
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: is that they decided that we were a dangerous terrorist

873
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 2: cult and that somehow, like Isis or something, that we

874
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: were teaching our children to hate outsiders to a point

875
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: where we were desensitizing them to the fact that they

876
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: could kill other people.

877
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: M h, well, what has been your experience meeting our children?

878
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 3: Do they look like children that have been taught to

879
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: hate your.

880
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: They will not leave you alone, They climb on top

881
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: of me, and no, they're so sweet. I mean that,

882
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, now obviously knowing you guys, that's

883
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 1: such a crazy idea. But yeah, I think it's really

884
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 1: easy for people to see something they don't understand, especially

885
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: when there is a high profile criminal case surrounding a community,

886
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: and kind of lump everyone together and say, well, that

887
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: monolithic group right there, those people are are bad, you know.

888
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: Yes, And one thing about our religion is it's really

889
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: easy to tell who we are when you see us

890
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: walking down the street.

891
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: Right right, you are quite distinctive.

892
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: So, Laurie, we've heard a rumor that you do not

893
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 4: know who can Kardashian is true or false?

894
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 6: Wow? How do I answer that? True or fault? I

895
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 6: just learned who Kim Kardashian is.

896
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 5: What do you think National Treasure?

897
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 6: I have no comment.

898
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: Do you find that there are like cultural icons like

899
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: that that you have never heard of? Does that happen

900
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: a lot?

901
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: I imagine it's it's very very common in our community.

902
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: Laurie probably doesn't even know who shann.

903
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 5: Do you.

904
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 6: No, I've heard that name before, but I don't know

905
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 6: who it is.

906
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, I barely know who he is,

907
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: but I do like those songs. Have you heard of

908
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: like Lady Gaga?

909
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 6: I've heard all of it.

910
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: But like like I said again, I generally the people

911
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: of our faith, Oh yeah, we generally don't watch the

912
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 2: news and the television and listen to the radio and

913
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: you subscribe to magazines and stuff, simply because there's very

914
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: little value.

915
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 6: In it for us.

916
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: When they trial and that were going on for our leaders,

917
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: there was a great deal of disagreement between what we

918
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: knew those men to be and what the media was

919
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: portraying them to be, and so we just figured we

920
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: didn't need it in our lives. It wasn't helping us

921
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 2: in any way, and the children really aren't missing out.

922
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 5: What about politics? Are you involved in politics at all?

923
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 5: Do you guys vote?

924
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: Yes, we vote, and we encourage all of the children

925
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: that are come eighteen to register and be a voter

926
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 2: because we believe that voting is one of the ways

927
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: for a person to really contribute to their community.

928
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree completely well, love very much. I

929
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: strongly agree that's that's also great Jehope his witnesses, which

930
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: I feel like are not nearly as stigmatized as you

931
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: guys are. They are forbidden from voting at least the

932
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: people that I knew or not.

933
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 3: How did I expect to make a difference.

934
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: They don't. They leave it all in God's hands, and they,

935
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: you know, are encouraged at least. Again, I'm sure that

936
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: there are people who've had different experiences than the people

937
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: that I've spoken to, But the people that I've talked

938
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: to were discouraged from pursuing their passions because it was

939
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: a distraction from God. And I'm participating in elections because

940
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: it's again, it's all just a distraction. I disagree with

941
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: that philosophy.

942
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 2: It seems like God does a lot better with boots

943
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: on the ground.

944
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: Ain't it. Two questions? Do you guys listen to music

945
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: or do the other than the Shawn Mendas thing we do.

946
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 2: My children generally listen to the recordings that different families

947
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: have made just home, home made, homegrown music is what

948
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: we call it. There's been families that that actually did

949
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 2: professional recordings of their families singing, And.

950
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 4: Is there any family who's like recorded an album? And

951
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 4: you're like, whoah, not good, not that I know of.

952
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 3: I've heard work pretty good.

953
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So much musical talent. And what do you

954
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: do when you're like, oh, such a long day, so

955
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,720
Speaker 1: much kids stuff, so much like work. I am so tired.

956
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: I need to just relax. What do you do to relax?

957
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 3: I play word blitz against your mom.

958
00:51:58,600 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 6: I like a good book.

959
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I really really like the personal development books.

960
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: I like books on economics and history and well, you know,

961
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: I love books.

962
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know it's about you? Was awesome.

963
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 4: Can we can we go into the day that they came? Like,

964
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 4: all I've seen is the pictures of the day that

965
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 4: they came, and everybody's like bawling. Can we talk about that?

966
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 4: Or is that off the table? Were you guys there?

967
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 3: We weren't there.

968
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 6: I yah.

969
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 2: We had relatives that were living on that ranch in Texas.

970
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: One thing that was really hard for me about that

971
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 3: situation was I had stepsisters who were there and had

972
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: their children taken away. And let's see, I was I

973
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: had a baby three weeks later and I remember laying

974
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 3: in the bed holding my baby and just I didn't

975
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: want to let him out of my sight because I

976
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 3: was afraid that somebody was going to show up and

977
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 3: take him away from me. I didn't know that they

978
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 3: wouldn't come and raid short creak and take the children,

979
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 3: right because in nineteen fifty three, my parents were taken

980
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: away from there from the community.

981
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 4: Wow.

982
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: Why, Well, the state of Arizona came in and raided

983
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: the whole community, and they were they had the intention

984
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 3: of jailen the fathers. I don't know what they were

985
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: going to do with the mothers, but they putting the

986
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: bringing the mothers in detention homes and taking the children

987
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 3: and adopting them out all the children in the community.

988
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: Was that because polygamy was illegal or was there a

989
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: separate charge?

990
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: There weren't actually any laws against plural marriage until the

991
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 2: George Reynolds case in eighteen.

992
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: Wow, I can't please the fact that you remember. The

993
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: eighteen part is more than eighteen.

994
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 6: It could have been eighteen seventy three.

995
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: It was after the federal courts were pressuring the people

996
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,919
Speaker 2: to eliminate that tenet of the religion. Like I said,

997
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 2: as a stipulation to becoming a state. There were people

998
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: in the eighteen hundreds that were also jailed for their

999
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 2: having more than one wife. And the anti polygamy legislation

1000
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: was put in place after people were already living the law.

1001
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: Right.

1002
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: It wasn't like they made this law and then all

1003
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 1: of you were like, I'm going to break this law.

1004
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: Now you were already living this lifestyle and then they

1005
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: like retroactively made it illegal. So is there anything else

1006
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: that you would like people to know about you? Anything

1007
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:37,479
Speaker 1: you want to say?

1008
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: Well, for me, I you know, sometimes people are afraid

1009
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 3: to approach me, approach us and say and ask questions.

1010
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 3: And personally, I would so much rather if somebody has

1011
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 3: a question, if they would actually ask, rather than just

1012
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 3: going away thinking that this is how it is.

1013
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a question.

1014
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 4: Then, how how do you guys know that that this

1015
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 4: didn't happen like that, the that the bad things didn't

1016
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 4: happen in the community.

1017
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: That's just not the way we know that person to.

1018
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 4: Be got It's like a personal experience that's just in

1019
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 4: your heart.

1020
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 6: A double answer to that question.

1021
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: These these men that have been accused of these things,

1022
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: we were young children when they were teenagers right or

1023
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: young adults. The earmarks of abuse aren't there. Hi, and

1024
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: then my personal experiences with them is that they're very trustworthy.

1025
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1026
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 3: Well there's another thing, and that's that there are definitely

1027
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 3: some men from our community that just give you the creeps.

1028
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 3: You know, just don't fell there are men, yeah and there,

1029
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 3: and then later on you find out have severely abused

1030
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 3: their children, are molested them and done things, done terrible things.

1031
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: I know, it's a source of a lot of contention.

1032
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we want to respect people's feelings and ideas.

1033
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: All of us don't know what it is, we don't know.

1034
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: And also just a comment for everyone, I really really

1035
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 2: feel like that, like I've said before, everyone should believe

1036
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 2: in something, and I believe that in this country that

1037
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: freedom of religion is under attack. If you can believe

1038
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 2: in something anything, do it and stand on it and

1039
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 2: believe in it, and don't allow people who who want

1040
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 2: to tear you down for whatever the reason might be,

1041
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: to take away that fundamental right to just simply believe

1042
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 2: as you are led.

1043
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: You believe that about all religions, all Muslims, and.

1044
00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: I absolutely all religions. If you have faith in something

1045
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 2: stand on it.

1046
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone everyone deserves the chance to be able

1047
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: to practice what they believe, really, so long as no

1048
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: one is harmed in the process, right, Yeah, absolutely, I agree. Yeah,

1049
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: And I will reiterate here. If you find out someone

1050
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: is an abuser, are you against that?

1051
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you something in my personal experience, when

1052
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 3: I find out somebody's being abused, I'll be the first

1053
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 3: one to call of police.

1054
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: Ironically, the place that I learned that abuse will not

1055
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: be tolerated and that if you know of abuse, you

1056
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: should be the first one to report it.

1057
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 6: I learned that from Warren.

1058
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: Jeff's He's the one who taught you that.

1059
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 2: He's the one that taught me that. He said, if

1060
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 2: you see it or hear of it, or if you

1061
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: even know about it and you don't report it, you

1062
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: are a party to that abuse is not tolerated. Heavenly

1063
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: Father doesn't want his children abused ever in any society.

1064
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 4: So if Warren Jeffs was proven guilty of this, would

1065
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 4: there still be a faith left for you guys?

1066
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 5: Or is absolutely okay? I see?

1067
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1068
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: The FLDS faith is f for fundamentalists and LDS, So

1069
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: basically we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ

1070
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: of Latter day Saints in a very very fundamental way.

1071
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: Right, any final thoughts? Okay, my mom in the corner

1072
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,439
Speaker 1: would like me to emphasize that they got this school back,

1073
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: but there are no books, there are no resources to

1074
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: put inside the school computers, and she does have an

1075
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: organization that helps with that. So if you want to

1076
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: contribute to helping this community flourish, go to voices for

1077
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: dignity dot com. There I plugged it, mom. Okay. Well,

1078
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: Esther and Laurie, thank you so much for sharing with us.

1079
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: This was awesome.

1080
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 3: Thank you for having pleasure to be here.

1081
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1082
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: Well, that was awesome. So, Megan, what do you think

1083
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: would you join this group?

1084
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 3: Who?

1085
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 4: Okay, I think that it's really cool to live with

1086
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 4: a bunch of your girlfriends. I think that's really something totally. Yeah.

1087
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,439
Speaker 4: Other than that, I don't think I'm up to join

1088
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: this group.

1089
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's really specific, not for everyone, but we

1090
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: love Esther and Laurie. Yeah, and if you know what,

1091
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: if I got to hang out with Esther and Laurie more,

1092
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be so bad.

1093
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 5: That's true.

1094
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, maybe no, maybe not for us. Yeah, no,

1095
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: I don't think you can find me Lola on Instagram

1096
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: at Ula Lola. Oh oh h l A l O

1097
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: l A. You can just find me at Megan Granger,

1098
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: me Aja and Jerry g e R.

1099
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 4: All Right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Please

1100
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 4: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags,

1101
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 4: and never ever trust me,