1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,759
Speaker 1: Hey, my name is Kevis and I was really scared

2
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 1: to get tested for HIV, but I knew I had

3
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: to do it. So I found out my status and

4
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll also learn from a doctor that

5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 1: HIV is not a death sense their medications available to

6
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 1: treat HIV and options to prevent it. So my advice

7
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 1: if you haven't done so, get tested, know your status.

8
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad I do, and press playing on What's next.

9
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:34,400
Speaker 1: Learn more at nom status dot com. Sometimes life can

10
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,920
Speaker 1: be complicated and messy, and inner society made up of

11
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,560
Speaker 1: so many rules and expectations, Being yourself can be seen

12
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: as an act of rebellion or bravery. Hi, I'm Zach

13
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 1: Stafford and this is in the deep stories that shape us.

14
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: Join me as our guests black and Latin X men

15
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,360
Speaker 1: unravel the complexities and struggles they face in a place

16
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't always see them, all of them for who

17
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 1: they really are. I sit down with the people, the athletes, community,

18
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 1: and thought leaders that have struggled with the traditional ideals

19
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 1: of masculinity, religion, and family the society often imposes upon them.

20
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,240
Speaker 1: Each episode, we explore the fears that make up the

21
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,319
Speaker 1: Black and Latin X male psyche understanding the effects of

22
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 1: stigma and masculinity on self identity. We'll talk about how

23
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,120
Speaker 1: these common themes of discrimination, culture, and economics factor into

24
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 1: the struggle, and yet how these hardships aren't enough to

25
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,959
Speaker 1: stop these men on the road to health and healing.

26
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,119
Speaker 1: I want to start off our very first episode by

27
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,399
Speaker 1: talking about something I'm incredibly passionate about. Stories. Stories we

28
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,399
Speaker 1: are told by family members, stories we tell ourselves to

29
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,679
Speaker 1: make sense of the world around us, and even the

30
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 1: stories we tell ourselves to stay alive. I'm so passionate

31
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: about storytelling, not just because of my background as a journalist,

32
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 1: but because I always say that the one thing we

33
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: all do besides eat and drink each day is tell

34
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: each other stories. It's how we all communicate. But what

35
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: we rarely talk about is how these stories shape our

36
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 1: entire lives, maybe more than anything else, especially when it

37
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: comes to understanding the good and the bad that happens

38
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,680
Speaker 1: to each of us. Today's guest, Frederick Joseph, is special

39
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: because he teaches us how to take our own stories

40
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 1: and swap trauma for love in a really beautiful and

41
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,079
Speaker 1: expansive way. He's a New York Times bestselling author, activists,

42
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 1: and philanthropists. Who isn't a stranger to heartbreak? And I

43
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,800
Speaker 1: think his own stories of love and loss are something

44
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,080
Speaker 1: we can all relate to, especially when some of his

45
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,600
Speaker 1: own stories weren't always the truth as he now knows it.

46
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 1: But before we get to the heavier stuff, I want

47
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: to hear from Frederick where did his story begin? Frederick,

48
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 1: it's so great to have you today, and I'd love

49
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: to begin our conversation for the listeners just to locate

50
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 1: who you are and where you come from. So tell

51
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 1: us where did you grow up? What was your family?

52
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: Like all those good details about your past. Yeah, so

53
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000
Speaker 1: I grew up in Yas in New York. And for

54
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 1: those who aren't familiar with Yonkers, all of us like

55
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,639
Speaker 1: to say, well, that's where like Mary J. Blodge is from,

56
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 1: and that's where DMX is from. So Yonkers is interesting.

57
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,920
Speaker 1: And I, you know, frankly, I grew up in the

58
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: projects right, raised by a single black mother, and I

59
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 1: had a ton of family in two places which also

60
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: helped shape me, in Philadelphia and in Columbia, South Carolina.

61
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 1: So I spent weeks at a time in South Carolina

62
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,239
Speaker 1: every few months, and then just kind of zipping the

63
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: Philly and things like that. So those all are just

64
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 1: ingrained in my DNA. You could say, yeah, and I

65
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: had a like the inverse of that. I grew up

66
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: in Tennessee, but would go to the north, to Baltimore,

67
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: to Iowa, to Chicago to see family. And you know,

68
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 1: people don't like to think of us as black men,

69
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 1: as particularly mobile people in the world that we have

70
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: families all around. But it's a big part about being

71
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,160
Speaker 1: black in America because dude, of the great migration, our

72
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,000
Speaker 1: families are all over. What was it like for you

73
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: to go back and forth between these two places that

74
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 1: I know personally blackness masculinity animates itself very differently in

75
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: these places sometimes, you know, I think that's an excellent

76
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 1: way of putting it. The manifestations of patriarchy, quite frankly,

77
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 1: are different in all places. So like in New York,

78
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's this culture of art. I would say,

79
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,480
Speaker 1: men and boys, especially black men and black boys, can

80
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,600
Speaker 1: practice art, but specific types of art. If you're going

81
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: to be in music, it had to be hip hop

82
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 1: or rap or maybe like extremely you know, for lack

83
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: of better term, like swagged out R and B or whatever. Right.

84
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,040
Speaker 1: But then in the South it was very sports and

85
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 1: labor intensive. I would go down to South Carolina and

86
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 1: that's actually where I learned to play football, you know,

87
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: just like yeah, like I learned to play football in

88
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,360
Speaker 1: the South, which is kind of like why I did

89
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: so well in the normal. So I think that the

90
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 1: way masculinity and then patriarchy kind of manifests in the

91
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: South for me were just like why are you doing

92
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 1: anything pertaining in music? Why do you care about anything

93
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: pertaining to art? Why are you not more physical? Why

94
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: you not you know, kind of like more aggressive. It

95
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,359
Speaker 1: was very, very interesting how that played out. You know,

96
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 1: A word that would come up really easily for us

97
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 1: to say is code switching, you know, cut switching, the

98
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 1: very academic word where we usually refer to that in

99
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 1: like white versus Black spaces, Like you go to your

100
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: corporate job as a black man and you act certain ways.

101
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 1: You go back to your community, you act one way,

102
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: but we never talk about an intra community about how

103
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,280
Speaker 1: our masculinity is changing. Do you relate to that? Did

104
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 1: you find yourself changing between black communities? I was a

105
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: surrogate for Elizabeth Warren's presidential campaign in twenty twenty and

106
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 1: I would get sent to the South all the time

107
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 1: to meet with black people in various spaces, whether that

108
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,840
Speaker 1: was barbershops or hair salons or churches. There's like these

109
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 1: recordings which my fiance laugh sack. She's like, oh, whenever

110
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: you go to the South, you become a Baptist preacher,

111
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,440
Speaker 1: whenever you're speaking publicly. And I'm just like, yeah, you know,

112
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 1: because I do code switch down there. Down there, I

113
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 1: get very I get very Jesus five. In the North,

114
00:05:57,920 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, hey, you the restaurant, I'm like, hey,

115
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 1: do you have any kale and grilled chicken down there?

116
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,039
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you've got you know, you've been Yeah,

117
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, make sure them greens, they got so much

118
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 1: vinegar in them. Yeah, so they know exactly what you Yes,

119
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: there is definitely this cold switching within blackness, and I

120
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,599
Speaker 1: think that that speaks to the dynamism of the black community,

121
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: which is oftentimes a race through the white lens that

122
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 1: is the media, the white lens that is entertainment and

123
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: publishing in all these different spaces, as if we're a monolith.

124
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,239
Speaker 1: But it's far from the truth. Much of what Frederick

125
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 1: talks about reminds me of this idea I've heard before,

126
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 1: that a stereotype is just a chapter in a book

127
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 1: you haven't fully read. And as a black man myself,

128
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,040
Speaker 1: I know the realities that come with so many stereotypes

129
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,320
Speaker 1: constantly thrust upon us. So I wanted to hear from

130
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 1: Frederick what was that moment, that aha moment that made

131
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 1: him realize that blackness wasn't a one size fits all.

132
00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 1: I had the privilege of going to performing our elementary

133
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 1: school in Yonkers, and you know, I went to my

134
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 1: first Broadway show when I was about eight years old.

135
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,440
Speaker 1: I saw a Phantom of the Opera I'll Never forget.

136
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: My grandmother and I went, and I had to be

137
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 1: quite frank. I don't even think I had ever been

138
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 1: to Manhattan, let alone to a Broadway show. I see

139
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 1: this play and I'm just like, awe struck. I'm like,

140
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 1: oh my God, like, what is this right? Because the

141
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: world that I come from, it's just completely different. So

142
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: what ends up taking place is I'm walking out and

143
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: there was this other play happening at the exact same time.

144
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 1: It was Aida and Aida at the time was the

145
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 1: star of Aida was Heather Headley, phenomenal phenomenal actress. And

146
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 1: I had just came from seeing this like brilliant show,

147
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 1: like starring a cast of full white people or whatever.

148
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: But I'm like, there's a black show. Black people don't

149
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: have shows like like this, right, So that moment switched

150
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: something in me because one, I didn't know that this

151
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: world existed, and I didn't know that black people, if

152
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,840
Speaker 1: this world exists, were allowed to exist within that world

153
00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 1: that I didn't know existed, Right, So when I went home,

154
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: it made me question all of the constructs of blackness

155
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 1: that were imposed upon me everywhere I looked. Right, it

156
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 1: was like, oh, black people have to perform this, or

157
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 1: have to sing this, or have to sing that, or

158
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 1: have to only get to do these certain things. I'm like, well,

159
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,680
Speaker 1: what about Heather Heavily? What about Heather? Yeah? What about Heather?

160
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 1: You know, hearing that story makes me better understand more

161
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 1: than I did before. Why you have a book coming

162
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: out called Patriarchy Blues, which explores as us a masculinity

163
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: patriarchy from both a personal and cultural standpoint. So why

164
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 1: did you decide to put this book out now? And

165
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,679
Speaker 1: how are your own personal stories like the one you

166
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 1: should before influencing that book right now. So Patriarchy Blues

167
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 1: is interesting because when my personality is very much that

168
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 1: like my grandmother kind of built in me this idea

169
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 1: of as long as you have the ability to use

170
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,959
Speaker 1: your hands for good work, then use your hands for

171
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 1: good work, right. And patriarch specifically is like aimed at

172
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 1: myself to a certain extent, right, I think that a

173
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: lot of people do the easy thing of like pointing

174
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 1: the finger and wagging the finger at people and telling

175
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,240
Speaker 1: them how they're wrong. But it takes something really special

176
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable and courageous and calling yourself out about

177
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,319
Speaker 1: how you've been wrong, right. And I think that that's

178
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: the actual work that people need to get to. So

179
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: Patriarchy Blues is me saying like, hey, you know, I

180
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: was molested by my babysitter from eight to ten years old,

181
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 1: and that put a chasm in my heart and actually

182
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: made me develop this anger towards women, and that anger

183
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 1: ended up evolving into becoming a womanizer in my teens

184
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: and in my twenties. That juxtaposed with living in this heteronormative,

185
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 1: patriarchal society, right, I was just like oh yeah, like,

186
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 1: oh I'm doing the right thing, not only am I

187
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: justified in my pain? But I'm doing the right thing.

188
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,640
Speaker 1: Society is telling me that. But what does it look

189
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 1: like to be in your thirties and actually say, like, hey,

190
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,840
Speaker 1: I've spent the last decade plus unpacking and trying to

191
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 1: be better than this. But I don't think that this

192
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,800
Speaker 1: is just my work. This is our work, right, Like,

193
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 1: this is our work as a community. Then I have

194
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: to ask you, you know, as like a fellow, a

195
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 1: person that has moved to the world pretty similarly in identity,

196
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 1: where did you find this bravery to do that work?

197
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: What I have is my story, right, I was like,

198
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: if I have nothing else, I have my story, my

199
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,319
Speaker 1: story of pain, my story of joy, my story of agony,

200
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: my story of desperation. And if I can, in my words,

201
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 1: use my pen to be vulnerable, combined with my understanding

202
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 1: of kind of how to market and tell stories from

203
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,920
Speaker 1: that lens, then I think that, you know, my theory

204
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: of change is like people will grow. What lives might

205
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 1: that save? If I'm willing to do that, right, what

206
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: courage might that bring? And I think it just like

207
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 1: honestly came from you know, when I was about twenty four,

208
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 1: I found out that I have multiple scrossis, and you know,

209
00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 1: a lot of things changed at that moment where I

210
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: I didn't spend all of my late twenties drinking and partying.

211
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of my late twenties trying to

212
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,360
Speaker 1: develop the wisdom of a man in his seventies. Right, Like,

213
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 1: if I was to look back on my life, if

214
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: I was to believe this earth tomorrow, what do you

215
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 1: want your legacy to be? And I want mine to

216
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,599
Speaker 1: be a legacy of progress in healing. This road to

217
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 1: healing reminds me a lot about the power of truth. Often,

218
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,600
Speaker 1: the stories that are told to us are just as

219
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 1: important to the shaping of our lives as the stories

220
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,839
Speaker 1: we create ourselves. I relate to this idea of truth

221
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,720
Speaker 1: and stories because, like Frederick, I've had an uncle pass

222
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: from complications due to HIV and was told it was cancer.

223
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: I was curious how that shaped his story, his community work,

224
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: and what his uncle represented in his life. Man, that

225
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 1: is that's a nuanced story. So to tell that I

226
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 1: have to first, you know, kind of talk about the

227
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,840
Speaker 1: matriarch of my family, who was my grandmother. Film of Forward.

228
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 1: She passed of breast cancer when I was eighteen, and

229
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: it was her second bout with breast cancer. The first

230
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: time she didn't tell anybody. The second time she said

231
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: she had a cold until she couldn't leave the hospital. Right,

232
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 1: there's this aspect, I think, especially of certain generations of

233
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,320
Speaker 1: black people, as she was from you know, once again,

234
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 1: she was from South Carolina, came up to the North.

235
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: She left the South because her first husband had been

236
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 1: lynched by the clan that's the father of my uncle

237
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,320
Speaker 1: who actually died of HIV. So just for some context,

238
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,680
Speaker 1: real quick, she grew up in this hard, hard way,

239
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: like she came up hard. Right. So the way that

240
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: she has viewed not just masculinity, but the way she

241
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,800
Speaker 1: has viewed blackness is that it has to be as

242
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 1: tough as steel, or else it will be bent, broken,

243
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 1: melted down, you know, and then turned into bulletsty would

244
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 1: probably be aimed at up other black people. Right. Yeah,

245
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,560
Speaker 1: So she was a lovely person who also didn't spend

246
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: any time with the privilege that I have of navigating

247
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,960
Speaker 1: what it means to just be and not navigating what

248
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 1: it just means to be. She of course to navigate

249
00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,199
Speaker 1: other people's realities, such as homosexuality. Right, And it was

250
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,079
Speaker 1: just the propaganda of homosexuality, which she surface level was like, okay,

251
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 1: surface level, this is what I know, this is what

252
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 1: I understand, and this is what I don't want because

253
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 1: she's equating homosexuality. I'd imagine with all the things that

254
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 1: were the opposite of what a black person needs to survive. Right.

255
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:24,439
Speaker 1: So again, when you have in the seventies, eighties, nineties,

256
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 1: these things that are happening in the community, from the

257
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: epidemic of drugs, the epidemic of violence, so on and

258
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 1: so forth, you get a major usage of heroin. So

259
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: my uncle he was a heroin user and ultimately passed

260
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 1: by contracting HIV from a needle. But with the propaganda,

261
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: HIV can't be contracted with a needle from drug use, right,

262
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: of course not, because HIV can only be contracted during

263
00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: that time and even now, I'm not gonna even just

264
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 1: it on a time even now, Problematically, the view is

265
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: that HIV is solely contracted through same sex acts. So ultimately,

266
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,360
Speaker 1: when he did have HIV, my grandmother refused to tell

267
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 1: people that, right, And it wasn't just about homosexuality, it

268
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: was about everything that came along with it, I'm sure, right, Like, oh,

269
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,040
Speaker 1: my uncle's name was Butch. This is Butch Junior. Butch

270
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 1: Senior was murdered by the Ku Klux Klan fighting back

271
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 1: being a revolutionary in South Carolina in the sixties. There

272
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: is no way that Butch Senior's son is anything but hard,

273
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: anything but tough. Anything. But you know the only thing

274
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 1: that could put him down is cancer. Because cancer, everybody

275
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 1: understands that. So I was lied to and everybody was

276
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 1: lied to it. And I found out actually because I

277
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: have three uncles. My uncle Butch died when I was

278
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,479
Speaker 1: a preteen. My uncle Randall died during COVID. He passed

279
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 1: of complications with COVID. So my last uncle Mark, he

280
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 1: and I were going up state to collect his brother's things,

281
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: and I said to him, I was like, you know,

282
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 1: why is it that you know these things happened to

283
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 1: our family? You know, COVID cancer. He's like, oh, who

284
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 1: passed of cancer? Like Butch? Right? Like like Butch passed

285
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,840
Speaker 1: of cancer? And he's like, he didn't pass up cancer,

286
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 1: he had HIV. Who told you that? Wow? Right, So

287
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with having just lost an uncle a few

288
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 1: days before being in COVID, and now not only do

289
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 1: I have a reckoning of this lie in my family.

290
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,120
Speaker 1: But now I have to reckon with homophobia and my

291
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 1: family and unpacking it and just a devastating impact that

292
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 1: had generationally on my family, and how not navigating those

293
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 1: waters built systemic cultural, generational homophobia in my family that

294
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: has led you know, me and many instances to separate

295
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: from members of my family. To this day, I relate

296
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: to this so so much, and that you know, the

297
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: stories are family tell to protect us from each other

298
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 1: and from the world. Really, that we have to sell

299
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 1: these certain versions of truth to better rationalize why something

300
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 1: happened to someone or how they aren't in the world

301
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 1: and why they aren't in the world. And what I

302
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 1: really want to ask you about is like this idea

303
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: of lying. You know, I carried with me for many

304
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 1: years as a black gay guy that my family lied

305
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 1: to me by not telling me that my uncle died

306
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: from HIV he was gay, and I had a lot

307
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: of resentment, But lately I don't because I understand why,

308
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 1: being in like a more rural southern place, why they

309
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 1: couldn't say that word. So do you in your own story,

310
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 1: in your own family, is calling it a lie even

311
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 1: useful to say? Because it sounds like they were just

312
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,240
Speaker 1: trying to survive in this world. I think that calling

313
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 1: it a lie is useful because I believe in what

314
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 1: I call radical accountability. Right. But I'm also a restorative

315
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: justice type of person. But you can't have restorative justice

316
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 1: without radical accountability. And radical accountability doesn't have to be punitive, right,

317
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: Radical accountability can simply be stepping towards healing for both

318
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 1: victims and abusers at times. Right. So we don't come

319
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 1: from a people you me black people globally, Brown people globally,

320
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 1: We don't come from cultures before colonialism that were ingrained

321
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,919
Speaker 1: with such staunch homophobia or transphobia. History shows that, right,

322
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 1: Actual research shows that it was capitalism and white patriarchal

323
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 1: constructs that did this. That's not lost to me, but

324
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 1: you have to call it out. And the reality is

325
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 1: as a sist head black man, what I also dealt

326
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: with as a kid, which played in part, I think

327
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,679
Speaker 1: into this lie, was because I was molested. I was

328
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: never the kid who was like I really like girls,

329
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm really into girls. That wasn't me. I was very

330
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: like inwardly focused or I just wanted to hang out

331
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: with boys, and I was afraid of girls. So they

332
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,879
Speaker 1: were like in my family until I was probably sixteen,

333
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,639
Speaker 1: there were rumors, oh, he must be gay. So I

334
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 1: think that they did everything in their power to quote

335
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 1: unquote make sure I wasn't gay, and then problem medically,

336
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 1: in toxically, I counteracted that by being you know, if

337
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 1: heteronormativity exists on a spectrum of positive and toxic, I

338
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,119
Speaker 1: went as toxic as possible, because that's typically equated with being, like,

339
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, in our society, as manly as possible. Right,

340
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 1: So I went that direction, and you're like, Okay, he's

341
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: a womanizer. No, he's good, right, Like so yeah, so

342
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: that lie actually built the castle of all of my

343
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 1: pain and trauma and the traumas in pain that I

344
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 1: inflicted on a ton of other people. I love that

345
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: you're talking about, Like, I love this kind of complicated

346
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 1: conversation about misogyny. For instance, that you know, due to

347
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 1: the own pain and violence you felt in your own life,

348
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: you overcompensate it by hurting other people. It's I think,

349
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,480
Speaker 1: you know, my angel LUs says, hurt people, hurt people,

350
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: and that's like the truest thing in the world, which

351
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 1: makes me think a lot about I think about that

352
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 1: and then this idea of radical accountability, and it makes

353
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 1: me think about little Boosey and the baby and little

354
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 1: nos X. So let's use that as an example for folks.

355
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: How does radical acountability operate there? And how are you

356
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: seeing her people hurting people in that situation? Because that's

357
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 1: what I see? Who boy, you know, I have psychoanalyze

358
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 1: these men so many times to myself or in my household, right, like,

359
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: like what happened to them in their lives that might

360
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 1: have been similar. There's certain things that happened to me

361
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: potentially that they did not have the privilege of overcoming

362
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: or navigating, right, or maybe nothing happened. They were just

363
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 1: black men in the South, and you know, capitalism rewards

364
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity and misogyny. But you know, with the three

365
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: of them, I've been hurt. And I'm going to also

366
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: add Dave Chappelle to that because I have been hurt

367
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 1: by the things that I've seen from them as a

368
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 1: fellow black man. Because what they don't realize, especially in

369
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: them saying that they want to protect children and be

370
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: pro black, is that what they're doing is actually anything.

371
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: But they're actually harming children and they are further degradating

372
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: the black community, right, So it not only breaks my

373
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: heart art, but it is the complete contradiction of all

374
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: the work that I'm trying to do. And then because

375
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 1: of their platforms versus let's say, my platform, it makes

376
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 1: that work that much harder. Yeah, I'm gonna be really

377
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,360
Speaker 1: honest with you, Zach. I wrote about Dave Chappelle years ago,

378
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: So to see him doubling down, I actually started crying.

379
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: I was in the shower just like tearing up because

380
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: I looked up to him growing up, like he was

381
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: actually like a hero of mine, because I always said

382
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 1: that he was punching up against white supremacy and classism

383
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: in many ways. So then he's started becoming more famous

384
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: and more wealthy, started punching laterally, and now he's just

385
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: punching down at the most like oppressed community in the world, right,

386
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: black and brown trans people and specifically black and brown

387
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 1: trans women. So with that being said, the thing that

388
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: hurt the most though, is that there are these moments

389
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: of potential reclamation, as you said, or radical accountability where

390
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: people have not said, hey, we want to cancel you, Dave. Literally,

391
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: I have watched trans activists, trans organizations say hey, can

392
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: we sit down and like explain to you what you

393
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 1: were doing because you're such a powerful voice, and we

394
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: know that you are such an intelligent, brilliant, brilliant person

395
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: when it comes to storytelling, when it comes to getting

396
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: into hearts and minds of people, and you would be

397
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 1: a monstrous, devastatingly powerful being to be on the right

398
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: side of things. And Dave, instead of leaning into that,

399
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: has leaned completely out of it. And that hurts. Yeah,

400
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: And when you see people doing the wrong thing and

401
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: they don't have to, it hurts so so much because

402
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, you don't have to do this. You

403
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: don't have to make that decision at all. And that's

404
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: what's so frustrating with like the Dave Chappelle's and the baby.

405
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: But I want to bring it back to you because

406
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: I think you have an example in your life right

407
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 1: now where maybe people are doing the right thing. And

408
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: that's with the cousin of yours, correct who is HIV positive.

409
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: Talk to me about this person and kind of how

410
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: his experience may be very different than what your uncle

411
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,719
Speaker 1: went through. So I actually have two cousins who are

412
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: HIV positive and their experiences are completely different as a

413
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,719
Speaker 1: matter of fact. So one of my cousins opened up

414
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: to the family that she's HIV positive in the early

415
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: two thousands, and there was still this moment of pure ignorance.

416
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: But I think that at times where people don't realize

417
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: is that a lot of black people all we have

418
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: is our family. And I don't mean that hyperbolically. I

419
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: mean like, quite literally, for a lot of black people,

420
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: we have is our family, and in that family we

421
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: find hope. So in spite of all of the viatrol

422
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: she was receiving for having HIV, you know, she just

423
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: kind of took it. Versus my cousin, who is a

424
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: bit younger than me, he is just a brilliant, brilliant

425
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: young man. He's just like, you know what, you can't

426
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 1: possibly love me in the ways in which I need

427
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: to be loved. So I'm going to step away from

428
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: all of you and only talk to those of you

429
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: who can love me for me and like the things

430
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm going through. He's like, in spite of what happened

431
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: for uncle, I'm gay and I did get HIV practicing sex.

432
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: He's like, and that's not your business, right, that is

433
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: my business. You're either going to support me or you're not.

434
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: And what that forced our family to do was this

435
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: moment of radical accountability. Do you lose your cousin, do

436
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: you lose your nephew, do you lose your son? Or

437
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 1: do you love them enough to break the walls down

438
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: of your ignorance? You have to choose did you ever

439
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: truly love this person or was it all a facade

440
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: within the constructs of what makes you comfortable? Yeah? Wow,

441
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: wow wow wow? Did you ever pose that to them?

442
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: Did you ever say those words to them? So I

443
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: said all those words. I literally like convened everybody at

444
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: my house and I was like, this is it. And

445
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: if he feels like he has to walk away, I'm

446
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: walking away because what we don't want to do, Like

447
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: I very much preach from the book of accomplices and

448
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: co conspirators versus allies. Right, an allies somebody who wants

449
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: the world to better, or an accomplice and conspirator, they're

450
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: in the trenches. So if I want the world to

451
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: be better for the LGBTQ plus community, I gotta make

452
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: myself uncomfortable, right, And that for me means like, oh, hey, Darren,

453
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that this has happened. No, no, forget that.

454
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: If Darren steps away, I'm stepping away. This Darren's not

455
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: by himself. So that's exactly what happened. I want to

456
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: talk to you about all this work you do to

457
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: give back, and like, something I read about recently was

458
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: you sending a lot of kids? I think Sissy Black Panther, Yeah,

459
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: a few years ago. So like, tell me about that story,

460
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: and like, why is it that like love and joy

461
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it seems to be

462
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: your driving kind of motive here. I actually have the

463
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: word love tattooed on my back. And that's a funny story.

464
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: When my grandmother was passing, she told my cousins and

465
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: I like all of us, what, like the one thing

466
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: we need to focus on was when she was going,

467
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: when she was in hospice, and for me, it was love.

468
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you mean. She's like, you know,

469
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: you give a lot of love, but you'll really be

470
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: able to love when you let people love you. And

471
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: in all my pain, you're talking about being a black

472
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: kid in the eighties nineties, without a father, growing up

473
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: up in poverty. My family's decimated by the crack epidemic,

474
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: decimated by the heroine epidemic. My mother had me at eighteen.

475
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: I've been molested by my babysitter. I've watched you know

476
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: how life works in an over police neighborhood. I didn't

477
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: have a lot of trust in being loved, right, And

478
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: when I started receiving love, allowing myself to receive love,

479
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, this change is everything. And what I

480
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: want for people is for people who I don't even

481
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: know to receive love. Right, If a stranger can do

482
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: something for you, it doesn't just have to be like, Hey,

483
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: if a kid lives in poverty, let's give them pencils

484
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: and book bags and stuff to have the baseline fundamental things.

485
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: If I can also say, like I want you to

486
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: enjoy your life, that could be a game changer. Right,

487
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: Like this person I didn't know at all wanted me

488
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: to enjoy my life and loved me despite not even

489
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: knowing me. And that's kind of like where all my

490
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: philanthropy comes from. Loving people radically even if you don't

491
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: know them, right, Just having a love for society and mankind,

492
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: loving people enough to love themselves. How has that changed

493
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: how you move through the world. Having that radical love

494
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: for just strangers. Do you see yourself walking down the

495
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: street differently these days? You know, it's interesting because I

496
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: think that like both things are juxtaposed, right, the radical

497
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: love and the radical accountability. You know, So if you

498
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: do something, for example, that's like oppressive, racist, homophobic, whatever

499
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: it is, I'm gonna hold you accountable. And it's through

500
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 1: that accountability, like in my opinion, like you know where

501
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: I grew up. You know, people just get punched in

502
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: your face with some nonsense, right, So yes, so if

503
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: I hold you accountable through like systems of being like, hey,

504
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: like you did this wrong, here's the consequence for doing

505
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: this wrong. Now, Also, you're still here, right, You're still

506
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: with us, And a lot of black people, a lot

507
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: of people who are trans especially don't get the privilege

508
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: of growth because they're not still here with us. So

509
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: you still being here is even a privilege within our system.

510
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: So now that you are still here, you've been held accountable.

511
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: Now how are you going to grow? And what are

512
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: you going to do with the rest of your time?

513
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: So that period is where the radical love comes in.

514
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: I can bonk you on your head with the accountability,

515
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: and then I can like hand you the olive branch

516
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: of love and be like you know, these two things

517
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: combined will help you change the world. I love that.

518
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: I love that. So before let you go, I want

519
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: to see if you'd be up forgiving, you know, the

520
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: audience of advice, because I think our audience is very

521
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: much people like us and people that like are in

522
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: our community, but are definitely not having these conversations all

523
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 1: the time, which is a big part of this and

524
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: something you said earlier about you know, like trusting and

525
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: letting other people love you is a big part of

526
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: loving others. What advice you have for folks listening on

527
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: the best way for them to begin that trust fall

528
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: for love? M I would say that the advice is

529
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: to unpack the realities of your trauma. Right I think

530
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: that all of us living in these constructs, I don't

531
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: really I don't care what aspect of it you live in, right, Like,

532
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: whether it's ableism, capitalism, or whatever is m it is,

533
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: or obia, whatever whatever it is, you are traumatized and

534
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: trauma is the direct adversary of love. So as you

535
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: are unpacking, unlearning, thinking about the traumas that you not

536
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: only have faced, but the traumas of just being in

537
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: your body when you step out of your home, or

538
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: when you go on Instagram, when you go on Twitter,

539
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: or when you see the news. Unpacking that and taking

540
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: it out of your suitcase allows you to put love

541
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: in that suitcase. You know what I'm saying. And that's

542
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: been an important work for me. And that's why I

543
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: tell everybody go to therapy, because that's where you do

544
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: a lot of that unpacking, Like, hey, take some of

545
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: this out right, like and patriarch people. That said to

546
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: my babysitter who lest me, I wrote her a letter

547
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: and I told her, I wrote, I'm writing this letter

548
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: so that I can let my fiance in more right.

549
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: I literally said that to her. I'm like this because

550
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: you don't own me, so I'm releasing you of this

551
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: space that you think that you occupy. I am not confined.

552
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: You were not confined. We are not confined to this

553
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: moment in time because I'm building other moments. But I

554
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: can't build those moments unless I make room for them.

555
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: I love that. I'm going to take that with me forever.

556
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: I think that was like a an aha, thank you

557
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: for that. And you know a lot of what you're

558
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: saying right there, and what makes that possible is due

559
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: to another thing you said is that we are all

560
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: still here in your alife and you can make a

561
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: lot of choice is moving forward. So Frederick, thank you

562
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: so much for being here today. This has been an incredible,

563
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: incredible pleasure. You are just brilliant. I knew it was

564
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: going to be brilliant, and it was brilliant. So thank

565
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: you for showing up for this. Zach, I really appreciate

566
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: you taking the time and making the space. This has

567
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: been phenomenal and this is it's just been something for

568
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: me going into the holiday season over the next few

569
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: months that I'm just gonna it's gonna make my heart full.

570
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: So thank you. Our lives are collection of stories, some

571
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: that we tell often, some that we still learning in,

572
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: others that stay hidden for good reason. But as Frederick

573
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: shows us, we are the narrator of our lives, and

574
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: no matter what chapter you are on today, you still

575
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: have the power to control the unwritten. All right, until

576
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: next time, remember to breathe, stay hydrated. But I'm positive

577
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: we can all live a healthier and happier life. This

578
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: has been in the deep stories that shape us. Find

579
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: this episode in others on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts,

580
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget to share,

581
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: rate and review if you enjoyed this conversation. The show

582
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: is produced by Ivan Chien and mastered by James Foster.

583
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: Our show researcher is John in Raggio and our writer

584
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: is Yvette Lopez. A special shout out to our guest

585
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: Fredrick Joseph. I'm your host, Zach Stafford. Hi, my name

586
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: is Ramon and I was really scared to get tested

587
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: for HIV, but I knew I had to do it.

588
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: So I found out my status and you know what,

589
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: I also learned from a doctor that HIV is not

590
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: a death sentence. There are medications available to treat HIV

591
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: and options to prevent it. So my advice, if you

592
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: haven't done so, get tested, know your status and press

593
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: play on What's next. Learn more at nomstatus dot com